I landed here by search because my TBC-1000 might be dying. What a treat to see someone using the HD-PVR. I just removed my model 1212 from atop my TBC to give it some breathing room. I replaced it a year or so ago with a USB3HDCAP from Startech. I've got a box full of Hauppauge cards and boxes I've used through the years. This is the first video of yours I've seen -- subscribing!
Interesting. I've tried a ton of TBC (For.a, G2, Snell & Wilcox, JVC, Kramer) in order to stabilize and improve analog materials (VHS, Beta, U-matic), but none of them satisfied me like the DVD recoder "solution" (Panasonic, Sony and Pioneer). The results are quite impressive. Easy, quick and cheaper. I can capture my footage with no drops simply splitting the signal from the source (Pana DVD recorder) through HDMI and send it to the IP4K capture card.
I generally record onto DVDR disks straight from the tape, and then just pop the DVD in the computer and rip that disk and build MPG2 or $ files. If a client wants somthing as an MP4 or whatever. I record it onto a DVD-RW disk, rip it o the computer, and put it in whatever file format they want. Then erase the DVD-RW disk and use it again. Fortunately 95% of my clients just want their material archived to DVD so I use a DVD recorder solution too. I have 3 Toshiba, 3 Panasonic and a Sony (which is a pioneer by the way). The Sony and one Panasonic has a hard drive as well. I also have a liteon that will accept a PAL input from my multi statdard VCR, and convert the signal to NTSC or vise versa.
Depending on the material to digitize, I generally record onto both PVR's HDD (and then onto DVD) in high MPG2 quality and/or onto PC's HDD in uncompressed file format (v210) for archival purposes.
In the beginning I did not understand why you were comparing. Now it makes perfect sense. My brother had a VCR that ignored macrovision. He had no idea why but he used it for years to copy VHS from video stores.
I have a MX1, that I used to change between two different video sources. I didn't know that it could strip Macrovision, I never tried putting a vcr output into the MX1.
Wonderful video. Thank you for your detailed explanations! For use as a TBC only when digitizing VHS, can you make recommendation between the Videonics mx-1 vs hotronics ap41? Thank you!
I know this is old, but that TBC is still around it seems... I haven't used one since 1993 or so I think and I'm wondering if the unit you're using is newer or older. I remember the unit I used was great for stabilizing things - mostly 3/4" but sometimes VHS, but it did have an issue where there seemed to be some shortcuts (or limitations on AD/DA converters then?) that resulted in visible gradient transitions when a scene faded in or out to black. Do the Hotronic or the Videonics units have this issue as well? Do you test for that?
I was under the impression any modern capture card with enough memory to buffer multiple frames (for bidirectional motion encoding) didn't need a TBC because it already contains a TBC. It samples each line into the buffer based on the varying sync pulses, but the encoder will read that buffer in whatever manner it needs to.
Yes and no. They basically digitize each frame, and do hold multiple frames in memory however the capture card is also doing all the encoding work, and where problems arise if when blank sections of tape are encountered. This can cause buffer underruns as the capture card is encoding, and runs out of data, and just ends up with random noise and no sync pluse. So running through a TBC before the capture card, the TBC will generate, and replace the sync pluses, so when an unrecorded section of tape passes, the sync pluses continue, and the capture card is happy. I have some pretty high end cards here from back in the day before digital video when we were capturing component video from Betacam, and abruptly ending video was murder on the capture card. I used to make sure I recorded a good 10 seconds of black at the end of the shot just to give myself time to dump out of the capture before the signal ended. capturing through my DV deck is not a problem though as it has a TBC on the input. The Hauppague I used in this demo however does not. It expects a nice stable signal, as it is designed to be used with an HD cable box or satellite receiver to archive HD content via the component input, and it does a fantastic job doing that. That is what I use it for. I offload shows from my PVR that I want to keep a copy of, and throw it onto a Bluray disk. The quality is awesome.
Mine is built into my digitizer deck a Sony gvd7000. I can. Feed in composite or s video and a DV stream comes out on FireWire. This is a mini hdv deck that will record and play DV and HDV tapes. When new it was about 1200.00 but it does a very good job.
Your trick actually worked, you could put film audio through a pitch shifter, if you have Audacity you could flip the movie audio if that is what you want to do.
Hi 12voltvids. I just got a Hotronic AP41, but whenever I run my VHS tapes via S-Video from my VCR to the AP41 unit, the video strobes vertically up, kind of like an old film effect in a film projector. I've tried every setting on this machine but the most I can get it to do is go from the vertical strobe to a stuttered look which doesn't look right either. Does this problem sound familiar?
In a previous video when you repaired the Hotronics AP41 (bad bypass relay) I noticed a DIPswitch on the motherboard with 8 switches. I noticed from 1 to 8 that the switches 4-6-8 were in the ON position. I'm sure these switches have something to do with the AP41 setup on the vertical interval, I mean which behaviour to have on the first horizontal lines (macrovision pulses disable). My question is did you let this DIP switch (4-6-8 = ON) configuration for the above video which clearly remove the macrovision ?I have the AP41 user manual but there are no info about how to set these DIP switches..And Hotronics people just keep on telling me there are no support anymore for these obsolete TBC.. (!!!) They would even not let me or offer me to buy a service manual.. So what DIP switches configuration did you use ??? Thanks.
jpdesroc I made no changes to the dip switches. I dont have a manual either and I do not know what they do. For all i know they select internal reference or external gen lock or select ntsc/pal/secam operation. Perhaps black level 0 / 7.5ire ect. Don't know didn't change them. Might be worth a second look as I have that tbc. It was given to me but i havent used it since the demo.
This is deep. I recently have begun to capture my music videos from VHS tapes via my Panasonic VCR which has a tbc on off button. But, I also have a dps-290 tbc . Does the tbc make the videos look better? Or is strictly for macrovision purposes? Loved your video!
Hello 12voltvids, I really loved your video and was hoping to pick your brain if I may. I was looking at the Hotronic AP41 as a TBC for capturing old VHS and Hi-8 tapes through a MOTU HD Express capture device for Adobe Premiere. Doing so is next to impossible without a TBC. I do have a Videonics MX1 and now see that I could run my footage through this to stabilize the footage but it seems that the AP41 would have better controls for black levels, chroma phase and other things. I am excited to try my MX1 for sure but do I have to have an oscilloscope with the AP41 or can I go by visual of what I'm seeing on screen? Thank you for the time. Steve
ou can use the scope window on premiere to check your video levels, or if you are feeling thrifty, pick up an old waveform monitor like I have. Mine cost me only 30.00 many years ago. The Hotronic will give you more control for sure, however this is usually unnecessary because once captured you have full control in premiere and can make your levels perfect in post. So the MX1 will stabalize good enough and then if you need to tweak levels you can do it in post. Another very good way, but more time consuming is to use a stand alone DVD recorder, and burn direct to DVD-RW disks, then import the disks directly. Most of these DVD recorders have superior A-D converters than any of the consumer level capture devices. It does however add an additional step. I generally use my GV-HD7000 which gives me a 25mbit DV stream, and import directly into premiere. No TBC is needed in this case. You can use a DV camera or Digital 8 camera for this operation as well, as they have AV-DV conversion built in, and that way it goes in directly on firewire.
Thank you for your quick reply. The one reason I avoided the DVD recorder option was because I knew that I would want to edit the uncompressed footage without compressing it to an MPEG format first and then editing it and the compressing it again on output. Again, I appreciate your expertise and can't wait to try this. Have a great evening, Steve
Hey Dave! I got a question that only you could answer. I know external TBC's work better, but I was doing some captures today with my Panasonic AG4700, and when the TBC is ON, it adds some issues to the sound. Like high pitching or streching some parts of the music to fit the frame rate. I switched the TBC off and it sounded more natural. (some glitches of the tape, it does the same in others VCRs). Coul a bad (or partially) bad cap on the TBC circuit be causing it? or is just that the internal TBC is horseshit?
@@12voltvids Hopefully sometime soon will get a Panasonic mixer with built in TBC or a Videonics like you. Regarding the TBC module (VEP03A53), it has 8 variable resistors: DIG. C LEVEL, W.B1, W.B2, R-Y LEVEL, 1HDL GAIN, TBC SYNC LEVEL, TBC OUT LEVEL, NOISE GATE. Do you think that the sync issue could be solved by tweaking it? I haven't been able to find any reference of "how to tweak (or tune) a TBC module".
Do you have any idea why the first VHS looks so bad? Do you think some tapes age better than others? I have some VHS tapes recorded from TV the early 80s that look like they were just recorded, and some that look like that first one. And in terms of Betamax in my experience it seems to age better than most VHS tapes.
The first video was recorded in 1980 on an old rca vct201 directly off the 1" broadcast tape. The jutaasic park tape was much newer and has not been played much. Different tapes age differently. Different brands have different tape formulas.
I find this pretty fascinating. Is the TBC removing the Macrovision because it sees it as being interference? Pretty incredible the results, same with the MX1. Oh and if you do have the rest of that SLAMM footage I'd like to see it :) What were your responsibilities on that production as Technical Director?
Basically that meant that I directed the show. Called the shots for camera operators, and operated the video switcher. They were lip synching to the record, so I got to hit the switch on the turn table to send playback to the monitors in the studio so the guys could pretend to play and sing. Also in the truck with me would have been the tape operator that ran the VTR, and monitored the video levels ect. We did each track as a separate take, so the switcher would be in black, tape would roll, tape operator would be prerolling and count down the time until he hit record, and then bam, he is in record, we call action, music cues soon as the guys are in sync I fade up from black, and the show goes on. This was recorded live to 1" tape. End of the song fade to black, roll for several seconds stop record. Cue back, get set for next song. If I remember there were some interviews in between each song where the guys talked for a few minutes, then did the next one. The tape I have just has the music cut on it, and there is a blunt VHS edit between the tracks, so I am assuming that I cut something out when I dubbed it. I have it on 3/4" too somewhere. Have another band we did where I was on handheld camera, which was a big thing back then as we has just gotten a 30,000 Hitachi FP40. It was a 3x saticon tube camera, that weighed about 45Lbs, and it allowed angles that we couldn't get with the CEI 280 studio cameras that were monsters mounted on large heavy tripods.
How a TBC works, for those that don't know is, and t here are 3 types of TBC. Actually 4 if you consider the earliest analog types, but for this description I will only talk about digital types. In the digital mode there are 3 types. 3 line, field, and full frame. They all work in a similar manner, and it boils down to the amount of memory they contain. Remember that memory was very expensive back in the 80's and 90's so most consumer devices were 3 line. What that means is that only 3 horizontal lines were stored in memory. 1 being read in, 1 in memory, and 1 being read out with the timing corrected. Field store reads the entire field in, and then as the second field is being read in, the first is being read out. Frame, well you get it. The entire frame, both fields are read in and as the next frame is being read in the first out. The problem is that with a frame store your video is delayed by 1 full frame, or 1/30 of a second. So you don't want to run trough a frame store while editing, and then through another one when playing the edited tape, now you are 3 frames back. For every generation, you loose a frame of sync, do that a few times, and well you get it. Lip synch error. So typically in a production facility a TBC was not used during the editing or tape, and only used on final playback to make the signal legal for transmission. Proc amps were more common for correcting video levels ect. When editing analog tape the additional jitter incurred when editing didn't affect the tape much, and again even with the added time base errors adding up through multiple generations, on final playback these were easily taken care of by the final TBC. It was a double edge sword, because you want to have the best quality signal going onto your master tape, but at the same time, adding an extra frame of delay is unacceptable
12voltvids Now it makes a lot of sense. So would that mean that the macrovision signals are seen by the TBC as not legal for transmission and so it strips those parts out to make sure it meets the spec?
The TBC is reading the active video portion into memory. It is ignoring the sync area, as it is generating new sync. The A/D locks onto the incoming sync and the video is digitized, and since digital has a limited range of quantization levels in excess of 100IRE will get clipped.Once digitized it is stored in memory, and clocked out to the new sync that is internally generated, or to the station genlock. New horizontal and vertical blanking signals are inserted, and anything that was in the blanking area of the original incoming video, including the macrovision signals are discarded. Even the color burst is regenerated. It just puts the active video on. Some TBCs don't even pass closed caption data, but broadcast units need to pass VITS. Usually closed caption data is not recorded on the video tape at all. It is a data signal recorded on the 3rd audio channel, and feeds a seperate caption encoder that adds the caption data directly to the video passing theough it. Certainly it can be burned onto a tape on line 21 (for NTSC) and was on VHS tapes, but didn't have to to be. It could be encoded as a data stream on the linear audio channels Macrovision signals lines 10 to 18. Active picture starts at line 22, and many TBC just put pure sync on those areas, and of course if they don't pass line 21 will also strip the closed caption data. I haven't tried this one to see if it strips CC data or not but it probably does.
One of the thing I hate about Macrovision, is it affects my RF modulators in my office. My old TV (wooden, vacuum tubes, delta gun, etc) requires an RF modulator connected to my DVD player, but it affects it causing the macrovision effect to happen even though it's going straight to a TV rather than a VCR. Oddly enough, the ONLY fix was to use an old Panasonic top loading VCR, it seems to not care about the macrovision signal and can not only record them without brightening and dimming the picture (in fact, the tapes it makes ARE copy protected also which is ironic), it's built in RF modulator works for my old TV to view it without problem.
It probably does, because the TBC adds processing, and when you process a video you never get what went in. That is why VCRs designed for editing had an "edit" switch. The edit switch turned off all noise reduction processing. On professional machines we had a mode called RF editing that basically ran a straight RF path from the head amp on the playback deck to the record amp on the recorder. No you couldn't add effects, or add titles, just dub a tape, but it gave you the closest thing to a perfect copy as you could get in the analog world. We called it a 1/2 generation loss as there was no processing done. The playback signal amplfied and recorded to the record deck.
Again someone that can't read. Their name is at the start, and the end, and they are wearing it on their T shirts. SLAMM. I have the entire set they recorded if anyone is interested I can post it.
Actually that prize went to Sony with the Bluray format, first shown in 2000. Sony's first HDV tape format prototype was 2002, and the release date of the first HDV camcorder, the HDR FX1 was 2004, which is the year I got mine. 13 years later that camera works as well as the day I unboxed it.
So whats your point? D-VHS never got off the ground. JVC never even brought them to Canada. The first real VCR that recorded in HD, that was widely available was the HDV format. It used the same tape that was already in use for DV, and was baclwards compatabe. I know JVC tried to bring DVHS to marlet, and the proto types were around for the CES in 98, but very few actually made it to market, and they shot themself in the foot with D Theatre, as that was yet another format. The onl;y pre-recorded movies released were in D-Theatre format, so anyone that had the d-vhs (non d theatre version) was screwed. Like HDV they recorded an mpg2 transport stream.
@@12voltvids Yuki didn't say HD VHS was popular. He stated it offered HD support before anyone else. I think most people would prefer an optical disk over tape and that is why Blu-ray survived.
Dvhs didn't get much love in the consumer circles. Devolopwd by JVC, Panasonic, Hitachi and Philips. JVC and Sony Devoloped the hdv format which had much more commercial suscess. They Devoloped both around the same time 1998, but hdv wasn't marketed until 2003.
It's VHS, what did you expect it to look like? That and the fact that the tape is 37 years old! Considering the age, and the source it actually looks pretty good. On my computer, the TBC side has better black levels, and color. When video systems were first introduced for consumers there were 2 systems, Beta and VHS. Beta was better, considerably better, but the inferior VHS system won out due to JVC and Panasonic dumping their product, and putting slower speeds, with an even worse picture. The un-educated buyers, didn't care. They only cared about how many hours it would record on a tape, and how much it cost. Those that did their research, knew that Beta was better, and they initially bought Beta, but it was a loosing battle and Sony finally raised the white flag. So we got what we got. No point whining about it now. It's a dead format but when you have rare and valuable footage on VHS what's ya gonna do?
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I landed here by search because my TBC-1000 might be dying. What a treat to see someone using the HD-PVR. I just removed my model 1212 from atop my TBC to give it some breathing room. I replaced it a year or so ago with a USB3HDCAP from Startech. I've got a box full of Hauppauge cards and boxes I've used through the years. This is the first video of yours I've seen -- subscribing!
Interesting. I've tried a ton of TBC (For.a, G2, Snell & Wilcox, JVC, Kramer) in order to stabilize and improve analog materials (VHS, Beta, U-matic), but none of them satisfied me like the DVD recoder "solution" (Panasonic, Sony and Pioneer). The results are quite impressive. Easy, quick and cheaper. I can capture my footage with no drops simply splitting the signal from the source (Pana DVD recorder) through HDMI and send it to the IP4K capture card.
I generally record onto DVDR disks straight from the tape, and then just pop the DVD in the computer and rip that disk and build MPG2 or $ files.
If a client wants somthing as an MP4 or whatever. I record it onto a DVD-RW disk, rip it o the computer, and put it in whatever file format they want. Then erase the DVD-RW disk and use it again.
Fortunately 95% of my clients just want their material archived to DVD so I use a DVD recorder solution too. I have 3 Toshiba, 3 Panasonic and a Sony (which is a pioneer by the way). The Sony and one Panasonic has a hard drive as well. I also have a liteon that will accept a PAL input from my multi statdard VCR, and convert the signal to NTSC or vise versa.
Depending on the material to digitize, I generally record onto both PVR's HDD (and then onto DVD) in high MPG2 quality and/or onto PC's HDD in uncompressed file format (v210) for archival purposes.
4:05 quack quack quack quack!!! 🦆🦆🦆🦆
In the beginning I did not understand why you were comparing. Now it makes perfect sense. My brother had a VCR that ignored macrovision. He had no idea why but he used it for years to copy VHS from video stores.
I have a MX1, that I used to change between two different video sources. I didn't know that it could strip Macrovision, I never tried putting a vcr output into the MX1.
Just recently got two! Pray that they work well and have no issues
Wonderful video. Thank you for your detailed explanations! For use as a TBC only when digitizing VHS, can you make recommendation between the Videonics mx-1 vs hotronics ap41? Thank you!
I know this is old, but that TBC is still around it seems... I haven't used one since 1993 or so I think and I'm wondering if the unit you're using is newer or older. I remember the unit I used was great for stabilizing things - mostly 3/4" but sometimes VHS, but it did have an issue where there seemed to be some shortcuts (or limitations on AD/DA converters then?) that resulted in visible gradient transitions when a scene faded in or out to black. Do the Hotronic or the Videonics units have this issue as well? Do you test for that?
I never use it. I have proper capture equipment that has a built in tbc on the input.
I was under the impression any modern capture card with enough memory to buffer multiple frames (for bidirectional motion encoding) didn't need a TBC because it already contains a TBC. It samples each line into the buffer based on the varying sync pulses, but the encoder will read that buffer in whatever manner it needs to.
Yes and no. They basically digitize each frame, and do hold multiple frames in memory however the capture card is also doing all the encoding work, and where problems arise if when blank sections of tape are encountered.
This can cause buffer underruns as the capture card is encoding, and runs out of data, and just ends up with random noise and no sync pluse. So running through a TBC before the capture card, the TBC will generate, and replace the sync pluses, so when an unrecorded section of tape passes, the sync pluses continue, and the capture card is happy.
I have some pretty high end cards here from back in the day before digital video when we were capturing component video from Betacam, and abruptly ending video was murder on the capture card. I used to make sure I recorded a good 10 seconds of black at the end of the shot just to give myself time to dump out of the capture before the signal ended. capturing through my DV deck is not a problem though as it has a TBC on the input.
The Hauppague I used in this demo however does not. It expects a nice stable signal, as it is designed to be used with an HD cable box or satellite receiver to archive HD content via the component input, and it does a fantastic job doing that. That is what I use it for. I offload shows from my PVR that I want to keep a copy of, and throw it onto a Bluray disk. The quality is awesome.
What kind of TBC did you use?
Mine is built into my digitizer deck a Sony gvd7000. I can. Feed in composite or s video and a DV stream comes out on FireWire. This is a mini hdv deck that will record and play DV and HDV tapes. When new it was about 1200.00 but it does a very good job.
Your trick actually worked, you could put film audio through a pitch shifter, if you have Audacity you could flip the movie audio if that is what you want to do.
I assume this is NTSC, right? Does this time base corrector work also with PAL or SECAM signal?
Not this model.
Hi 12voltvids. I just got a Hotronic AP41, but whenever I run my VHS tapes via S-Video from my VCR to the AP41 unit, the video strobes vertically up, kind of like an old film effect in a film projector. I've tried every setting on this machine but the most I can get it to do is go from the vertical strobe to a stuttered look which doesn't look right either. Does this problem sound familiar?
great vid! does the hotronic ap41 also digitize the video upon correction or does it work analog?
In a previous video when you repaired the Hotronics AP41 (bad bypass relay) I noticed a DIPswitch on the motherboard with 8 switches. I noticed from 1 to 8 that the switches 4-6-8 were in the ON position. I'm sure these switches have something to do with the AP41 setup on the vertical interval, I mean which behaviour to have on the first horizontal lines (macrovision pulses disable). My question is did you let this DIP switch (4-6-8 = ON) configuration for the above video which clearly remove the macrovision ?I have the AP41 user manual but there are no info about how to set these DIP switches..And Hotronics people just keep on telling me there are no support anymore for these obsolete TBC.. (!!!)
They would even not let me or offer me to buy a service manual.. So what DIP switches configuration did you use ??? Thanks.
jpdesroc
I made no changes to the dip switches. I dont have a manual either and I do not know what they do. For all i know they select internal reference or external gen lock or select ntsc/pal/secam operation. Perhaps black level 0 / 7.5ire ect. Don't know didn't change them. Might be worth a second look as I have that tbc. It was given to me but i havent used it since the demo.
Aww cat❤❤
This is deep. I recently have begun to capture my music videos from VHS tapes via my Panasonic VCR which has a tbc on off button. But, I also have a dps-290 tbc . Does the tbc make the videos look better? Or is strictly for macrovision purposes? Loved your video!
Huge difference with some tapes. Check this out...th-cam.com/video/HEXLlqJQ7Oc/w-d-xo.html
If you have any hiphop/rap music videos digitised, can you please send them to me?
@@dabomb3864I have some rap videos
Hello 12voltvids,
I really loved your video and was hoping to pick your brain if I may.
I was looking at the Hotronic AP41 as a TBC for capturing old VHS and Hi-8 tapes through a MOTU HD Express capture device for Adobe Premiere. Doing so is next to impossible without a TBC.
I do have a Videonics MX1 and now see that I could run my footage through this to stabilize the footage but it seems that the AP41 would have better controls for black levels, chroma phase and other things. I am excited to try my MX1 for sure but do I have to have an oscilloscope with the AP41 or can I go by visual of what I'm seeing on screen?
Thank you for the time.
Steve
ou can use the scope window on premiere to check your video levels, or if you are feeling thrifty, pick up an old waveform monitor like I have. Mine cost me only 30.00 many years ago. The Hotronic will give you more control for sure, however this is usually unnecessary because once captured you have full control in premiere and can make your levels perfect in post. So the MX1 will stabalize good enough and then if you need to tweak levels you can do it in post. Another very good way, but more time consuming is to use a stand alone DVD recorder, and burn direct to DVD-RW disks, then import the disks directly. Most of these DVD recorders have superior A-D converters than any of the consumer level capture devices. It does however add an additional step. I generally use my GV-HD7000 which gives me a 25mbit DV stream, and import directly into premiere. No TBC is needed in this case. You can use a DV camera or Digital 8 camera for this operation as well, as they have AV-DV conversion built in, and that way it goes in directly on firewire.
Thank you for your quick reply. The one reason I avoided the DVD recorder option was because I knew that I would want to edit the uncompressed footage without compressing it to an MPEG format first and then editing it and the compressing it again on output.
Again, I appreciate your expertise and can't wait to try this.
Have a great evening,
Steve
Hey Dave! I got a question that only you could answer. I know external TBC's work better, but I was doing some captures today with my Panasonic AG4700, and when the TBC is ON, it adds some issues to the sound. Like high pitching or streching some parts of the music to fit the frame rate.
I switched the TBC off and it sounded more natural. (some glitches of the tape, it does the same in others VCRs).
Coul a bad (or partially) bad cap on the TBC circuit be causing it? or is just that the internal TBC is horseshit?
Could be anything in the TBC. Most internal ones are pretty lame.
@@12voltvids Hopefully sometime soon will get a Panasonic mixer with built in TBC or a Videonics like you.
Regarding the TBC module (VEP03A53), it has 8 variable resistors:
DIG. C LEVEL, W.B1, W.B2, R-Y LEVEL, 1HDL GAIN, TBC SYNC LEVEL, TBC OUT LEVEL, NOISE GATE.
Do you think that the sync issue could be solved by tweaking it?
I haven't been able to find any reference of "how to tweak (or tune) a TBC module".
whats a good cleaner that i can use to get the dust off the boards?
Do you have any idea why the first VHS looks so bad? Do you think some tapes age better than others? I have some VHS tapes recorded from TV the early 80s that look like they were just recorded, and some that look like that first one. And in terms of Betamax in my experience it seems to age better than most VHS tapes.
The first video was recorded in 1980 on an old rca vct201 directly off the 1" broadcast tape. The jutaasic park tape was much newer and has not been played much. Different tapes age differently. Different brands have different tape formulas.
@@12voltvids That's a shame, and even in SP still aged badly. And no way to know at the time what would last.
@@laurabraniganforever-matty7613
No video tape lasts forever.
I find this pretty fascinating. Is the TBC removing the Macrovision because it sees it as being interference? Pretty incredible the results, same with the MX1. Oh and if you do have the rest of that SLAMM footage I'd like to see it :) What were your responsibilities on that production as Technical Director?
Basically that meant that I directed the show. Called the shots for camera operators, and operated the video switcher. They were lip synching to the record, so I got to hit the switch on the turn table to send playback to the monitors in the studio so the guys could pretend to play and sing.
Also in the truck with me would have been the tape operator that ran the VTR, and monitored the video levels ect.
We did each track as a separate take, so the switcher would be in black, tape would roll, tape operator would be prerolling and count down the time until he hit record, and then bam, he is in record, we call action, music cues soon as the guys are in sync I fade up from black, and the show goes on.
This was recorded live to 1" tape. End of the song fade to black, roll for several seconds stop record. Cue back, get set for next song. If I remember there were some interviews in between each song where the guys talked for a few minutes, then did the next one. The tape I have just has the music cut on it, and there is a blunt VHS edit between the tracks, so I am assuming that I cut something out when I dubbed it. I have it on 3/4" too somewhere.
Have another band we did where I was on handheld camera, which was a big thing back then as we has just gotten a 30,000 Hitachi FP40. It was a 3x saticon tube camera, that weighed about 45Lbs, and it allowed angles that we couldn't get with the CEI 280 studio cameras that were monsters mounted on
large heavy tripods.
How a TBC works, for those that don't know is, and t here are 3 types of TBC. Actually 4 if you consider the earliest analog types, but for this description I will only talk about digital types. In the digital mode there are 3 types. 3 line, field, and full frame.
They all work in a similar manner, and it boils down to the amount of memory they contain. Remember that memory was very expensive back in the 80's and 90's so most consumer devices were 3 line. What that means is that only 3 horizontal lines were stored in memory. 1 being read in, 1 in memory, and 1 being read out with the timing corrected.
Field store reads the entire field in, and then as the second field is being read in, the first is being read out. Frame, well you get it. The entire frame, both fields are read in and as the next frame is being read in the first out.
The problem is that with a frame store your video is delayed by 1 full frame, or 1/30 of a second. So you don't want to run trough a frame store while editing, and then through another one when playing the edited tape, now you are 3 frames back. For every generation, you loose a frame of sync, do that a few times, and well you get it. Lip synch error.
So typically in a production facility a TBC was not used during the editing or tape, and only used on final playback to make the signal legal for transmission. Proc amps were more common for correcting video levels ect.
When editing analog tape the additional jitter incurred when editing didn't affect the tape much, and again even with the added time base errors adding up through multiple generations, on final playback these were easily taken care of by the final TBC. It was a double edge sword, because you want to have the best quality signal going onto your master tape, but at the same time, adding an extra frame of delay is unacceptable
12voltvids Now it makes a lot of sense. So would that mean that the macrovision signals are seen by the TBC as not legal for transmission and so it strips those parts out to make sure it meets the spec?
The TBC is reading the active video portion into memory. It is ignoring the sync area, as it is generating new sync. The A/D locks onto the incoming sync and the video is digitized, and since digital has a limited range of quantization levels in excess of 100IRE will get clipped.Once digitized it is stored in memory, and clocked out to the new sync that is internally generated, or to the station genlock.
New horizontal and vertical blanking signals are inserted, and anything that was in the blanking area of the original incoming video, including the macrovision signals are discarded. Even the color burst is regenerated. It just puts the active video on. Some TBCs don't even pass closed caption data, but broadcast units need to pass VITS. Usually closed caption data is not recorded on the video tape at all. It is a data signal recorded on the 3rd audio channel, and feeds a seperate caption encoder that adds the caption data directly to the video passing theough it. Certainly it can be burned onto a tape on line 21 (for NTSC) and was on VHS tapes, but didn't have to to be. It could be encoded as a data stream on the linear audio channels
Macrovision signals lines 10 to 18. Active picture starts at line 22, and many TBC just put pure sync on those areas, and of course if they don't pass line 21 will also strip the closed caption data. I haven't tried this one to see if it strips CC data or not but it probably does.
One of the thing I hate about Macrovision, is it affects my RF modulators in my office. My old TV (wooden, vacuum tubes, delta gun, etc) requires an RF modulator connected to my DVD player, but it affects it causing the macrovision effect to happen even though it's going straight to a TV rather than a VCR.
Oddly enough, the ONLY fix was to use an old Panasonic top loading VCR, it seems to not care about the macrovision signal and can not only record them without brightening and dimming the picture (in fact, the tapes it makes ARE copy protected also which is ironic), it's built in RF modulator works for my old TV to view it without problem.
thank you for this tutorial
On thar SLAMM video I actually thought the picture looked better without TBC.
It probably does, because the TBC adds processing, and when you process a video you never get what went in. That is why VCRs designed for editing had an "edit" switch. The edit switch turned off all noise reduction processing.
On professional machines we had a mode called RF editing that basically ran a straight RF path from the head amp on the playback deck to the record amp on the recorder. No you couldn't add effects, or add titles, just dub a tape, but it gave you the closest thing to a perfect copy as you could get in the analog world. We called it a 1/2 generation loss as there was no processing done. The playback signal amplfied and recorded to the record deck.
Nice!
yup camera 2 crossed the Access point lol..
what is that bands name
Again someone that can't read. Their name is at the start, and the end, and they are wearing it on their T shirts. SLAMM.
I have the entire set they recorded if anyone is interested I can post it.
ironically vhs was the first hd format d vhs hd theatre
Actually that prize went to Sony with the Bluray format, first shown in 2000. Sony's first HDV tape format prototype was 2002, and the release date of the first HDV camcorder, the HDR FX1 was 2004, which is the year I got mine. 13 years later that camera works as well as the day I unboxed it.
en.m.wikipedia.org
So whats your point? D-VHS never got off the ground. JVC never even brought them to Canada. The first real VCR that recorded in HD, that was widely available was the HDV format. It used the same tape that was already in use for DV, and was baclwards compatabe. I know JVC tried to bring DVHS to marlet, and the proto types were around for the CES in 98, but very few actually made it to market, and they shot themself in the foot with D Theatre, as that was yet another format. The onl;y pre-recorded movies released were in D-Theatre format, so anyone that had the d-vhs (non d theatre version) was screwed.
Like HDV they recorded an mpg2 transport stream.
@@12voltvids Yuki didn't say HD VHS was popular. He stated it offered HD support before anyone else. I think most people would prefer an optical disk over tape and that is why Blu-ray survived.
Dvhs didn't get much love in the consumer circles. Devolopwd by JVC, Panasonic, Hitachi and Philips. JVC and Sony Devoloped the hdv format which had much more commercial suscess. They Devoloped both around the same time 1998, but hdv wasn't marketed until 2003.
do you have an email i can contact you from?
Copyright strike in 3... 2... 1...
Nope. Clips too short to make a match, and they are flipped backwards.
You can use under 9 seconds and np match will be made.
oh .. try to capture the same movie by connecting betamax..trust me..it woorks
Painful to watch that kind of a band.
It becomes an earworm real fast.
I could not see any difference when you put that split screen up they both looked like crap.
It's VHS, what did you expect it to look like? That and the fact that the tape is 37 years old! Considering the age, and the source it actually looks pretty good. On my computer, the TBC side has better black levels, and color.
When video systems were first introduced for consumers there were 2 systems, Beta and VHS. Beta was better, considerably better, but the inferior VHS system won out due to JVC and Panasonic dumping their product, and putting slower speeds, with an even worse picture. The un-educated buyers, didn't care. They only cared about how many hours it would record on a tape, and how much it cost. Those that did their research, knew that Beta was better, and they initially bought Beta, but it was a loosing battle and Sony finally raised the white flag. So we got what we got.
No point whining about it now. It's a dead format but when you have rare and valuable footage on VHS what's ya gonna do?
@@12voltvids r/vhs