The Bizarre Case of Phoebe Handsjuk: Part 3
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Damn, big shout out to Phoebe's ride or die girl friends who where literally forcing themselves down a trash shoot to try and solve her death. Mad respect
Right?!
Seems like she had a pretty good support system and people who loved her. And still love her.
Right?! My new goal is to have friends who love me this much.
@@TheN00bmonster and that shows a lot about her as a person, her spirit, and her character. I can’t imagine how hard this has been on them.
Seriously! My stomach was all twisted watching that!
"I don't think grown men have any business dating teenage girls" yesss someone finally said it!!! Just because it's legal doesn't make it right
@@jenCo2020 14?!?!
Different life stages... it makes no sense to me!!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
@@jenCo2020 The Vatican too
Exactly. The mentality and outlook on life is so different for a teenager compared with an adult. An adult dating a teen is abuse in my opinion. Mainly because they are so impressionable and naive, much less likely to make responsible decisions. I have a 14 year old daughter and she seems like such a child to me still. I might just hurt a grown adult man if he was trying to date her.
Not one, but two dead girlfriends, and both deaths are of the "how tf did this happen" kind. What are the chances, huh.
NO kidding. I'm no gambler but I'd bet it ALL that he ends up with ANOTHER dead girlfriend. Sociopath.
@@alexperkins8433 Wow. Wtf?
@@alexperkins8433 Yeah, I'm just surprised his ex wife didn't "commit suicide"!
@@philliparutter7671 she got away....
Now in the UK and very quiet....
What’s creepy, same for a woman with 2 dead husband, but killing themself , within 2 years of each other in front of her , I would not be able to walk in life or talk or feel life without my heart beat 😢
Phoebes grandfather is awesome. He knew from the get go - asked the right questions, dug up the right evidence, he’s a good man who did right by his grand daughter. Good on ya mate. Good on ya.
Even if this boyfriend Ant isn’t responsible for Phoebe or Bailey’s deaths, he’s still a garbage person (in my opinion). He clearly goes for young women in impulsive and impressionable mental stages, causes them to become completely isolated and dependent on him, facilitates their abuse of alcohol and drugs (his sister literally being a dealer), and cause as much stress and chaos in their lives as possible. I mean seriously, this dude insisted on having a separate fancy funeral for Phoebe that was unrelated to Phoebe’s actual friends and family. Who does that??
He sounds like an abusive person for sure 😐
Agreed. POS
Agreed with the last comment. Some people need to be in control of people, and it's easier to do that with someone with a more fragile mental state, or at least someone young enough to still be a little naive.
@TheDoubleLibra he said that there is no proof.
Just as others said he did drugs.
He said she said at best.
@TheDoubleLibra Her family was also okay with her dating the older teacher.
I'm not saying he was the enabler but I'm also saying based on the information provided we don't know that.
We also only have his word on a lot if issues so it's literally all hearsay.
He was a wealthy club promoter if we are going to jump to conclusions we could also just run with the erectile disfunction without drugs report.
Assume he was an addict and maybe just liked controlling her by giving her what he felt helped control her and didn't want her having free access through the sister.
I don't think that is the case either but there is actually more hearsay to that type of power dynamic than he was just anti drug.
He could have just wanted his young girls looking fresh and clean and not strung out as it would have affected his image.
All interesting theories but theories non the less.
The entire family & their actions just screams rich, connections, cover up, paying off people, sketchiness. He had two girlfriends commit suicide & his sister had a boyfriend commit suicide?? Nah.. Don’t come for me.
😮the sister had a bf commit suicide too?! Wth kind of black widow, cursed relationship, deadly repeated occurrences type family is this?!
no way! omg they totally killed this people
LOL not surprised, seriously 😒
The kind of privileged family that’s stick like a tick to the most powerful, conservative circles in the country. They have their hands on everything, the police, the courts, the government, you name it.....Australia is a really corrupt country in that way, contrary of what people overseas think....😦😔
@@alexandramunoz4551 agreed, they definitely know someone who can pull the strings
The video footage of trying to recreate someone getting into the shoot really seals the deal for me that there's no way she did this to herself.
For the key was that the girl trying was sober. When people are drunk and high on drugs, they can do things most people can't. And then, the lack of discernible fingerprints makes more sense.
Yeah it did me too...that was actually a friend of phoebe's, I saw that on 60 minutes. Theres no way she did that to herself.
I agree
@@hollystiener16 you think a drunk and high person is able to do this, while a sober person couldn't because it's really complicated and needs a lot of coordination and strength? I don't think so..
I’m torn. I feel like drunk women find a way to do some crazy things. Like falling on the ground & just jumping back up like it’s nothing. We feel less pain when inebriated, and are less hesitant, so maybe she just ‘went for it’ in the shoot, vs her friend who was being careful. If that makes sense.
Ant saying "Phoebe chose the way down the trash chute because she thought she was trash" hit me. It seemed incriminating like him explaining why he would have chosen trash chute for her to humiliate her one last time. Even if it was him just assuming something about the way his beloved partner died, one would add something like she was wrong, she didn't realise her worth & etc. But he said what he said full of grudge.
In my workplace we are under a high bridge, in construction we have large waste skips and people have deliberately jumped into the industrial skips.
I heard that and instantly said, "She didn't think she was trash. She knew he thought she was trash." He was an abuser who tried to hold her down. He was angry because it wasn't working anymore.
“A tragic accident.” I can’t count the number of times I’ve accidentally climbed into a trash compactor.
Exactly... Especially after seeing the experiments done by her friends it seems impossible to me that she could have done this accidentally. It sure seems for this to happen it requires a LOT of determination combined with strength and flexibility. So...for me that leaves only 2 possible versions, either it was suicide and she was determined to do it this way and had planned it beforehand maybe even tested it out before or it was foul play aka murder.
So glad somebody said what I was thinking!
I bet you can.... it's just not a very high number.
Right???
Let alone feet first!!
I could see it being an accident if she was drunk, accidentally threw something she needed down it and thought she could get it, but feet first seems downright impossible
People that are in a psychologically abusive relationship often show "signs" of having Borderline Personality Disorder. Take them out of the abusive relationship, and they no longer have these tendencies.
Great point!
Except that she showed these signs for years before her relationship with Ant.
@@AwfulDog1 Academic psychiatrists themselves who make up the constructs nicknamed BPD (a gendered diagnosis) "the wastebasket" where they throw women they don't know what else to do with. I'm sure it's googlable. If they don't take their own constructs seriously why should we?
My daughter has BPD. I love her more than anything, but believe me when I say that she can be very difficult at times. She misinterprets communication often through a negative lens, will identify helpful advice and suggestions as “attempts to control her”, is easily angered by any criticism, reacts angrily when she perceives that someone is abandoning her, even when they are not. It is not easy to have a healthy relationship with someone suffering from BPD. I’m not saying that this is the case with Phoebe but I think it is important to consider that someone who has BPD may not be the most reliable narrator.
@@gwenjackson8583 oh I feel for you. Experts also like to blame 'attachment theory ' or lack of attachment to mother as a child. Some children (little girls) fight against maternal bond from a very early age and are just called 'strong willed' or 'independent '. Keeping young women (our daughters) with BPD safe is almost impossible as they are so strong willed and usually can't be told. We will always love our daughters with BPD and from them we will learn how to be strong independent women ❤
This entire case reeks of a wealthy, connected and privileged family protecting one of it’s own. I pray for justice for both Phoebe and Bailey.
I’m sure Ant’s mom being a judge had nothing to do with his getting away with any of this...
Yup, also him being super rich and full of connections.
Is not like this even keeps happening to this gfs. Nothing to see here 😒
His mom a judge and his father a lawyer?! 🤡🤡🤡 anyone who thinks he DID NOT do this is lying to themselves
My thoughts exactly……
Of course not kerry... how dare you even suggest such a thing.
::::HUUUUUGEEE eye roll::::
@@hadesisbaby YES, F'in RIGHT... SORRY B@ST**D
The fact that you can't even discuss a lot of the stuff shared with you because you could face getting a lawsuit speaks volumes to me. This sounds mega scary. Can only imagine the hell Phoebe had to endure.
Agree, I think this family has or thinks it has power and the $$$ to keep things under control, but the truth always comes out, and it will in these situations that make no sense at all.
And how sad that this family protects their criminal children by paying everyone and 3 partners are dead between the brother and sister and full on cocaine trafficking charge is community service because the family's embarrassment is punishment enough??! So, let everyone else out then because their families are embarrassed too! Please with the rich white "justice". Sick!!
@@alisonwonderlandof1 Agreed; I couldn't believe it. If a dealer's family lived in a poor neighbourhood, would this ever be considered? No, because it's deemed "they're used to it". Nothing screams "us and them" more than this.
@@mobwatch8119 right, the have and the have nots
Yes, because she came from money and “mummy “ was a judge, yep just like so many injustices in Australia it really makes you wonder why some judges rule they way they do at times. I truly believe that people with real money, manage to get away with an awful lot where others get the book thorn at them for the same type of crime...there is NO Justice in Australia!
You're not weird for thinking adult men shouldn't date teenagers! I completely agree with you, and if I had a seventeen year old daughter I would not be at all okay with her dating a 30 year old.
Yeah. Her mom’s excuse that “he loved her and does still” and “he wasn’t her teacher but is a teacher” doesn’t fly with me.
How is that justifying it? It just makes it less bad but stays bad.
I do agree however if the girl wanted to do it behind the parents back they probably would, teens aren't known for following all the rules all the time. Also once they turn 18 you have no say at all in the age of the person they choose to date 🤷
@@nikkids1757 True, but at least at 18, you have more rights and are able to sign a lease, get a credit card, have a full time job, etc. Minors have much less power legally than an adult, and that creates an imbalance.
@@letoofdelos565 In Australia 16 is the age of majority. You are considered an adult, regular schooling is finished tho you can of course continue your education, you can get married, live on your own, get a lease, etc. I still think 30 to 17 is a weird and gross age difference though.
@@jacquimichelle5100 Oh! I didn't know that, thank you! Since Stephanie said Phoebe was still in highschool when they were dating, I assumed Australia had highschool through 18. It's definitely still creepy regardless with that sort of age gap, but at least she is was a legal adult at the time.
This story is so horrible. The way she died, the mental anguish she experienced before her death, the pain when her ankle was injured, the grief of her family... I just want to cry when I think about it. She was so beautiful and so young, with her whole life in front of her. The poor girl.
I agree the horror but if she had been drinking and those pills she took, we can only hope that is would have dulled the experience and the shock would have made death fast. She really sounds like she was manic of sorts, it's terrible she didn't get help for her problems, like I said before she reminds me of Maura Murray and her problems or should we just call them the situations of being young as to not offend or be insensitive. I just think this was a terrible accident like she dropped something and thought she'd go after it or just wondered what it was like to go down the chute, I don't think she would leave her dog on purpose anyway, and I don't think you can stuff someone down the chute without tones of yelling and a fight.
@@christiegroves did you watch the video of the friends trying to climb into the chute? I really don't have any see how anyone would start to do that and go through with it just to grab something they dropped in there by mistake plus it's obvious whatever it is would be dropped down to the bottom. Like Stephanie said even alcohol doesn't make people completely lose all sense
Anyone else find it odd that he insisted on a cremation and became more palatable/ compliant AFTER her body and any evidence on it was destroyed?
Everything about this case is odd. But yeah that was suspicious too
Money talked,his high ranking mates made it disappear. I can only pray that there truly is a fiery burning pit of hell waiting for these vermin after death. God bless Phoebe 💞
I want to know how he got to decide on what happened to her body at all? What about her family? My God, money really does talk in this country... please is there a cold case detective out there who can help?
Antony had access to almost all of her documents & not to mention a psychological hold on Phoebe’s mind, that’s how he was able to become next of kin. & Unfortunately this situation will never be classified as a cold case bc judgment has already been made in court R.I.P Phoebe @@jakdelaney3606
If I was the manager at the apartment building, I would have watched the tapes myself and made a copy, if I knew the tapes would re-record over themselves. Cops really messed this one up !
Same I would want it solved not only for the victim bit for my business as well.
@@nicoleackerman205 EXACTLY!! ☝️
Did they mess it up? Or did they do exactly as much (or as little) as was expected by the powers that be?
@@tamramyers5841 Whether cops believed Ant right away and just were incompetent or because of high authority we probably will never find out ! 🥺
I’m pretty sure some palms were greased, here
Stephanie, you have outdone yourself with this one! You brought Phoebe to life, your interaction with her family gave us great insight into Phoebe's bright spirit, and you spoke with caring and compassion. A million thank you's! You are a shining star!
I agree!! Usually I’m pretty unaffected by the cases of true crime (obviously all sad and angering) but this one really got me.
Was so nice to have you down under, wish it could be for real! This 1 just broke me but!
@@sarahcatherinerowell me too Sarah.. I cried for days over the watts case.. Skylar Neese!'s horrible death.. But this one just kills me..
Jess Carter the watts case I feel like is so shocking because we can all relate to that one… it will never not be horrific and saddening 🥺
The ultimate gaslighting, convincing a mother that your 5 month relationship with her daughter over rides your lifelong bond , to the point you feel guilty and self-conscious about it.
Absolutely disgusting isn’t it
It shows a total lack of empathy, an over powering need for control and towering ego. Massive red flags . Avoiding her family & never being alone with them too, also speaks volumes.
*14 months (very unstable), but still a very valid point
Typical control freak!!
I absolutely love the fact you brought up the latest victim here. The fact that this man has a family full of judges and lawyers screams volumes and the fact of the income flow between him and his entire family. This all needs to be relooked at and taken seriously. To me personally, this is a man who gets rid of women for not being what he envisioned them to be, almost like a grown man throwing a tantrum. He might not have been the one committing these murders but I 1000% believe he is behind them.
This! These young women were disposable to him, hence literally putting her down the trash 😢
And the sister has reams of police and judicial blackmail material.
Something like this just doesnt happen to you twice.
Ant did not even attend Bailee's funeral service (the 2nd girlfriend that ended up dead). Speaks volumes to me! 😧
The thing about Ant's OTHER poor girlfriend.... what's that quote about "if something sounds like too much of a coincidence, it probably isn't"?
As my mom says, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a fuckin duck!"
@@prettylillette1352 your mom sounds pretty cool
Exactly. Not to mention his sister's boyfriend, as unrelated as it might seem, it's too many "suicidal"/dead significant others related to one guy that it's anything less than suspish. Also for a guy who seems to really disapprove (or frankly more likely, looks down on) people who struggle with addiction and are therefore vulnerable to certain things, he can't seem to avoid them.
Does anyone think that maybe they die becuase they know too much.....from his sisters bf to her and the his other ex. seems like maybe they knew too much of the business they where involved in and couldnt be controlled or have them leave them.
Kudos to Phoebe’s friends for demonstrating that she didn’t put herself in that trash shoot. I pray for justice for Phoebe and Bailee. Sending prayers for these beautiful girls families.
No kidding, imagine having to recreate those last minutes knowing they need to be known but just with the sense of what awaited her and that this creep was out here telling a bunch of people she was suicidal.
@@tanekrune5873 my heart breaks for that sweet girl
Am I the only one who panicked during the footage of the rubbish chute experiments when the girl was almost completely in the chute but nobody was making any effort to pull her out... until I realised it wasn't the actually 12-story chute it was a replica with no drop the other side :')
Nope! I did too lmao
No, me too, its literally just like a recurring nightmare I have. Those women are badass.
I definitely wouldn’t fit! My lard ass! X
me too!!
Same
An individual using the sleep medication along with a large amount of alcohol would never have enough coordination to do this to herself.
I mean, the sheer determination needed is difficult to exert sober, let alone when you're a rag doll under the influence...
I have seen people consume a lot of alcohol an never appear to be under the influence.
@@lorimoore5589 so have I, however not a mixture of a large amount of alcohol and pharmaceuticals for sleep.
@@stephanied9629 I think it depends on how long they have been doing that. You could take 1 Xanax everyday for a month an be knocked out but I bet in six months that one Xanax will be ineffective.
I used to take pills an started with one every few days an within three years I would take 10 Percocet 3 times a day, that's 30 percs in a day an with 100% certainty I could pass any sobriety test, walking a straight line, standing on one leg for 15 seconds etc. Now my pupils were pinpoints an there were other indicators that I was a drug user but my agility, balance an strength was not effected at all.
I don't know what happened to Phoebe but her toxicology results aren't enough to make me think she didn't get herself in the chute.
She often drank to inebriation. Her tolerance was high
Ok, so Ants sister had a boyfriend who died from suicide.. Ant's previous girlfriend died from a "suicide" and now Phoebe died.. "accidental or suicide" ... and his sister made that sketchy post about the justice system failing Phoebe & her family.... This is just CRAZY!!!!!!
Right?!
Richest guy you know, has the $bougiest$ apartment in Australia, told her to quit her job, still expects her to pay rent 🙄😒
I thought that was odd, especially when he had the home like she never lived there, I think he wanted a slave but wanted to control her by letting her not have any savings to leave him
Control tactic 101 for sure
A power play to set an expectation that she must pay him, even if he has all the money in the world. If she owes him, she’s dependent on him. “He has let me skip months of rent” “I owe him money that I can’t afford to pay him” “I can’t afford things on my own” and then, therefore “I can’t leave him”
Been there. 😕
Their relationship was very toxic. I don't know what he did that made her keep going back to him.
Controlling. Not the pay rent part alone, the chain reaction, "pay me rent, oh u don't have much money? It's coz your job is rubbish, u should quit. U still need to pay rent. Can't afford it now? That's your fault for quitting your job & also for having a rubbish low paid job"
Or, she was passed out drunk and boyfriend got furious and had the thought, "Well, if you're going to act like trash, go into the trash."
I think you may be on to something there
My thoughts exactly
I thought exactly the same.
simplest explanation is usually right.
Wow now this I can really see happening. Interesting theory. He kept saying how much he was trying to help her through her issues with alcohol and such, but a big part of me doesn't buy that at all. I think her behavior upset him far more than he let on to those around him.
I’ve been rewatching this series the last couple of days & I noticed things I hadn’t before. Was it ever investigated if she could’ve been put down another floors shute? The lack of fingerprints is too odd considering the purpose of the equipment. Also could someone have come in during the fire alarm incident & just stayed inside after? Possibly using the fire escapes for an exit? His sister seems like she could’ve been a suspect also. Two girlfriends dying similar deaths, as in they can’t be fully explained, coupled with the sisters boyfriends death is bizarre to say the least. Lastly, I would love to here what Derek has to say about this. When you mentioned a detective taking this on I immediately thought of him. This could make a great series for the two of you to collaborate on.
There wasn't no fingerprints at all just no clear ones, they were all smudged but I agree it's still sus. I honestly think Ant should still be the main suspect. Even included his sisters bf. He was a massive control freak and probably even tried to control his sister. Her dealing and using drugs makes me think she's very unhappy in life probably because of a messed up family situation. Her post talking about the law and people representing the law failing pheobe could've meant her mother, father etc. I get the impression she didn't like being part of that family. Take drugs to suppress emotions and deal them as an act of rebelling against her family/parents.
there was blood on the handle of the chute it was mentioned in part 1
I also would like to hear what Derek thinks. I'm going to try and watch or listen to the fall podcast. I'm sure I'll be able to find it. Stephanie mentioned in this video that she spoke with her mother Natalie... I want to know more of her thoughts and truly my deepest condolences to her and the entire family. 🙏 this entire case seems super bizarre and nothing makes sense for many reasons. There's parts that do and there's parts that I fully understand then others I'm just like wait what. Huh?? But I'm glad I'm not the only one who's rewatching this series! I always pick up more each time I watch and listen.
i know stephanie stole this case for this channel but i would happily listen to another 3 part series on crime weekly w dereks take
So I know you wrote this a year ago, however I was reading comments, specifically yours, while she was talking about corrections from the previous vid. She said his friend lived on the 10 th or 11 th floor. Who’s to say she didn’t get put into his?! So frustrating. If they would of just done their jobs ant would be in jail and if I had to guess, the story of the second girlfriends death wouldn’t be. Just my opinion.
No one will ever know what actually happened but my personal opinion is because he couldn't make Phoebe fit in this perfect little box of what he thought his girlfriend should be, he shoved her in to an even smaller box in a last "F You" move. ALLEGEDLY.
----Plus the ‘throwing her away’, to his viewpoint, Phoebe had trashed her own life, he was ‘paying her back’ by ending the drama.
Agreed! Also kinda weird how much judgment he holds for people who have problems with addiction, yet... seems to like to date women who struggle with that very thing... like his sister... allegedly. Idk why some men (like him, allegedly) are so determined to force women into being different people than they actually are. It's not going to happen. And it's all too much "coincidence" for one guy. Two dead gfs. Sister has a dead bf. If all of this really is coincidence you'd probably start wondering why you're always drawn to people like this or why this keeps happening around you? Still don't think it's coincidence tho.
Narcissist's final discard. They often do it in the cruelest, most humiliating and demeaning way they can.
Well said.
You're 100% right that no grown man has any good reason to be involving himself with a teenager, and anyone trying to say otherwise is lying to themselves
Also key point on our age of consent is that at 16 you can consent to people of the same age, *not* someone over 18, so regardless it was still an illegal relationship and definitely shouldn't have been encouraged
Sometimes it can work out but the man certainly has to be rich and the girl wanting a calm live. But I agree, in most cases it's not a good idea. But it doesn't even happen often. Maybe 0.01% of relationships??
Nobody's else's business really.
I was really trying to give Ant the benefit of doubt but once you said he had another girlfriend that had passed i screamed. There is some serious cover up going on over there.
This. Like - had I known this from the get go, I'd never even tried to come up with a version of this story that has him innocent.
You gave her a voice again. It’s like we got a chance to know her and the ending brought me to tears. A shining light someone tried to snuff out but she shined so damn bright that they had no chance on that. God Bless Bless her her family and friends who never stop fighting for the truth.
Homeboy seems to go after vulnerable young women with drug issues that he can manipulate... hmmmm
This
100%
Broke it down in one short sentence.
Exactly
Take a seat Scott Peterson, this guys full of shitte' . When she said "he had to" sleep with ex girlfriends cause he was so traumatized and couldn't sleep alone, immediately makes you think "yea he killed her." .
I feel scared for the life of any detective that takes this on. These people freak me out, they're not normal. My gut is telling me that they have "people" who do their dirty work and ways out of things. All the death surrounding them. To anyone who takes on this case or investigates it, my best wishes go out to you and stay safe. ❤
I really hope there is a detective brave enough to tae on this case. Too many unaswered questions. I agree with you about someone doing the dirty business.
@@sheelahales4738 agree, this gives me the creeps!
Yes. I commented on number 2 about this. The family might have dirt on so many people, being in their line of work....it's not hard to see how they can possibly blackmail people into doing their bidding.
I hope someone takes them down before they kill again.
I kept asking myself "how is Phoebe getting drugs, especially cocaine, if she has no real money of her own"? Andi kept asking myself if Ant was actually supplying her? It's actually not unheard of for a 'gaslifhter' to enable drug addiction in their victim.
Thats a good point. Keep her under control and looking crazy to everyone around her.
@@davidisimo6421 I disagree. It's part of a grooming process. I've seen it with my own eyes. And yes, it's much easier to keep a young woman if you cultivate a drug habit and then feed it!
He def was an enabler who acted like he was tryin to help her and wanted her to "stop". Another way to control her. Also he prolly had a savior complex and once he was fed up it killed his gfs and could easily pass it off ass a suicide. Sick and digsuting shit. He is evil
@@kristinaerickson2353 Exactly. Classic abuser behaviour. Way too many red flags in this case for my liking. I'd like a forensic psychologist to look at the relationship between Ant and Phoebe. I believe they would conclude that it was controlling and abusive. In my opinion. And that should be enough to cast doubt on the inquest findings, in an ideal worl.
Yup yup! His other gf also turned to cocaine when started dating him. Then she “committed suicide”. Coincidence.
This was definitely an emotionally abusive relationship between Ant, a narcissist and Phoebe, a borderline. She was the ideal victim for him.
I love how respectful you always are to the families. You always allow them to have an opportunity for their voices to be heard and treat them with nothing but kindness and compassion 💜
Awww thank you, it's certainly the way I would want to be treated. We have too much judgement and finger pointing out there in the world. I just want to give everyone a hug.
Agree. This story made "Somebody's Baby" play in my mind on repeat. I really appreciated the pictures of her that were at the end. This was somebody's baby, and she deserves the truth, her family deserves the truth.
@@StephanieHarlowe beautiful.
We trust you.
This is why you have such a wonderful community of loving huggable Stephaniestas.
Honor and Respect.
100% Agree!
In my experience, when someone committed suicide the family often doesn't include that in the death announcements or anywhere. It's just too painful. The same seems to go for drug related deaths. So the fact that he wanted to make "Suicide!" the headline feels so off in itself.
He is just deplorable!
I agree. Cause of death is not mentioned by the family in most cases, very off
I never even thought of that. That’s such a good point. I already thought it was strange that he would do that but that’s so true that the family and close friends wouldn’t even mention something like that
So true. If the cause of death isn't mentioned at all I think 'oh dear'.
my grandma still lies to her priest about my fathers suicide. it’s not a happy thing and to my grandmother it’s shameful. my brothers and i were all told he was just “sick”. suicide is seen as ugly to outsiders. no one wants to make it the centerpiece probably not even the deceased. very strange
As I suspected would be the case, this video really just reinforced the opinion I was already forming. Personally, I think *someone* killed Phoebe, has connections, lined the pockets of the right people, and basically got away with murder. More than once. *Someone* did that. Don’t come for me.
I feel the opposite, the more that I hear.
I agree with you. I just cannot figure out how someone who was in her state could get into that shoot without help. I still think someone killed her. No way that was accidental.
Yeah he was a millionaire and had her pay him rent? Classic financial abuse. He isolated her and for me what really sealed the deal was, that he suggested Phoebe killed herself in that way because she “thought she was trash.” That’s very telling and that’s why I believe he murdered her so brutally in that manner. (Allegedly don’t come for me.)
@@inalovelydream1438 I think it is good that he made her pay rent. No big deal and that is in no way abuse. I think that is important. Him isolating her is the disturbing part.
PERIODT 👏
You should do a story on Bailey as well!! I’m interested in those facts and if there are similarities
!!
Yesss BOOST THIS COMMENT UP BC IM HERE FOR THAT! 100%
The footage of the guy feeding the body into the shoot really got me! It's chilling.
There is NO way she put herself in the shoot!!
Lovely memorial at the end. Phoebe was a beautiful woman. 😔 Man I feel for her family.
It is SO COINCIDENTAL that this guy with a judge in his immediate family keeps having his girlfriends die suspiciously and the police immediately declare them as suicides without any real investigation. I'm absolutely sure there's no reason for that other than pure chance.
And Ant was supposedly "helping" both young woman through substance and drug use issues? Hmmmm.... 🤔
@@doperagu8471 im sure he was totally helping them out with the drugs he supplied them, by way of his sister, the apparent drug lord of down under. Here get hooked, broke, broken, and stuck with me for-ev-ver! Then he's the hero cleaning up the pieces and the victim who lost their lover too. Sounds like a lot of gas lighting to me.
Allegedly of course, i guess. I think the neighbor was in on it too, for sure a sketchy character.
@@marandaturner942 100000% agree with you about him getting women hooked, dependent, and broken. And then he gets to be the charismatic "together" boyfriend just picking up the pieces (that he most likely created, or shattered further) and trying his "very best" to love such a woman that's "so hard to love" blah blah blah...
The fact that we've heard multiple quotes from his family and friends describing Pheobe as a "fragile flower" or whatever really speaks volumes for the picture HE was painting about her and their relationship. And the fact that all of her friends and family were like "um... No, that's not right. That's not who she was" shows us that he was either lying to his friends and family about her character or he was able to break her down to where she was that person to those close to him. Either way - I don't trust him. And I think he may have done something to her.... or at least knows a lot more than he's saying... and so does his step mother... Allegedly 😜
I think its ridiculous how many slaps on the wrists rich people get. Literally their network shields then from every Fuck Up these people may do even rape or kill their own kids.
But how dare if someone poor does a slight slip up due to extreme stress or trauma then its forever in jail
I had a thought, if Phoebe were conscious regardless of whether she went in the trash shoot purposefully, you would think she would scream falling from a height of 12 flights .... 🤔 wonder if any residents or workers reported hearing a scream
Or if she were unconscious and the blades woke her, wouldn't the pain make her cry out? You'd think, especially if the chute was steel, that it would echo and someone would hear.
WOW, "They are always moving the finish line"
POWERFUL statement. I will absolutely using this statement and quoting you Stephanie of course! ❤
It's weird that fire alarm went off that day without a reason. When alarm is set to go off and people evacuating all the entrances and exits should be open and not require fob. That's how someone can get in and out without notice
My thought exactly.
Mm hmm and him and his mate from the building were each other’s alibi. How very convenient. Rich people make me want to vomit. The soulless depravity is mind boggling.
@@caseymaree4370 Yeah, crime and murder are really more common in rich neighborhoods.
Cookie Karamello no complete indifference and unloving homes is what most of them have which breeds all kinds of psychological problems. Like showing love for your child by covering there misdeeds instead of teaching them accountability. It’s vulgar and I stand by my statement which never said what u insinuated it said. But what it actually said.
@@caseymaree4370 You think rich people come from more unloving homes than poor people and therefore commit more crime? That's idiotic. Yeah, those rich neighborhoods are cesspools of crime. LOL.
I've struggled with major depression for years and have borderline personality disorder and bipolar 2. I have abused pills and alcohol during my worst times. I have also been suicidal more than once in my life and considered myself worthless so many times... But I would have NEVER even considered to take my own life in such a horrible way. For a loved one to say she did it on purpose because she considered herself garbage is such an insult, it breaks my heart. She was amazing and beautiful. I know her pain, I have been there. That you've struggled with mental illness doesn't mean that suicide is automatically assumed.
I have also taken zolpidem for months and did things in a sleep walking state that I later realised, but it was things like eating everything in the fridge or call friends on the phone and talk nonsense. I would have never had the strength to put myself anywhere but my bed, let alone a garbage shoot! She did not do this to herself! The only thing that gives me peace with this, is that her family knows she didn't do it. I hope new information comes up and she gets justice. It's sad how much people with money can get away with... Us, people with mental illness exist, we fight for our lives. We are not garbage, we matter, we are worthy of a life with dignity.
Go girl...life is tough but you are tougher.. prayers for you xx..
@Coral Surtees Aww thank you so much Coral! I'm doing much better now & made my channel to share my recovery journey in the hopes of helping people who struggle with mental illness and to educate people on the subject because they need to hear things from us, not staying silence anymore! 💪💚
Thank you for sharing this! I’m happy to hear you are in a better place mentally. I wish to say a prayer over you,,, Heavenly Father, you have created this beautiful soul for a greater purpose. May you always shine your light upon her, may she always seek you and know that you will never abandon her, may the people she comes across always show grace and mercy and may she always have the strength to conquer the things of this world and never forget to look up when things are going down. In Jesus name I pray 🙏 amen!
🧡🧡 sending you hugs and thank you for sharing. You are so strong.
Right. Great point. In my experience, you wake up with cookie crumbs in your bed, but not in a trash chute.
I have to leave this comment, i am a housekeeper for several apartment complexes and i deal with stainless steal refrigerators and dishwashers and stoves on a daily basis and i always said, if any one who touched them did a crime they would be able to lift their finger print even if the item was cleaned why? Our hands have oils on them that's very hard to get off these!! Yes there is a special spray cleaner for stainless steal but this cleaner will still leave prints behind and i use it after i clean because it's more like a wax kind of buffer to bring out the shine witch Im not that huge of a fan because if this product isn't put on and taken off evenly it leaves behind streaks. What i use and i have tried tons of different cleaners including vinegar, "workhorse" is a degreaser and it's the only janitorial product I've found that will get hand and finger prints off stainless steal, most people who have stainless will wipe it down but trust me the prints are still there, of course when the unit is empty it has to be deep cleaned and disinfected for the next renters. Sorry for the long post but i know if some one didn't spend time cleaning that door then buffing it out prints would be all over it.
He called her 27 times in a row.
That’s all I needed to hear.
Her poetry says everything we need to know to solve this case.
The world is a poorer place for having lost such a beautiful and tortured soul.
The messiest people are the most real, the most honest, and the best people to go to for advice.
Thank you for all your hard work on this deep dive Stephanie.
This one was really hard to watch.
It really broke my heart.
Can we not romanticise mental health problems? It's really not helping and people affected with them already don't have enough help
Also if messiest people are the best people, isn't Ant the best?
@@pomponiapuchata1495 who is romanticizing mental health issues?
You have no idea who I am nor what my experience is, so please, keep your personal opinions of me to yourself considering it’s based off of one comment on a TH-cam video.
Strange thing to say that I should not share my opinion after your one comment, if you claim you can solve a case after hearing sb's poetry
@@pomponiapuchata1495 I watch so much true crime I barely remember this story at this point. I posted that comment 8 months ago.
I’m a welder, not a detective.
I come from Melbourne and remember this. She didn’t do it alone and I can’t believe it wasn’t treated as a crime scene. Thanks for helping her family by covering this story. I hope the truth comes out eventually. 🙏❤️
Yes..I believe Natalie said the truth WILL eventually come out... it always does.
So she evidently cut herself cleaning up glass but had no cuts on her hands when they found her body? 🤔
Bruh..... you got a fucking point. I think there was an altercation of some sort and she got knocked out and put in the trash chute.
Riighhtt!!
@@lyndsann3309 That's exactly what happened.
That is such a good point!!!
@@lyndsann3309 that’s what I was thinking the whole time.
I can't even IMAGINE how hard it must have been on her friends to have to physically re-enact wut happened to Phoebe😭 & I can't imagine how hard it was on her grandfather to watch Phoebe's friends re-enact what his granddaughter had to suffer thru😭🙏😭🙏😭
Exactly my thought. They knew from that exactly how she felt in her last moments. Whether or not she was conscious and did it herself or not
Strange how it's when the women are pulling away from Anthony they end up dead in bizarre ways. How exactly is she supposed to have climbed in to the shoot the only way possible, one leg at a time, if her jeans were down?! The pictures at the video's end, of this beautiful vibrant young woman made me cry for her and her family. I hope one day she, the other young woman, and any other unfortunates get justice. X
You are not weird, I agree, what could that size of an age difference have in common. IMO "Don't Come For Me"
Nothing, except the fact that one of them (not Phoebe) was is power hungry and she was vulnerable. That's it
It depends on the people. Some have a lot, others don’t have anything.
Exactly. I always said love has no age, but I’ve seen a pattern in true crime where the abuser is 10+ years older
If her pants were down before getting in, she wouldn't have been able to lift her leg to climb in. Sliding down would cause a wedgie, not her pants to fall down (anyone on a waterside knows that!). If she pulled them down for wound care, the injuries and damage on her pants would be the same. How many girlfriends have to die before any real investigations take place? So sorry that her family has been put through this.
--such a great loss.
amazing points!! i always wonder how police decide which cases they're going to write off super quick. how sad, so young too :(
I think she went down arms first- like she dived in. Hence why her pants were slid down her legs, why she hit her head, why her jaw had an abrasion... I'm not saying she killed herself- but it makes more sense to me that she slid in arms first.
@@TubaCat If she dived in, also, her hands and arms would be crashed instead of her feet. I think the only way that her pants could’ve lift, was if they’re pulled out before she went down and then this maybe could mean that there was some struggle before her falling.
Janda Japanda Farley I don’t think so. Her foot was severed so it hit the compactor first.
Yes!! I been waiting for part 3. I believe this women didn't do this to herself.
same!
Definitely the bf
I know this is an old video, and maybe nobody will see this comment but this case has been haunting me since Steph first covered it last year. After listening through the series again, I have some thoughts to share... All speculation, of course.
- Since the levels of the sleeping aid were consistent with taking the dose the night before her death, any of the acute effects would likely have worn off by the time she "fell into" the trash chute. This implies that sleepwalking is very very unlikely.
- Phoebe drank often. Even though she was a lightweight, she did have a tolerance to alcohol. I doubt that from the time she was seen on the security camera (11am-ish) to her time of death, she was able to become so severely intoxicated that she would climb into the chute.
- Further, Phoebe knew that she and Ant were to be meeting her dad for dinner later that night, why would she willingly get so day drunk? Phoebe cared a lot about her family's opinion of her/of her relationship to Ant. It was her father's birthday. It seems out of character that she would show up to a very important dinner already severely drunk- maybe she would have drank too much at the dinner itself, or I could even see her showing up drunk if it was a dinner with strangers, but it doesn't sound like she would do that with her dad...
- Phoebe's dog. If there had been a conflict in her apartment, why didn't her dog start barking? Why didn't her dog attack the person? The dog was not harmed at all. Any intruder who was a stranger would have at least tried to hurt the dog or made the dog very loud. Yoshi was a large dog.
- The false fire alarm. Is it possible that somebody who had the intention to harm Phoebe (maybe someone who was hired to do so?) would have been staking out the Valencia, entered the fire escape, pulled the alarm so that people would leave the building and then follow Phoebe back into her apartment after the evacuation was completed?
- To continue on that theory, is it possible that Phoebe was coerced into getting into the chute by someone she/Ant knew? Perhaps by being threatened/forced, or by strong encouragement since she had been buzzed from drinking. Most of the time, when people do "daredevil" things, it is to show off to or entertain somebody. Phoebe was known to be very social and enjoy doing physically impressive things to entertain/bond with her friends. It may not have been too hard to convince her to do this if she was drinking. This could also explain why there was no fingerprints left behind after she had gone down the chute. Someone may have promised her that they would hold onto her so that she wouldn't fall into the chute, but once she had gotten into that vulnerable position they let go of her, closed the door and held it shut so she couldn't hold on and climb back out. This would also explain how her pants partially came off- in struggling to grip the chute and climb back out, the force of gravity + the friction of the narrow metal passage could have made this happen. Eventually she would not have been strong enough to keep holding onto the walls of the passage and fell down, feet first on her stomach, causing the injury on her backside.
- The "suicide" of Bailey. There is absolutely no way that girl willingly strangled herself with a cord. It is damn near impossible to strangle yourself like this. Bailey would have passed out and let go of the cord before she actually died. Her parents had stepped out briefly- I believe that the same person who took the opportunity to harm Phoebe could have been staking out the opportunity to harm Bailey. Not a professional hitman necessarily... But someone who was willing to do these things for either drugs (connection to Krissy's circle maybe) or money or some other benefit. The knot in the cord suggests that this person did know what they were doing, perhaps someone who was previously in jail or had committed violent crimes before. I also believe that this was someone Bailey and Ant knew, and that's why there was no sign of forced entry. Strangling someone with a cord, wearing gloves, is one way to commit a "messless" murder. If this person knew what they were doing, they would not have left behind any evidence- but they didn't think to leave a stool or chair to indicate that she hung herself, so that tells me they aren't a professional hitman.
- During the part about Phoebe's memorial, I thought about the Michelle Carter case- how she orchestrated a memorial for her ex boyfriend (whom she encouraged to commit suicide) in a town far from his family and loved ones. How she wanted the attention that came from being a grieving ex girlfriend... I believe Ant was similarly minded. This man cares a lot about what people think of him. He has a name for himself that comes with big social expectations. He shows many signs of covert narcissism. Knowing that, it makes sense to me that when both of his exes each wanted to leave him or attempted to do so, they ended up dead... Narcissists cannot handle when someone they are getting supply from leave them. When both of his exes died, he made a point to mention how he cared so much, tried so hard to "help" these "poor misguided souls" out of their addictions and mental health issues. The memorial for Phoebe showcased her as an extension of himself. He had attempted to change her instead of embracing the beautiful qualities she had which made her an individual. And of course, he never mentioned how their relationship was causing her (and likely Bailey too) major stress, possibly even causing her to turn more to her unhealthy coping mechanisms. Narcissists love to paint their exes as "crazy" so that they always maintain control of how others perceive the narcissist and their failed relationship. There is no accountability there EVER, unless it is phoney accountability to represent themselves as honest or innocent.
I guess thats all for now. I just needed to get these thoughts out of my system. I'm in no way connected to this case, nor am I accusing anyone mentioned in this comment of serious crimes. These are just speculations.
Great points!
I sincerely believe that your thoughts on the case are as accurate to truth as any speculations that I have seen.
I’ve personally dated men who had some form of narcissistic disorder whether it be covert, malignant, or or insecure.
I believe that he may have covert or an insecure form of narcissistic disorder, as evidenced by his behavior after her death (having various women staying with him in order to comfort/protect him during the grieving process, as well as his strange behavior that coincided with individuals entering the room “it was strange, his meltdowns seemed to coincide with people entering the room”.
I believe he may have struggled with Phoebe or had threatened, or otherwise manipulated her into ingesting alcohol or pills, or forcing her otherwise into the chute.
I’ve personally seen how dangerous a narcissistic individual behaves once he is aware of his victim’s awareness or belief of his disorder - this brings on great shame for a narcissistic individual.
They rapidly fall into a state of anger or revenge when they feel exposed.
I don’t have any doubt that Phoebe was murdered.
I know where you’re going with the “not a pro hit man” thing…and I totally agree. His friend for his whole life. Even that one photo the media keeps showing of the two of them, he looks like a hit man or bodyguard!! I agree with that you mostly. This dude will absolutely kill someone’s else again. And again, and again.
All of this!! I appreciate you for your detailed and well thought out comment ❤
the ending slideshow. 😭
if anyone needs me, i’ll be sobbing whilst getting ready for work rn. she deserves justice. thank you for being a voice of the voiceless, stephanie. no one does it like you. 🤍
She had the most amazing piercing eyes. She was so beautiful and it kills me her life was just snuffed out. I don't give a rats ass if she drank. She was still a human, a beautiful wonderful living being and it's killing me this was grossly mishandled. I wish I new someone, anyone who could reopen this case. The end slideshow had me ugly crying and so pissed off. She should be here. Alive.
I have a lump in the back of my throat. The song paired with the pictures of Phoebe tore me up!
This case is so frustrating, there's clearly huge cover ups going on, it just seems like you can get away with anything if you have enough money, Rest In Peace both Phoebe and Baillee
Agreed
Agreed
And if your parents are judges
Unfortunately he’s not the first and he sure as fuck won’t be the last. Forever and for always.
It is appalling. Justice and truth come second to who you know and how much they have.
Im ASSUMING dont come for me...that none of those cups in the apartment were tested for DNA or fingerprints either 🙄🤦🏽 so sad she wasnt given the amount of investigating and justice she so much deserved, to have. Ughh. So sad. And Ant is super suspish...what about the person that lives there too..?? Suspish af. Allegedly 👓
@America's Rabbit Hole what??!!
I can just imagine Ant intimidating the police into not taking evidence. Don't come for me!
❤️❤️❤️
❤️❤️❤️
Natalie sounds like an amazing and understanding woman. My heart really goes out to her. Of course as well as the rest of the family and friends. Thanks for this trilogy of videos. It gave an amazing insight into this case.
These tests and experiments with the chute is giving me anxiety. I can not imagine the terror of being in such a small place and falling 12 stories. 😫
The tests also made me anxious until the wide panning shot that shows that the experiments are done in a film set specifically for testing and it's not a real trash system.
Really scary for poor phoebe though
@@finthefishsep20toma not the second one they had the harness around her
@@lizallmartino1042 where is that? Timestamp?
@@finthefishsep20toma 30:17 but I just rewatch I think she might of said it was a replica with a mattress at the bottom
@@finthefishsep20toma 30:17
What the hell is up with the Coroner? Sounds like he's a friend of the influential family.... Ant is a controlling Dog with no regard for anyone but himself. I'm embarrassed that our investigating Police force are so inept. How crushing for Phoebe's mum and family. This case screams corruption!
rest assured that it's not just your police force, friend... unfortunately
Understatement! Definitely corruption here an not an open honest verdict......but I expect nothing less from our justice system, including police. We were flat out lied to our face about our sons death, we were in shock as is any parent. The cops came to visit and told us we had 30 days to decide if we wanted an inquest into his death. The cops raved on how hard it would be drag it all out be worse for us to “get over”....you NEVER get over the lost of a child.....but really pushed the “it won’t be any different to what we told you” we decided not to bother because of the way cops made it all sound. After it was too late for the inquest, cops sent us ALL witness statements, police, coroner etc and found out that the cops had 100% lied to us about how and what had happened......it makes me soooooooooo angry that they lied to us, probably because they couldn’t be bothered with the paper work involved! Just a heads up, everyone always say YES TO AN INQUEST !
@@shaz8486 that's infuriating and so damn sad, friend
@@amandaredd3057 thanks Amanda, it is so infuriating not knowing how the system “works” then to feel like they take advantage of people when they are in shock, it’s wrong. Recently someone in our daughter’s in-laws family died in a car accident, I said to tell the mum to make certain the same doesn’t happen to her and to say she wanted an inquest, it’s the only way to have have slight chance of getting to the truth .....
@@shaz8486 that's just crazy!
I definitely think Ant had something to do with the deaths of both girls.
I think there are 3. A girl friend in the 90s, I think.
@@CCGem tell me more
Yeah he’s sketchy as hell. 😞
@@CCGem wow
And.... his sister had a boyfriend who committed suicide. 😳
When you said that Ant was never satisfied with her behavior... He was a narcissist for 100%. And you run away from this kind of people as far as you can. That's so sad that Phoebe didn't, and she paid the highest and ultimate price for it. It's breaking my heart.
No one who knew her approved a lot of it because it was self destructive. People disapproving of a damned drunk’s behavior, for example, doesn’t demonstrate the drunk is a victim and the cops and judges and family members and doctors who disapprove are narcissistic and big meanies. It’s a problem.
When you said that Ant also had another young girlfriend die with an unusual reason my heart sank. There’s something very wrong with this picture...
At the very least, there should be a PSA about being romantically involved with this family. All of Australia's young, vibrant women should know these stories. There should be a billboard.
@@TheQuantumCapitalist YES!!!! BIG, HUGE, F@@KING MONSTROSITY of a billboard.. but... Lemme tell you.... Billboards get shit DONE.. Two cases off the top of my head where billboards solved the crime (well, the people who saw them and then brought WHAT information they knew forward):
1). Heartbreaking (aren't they ALL) case of Rachel Koloroutis and Tiffany Rowell - they were friends with this outsider named Christine Paolilla.. Who suffered from bullying and ridicule because of a medical condition called alopecia totalis.. Which causes hair loss.. Head, eyebrows, etc. Rachel and Tiffany took Christine under their wing..showed her how to use wigs to her advantage, etc. Loooong story short.. Tiffany, Rachel and two young men with them were gunned down in July of 2003....composite sketch from witnesses across the street from the home was put on several billboards on the highways and interstates surrounding Houston by George Koloroutis.. Rachel's father....wasnt long before someone with important information came forward... That ungrateful and soulless Christine Paolilla and her likewise drug addicted bf were matched up to the absolute uncanny composite sketches... That F'IN SORRY B@@CH got life, no parole.. Equally sorry bf committed suicide in the woods before he was rounded up.. She Should have gotten DEATH.. just what she sentenced those two beautiful girls to... who HELPED HER... SMFH
2) case of a woman and her two daughters who went to Florida looking for a fun time on vacation...they encountered a man who gave them directions to a boat dock/landing where he moored his boat...as he had offered them a ride.. He took them way out in the Atlantic, assualted them sexually, tied each of them up alive with a cinder block and and hitched them overboard.... He was a contractor and had done some work for a local women.. Turns out he had a distinctive loop (and other identifying marks in his handwriting) in his "y." He had written a note to the mom /daughters how to get to his boat dock... They put a copy of his instructions to the women on a billboard and the local woman for whom he had done work still had the receipt from when he did the contracting...... Took a few days... But GOTCHA!!!! Even now, investigative forensic genealogy can take evidence.. even minute amounts, such as mitochondrial DNA... Whatever kind... From the crime scene and work backwards through CODIS (Combined DNA Index System) and other resources.. To catch offenders. I love it!!!!! ♥️ ♥️ ♥️ ♥️
Dear Natalie if you’re reading this please know my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Lots of love and support to you all.
Seeing the demonstration of how she might have climbed in on her own made me feel a bit sick. It’s such a horrible way to go.
Watching that really bothered me too
I agree. Those parts were some of the hardest to watch. Imagine the emotions of her friends, literally doing that and knowing this was part of the last moments of their friends life. Not sure I could have done that.
Really horrible and claustrophobic. I feel she must have been very maluable at the time, like someone could shove her in if she was really drugged or passed out
Exactly, there’s no way you would do that to yourself x
And finally can we give kudos to the tiny sampling of amazing poetry this talented young woman was capable of?!
The tribute at the end is just beautiful 💗 Thanks for always highlighting victims humanity.
Got me a lil teary eyed. Stephanie always does such a beautiful job with that ❤❤
Stephanie does such a great job at honoring and respecting victims!
I’m not saying Ant is a murderer. But both of his girlfriends were murdered no doubt about it. Also the fact his second girlfriend had cocaine n her system, which his sister deals, is interesting
also ants sisters boyfriend committed suicide.... um 3 suicides in that family is very sus.
Bailee had a history though. I don't know how exposed you are to that kind of party scene but Ive lost quite a few of my "friends" from those days to accidents, murder, and suicide.
I'm saying he's a murderer. He did it but is well-connected so he got away with it.
It could be the sister..... weird jealousy there? Remember, she said Phoebe made herself over to look like his sister!
Ant is super sus to me. I'm fairly sure he had at least sth to do with phoebe's death
The Coroner should have ruled it as an “open” case. I wonder if someone paid him off....don’t come for me, just my opinion.
They all failed her
I wonder if there wasn't more paying off involved at the different stages unfortunately
Me too. Money talks.
Thank you, Stephanie Harlowe for covering this case. I had watched your videos on Phoebe Handsjuk three years ago. For some reason - I thought about Phoebe recently. And I wanted to refresh my memory on her case. I am glad that I did. I am actively involved in following true crime cases more now, as I was back then. There are many cases out there that indicate foul play, involving powerful people in key positions - that, have a lot of money. Phoebe Handsjuk was a beautiful young woman with her entire life ahead of her. Considering, the facts in this case, I feel Phoebe was a victim of foul play. I hope that someday, she will get the justice she truly deserves. - RIP, Phoebe Handsjuk
I think he says alot about the person you are that Phoebe's Mama was willing to talk to you...
And such a lovely tribute at the end.
Love you so.
for three parts long, my (diagnosed borderline) brain kept screaming "it's BPD. she had BPD. 100% ticking all of the boxes" and now I'm at 55:30 and I'm like "ahhh, there it is". I feel like, when you yourself have borderline or someone very close to you has it, you can't NOT recognise it in others, it's like an automatism
I believe the phrase you were looking for is, "Chrissie was an unlicensed pharmaceutical distributior."
😂 😂 😂 😂
I'm going to use this phrase from now on. Thank you
Double speak at its finest👌
Genius🤩
Street pharmacist lol
lol
I hope someone from Phoebe's family was able to collect her dog and adopt it... From the photos I can tell she had the doggy when still was a puppy. I always feel so sad and anxious about the pets when their owners pass away :(
I thought the same. She loved that dogo and her dogo loved her❤
I’m so glad you covered the life of Phoebe. I’ve really identified with her struggle and this one really touched me. Amazing work as always. You always capture the beauty of these people so well and you allow listeners to empathize with these people. Thanks Stephanie !
Thank you so much! I appreciate your kind words!
Yeah. I feel I would have liked Phoebe very much.
The slideshow at the end and the entirety of your effort to research and interview regarding each case is unmatched. Thank you, Stephanie, for all your work for victims, families, and viewers!
How can they say in one breath that Phoebe wasn’t in touch with reality & her decision making was impaired and then believe that she had the presence of mind to not just clear up a broken glass but to then take it to the trash room?!
Because she made a mess and wanted to clean it up. His house was supposed to look like "nobody lived there" and she had been mentally a mess and dropped her drink which in turn made her feel more of a mess. Cleaning it up she cut herself, which made her even more frustrated with herself and while cleaning it i imagine she's belittling herself either outloud or internally calling herself a piece of trash for being that way. So... on the way to the trash..... might as well jump in and become what she felt? I don't know. Just my opinion after being in the dumps and then making more of a mess and feeling like a failure, it kinda makes sense?
Except there were no wounds from her cutting herself on glass.
@@8shroomfairy8 except YOU CANT PUT YOURSELF FEET FIRST DOWN A GARBAGE SHOOT
This is such a dodgy situation. The whole iPhone-repair situation is a mess - the missing Nokia handset another.. The fact that Len said he called Phoebe on her iPhone and he said that Ant answered - whereas Ant says that he didn't have the iPhone but shortly after called Len from his own phone to supposedly make dinner arrangements. Telephone records show that Ant didn't call Len - but Len DID call Ant as he said he did, AND they talked for a couple of minutes.. on Phoebe's phone.
She didn't kill herself. If Ant didn't do it, he's behind it. I have no doubt
I came back to say; The tribute to Phoebe at the end of the video was, beautiful ❤️ bless her family my heart aches for their loss of their vibrant beautiful girl.
As someone with BPD, her psychologist was so irresponsible for putting her on anti depressants!!!! BPD mimics depression but it is NOT. Taking anti depressants will actually exacerbate the downs of BPD and cause suicidal ideology. This makes me so extremely upset. Also there is no such thing as “kind of” BPD. It’s all or nothing in the diagnostic criteria. You either are or are not and it doesn’t happen gradually. I put my life on the fact she was misdiagnosed with depression and anxiety like I was for 2 decades. I have been on every antidepressant and they either didn’t do anything or made me suicidal. Because BPD isn’t a chemical imbalance and it is not safe to take them with this disorder. Omg, this entire part of her life was so insanely negligent on her doctors part!
Personality disorders are not meant to be formally diagnosed until you are over 25 and your brain stops developing. With every personality disorder it is possible to be diagnosed with personality disorder ‘traits’ as opposed to the actual personality disorder. Some practitioners will also still prescribe antidepressants in some cases and then monitor side effects. I’m not saying her psychologist wasn’t negligent, but there are other factors
@@mylifeaspi1344 yep definitely possible to have traits of a personality disorder but not the full diagnosis
I know I'm super late to this video but I clean houses for a living and let me tell you stainless steel is my number one most hated thing. It holds every tiny print, water droplet, and smudge. It needs a specific cleaner to look nice and shiny, and certain stainless only likes certain brands of stainless steel cleaner. It's a big bitch. There's no way that she wouldn't have left a lot of fingerprints and smudges in my opinion.
There were fingerprints but they couldn't lift anything of use. If you talk to forensics they will tell you how hard it is to lift a decent fingerprint at all even if there's lots of them. Not defending the investigation here, which was as much of a cover up as the Ellen Rae Greenberg case and has astounding parallels with the partner's direct connections to high placed officials, judiciary and govermnent. That's all you need to know about what happened here.
Stephanie, you never cease to amaze me with your documentaries. The ending is so beautiful. You don't just tell a crime story, you tell the story of someone's family member, someone's friend, someone that mattered in the world, someone that is more than a crime story. You have truly found the right line of work!
When I was in my 20's, I dated a wealthy man who was 21 years older. I completely get her relationship with Ant and how hard it is to get away from someone who is controlling.
Glad you made it out. Hope your in a happier place now!
I’ve been sent down a rabbit hole with this case and found a podcast by her family called “Phoebe’s Fall” and has first hand accounts and interviews. I hope this family finds peace and the truth about an allegedly controlling cause of this tragedy. RIP Phoebe.
Did you come away with anything new that this video forgot or down played ? Would really like to know where I can find it
Please share link if you can.
@@angelapyle7301 Stephanie did a thorough job as always but hearing it from their voices and perspective it hits different. I left the link on Apple podcasts above.
@@RevolutionAndPeace it’s above after America’s Rabbit Hole’s comment.
Yy_
I suffer with borderline personality disorder and I appreciate the way you spoke on it !
I manage mine with therapy and thankfully do not need medication .
Imagine how you feel when you are sad or mad or happy or stressed or worried etc etc .. now imagine if you felt those feelings 1000 times worse or stronger . It’s like that . Every single
Emotion is escalated !!!! It’s incredibly overwhelming. We call it too much ! Everything is too much !
But with therapy I have learned how to cope . It’s a darn struggle !
I also want to add that I have a sensational husband that helps me deal and cope and never gives up on me ! Having a partner that is understanding helps so much .
I too have BPD and an amazing partner and therapist, I hope you are doing well! I know what a rollercoaster it is, even when you have all the support in the world... My heart bleeds for Phoebe.
I hope you are doing well 💖💖
Hey Stephanie. Completely unrelated to this case, I live in Norfolk, UK. Today there has been a case where a young 19 year old lad has been found in a pond, nowhere near where he was last seen. The police aren't considering this suspicious and are not looking for a third party. I don't know how many of your comments you get to read, I also know you're so far away and probably haven't heard of this case yet. The young lad is called Richard Okorogheye. He was a good student and his mother is distraught. Media are putting pictures of her sad face everywhere and this is wrong, she needs time to grieve. I would love it and I think the rest of England would appreciate if there is anything you can find on this case to make people more aware that this should be treated as a suspicious death!!
Thankyou for posting your videos I love them!
I'm not sure what happened but they're treating it as non suspicious
As someone with BPD, I think she definitely had BPD... we're also more vulnerable to addiction, especially alcohol.
Edit: there's no such thing as "full blown BPD". It's a *personality* disorder, which means it can manifest it many different ways for different people, and all symptoms have a spectrum. I hope you'll see this comment.
Agreed. Someone can have "traits of" BPD without meeting criteria for a diagnosis. It takes 5 out of 9, I believe, in the DSM 5 to qualify. But the disorder, like many others, is on a spectrum, can present in many ways, and can be complicated if there are conorbid disorders such as complex PTSD, substance abuse, other personality disorders, bipolar, major depression, etc.
i think when she used the phrase “full blown BPD” she was trying to say that while phoebe showed signs of BPD, she may not have fully met the criteria, therefore not having the “full blown” disorder. you can have symptoms of a condition without having the condition. that’s just my interpretation though, i agree with everything you’ve said :)
His second young girlfriend “took her own” life as well? I mean... I think we all see the common denominator. I hope these women get justice and have peace.
What a beautiful tribute to Phoebe at the end of this video. You do such an amazing job of honoring people. You truly are an Earth angel.❣️
“Why would anyone drink out of more than one glass at a time?”
Me: looks at my cup of tea, my mug of flat water, my glass of fizzy water.
Me: at least there’s not also a glass of wine and a glass of limeade too??
@A Gunther Ah, good catch!
I always have like 3 different types of drinks by my side 😅
Exactly, many do this just for alcohol & water. Or w/e
The more the merrier
If we could post pictures here zomg I'd be sunk. I'd have the most damning evidence. Matching coffee and seltzer bottles iced coffee one is 24oz. Water/seltzer bottle is 40oz. Always have at least 2 active lol.
FYI: Men who can't achieve an erection without the use of cocaine almost always have an extreme addiction to cocaine. Meaning, Anthony had probably been using cocaine for a length of time and in larger than recreational amounts. It also helps explain the manic behavior of both Anthony and Phoebe as described in the nature of their relationship, the strict cleaning and appearance of both home and people, and a few other subtle behaviors.
Opinion: Either Anthony put Phoebe down the garbage chute when she was unconscious, perhaps after a physical altercation in which Anthony rendered her unconscious or after he found her so intoxicated she was unconscious. OR he had someone, like his neighbor/friend that lived in the same building, attack and dispose of her in the chute or put her into the chute after she was found/rendered unconscious from drug use. Why did Anthony do this? Phoebe had become a problem in his life he could not control so he eliminated the problem. It's cold but I think he viewed many things, including people, in this manner. (Edit: She also could have threatened to leave him and he couldn't handle her being the one to leave him but I think this is less likely or comingles with my original motive.) Anthony's father (lawyer) and step-mom (judge) did anything necessary to cover all this up and make sure the police/coroner ruled this a suicide or at least an accident. Anthony's sister knows the truth or at least a portion of it. I hope one day she has the strength to speak that truth and potentially give Phoebe the justice she deserves. Phoebe's grandfather is amazing and I hope he never gives up on getting the truth of his granddaughter's death and justice for her, if evidence bares that out. (Edit: Bailey's death only strengthens my opinion. Her case also needs to be reopened. Anthony might be a potential serial killer, if we're being completely honest here.) Find her journals, find the truth?...
You are spot on here
I live in Australia and he’s pretty much assumed to have done it. Personally I feel like he considered her lower than him, human garbage and he treated her as such. I’m just relieved that though she had her demons that she had friends and family that loved her ❤️
I am on that same medication for sleep. It is VERY powerful and is NEVER supposed to be taken with alcohol. There have been cases of people cooking entire meals while on that and in the morning have no memory of it. Sometimes people act odd on it one night, and another night they don’t. You mentioned earlier in the story that one of her cell phones could not be found. Is it possible that when she threw out her garbage she thought that maybe she had dropped the phone down the chute and thought that she could go down the chute to find her phone? This case is very confusing as I can see it happening a few different ways. I feel terrible for her and her family. I wish that they had found resolution and peace. Great job on covering this case!!!
So, I'm Auzy and I can say from a cultural perspective of Melbourne and the picture painted of this character and his associates... That guy definitely did coke.
HE thought she was trash. It's clear.
Right. He was cleaning up his apartment (in his sick, twisted mind).
As a newbie to your channel I would just like to say how well considered, well researched and well presented your videos are. So glad I found you.
In my opinion, there has been a huge miscarriage of justice here. I've been in relationships like this, in the past, and I have massive red flags and alarm bells going off. I feel Ant has a lot to answer for, in my opinion.
Thank you so much, and thank you for being here!
Omg, bless her friends Sarah and Viv, I think she proved an important point
You are so compassionate....I fall asleep listening to you. You have a heart of gold. Thank you for being a light in the 🌎 💞❤