Ukraine, Russia, and the Future of the Liberal Order - Hagel lecture series
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 เม.ย. 2023
- A Conversation with Ambassador Michael McFaul and Secretary Chuck Hagel
Streamed: Fri, Mar 24 from 5:00 - 7:00pm CDT
This is the third lecture of our annual Hagel lecture series, a forum to amplify and encourage greater civic participation in critical discussions. Chuck Hagel, the 24th U.S. Secretary of Defense, and keynote speaker Michael McFaul, former Ambassador to Russia, discussed the current situation in Ukraine, economic sanctions on Russia, the impact on the war in Europe, and the future of NATO. The event was hosted by the Chicago Project on Security and Threats (CPOST) at the University of Chicago on March 24, 2023, and was moderated by CPOST Director, Prof. Robert Pape.
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We need a MULTIPOLAR world.
Where is John Mearsheimer?
Museum
John Meirsheimer is one of the only fair opinionist not this Misguided intertwines.
They do not want him in... he would be contradicting their views and optimism with facts and logic
I think it is very funny. They talk a lot and they agree on everything. There is no debate.
Yes. There is one of main points: "Putin can not win."
However, what is considered to be a victory?
..
There is a problem of anti-Russian education in Ukraine, the lack of equal rights (between the citizens of Ukraine).
..
There was a problem of the lack of security for the population of Donetzk and Lugansk.
..
Putin wanted to solve these problems - in a wrong way.
..
However, if the West helps Ukraine to win - not solving these problems - that will not lead to a stable peace.
Such "debates" are simply food for sheep
@@hakunamakaka8616 No, it's just a discussion between people who already agree about major issues.
@@FILOZOFUS87 That's absurd. Putin created security problems in Donbas.
And I agree with what you wrote,🤣🤣🤣 Their idea is not to debate but to help propagate whatever Pentagon wants them to be propagate. Their book project is most likely financed by the US military.
@19:26 Thou wilt not annex the territory of thy neighbor.... unless that neighbor is our friend--see the case of Israel and the Golan Heights.
Or Turkey.
One must be very clear about the words one uses.
It must be emphasized that the US has not been founded on the Principle of Annexation. Neither in the invasions on the mainland or on the invasions to acquire foreign territories and 800 military bases which project dominance to all corners of the globe. All the Annexation done, has been with the consent of the annexed.
Where UChicago prof Mearsheimer? McFowl prob too scared to debate him.
What is liberal about the liberal order?
As much as what's new in neoliberalism. 😂
@@michstockholm1164 😂 good one, haven’t heard that one before 😂
your children will not be in re-education camps like the Uyghurs, or running around in military uniforms in kindergartens like the Russians. Although if you are a masochist or you like eternal war and raising your son like a cow for slaughter, then Russia is your choice.
how they liberally screw us all
Mind Begs the Question:
If deploying Weapons,Troops
In USA backyard (Cuba) - not Allowed
In Russia,China backyard (Ukraine,Taiwan) - Allowed
Democracy,Imperialism?
It's the old adage of "it's ok when we do it" the top dog at any time tends to have its fingers in too many pies, then they get burnt.
who said is not allowed? imperialist say its not allowed, U.S. treats Cuba with imperialism, everyone knows that, every year the U.N. votes comdemning it, and almost everyone votes against the U.S. Luckly things been changing, Nicaragua invited Russian troops to rile up the U.S. and they didnt care, they care though about Solomon Islands getting cozy with the CCP, but have you seen anyone talking about invasion? except the same people who wish to abandon Ukraine so that the U.S. does not look hypocritical when they invade Mexico?
OMG. Is this really the best you've got?
... addressed to the neo-cons, this is a translation of a french proverb : who sows the wind, will reaps the storm...
I lived 3 years in UKraine
5 millions of Ukrainians refugees are in Russia you dont know this
Ukraine is not at all a democracy...And you are not the free world
USA made worse 2003 invading Irak with Ukraine in the coalition
USA violated its oath made by James Baker to Gorbatchev promising not to advance East Nato
USA is just lying and has provoked this war as usually for a country having only 20 years of peace in 244 years of existence
Zelensky it is proved by Pandora Papers for his major part of his revenues in Ukraine were not declared his country he is a tax--frauder With the dollar dominance of the world is coming to and end, your vassals will run away from you will remain in shorts alone
In Ukraine it was the Russians who sowed the wind and are reaping the category 5 hurricane.
@@Mikey-ve6ni oh oh, again someone who didn't understand yet...wake up.
@@yvonbonnemaison8039 wake up to the fact that the French surrendered to German nazis, but Ukrainians are fighting to death against the Russian nazis.
@@Mikey-ve6ni It is the US and Europe who will get destroyed in process.
Mr McFaul did you ply piano with Zelensky?
Starts at 13:45 if you want to skip the introductions. Although, there's really nothing new to learn in the discussion.
Take a drink every time you hear "Chicago".
i would like this discussion to start over since the pentagon leaks.
🤣🤣🤣
Neocon staring at US fading is priceless. No oil, no raw materials, no grain, no printer. Great results Sirs! Good luck
I listened to it, all through and must say I wasted time on such emptiness. They said nothing of importance, sat there and joked and laughed and said zero. So yes, they have nothing to say since they are confronting a totally new situation, that none of these types expected. And don't know how to handle
@@svenhanson398 My guts were rignt, then! Thanks for the heads up! I like Walter Russel Mead ... though a Straussian he is not a neocon. In these fields we're not expert the most diverging opinions we get, the best.
@@maxheadrom3088 His lecture with all the songs was an interesting way of presenting his ideas. I see him more like a academic of history of ideas. I prefer down to earth facts of actual incidents and the possible reasons behind them. And their repercussions. And yes, I personally like to hear all kinds of opinions, even going as far the ones I dislike. But they got to be rooted in reality and have facts to the bones
McFaul was thrown out of Russia because he acted like a cowboy and not like an ambassador. He is prohibited to enter Russia by the Russian Ministry of foreign affairs.
Sums up their vacuous idealogy... Have no illusions though; these vampires will fight to the last drop of everyone else's blood to hold on to power.
What an arrogant world, covered in egos
Good awareness. But I believe Prof John Mearsheimer's analysis of Liberal order, Ukraine, and Russia is by far the most comprehensive, fair, and logical I have encountered. Why didn't you have him on the show?
Your Russian accent if still quite thick; I have recommendation for you, a reliable speech therapist ... the only issue is that she's in New York, and you're in Russia.
Good luck at the front, Ivan. The mobilization will commence in a few months.
It is much more comfortable not to have an actual opponent. God forbit if you really have someone to argue with.
@@dinarap6610 I doubt they can read the English language. They just post whatever the FSB tell them to post.
@@dinarap6610 Mearsheimer's actual recommendations for the current conflict are hardly distinguishable from the current US administration's actions to date. Mearsheimer argues pre-war actions by US caused war. Whatev, but today is today. Any realist would know, you deal with the world you've got. I suggest looking for Mearsheimer interviews post Feb. 24 2022, you will find his recommendations are: Destroy Russian forces in the field, retake all coastal lands occupied since Feb 2022, and destroy Crimean land bridge (makes Russian long term status in Crimea very, very expensive), Then, and only then sign a peace treaty. Please check me on that and get back to me.
Because he will bring up NATO's eastward expansion and have everyone squirming.
They'd left the 'stage' after thanking each other and else ones, so nobody would have wasted their time. Such a big disappointment! Isn't Mr. J.Mearsheimer from that University too, by the way? Where is he?
The challenge is for the so-called "democratic states" not becoming oligarchies or controlled by big corporations such as the military industrial complex.
How long will we allow corporations to decide tax rates, and maneuver to protect themselves from any responsibility for climactic events in ways that totally prevent us from making any progress on a survival-level issue and corrupt the democratic process? We must again care for the group as much as the individual. As much. Compromise is noble.
Who are oligarch, the rich industrialists who donate politicians so that they can pave way for them to profit of govt contracts and get clearance for their industry. The way western countries make fun of Russian oligarch makes me wonder what differs their wealthy industrialists from Russian oligarch class.
I lived 3 years in UKraine
5 millions of Ukrainians refugees are in Russia you dont know this
Ukraine is not at all a democracy...And you are not the free world
USA made worse 2003 invading Irak with Ukraine in the coalition
USA violated its oath made by James Baker to Gorbatchev promising not to advance East Nato
USA is just lying and has provoked this war as usually for a country having only 20 years of peace in 244 years of existence
Zelensky it is proved by Pandora Papers for his major part of his revenues in Ukraine were not declared his country he is a tax--frauder With the dollar dominance of the world is coming to and end, your vassals will run away from you will remain in shorts alone
Each of the people sitting on that stage is vomiting Western propaganda to prop up their masters (Western corporations). The lowest humans can get is neocon and their vassals.
@@yam2050 except Russian oligarchs are under the control of Putin and his lieutenants.
Our elites make me nervous.
Ay
I agree, but what was he trying to get at? Anything in particular? Is he referring to Biden?
14 initial minutes were the longest flustercluck introduction to the real meat of sizzling lies.
I was about to eat my own eyeballs, just to feel alive. Smug experts unable to contemplate that they may be wrong are tedious
Then once they got into the subjects of interest, they failed to undertake any analysis. Simple repetition of state provided talking points. What hope do the students of these intellectual sell outs have?
@@r4ybc Noticed the same, pretty impressive the emptiness
Like what? What lies did you find?
Look at these fine young men, deciding the future for us old people 💜
Joe, is that you?
They lie to you fools 😂
Why the anti Trump stuff? Biden wanted Zel to run. Trump wanted NATO to step up to the 2% goal.
@@jamessalamon9449 Trump was never a serious Candidate, merely a Poster Boy for Mercer Marketing methods....
@@jamessalamon9449 trumps OWN National Security Advisor said he was going to break up NATO in the 2nd term. And let Putin March right in.
This really reminds me of the 1998 Town Hall meeting at The Ohio State University with then Secretary of State Madeleine Albright (still available on TH-cam), in which the students were questioning/challenging the US justification of invading Iraq and Madeleine Albright branded those students as Saddam sympathizers. It's interesting that no one seems to be remember (or bring up) America's invasion of Iraq during this conversation of "Putin's imperial ambitions in Ukraine." Kudos to the student who brought up the West derailing peace talks to keep the war going. It's well documented/reported in Israeli and Indian media that 3 months into the conflict Israel's then Prime Minister Bennett tried to help negotiate peace between Putin and Zelensky (and both parties were ready to compromise) but Boris Johnson derailed the process, and Bennett thought that was wrong. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin also publicly stated (subsequently repeated by numerous US military generals) that the aim of the conflict is to isolate/weaken/cripple Russia, and that it's a great deal for the US since it's only costing us money but not lives.
"Boris Johnson derailed the process"
Correct, plent of evidence that was the case!
Какие могут быть компромиссы ? В наш дом пришли варвары, разрушили, убили, захватили. какой может быть компромисс с теми кто желает стереть нас с лица земли ? Лучший компромисс, что бы Россия вернулась к себе домой. А военные преступники были наказаны. Это будет честно. Любые компромиссы с маньяком будут поощрять его к новым злодеяниям.
Bennett met with Putin in March 2022. "both parties were ready to compromise" on what points? So before Johnson "derailed the process" "3 months into the conflict" (May) there would seem to have been ample time for the parties to announce some kind of hopeful details about how the talks were going. Three months into the conflict it is more likely that Ukraine had found hope in its ability to repel parts of the invasion and Western pledges of arms. What seems consistent about this conflict is Russia, rather than cutting its losses, is hanging onto all it can of Ukraine and Ukraine seeking to take back as much as it can. The more recent calls for a cease-fire coincide with Russia again maxing out by taking what's left of Bakhmut and its awareness that Ukraine had the means for a counter-offensive. To me it seems Russia stirs up calls for a cease-fire in the attempt to conserve its gains.
... neo-cons hate both, Ukrainians and Russians, because both Slavs. But they are using Ukrainians because completely corrupt.
the sheer amount of cope is unreal to watch
"...USA taking sides in this war..." it's the primary driver since last 3 decades for agitating all these wars.
Except that this war has nothing to do with the US. It was an imperialistic invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Not the US. It is driven by Putin's imperialistic desires.
Manifestly untrue of Russia’s attempted annexation of Ukraine and the circa 80,000 war crimes Russia has committed.
Putin invaded Ukraine and he stole Ukrainian territory. It was his choice alone.
I wonder where most people at the Pentagon went to university to get a balanced view of the world?
Maybe NOT at the Trump-University for pathologically lying?
I wonder why experts with different points of view were not invited instead of two with almost identical points of view?
umm...because it's not a debate. Those are signified by the letters DEBATE prominently displayed. That should help, ask anytime!
They discuss the Russia problem for the US.
Douglas McGregor and Scott Ritter 💪💪💪
Scott Ritter is an idiot 🙄
CIA Ray McGovern 💪💪💪
Jeffrey Sachs 💪💪💪
Putin's Stonce on Ukraine
Jaffrey Sachs
💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪
It is curious: Not one word about the disastrous economic consequences facing Europe on account of the sanctions on Russia. The panel discussed possible adverse effects of the war for the US, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, but not one word about the strangulation of the European economy. (Henry Kissinger reportedly pontificated, "It is dangerous to be an enemy of the US; but being an ally may be fatal".)
Just ask the Kurds
McFaul was thrown out of Russia because he acted like a cowboy and not like an ambassador. He is prohibited to enter Russia by the Russian Ministry of foreign affairs.
Tell that to Ukrainians. Without US help they would be subjugated to russia already and war would be now in Balkans and Poland.
Did you really expect they would mention the disastrous economic consequence for Europe?
@@Brandespada What is it? This disastrous economic consequence? I'm in Europe. Did you believe your own propaganda that we are eating hamsters here? :)
If Russia
has to give back the annexed territory, dose this apply to Israel?
If Israel doesn’t does that mean that Russia shouldn’t? The predictable whataboutery & false equivalence …
Turkey still occupies top of the Syria land and nobody bother about it
Yes
The US should give California, Texas and Florida back to Mexico. If not, it should be sanctioned by all countries of the world.
Yes. Unequivocally yes. Imperialism of all forms is wrong. Which is why Europe should federalize so America is forced to face its own hypocrisy.
I am much more convinced by Mearsheimer's analyses.
Mearsheim has never served in any embassy nor has he served in any military office. Beware of academics with opinions founded on book-learning.
@@thinkerly1 “Beware of academics with opinions founded on book learning”. So you’re talking about McFaul who has zero military experience in contrast to Mearsheimer who graduated from West Point and was in the US Marines. Thx👍
Having the secretary of defense definitely wont give you neutrality here....
@@amandagorter1684 So what's your policy recommendation?
I wonder why the possibility of the war going nuclear was not raised?
Putin is cool.
Russian nukes must be as poor as russian army in Ukraine.
I wonder if Mearsheimer is in the audience as he's at Chicago as well. It would make an interesting discussion.
Watch - Munk Debate: Russia-Ukraine War
@@geoffwell oh really? are you professor too?
@@geoffwell Mearshimer was absolutely correct in 2015 about Ukraine. Video on this channel: Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer. this Michael McFoo worked with the Russian opposition in an absolutely unprofessional manner and for many years of his work in Russia did not lead to anything
@@efghggdxlmfn33 Nope, Mearsheimer was monumentally wrong. He didn't anticipate Putin's imperialism and in a way has fooled the west in Putin's service.
@@efghggdxlmfn33 Why does Russia invade its neighbours? Why does Russia steal land from other countries? It was Putins decision.
Can't believe people still listen to McFaul
A lot of open and frank comments, like bringing order in house, before preaching others. Good.
The dark side of such diskussions are the boring welcome speeches, one has to endure. Here the audience is even punished with 4 (four) of them! Dear CPOST, one is enough, even if it's about a diskussion with such high-ranking guests.
Just be glad your not on the front line.
This time around the discussion was so poor that even the welcome speeches were better.
This is what TH-cam is fir skip the boring part.
Boring to listen too, but important to hear where the financing comes from......
Outstanding presentation. Very well done. Everyone who loves democracy should watch this discussion.
I like democracy but not sham democracy.
Everyone who has a brain should question if he is told a truth.
Everything that you've learned: 'Make a lot of money, have a nice house'. But they never teach you at school how to relate, how to communicate with others, how to share values with others. ...They teach you how to make a living. You become an optometrist, he becomes a physicist, she becomes a structural engineer, he's an architect. In the future, none of that. Everybody is trained to be a generalist, so they understand different cultures, different values, how we get to be the way we are. So no-one can ever use you for war or killing anybody or hurting anybody.
learning how to live is important, cause if you don't live then you are dead, and nothing else matters
I didn’t quite catch the point you’re trying to make. Can you please elucidate?
If memory serves, once upon a time there was a Democratic President who called Russia a regional power and the 2014 Crimea annexation a regional war. What was his name again?
Barack Obama. Russia is still a regional power that doesn't threaten the US, and Ukraine is in the region of Russia and is a regional war. We can turn it into a global conflict instead of swiftly helping Ukraine win the war, but it doesn't change those facts that President Barack Obama pointed out. Also he's been out of office for 7 years.
What's your point, Stubby
Russia is not even a regional power as they expected to win against Ukraine in 10 days. Russia got in a stake mate and lost thousands of tanks and hundredtousand men at least.
@@TorianTammas Oh come on, Russia is a regional power, otherwise we wouldn't be helping Ukraine. There wouldn't be talk of European security and getting Ukraine in it. Finland wouldn't have joined NATO. It would be a story like Sudan right now.
a diplomat who says I'm not a soldier, I don't know the military field, but I think we shouldn't negotiate, we have to wage war. we need more weapons, more planes, etc. this is what the diplomacy of the Obama administration looked like. the same men are back with the same logic in the Biden administration how can a diplomat get out of such nonsense
Will it start?
Russia is stuck with $145 billions worth oil revenue in Indian rupee which is useless as things stand today, with the only option available being using it for "investments" in India. Only two days ago, for the first time, India paid Russia in Yuan for oil , which helps an enemy country's effort to make it a legitimate currency for international trade
“The less emphasis the Western media places on Bakhmut's strategic importance, the more important it is to Russia. Why would the Ukrainians fight so hard for it if it wasn't that important? It has devolved into a meat grinder, in their own words. If it wasn't that important, they could have given up and launched a counterattack to retake other more important Russian-occupied cities.” - Douglas Macgregor
Agreed on results of media myopathy on Bakhmut. However, perhaps Ukraine desires Russia to charge at this red cape that media and Ukrain command is waving at them. UA leadership wants Russians to fight in Bakhmut for domestic political reasons - UA command offers daily info and video from Bakhmut to raise profile an assure Russian focus - Russian focus permits Ukrainian actions behind the lines, and to destroy Wagners criminal corp (not people you want running around with weaponry in your country. tail wags the dog
They’re not fighting hard to defend Bakhmut. They’re fighting hard to slaughter Russian Nazis where it’s extremely convenient to do so, and it’s convenient to do so in Bakhmut because Bakhmut is easy to defend. That’s why the Russian Nazis have experienced such heavy losses trying and failing for over 9 months to take Bakhmut.
@@terjeoseberg990 For every 1 Russian soldier dead in Bakhmut there's 7 dead Ukrainian soldiers dead.. That is a meat grinder!
@@terjeoseberg990 “The Ukrainian army is Well-prepared and offers worthy resistance.” “Our task is not Bakhmut itself, but the destruction of the Ukrainian army and the reduction of its combat potential, which has an extremely positive effect on other areas, which is why this operation was dubbed the ‘Bakhmut meat grinder’.” - Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of Russia’s Wagner group.
@@terjeoseberg990 “Zelensky will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Let's give this man more lethal weapons, please. No American boots on the ground in Ukraine. It's a good investment, in my opinion, to continue our crucial support and our vital assistance to the Ukrainian soldiers so we can stop Putin's imperial ambitions and give Russia a strategic defeat in Ukraine.” - Sen. Lindsey Graham
Even the Roman Empire, which didn't have air bases and submarine bases all over the world, suffered from the deadly hubris.
McFaul was thrown out of Russia because he acted like a cowboy and not like an ambassador. He is prohibited to enter Russia by the Russian Ministry of foreign affairs.
Yes for 1500 years.
Christianity destroyed the Roman empire.
@@liveoak227 The Roman empire was Christian longer than it was pagan
hubris in Chinese is 狂妄自大 mad delusional arrogance.
One common thread of many analyst's is the dire necessity for Ukraine supporters to pour in the military hardware hard and heavy and NOW!
Anyone who starts a conversation with "American and the free world" in the same sentence cant be taken seriously.
Its kind of a conventional war from russian side and also proxy war from US/EU side. Also reminds of Afghanistan war from the 80s, when US tries to deplete russian resources from the outside
Unfortunately, the value of Russian Ruble has almost doubled since the war started. The sanctions have failed The world has decided to reduce trading in Dollars. The American hegemony on world resource’s is ending
@@pardeeptandon nobody is having fun economically, least russia, lol
@@planetcaravan2925: The longer the war goes Chinese are loving it. The free lunches Americans have gotten in the habit of having are ending.
Great lecture! USA giving weapon and ammunition to Ukraine is the best choice to make. Ukrainians will regain their teritory if get modern weapon
@@pawegalla-milewski8950 well yeah, hopefully that would put an end to this conflict soon, this is pointless at this stage
Well, everybody knows that it's a proxy war, and that if NATO(=USA) decides not to deliver weapons anymore, that than it would be over tomorrow. How the professor can say (answering a question) at about 1:24:00 that Mr Selensky "is not a vessel of the british empire" with a straight face is beyond me...B. Johnson did not represent the british Empire when he disrupted the negotiations from 2022, he represented NATO(=USA)...
For Ukraine it's a war of national survival. Either they are a sovereign country or are part of Putin's empire
He also didn't sabotage negotiations, the revelations of the Bucha and Izyum massacres as well as the subsequent denial from the Kremlin did. Additionally Russia was barely engaging in talks anyway.
People who have never traveled anywhere never lived anywhere never spoken with the real people anywhere are going to tell the rest of us what's what.
Enjoyed the diacussion and the insights, Thank you very much.
A more appropriate title for the discussion should have been “The Future of the American Global Hegemony.” The US global sway - that’s what is at stake. “Liberalism” is an ideological instrument, not the core of the system.
And would be no war in Ukraine today . God Bless America
!!!!
The end of the Cold War was terribly mismanaged and now we are reaping the poisonous harvest of it.
@@jel1050 Putin invaded Ukrained and lied to everyone about it. So who did it? Putin!
The west should celebrate and positively collaborate with this global awakening
Very poor debate. Was expecting the moderator to get more out of these high ranking officials. Looks to me more like a masquerade.
Meanwhile, the US$ is losing its strategic predominance on international trade. Many countries signing deals to bypass the $$$. The US dollar, once safe haven is now feared across the world b/c of abused US sanctions. In the long-run, how will the US finance its deficit? Beside quantitative easing?
Academia is complicit 😢😢
FURTENBURG, INC.
Supports you .. .. Let's go.
They describe the world which no longer exists. They just don't get it or they are dishonest. May be both. Anyway their academic competence is quite low. Just a neocon chat.
🤨 guess your a trump supporter too ?
@@Aussie-Mochayour a unserious person
McFaul is unbearably naive 😂
Naive? Lunatic
All 'experts on Russia' are good for nothing except propaganda
and he is the go-to person on Russia? Sad, he has little idea of what Russia and Putin are
@@mkorinets and what they are in short?
Obama's administration was absolutely fluke on Russia. They had no idea what they're dealing with.. Calling him naive is such understament
Fast forward 15 minutes to get past the introductions
We are the knight of free Realm fight for freedom and democracy God with us .Crusade againts evil East continue
None of these three people understand Russia: this is the biggest mistake of all!
Agreed. And actually Russia is not that complex to understand - it values fairness over 'freedom'. Its not 'cool', neither it wants to become cool but it wants to be partners with the 'cool' west. It has a lot of patience but when its gone - there is big trouble. Nobody notices the patience going away year by year but everybody see the trouble now.
Such a. shame. They didn't even invite an expert on a topic from Chicago University professor John Mearsheimer, who really understands the situation.
@@mkorinets in which way does it value fairness when it invades a sovereign country? if it wanted to be partners with the west it should've been a normal country and leave its imperial dreams in the past. Instead it just can't get over its imperial past.
@@JimSendre вы плохо понимаете значение слова "суверенный"
@@arl4456 Yes I know russia needs to learn what it means by Ukraine.
Is he really a professor?
Use the US tariff to exchange the relation between Russia and China?
I'm suspicious where he got his education.
He is an establishment propagandist. Very nicely rewarded for stirring up idiotic viewpoints and arguments to keep American population in a dream world of American exceptionalism.
No sane American would ever support any war waged without their brain being completely bombarded by propagandistic nonsense.
There was a disagreement in Russia. The Russian generals are not stupid. They knew exactly that with 150000 troops they have no chance. They learned from the previous 8 years and the other wars. It was the political elite and the KGB circles that blinded the final decision makers. Like in former socialist time or the Germans in the second world war. If politician would listen more carefully to the military professionals, then a lot of mistakes could be avoided...
You know an analysis is bad when the people who does the analysis assumes the other side is stupid. You know the analysis is good when you understand why they do what they do. You know the analysis is great when you realize that you'd do the same thing if you were in their shoes. As such, this panel kind of sucks.
KGB? Hm... How old are you?
Wrong. The orcs arrogantly did believe they could conquer Ukraine with only 150K. They believed their own propaganda that they would be greeted with cheers and flowers. Getting beaten back when they tried to encircle Kyiv was a shock to them. They vastly underestimated Ukrainian's resolve.
@@swaguelclemens9164
Yes ! Ex KGB
That’s who is currently running Russia.
@@SteffiReitsch Would you have done it differently? Before going into an attrition war, wouldn't you try to force a negotiation first? If negotiation succeeded then it would end the conflict with minimal loss to both side. And it was really Ukraine's only chance. Since the 2014 coupe Ukraine has been under US influence, Z actually had an excuse to say no to the US, and he almost did. Now he is stuck, because US support has a limit. As soon as Biden steps down, Repubs will limit support as they prefers to fight the Chinese, which would cement a Russian victory.
This is just a basic analysis from me, but it's pretty obviously true just by simply stepping into different shoes. I don't understand where all these wacky views like yours come from.
last countrys they helped becoming thriving democracies were Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan...and the list goes on. Looks like ucraine will be a great success.
Don't forget vietnam
You love joke
Except for the fact that the US doesn't have any troops in Ukraine. This is a battle between Russia and Ukraine. Maybe you forgot that.
@@johnforde7735 US has nothing to do with it...they make a lot of money, but other than that they are innocent like a child :-))
Thats why they tell us 3 times a day . This unprovoked, unprovoked, unprovoked war:-))
Ask V. Nuland.....
Don't worry about us, after the expulsion of the Russian occupiers, we will manage ourselves. The USA did not bomb Mariupol nor did war crimes in our territory. So let without "whataboutism" please.
The biggest farce of our time - 'I don't need a ride, I need ammo'😂
"Putin will take kiev in 72hours" 😂
Gangster Zelensky 😂
“The Ukrainians are Really tough. The Russians are Really tough. And NATO (the Collective West and the European Union) is Really filthy Rich. That's all the ingredients you need for an Endless war in Europe.” - Brian Eno
russians are not tough, they just send more men to die in Ukraine but that is not infinite and there's increasing instability in russia itself. There wont be an endless war, it will be over by September with a russian withdrawal. Guaranteed!
Both Ukraine and Russia are fighting for their lives. It has been a wonderful war for the US. Trillions of profits and few dead soldiers. A war made in heaven.
They are "RICH" because their central banks PRINT money to pay out their way out of immense DEBT.
Exactly
But the US has weak and fickle politics.
I was really patient and the first 20 minutes were dedicated to self congratulations and thanking each other. That was followed by lies and propaganda.
You never took part in such an event. So they do it not like you expected to. Oh they dared to think for themselves and not ask for your opinion.
There is one of main points: "Putin can not win."
However, what is considered to be a victory?
..
There is a problem of anti-Russian education in Ukraine, the lack of equal rights (between the citizens of Ukraine).
..
There was a problem of the lack of security for the population of Donetzk and Lugansk.
..
Putin wanted to solve these problems - in a wrong way.
..
However, if the West helps Ukraine to win - not solving these problems - that will not lead to a stable peace.
How in the world can the University of Chicago put on a lecture like this, with these speakers and not invite their own John Mearsheimer? It's practically an insult and I don't think it's accidental. He'd make the other speakers very uncomfortable.
Great comment👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
totally agree !
Probably because John Mearsheimer's theory has been debunked and is embarrassing.
@@johnforde7735 by whom? he is a professor? what a nonsense!
@@Maria_Makr Timothy Snyder for a start.
The biggest mistake of the United States is that they perceived the collapse of the USSR as their victory, although in fact the collapse was for internal reasons. Russia has never admitted to being defeated. Russia offered peace in 1991, but the US took it as a defeat and began to treat Russia like a spoils of war.
Another mistake follows from this mistake: the US is trying to destroy Russia as the USSR. But in today's Russia there are NO such internal problems as there were in the USSR. Today's Russia is a rising superpower with a lot of passion and ambition. While the peak of US greatness ended in the early 2000s. The US is now a fading superpower.
in what sense is russia a rising superpower…?! rife with corruption, no innovation, staggering poverty outside the major cities
So you visited Russia, then looked down at your friend's iPhone, sent emails over the US developed internet, lusted after a Tesla, looked up at the Boeing flying above your head and decided that Russia is rising and US fading away? Um, ok, if that works for you
quiet bot
@@happyhappynuts this is your subjective comparison, the truth is that Russia can severely weaken Europe because it has the resources Europe needs and that's the reality. If Europe is weakened, that will be significant consequences for the USA led world order. And USA is doing a pretty good job helping Russia weakening Europe instead of encouraging Russia and Ukraine to negotiate. At the end of the day, it's about who holds the resources and who doesn't, that matters. Not democracy or autocracy, if you don't have resources, no matter how democratic you are, your living state would be miserable.
Stopped reading at Russia is a rising superpower. What cave do you live in?
We got a lot of refugees coming in usa. We face a lot problems but still getting more peoples coming into usa I think we are should looking for peace not war every year now on future.
Civilian casualties on all sides? What does this mean?
Also paid attention - I heard that one or more people were accidentally killed near Belgorod, but this is not compared to tens of thousands of victims in Ukraine.
No John Mearsheimer? On this panel? It’s his own School 😅
There is a debate with Mearsheimer and McFaul.
15 минут только хвалят друг друга, можно промотать.
tak tochno 😂
1ч 51 минут хвалят друг друга...
"Bo general to overthrow him" have changed a little in the resent time.
Is it me or are there lots of chines options in the first little bit. Is that planed or not.
Thank you for this lecture series
This message of lies and half truth postulations has been brought to you by the Military Industrial Complex.
TH-cam highly recommends this video to me throughout the week. And here I finally am, what did you Americans want to show me here?
Are you not brainwashed yet? Ok another video is coming and this time there'll make sure you believe.. 😁
@@mthimkhulu30 whataya talking about?
I wanna count how many times these guys say more, mote, more when talking about sending weapons.
LOL At the pro-Russia question from the dude hiding his face behind the mask 1:24:33
And didn't McFaul flatten that troll with his answer!
@@dhschneider7945 No, he didn’t
@@dhschneider7945 It was Ukrainian intelligence that leaked this data. everything could have ended then.
The giggling guy is the president of the university of Chicago, added unique value to the debate!
Self congratulating debate!
It's not a debate. It's a discussion.
Ah.. hence they all agree with eachother...
@@marybardmess7953 It was an utter embarrassment, they said nothing, no analysis, no facts, nothing, sitting there laughing as if it was a fun subject.
I tend to use the Chicago Style Manual. But am now rethinking the issue.
How Long does it take
to vacate an average-sized middle-aged audience ?
I would like to see these old men personally suffer long lasting physical, emotional, spiritual,, mental and social harm from this war they are attempting to secure.
Many of the points are made correctly here, thank you for that. In popular opinion though this war often comes down to money and spending and my answer would be - this war could have already ended given the necessary military support (long range missiles etc.). The longer it takes the more expensive it will get. I'm from Lithuania and i've been watching this war closely, listening to Ukrainian reviews every day. I think many Americans have no idea about the level of Ukrainian resolve and, very importantly, about their high ethics during this war (e.g. treating Russian prisoners of war in accordance with UN standards, despite Russians torturing and killing Ukrainian prisoners and population in the most cruel way. So trust me, Ukraine deserves every cent we in the West spend and it deserves victory from every moral point of view. And the sooner they win the less costly it will be.
Thanks Lithuania for support♥️
@@liudmylab2328 Thank you. Ukraine is beautiful.
Basically you said this: “I’ve been reading Ukrainian sources daily. And I see how good Ukrainians are and how bad Russians are”. Amazing logic.
Watch both sides objectivly and you will see how brainwashed you have been.
However, we cannot ignore the phone conversation between Nuland and Pyatt indicating USA involvement in regime change in the Ukraine in 2014. For some reason this is often ignored. I would love to see an active analysis by these people of the consequences of that US involvement in regime change and the civil war in Ukraine that came after. I think that if I were a student at Standford I would love to ask Michael this question.
These people are not analyzers, they are propagandists.
dude, I'm from Ukraine and I was on the Maidan. You believe in the conspiracy theory - there was no coup and civil war. No one asked this question because intelligent people would only laugh.
Basically, that's why you're not a Stanford student.
Because those people are brainwashed beyond repair
What did that phone call contain which proved US involvement in the revolution?
Nothing.
Yanukovych offered Yatsenyuk and Klitschko the prime-ministership, Nuland WANTED Yats to accept (IE work under Yanukovych), it was a bid to calm the protests and engender stability, but Yatsenyuk went against Nuland's suggestions. Literally opposite proof of 'US picking leadership'.
Super from Bar, Ukraine!!!😊😊😊
I'm glad to see that, with things like DeSantis talking about "territorial disputes" to appease right-wing isolationists, and peaceniks on the left complaining about military support for Ukraine, there *are* serious-minded people who understand how important what's happening there is to the world order going forward, and to liberal democracies, including the United States, in particular. Freedom isn't free, and when you can protect it by spending your nation's treasure instead of your people's blood, that's a huge bargain.
I think the world vision is utterly different from the west collective.
unfortunately you are ABSOLUTELY correct, and that’s the sad danger that we will have to live in until there is only one side left standing in THE END.
Yes I agree, its amazing that so many former colonies just loves Russias colonial expansion. Why have we who lives close to Russia no right to stay free? Why do so many in the global south wish us to controlled and ruled by a super corrupt and evil Russia.
143 countries condemned Russia's invasion and demanded that Putin's invasion force has to retreat. Only 5 others voted for Russia and one of them was North Korea.
I laughed with them but not for the same reasons...
work for the love of life and not for money
1:24:00 - the kid asked the right question
Thank you for this very informative discussion.
Ukraine must win.
You mean like Afghanistan "won" in the 80s?
@@WattisWatts When Russia gets out and stays out of Ukraine and minds it’s own business. Ukrainians don’t want Russia, they want to live freely and democratically in their own country, culture and traditions, Westward facing away from autocratic, repressive and dangerous police state Russia. Taiwanese the same in regards to brute unfree China.
@@WattisWatts Afghanistan was a beautiful peaceful country before the Russians ruined it forever, because the Afghans dared to fight against Russian dominance and refused to accept the government Russia had chosen for Afghanistan, sounds familiar? Russia is a terrorist State, it needs to be dismantled till it stops to threaten its neighbours
@@WattisWatts don't worry about us, after the expulsion of the Russian occupiers, we will manage ourselves.
"you mean like *false equivalence*?@@WattisWatts
Super!!!😊😊😊
Fight for the last Ukrainian!
Why don't all this leaders and politicians send the son's and daughters to Ukraine to fight .
One of the best discussions, ever. Among the many great points mentioned, the one which impressed me most was McFaul identifying the fact that we still use outdated norms (50 years old) in running foreign policy. To me, that fact applies to almost everything the government does.
“The Ukrainian army is Well-prepared and offers worthy resistance.” “Our task is not Bakhmut itself, but the destruction of the Ukrainian army and the reduction of its combat potential, which has an extremely positive effect on other areas, which is why this operation was dubbed the ‘Bakhmut meat grinder’.” - Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of Russia’s Wagner group.
none of those things have been accomplished and now Prigozhin is looking to leave Bakhmut because they failed and it has bled them badly
why on earth would you quote a degenerate in the first place lol
@@dro355 “The less emphasis the Western media places on Bakhmut's strategic importance, the more important it is to Russia. Why would the Ukrainians fight so hard for it if it wasn't that important? It has devolved into a meat grinder, in their own words. If it wasn't that important, they could have given up and launched a counterattack to retake other more important Russian-occupied cities.” - Douglas Macgregor
@@dro355 “Zelensky will fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. Let's give this man more lethal weapons, please. No American boots on the ground in Ukraine. It's a good investment, in my opinion, to continue our crucial support and our vital assistance to the Ukrainian soldiers so we can stop Putin's imperial ambitions and give Russia a strategic defeat in Ukraine.” - Sen. Lindsey Graham
@@dro355 Michael McFaul fail... in Russia-Ukraine deals too.. I, as a person who worked in the Russian opposition in the 2000s, can say that McFaul completely failed to work with the Russian opposition and does not understand Russia at all, all his conclusions (about China too) are so stupid and ridiculous that he can be shown as an anti-expert on Russia
Good solid Republicans preparing us to throw the Ukrainians under the bus.
I am sure this is the last Havel lecture
That’s great analysis!
“liberal order” is all I need to see. We know which kind of order these lads want.
This is what you get when you have government officials who cannot define what a woman is. The whole world 🌎 sees it and is turning its back on the US. 😅😅😅
The Americans might want to ask themselves: how this hawkish guy happened to be a US ambassador to Russia and a key figure from the American side in relations with Russia? Did it promote peace and understanding or did it contribute to the hostility?
📍1:19:15