The Life and Murders of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2024

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  • @michellebaker1974
    @michellebaker1974 4 ปีที่แล้ว +188

    Thank you for remembering and honoring Leno and Rosemary. May they rest in Heavenly peace.

    • @forpetessake3532
      @forpetessake3532 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      IF ... they were SAVED by JESUS CHRIST. MOST rich only worship themselves and their POSSESSIONS

    • @alanna8983
      @alanna8983 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@forpetessake3532 go to hell!
      How dare you disrespect the dead!!

    • @michellebaker1974
      @michellebaker1974 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      ​@@forpetessake3532I believe they were saved. By God 🙏

    • @LeeTheVet
      @LeeTheVet 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@forpetessake3532 True, but we cannot judge others as HE says.

  • @christyt4249
    @christyt4249 3 ปีที่แล้ว +58

    I have always found it even sadder that the victims really became so lost in all the craziness of this case. And this is especially true for the Labianca’s and Stephen Parent. It became mostly about Manson and his minions. And they deserve no attention.
    So thank you for doing videos about the ones that really mattered in all of this. And telling us about their lives and not just their murders. Because it is easy to forget that these victims were real people, with their own hopes and dreams.

    • @SleepyJukebox-vv9dy
      @SleepyJukebox-vv9dy 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I'm glad that somebody is finally doing a piece on Rosemary and Lena Labianca. It also seems like they forget poor Steven Parent, his family was not rich or famous. They didn't even bother to call his parents, when they finally identified him

    • @mariaconway4241
      @mariaconway4241 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Dont forget Gary Hinman and Donald 'Shorty' Shaw

    • @GaryGladney-p3c
      @GaryGladney-p3c 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mariaconway4241 Donald 'Shorty' Shea

    • @MarciaHooley-fr7qj
      @MarciaHooley-fr7qj 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I loved the interview with Leno's first wife, Alice LaBianca. Such a sharp lady!
      She wrote a book about Leno's life titled NO MORE TOMORROWS
      REST IN PEACE Leno & Rosemary

    • @MarciaHooley-fr7qj
      @MarciaHooley-fr7qj 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Steve Parent was the Ron Goldman of the Manson case.

  • @SaucyWench7
    @SaucyWench7 4 ปีที่แล้ว +261

    This is just incredible. The detail, trivia, matchbooks, clippings. This brings them to LIFE, instead of just paper cutouts we read about. Makes one furiously angry at the undignified horrid death.

    • @tjp2109
      @tjp2109 4 ปีที่แล้ว +20

      Yes. Best video I've seen on TH-cam in a long time.

    • @remmymafia3889
      @remmymafia3889 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Kudos to Scott Michael's for his dedication to what many consider the most heinous murder in the areas history, and maybe the country, if not the world. The random reason as to why both locations were chosen, and the total unfamiliarity of the victims and their killers. If the LaBianca's had left their side/back door unlocked, as the best account says they did, then it would have been interesting as to how they would have entered the house. At the Tate house, they simply had a window screen to slice, as the window was open. Plus, there, the area of the house where that window was, was on the side of the house that nobody was in. But at the La Bianca house, with the side/back door supposedly opened, we'll never know if a securely locked door, would have changed things much. Another hypothesis is had Leno's son Frank Struther Jr., who lived there, had came back to the house late Saturday night with Leno and Rosemary-would that have changed things? Tex and Manson would have had this 15 yr old teenager to deal with also, which might have created a wrinkle in the situation. The kid could have resisted and forced big Tex to take him out right there, which would have freaked out Rosemary and Leno, and forced Manson himself to maybe have to actually kill someone. But given Watson's maniacal (and effective) killing prowess that he exhibited the night before at the Tate house, I'm guessing a reluctant 15 yr old wouldn't have changed the outcome. At best, the kid bolts outside, and uses his youth to sprint away-now what MIGHT come into play then, would be the Ford Fairlane with five potential killers sitting in it, right. Where is it parked? Does the kid see it and them? Do they see him, and attempt to corral him? After all, Grogan is in the car, and he might have been able to corral Frank Jr., and with maybe a Patricia Krenwinkle in tow, and coming off her brutal unassisted slashing death of Abigail Folger, again wielding a knife, she starts in on Frank Jr., while Clem holds him down. Food for thought.

    • @katperson1955
      @katperson1955 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      They should be remembered for how they lived more than how they died.

    • @leemcbride8146
      @leemcbride8146 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@katperson1955 - Sounds like a fortune cookie.

    • @lesliegoodman-malamuth9796
      @lesliegoodman-malamuth9796 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@leemcbride8146 My first therapist asked me, “How do you think cliches got to be cliches? They’re repeated because they’re true.” Of course we should remember the LaBiancas by their lives. But if not for their horrific deaths, we’d’ve never heard of them. (I was an adolescent, growing up elsewhere in LA County, in 1969. It’s still a most memorable year.)

  • @NSHM122
    @NSHM122 4 ปีที่แล้ว +60

    It gave me chills when you talked about how the LaBiancas likely had been discussing the murders of Sharon Tate and her friends as they drove home after picking up a newspaper. Never in a millions years would they ever have guessed the murders weren't complete yet and would forever be known at the Tate/ La Bianca murders. It was so random. LA has millions of people and who knows why their house was picked. I've seen the pictures of how they looked when they were found and it must have been unimaginable horror for their children.

    • @katperson1955
      @katperson1955 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      TheSylentTV - The LaBianca house was next door to a house where the Manson family had partied.

    • @SleepyJukebox-vv9dy
      @SleepyJukebox-vv9dy 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Chilling not knowing that the same thing was getting ready to happen to them

    • @therealhousewifeofballtown
      @therealhousewifeofballtown 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      That’s what made it frightening to so many that it could have been them

    • @junemoonchild69
      @junemoonchild69 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I don't believe it was random, at all, there's always a connection of some sort, no matter how indirect or distant it would seem.

    • @junemoonchild69
      @junemoonchild69 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@katperson1955Thank you. There's the connection and my point verified.

  • @lindafurr2404
    @lindafurr2404 4 ปีที่แล้ว +277

    What terror they faced. None of this should have happened. Never let the remaining murderers out of prison.

    • @brigidvanparys2062
      @brigidvanparys2062 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      That is one of the hardest parts when a loved one is murdered. How scared they must of been.

    • @mikepatrick5909
      @mikepatrick5909 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      only Steve Grogan has ever been paroled...don't as me why...

    • @robgeorgia8801
      @robgeorgia8801 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      @Louise Gross
      She was never prosecuted. She testified against the others.

    • @kevinmitchell4018
      @kevinmitchell4018 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      U are absolutely right honey!!! None of thm bitches shuld ever see the light of day!!

    • @johncitizen3927
      @johncitizen3927 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      make murder a crime in this pussy ass country. the killers die.period. see how punishment works ???

  • @riccali3519
    @riccali3519 2 ปีที่แล้ว +42

    Rosemary LaBianca's daughter Susan at one point testified at one of Tex Watson's parole
    hearings. She felt that he was genuinely remorseful for having murdered her mother, stepfather
    and the seven people who he killed the night before. She was adamant that he had been
    rehabilitated. Needless to say her support of Tex infuriated the families of the other victims.

    • @glendalangley1877
      @glendalangley1877 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Yea. Well Mark David Chapman supposedly is a born again Christian. I hope he is. Still there’s no way I’d advocate him getting out of prison. John Lennon once remarked he didn’t want to die at the age of 40. He was 40 when he was gunned down. There’s a lot to that story too that makes one wonder about what really happened that fateful night.

    • @georgialee6755
      @georgialee6755 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yes very strange Rosemarys airhead daughter wanted him released. Tex is very evil and diabolical! He should never be released. Can’t believe she did not think about the hell her mom went through. The Tates and Leno’s kids and his ex wife were furious understandably

    • @LamarJennings-eo8ps
      @LamarJennings-eo8ps 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      That monster has never showed any remorse for the murders

  • @Sarahbuildsstepsequencers
    @Sarahbuildsstepsequencers 2 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Fate is such a spooky thing, isn’t it? Just going about their day, as was the Manson family, never knowing what they were headed to and how awful it would be when their lines connected…rest in peace, Rosemary and Leno.
    *Thank you, Scott.* I really appreciate the considerable work and research you do. And I imagine for you, it’s a labor of love.

  • @eej1983able
    @eej1983able 2 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    It's crazy that Rosemary commented on the tragedy of the Tate murders THE NIGHT she and Leno were killed. Wow. So incredibly sad 😔

    • @steelhurricane4041
      @steelhurricane4041 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It's not odd, the crime just happened.

    • @staceymichaels9530
      @staceymichaels9530 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Very sad and extremely unfortunate.

  • @gloriavaldez1560
    @gloriavaldez1560 4 ปีที่แล้ว +178

    Nice to know them as they lived instead always how they were viciously murdered

  • @willfade7994
    @willfade7994 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    It's trippy that I ran across this randomly on August 9th. Today marks the anniversary of the Tate murders. The story still fascinates me all these years later and that all happened 10 years before I was born. Thank you for this great tour. Those people never should have died and in such horrific ways. How terrifying.
    May they Rest In Peace.
    🙏🏻

  • @Katee586
    @Katee586 4 ปีที่แล้ว +153

    Honestly, I don't think there is a lot known about this couple, because Sharon Tate was so famous, her murder and of her guests received much more coverage. Just my opinion, so thank you for this.

    • @jeffgarberding4499
      @jeffgarberding4499 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Manson actually got physically involved in this case. He brought if I remember correctly the same crew as the night before. This time Charlie went into the house alone. When he came out he told them what to do.. Charlie hitched home, the y went in and finished the job.

    • @maureenhansen3308
      @maureenhansen3308 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Jeff Garberding Leslie Van Houten (sp?) was new to that 2nd night.

    • @thesunwillcomeoutwaitandse2373
      @thesunwillcomeoutwaitandse2373 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@jeffgarberding4499I believe Kasabian was with them as well. I think Charlie and Kasabian left in the car and the murderers hitched home. Atkins was not ever in the La Bianca house. And, ironically enough, The daughter of either Leno or Rosemary, I'm sorry I can't remember which, has befriended Charles "Tex" Watson, the "head murderer" so to speak. She was among those who found the bodies.

    • @thesunwillcomeoutwaitandse2373
      @thesunwillcomeoutwaitandse2373 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @cubomania3 The whole thing was hashed out in the book by Sharon's sister. Apparantly there were some shady doings that went on.

    • @janeth.3819
      @janeth.3819 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I agree

  • @debbiem9218
    @debbiem9218 2 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Thank you Scott. I was only 11 years old when the LaBianca's were murdered but I remember everyone around me talking about the Manson murders. Your videos are always so informative and interesting. May the LaBianca's and all the other lost souls from the Manson murders rest in peace.

  • @meaty220
    @meaty220 4 ปีที่แล้ว +159

    I really appreciate how you do a physical walkthrough of the locations during your narration. It makes the story easier to follow / visualize. 👍

    • @KayOz-u1v
      @KayOz-u1v ปีที่แล้ว +3

      You do a superb job telling the victims story you rally bring to life thank you

  • @donnarama1
    @donnarama1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    I feel so sorry for the Labiancas.They died so horribly and violently.I hope they had a good life and are resting in peace.

    • @glendalangley1877
      @glendalangley1877 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      They all died horribly. They all had plenty of life to live had this evil never had touched them.

  • @litaperna1128
    @litaperna1128 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    You honor by making them real and not just grisly headlines. Thank you for your respect.

  • @yes2day100
    @yes2day100 4 ปีที่แล้ว +201

    They were neighbors of mine when I was a teenager. Their older daughter had been in my sister's class in high school, and the son was in my younger sister's class. My mother sold them their home. It was a horrible shock.

    • @portiamatthews9654
      @portiamatthews9654 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

      Thank you for sharing your story. This was indeed a horrific murder of two innocent people.

    • @heyokaempath5802
      @heyokaempath5802 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

      The house was owned by Leno's mother. It was his family home.

    • @lorraineforte9175
      @lorraineforte9175 4 ปีที่แล้ว +25

      Yes2day100
      Did you know the daughter wanted her Mother's murderer to go free? I couldn't believe it till I saw the video with my own eyes. Mrs Tate was livid. Do you know anything about that daughter? She must be insane.

    • @yes2day100
      @yes2day100 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@lorraineforte9175 I did not know that. She was already out of high school, as was my older sister, so I never knew she was like that. How long after the murders did she say she wanted them to go free?

    • @lorraineforte9175
      @lorraineforte9175 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Yes 2day100
      It looked like it was in the nineties, because Doris Tate wad still alive. She was advocating for Tex Watson's release.

  • @carmelabozulich4037
    @carmelabozulich4037 2 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    The Manson reign of terror is etched in my brain, I was a young teen when the murders happened & read everything the LA Times printed. Everyone was scared…and these poor folks, who seemed like such decent people, drew the short straw, sadly. Thank you for bringing them to life, so to speak, again.

  • @conquesotador
    @conquesotador 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    My Dad’s funeral was in that chapel at Calvary in 2018. It is a massive place, and the crypts are massive as well. My husband and I walked the halls of the crypts before the mass started and saw, unfortunately, almost every wall occupied by a serviceman from just about every war of the 20th century. Very young men, some not even 20.
    The chapel itself is beautiful, all in marble. My Dad is in a niche in the cremation wall, and most of his family is in the cemetery as well, peppered all over. It’s a lovely cemetery.

  • @debbiemoeller2169
    @debbiemoeller2169 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Still gives me the chills about the Manson murders. Just horrific. Thank you Scott.

  • @ritamarie2976
    @ritamarie2976 4 ปีที่แล้ว +86

    Hardly anyone gives out matches anymore. Another sign of the times. Great video!

    • @Melinda8162
      @Melinda8162 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Rita Marie Probably because you can’t smoke in places anymore! And, if they do, they use the ole Bic lighter! 😁😒. Yeah.

    • @mikepatrick5909
      @mikepatrick5909 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      But back in those days half the population smoked..lol

    • @Melinda8162
      @Melinda8162 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      mike patrick Yeah.... I did! We all did, my friends and family. SINCE then there are quite a few ‘ no longer here ‘. It may not have been good for you, but, man those were the days! Nobody bitchin’ about everything you do!!!

    • @PK-bh1ww
      @PK-bh1ww 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@mikepatrick5909 half? More like 90%. Watch old movies ans game shows off the 1950's. 1st thing they did (including women in evening gowns) ws light up a cig. when they meet. Game shows gave away cartons for prizes. And smoked during talk shows and game shows. My how times have changed. :-)

    • @ritamarie2976
      @ritamarie2976 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I can remember going with my dad to his doctor. The doctor’s ashtray was over flowing and he was smoking a cigarette while he was listening to my dad’s chest. Cigarette manufacturers used to make “holiday themed” cartons. You’re correct a lot of people smoked, including pregnant women. I don’t smoke, thankfully. Because I don’t know how you can afford to be a 2 pack/day smoker.

  • @sandysmith6178
    @sandysmith6178 4 ปีที่แล้ว +59

    Thank you Scott for a beautiful and for remembering the victims. I enjoyed the video. It just makes me so sad to know how brutal the murders were on all of these victims. How they begged for their lives.

  • @jennifermartin8628
    @jennifermartin8628 4 ปีที่แล้ว +80

    Thanks for this. As you probably know, Frank Jr. died in in Placentia in 2017, age 63. Acute respiratory failure, sepsis, cirrhosis of the liver. Poor guy. Another Manson victim.

    • @brigidvanparys2062
      @brigidvanparys2062 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      So true. 😢💔

    • @zampieritto
      @zampieritto 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Sure manson ruined his life. Got drinking problems

    • @ninamc6116
      @ninamc6116 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      That’s so sad

    • @cindygish9064
      @cindygish9064 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Oh so sad. Thanks 4 the info Yes another victim 😰

  • @MicheleMJJ
    @MicheleMJJ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +40

    What a fantastic and respectful video. I had never seen pictures of the LaBianca's anywhere when they were younger. . Such nice people with a great life. So very sad their lives were taken for no reason. Just the evil ways of Charles Manson and his family, I feel bad for all murdered at Sharon Tate's home too. So many good lives taken in the prime of their lives. I was 15 when this happened and I will never get over the shock.. Still today it breaks my heart for all the victims. They will never be forgotten.

  • @LeAnimal65
    @LeAnimal65 4 ปีที่แล้ว +46

    Thanks for making & sharing this video, Scott! I thought I had seen everything related to their murders reading Helter Skelter & watching your 6 degrees DVD (which I've watched at least half a dozen times) but this was even more informative on the couple as people, not just victims. Too bad they couldn't have stayed at the lake 1 more night...

  • @bonjani1
    @bonjani1 2 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    It was no accident indeed it was divine intervention that that young man did not go in that house initially when he arrived by himself.. to have discovered those bodies alone... And a footnote on Frank Struthers , Rosemary's son by her first marriage, he passed away in 2017

    • @georgialee6755
      @georgialee6755 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      bonjani1 Frank the son could have also been a victim. That Saturday his mom and Leno went to pick him up at a Lake where he’d been with a friend and was supposed to go home with them. But luckily Frank asked to stay until the next day, Sunday. His mom and Leno luckily said yes.

  • @psychcorp4449
    @psychcorp4449 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Scott's ability to collect memorabilia and information is unmatched. This video is a wonderful follow-up to "6 Degrees of Helter Skelter" which is a tremendous production. Thank you so much for your dedication to making interesting videos which preserve the memories of the locations and people presented. Stay safe and be well.

  • @sandyc.5017
    @sandyc.5017 3 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    You did a great job on this. Never knew much about them. So sad. Thanks for keeping their memory alive.

  • @TheOCMarc
    @TheOCMarc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +88

    It’s so strange to remember a time when phone books listed your name, address, and phone number. Any stranger could call you-but didn’t (cuz long distance was too expensive)🤣

    • @ShinbiBelldandy
      @ShinbiBelldandy 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      And you had to pick up the yearly phone book! They were free, but you had to either have it delivered or in my case pick it up from the lobby. The yellow pages were for the residents & local businesses & later the white pages were for business!

    • @bracita15
      @bracita15 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      OC marc A lot of us didn’t list our names, address or phone number in Ma’ Bell’s White Pages. I do remember when the new phone books were left outside our door in July or August though.

    • @cathyhornbarger8693
      @cathyhornbarger8693 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Phone books are still distributed, with names addresses and ph #s

    • @cathyhornbarger8693
      @cathyhornbarger8693 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      kendall Evans in VA and NC

    • @cathydefelice6807
      @cathydefelice6807 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'm my grandparents day some phone books had your occupation so you were calling the correct John Smith. We are talking 1930s...My grandfather was a Sargent in the Manhattan Police department. People were evil then also.

  • @Decgyrrl
    @Decgyrrl 4 ปีที่แล้ว +65

    I did a little reading up on them as well. I also believe that they met in 59, (I was born that December. ) I know he served his country, 4 which I sincerely thank him 🇺🇸& she was a striking woman, in her day♀. They also did a lot of travelling. It seemed they enjoyed each other's company. They would both b in their 90s now & they were robbed of that. May they rest in peace.🕆🕆🕊🕊☮

    • @katperson1955
      @katperson1955 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      From all accounts, they deeply loved each other and definitely deserved to live and grow old together. The barbarity and lack of anything remotely related to a conscience in these killers is impossible to relate to. Murder is the ultimate in cruel theft. They took something that can never be returned to the victims or their families and impacted their families and loved ones for the rest of their lives.

    • @cynthiahusband106
      @cynthiahusband106 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Tex Watson and one of the 3girls remaining , all are coming up for parole I believe in 2022 Sharon Tate’s sister attends the parole hearings, so the parole board (maybe they were born later then 1969, never know) to remind the board of the horrific , horrendous way these poor people died, the way they all died not even fit for an animal to be killed in the manner in which they died.God bless Sharon Tate’s sister for going to these hearing I do believe she is the only one who attends to fight to keep them ( that are still alive , Atkins died in prison) locked up forever.

    • @caraqueno
      @caraqueno 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Why don't you thank the teachers that taught both of them (and, you) how to read, write, and socialize, rather than honor time spent (forcibly) in the military? The teachers are the true heroes of any society, not the soldiers.

    • @glendabarton45barton48
      @glendabarton45barton48 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@cynthiahusband106 Leslie van Houten, one of the laBianca killers, was up for parole but I believe the Governor has denied it. I don't see how anyone who did what they did could live with themselves.

    • @914sandi
      @914sandi 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      P p

  • @jeanettemcdonald5779
    @jeanettemcdonald5779 4 ปีที่แล้ว +37

    You really brought some life to this story, very tragic, hopefully those killers will never be released from prison.

    • @donnajackson2907
      @donnajackson2907 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      There is no way, that he remaining prisoners of this cult, will EVER be released. Other people who have committed murder, can do a term of 25 years, and be released, depending on circumstances, of course, but for someone who killed another human being, in a fit of rage, it passion, can easily be paroled in 25 years. The people will NEVER be released. Originally they were given the death penalty, but soon after incarceration, the death penalty was abolished, so their sentences were commuted to life in prison. They truly mean life!! There is always a member of Sharon Tates family present, and members of other victims families, that are there to make sure that they are never paroled. Honestly, I dont b.c. think any of them have a chance, with or without the activists, and their impact statements. The crimes were just too heinous, to ever be set free. Besides that, someone on the outside, would likely kill them. Nope!! They are staying put!!

    • @katperson1955
      @katperson1955 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@donnajackson2907 - Thankfully…I still fail to understand how people who committed a crime so incredibly brutal that they all were sentenced to death were allowed to be considered for parole. They should have been transitioned to life with no possibility of parole, ever.

    • @glendabarton45barton48
      @glendabarton45barton48 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@donnajackson2907 Governor Newsome has denied the parole for Leslie van Houten, who went through the parole hearing. She was one of the laBianca killers. He said he believed she is still a danger to society. I think it could be true because I don't believe they've ever given up their devotion to Charles Manson. Having met some of them, I can say they are some of the creepiest people I ever met, positively insectoid, almost not human. That movie about Hollywood nailed it. He got their evil zombie like essence perfectly.

    • @glendabarton45barton48
      @glendabarton45barton48 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Soundofsilence-j4d Well I met them so I know better than you

  • @markjoll4825
    @markjoll4825 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Thanks, Scott and Co., for these really great vlogs about the LaBiancas and Jay Sebring. It's really nice to see their humanity given back to them.

  • @sixxrachel
    @sixxrachel 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Subscribed after seeing the Jane Mansfield video. I am now hooked on your videos, also this is a great idea to show us how a victim’s life was before and after death, can’t wait for more!!

  • @vivienap
    @vivienap 4 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    I must say, out of everything I subscribe to on TH-cam I most look forward to your posts. They are very well done with so many interesting details. I also appreciate how you present the facts in a non- judgemental way. Always looking forward to the next post!

  • @remmymafia3889
    @remmymafia3889 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    First, thanks to Scott, for taking the time put together these great, detailed oriented videos. Specifically, his recognition of 1969's Manson murders, over the course of two nights in LA. His Jay Sebring video, was incredible- traveling back to Jay's hometown among other efforts by Scott. This one here, is also off the charts. Rosemary working at the Brown Derby in Los Feliz, her two children from a previous marriage, and their movements during the tragic night. I mean, the revelation that her 17 yr old son, who lived at the house on Waverly Dr., and could have been murdered along with his mom and step father Leno, except for the fact that he stayed overnight at the lake, where they had been boating. The son, coming upon a darkened house, with the car and boat parked on the curb,.... in the dark the next day? (Sunday) He did the right thing, by not even attempting to enter the home, as he was aware of the Tate murders that were all over the newspapers that day. Incredible detail Mr. Michaels.

  • @no.3royston612
    @no.3royston612 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    A great vlog. The LaBiancas often get forgotten about so it's nice to have more details about them. Laura x

    • @glendalangley1877
      @glendalangley1877 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Not really. It’s always been referred to as the Tate/ LaBianca murders.

    • @leval1000
      @leval1000 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Gary Hinman is the one that’s never remembered tbh.

  • @saltrisha1
    @saltrisha1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +140

    You passed my little sisters grave in calvary,shes buried under the tree next to the second 3d monument you passed!

    • @hollylynn9322
      @hollylynn9322 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

      Sorry for your loss Sal❣🕊

    • @grammy965
      @grammy965 4 ปีที่แล้ว +18

      She's an angel now ! 🙏

    • @Altered4n892t
      @Altered4n892t 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Sal Ramos very sorry for your loss of your sister 😢. I’ve lost 4 brothers.

    • @patrickverona3098
      @patrickverona3098 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Sorry for your loss .

    • @charlaville7658
      @charlaville7658 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      It's a beautiful, serene place. I'm sure there are many, many angels on those grounds

  • @hollymartins6913
    @hollymartins6913 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I find it acutely disturbing that they read about, and were, of course, horrified by the newspaper stories of the previous evening's horrors, on their way home to encounter the very same killers. The whole thing is just wrong on so many levels.

  • @tracyquinter8874
    @tracyquinter8874 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Scott you and Troy never fail to give fresh and new insight. Thanks so much for all you all do.

  • @lindafoster2141
    @lindafoster2141 4 ปีที่แล้ว +71

    Scott, I remember when I first started hearing about you, Jordan always speaks so kindly of you. So when you closed the store, I started watching you on you tube. I am so fascinated about everything that you talk about. My Mom was a big movie star fan, musicals and anything Hollywood. I am amazed of the knowledge that you have. I cannot wait to see your next vlog!! I have a bad back, that puts me on the sofa alot. You make this old woman of 67 many a day. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking me places, I will sadly never get to see. Happy 4th of July!

    • @SaucyWench7
      @SaucyWench7 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Hey Linda, being an armchair tourist can be fun too! :)

    • @DearlyDepartedTours
      @DearlyDepartedTours  4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      Thank you, Linda, very much.

    • @melvynn11
      @melvynn11 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Linda FOSTER hi Linda. I live in chronic pain for 18 years now, including issues stemming from degenerative disk disease and I too am housebound and either on the couch or bedridden most days. I know how it feels. Blessings 😀🌷🌷🌷

    • @ltcolumbo9708
      @ltcolumbo9708 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      His tour is closed??

    • @PK-bh1ww
      @PK-bh1ww 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@SaucyWench7 I hear ya. Isn't the internet great! I go all over the world on Google Earth. :-)

  • @pdxer8895
    @pdxer8895 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    So Sad. Victims that would have normally have been forgotten. Thanks for giving them a life.

  • @ronaldroberts1992
    @ronaldroberts1992 3 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Thank you for the video....such a very sad and sickening time in history and my prayers go out to those who were affected. Take care.

  • @charlaville7658
    @charlaville7658 4 ปีที่แล้ว +23

    You have a lovely soothing voice. Your retelling of such tragic events had me captivated with all the detailed information. It must've taken you such a lot of work to put this video together. Thank you so much for sharing. I can't believe the death penalty was abolished when manson & his mob were all caught - that makes me so unbelievably angry. Because of those devils, so many beautiful people had their lives tragically cut short. By telling the LaBianca's story you've allowed others to see what lovely, normal people they were. Just going about their everyday lives - it could've been anyone who was targeted. It really makes my heart weep for those poor people.

  • @niallmcdonagh1093
    @niallmcdonagh1093 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    This is Pulitzer quality...memorabilia, phone book records, photos, certificates....so much work effortlessly pasted over the actual present day sights...a TH-cam classic!!

  • @chrissyknowsitall5170
    @chrissyknowsitall5170 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I just found this channel yesterday and I absolutely love every video. You put so much time and caring into all of your videos and talking about all the people. You really care and it shows. Thank you Sir. RIP to all of the Souls that lost their lives on those 2 horrible nights back in August 1969.🕊🕊🕊

  • @donnaturner9762
    @donnaturner9762 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Even 51 years later this series of vicious crimes still fascinates....at first I thought I was twisted...reading every book and watching everything I could about the Manson family victims (including the Dearly Departed Scott Michael's tours and DVD). Turns out I'm one of many with this same interest. Thanks, Scott for feeding my somewhat unusual obcessiobsession. Videos are very informative...even after reading so much...thank you! See you when touring starts up again...be safe!

  • @photographingtoronto2350
    @photographingtoronto2350 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    What a lot of work you've done on this video! So often murder victims are just names, you have really brought these two real people to life. Thanks for you incredible research and narration.

  • @rhiamonday456
    @rhiamonday456 2 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    I always felt sad for the kids having found their parents brutally murdered! No one should have to go through that!

  • @frankied6440
    @frankied6440 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Another excellent video by Scott Michaels. Thank you for keeping the memory of the LaBiancas alive for all to see.

  • @janmarchand7294
    @janmarchand7294 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    You da man! Always here for your videos. I first read the Helter Skelter when I was 14 that was in 1974 and for the first time I realized just how cruel random people could be. I believe it shaped my life into a cautious one as I really don't trust everyone I meet. It's like I can pick up vibes on a person and my senses scream get out immediately. I do believe this has helped me out of a few bad situations growing up. Yep, good old 1969, the year America lost it's innocence.

  • @puddysue
    @puddysue 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Thank you for the great information on Rosemary and Leno. Never heard anything much about them, other than the horrible way they died. How awful that these people and their family had to go through such horror.

  • @ImJustKaren_
    @ImJustKaren_ 4 ปีที่แล้ว +162

    Not gonna lie.. when you first said "Ronnie Howard" my first thought was "The filmmaker- Richie Cunningham-OPIE??"

    • @MICHELLE-gu2qc
      @MICHELLE-gu2qc 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      Me too

    • @Swampzoid
      @Swampzoid 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      I knew her name prior from reading Helter Skelter but still I think of Ron Howard too.

    • @SaucyWench7
      @SaucyWench7 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Yup, lol. I forgot her name until Scott mentioned it in a previous show but I still always think of Opie
      too, lol.

    • @amybeth5776
      @amybeth5776 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Same

    • @hcombs0104
      @hcombs0104 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Same here. For a minute there I thought they captured the teenaged Ron Howard and confessed.

  • @freebird4863
    @freebird4863 4 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Thank you, Scott, for your incredible vlogs! I love the history... the in-depth information, and the fabulous way you speak and share artifacts and pictures of these historic people and places. Wonderfully done! ❤️

  • @13SIXTEEN
    @13SIXTEEN 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    You do a very in depth and detailed vlog , good job and nice to see someone dig deep

  • @TheScarlett618
    @TheScarlett618 4 ปีที่แล้ว +28

    We have a Brown Derby drive-in restaurant in Shawnee, Oklahoma. It's been there since 1956 (same family has owned it all along)

  • @jodispicer683
    @jodispicer683 4 ปีที่แล้ว +107

    It’s incredible that the Labianca house hasn’t changed in all this time since 1969. Great video!

    • @Madmen604
      @Madmen604 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      And before that it was Leno's mother's house.

    • @jamestravis1037
      @jamestravis1037 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      I believe that Attorney Lisa Bloom (Daughter of Gloria Allred) purchased the abandoned house in 2019. Renovated and updated the home....Creepy.....I guess that it sat vacant for 50 years....No one wanted to live there....

    • @dannycarrington1601
      @dannycarrington1601 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      The driveway on the left is original (there's a garage at the top of the hill) but everything to the right was added by a later owner, when the LaBianca's lived there it was a sloping lawn. A swimming pool and terrace were added to the side of the house and the front bedroom's picture window was replaced with sliding glass doors and a small patio was added. Listing photos from last year show a bathroom with salmon pink tile which appears to be original. It's a modest house without much yard space but, thanks to its hilltop setting, the views are spectacular.

    • @marieantoinette6058
      @marieantoinette6058 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Its not right. .

    • @westcoastdude4777
      @westcoastdude4777 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      @@jamestravis1037 : Not correct. The house has had several owners since the killings. It has never been vacant.

  • @aprilgosa5779
    @aprilgosa5779 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I can't believe they let Leslie Van Houten out

  • @chrisharris7931
    @chrisharris7931 4 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    I just became a patreon as a thank you for creating one of the best rabbit holes on the internet. I've been a fan of findadeath for at least 20 years. You're a great story teller and there's a lot of dead celebrities that still haven't been posted on your old site. Just saying...

  • @janhoyle1462
    @janhoyle1462 4 ปีที่แล้ว +76

    Such a terrible thing to leave for family. I’m glad Charlie died in prison! Such an evil, evil man!

    • @joego7924
      @joego7924 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

      He shouldn't been executed years before, woulda saved us tax payers millions!

    • @septiawoman2911
      @septiawoman2911 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Unfortunately, Manson's death sentence was commuted to life in prison by CA voters.

    • @cindienolin564
      @cindienolin564 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@joego7924 wouldn't have mattered to Manson

    • @ernstvanstangl1048
      @ernstvanstangl1048 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      He didn't kill anyone. Not denigrating the poor innocent victims either.

    • @cindienolin564
      @cindienolin564 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      @@ernstvanstangl1048 you're correct. But he influenced them,told them what to do.

  • @Ajae78
    @Ajae78 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    I’m a longtime fan and avid reader of Find a Death, so I’m elated to find these videos! I love Scott’s take on all these famous crimes and am loving all this great footage. It’s a shame Los Angeles has no sense of history and tears everything down. Or replaces it with a Chipotle.

  • @portiamatthews9654
    @portiamatthews9654 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Scott always make the stories so incredible, in my opinion. During the first couple of days during the quarantine I just binged watched his channel.
    Thanks Scott 👍😊 for creating a fantastic channel. I appreciate all of the time and dedication that you have put into your channel.

  • @blueeyedwolf2205
    @blueeyedwolf2205 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    A friend of mine is related to Leno. He remembers the day his family got the phone call. Also, that restaurant by the Chase bank there on Los Feliz used to be called Michaels. I used to eat there in the 80's.

  • @gregman1715
    @gregman1715 4 ปีที่แล้ว +21

    MAN SAD THEY HAD HOPES AND DREAMS ONLY TO BE TAKEN AWAY FOR NO DAM REASON GOD BLESS THEM🙏🙏

  • @tillitrueheart971
    @tillitrueheart971 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Another great vlog! Thank you so much for your respectful coverage of a horrific tragedy.

  • @cookingartguy2170
    @cookingartguy2170 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Love this one especially Scott! This is the kind of stuff that we live for. So glad I got to see the museum before it closed.

  • @chrishutchinson2297
    @chrishutchinson2297 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I just finished watching this video and the Steven parent visit video. I really didn't know much about these people just that they were murdered by the Manson family. I found it extremely interesting. You did such a wonderful job of bringing the whole story to life. I remember those days well. And goodness I was a few years younger than the Manson girls but one of them grew up in Westchester which is where I grew up. Thank you

  • @temeculajoe
    @temeculajoe 4 ปีที่แล้ว +44

    Have you ever done a vlog on the "night stalker "? That case really had the whole area of Los Angeles scared

    • @bracita15
      @bracita15 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      temeculajoe I was 22 years old and just happened to be in East LA on August 30, 1985 trying on a bridesmaid’s dress in a little dress shop. Suddenly, all hell broke loose outside. Police cars were flying down the street with their sirens on. One of the LAPD choppers was over the area and a lot of people were running. My sister and my Godfather went outside to see what was going on and someone told them that Richard Ramirez aka the Night Stalker was in the neighborhood where he got his ass kicked and was being held down while the cops arrived. Go East Los!!! 😂 As soon as I got out of the dress we went to the area close to the Hollenbeck Police Station where he was being held. Millions of people slept better that night.

    • @christystewart4567
      @christystewart4567 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      There was an “Original Night Stalker” who started before Ramírez but his crimes weren’t widely known. He only became original after Rameriez got the name though he was referred to that before but not widely. He’s now known as the Golden State Killer.

  • @ritarizzo9317
    @ritarizzo9317 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I just got the book by Alice LaBianca “No more Tomorrow’s “ in the mail today (I ordered it off of Ebay a few wks ago after watching this video!) can’t wait to read it👍🏼

    • @QueenlySweetpea
      @QueenlySweetpea 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      So how was the book ? It's been a while now that you've read it, but you probably remember quite a bit of it's contents ..

    • @ritarizzo9317
      @ritarizzo9317 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@QueenlySweetpea I’m STILL reading it !! I started it and then get sidetracked (I have 4 kids,2 dogs ,&2 kittens) they all distract me!! Lol But thank you for this reply bc you reminded me to go pick it up!! The first 2 chapters were good! It’s basically about Alice & Leno’s beginnings!!

  • @joydunn2109
    @joydunn2109 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you so much Scott for all you do. I saw the Steve Parent video that you posted, I Learned a lot from it. Thank you Again.

  • @zukosmom3780
    @zukosmom3780 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Makes me sad that buildings are torn down. It’s so depressing. That’s so sad that they weren’t buried together

  • @64098
    @64098 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    This is a fascinating channel, I always find out something that was never reported before or included in standard accounts of these cases. It was nice hearing about their pre murder lives.

  • @pamelaJoyce384
    @pamelaJoyce384 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Very interesting. I don't think I've ever seen Mr. LaBianca's grave before. Such a shame they were not laid to rest together

  • @cheyanndoyle1688
    @cheyanndoyle1688 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you Scott for this great channel

  • @jeromejackson6111
    @jeromejackson6111 4 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Leno & Rosemary Labianca, may both rest in God's eternal love & peace.

    • @curtisrobinson7962
      @curtisrobinson7962 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good luck living in your fantasy. Bless your heart.

    • @breakfastsurreal5650
      @breakfastsurreal5650 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@curtisrobinson7962I can't stand people like you. Atheists are bullies of free thought.

  • @OnTheHighWatch
    @OnTheHighWatch 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love it, so happy you found us here on TH-cam. Looking forward to all your work.

  • @loriepostlewaite162
    @loriepostlewaite162 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Sad they weren’t kept together after they died...thanks for sharing

  • @renaldcosma7192
    @renaldcosma7192 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I try to watch all of Scott Michaels videos , Its like taking Hollywood History classes from the best, I grew up in West Hollywood and Scott really knows his shit Hes obviously an expert in this semi-rare field

  • @colleenallen3382
    @colleenallen3382 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I remember this very vividly. I was in the Hollywood Hills the night Sharon Tate and friends lost their lives. It was frightening! I also remember the LaBianca’s. I didn’t know of the funeral arrangements, I found that information of interest. Requiescat in Pace. Mr. And Mrs. La Bianca, Rest In Peace.✝️

  • @SandySaunders9142
    @SandySaunders9142 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Scott - your attention to detail is extraordinary. Thank you for your hard work during this uncertain time. It helps me cope knowing you are there for us! Stay safe man! Lots of love!

  • @-Garviel_Loken-
    @-Garviel_Loken- 4 ปีที่แล้ว +39

    Corporations have ruined the charm of the city. No more interesting restaurants or bars, Starbucks and banks.

    • @mikepatrick5909
      @mikepatrick5909 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      That's happened everywhere...we live in a global economy...

    • @zampieritto
      @zampieritto 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No more charm

  • @sharonletchford9375
    @sharonletchford9375 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I appreciated watching & learning about Mr & Mrs labianca how very tragic all of these murders were & the pain left behind for the friends & family of these beautiful people.

  • @Gloria-ro4vn
    @Gloria-ro4vn 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    The Manson killers didn't know who or how many people were in those homes. I've always felt that if there were children in either place, those monsters, wouldn't have hesitated to kill them.

  • @davidohmer5296
    @davidohmer5296 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Your video's are very well done Mr. Michaels. The old pictures and mementos, the drive to the scene and how it looks,
    everything is well done and well thought out. I'm a subscriber big time!

  • @tjp2109
    @tjp2109 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    This was wonderful to watch. I loved the vintage matchbook covers (I'm a collector also). I also loved this history of vintage L.A and past/present locations. Thank you.

  • @breabg828
    @breabg828 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well done! Thank you for this: Much appreciated. Too often they're not remembered in the overall picture of the horror of the 'Tate murders that awful summer. 💓

  • @spokanetomcat1
    @spokanetomcat1 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I lived less than 2 miles from the murder site. When my sister found out she locked up our house and we were stuck in the house for days. My mother drove by their home everyday she went to work.

  • @Thomas116-m2n
    @Thomas116-m2n 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I could listen to your accounts of these cases for hours. I love the details that you include. Great video!

  • @jn8ive60
    @jn8ive60 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    "Does that make sense to you?" Yeah, if you theorize that Frank Struthers Jr. didn't know if his sister were working or not, and had to take a 50-50 chance, or if for some reason he thought she was working but she wasn't. And further theorize that he had used his only dime to make the call, and so wouldn't have been able to call her apartment once he was told she wasn't at the restaurant. I remember those days, being dropped off at the movies and parents making sure we had a dime to call once the movie was over. Pay phones. The good ole days.

  • @FancyCNote
    @FancyCNote 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I truly enjoy your content. Focusing on the victims life is what I love the most

  • @georgiecelli6462
    @georgiecelli6462 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Sad story, odd they weren’t buried together. My son was born in 1969.

  • @sonnycorleone4964
    @sonnycorleone4964 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for all your hard work and research in bringing these dear departed people back to life when you talk about them.

  • @dukeofhaas
    @dukeofhaas 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    We are so digging your vintage matchbooks. Glad to see you are a proud phillumenist!

  • @itmanager1449
    @itmanager1449 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Your body of work, research, detail, corroborations, down to driving the roads and citing specific times people would have been where, is just incredible! You deserve a huge amount of accolades and praise for organizing these stories ( tragic they may be) in a way that brings life to the people who were the subjects, and most importantly, shares this information in a respectful, matter-of-fact way. Thank you so much for sharing!

    • @DearlyDepartedTours
      @DearlyDepartedTours  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thank you. That is high praise and I am so grateful.

  • @glamdolly30
    @glamdolly30 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Hey Scott - I'm very excited to discover your TH-cam channel today! I met you back in 2004 on one of your LA celebrity tours (I left you a big tip, Lol!) I'm British and was on honeymoon. We chatted after your excellent tour, I was a British TV producer at that time. Good to know you're still doing what you do so well.
    This video was superbly well researched, bravo. Can't wait to check out all your other videos, I know they'll be of a similarly high standard.
    Oh, and I divorced the loser after 2 years, but it was a great honeymoon! Stay safe and well my friend. XXX

  • @joewilliams3919
    @joewilliams3919 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Tremendously entertaining and informative for anyone with an interest in these cases
    Thanks very much!

  • @cherihill2003
    @cherihill2003 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great video, Scott! I've been a fan of your work since The Six Degrees of Helter Skelter ", the best documentary on Manson ever made.

  • @katrish786
    @katrish786 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thanks for making this video and doing the research. I noticed on Veronica Lopez death certificate that she also died by homicide. Sad.

  • @renayconner7171
    @renayconner7171 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Love all your videos scott,god bless you and your family

  • @MaryAnn-222
    @MaryAnn-222 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I've been interested in true crime for as long as I can remember. I'm really enjoying your videos because it's so fascinating to see these places that I've only read about. The book Helter Skelter is one of the first true crime books I ever read so to see the locations, especially the way you present them, is really awesome. It's obvious you do your research. The details you've included here is amazing.....like the newspaper they bought on their way home and where they had to park! I can't imagine their terror or the heartbreak of their children. Thank you Mr. Michaels and please, keep it up!

  • @vette58lover
    @vette58lover 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Scott, thank you for making this. I love how you had old pictures & videos of what the spaces used to look like, as well as what they look like now. Thank you for everything that you do! And happy 4th of july!

  • @lisellesloan3191
    @lisellesloan3191 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    As I recall, Rosemary LaBianca was a Mexican orphan who was adopted. She was an American success story and, alas, an American tragedy, as well.