Why Super Saiyan GRADE 3 is STRONGER Than Super Saiyan 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ย. 2024
- Is Super Saiyan a 500x Multiplier like Ultra Super Saiyan? Is Grade 3 Super Saiyan 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan. Could it be more powerful than Super Saiyan 3? Future Trunks used it in Dragon Ball Z but Caulifla used it in Dragon Ball Super. Why Super Saiyan GRADE 3 is STRONGER Than Super Saiyan 2
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Would you like to see Future Trunks return in Dragon Ball Super?...Your thoughts?
PS.Expecting Backlash for this video, but please do watch the full video before you do so.
Yeah but these timeliness made my Brain tooo MESS UP !!! 🙁🙁🙁🙁🙁
RevoluShane your actually right too, I believe one of the scans and guides list Ultra SSJ something as a x10 increase of SSJ so even SSJ in raw power would only be close to USSJ but obviously SSJ3 has more benefits but thinking about it I’m not sure how in the long run either from would do in terms of energy conserving
good job with this one. This i can believe. I normally don't question seth's reasoning but I had issues with his grade 3 vs grade 4 and ssj2.
SSJ Grade 3 is a 5x increase of SSJ.
Is SSJ grade 3 stronger than SSJ3?
Makes sense to me, I think the best example you had here was when Trunks tried tricking Vegeta with it in Dragon Ball Super.
Ya lol same.
Makes sense cause vegeta would have killed cell with his final flash if he aimed a little lower lol
I mean Cell did admit in the manga flat out that trunks completely surpassed Cell in brute strength
@@arushashwingo so did super saiyan 2. Ive always thought Grade 3 was Super saiyan 2 with heavy speed loss.
Pros:
More strength
Cons:
Less stamina
More ki used
Less speed
You literally are a bigger target
"You literally are a bigger target"
🤣💀💯
Ssj grade 3 for beam struggle
@@bailujen8052 yeah
@@JESUSISABOVE I was describing the pros and cons of SSJ grade 3 not comparing it to SSJ2
@@PeakSpiegel Also Grade 3 is better if you want to shoot Ki blasts or a kamehameha or final flash will be stronger.
The issue with this theory is, when Gohan went SSJ2 everybody was frozen in shock from the power they was sensing. Vegeta, Trunks, Goku, Piccolo, they where all in complete awe of merely SSJ2 Gohan's power.
So if USSJ did have higher raw strength, why would Trucks be shocked by SSJ2? Why would Piccolo who sense Trucks be in awe once again at SSJ2?
When Gohan goes SSJ2, it's implied by the Z Fighters reactions that his POWER and SPEED both far exceed any other Z Fighter.
Trunks stated that gohan did it right by increasing his power without sacrificing speed. So that's why he was so shocked with ssj2.
In this case we can say power includes both speed and strength. And z fighters like piccolo can sense the power of the form. So trunks increased his strength but heavily decreased his speed, while gohan increased both speed and strength. So gohans overall power would be greater than trunks but not his strength.
@@rowan2445 Does that really add up though? I dunno if things are different in the manga, probably are. But in the anime Perfect Cell toys around with Trunks a bit and lets Trunks get a few licks in before he embarrasses the USSJ form, and Trunks really manages to do nothing in regards to damage to Cell.
Meanwhile SSJ2 Gohan can inflict massive damage upon Cell with just a couple hits and kill the Cell Jr's in 1 hit.
So would that not also suggest SSJ2 not only beats USSJ in speed but also strength?
@@justinlynch3 this is the problem tho. You are relying on the anime. The manga does go differently. In the manga cell states that trunks's strength is far beyond his own. Unlike the anime Cell does not allow trunks to land a hit on him cause he knows that he will be heavily damaged if trunks manages to land something. Then cell powers up into his own grade 3 form to show trunks that he can increase his strenght too by bulking up but chooses not to because its useless. Also a side note. I think the z fighters were more shocked at gohans powrer because it was gohan and not goku. Gohan was still a kid. Even when he powered up as ssj they were surprised. They doubted him at first. Even king kai was shocked that gohan was stronger than goku as a regualr ssj
YES BECAUSE gohan initially in Z had a hidden power over everyone so is why maybe everyone is shocked@@justinlynch3
It's lower than a 2x multiplier and SS2 wasn't called SSGrade 5 for nothing
And Cell saying Trunks could beat him was because at that point of Level Cell was using Trunks was Stronger but Cell could've powered up and would be stronger than Trunks was
Wow Piccolo saying that while cell only shows about a bit of his Power
I’ve always wondered would it be a good idea to go from ssj 2 to grade 3 during a beam struggle cus your not moving?
Thats pretty interesting
Yeah...
No it wouldn't be a good idea because SSJ Grade 3 also burns through your energy much faster than SSJ2. So just the act of transforming into SSJ Grade 3 would hit your stamina so hard you wouldn't be able to maintain a blast during a beam struggle. It's the reason Vegeta didn't transform to use his Final Flash and the reason why Trunks was only throwing punches and kicks and not firing ki blasts in his fight against Cell.
@@micahben-avraham5635 ngl I am pretty sure he did transform during it as when u see him charging it u can see his body seeming to enlarge and his hair spike more although this could be just for design I think he did transform
But mid beam struggle that won't work as u said to that would burn your stamina temporarily so the you won't be able to hold the beam
@@micahben-avraham5635 that's the thing though, you wouldn't have to maintain any beam struggle if you have the power level advantage, you'd only use grade 3 in a beam struggle if you know ittl be enough to quickly wipe out the fight in the first place rather than dragging a whole beam struggle in ssj2
Very informative video, you did a great job backing up your points and debunking that stupid 500x multiplier bs that seththeprogrammer brought back into light months back, which was extremely irritating. Strength is one thing, but if the opponent has any kind of speed and agility, you won't win. A well rounded fighter is a better fighter than someone who just focuses on one thing, such as strength alone. That's why Vegeta didn't use the form against Cell, he knew what would happen and Trunks realized in his folly that he didn't surpass Vegeta at all like he thought.
Exactly
Indeed, Super Saiyan "Grade 4" turns out to just be regular ol' Super Saiyan. It is an interesting theory, but it turns out to be false.
Cell was only playing with trunks head when he said he was stronger than him. Many facts of why Trunks wasn’t nearly as strong as cell
1. Cell was extremely suppressed.
2. We didn’t see cell’s hidden strength till he fought Goku and it was a power never felt before.
3. He didn’t go full strength until he fought Gohan.
4. When Goku showed half his strength.. that left everyone blown away which shows his grade 4 was not only faster but stronger than trunks grade 3.
5. When Goku went full power against cell even trunks and Vegeta was overwhelmed by his strength. This was before they saw how fast he was along with cell.
Right
Actually it's more just an anime thing. In the manga Cell doesn't gets wrecked by Trunks. You can read the manga for yourselves online.
Cell Wasn’t Even Trying Against Trunks Grade 3
@@galanakagalactus903 in the manga Trunks never touches Cell
Are you kidding me ssj grade III is a steroid version of ssj2
Lmao
This is incorrect. Ssj2 is by far stronger than g3ssj. And I can easily prove it.
@@pikichugo do it.
@@pikichugo so soooooooo right they don't know what there talking about
RevoluShane ye basically lol
Broly uses this form and kicks ass
J Rob Errrr LSSJ, SSJ grade 3, very different forms, visually they are similar. The overly bulky muscles, increase height, the hair gets spikier.
Actually Legendary Super Saiyan is like Super Saiyan 1 but with the ki of super saiyan 3 or maybe god.
Does LSSJ have grade 1 grade 2 grade 3 or grade 4?
@@oofmom he can use those forms but he's so damn strong he doesn't need to he can access that power without drawbacks
@@oofmom No he doesn't.
Not only does ssj2 and ssj3 multiplies the speed and strength of the user but also multiplies durability,unlike grade 2 and grade 3.. which appears to only increase "strength"......remember ssj2 gohan tanked a punch from
Full power cell like nothing but trunks was about to be killed
Trunks never even Touched Cell and Cell only Dodged trunks attacks in the Manga
@Moneydagyo131 Ssj3 decreases durability due to his stamina drain
@@michelepizzicara8418 in that sense, yes. Thats the only durability trait ssj2 beats ssj3. But let me ask you, can ssj2 tank the attacks ssj3 can? Kid buu put a major beating on ssj2 vegeta. Overall ssj3 is more durable
The big problem with this is that it implies trunks going back in the time chamber for 2 years can't get 10x stronger. Same for vegeta.
I always wondered why they couldn't get stronger with that extra yr that doesn't seem fair
You training yo ass off while their just sleeping under a tree in ssj form and still stronger than you.
@@Bigjay88888 yea its more likely that they can get stronger but goku new form is just so much stronger that trunks and vegeta couldn't make the difference.
@@Bigjay88888 training smarter >>> training harder
Grade 3 is like a mini Broly form, only that you’re slow.
I feel like Grade 3 could practical for fights it would be a matter of adapting and training to get used to the greater weight caused by the enlarged muscles.
They could use it like how DBM use it, grade 2 to boost speed and only grade 3 to land critical blows, or when its in a finger dead lock Trunks could go grade 3 and give cell a couple good blows but cell with his chimera mix of abilities finally beat trunks and everyone will be happy.
It's purely fiction but based off of context, grade 3 was stronger than ss2 but slower and more drain resulting in kill fast or lose. Trunks suffered from hiding it from father so not understanding its strengths and weaknesses. If he truly trained with it in the hyperbolic time chamber and understood its risk to reward, he may have been able to use its strengths to gain a win especially since cell needed to be destroyed completely every cell to die. It was a tell all when perfect cell came back and instantly killed trunks. It's pure damage with obvious weaknesses.
If dragon ball fighters worked together and not try to full testosterone 1v1 every boss, they might actually win without having to train forever. Tank, healer, damage, support etc...
Super Saiyan grade 3 cannot have a 500 times multiplier. Because Super Saiyan 3 is much stronger than Super Saiyan 1 grade 3 with a multiplier of 400× Base.
Nope The Guide Stated Otherwise SS Grade 3 is x500
Matt Pac the guides are not so much reletable
Don't trust the guides. There's no way the super saiyan multipliers are that low. Grade 1 has a multiplier of at least 200. Please watch Saiyan's Scholars video on SSJ multiplier and taste enlightenment.
So when gohan punched cell and made him spit out 18 , when did trunks do that
Gohan was stronger than trunks in general
Like i said no one called asspull when trunks was one of the strongest characters in the cell arc. Cell was impressed at that moment. Though cell was supressed. In raw power, trunks had the title of strongest for a moment. No one cried foul, maybe because most didn't catch that part. But when trunks asspulls on Zamas everyone flips. Maybe bc these forums and videos weren't around really in the 2000s lol
Because there was a valid reason. He was a half sayian who was bringing out his potential. Verses super, where at first he is near the level of ssj3, then he gets up to SSJB, which is a power jump if at least 1000000x(the real number is much higher, as SSG is far stronger than that, due to it being universe level, then times the 250x of super sayian grade 2 for blue), and then he goes from that to with a simple spirit bomb, to the level of a weakened fusion between a ssg level fighter and a even stronger than vanilla SSJB, SSR. As the potaras multiply fighterxfighter in regards to base power, fused zamazu was literally billions of times stronger than trunks, and yet a spirit bomb created by a couple hundred people was enough to win??! Nobody else was left in the universe, and goki didn't even do it. If they didn't keep everyone dead but had brought everyone in the universe back from being killed twice using the super dragonballs, I would think it would make sense. But comparing the two plots makes no sense in power scaling. In one hand, you had a future trunks on the level of ssj2(2xgrade 2), as a half sayian, with a crippling weakness. On the other hand, his power level gets boosted from 20 ish billion, to literally in the septillions. I'm sorry, but that is really dumb to compare the two
Here's why it's not: the Grades escalate
SSJ Grade 1>SSJ Grade 2>SSJ Grade 3>SSJ Grade 4>SSJ Grade 5
thats fan made system. grade 1 and grade 4 are the same form. what you call grade 4 is perfected SSJ but it still has the 50x multiplier just like grade 1. The only difference should be that someone who perfected SSJ should be able to use it for a longer time and more easily. Goku should still be able to go grade 2 after the HTC and still go a power boost.
@@joaosoares2570 First you tell me that the grade system is fanon, and then you go on to explain how everything works using fanon lol.
The grade system is based on the narrative - what the manga shows us, and how it stacks up is obvious.
It's also obvious that SSJ isn't x50, that only happened once, and only to one person - Goku on Namek. The Daizenshuu doesn't specifically state SSJ makes you 50x stronger, it just states that this happened to be the size of the gap between base Goku and SSJ Goku, at that particular time.
The Android Saga straight up proves SSJ isn't x50.
And yes, it's pretty clearly shown that the mastered version of Super Saiyan is the only thing that can go toe-to-toe with Cell, with SSJ2 later being revealed.
The reason I graded what we see was for the sake of ease - there ARE no graded forms, really.
What we see Trunks, Vegeta, Goku, and even Gohan do, are all different versions of Super Saiyan.
Only Goku and Gohan manage to grasp the concept of mastering the form, and they're the only ones who can keep up with Cell.
There's an enormous power difference between when Vegeta and Trunks fight Perfect Cell (and lose) and when Goku and Gohan fight Cell, and it's even outright stated in the manga they stayed in SSJ form that whole time to conserve power so they wouldn't waste any energy transforming - because this reserve energy could just be funneled back into their power output.
It's shown pretty clearly when Goku becomes exhausted after fighting Cell that mastering the SSJ form does NOT decrease energy drain or improve stamina, it just allows the form to output more power with a greater degree of control - which was the entire point, as Goku explained to Gohan in the ROSAT.
While I was using fan terms to deacribe each Saiyan's different use of the SSJ form, I was describing exactly what the manga shows us - each one escalates in power, with mastered Super Saiyan being on top, at least until SSJ2 is introduced when Gohan beats Cell
I dont believe any of this. Cell was toying with trunks and holding back significantly. He was even holding back against goku who was much stronger than trunks. Gohan beat cell in 2 shots he was not only faster but he was definitely stronger than any form of trunks.
Cell was holding back bc trunks was so slow he didn't have to do anything. I think they're equal in power but ssj2 is faster
@@ppnexus2000Cell took hits from trunks and they did no damage. Gohan had him on his knees with one hit.
Thank you it's like they just over look that
@@JJJJ-he8bz Watch the video, he explains that in the Manga that Trunks did not land a single blow on Cell.
@@arronjerden915 he knocked him into the ground multiple times dude. He not anywhere near as strong as gohan was gohan was making cell jrs explode by punching them
This is operating off a lot of head canon.
There's also the fact that a lot of the power scaling relating to grade 4 muddies a lot of this discussion. Grade 3 can't really stack onto grade 4 since grade 4 is built around increasing the grade 1 multiplier through mastery of the form whereas grade 3 involves trying to brute force the earlier grade 2 form (which itself is a brute force of grade 1).
In other words: through effortless use of the form, Goku and Gohan can increase their output in other areas since it requires less energy to maintain the transformation which can go towards other shit during a battle. And then you have the Super Saiyan 2 multiplier on top of that.
None of the characters in Dragon Ball really mastered this aside from Goku and Gohan. For all intents and purposes, Vegeta to my knowledge didn't ever obtain grade 4 after the Cell Games and has just been pushing himself through intense training. And with Future Trunks, we see him try to use grade 3 in his training with Vegeta during the Goku Black arc, which probably indicates that he hasn't ever obtained grade 4 either.
This also might be why Vegeta's SSJ2 is called "Super Vegeta" since its not really a perfect SSJ2 transformation. Its just stacked on top of grade 1 super saiyan.
*Cough* World Heavyweight Champion Deontay Wilder 😂Jokes aside though nice video, I agree.
Hopefully we get Wilder Vs Joshua next year lol and thanks
Yeah it is stronger but not faster which is its downfall and makes it beaten down easily and I think it consume more energy I think .🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Flaws:
1: Ki Consumation
2: Lower Speed.
3: Stanima issues.
1 or a Few Minutes later you find yourself Growing Weaking.. In the Manga Cell was only Dodging and Trunks tired himself. Cell did not even bother to fight back. He just let Trunks tired himself out.
Man look fuck grade 2 and grade 3 I'd rather just use the mastered super sayain form instead and when I play the dragon Ball games that's what I always intend to use over those forms anyway 👊💯. ..
If one could switch between ssj2 and Grade 3 mid punch similarly to what Vegeta and Goku managed later on with God and Blue this form could have had a much greater longevity but alas that was not the case.
Or even use it with beam clashes, which happen consistently in the show. Honestly, I feel like this could've been a thing that at least Vegeta used in the Buu/Beerus sagas, and maybe Trunks could've used it in the Goku Black saga since they'd be the only ones to benefit from this at the time
So you're saying that just because cell or anyone else didn't disprove grade 3 is stronger than grade 4 and ssj2 that it's stronger ik you provided proof but the anime and manga proves it's weaker than grade 4 cuz Goku 50% made everyone shit themselves so no I don't believe this
Fair point
The problem is that all the guides that include the grades, especially grade 4, say that grade 4 is the strongest and best version of Super Saiyan, and then SS2 and 3 and power ups on top of that. We also know Cell held back against Trunks, because Trunks’ power exceeds Cell’s, but then Goku SS Grade 4 at half of his power shocks and surprises Trunks, and Cell is more powerful than Goku. So Trunks surpassing Cell was clearly only because Cell held back against Trunks. So if Grade 3 Trunks is shocked by half Goku’s power, and full power Goku can’t beat Cell, and is only defeated by SS2 Gohan, then that means that SS2 is more powerful than Grade 3.
The whole SS1 x2 for SS2 thing doesn’t work if you apply it to Grade 1, Grade 4 is more powerful than Grade 1, they aren’t the same multiplier, because at Grade 4 you can bring out the full limits of Super Saiyan, so all the power of all the grades prior to 4 can be brought out to the max without any downsides, and then you x2 for SS2.
So based on base x50 for SS G1, then SS G2 is apparently x2 G1 based on one obscure guidebook which is the only one that gives a multiplier, and G3 is 10x that based on that Spanish guide. So Grade 3 is 1000x Grade 1, so we of course can’t do x2 to Grade 1 when we can see that SS2 is clearly the most powerful one of these, and Grade 4 is at least as strong or stronger than Grade 3, so 1000 x2 is SS2 at 2000x base.
Finally someone with a brain. Super Saiyam Grade 4 is called fucking FULL POWER Super Saiyan. It is being able to draw out ALL the power and potential of the transformation. Grade 3 is doing the same thing but your body CANNOT handle the extra power yet and so you become Hulk. Grade 3 is also defined as a form that pushes Super Saiyan to the limit. Now Grade 4 uses the form to the maximum extent. The strenght of the two forms is most likely equal, with grade 4 being able to nullify the speed and stamina drawback.
@@TheRealNightShot Exactly
also on top of all of that super saiyan grade 5 in deinzenshu is said to be the most powerful grade , so grade 3 cannot be stronger than grade 5 , which compliments your theory
Grade 4 isn't more powerful
Mastered ssj literally has the same multiplier of x50 base and the reason goku and Gohan as mastered ssj surpassed vegeta and trunks as ssj second and third grade is because of their different training methods
Vegeta and trunks only focused on surpassing the ssj form itself making the form itself stronger
Goku and Gohan did the same thing originally but they later changed their methods around and focused on improving their base forms power and improving the standard ssj form and stayed in it for longer periods of time so their body got used to it and it made their body think their ssj form was their base form
Mastered ssj literally has the same x50 base multiplier but without the stamina drawbacks, better ki control, and gives the user more speed while also taking away their malicious heart and the user no longer has to be angry to turn ssj
But unlike Mastered ssj, ssj second grade is said to increase the SPEED AND STRENGTH of the user and proof of this is vegeta became stronger and faster than semi perfect cell and and ssj third grade only increases strength while decreasing speed
Ssj second grade is likely only x75 base or x1.5 stronger than regular ssj
Proof for ssj2 and ssj third grade being most likely equal is, that ssj third grades trunks surpassed perfect cell and ssj2 Gohan also surpassed cell but the difference is trunks stated that Gohan learned to power up without the muscle mass increase and speed drawbacks but as the guy in the video states trunks using the form against ssj blue vegeta could be proof of grade 3 being stronger than ssj2
Also the only reason goku and Gohan as mastered ssjs were stronger than ssj second grade vegeta and trunks was because goku and Gohan had the stronger base power not the bigger multiplier
For example if two users had the same form but one had a bigger base then the person with the bigger base would still win
Because again for example if both of the users both had the ssj form but one user had a base power of 1,000,000 and the other user had a base power of 2,000,000 and they both transformed with their power multiplying by x50 their base power in their ssj form then the person with the base power of 2,000,000 in their ssj form would win because
User A: who has a base power of 1,000,000 would have a ssj power level of x50,000,000
While
User B: who has a base power of 2,000,000 would have a ssj power level of 100,000,000
And let's say vegeta and trunks as ssj second grade represented user A while goku and Gohan as mastered ssj represented user b
And guess what that Also means it means if goku went ssj second grade against cell then he would be stronger and faster than his mastered ssj form
@@mrdemiurge7680 you really overexplained simple concepts that didn’t need to be explained like that lol.
My whole point was the guidebooks state Grade 4 > Grade 3.
SS2 is also stated to be the most powerful and strongest grade of Super Saiyan (this was before SS3 existed ofc) so SS2 is also > Grade 3. Trunks only used it against Vegeta to purposely anger him as he made very clear in that scene.
Also as I covered in my original comment Cell lied when he said Trunks Grade 3 was stronger than him. Simply isn’t true because when Goku flexed only half his power for Korin, Trunks shat his pants. Grade 4 Goku > Grade 3 Trunks and Grade 2 Vegeta, but Grade 4 Goku wasn’t stronger than Perfect Cell. Most statements say Cell and Goku were equal, others say Cell was stronger. Either way, Perfect Cell > Grade 3 Trunks.
That's how Goku went from being in the Millions to the billions that and having Gohan as a training partner
Are you kidding me? Cell didn't even use all his strength to show that he was superior to Trunks! Against Goku, he had to use all his strength even when Goku didn't have the Super Saiyan!
Here's the issue.
If Grade 2 is stronger, and faster than Grade 1. Then it is clearly above a 50x multiplier. Grade 4 exceeds grade 2 by an amazing margin as implicated by Vegeta in Kai, and the manga. So this is important because we don't know the strength gap between Grade 3 and Grade 4, as even Trunks and Vegeta believed Goku was much stronger.
Furthermore, Cell surprised Trunks and Vegeta when he went full power, so you can argue that pre-tourney Perfect Cell was a weaker, or fresh off the boat. This is consistent with Kai as well, which is canon to the manga. Vegeta states Cell is 1,000x stronger than Goku, of course maybe not literally (but it is dragon ball). And Goku also damages cell, and tires him out...unlike Trunks nor Vegeta's final flash.
As shown Gohan SSJ2 Trunks states he did it without losing strength, so you could argue it is AS STRONG as SSJ2, but to say stronger... I don't know man.
Another factor is that the manga came out decades before the guides, so any literature changes and such is hard to consider since both material are canon.
In my humble opinion, I would argue SSJ2 is more like a 500x increase of base if we account for the statistics and missing variables. This isn't the Bible, we can't assume that all sources have to fit around one conclusion, that'd be circular reasoning. DB is flawed in a lot of cases, so it's hard to match everything together, but tell me your thoughts furthermore, I love the video nonetheless, and would never dislike it.
Fair points, but there’s one thing I have to point out.
You didn’t take base power increases into account.
@@galaxystudios370 True, but base power is not a factor as Goku and Gohan specifically trained the SSJ form alone; not their base.
SS2 is stronger because it requires you to channel all that power without any muscle increase and speed loss. Therefore, anyone who is capable of channeling and controlling that much energy is already much stronger than anyone who tries to use their power recklessly like grade 3. I don’t think you understand that being able to channel that much power is already a feat on its own. Goku and Gohan achieved a power greater than Trunks and Vegeta in grade 3 and they were even able to achieve that power by training their bodies to withstand that much energy without any muscle increase, meaning that Goku and Gohan’s training is 100x better than anything Trunks and Vegeta did in the time chamber
In Dragon Ball Multiverse toornament we see Future Trunks find a way to make the bulky form useful
SSJ third grade is my favorite form beside LSSJ, muscle bulk gang!💪
Do a what if grade 3 didnt decrease speed.
Become a Super Saiyan like it's second nature no effort whatsoever
Not sure if you'll see this but there's one major issue with this video and theory, if Grade 3 Ssj is 10× that of Ssj1 or in other words a 500× multiplier which surpasses Ssj3's multiplier, or is at least >Ssj2, Vegeta could have and would have used such a massively powerful form and multiplier during his self destruction and would have successfully killed Majin Buu, in all honesty, Cell saying Trunks in Grade 3 is "stronger than him" can be true, but he can also be suppressed and his statement would still be true but would only apply to his suppressed self.
wrong bro in cell saga goku and gohan went beyond ssj grade 3 becoming a mastered ssj which is why goku in normal ssj for was stronger than trunks ssj grade3 and gohan surpassed the mastered ssj becoming ssj2 so ssj grade 3 should be nowhere near ssj2
if you remember ultra trunks did land a lot of hits on cell(suppressed) and cell still stood up like nothing happened,
but ssj2 gohan hit him only twice that too when cell was using full power and cell was down to his last breath.
when cell came back in super perfect form gohan ssj2 could only fight with one hand and still surpassed cells power. argument of others helping is not valid as their power was nowhere even close.
LO Nymeria grade 4 isn’t stronger than grade 3 it just makes up in the speed department but in raw strength it’s weaker
Cade Mann No it’s not
Grade 3 is technically stronger by strength than ssj3
My theory is this: A very trained ss goes to grade 3 when powering up to 100%. A ss that has mastered the form to the point that it becomes a second base form goes to grade 4 when powering up to 100%. Vegeta says this. The difference is how much power the body can sustain, the training goku and gohan did allowed them to go full power without any drawbacks. When it becomes a new base form, you transform again, but this time is ss2.
Hey Shane, one of the most important pieces of evidence we have on Grade 3's strength is how strong Goku got with it during his RoSaT training. Gohan seems to have caught up to Goku and Goku hasn't seemingly made any tremendous gains as of yet while still pondering how he will go beyond Super Saiyan. When he discovers the Grade forms, he ends up surpassing even Semi-Perfect Cell, who can tank Android 16, who can tank Piccolo's Light Grenade. This is a HUGE mountain to scale and Goku is able to do it with his Grade 3 form. Super Saiyan 2 was never suggested to be this large of a boost and before we ever get to Super we already have solid evidence suggesting Grade 3 > Ssj2.
Really good points
@@RevoluShane Thank you brother, I would love to discuss some interesting topics with you. Do you have Discord or what forums do you frequent?
interesting explanation. ssj grade 3 might actually be useful in circumstances where your opponent is massively slower than you if you were any other grade of ssj but you just need the extra power/strength to land damaging blows that you might not be able to perform in most other grades. Take a slower yet tankier opponent, sure ss grade 2 or 4 but be able to easily blitz this opponent, but if you're not doing any feasible damage, then that speed nerf for power buff might be worth the trade-off. Especially considering the possibility that Grade 3's raw power/ki multiplier is 10x over even grade 1-2-4 making it even better than ssj2's multiplier (ascended super saiyan)
This simply gets debunked. MSSJ Goku powers up to 50% and all of them are in shock, even Vegeta and Trunks.
Lmao exactly - debunked real quick
EXPLODE!!! ! It’s not because of the transformation, ssj grade 3 and ssj 2 have at least the same power.
@@KorinIta They’re not even close.
@@baldhead7759 why?
I always see these kinds of videos in my sections and I love how you try to prove wrongs facts. Ssj 2 is 2x ssj ssj grade 3 is 1.25x ssj
the ssj Dai San Dankai is x10 times stronger (only stronger) than an SSJ, therefore it has more strength (only more physical strength) than an SSJ3
Cell was still holding back on trunks while he was full power on gohan getting shitted on
Ssj Grade 3 is just the form sayains use to attract Sayain Chicks. 😏😏
I would've loved if trunks mastered the grade 3 to the point of zero speed and stamina loss and make it his own ssj 2.5
Grade 3 is literally the strength of Ssj2 without the speed. That's why goku doesn't even try it during Perfect Cell. (Good point tho)
No it isn’t
The only reason this works for Broly Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan his energy is always increasing
I thought that too, but then I remembered Cell had his own version of grade 3, which I'm pretty sure was stronger than saiyans grade 3, he bulked up as last ditch effort against Gohan, after he went full power (Same as mastered/grade 4 Goku but far stronger).
But he got one shot.
When Cell admitted Trunks was stronger than him did he mean
Stronger than my full power level?
or
Stronger than my current power level?
It's just an anime thing. In the manga Cell was way too fast for Trunks to do any significant damage.
Why didn’t you take this a step further. If we base that 10x line the way you say, and use Trunks vs Vegeta as a reference point, then presumably Grade 3 should be physically stronger than SSJ3 as well. I don’t believe that by any stretch, and I believe what Goku said to Caulifla about going for SSJ2 next that Grade 5 is physically greater than Grade 3 in terms of power
This video is so flawed.. Grade 3 is not stronger than SSJ2.. and when cell stated Trunks was stronger than him..he meant a (NON POWERED Up Cell) Think about it!! why do you think at the end of there fight did he ask him if he can get stronger?
Also Cell was able to physically harm a powered up Trunks.. when his strongest punch didn’t even phase..SSJ2 Gohan.. LOL how could grade 3 be stronger than grade 5..This video is silly
1st off no he didn’t mean that.
2nd, in the Manga Cell didn’t land a single blow against Ssj grade 3 Trunks, he didn’t need to. This comment is flawed and silly
RevoluShane That’s in the Manga ..And what do you mean he didn’t need too? Grade 3 is not stronger than SSJ2 go read the manga again
Yup and I am referring to the DBZ manga in this video.
Yikes.
“Why Super Saiyan Grade 3 is stronger than Super Saiyan 2,” and other jokes I like to tell myself.
My opinion is: Super Saiyan 2 giving you more ki, speed and both offense and defense. The Super Saiyan grade 3 (or Ultra Super Saiyan for short) give the user a massively buff of muscles and ki, maybe larger than Super Saiyan 2, but it also deplete the speed which made it almost useless if fighting with an opponent has the ability to dodge even faster than Goku Full Power Super Saiyan like Cell or Janemba,...
Good opinion
There's not enough proof that Super Saiyan grade 3 is stronger than Super Saiyan 2 because you have to remember Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was vastly more powerful than perfect form cell and even perfect cell. The only reason why Gohan struggled is because cell injured his arm. Gohan was only able to use one arm and because of this Gohan's power was cut down in half do you not remember that crucial scene and deciding factor. And Gohan still won in the Kamehameha Clash. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan hit perfect form Cell so hard that he threw up Android 18 with one blow. Super Saiyan grade 3 trunks landed one blow on perfect form cell but the punch had zero effect on perfect form cell
Can Gohan and Future Trunks Fuse?
Yes
I-isn’t ssj2 just Grade 3 with speed?...
No its not man
Yes but strong
Its says super saiyan 2 is 2x stronger than MSSJ which is proven to be stronger than ssj grade 3
No it’s not...grade 4 was stronger than grade 3
It doesn't matter the transformation Super Saiyan grade 3 lacks speed.
It's low on speed but high on strength.
The way the show and the guide books made it seem, on paper, was that Super Saiyan Grade 3 was equal in power to Super Saiyan 2 but was around 75% slower. So actually slower than regular Super Saiyan and Ascended Super Saiyan (Grade 2)
Super Saiyan 2 all the increased brute strength and raw power and incredible speed
It’s because 3 is bigger than 2
And I can't believe I didn't figure this out years ago
Nice video
So who is stronger ssj3 or grade 3?
Nah bro you're still wrong as f*** grade 3 is still weaker than Super Saiyan 2 because Gohan is still the same strength as Super Saiyan grade 3 because sell initially says that that he thinks that Gohan is fusing grave 3 and he tells them it's not going to work but Super Saiyan 2 as a perfect use of the power and mixes for you have the strength and the energy all at once
the ssj Dai San Dankai (Ultra SSJ, is x10 times stronger (only stronger) than an SSJ, therefore it has more strength (only more physical strength) than an SSJ3
Goku and Gohan did not follow Vegeta and Trunks his route they stuck with Super Saiyan and decided to home that instead
Good video Shane! I personally believe the best interpretation of the Spanish and French Guides is that
SSJ Grade 3 Future Trunks (Post Room of Spirit and Time) is 10x stronger than SSJ Grade 1 Future Trunks (Pre Room of Spirit and Time).
I think saying Grade 3 is above SSJ3 is a bit far fetched, but I do believe you have a good argument against Grade 5.
I do feel Goku implies to Caulifla that Grade 5 is the next step if you want to increase power.
But the Trunks and Vegeta sparring session is “irrefutable”. It’s like Toei was telling us. Trunks does power up from Grade 5 to Grade 3, implying that it’s physically stronger. However, that could also just be inflated ki, and he didn’t necessarily power up, but transforming into that stage automatically beefs you up. But it seemed more like he did power up from Grade 5 to Grade 3.
Again Shane great video! I’m not sold just yet, but you did a fantastic job!
Imo numbers would be;
PRE ROSAT
Trunks 4,800,000
SSJ 240,000,000
POST ROSAT
Trunks 32,000,000
SSJ 1,600,000,000
Grade Two 2,000,000,000
Grade Three 2,400,000,000.
If Grade 3 > Grade 5 then I would say Post RoSaT would be like this;
Trunks 16,000,000
SSJ 800,000,000
Grade Two 1,200,000,000
Grade Three 2,400,000,000
Just my opinion.
@Batman The grade 4 = grade 1 as a multiplier
@Batman The yeah because his base is stronger..
The Super Exciting Guide flat out says ssj is 50x and ssj2 is 2x a ssj.
Super Saiyan 2 is 2 times stronger than Super Saiyan 1 and Super Saiyan 1 is a 50 x base multiplier so that means that Super Saiyan 2 is a 100 x base multiplier.
I agree that it’s definitely possible that Grade 3 is stronger than SSJ2, but absolutely not SSJ3
What you forgot to realize is super saiyan 2 is super saiyan grade 5 so super saiyan grade 5 already has the strength of grade 3 as well as the multiplication of grade 4 and 5
The powerguides have never made any sense. SSj2 apparently only provides a double power boost over SSj. That means it only provides the same power boost as a Kaioken x2. Also is a SSj2=2xSSj1 or does SSj2=2xFull Power SSj? I assume it's the later otherwise that is no power at all. Meanwhile SSj3=4xSSj2 and yet SSj3 has not scored a single victory over anyone.
In my own headcanon it works like this:
Ssj=50x Base form
Ssj 2nd Grade=4x Ssj
Ssj 3rd Grade=2x 2nd Grade
Full Power Ssj=Ssj 3rd Grade without loss of speed
Ssj2=10x Full Power Ssj
Ssj3=2x Ssj2
way stronger then ssj1 but nowhere near ssj2. goku ssj2 was way stronger then gohans, as he had mastered it . when gohan was changing to ssj2 cell, was not worried until the point he felt the power surpass trunks in grade 3 then became worried and a little shocked.
So grade 3 is only good for arm wrestling
Or beam struggles
It isn't. Trunks hit cell a few times in Grade 3 and it didn't do any significant damage. Gohan on the other hand made cell shiver, go to his knees and spit out android 18 with only two punches, while cell was at full power. Against Trunks he didn't even power up.
If Grade 3 was that strong, they would use it for Kamahamahas, final flashes, etc. SSJ2 is stronger in both strength and speed, it's shown with the fact cell got two zenkai boost and was still weaker then Gohan. Gohan was holding back that whole ki clash with one arm, yes Vegeta hit Cell but remember Gohan had that power since the start of the ki clash. If Gohan spend all of his ki from the start cell would of been killed, but dragon ball logic.
That Would Not Work. Their Ki Is To Unstable. SS Grade 3 is Stronger in Raw Power.
No SSJ2 was stated to be stronger than SSJ Grade 3 because SSJ2 is 2x stronger than Mastered SSJ which is proven to be stronger than SSJ Grade 3.
SSJ2 >>> SSJ Grade 4 >>> SSJ Grade 3
This day can only be achieved by doing this kind of training for a whole year Non-Stop
That guidebook isn't canon
And that includes bulking the poem up constantly
Ssj full had a moltiplicator... but it's true that SSj grade 3 Is more High...
Sorry but I respectfully disagree.
Cell and Piccolo "confirming" that SSJ Grade 3 Trunks is only confirming the power that Cell is currently displaying is inferior to Trunks's. This is due to the reason that when Cell actually went full power against SSJ2 Gohan, everyone, including Trunks and Piccolo were shocked at how powerful Full Power Cell is. Additionally, after Goku and Gohan finished their HTC training, Goku showed 50% of his power that shocked everyone, once again INCLUDING Trunks and Piccolo, indicating that Goku 50% SSJGrade 4 > SSJGrade 3 Trunks. Goku then says that Cell is stronger than him, with Korin agreeing to that as well.
Additionally, if SSJGrade 3 Trunks was indeed THAT much more powerful, even surpassing SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell, then it'd make no sense that virtually everyone in the Buu saga says that Gohan and Cell were the strongest 7 years ago. Additionally, if the power increase were THAT significant, then Buff Cell would be the strongest in the Cell saga yet Super Perfect Cell and Gohan were still referred to as the strongest.
Trunks tricking Vegeta by going into SSJGrade 3 was something made by Toei Animation, not by the authors, so it isn't really reliable. That's kind of like saying SSJGrade 3 was trash because in the anime, Trunks was shown to hit Cell yet couldn't do significant damage to him. Even assuming that it is reliable, how does it prove that Grade 3 > SSJ2? Sure, Trunks could've dropped down to grade 2 or grade 1, but one could easily argue that he wanted his speed to become as low as it can possibly be to trick Vegeta. Vegeta stating that Trunks "relied" on SSJGrade 3 could very well just be him being more used to be in SSJGrade 3 compared to SSJ2.
Lastly, it was stated that when Cell came back and became Super Perfect, he gained a power up similar to Gohan's, which indicates that even when he went into his buff form, his increase in power WASN'T as great as the power up Gohan received when going SSJ2. Additionally, Kanzhenshuu 7 also confirmed that Super Perfect Cell was the strongest Version of Cell to ever exist, and this includes Super Perfect Cell. Super Perfect Cell is literally just Cell gone SSJ2(lighting effects were added similar to SSJ2). Thus, at best Grade 3 increases power nearly as much as SSJ2, but never equal or above SSJ2.
So Super Saiyan Grade 3 without the drawbacks would be a nigh perfect form.
If the third grade SSJ increased all aspects and did not slow down the warrior, it would be more effective than using the SSJ3.
@@dynamis5554 It definitely could be far more useful than SSJ3. I like your thinking.
Man... Cell saga was really the last time ssj was interesting and worth talking about. All the different forms could have been used to give characters the ability to put their own spin on the ssj transformation, which would have been sick
It doesn't matter what the numbers mean and the power levels. You have to keep in mind that not all Saiyans have the same base power level. First though let's list the characters who can use Super Saiyan grade 3 aka Ultra Super Saiyan. Trunks, Vegeta, Goku and Cell. All of these characters can tap into that power. Trunks first showed this power when fighting Perfect Cell. Vegeta could do it too but Trunks found out later because he didn't know of its weakness. Vegeta can do it of course. Goku demonstrated this power in front of Gohan when they were training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Perfect Cell demonstrated this form in front of Trunks right when their battle ended and he expanded his muscles like Trunks did. Perfect Cell also showed this form during his fight against Super Saiyan 2 Gohan but much bigger. Gohan is more powerful because everyone sense Gohan going full power and realized that his power was a bit greater than Goku! This means that Gohan's base power is greater than that of Vegeta, Trunks, Goku and Perfect Cell! If Gohan could go Ultra Super Saiyan then he would be stronger than Vegeta, Trunks, Goku and Perfect Cell's Grade 3 aka Ultra SS form. Super Saiyan 2 is far more powerful than Grade 3 because it has far greater strength, defense, power output and speed. Gohan demonstrated this feat by hitting Ultra Perfect Cell with one blow causing to be so damaged and also later on spit out Android 18. Also, this same Cell hit Gohan in Super Saiyan 2 and it barely did any damage. Those are feats I mentioned show in the anime and doesn't need numbers or multiplier crap to support it. This same injured Super Saiyan 2 Gohan destroyed Cell Jrs. in one blow while Ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta and Trunks struggled with fighting one Cell Jr. That is a massive difference in physical strength. That's not even Gohan using energy. Lastly, Super Saiyan 2 Gohan defeated Super Perfect Cell aka Cell having the power of Super Saiyan 2 with a one handed kamehameha which was suppose to be only half of Gohan's energy. Remember not everyone has the same base power level. If your base power level sucks then any of your transformations will suck as well compared to someone with a higher base power level.
I think this is genius I can't believe I never thought of it
I disagree
Yup
Has Trump showed Ultra Super Saiyan great 3 can evolve by continuously bulking up
And cell was still suppressing his power
And right before Vegeta would hit him trunks with bulk up that part that he would hit for added defense
I feel isn't Stronger but more like equal or close to being as strong
ssj2>ssj grade 4 which is stated in the dizwnshuu to be stronger then ssj grade 3 gg
Idk of you showed the right image but the french version actually never state that the super sayan grade 3 is ten times stronger than the super sayan, at least not on the page you showed
Amazing one here!
Instead of bulking up the whole body trunks what bulk up certain parts of his body
I use to think Ultra Saiyan Trucks was more powerful than SSJ2. But SSJ2 ascends and or evolves. SSJ2 Vegeta took a beating from Beerus, and hit him good, while SSJ3 Goku almost died after two light hits from Beerus.
The reason why cell was destroying trunks in 3rd grade because you gane a lot of strength in it but you lose all stanima and agilaty
Are you kidding me SSJ2 > SSJG3
Ultra Super Saiyan could necessarily become stronger than Super Saiyan 2
There is no grade 4 unless you count Broly the Legendary Super Saiyan transformation
grade 4 is just grade 1 xD