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- Glory (1989) | First Time Watching | Movie Reaction
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I'm watching Glory for the first time ever!
I can't wait to experience this iconic film for the first time!
Glory is such a beloved film by so many people and I can't wait to for you all to watch along with me
During the American Civil War, Robert Gould Shaw is promoted to colonel of one of the Union Army's first all-black regiments. As he leads the group, he encounters prejudice on both sides of the war.
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Release date: 1 March 1990 (Australia)
Director: Edward Zwick
Awards: Academy Award for Best Actor in a Supporting Role, MORE
*Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favour of fair use. NO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT INTENDED. All rights belong to their respective owners.
UPDATE: APOLOGIES IN REGARDS TO MY MISUNDERSTANDING WITH THE FLOGGING SCENE, I WAS UNAWARE THAT IT WAS A REGULAR PUNISHMENT FOR DESERTER SOLDIERS! THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING IN THE COMMENTS.
FULL AND LONGER REACTION:
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Jade is here to watch Remember Glory ⚔️
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I came to the comments explicitly to point that out... and now I have nothing of value to add. :D
@@lansorbet5882 cousin. I was named after him.
Several months ago I commented on someone's Glory reaction that flogging was a common form of military discipline well into the 19th Century, only to have someone correct me by telling me that the US Army had abolished the practice just prior to the Civil War. I haven't verified whether this person was right or not, but if he was, then the flogging scene could be considered a historical inaccuracy.
@@AstroXeno It was almost certainly completely fictional, because it's exactly the kind of poetic injustice scene that Hollywood writers make up and insert into every "true story." They love filling "historical stories" with fake garbage, and they justify it by pointing out how clever, poignant, and emotionally-moving it was... "see, he had been whipped his whole life because he was a slave, so we'll have the irony of having him be whipped by the people trying to end slavery, and then reveal that it was unjust because he wasn't actually deserting, he was just trying to get desperately-needed shoes, and because he did it, the whole unit finally got the new shoes and socks they deserved."
I will bet ten thousand dollars right now that it never happened and that the writers made that part up completely. And even if it was supposedly abandoned as practice just before the Civil War, that doesn't mean that it wasn't still done by commanders whose discretion told them that it was the best and most effective punishment short of execution. When I was in the Army, plenty of units did things that were technically not allowed anymore... people who I met who had trained at Jackson and Leonard Wood were shocked to hear what we did at Benning, saying "thy can't do that... it's illegal now, the Army banned that," naively believing that regulations dictate reality at a 1:1 rate everywhere and in all circumstances.
With any movie that has a historical reference, many react to what is on the screen without actually knowing all the details behind the scene. Especially what is factual versus opinionated. The Civil War is one of the most debated topics in the US. It is also the one used the most in today's culture to push divide among Americans instead of unity. If you ever do research it, make sure to use different sources for reference to draw your own opinions. Thank you for the excellent reaction. No apologies are necessary. 🥰
Flogging was a common punishment for all soldiers at that time. Death was the most common punishment for desertion. Shaw was trying to show that they were like any other soldiers and would receive the same punishments. Hope that helps.
Yeah, that is something a lot of tractors don't get, but is kind of important at that point in Shaws story. So many people are thinking negros, free or slave as lesser, but I don't think Shaw ever did.
@@Hapsard If this film has one flaw, its they didn't let the audience know that flogging was standard for all soldiers / sailors during this time period.
Yes flogging was common for desertion , no matter what race or creed you were , it's sad especially in this situation, but I get it, I don't know , I've always been conflicted by that moment in the film, regardless it was such an emotionally charged and beautifully shot scene, hard to watch but a favorite none the less
However, flogging had been abolished a couple years before this, so it wouldn't have happened at the time. But the movie left it for dramatic effect.
@@ericlewisauthor I'd rather call it BS effects. Read my other comments.
Robert saw the men as his equal. That's why he ordered the flogging, which was standard punishment for any soldier cought deserting. A soldier is a soldier, whether white or black, Hispanic, or whatever race. As unfortunately as being a slave was , once being in an institution like the military, one must treat all the same, and not make exceptions because of your past experience, race, religion or creed. All must be rewarded and punished the same. This may seem heartless and cold and emotionless, but necessary to train soldiers.
Correct, if he was white he would have received the same punishment.
Oh I’d never heard of flogging being a normal punishment for soldiers before! I guess for the time it was normal!
My bad I didn’t know it was done to any soldier considered a deserter!
@MovieJoob leaving without permission was viewed as desertion. Shaw was the Coloniel. It's his job to be separate from the men to avoid favoritism or even the view of favoritism. He needs to make life and death decisions and if you get too close to the men it makes it harder. Also if the soldiers under his command would see him showing favoritism it would hurt the moral. Imagine he needed to send a group into a situation they wouldnt be expected to live through and he didn't send Thomas. Some of the soldiers may see him valuing his life above thiers and protecting him. Theyd be less motivated, fight poorer, sow malcontent or even insurrection.
This is not correct. The standard punishment for deserting was death. The whipping was lenient. For clarity, I'm speaking of the flogging being standard punishment for desertion.
The confederates buried Colonel Shaw in a mass grave with his soldiers, intending it as an insult. But Shaw's family believed it was an honor for him. His father said:
"We would not have his body removed from where it lies surrounded by his brave and devoted soldiers. ... We can imagine no holier place than that in which he lies, among his brave and devoted followers, nor wish for him better company. - what a body-guard he has!"
That’s honestly kind of badass of his father! I’m glad they saw how honourable him being surrounded by his fellow soldiers was!
Still heartbreaking that all their lives came to such an abrupt, and for many, a young end! 😢
Greatly reactions jade. I'm glad you watched this one, it's really good
@@jeffstark8449 She confused the American Revolutionary War of 1775 with the Civil War of 1861 in this.
i was a piece of shit as a teenager, im nearing 50, i have always had my parents love, i wanted thier respect. it was a difficult road, but i finally got there.
sent a pic to my mom of me at work, dad sent it to all my uncles. i know him well. he is proud of me.
The last shot of the film is the memorial across from the Massachusetts state house. I have been many times. It's a magnificent tribute to Shaw and all these men.
That is so beautiful!! I’ve never been to Massachusetts but if I ever do I’d like to see it in person!!
And that memorial was defaced by ignorant rioters in the BLM riots. 18:48 18:50 18:52
@@aubreyj1957
By whom?
The reason why Shaw trained Sharpe using a revolver going off in the air behind him is the fact that in battle you're going to hear gunshots going off to your left right center in front of you behind you and you're going to be seeing men die all around you so having the ability to go back to that training is very valuable. One thing that happened pretty often during the war was that people would just freeze up in terror and just repeat the rifle drill to cope with the fear. Interestingly in order to go keep it safe the usual drill would leave out the step that allowed you to actually shoot the rifle and they were cases of shell-shocked soldiers who had loaded seven or eight rounds into their rifle in pure terror and because they never added on the percussion cap that would allow the rifle to shoot you would just have eight bullets lodged in there. It's interesting what happens in combat cuz at the end of the day training will take over.
Oh absolutely it would be way more intense even than what Shaw did but it was very sudden and not expected for the soldiers! But it’s definitely an important thing to be prepared for!!
It’s crazy how back then none of them had any ear protection so they would have had a lot of long term damage (had they survived long term)
It also wasnt unusual in line battles of that era for soldiers to leave their ramrod in the muzzle, resulting in the ramrods being fired like a spear in a spear gun and impaling men on the other side.
@@MovieJoob You'd think so, but not really... I grew up hunting with modern rifles and with muzzleloaders, and I was in the Army as an adult... and although old guns aren't exactly *quiet*, they are a lower volume than modern firearms, because modern ones are stronger and can handle higher pressures with much more powder and more force. You only start to *need* ear protection when you start to be surrounded by mortars and tanks and maybe high caliber modern rifles and Squad Automatic Weapons... but your ears are pretty safe being surrounded by muskets or even modern M-16 rifles (which are actually small caliber, despite false propaganda claiming they put fist-sized holes in people). Even after spending countless days with thousands of M-16 rounds being fired all around me each day on average, there's no long-term hearing damage. And that's after spending my entire childhood and adolescence with at least hundreds of thousands of rounds of varying calibers being fired by myself, my dad, and my brother, without hearing protection except for maybe a dozen times when shooting the very loudest guns we had.
the flogging part. as hurtful as it was...was not because he was a black man, but because he deserted. ANY soldier would have received the same punishment. Different times.
I had no idea that white soldiers got flogged too for desertion! So wild!
Very different times indeed!
@@MovieJoob You see something along those lines in the Sci-fi movie "Starship Troopers" as well. Obviously being a fiction makes it not exactly the same, but visually expresses the same thing.
RIP Andre Braugher.
"I'll see you in the fort, Thomas."
16:45 "You're just proving to everyone that you see them as less than human."
That is only true IF the punishment being given is not the same punishment a white person would be given for the same offense. Shaw was trying very hard to show NO favoritism or undue harshness and to treat them the same as any recruits.
My bad I didn’t know that white soldiers would get the same punishment for desertion! My apologies for the misunderstanding!!
Thank you so much for clarifying this!!
Great review! Glory and Gettysburg are probably the two best civil war combat movies out there, so I am glad that you got a chance to see one. As a historian, I did want to help you clear up a little bit about Robert Shaw, as he was an excellent officer. Because the time period is 160 years ago a lot of people who have seen the show recently have a misunderstanding of Shaw during the training phase of the movie. The flogging of Tripp was actually at that time a more generous punishment. He could have been shot or a lesser punishment was banded with a hot iron "C" on his face to show he was a coward. This punishment was for any soldier that left without leave. Indeed, the number of white soldiers that were flogged dwarfed the black troops as there were 10 times as many white troops.
But the big item was Shaw did not look down on his soldiers. Indeed, all of his doubts were of how he would perform commanding the troops. He thought very highly of the soldiers. But, since he was a commanding officer he couldn't really be at easy or fraternize with the troops. He might have to order them to their death in order to protect a military mission. So all officers are supposed to have a more formal relationship with soldiers under their command. He was actually treated very well and Major Forbes was violating this attitude more often in the movie. I have seen a lot of people who have recently seen the movie and misunderstood this as he was looking down on the troops. It was rather the opposite. Looking forward to more!!
While I fully agree with your analysis of the flogging scene, I gotta say, Gettysburg was "Lost Cause" fanboy porn! They left out the part where the Confederates enslaved the free black civilians living near Gettysburg.
@helifanodobezanozi7689 I disagree about Getting being "lost cause fanboy porn."
Gods and Generals definitely was but Gettysburg takes a pretty neutral stance.
Now, Gettysburg does present both sides as morally equal. That isn't true, but it's also not lost Cause.
Lost Cause would paint the Union as villians which Gettysburg does not.
I have many problems with the movie Gettysburg, but supporting the Lost Cause isn't one of them.
"You're just proving to everyone that you see them as less than human." This is 100% incorrect. A whipping was an extremely lenient punishment for desertion. The standard punishment for everyone was death, universally. It didn't matter white or black, American or any other country. Desertion carried a death penalty. The fact the individual was whipped meant that the Colonel was being lenient and kind.
The reference to the Irish animosity toward blacks, likely refers to the situation in the north. When the Irish came to America, they were treated even worse than the slaves, according to Sowell. In the north, they had to compete with freed blacks and runaways for the most menial employment. Hence the animosity for their competition to feed their families.
Historically, most amputations in the US Civil War were done under anesthesia. And, as brutal as it seems in our modern age, amputating a wounded limb doubled a soldier's chance of survival.
Yes, the civil war occurred right at the intersection where anesthesia was just becoming available (Ether and chloroform) but before the germ theory of disease so antibiotics weren’t around so a lot of operations where done that should have due to infection
11:24
In regards to the history of Irish people in the United States which Sergeant mulcahy was an Irish American immigrant they had to compete for the low tier jobs. A lot of people saw the Irish and Italians as barely above black people in the social hierarchy so there was a lot of competition and resentment between those communities. Especially in the Union where they saw service as a way to prove their loyalty and hire their standing they fought quite well in some Irish regimens like the 69th New York and the 28th Massachusetts became known as veteran troops. In fact there was an entire Brigade of about 3,000 men that were almost entirely Irish American immigrants or at least second generation Irish Americans.
In the 1860's, there had yet been no major immigration of Italians, and most Italian immigrants at the time were skilled craftsmen as stone masons and woodcarvers (for example) As such, they were not unwelcome and not really in competition for the lowest paying jobs. The massive influx of poor, uneducated Italians would come decades later.
Oh wow this is so interesting!! Thank you so much for the context and information!!
As Australia was colonised by the UK, Irish people have had a fairly different history here than the USA!
@@MovieJoobthe US was colonized by the UK as well. Also, Irish immigrants faced the same, if not harsher mistreatment in Australia than they did in the US. Until about the 1960s, Catholic Irish Australians were often barred from employment and were seen as traitors to the British crown due to their desire for Independence. In 1867, Prince Albert made the first royal visit to Australia and during his stay, the Irish Fenians (basically 1800s version of the IRA) were responsible for multiple bombings as well as several assassination attempts. They actually succeeded in wounding him at the end of his visit, but Prince Albert did survive. Of course, British Australians retaliated on Irish Australians in retribution.
Shaw when he was walking among the black soldiers’ tents was basically saying how he _wanted_ to truly understand his men but he knew he couldn’t because the fraternization rules and etiquette in the army. Officers(in this case Shaw) and their enlisted men(the black soldiers here) could not fraternize meaning they couldn’t just hang out and act all buddy buddy because the army understands that at the end of the day the officers need to be respected as officers not friends.
Ohh was it an actual rule that he couldn’t speak with them! That is so fascinating! Has that changed/lessened over time as in modern times I feel like that’s no longer the case!
I understand the need for strict hierarchy especially amongst soldiers but I thought simply talking to them wouldn’t interfere with that hierarchy!
@@MovieJoob oh no it's stayed that way a lot in the modern military. Having hung around veterans myself for most of my life there's a definite feeling of otherness among The enlisted men (basically anyone who had the rank of private), the non-commissioned officers which are still enlisted men but who lead the squads and help oversee the platoons. (Basically anyone with the rank of corporal, sergeant, first sergeant and so on) And between the officers (lieutenant, Captain, major etc.) The reason it exists is to establish a clear hierarchy and chain of command because you can't have the guy making the decision to possibly send you off to your death hold himself back or hesitate if he knows he's sending his friends out there to die. There's a lot of jokes between and listed men and officers as well. Little funny jabs like NCOs will get mad if you call them an officer by mistake because unlike them they actually work for a living, stuff like that. It's an entire subculture of America that not a lot of people look into. It's the same in any other military as well. I know a lot of the British, Australian and Canadian military subcultures relate more to the American military subculture then they do their own respective cultures in their own country.
@@MovieJoob also, I wasn't that they couldn't speak to them It's just that they couldn't be seen being too friendly with them. They had to keep that distance. It's similar to how a lot of bosses distance themselves from their employees. They have to maintain that sense of respect and if they are too involved they can find it very difficult to make that tough decision to fire the person. Might not be the best example because I do know a lot of businesses that work out better if the boss is more involved with his employees but especially in the military where you have to make the tough decision to send in your men to die You don't want to hesitate if the entire victory is dependent on that split second choice.
@@MovieJoob I was in the Navy and yes, fraternization is still against the rules and the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). It doesn't mean that officers can't have pleasant interactions with their soldiers, but there is a strict delineation in the hierarchy, which is important in training people to respect rank and obey orders. It also helps to prevent prohibited interpersonal relationships and favoritism, and allows officers to make tough decisions as needed for accomplishing missions. Bear in mind that war and basic training (boot camp) are situations where leniency could be dangerous. Since I've never been to war, I can only speak about boot camp, where leaders are supposed to test your resolve and keep their distance so that men and women can learn to bond and overcome hardship as a team. In more relaxed circumstances, you may get more relaxed interactions, but officers are always in charge and separated to a degree.
For Shaw, the movie is largely conveying his lack of first-hand knowledge about black culture and experiences, rather than any personal ego. He's a very good officer.
Denzel Washington is as good as it gets. My absolute favorite Actor.
He is magnetic you just can’t take your eyes off him when he’s in a scene!!
Incredibly talented!!
I remember watching this movie in the movie theater and thinking that I would see a lot of Denzel Washington in the future. He won an Oscar and Golden globe award for best supporting actor. Lee movie also won an Oscar for Best cinematography and multiple other awards.
Man you're not kidding. I view him as one of the best actors of our day.
Flogging/whipping was pretty much still a standard punishment in the American (and most) armies in the mid-19th century, particularly for desertion. It is rendered here more alarming because of the parallels with him having been a slave, but he was, in fact, being treated equally if brutally.
Goof alert - when the troops arrive in South Carolina and are marching along the road and come across the kids, one waves as they pass along, his sleeve falls down and you see he's wearing a digital watch. In that same scene if you squint, you can see a line of tourists in the background.
This was a very very different time. It was quite turbulent, to say the least. I thinks it’s best to watch and listen. So much is misunderstood in modern day. Watching a film helps a fraction of a bit, but to truly understand you need to study. Do not compare to modern times. Thats a mistake many people make.
When the movie ended I went to the washroom and hid in a stall. I cried my heart out, sobbing like a child. The scene where Shaw was on the beach, trying to prepare himself for what he had to do, letting his horse go…I cry everytime. I was crying with you.
It was so incredibly sad!! It ended so hopelessly yet that is the true story! 💔
So upsetting but so well done!!
I taught US history for 15 years in Massachusetts, USA, when we got to the civil war in our time line, we would study the 54th and I would use excerpts from this film as teaching tools. Thanks for the heartfelt reaction and response.
Ken
👊🏻
Oh wow that is so cool!! The 54th is such an incredible story to learn from!!
Thank you for joining me Ken!! 🙌
@@MovieJoob my pleasure I enjoy your content, I really liked your Rocky journey. Keep going
A flogging is a much lesser penalty than death which they could have ordered. It looks rough and is but it has nothing to do with skin color. it was Military Justice. A white soldier would also have been flogged for desertion, put to death if at war. It was just the laws back then.
The French were our allies during the revolutionary war 😁
I can see why she made the mistake not being American. I know she saw the Patriot and it made reference to the French and Indian war.
The price of FREEDOM has always been and ever shall be BLOOD. No one is given freedom. It must be taken by BRAVE MEN willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. Never allow any government to take away your rights. If you do, your MEN will have to pay to get it back. ✝️
One also has to recognize when their freedoms are taken away, rather than ignoring them because of the smokescreen of another freedom being used against you.
"interesting how they're comparing it to the revolution against the British and French."
Um, no. The French SUPPORTED America against the British in the Revolutionary War. French and British were ancient enemies and to both, the American revolution was just a small part of the Napoleonic Wars between Britain and France.
And in the Civil War, the French stayed neutral, but still friendly with America, having long been allies. Although the South also had many supporters in France, as well. Thus the official neutrality of France.
There was no "revolution against the French." Not in North America, at least. Certainly not in the American Civil War.
"We all hate the French." Well, no, the French were our ALLIES against the British (eventually) in the Revolutionary War and thus both countries, for a while, loved each other. Both had revolutions and were for "liberty!" and equality. Theoretically, at least.
The vast majority of Irish-Americans at the time were those who fled from Ireland during the Great Famine. In 1863, the Irish communities in the north became a particular targeted demographic that was subject to drafts for the Union Army. New York City was a great example of this anger from the Irish, especially since their free-black neighbors were exempted from the draft and were actually faring better economically than the average Irish immigrant. In July 13, New York City erupted with the infamous Draft Riots which resulted with Irish mobs attacking homes and businesses of black Americans and abolitionists. The reason was because in order to get out of the draft, you’d have to pay a fine of $300. At the time, the average Irish working man was making no more than $1 a day and as I said before, black Americans in New York at the time were exempted from the draft and were economically more established.
Such an unfortunate, preventable & sad part of our nations history, so much ugly on both sides that caused this. This film is one of the best that covers a piece of it. Great reaction…you have such a beautiful soul, thank you for your empathy, compassion & genuinely good heart. [yes, so many lives lost in the wars of the modern age…the saga of man]
Wow. I've seen this movie, but when you reacted to Thomas getting killed, it moved me, I can tell he was one of your favorites.
16:45 no, he's literally showing them that each soldier, no matter white or black, is treated equally for their faults, especially desertion. If he didn't commence with the whipping, desertion would've gone unpunished.
And stop crying finally 😅
Moreover, the other penalty Massachusetts troops would have faced for desertion aside from flogging was execution.
I had never heard of that punishment for white soldiers that is so interesting!
As I said at the beginning I am Australian so please excuse any misunderstandings I didn’t get taught what you all did growing up in the US
And also no I will never stop crying 🫶
@@MovieJoob I mean I'm polish so pretty far from the US as well 😄
I'd also recommend gettysburg and its prequel gods and generals. Both are very long movies but worth a watch
The flogging scene was painful to watch, given what slaves had endured, but it had nothing to with race. It was standard practice, and deserters were usually executed. Shaw treated these men as any other soldiers. In 1950 The Uniform Military Code of Justice set forth numerous rights and disciplinary procedures. The last military execution was 1961.
That was my ignorance then, I didn’t know that was the punishment for all deserter soldiers!!
Thank you for the context and information!!
@@MovieJoob - It was a crazy time. We love watching your experience (in this case, history). Keep up the good stuff. 🙂
Fun fact, the man trip is based off actually survived his wounds and was one of the first colored man to give the the medal honor when he's was in his late 60's i believe
Omg that’s incredible I’m so glad he survived!!
And got a medal of honour that is so beautiful!!
I think Morgan Freeman's character is a stand-in for that historical person.
@@eXcommunicate1979 that could be true but since Tripp is the one who did the whole flag charge like the real life man I would attribute the likeness to him but maybe I'm mixing up the story its been awhile since I did research on it
Morgan Freeman's character Rawlins was loosely based on Medal of Honor recipient Sgt William H. Carney.
Never apologize for showing your emotions. This movie is very powerful.
This is the best film ever made about the American Civil War. It's an emotional and action packed powerhouse and the musical score is top notch. Thank you for reacting to it.
Gettysburg is my favorite Civil War movie. Imo, what reduces Glory a half star is the narrative spoken from Shaw's perspective as a privileged man.
@@token1371 I love Gettysburg. It's a fantastic movie. I respect your opinion on Glory. In my opinion, I thought Matthew Broadrick was great in Glory because he had a solid story arc. He was a privileged man that grew as a leader and as a man.
It was brilliantly done I’m so glad I watched it!!
Thank you for joining me on this journey!!
@@token1371 Gettysburg drops the traditional narrative structure in favor of primarily telling just the historical events. Which is totally fair, of course. It just makes the film a little less accessible to general audiences. You need definable narrative structure with specific characters involved. Not saying Gettysburg didn't have any, mind you, just that its something many historical movies miss (like Tora, Tora, Tora) and others overcompensate for (like The Patriot).
Glory may work better as a "movie", but Gettysburg also fills in some important blanks from the historical context. For my money, neither is better or worse than the other.
If you wish to learn more about the Civil War, Lincoln, Lost Cause myth and Southern strategy, watch the "checkmate lincolnites" series. Humorous and informative, and pretty quick to get through.
Don’t waste your time, she just wants to watch tv and get paid.
Love me in the comments too
If you want to learn more about black issues in the UK (and Ireland) I strongly recommend you watch/react to the movie Amazing Grace (2006). That would be an excellent start, and perfect for your channel.
Cheers
Ah thank you so much for suggesting based on my comments!! I appreciate that so very much!
6:51 My question is, what do the French have to do with anything?
The 54th was not the first or only Black unit during the Civil war. It is a sad note that the actual members of the 54th was not portrayed in this movie. The only real person was Robert Shaw. Many of the volunteers came from abolitionist families, both white and black. One of the actual heroes in the Battle of Fort Wagner was Sgt. William Carney who kept the flag from touching the ground as the first bearer fell, then proceeded to carry the flag up to the enemy ramparts and back. He was eventually awarded the Medal of Honor for his heroism. Both Charles and Lewis Douglas (sons of Fredrick Douglas) joined the 54th in April, 1863. Lewis was a Master Sgt. and participated in the attack on Fort Wagner.
I love the movie, but in my opinion it missed a golden opportunity to be listed with the historically accurate great movies like NAPOLEON (1970s), TORA, TORA, TORA, MIDWAY, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, & HACKSAW RIDGE plus a bunch of other great historical classics.
Oh wow thank you so much for giving some information about some of the actual soldiers that is so fascinating!!
You should watch Gettysburg
16:20 I dont understand this. He would have gotten flogged if he were a white soldier as well. Said it right here 16:10. Rules are rules. I was more surprised he wasnt shot when watching the movie.
I didn’t know that 😭
I am but a mere Australian pls I didn’t know about the flogging rules in 1800s USA 😭
@@MovieJoobPlease don’t allow these want to be historian distraction you. They seem to be very revisionist.
10:40 The decree was made by the Confederate Congress (whose soldiers these men would be fighting) not the US Congress. It was meant by the enemy as a direct threat to dissuade the black soldiers and white officers from participating in combat units.
But how did it get through, the president didn’t have to sign off on it? (Pardon my ignorance we only have a prime minister here and not a president so I don’t know where their power differs from congress/senate fully)
@@MovieJoob. The congress that made this decree was the legislature of the Confederate States of America (C.S.A) or South, not the US Congress of the North. During the Civil War, the South (C.S.A.) had its own executive, legislative, and judicial branches. The CSA Congress was making its own laws for the Confederacy. That's why they would write laws against the black soldiers and the white officers that might lead them. The President of the Confederacy (Jefferson Davis) would have most likely signed off on the decree. I hope that makes it more clear.
@@MovieJoobAs the person above said, the Confederate States of America was the group which seceded from the United States, thus causing the American Civil War. While slavery was a large factor in the South’s decision to secede, they were generally trying to preserve their own states’ rights and way of life which may have conflicted with those of the North and many of the nation’s most powerful politicians.
Interestingly, as you mentioned the relationship of England and America during this time, the Confederates and English were quite friendly with one another. England even attempted to send many supplies and resources to them throughout the war. Though, much of that was stopped by a long-looming Union blockade of Southern ports. Many of the firearms, for example, used by the South in the war were purchased from England.
@@MovieJoob It was the CSA (i.e. "The South) that issued that decree. Lincoln announced it to the Union Army to let them know of the dangers they faced (execution). That's why Shaw tells his soldiers and his officer friend about and it and says he won't stand in the way if they opt out. Watch the scene again and it will make sense.
Most have already said it well enough. During those few years, there were effectively two separate nations within the borders of the American States. The Union and the Confederacy.
If it makes it easier to understand, think of the Union as Great Britain and the Confederacy as France. And so, what happens to French soldiers captured in British territory, conversely what happens to British soldiers captured in French territory?
Reaction Pearl Harbor please!
The Civil War, where Brothers fought brothers. Yeah it was ugly.
@16:00 What are you talking about? Shaw has been treating his soldiers the same as any white soldier. *Don’t misconstrue harshness in training to ready your men for battle for harshness of racism.* Shaw had seen battle firsthand, these black soldiers hadn’t. He was strengthening them up so they wouldn’t seize up during a fight and get themselves killed. He was a great leader.
As I said at the beginning pls forgive me for anything I misunderstand I am but a simple Australian who was never taught about 1800s America in detail and thus I had no idea flogging was done to white soldiers too only what I knew about slavery and how it was done to enslaved people!!
Calm down OP
Don't feel bad, it was Great Britian that finally ended the Transatlantic Slave Trade. Blacks have volunteered and fought heroically in every war the US has been in. They've done this to prove themselves and fight for the ideals America stands for. I honor their service as well as all those fought under our flag even when our politicians treated them shamefully. Here I'm thinking of the Japanese Americans who were the most decorated unit of WW2 even though their families were being interned in camps losing their businesses and their homes.
Great Britain “ended” their involvement in the TST but the trade continued.
@@Bea-Dubya The Brits sent out ships to stop the Transatlantic Slave trade. They didn't stop it completely just like cops can't stop crime completely.
So you know, Shaw was suppose to kill Trip. Flogging wasn’t anything nice, but at that time, it was better than killing him “depending who you ask”. Too bad he didn’t know the truth until after he had him flogged. But that’s how the story goes. Great movie and performances!
"Did Americans like British people at this point?" This might not answer your question exactly, but - when Ambraham Lincoln was assassinated, he had been watching a touring production of "Our American Cousin," a British play about a boorish American who goes to England to claim his inheritance. The tour starred famous British actress Laura Keene. Apparently, Keene got some of Lincoln's blood on her dress when she held his head in her lap.
Of course, during the Civil War, both Britain and France were on bad terms with America. The British sent forces to Canada and weapons to arm their militias, and Lincoln said "One war at a time" and gave into a British demand. After the war, the US threatened to invade Canada if Britain didn't pay reparations, which they did. The US then for a time turned a blind eye to Irish fenians invading Canada drom the US side of the border. The US also sent the army to the border of Mexico and demanded French occupation forces see themselves out, which they did.
@@Robertz1986 Yeah, but that's all big picture national political stuff. I just suspect Americans had no particular animosity to British people back then. I also suspect Americans in general have no animosity towards Russians these days either. But I have sources for any of that.
In this movie I really hated seeing the 54th lose to a bunch of schmucks in gray and a Confederate flag in the air.
Flogging for desertion applied to white troops as well. Its not a racial issue.
Ahh I had no idea! Thank you for the information!!
This stands as a great HOLLYWOOD achievement. A momentous time in AMERICAN HISTORY.. Morgan freeman is incredible and moving.
As a descendant of freed slaves I don’t see the losses the 54th suffered as being a terrible thing. They were willing to put their lives on the line to ensure their and future generations freedom. For that, they are forever heroes and my only wish is that I could fight beside them.
The opening battle they show is the Battle of Antietam which took place near Sharpsburg Maryland in September of 1862. To this day is still the bloodiest day in American history. Long story short The South sent an army to the north of Washington DC to try to draw out the union army and they attacked the Southern Army when they had split their forces. The reason why it's called the battle of Antietam for the Union is that they cross the Antietam Creek. 90,000 Union troops faced off against 60,000 Confederates and the Union gradually push them back throughout the day at places like the dunker Church, bloody Lane and the Miller cornfield. Having walked those areas myself at surreal to see a wide open field and think that hundreds of men died here and this small field alone and look over at the next field and say the exact same thing. The only reason the battle wasn't an overwhelming union victory was because the general of the Union Army George B McClellan was to overly cautious and didn't pursue The Confederate Army under Robert E Lee. Another thing that saved the Confederate army that day was general AP Hill's light division being forced marched to cover the retreat of the Confederate Army back across the river to the south. I like how they don't really show the entirety of the battle just to have that big moment where Shaw sees the devastation.
About the 54th Massachusetts they were actually a part of the 10th Corps of the Union Army that invaded South Carolina during the war and having seen the places that they fought in like fort Wagner and the defenses of Charleston like fort Moultrie and fort Sumter in the bay You can tell just what they would have gone through during the attack. A lot of people even in the US are really unaware of certain theaters in the Civil War. The major conflict that happened was in between the states of Pennsylvania Maryland and Virginia where the main battles of the war occurred. They had the western theater out in Tennessee, Kentucky and Arkansas but not too many people know about the coastal battles that happened. Some people do know about the Battle of Vicksburg in Missouri but beyond that battle they don't know too much. I like how this movie accurately portrays the combat too. It doesn't shy away from showing just how devastating the rounds are. I think showing it entirely accurately would take a lot of time and money but they do a pretty decent job with showing the injuries in the legitimate reactions of people in battle.
Nice description of Antietam - I live about 30-40 minutes away.
@@markpekrul4393 I had family on both sides of the battle. I live out in Arizona so civil war battlefields were an interest to me but when I saw Sharpsburg I fell in love. Rural Maryland and Virginia are really beautiful for me.
A lot of US history packed into this movie. Don't worry, a lot of Americans couldn't tell you much about the Civil War (unfortunately). The point about Irish not liking African Americans has to do more with the fact that they were also discriminated against in America, and were competing for jobs with Black Americans. Of course, there was probably an element of racism, but that's always going to the case, too.
POST modern sensibilities, which includes most living today, can’t relate, nor understand this culture, and appreciate the honorable struggle, whether black or white, captain or private, slave or free. Real & genuine ppl fought this battle, on all sides.
Amazing performances by everyone, the music is amazing. Kevin Jarre wrote this and Tombstone, he is the "Give Em Jell 54th" guy
There was a lot leading up to the civil war slavery being one of the biggest reasons. Ken Burns Civil War is the best source if you want to learn the events leading up to the war and why it happened.
Not only was slavery “one of the biggest” reasons, it is THE reason why the war happened.
@@hangarflying Essentially yes when it comes down to a single answer.
Black Americans have fought in every campaign/war the USA has waged or participated in. And maybe of two ethnic groups to do so.
The wound Thomas gets at the first battle may have gone completely through, missing bones. It would have been an comparatively easy fix, although his shoulder would be weakened.
In the military, there is a need for commanding officers to be separate from the enlisted fighting men. Officers have to order men to their death. You're not likely to do this if they are your friends and familiars. Undue familiarity with thise you command is called fraternization. You may remember when Lieutenant Winters scolded Lieutenant Buck Compton about playing poker with the enlisted mem under him. That wall between officers and enlisted is still there today; not as high a wall as back then, as you had to be upper class to be an officer, especially in European armies like Great Britain. Most militaries still require officers to have a degree from a University.
Others have recommended Ken Burns' documentary, simply entitled "The Civil War." Long, but good. The first couple episodes would give you a foundation to understand the two different cultures that developed, mainly due to climate (that determined what they could grow) and their economies. Much was similar, but enough differences to go to war.
About the flogging: At the urging of New Hampshire Senator John P. Hale, the United States Congress banned flogging on all U.S. ships in September 1850, as part of a then-controversial amendment to a naval appropriations bill. Hale was inspired by Herman Melville's "vivid description of flogging, a brutal staple of 19th century naval discipline." The United States Congress banned flogging on all U.S. ships on 28 September 1850.
Military flogging was abolished in the United States Army on 5 August 1861.
So the director took some literary license here to amp up your emotions. The American Civil War started in April 1861. The first battle depicted, Antietam, occured in September 1862, after the practice had stopped.
The sergeant-major who trained them would have been an Irish immigrant. Britain itself was leaning towards supporting the Confederacy, but abolitionist sentiment in Britain prevented them from doing so.
Others have pointed out that flogging was a common punishment at the time in armies around the world (including the British navy) but was being phased out. That does not change the power of the scene. OR the fact that Denzel's character would have no idea that it was common and would have felt just like he was back in slavery.
Powerful movie and fairly accurate.
There is a flogging scene in Master and Commander about the British navy during the Napoleonic wars. It is another movie you should see if you have not. VERY underrated.
Another movie where you can see the unfair treatment of blacks (particularly black women) in the US is Hidden Figures, based in the 1960s. EXCELLENT movie.
For a cheerful film starring Cary Elwes who was in Glory, I don't know if you've seen "Princess Bride".
Not sure if you know, Abolitionists were against slavery and wanted it abolished.
Did Americans like British people at this point? That would be complicated. English British... sure. Irish... not as much.
Another part of what is so stupid about the Civil War is, so many of those fighting for the Confederacy, didn't have slaves. They were fighting and dying for rich people to have slaves.
Meaning. One of my cousins was killed by a Union sharpshooter at that first battle, Antietam. 23,000 killed or wounded in one day. Normandy was less than that. Ancestors who fought in both armies and lived (POW) or I wouldn't be here. Irish were immigrants fighting on both sides. Now do Gettysburg ;-)
The scene with Sgt Mulcahy is about military discipline. The military tears apart independent citizens & creates a unified fighting force. The sergeant could be any race & either gender, they would still treat Thomas the same way.
The US had torn itself apart into 2 nations: the United States of America and the Confederate States of America. The CSA consists of massive farms worked by Blacks, whom they breed like cattle or horses. The CSA believes that Blacks are meant to be slaves, so issued the decree about Blacks in Union uniform, or white officers thereof.
The officer who called the Blacks "llittle monkey children" is from a state that had slaves, but didn't secceed. He has slaves back home. He doesn't see them as equal.
you asked about the Irish vs black folks. Ireland did not have enough black folks to be any issue. the issue per the Irish in Ireland was the British's 600 yr of colonization. since 1997 "the troubles" are a memory - not thanks to Brexit, which may force a return to "the Troubles" - we shall see on that one (I personally think Brexit put the final nail in the coffin of Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom, and forced the inevitable anexation of Northern Ireland into the rest of Ireland (Republic of Ireland) - via nation vote (per the 1997 peace accords - which allows for the unification of Northern Ireland into the rest of Ireland if the Northern Ireland folks wish it - and today it's 50/50 - in 5-10 yr it will be 60/40 imo).
per the Civil War - there is a lot of "national propoganda" - as a kid I was taught the Lincoln fought the war to free the slaves. As an adult I learn of real history and not that written by and promoted by the victors (the "North' "Union" - the gov today that now teaches young kids about "history").
1. Lincoln did not care about the slaves, all he cared about was denying the right of any State to leave the Union - claiming to leave was illegal. That claim is bogus, there is nothing in the Constitution that denies any State to leave the Union.
2. West Virginia (which did not exist prior to the Civil war) suceeded from the State of Virginia - i.e. a part of Virginia left the rest of Virginia to form the new State of West Virginia!!! - and that was illegal according to Lincoln!!!! who denied the right of any state to leave the federal United States - so leaving a State to form a new State "should" also be illegal - according to Lincoln. However Lincoln as ok with it! - so utter hypocrisy.
3. two Union States - Maryland and Delaware had legal slavery prior and during the Civil War - the Emancipation Proclaimation (nice words and idea and all - free all slaves/etc) - only applied to the States that suceeded from the Union - so for 2 yr after that proclaimation, thousands of slaves in Delaware and Maryland were still slaves when the Civil war was fought.
4. Slavery was fastly becoming uneconomical. I was taught as a kid by my goverment that it was a moral war to free the slaves, but in fact it was a politcal one to deny the fight to leave the union. Lincoln was all about deny the right to leave the union and did not care about slavery one way or the other. In fact if we could have just kicked the ball down the field for another 20 years (allowed slavery for another 20 years). it would have ended due to it by uneconomical (and millions of soldiers would not have died over an aviodable war).
5. the last Nation to have slavery was Brazil in 1889. they did not have a civil war to end it, it just ended via a decree via princess "so and so" (forget her name - Portugese monarch)
6. Lincoln suspended the courts in the State of Maryland and hanged many via fiat, without due process of law. (I'm no fan of Lincoln).
7. The South (South Carolina) - blew any "right to leave the union" when they fired on Fort Sumpter (a Federal Fort on an small island just off the coast of Charleston Carolina). The South left the Union 5 months prior, and the federal fort was being resupplied by ship - so they shot at the fort (hot headed so forieted the peaceful right to leave the union). what they should have done was ignore the re-supply and just carried on with forming their confederacy - fort or no fort. but they fired the first shot and so got what came to them IMO.
2 cents
Just so that you understand, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation only "freed" slaves in the Confederate States. It did not apply to slaves still held in the Union, Union-controlled Territories (not yet States), or by Indian tribes in the jurisdiction of the United States (yes, American Indian tribes owned Black slaves).
There were also free Black men in the Confederate Army (using the terms "Negro" or "Colored" at the time). Louisiana had an entire Regiment of free Blacks from the city of New Orleans. In Louisiana, much of the slave trading (buying and reselling as a business, rather than owning for labor) was done by free Blacks.
As for why men volunteered for the Union Army if they were prejudiced, many were fighting to preserve the United States as a country rather than allow it to be divided into separate countries and did not care one way or the other about the existence of slavery. Others wanted to free the slaves not because of beliefs in humanitarian or equality causes but because they saw slavery as a source of cheap labor which competed with their ability to get jobs and earn a living for their families.
As for the Irish, there were *no* historical relations between Blacks and Irish because there were no people of sub-Saharan African descent in Ireland in the early to mid 1800's. The term "Black Irish" refers to Irish people who have very dark brown or black hair and a complexion darker than usual for the Irish, apocryphally (and probably incorrectly) attributed to descent from shipwrecked Spanish survivors of the Armada of 1688. There were large numbers of Irish immigrants and children of Irish immigrants fighting for both the Union and Confederacy. There are surviving all-green regimental flags with golden harps, representing regiments entirely made up of ethnic Irish from both the Union and Confederate armies. Both sides each also had an "Irish Brigade", consisting entirely of all-Irish regiments (3-4 per brigade).
Let's be honest.... without first the British, then Americans, then Australians, then the South Africa Dutch, would we still have slavery, today?
When I saw this movie it turned my stomach at the disrespectful way the 54th was portrayed. It didn't consist of dummies, fieldhands and runaway slaves. Governor Andrews insisted they all be freed men of color from the North. There were so many volunteers that the 55th was also formed.
The confrontation with the Quartermaster never happened. Governor Andrews spent his own money to purchase uniforms and equipment before the 54th even started training.
The raid on Darien, Georgia happened, but not as depicted. The town was completely empty when the 54th Massachusetts and 2nd South Carolina arrived. There were no women in houses. Although Shaw did find the burning of Darien to be unnecessary, Shaw spoke highly of Col Montgomery (Gen Hunter was relieved of his command afterwards).
The worst atrocity was the depiction of the flogging of Denziels character. There is no record during the Civil War of ANY USCT (United States Colored Troops) ever being flogged.
This is an amazing film and I believe it should be mandatory viewing for everyone. It is also one of the more historically accurate movies based on actual events that Hollywood has produced. There are some inaccuracies as with most movies, but most are done for the narrative of the movie. Here are a few that I'm aware of:
1) I've noticed a few others have said this but while flogging was a punishment in the US military for a time the practice was banned in 1861 a year before the 54th had formed, so that wouldn't have happened. If Shaw had ordered that he would've been at the very least dishonorably discharged from the army.
2) The 54th wasn't denied provisions like shoes and socks like depicted in the movie. The governor of Massachusetts was a major reason that the 54th was even created, and so he would've made sure that they got everything that they could possibly need.
3) Shaw was the one who convinced his men to boycott the payroll when he found out they were going to be under paid. (Side note: When they and other black soldiers were eventually given equal pay the government also paid them the money owed from when they weren't being paid equally. So, for example if you were in the army 12 months getting paid $10 instead of the $13 you would've been owed $36 dollars for the year. They paid them the money owed.)
4) This is omitted but William Harvey Carney became the first black soldier to be a Medal of Honor winner for his actions during the attack on Ft. Wagner. The Medal of Honor is the highest award a US soldier can receive.
5) Around 75% of the regiment were free black men from the north and only around 25% were former slaves.
6) Shaw actually took several days before he accepted the command of the 54th and had serious doubts about accepting the promotion.
We damn near went to war with Canada... again... over the war. Britain actually forced Lincoln to back down. We also had a series of border conflicts with Britain in the West.
Irish immigration was at its peak at this time, and the loss of southern cotton was SERIOUSLY hurting the Empire. They hadn't yet established industrial production in Egypt and India, and relied on our cotton like the rest of Europe did. Russia backed us with unnoficial naval support,and they were basically enemies of the UK. Britain and France came damn close to recognizing the Confederacy, although that possibility was pretty much put to bed with the publication of the Emancipation Declaration. So yea, relations with Britain were very very delicate at this time.
Another American Civil War movie I highly recommend is the movie Gettysburg from 1993. Another one of the more historically accurate movies that Hollywood has made, it centers around the bloodiest and possibly most important battle of the American Civil War. It took place on July 1st, 2nd and 3rd of 1863, so this year is the 160th anniversary of that battle. So, it could be a good movie to react to this year.
Slavery existed primarily in the southern states. The U.S. govt and president Lincoln wanted to abolish slavery in all states. So the South broke from the U.S. and formed the Confederacy and then fought against the abolitionist states of the Union/North. It's a little confusing in your edit but Shaw was reading to his men that the Confederate Congress, the govt of the rebel South, issued a proclamation that any black Union soldiers that it captured would be returned to slavery and their white officers executed.
Ohh I see so it was a rule within the southern states but not the Union states!?
That is still extremely scary as they were all fighting in the south and not in the union states oh gosh!
@@MovieJoob Right because the South had no black units in its army.
He wasn't necessarily a radical on the idea of abolition. If he could save the union without abolishing slavery he said he was willing to do that but considering just how in favor of slavery a lot of the administrations before Lincoln were I could see how he was seen as a radical. I know for a fact that William Seward was even more hardcore on abolition but he was more politically astute. That's why Lincoln is so interesting because he wasn't as radical but he wanted to make big changes at the proper time and could surprise people.
@@MovieJoob they're actually was some fighting in the northern states. The Southern Army went as far north as Gettysburg Pennsylvania which is actually a ways north of Washington DC. I believe the date was July 1863 when this happened and it was basically the battle that broke the Confederacy. Ever since then they were on the defensive and they never quite recovered from it.
16:43 I do NOT get it! So if you've got scars IT does NOT hurt anymore, blondie?
EDIT: OH! ..about Melanin.
Those cannons weren't at point blank, they weren't even at short range. At those ranges, the cannons would be firing "canister" instead of cannon balls. Canister is like firing a REALLY big shotgun, and it's even worse than that sounds.
Both Antietam and Gettysburg were battles fought when the southern army came north trying to prove their importance to countries that might step in an help.
The south was especially looking toward England for help as they were dependent on southern cotton. Part of the reason that England stayed out of the war was that it was fought over slavery and England had outlawed slavery in 1834 (27 years before the start of the Civil War. England also had boats blockading major slave ports in west Africa.
Without foreign intervention on behalf of the South, they could not have won that war, just as without France and Spain's help in the Revolutionary war, the USA could not have beat England.
Most historians would called Antietam a tactical draw, as nobody won any ground and losses of men an material were pretty even. But it was also a strategic win, as it ended the Confederate ambitions of fighting in the north (for at least a while). They would try it again, a year later and this led to their great defeat at Gettysburg.
Civil War wounds: based on the nature of the rounds (bullets) used in the Civil War getting shot in the bone of an arm or leg, means that an inch of bone or more is just gone and amputation was sadly needed at that point. I remember that one of the southern states spent 1/5th of it's budget in 1866 (the year after the war) on artificial limbs. So sad.
"So strange how they fought for them (black people) without thinking they are equal". I think it's safer to say that the attitude of northerners towards black men and women was "varied and complicated." The north had outlawed slavery within it's borders by 1804, and although some right minded men and women saw the institution of slavery for the evil it was, many wanted slavery illegal so that slaves (men and women working for free) couldn't take their jobs.
Slavery was still going on in the south of course, and was still part of the conscious of the north. People had grandparents or older parents that kept slaves. In my opinion you can't really whip, beat, rape, murder, work to an early grave (or any of the other unspeakable things done to slaves) if you think of them as equals. If gives you a rude awakening at how dark and evil you really are.
"Did American's like the English". Most of the Americans WERE English. It was an English colony people by primarily English people.
The statement that black men with guns would be enslaved, and black men wearing the uniform would be shot came from the Confederate states, IE the enemies of the characters in the movie.
I don't know if you know this, but slavery had been practiced from Canada all the way to Argentina. Until the 1770s, slavery was universal in the Americas. The first jurisdiction to forbid it was the northern states of the US after independence.
Slavery was also common in Africa, where the slaves were sold from, and the Muslim empires traded in slaves from all over. Whites, blacks, and so forth, sold on the Middle Eastern markets. Even the native tribes utilized slavery, including black slavery.
The US has no special connection to slavery, something that is often lost in the telling of history.
Denzel's acting in this movie was absolutely wonderful.
A lot of what is depicted in the movie is very accurate of the time. Charges of desertion were usually punished by either flogging, branding, or death by firing squad. There was no such thing as a dishonorable discharge in the sense of what it is today. If you ever have a chance to watch Gettysburg or Gods and Generals, they show 2 other instances of desertion and refusal to fight and the punishment for each are shown or noted.
Regarding Sargeant Mulchahey, there were many Irish immigrants that came to the US at that time (Irish Great Famine) and enlistment was a condition of entry/citizenship (for reference, watch Gangs of New York) ironically, there were Irish brigades on both sides but the Union had the majority of servicemen from Ireland.
The 2nd Battle of Fort Wagner is the final battle depicted in the movie. What made this fort so hard to take was due to its proximity to the ocean, the marshlands towards the inland, and the high walls and extended parapet between the wall and the interior. The significance of this was the notariety the 54th Massachusetts received from the higher command and Lincoln, which prompted additional enlistments of Black soldiers.
I recommend watching Gettysburg next as that movie, while heavily Union centric, does do a wonderful job of showing both Union and Confederate sides. Gods and Generals, while made after Gettysburg, is the prequel, and while also good, does not live up to what the expectations were. Hence why Last Full Measure was never made into a movie. For book reference, you'll want to read the novels by Michael Shaara. The 3 books combined are wonderful pieces of work.
It's interesting that you'd think Forbes confronted Shaw with "reality". No, Forbes was the worse officer by far and altogether wrong. Military training and hierarchy are that way for good reason, which Forbes completely failed to understand. He went so far that Shaw could've even had him court-martialed. Nothing that Shaw did had anything to do with his ego. Quite the contrary, actually. It was Cabot who needed to change, not Shaw.
But that's okay. The bad thing about TH-cam reactions is that your first reaction gets frozen in time, with all misunderstandings, misconceptions and lack of information. We all got some movies wrong the first time around.
I am not a fan of the system, in place at the time, of picking officers by the whim of whoever raised the unit. Some appointed friends, some "sold" commissions and some units held elections. This resulted in leadership that was often not qualified. Col Shaw was such an example but he also strove to do everything he could to improve himself and his command. There were and are today regulations about fraternizing between the ranks. Ultimately, the commander has to spend the lives of his command. He must do so both effectively and as frugally as possible. Preparing the troops to deal with harshness was a kindness, not a cruelty. Imagine having to send your childhood friend into the face of the guns. Imagine too trying to protect your friends and favorites by giving them the easy or safer duties. Such behavior can destroy the unit and the men being protected. Even if it were not true, how do you think the other troops would react to Thomas if they thought, rightly or wrongly, he was being coddled? No. I do not know the historicity of this portrayal of Shaw but I do perceive it as someone doing the best he is able for his troops and for the cause he fights for. I see him as an admirable character who makes mistakes but tries to minimize those mistakes wherever possible.
The civil war was fought using napoleonic tactics (march within 50 yards to be accurate) but the weapons had advanced 70 years (and were way more accurate)
If you want a movie that will open your eyes in terms of modern US race relations, I would give Spike Lee’s “Do The Right Thing”. Good spring/summer movie too.
When the southern slave states succeeded from the USA three slave states remained. Delaware, Kentucky and Maryland. The western portion of Virginia did not want to join the Confederate States of America, so President Lincoln allowed them to join the Union the slave State West Virginia. Lincoln didn't have the authority to abolish slavery but as President he could make the Emancipation Proclamation announcing hence forth escaped slaves would no longer be returned to the slave states they came from but would be considered Freed Men. They were not granted citizenship but were allowed to join the Union army. At the end of the war all slaves in the Confederacy were free but the slaves in the North were not free until December 1865 with the passing of the 13th amen to the Constitution abolishing slavery.
At the same time, the battle of Gettysburg was fought in the north in Pennsylvania... that was the apex of Confederate power. You might want to watch the film "Gettysburg."
5:18 Two of Fredrick Douglass' (the man speaking here) sons enlisted in the 54th. One of whom was promoted to the same rank as Morgan Freeman's character was in this movie. I believe they both survived the war.
I see quite a few comments about her ignorance of U S history. I'm an American and I wonder if I watched an Australian move about their history how many ignorant mistakes I would make. Might be good to try to look at things from another perspective.
Slavery was the largest economy in the world at the time. Aside from racism itself in terms of white-superiority, it was big business in the confederacy. However, Lincoln wanted a greater country in terms of “all working in unison can provide more output”, however, Lincoln didn’t really care about the slaves in terms of equality. He just simply didn’t see the point of slavery and the African slave trade, and knew it was just a bad for business idea. Hence why he said let the blacks fight in separated regime mines from whites.
Irish....its even hard to say, how hard and long, they were treated as less than slaves. As garbage, as kill if they run..for 500 years. Even here in America, they were treated as less than slaves. But their soldiers, and leaders, were respected. But for 500 years, how they were treated in Britain, north and south Africa, was something, that isn't discussed in schools. Specially because Africans treated Irish, so horrific!
Irish people who moved to the U.S. around the time depicted here tended to have a negative attitude towards Black people. That's partly, or mostly, because in Northern states without slavery, Black people and Irish immigrants were both disadvantaged and poor, and in competition for scarce resources, like jobs. And a lot of Irish people in Northern cities resented being sent to war to free Black people. So in a way, the Irish drill instructor starts out with fairly predictable racist habits, but ends up actually being pretty fair with the Black soldiers, all things considered.
It's like how long until you tell your manager this job sucks? Joke's
Also, the dudes involved were kinda maybe probably likely could've been less stupid?
U-571 is a movie about submarines in WW2. Don't know if I'd recommend it for a reaction, because there are SO many awesome war movies. But a major theme is an officer who couldn't help becoming friends with his enlisted sailors. And, at one point, he needs one of them to die, in order to save the ship and the entire European war effort.
France and Britian were supporting the Confederacy because of trade purposes unfortunately
Very Good work . I had three relatives who fought in the civil war two brothers in the Pennsylvania Artillery and one in the 6th Wisconsin the one from Wisconsin fought at Gettysburg.
Nice work keep it up. God bless you
The flogging scene never happened. Flogging was banned as a form of punishment in the Army in 1860. So sad that the movie includes unnecessary BS while omitting some facts that would have made it great. It gets an B for entertainment only. It fails everywhere else.
The Civil War happened less than a decade after the United States and Great Britain nearly went to war over Oregon. While Americans have always been able to get along with individual Brits, Americans as a group outright hated the British Government and especially British Kings, Queen Victoria got a bit of a pass, but was seen as a puppet by Americans. Colonel Shaw's Father was told that his son was buried with his men, meant as an insult by the Rebels, when asked if he wanted his son exumed and sent home, his father and family said there was no better place for Robert Shaw to be buried.
Flogging was actually a lenient punishment for desertion during wartime at this time. A great number of deserters were simply tekn out and shot dead. Col Shaw could have legally had him shot and no one would have batted an eye. Now that being said, if I were in her placed, I'd not have had a former slave flogged. I probably would have chosen the buck and gag. Other punishments included be hung, but for only like one minute.
Feelings about the British were mixed, The Union citizens probably had some resentment issues with Great Brittan as they help supply the Southern States, especially since they ran the blockades set up in 1861.
I knew this would be a tough watch for you even though it is a great movie. For something with way more levity is Biloxi Blues with Matthew Broderick. Set during WW2 but no blood and guts and very funny.
Flogging, hanging and other punishments were common in pre 20th Century militaries. British and American.
During Sherman's March though Georgia they burned, and wrecked everything they could possibly find in order to demolish the rebel's ability to support their armies. So that Colonel's actions were horrible but they were in keeping with the overall union strategy ordered by general Grant and President Lincoln.
Cold Mountain with Jude Law and Nicole Kidman is another great American Civil War movie.
Thanks for reacting to this.
Our revolution was only against the British, not the British and the French. Indeed, the French came in to the war as our allies. That is a major reason that we won.
The soldier was NOT being flogged because he was black. That was standard disciplinary procedure in every army in the world in those days. Any white soldier committing the same offense would have received the same punishment.
There were no black people in Ireland at that time. Racial animus was something the Irish immigrants picked up from other white people in America. It was, of course, no more universal among them than it was among others.
The scene with the burning of the town may be exaggerated. Although it was typical for Union troops to burn crops,, barns, warehouses, and public buildings, burning houses or whole towns was unusual. The attitude of the other officer toward his men was not unusual though.
I found your tears very moving. Thank you for sharing that.
They would have had very good anesthesia for surgery. They couldn't knock you out, but it wasn't done without any pain killers like children in Gaza.
correct, rarely done to white officers, but more common among the enlisted soldiers. Officers had a better standard of life in the military and a much lower instance of desertion compared to enlisted soldiers. Shaw's other option would have been to have Tipp shot to death. They were at war and desertion has heavily punished. This information can be found in records at the library of congress and the war department. Learned about them in a civil war history class taken at the University of Maryland in the early 2000's, even was able to see a few documents at the national archives located near the university. Remember that this was one of the first black regiments in the Army, so prior to this there were no black soldiers that could be flogged for any reason. So flagging couldn't have been used on blacks more than whites because there simply were no blacks in the military for the punishment to be used on. @buddy3167
Thank you for a beautiful reaction to one of my favorite movies ever! ❤❤❤❤
Thank you so much for joining me!!
I’m so glad you enjoyed ❤❤