Lifeboat Conversion Ep43: Removing polyurethane buoyancy foam to be replaced by steel ballast [4K]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2022
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EPISODE 43
During long past works on Alan, the area underneath the storage racking's false floor was sealed and filled with closed cell expanding buoyancy foam. This wasn't ideal. Foam isn't famously heavy. So, I've done my best at replacing some of it with solid steel.
Products mentioned:
LD40 polyurethane foam
40mm square solid steel bar
50mm x 6mm solid steel bar
Soudal Zinc Spray (matt)
10mm foil coated closed cell foam roll
Model: NME A/S (Husnes, Norway) 7.5m TELB
Engine: Bukh DV48 turbo diesel
Feel free to ask any questions in the comments!
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As a life boat service company, seeing and doing everyday service for them, I never tought to see Life boats from this pretty perspective. You are doing grate job and highly skilled. Enjoying videos very much. 🙏🏼
Well that is kind. Cheque's in the post.
A little undignified for Alan but, get the boatyard to lift Alan up by the stern and then you can pour expanding foam into the gap to your heart’s content. It will also let you find out which items you’ve not yet secured sufficiently.
Surely it would be £100 well spent, and not at all overkill. I like it.
Dooooo iiiiiiithhhh!!!
I wouldn't bother with any thing to permanent for now when it comes to ballast. Take the foam you cut out of there and pack it in as best you can. Possibility you may have to shift it later. Gd luck.
I would suggest filling the void with sand. Maybe with pressurised air if necessary. After closing the sand should stabilize the ballast firmliy and still be removable...
This is by far one of the best projects on life boats I have seen so far and you are doing a amazing job. My farther also love's your project but he raised a point of concern. He worked in ship design and construction (admittedly on much larger ships) and one of the thing's he mentioned was the ballast placement. He said that it is all well and good adding weight to bring better stability but if the weights are to far forward/back or side to side from centre keel that it would throw the boats centre of gravity off and the role and pitch in even minor waves would become bit issue. If this is a issue on smaller boat's I am not 100% sure but he felt it was worth mentioning. Also in answer to your question he mentioned an old trick he learned in the 60's. Thinned out tile grout. but you mix the water with a good strength PVA glue. 1-1.
Since you're trying to add ballast, perhaps you could use very liquidy cement?
agree. Concrete comes to mind first... heavy and cheap, can't go wrong
I was just commenting to my partner about how Alan looks and is completely unsinkable etc and I said it is like an above water submarine, in fact as it is above water it is just a marine. 😉
there is a product of liquid vinyl that you can dip tool handles in for a comfort/non-slip grip. Perhaps this can be poured in via flexible tubing to fill the viods, (vooids?), (voiids), gaps.
Voids
I seem to remember you saying a long time ago that you would want to utilize Alan on an arctic expedition, now it seems to me that he is just becoming a hobby of yours. You are in love with Alan but won't admit it.
You've pre-empted the second half of the next video!
In the US, we have some spray foams intended for exterior use that are supposedly rot-resistant and fairly tough. I used some in my greenhouse two years ago.
th-cam.com/video/E4UGLfUKRAk/w-d-xo.html - it seems to be completely intact, in spite of fairy high humidity.
It's the one we can get over there too. I've emailed DAP to check the closed cell count.
Another great episode. I think for now something temporary to fix the ballast in case it needs to be moved. Some 2 parts silicone could be a long term solution but they all tend to do badly in cold weather.
I was going to say "Great stuff" - which is the squirty foam we use here in Canada. But looks like you already ruled that out.
I can only imagine an expanding foam of some sort would do the trick there - since silicone and the like won't really fill the voids and secure the jangling pieces.
Maybe you could seal that open end of the void and drill a hole in the floor on top of it and funnel the expanding foam in
Yes that was the original method, but here I'd need to do it in a dozen locations - quite the mess.
Also when you say "boat plug" in your particular accent it just sounds funny in english🤣
I wonder if a Manual Sausage Maker Stainless Steel Stuffer Homemade Syringe Meat Filler that has a 1.5cm, 2cm & 2.3cm nozzle on the end could be useful if you put closed cell expanding foam into it with a length of clear pvc tubing fitted over the nozzle so that you can get into hidden crevices? As soon as you pour it into the stuffer which holds about 500cc volume & screw the plunger end on the expanding foam would begin to expand out the end of the pvc tubing which will give you plenty of time to push out the rest of the contents.
Creaming to expansion time is only 10-15 secs with the foam I have. You'd have to work at light speed.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals 10 - 15 seconds from pouring it into the stuffing cylinder to screwing the end on is possible if you stand the cylinder vertical because as you pour it will begin to drain into the tubing giving you space get the end on in time.
since u have them in place, I'd hot-glue a perpendicular flat bar to their ends, let dry, pull out....then wire-wrap or weld into one solid piece of ballast. within the gaps, u could fill with hot lead, chunks of steel, etc. that way, if the ballasts are improportinate, u could retrieve the entire mass and adjust accordingly. Essentially, just make it one mass that is swappable and adjustable depending on needs.
Concrete is a popular choice for this. It is not the best choice however. Sometimes with PVA concrete glue mixed in.
I myself would acquire a ton of plastic grocery shopping bags and a long 3/8" wooden dowl rod. Then lay down and push/cram crumpled up plastic bag bunches into every open space until it was jammed full upholding tight all the iron in place. Then seal off the opening, have a cold drink and most importantly "forget about it".
I can't knock the originality. Or slightly nihilistic end game.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals I can accept that as a fair response, and best of luck to and for you with the planned adventures. I will be here watching intently!
I would left the original air bottles in place!!! And now I would use a water BLADER ballast ! many cargo boats do YOU CAN VZRY THE BALLAST ANY TIME YOU NEED !
HEERS TONY
I could imagine a situation in which something like ball bearings are used as opposed to steel bars... Ball bearings mixed in a bucket with your magical two part foam and then pressed through a tube into your new cavity. Not sure if they'd need to be rust treated due to the foam protecting them, but certainly there's a better ballast solution than trying to refoam the area somehow...
Obviously you wouldn't want to use brand new or otherwise useful ball bearings, ideally some found as refuse or scrap perhaps... Just spit balling here.
I came here to finally say "f off alex!"..... Then that amazing time lapse sunrise changed my mind.. So get on with it!
What about a plain cement grout? Permanent, and heavy.
i would try the part part form but a long tube to guide it into the places you wont say like a fiberglass tent pole
Im only here for the intro graphics and shameless book plugs.🤣
I did mishear book plug but thats a diffrnet web site entirely. 😉
I would just get as much sealent squished in with the steel as possible. great video 2x👍
Could you find a liquid plastic/rubber that you could fill it with and would harden
Would epoxy plus foaming agent work? At least you'd be able to get it to flow pretty much anywhere with a piece of tube.
I was thinking some sort of concrete. Pagel is very fluid like and almost self leveling.
Side access only is the issue
What about mixing small lead shot with resin and pumping it in with a large syringe and vinyl tube?
When I say large syringe I mean the automotive type, mine is half a liter and uses 10mm hose.
I used that method to make my set of curling stones. Heavy enough to use on lake ice after a bit of levelling.
In regards to the two part foam insertion there are DIY two part kits sold in the big box stores in the U.S., so I imagine they exist in the U.K.
If not I was thinking about two very large syringes, some vinyl tubing, and the blending nozzles that are available for Sikaflex two part products. I was imagining that the syringes could be cobbled together with maybe a wooden frame so that they would fit onto a cheep caulk gun, and would dispense evenly. Attach the blending nozzle to a rod for reaching those pesky difficult to reach voids.
You're right that the kits are available - I'm trying to avoid investing in a whole set up for one niche job.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals yes, they’re not cheap at all, that’s why I brought up the syringe rig. I’ve never made such a contraption, but I have used two part adhesives that came made to drop into a calk gun, then we’re mixed with a special screw on nozzle.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals I just had another thought. From time to time I receive electronics that are packed in a closed cell semi rigid foam material. I know it won’t absorb water because I have inadvertently left it outside during rain. Anyway, I was thinking that you could take a 1 inch or three-quarter inch piece of PVC pipe, Slice the foam into strips that would fit snugly inside of a pipe, push the pipe in place where you want the foam to be, Then push the foam out of the pipe with a dowel, while pulling the pipe back out of the void area.
Then just repeat as many times as it takes.
Maybe use a silicone caulking and just use pressure to hopefully fill in the gaps. Also you should use stainless steel zip ties. I’ve found in the cold the cheaper zip ties especially get very brittle and break easily.
I think caulking would be a bit of a nightmare to get into blind gaps. And you'd need to do in it lots of batches, to allow the deeper areas to air cure.
Stainless zip ties could accelerate corrosion, and really the reason these broke was because I accidentally used my box of cheap PP ones, not nylon.
A new definition for "fire in the hole!"
Re gal, those bars should be separated from each other. What happens is you guessed it a galvanic reaction causing white rust. The white rust is zinc oxide.
It's completely fine when it's dry but condensation and moisture precipitate the reaction. Rapid rusting of the base metal results as the gal coating oxidizes.
How do I know all this you may ask? Well I work in the steel industry and customers scream (and I do mean scream) when their galvanized products get wet. If they're touching each other they aren't allowed to get wet. Packs of wet gal RHS, no matter how well you've tarped a truck are cause for rancour with customers that never ever is forgotten and drivers being reprimanded by employers. This is how serious wet galvanized steel is treated in the industry. I wouldn't use it.
Find something that rusts, and allow it to surface rust. Leave it outside. After it rusts apply a rust treatment to it and that will stabilize it then prime it with something like Rustoleum.
Gal is fine when it is electrically bonded through welding or bolting but relatively loose like this in a high humidity environment - forget it. Think of each piece as a battery looking to discharge at any opportunity.
I’m curious why the UK doesn’t have closed cell foam in a can. It’s perfect for small repairs on boats and sealing gaps around plumbing in homes.
I was thinking exactly the same. The only one available seems to be Touch n Foam Landscape. And it's a tiny can, with the aquaria-safe feature many people don't need.
fire extinguisher in the loo for flammable farts lol, simple solution, don't smoke on the thunder box.
A couple of thoughts about your ballast, I would be thinking about making sure it can't rattle, could get annoying pretty quick & also making sure it's well secured, in the unlikely event of a roll over or rough seas you wouldn't want it coming loose... Bye!
How about the rubbery silicone stuff dentists use for impressions can be squirted or injected it goes off quickly and is waterproof.
Also being rubbery it would help with your vibration concerns.
I suggest concrete it’s extra ballast and cheap also what’re resistant once it’s dry
How about a timber flooring glue? Expandable, moisture resistant, comes in a sausage and makes a hell of a mess
Isn't that just polyurethane?
A simple curtain which can be folded in a net bag above which can rolled down instantly would be helpful in the toilet.
Why?
I would imagine you would want a lot of redundancy on an Arctic excursion, i’m not experience with anything you’re doing but I’m experienced with cold weather. You should have some kind of back up system to make sure the water in that tank does not freeze, there’s a special type of wire that will increase its resistance in relation to a decrease in temperature. I don’t have the information on hand, but it should keep that water from freezing in event of some major failure while not draining any electricity unless the temperature in the cabin is close to or below freezing. Maybe I’m worried about nothing, maybe it’s not even the best solution. it seems pretty unlikely you should lose cabin heating and yet still have power for the heatline, but it’s something to think about.
In that situation we'd melt snow on demand, or use a manual water mater and sea water.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals definitely the more efficient way to go about things, one other thing in relation to your foam/filler problem. If weight and ballast is what you are after have you considered using cement? Plenty of weight to be had along with filling the voids. Or would concrete pose some other problem in a nautical setting?
@@myoldaccount2560 it's still the side access only problem. Pouring from one top entry isn't possible.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals are you afraid it won’t flow in properly from the side? Keep in mind that using cement would all but eliminate the need to use steel ballast down there. I know you put a lot of work into it, but if you were to pull out the steel that should provide enough room for cement to fill in. If there’s also an issue in elevation you could try sticking a hose at the highest point connected to a vacuum to literally suck the void out, closed cell foam should be reasonably airtight for this method. If you want to leave the steel in, someone else in the comments mentioned a half litre automotive syringe, providing it can handle a thicker solution like concrete you might be able to forcefully inject cement around the steel. I’m all out of ideas, cheers.
What about using liquid cement to pack around the metal bars?
You'll enjoy subsequent (and very recent) episodes!
I know it is nearly as slight as a canoe, Alan does have a keel, or at least a chime of sorts. I don't know how hot you can safely get fiberglass, but Babbitt is pretty easy to find, inexpensive, and mostly lead so pretty much maintenance free and quite heavy. More relevantly, it has a very low molten temperature, less than 500 degrees I believe. Could having a thin stripe of significantly heavier ballast in the very bottom reduce your need for the higher maintenance mild steel higher up?
Babbitt is pretty expensive, and the melting temps would damage the foam, ply and even the FB I think.
But yes, something right down low on the keel is planned.
Would the foam builders and window fitters use work I’m a mechanic and how we spray anti corrosion down chassis beams or in sealed frames is with a stiff bit of plastic pipe we use some from a hgv air brakes system just block up one end and mark a few holes all the way around the pipe at the blocked end then wedge on the spay can at the other end with some ingenuity it works a treat i can’t why this wouldn’t work with expandable foam to get to the very back
The foam you're talking about is either open cell (the normal spray can stuff) or needs a machine to operate a closed cell sprayer. Your method to distribute anti-corrosion liquid probably wouldn't work with the 2-part LD40, as you have a matter of a few seconds before it starts to expand and block holes or tubes.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals it’s worth a squirt lol
I have recently worked with window fitting company and they use closed cell foam in simple cans. If you can't get those on the market, try visiting some window company around, they should have something suitable for your situation.
The issue is that most cheap cans are actually open cell. I'm trying to source a closed cell version that doesn't need a machine.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals yes, I am aware of this issue
However windows are facing out to the weather and because of this are mounted not by open cell foam but by closed cell foam (at least in our house they are).
When we were building our house we obtained few cans of the closed cell foam from the window company as we were not able to get it in normal hobbymarket. You can try the same trick ;)
Pretty extensive searching has drawn a blank for canned spray closed cell foam in the UK, even from trade suppliers, aside from a couple of pond products.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals well, it was just a tip that worked for me
Wish you luck whatever solution you choose.
If your filling an area thats still "defined" by foam, how about pouring runny concrete with fiber reinforcing? fills the gaps and is also heavy and wont allow water build up once cured?
I was thinking the same but concrete can absorb moisture and crack in cold temperatures. It also very rigid and could crack with shocks from waves and such. Drying indoor with the thickness needed wouldn't be good either.
It's the same angle issue as pouring in LD40 foam. I have only side access.
This problem is definitely above my paygrade. In construction there is a substance similar to concrete that is pumped through a hose and sprayed. I don't know if it would be applicable in this situation like the gentleman above mentioned about absorbing water or cracking.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotcrete
I wonder if using the spray foam would cause warping of the floor as it expands.
@@GrizzLeeTroll13 The floor has hundreds of klios weighing it down, so I doubt small quantities of foam will warp it.
Prawn cocktail or Pickled onion crisps?
Tough call. I'm going to have to go with Pickled onion.
I thought all of the 1 part polyurethane foams were closed cell? A couple of cans great stuff pond and stone or the black outdoor would work? Maybe?
Almost all spray can expanding PU foams are open cell, sadly. I've found a handful that are closed cell (only 75-90% closed cell, but good enough) and they are 4-5x the price. The Great Stuff I've googled, but it's unavailable in the UK. I've emailed Touch n Foam to see if their pond foam is closed cell too.
Try Waterproof Gorilla glue, it foams up when it drys so will expand nicely into the spaces.
Gorilla glue is just a rigid polyurethane glue, so a very expensive alternative to normal PU foam.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals Paul Ryan could be referring to 'GORILLA FILLER WEATHERPROOF EXPANDING FOAM FILLER' which is waterproof expanding foam filler.
loo head pillow: prime spot for Patreon Sticker (taking bids now)
Only a matter of time
You may have already done the speed why can’t you fill it up with Rezin this way it will fill all the gaps and it also ways a bit more than fine for extra ballast
don't know shit about closed cell foam and ballast, but concerning the other shit, a metal hoop with a tiny curtain and a fumes extractor may come handy.😑
First, I am not an expert and maybe you have already thought about something like this. What about Sika-postfix, it could be a solution. It should be closed foam and the bag sizes are easy to use.
I think that's just like LD40, that I have a few bottles of, but perhaps a different formulation. Pouring into a hole is easy - getting it quickly into a horizontally distant crevice is harder.
I would be careful removing buoyancy foam as that is there to prevent it from being sinkable! Especially if you get into icy waters and get a hull breach! Also there is the balance issue! If you don't put the weight in the right places now you are listing.
Don't want to be reading about the unfortunate Alex Hibbert exploration sinking.
This was additional foam we added. The boat is rated to nearly ten tons over and above empty weight. The fixed ballast is being located centrally/laterally symmetrical. Hopefully you won't be reading about any unfortunate sinking!
Is one's name the only option? Or could a patron specify some other word? Any censorship?
Don't encourage them! Or, do...
What about that foam they put in beanbag chairs. I hope you know what a beanbag chair is or this is not gonna make any sense at all
Why not lead which won't corrode - too expensive?
Indeed. And rather hot considering the surroundings.
wonder when or if somebody will choose funny names to be shouted out. Eg: sugma, dix... etc
:)
Saw this thought of Alan: th-cam.com/video/f2UyKOk9-KE/w-d-xo.html. Around the 18 minute mark
Exact same technique we used, but with larger holes!
Better call sus
I'm somewhat baffled by WHY you chose to make the floor out of plywood and to mount it permanently to above the bilge in the first place. I can say with 100% certainty that the area underneath will eventually fill with water and be a complete mess. My family has owned a few boats and water will always find the low point.
If it were up to me, I'd rip out all of that plywood flooring and start again. I'd section the floor up with removable plastic panels with hard plastic supports to set the elevation. I'd use some perforated material that will let water both in and out. Some type of polyethylene in the color of your choice. In this manner, the entire bilge area remains accessible for maintenance and drainage and will less likely grow mold.
You'd also have full access to stack in the ballast materials.
The folks with the SV Seeker project have done this type of thing, but using teak planking. When they need to get to a bilge area, they just lift up the appropriate section.
You will have water or a fuel spill or, God forbid, an overflow of the head. Liquid will seep into all the nooks and crannies. Embrace this eventuality and make it less painful by ripping out the plywood and planning for it now while the boat is on the shore and not while you're out at sea in an emergency.
My 25 shillings worth.
Pb.
Boat!
That Paul guy sounds like a real w⚓
But seriously, I am extremely proud to support your work and content. Looking forward to more!
I heard he was a bit of a hero! Funny how perceptions differ.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals haha indeed. The fact that your TH-cam content is currently operating at a loss saddens me greatly, and I will be doing what I can to help change that. Unfortunately I know nothing about content creation or gaming the algorithm, and can only help by sharing your content and sending you money.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals also the shout-out was classy, good for your sponsorship channel, and a nice surprise. But I'm just a... Well, you know 😂
Thanks Paul. Yes, the TH-cam gods cannot, and must not, be tricked or gamed!