carbon crap is nothing but an tax on your carbon sin, for lack of another word. its empty and meaningless. plant trees, yes but also consider not living in a place that cannot sustain life as easy as other places.
Kylo and Finn are among the most wasted characters in this awful trilogy. Imagine if they were in the hands of someone like Timothy Zahn or Matthew Stover with Lucas overseeing the whole thing.
Both of them would've been way better. Although I do like TFA's characterization of both, TLJ just shattered them both in a horrible way and Rise is a little better to me but both of them, especially Finn are missing very important character arcs.
Yeah. Imagine creating two characters with such amazing premices and possibilies for developement, and instead ditching them out entirely to a random nobody that has no connexion to anything whatsoever... The trilogy would be a thousand time better without Rey. How to fail at protagonist...
Disney Star Wars might’ve been slightly redeemed for me if they had actually killed Rey and left Ben Solo alive to pick up the pieces and deal with what he’s done. Imagine him going back to the rebel base carrying Rey’s body and having to explain what happened and it being an actual relative to go back to the homestead and put the lightsabers in the sand and speak with his uncle and mom. That would have been a halfway decent ending. The whole series should’ve been the saving of the last of the skywalker/solo.
I completely agree but after 7 years of going on about the force is female they would have been accused of doing her dirty and lost both sides of the fan base .
He didn't apologize with Rey after everything he done to her either. Why the directors and internet still saying that Kylo and Rey love each other? They are awful together..
@@monicaaboites5053 Ive always found Reylo just weird, random and fan servicy. it just doesnt make sense. in TFA, she feared him. in TLJ she hated him after he killed Han. and in TROS, she loves him? makes zero sense.
Why should he apologize to her!? They Are ENEMIES in a war in the beginning and Most Times he was on the defensive or tried to Talk to her to understand his POV. SHE IS ATTACKING him often, in Tros She Right out Stabs him (tho the whole film is badly written)...Yeah but Hes still the one needing to apologize or what?
„Adam Driver for Kylo is what Alan Rickman was for Snape!“ YES definetly. Hearing his interviews and how he views the character gives you the Impression HE was the Writer of the Story of his character. Compared to the actual writers themselves
I liked the initial idea of Kylo Ren. A young, Darth Vader wannabe with the power and skill to surpass Vader, but lacking the maturity and control. I figured he'd grow stronger and more able and becomes a true heir to Vader. Then Hollywood blew it.
That's also an interesting take! Tho I feel that would be a bit comedic if He then was the New Vader. I felt him NOT being a real villain but trying to live in the dark side was interesting and the point of his character. That soon hell realize He doesnt belong on the dark side.
@@jaieregilmore971 Not that he'd work that out right away. I just liked the idea of Kylo being a true rival to Rey, growing stronger as she does. Buuuuuut Abrams stumbled with TFA, Rian's failure with TLJ is an insult to failures and TRoS was going to fail, even if they gave it to a good director.
Another difference I think it's important to point out, is the relationship between father-daughter of Jinx and Silco, and father-son of Luke and Kylo. As you mentioned, the father-son relationship between Kylo and Luke is basically nonexistent, there's no context added, they could've treated each other like strangers for all we know from the movies. However in Arcane, Silco loved Jinx like his daughter even in her broken, shattered and unstable form. It was disfunctional, because well, Silco is a villain who wants revenge, and pushed Jinx to a life of unstability. But the show really emphasized how much Silco cared about Jinx. Even in his last moments where I was expecting the typical "I've never loved you, you were a weapon, bla, bla bla", Silco surprised me when he stated how much he loved her, how he would've never sacrificed her, and how perfect she was even in her broken form. He cared so much for Jinx that he brought her back to life. A man whose main philosophy is to care for himself first and only. I find amazing how much passion was put behind Arcane, that even an animated villain is more human than everyone in the new SW trilogy.
Got to love how the silco is more empathetic with his love for jinx where luke skywalker we the man who saw the good in darth Vader tried to kill his own nephew because he thought he might be evil
@@anarchy4303 I live for the irony. Luke Skywalker, the man who refused to kill his father (A SITH LORD!) and tried to find good in him after everything bad he had done, trying to kill his nephew (who at that moment wasn't even evil) just in case. VS Silco, a VILLAIN whose main philosophy is "stick to yourself and don't trust nor love anyone", bringing Jinx back to life, refusing to betray her, protecting her even when, due to her actions, his longstanding dream was falling apart, and everyone wanted her head, because he loved her like his daughter. The writers and directos of SW deserve a hundred Razzies, imo.
@@KM-oy2dw arcane's writing is just so fucking amazing, a lot of the silco jinx thing comes from that fact that he sees himself in her, as he was betrayed in a way by Vander. He wanted to make sure she wouldn't be alone like he was, and wanted to provide the care and love he needed. All the character motivations are just so well throught out and perfect
@@KM-oy2dw I would add to that, Silco, the Villain, got himself surprised of compassion for a litle girl crying in his arms when he was actually about to kill her. He, who lost so much at this instant, got himself a daughter cause he felt her shattering distress and empathized. How can't you love Arcane ? :D
Kylo despite his character flaws, was my favorite character of the entire sequel trilogy, even tho his character development was all over the place, it was really more concise then the rest of the sequel characters especially Rey. Could've been a great villian
I think most people who like Kylo Ren tend to like the idea of him more than the actual character himself. There is potential for a good character there, it was just executed poorly and saved mainly by the acting.
@@EnderHeart5911 we like the idea of him because his character arc has been done in Star Wars like 2 or 3 other times already. It’s the only thing remotely coherent in the whole trilogy because they’re just copying the story of darth Vader and revan and starkiller and whoever the hell else. Only somehow they manage to screw that up too which is just incredible honestly.
I completely agree. This whole trilogy should have capitalised on Luke and Ben's relationship a lot more. This trilogy just had so much potential that was just tossed aside. and thats just sad to see
For real dude. Honestly the first ENTIRE movie should have been about Luke’s Jedi academy and the fall of Ben solo. I also just think that the story would have been better served if Rey was Luke’s kid and he was training her in the academy and if Han and leia had had like one or two more children (like in the books) and the story was about family. You can even keep the finn B plot if you want, and I feel like this way, it actually allows for a lot more development for Finn (even though I completely despise the entire idea of the first order but whatever)
@@Zlittlepenguin Ep 7 actually had an original script, and it was going to go into Luke's Jedi academy and Ben Solo's backstory to his fall to the darkside, to Luke turning his back on everything and then Ben joining the Knights of Ren and becoming Kylo Ren. It was also going to set up Finn & Rey being force sensitive so they would become Jedi down the line. All of this was written by JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan.
@@windghost2 even THAT would have been way better. I do, however just think that Rey, Ben, and like 1 or 2 other kids should have been the main focus. Finn can be force sensitive, but doesn’t have to be, and (if you really need to have the first freakin order in the story 🙄) he should be more of a lens as to how the first order is bad and what they’re doing and/or humanising or relating to the storm troopers. Maybe he has some sort of relationship with a couple of them who have ALSO lost everything and are practically being enslaved and forced to do the bidding of the first order. I ALSO think - just like every other Star Wars trilogy - the story would have been SO much cooler, and would have justified the addition of the first order SO much better if they added politics to it. Genuinely. They didn’t show the new republic in ANY fashion other than to blow them up and that’s it. And we don’t even care about it because we don’t spend any time with these people. How or why are the first order a thing? What does the new republic think about it? How does their incompetence/naivety/general in-action spark the need for leia to take action and form the resistance?!? How does she form the resistance?! Etc… and if you don’t waste everyone’s time with “who are rey’s parents? Find out in the next movie! Lol it’s no one. see how that plays out in the next movie! Jk it’s Palpetine cause he’s back somehow and now he’s dead. The end!” and just say “hey it’s Luke’s freaking daughter, let’s get on with the story now” then you’d have PLENTY of time to actually tell a story about the sky walkers, the world of Star Wars, and a compelling and grounded story about the people in it. Not to mention all of this would allow for Luke to actually DO something that isn’t completely idiotic. You could even STILL make him a hermit in the second movie and have the entire “failing” arc that he goes through in the last Jedi. But this way, we could potentially see him BE a grandmaster, all-powerful jedi that we all assumed he’d be before the movies came out. Hell he could even fight whatever ACTUAL big baddie in the first or second movie (ideally the first most likely) and it would be great. Easy fan service that’s actually justified. It’s just so annoying because this was SO difficult to screw up. I’m not gunna sit here and say my “version” DEFINITELY should have happened. I’m just saying there were a wealth of VERY obvious plot threads to choose from and they went with the most contrived, convoluted, and underwhelming way of going about things. It’s quite literally like cheating on a test but purposefully answering the questions wrong for no damn reason. It’s so frustrating man 🤦🏼♂️
@@Zlittlepenguin I agree man. Also on Rey, I was thinking about the force vision she had in TFA. See in the original script of the film, instead of Rey finding The Skywalker Lightsaber and having a force vision by herself, Maz Kanata actually shows the lightsaber to Finn and Rey. When they touch the lightsaber, both of them get a force vision. So I was thinking that Rey’s force vision is still the same as it was in the final cut of the movie, but with Finn’s force vision this is where we find out important things about what happened before the events of the movie. I was thinking that through Finn’s force vision, We would see the origins of Ben Solo to his fall to the dark side and Luke’s new Jedi Order at it’s peak. But I was also thinking that through this force vision we’d learn of Luke’s children and we’d learn that he had 2 kids with Mara Jade and it would be revealed that Rey is the long lost daughter of Luke Skywalker and that she had an older brother named Wedge Skywalker. Wedge was a Jedi Knight and he was helping his dad and several other masters train the next generation of Jedi, Ben was included in this. He started his Jedi training after using his grandfather’s lightsaber to help save Luke in a battle against sith acolytes. Luke welcomed him with open arms and so did the rest of the Jedi order. He trained and was learning to become an amazing Jedi. He and Wedge had rivalry going on due to both of them being cousins and be competitive. Also Luke’s Jedi Order in this headcanon/theory of mine is like his Legends Jedi Order Ben’s turn could start due to the fact that he believed that the empire kept real order in the galaxy. Something that the Republic is struggling to do. He and Wedge had multiple conversations on it which would end with them arguing on what was best for the Galaxy. Because of that, and due to Ben seeing how the new republic were making some of the same mistakes the old one did, Ben started to become more ruthless, angry and fed up with the way the Jedi did things and that led him down a dark line of thinking. Wedge saw this and tried to do something about it and so did Luke and Mara, but Ben was falling down a dark path and maybe it could be here that Snoke could be introduced and he could promise to bring true order to the empire. Ben started his fall to the dark after that and it didn’t help that Luke left the Jedi order to try to see if the rumors of the First Order held any merit. He left Mara as the acting grandmaster till he came back, Ben was getting worse and he wasn’t getting any better. It got even worse when Wedge had a vision of his cousin killing everyone in the temple and he saw Rey being killed by him too, so he made a plan that he shared with his mother in bringing Rey to Jakku so she would be safe from Kylo’s massacre. So Rey is saved by her older brother but is tragically left on Jakku for 14 years because of the Jedi massacre. After Wedge left Rey on Jakku, knowing that it would be the last time he saw her, he went back to the temple to face his death head on. Ben started killing former friends, masters and fellow Palawan’s and currently he was engaged in a duel with his Aunt Mara and she was losing. He landed a blow that decided the fight and before he could strike her down, Wedge saved his mom and told her to leave while he faced Ben. Wedge and Ben had one last conversation on the state of the Galaxy and how to bring order to it. Ben offered him to join him in bringing true order to the galaxy, Wedge refused stating that he will always be a Jedi and that he’ll bring peace instead of Order to the Galaxy. Then they fought for one last time and it was a long battle, they were evenly matched for ever blow and strike was perfectly matched and blocked by the other. Then Ben landed a fatal blow and held his cousin as he was dying, he told that he was sorry things had come to this and that he should’ve joined him. Wedge replied that even though the order was gone once again, Ben would be stopped by new Jedi in the future trained by his uncle. Ben replied they would fall to his blade all the same, before killing him. Then Ben left to go to where the Knights of Ren where to join them. At the same time Luke came back to his temple and was walking over the bodies of his students and then he found the bodies of his son and wife. Mara was dead once Ben landed that blow on her and she used the last of her strength to crawl over to Wedge and hold him as she died. Luke found them like that. And he was so heartbroken that he just walked away from and he told R2 that he wasn’t coming back. That caused R2 to shut down and he’s been like that in the resistance base since then. The vision ends with Ben joining the Knights of Ren and him forging his crossguard lightsaber and becoming Kylo Ren. Then after both Finn and Rey have their respective vision. Rey get repelled by the lightsaber and runs away and Finn stays behind. Now Luke having kids with Mara Jade, Rey being a Skywalker by blood and that whole backstory of Ben and the peak of the Jedi order was my little head canon based off of the original script written for TFA. But imagine how much better it would’ve made Rey and it would’ve made those Mary Sue arguments obsolete since she’s a Skywalker too.
I like it that you mentioned Arcane, haven't seen it, but this is how you do a sad villain's origin story. Even without the Prequels, it isn't too hard to find he was corrupted and manipulated and we can empathize with it a little. With Anakin/Vader, even if the Prequels weren't great, he had understandable reasons to become selfish, untrusting, and unstable. He made bad decisions, refused guidance out of pride that "I'm the chosen one, I'll be powerful enough to ___", and suffered for it.
Pardon my interpretation and terrible memory, could you explain to me that the Jedi did try to help him? Because I don't remember a single scene where whenever he did ask them for help they offered helpful advice or didn't treat him like an absolute punching bag despite the fact he was the "chosen one". As a matter of fact, I believe that they only use the "chosen one" line whenever they need to put Anakin in his place rather than to revere him, which honestly is like poetry, it rhymes in the most ironic sense. Especially Mace Windu, who exemplified everything wrong with the Jedi order in the first place. He was strong with the force, used his self-righteousness as a way to justify his ego and stoicism which are always a dangerous combination, talk to Plo Koon if you want to see a Jedi who's self-righteous stoicism fueled his humble culture in his response to the clones line of "Why are you so concerned about our safety, sir? We are clones, we are meant to be expendable", which was "Not to me.". That is commonly agreed upon to be the most Jedi thing a Jedi should say. And then there is how Mace Windu told Anakin to "take a seat", imagine that, the one who will bring balance to the force is being treated as though he nothing more than a new Padawan. And he didn't once use his "Chosen One" status in the entire film unless he is talking to Padme about how unfair these expectations are of him as a *Jedi*. I do not think he once bought wholesale the whole "chosen one" business, he just did it because that is what his supposed "father figure" Obi-Wan Kenobi expected of him and what he was on the council for, he just asked to be a Jedi master that meeting because he doesn't understand why he gets to be on the Jedi Council and not carry the title to say that he is on the council. It's like being a part of a high-ranking community in everything but name, which basically means that you would have to be invited to the meetings because if you start up a meeting yourself the other superiors will say "but you don't have the permission to do that". You can still speak as one, you can still give suggestions, you just won't be as respected because you aren't a leader, your a trooper being put on a leadership council. That is what upsets him, he's basically a junior in a room full of seniors. And how Mace Windu treats him is practically the defining moment of how this problem would be the norm, if he asks for something like to veto a vote to go attack and investigate a separatist planet, he will most likely be ignored completely. His veto can be nulled and void, his voice can be removed at any moment, his every decision can be critized without him being able to say a single thing back because he isn't a Jedi Master and no one else agrees with him. He would literally have to convince the other Jedi Masters to support him to have him have even a inkling of a chance to be acknowledged, and yet there is always Mace Windu and Master Yoda to talk him down. And the worst part about this is, he fought *for* the Jedi. He was in the Clone Wars, he bended the rules a lot throughout them and he oftentimes took questionable decisions but overall, he was an integral part of the war. Heck, a majority of the wars might've been lost or drawn out too long and a good amount of good people like Padme and Plo Koon might've died if not for his recklessness, heck, if it weren't for him, Ahsoka would've probably taken his place as Vader or been as bad as the rest of the Jedi Masters and continued their stagnation if it wasn't for how he taught her to be more patient, wait for the opponent to show their weakness or to take advantage of what they say or do, and to always do what's right, no matter if some Council or Senate wants you to be in a certain place at a certain time. Overall, Anakin did everything that was necessary of him as a Jedi and yet, from his perspective, it isn't enough to get the respect that other typical Jedi get. Which is what led him to go deeper and deeper into the darkside and what made it so easy for Palpatine to manipulate him. He just never felt as though he was respected in his opinions, in just who he was as a Jedi. He interpreted every single time Obi-Wan makes his smart remarks at him over how he tries to be a Jedi to be condescending, he viewed Mace Windu as an enemy, and he disliked how the council shafted him over as an errand boy by the Jedi. And yet, despite Palpatine basically doing the same thing to him but just disguising it as a noble honor to give him the opportunity to prove his change into Vader to him when he sent him to track down the Jedi and to slaughter everyone in the Jedi Temple, even the little younglings which according to one comic he basically justified in his mind as being mercy from both Palpatine and their path towards becoming Jedi, which I forgot why though I do know where I got this source. A Geetsly video that's basically titled "Why Anakin was more Vader-like after he killed the Separatists". Anyway, I am most certainly not defending his decisions, if I had the time to write out a script arguing how he should've just sold Palpatine out and then left the Jedi Temple with Padme instead of going through with the slaughter and ending the age of the Jedi, the age of where really and honestly anyone could ever have any hope of feeling safe from the police. He basically doomed the entire galaxy to tyranny under a Sith Lord and the rest of the Republic-now-turned-Empire Military Men. And I will never stand for that. I am not defending Vaders actions as a Sith, I am trying to detail out how Anakin's fall was so easy to be corrupted and that he did ask for help where none was. Or at least, none that was helpful. Just remember the advice that Yoda gave him in regards to worrying about Padme dying, to just not worry about about it and instead be glad over the fact that despite her time was going to end, new life would grow from her death supplying the force. That was honestly a selfish response from Yoda, instead at the bare minimum he could've offered his apologies and to give him advice to spend the last days with her being happy because that is what she would've wanted him to be and even let him take time off his Jedi duties because clearly he isn't emotionally capable of carrying them out in a Jedi-like manner, he could've even helped him to better interpret those dreams to give him a picture of who would kill her, who could kill her. And if he didn't do that, then Anakin should've ran as far away from the Jedi as possible, maybe take Padme on a little "diplomatic mission" to Ahsoka and check up with how she is, and then continue running with the headstart he's given himself while explaining to both of them everything, since he himself knows he can trust them both. That would've fit his character and been the right choice for him to take. Honestly, Padme herself should've taught him to learn to know which fights he can win and which ones he's just got to get away from. Anyway, all I've got left to say is that this is all just my opinion, and probably not facts. So, you can just go on to check what I've said and that you can disagree with my interpretation.
@@ragnarian Hmm, maybe I'll give some clips a shot here and there cause it doesn't look like it's not over violent and adult. And I honestly can't handle those types of films, they're just my kryptonite.
@@StoryTeller796 The Lucasfilm story group should take notes from you. Someone who understands way Anakin fell. These days they seem to only look the the surface and say it was because of attachments and that he just cared too much about other that case him to fall but leaving every other factor that contributed to his turned to the Darkside.
Kylo wears a mask just to be mysterious, except he takes it off at every opportunity. Even Snoke knew how pretentious the helmet was and demanded him to take it off. On the flip side, Darth Vader wears the helmet and the rest of his uniform because he has it to keep him alive. I believe it was Obi Wan who once said he was more machine than man. This made all of us wonder just how much of Anakin is there left inside those mechanisms? Vader was never seen without his helmet. In three whole movies, audience got to see one short shot of Vader without his helmet, but it was just the back of his discolored head. He appeared grey, like the color of a corpse. That was until near the end of Return Of The Jedi, after he had turned to the light side of the force, that Luke took off his helmet with Vader actually telling him to so he could finally see his son with his real eyes. That was the first time anyone saw Anakin Skywalker in the flesh. We still never found out how much of him was machine, but we could see his face for the first time. This is one reason that Kylo Ren didn’t have the same mysterious presence of Darth Vader.
@@SakiBlablabla Yes, it was much better not knowing. The most frightening thing in any horror film is often the monster you can’t see. Our imaginations are typically more terrifying than any special effects can deliver.
Kylo's design (and writing) kinda makes me suspect that he was intended as a "Revan-Type" character, rather than a repeat of Vader. Even his flip-flopping between Light and Dark is very Revan-esque in concept (albeit a poor imitation). That could honestly have been interesting... Unfortunately, for that to work, it would've required writers with actual talent and a cohesive plan for the entirety of the sequel trilogy.
Someone explained it as him hiding himself because he didn’t feel evil enough. Seeing how obvious his emotions are on his face makes this kind of make sense. Hard to strike fear when you haven’t got a poker face. Having Adam driver not use his face to act would have been a travesty though. But as is said here the reasons are never fleshed out so it’s up to the viewer to make it all make sense.
While I absolutely agree Kylo ren was the most interesting character in the sequel trilogy, at the same time, I'm afraid Luke's characterisation here seemed more mean spirited on the part of the writers, just an excuse to break down an iconic male character, like showing Han becoming separated from Leya and going back to smuggling. its not just Luke's attempted moment of child murder, but the fact that his response to this was sit around and let the first order take over the galaxy without raising a finger, then when he finally meets Kylo, there is no compassion, no attempt at redemption on his part. The idea of Luke failing Kylo ren is a good one in principle, but the failing would have to match the Luke we know, albeit an older luke. For example, supposed Luke failed to save Kylo ren from a dangerous training situation he got into, or suppose the temple caught on fire and Luke, having seen dark side potential in Kylo Ren, blamed him for it when it wasn't his fault, ---- not tried to kill him, merely washed his hands of responsability for him and told him to leave and find his own path since Luke plainly couldn't teach him. Luke was always defined by his compassion, and there was none if this in his treatment of Kylo, which I'm afraid I'm fairly certain was entirely purposeful on the part of Lucas films, since it is against their religion to show a male exhibiting any virtue but goofy humour and subservience and admiration of powerful female characters, as happened with both Fin and Po.
Of course the writing was mean spirited, half the people at Lucasfilm spend all day ranting on social media about Luke being the face of the evil "white saviors".
I still cannot believe that their idea was to have the son of Anakin Skywalker not realize the danger of acting rashly upon Force visions. They had him attempt to murder a child in cold blood because he had a vision the child would become evil- just like Anakin murdered untold innocents in an attempt to gain the power to save Padme from a fate his own actions eventually condemned her to. And Luke just said "oh hey he's gonna be evil? Should I maybe try to watch over him, offer a guiding hand to prevent him falling to the dark side? Nah, kill him in his sleep."
I don't know, feels more realistic for our heroes to have their faults & flaws. It'd be too saccharine & unrelatable otherwise. Plus, Han & Leia were always going to struggle due to how fiercely independent they both are - neither could compromise on their life goals.
You want saccharine, flawwless and unrelatable? Take a look at Rey. Han and Leia I utterly disagree on, since they show a clear development in their relationship in the three films. The bickering Han and Leia of a new hope certainly weren't a steady couple, but the Han who was prepared (if rather grumpily), to stand aside and not get in Leia's way with Luke (as he thought), in empire, and the Leia who mounted a rescue mission to Jaba's palace to save him were not the same couple at all. Again, there's no reason old characters don't have flaws or can't struggle, or can't learn from the new generation. Look at the relation between Luke and Obi wan in the series. Obi wan starts as the flawlesss mentor, gives up his life when he believes Vader's defeat is certain, then continues to guide Luke. However, once Luke disagrees and impulsively rushes off to confront Vader, Obi Wan cannot interfere, indeed in the end, Yoda and Obi wan were shown to be wrong about the possibility of good in Vader, for all their wisdom and training. Rey however learns nothing from Luke, Luke is shown as nothing but a weak, broken old man, and indeed needs a telling off from Yoda himself. Even Luke's sacrifice felt more like cowardice, giving up on Kylo ren in a way totally at odds with his previous character. So while I agree in principle that yes, characters need flaws, the way the sequel trilogy tried to create them, and who they gave them to was at best a severely mistaken course in writing, at worst, an active attempt to undermine the past heroes (especially the past male heroes), in an effort to make the current heroes, well to be honest just Rey, look overpowered and, and perfect.
Kylo Ren redemption could have only worked IF They kept him alive and well, with the last minutes of the film trying to fix his mistakes or helping rebuild a new jedi order that isnt as dogmatic as the first one. Or better yet, have Rey being the one who dies, kylo changes due to this event, and tries to be better in honor of her memory. Sure, not perfect on any cases, but its something more than a lightsaber delivery boy
true. I'm so fed up with the "redemption means death" trope. Redemption takes more than a brief moment of shifting heart. Actually acting for years on your new commitments is what is admirable and actually allows you to repair what you've done. (With some exceptions of course. Vader was long-broken and barely alive, and nobody would have trusted him to bring change, so peace was a fine end.)
imagine trying to do a redemption arc a martyr ending AND enemies to lovers with a single character in the span of a single movie, with barely any set up whatsoever
I think it would've been better without the redemption, honestly - If instead of "somehow Palpatine has returned" Kylo had taken the mantle of "Big Bad Guy" for the final movie, and found his stride as a proper villain, able to put his insecurities to rest and be completely ruthless and unapologetically evil. Rey, who up to that point had developed a sort of "relationship" with Kylo, thinking she could "redeem" him, would then be faced with the unfortunate reality that things "hadn't turned out the way she thought" - as Luke had warned her, and perhaps her vain attempt to redeem Kylo was actually what finally gave him the confidence and self-assuredness to usurp Snoke.
I really liked Kylo despite his lack of background, but like you mentioned: context is everything. When PROFESSIONAL WRITERS opt to tell and not show (and even then only give the bare minimum if that) relating to a characters past, you get characters like Kylo who suffer because of it. Just telling the audience of a tragic backstory and showing key breaking points without giving reasons as to why they happen robs them of the context and even empathy. People make fun of the whole tragic backstory trope but it legitimately works when done right. Understanding why a character, who in some cases can be a fallen hero, snapped and just how they got there can be incredibly intriguing and human. You can’t slap on the shallow tragedy and expect people to care. You need to give them a reason TO care. Even if they don’t agree with the path said character has chosen, seeing the reasons why the act they way the do helps us understand their actions. You can like a character who isn’t a likeable person because of how they choose to deal (or ignore) their issues. When you pointed out that Kylo should’ve been the main character I’d actually never thought if that before, I always thought it should be Finn. Imagine if we had an Anakin-like arc that started with young Ben being pulled to the Dark Side and becoming pushed away by his family and master because of it. He’d be so conflicted in the second movie and and eventually choose the Light Side by the end, fitting the title The Rise of Skywalker. That would’ve been so cool! Adam’s performance was great, but having a gripping new story with much-needed context would have really let him shine. I know that comics exist to fill in the gaps, but a good movie should be the full package and not rely on outside material. The issue of not being self-contained was one of the many faults of the Sequels, amongst, you know, other things. What you said about Luke trying to kill Kylo in reference to their relationship’s context really made me think. Great vid Nutsa, I appreciate your work. - Starc0unter Video Essays
There's "professional", meaning getting paid, as which the writers of the sequel trilogy certainly qualify, and then there's professional, meeting treating one's vocation as a serious profession, by which metric the writers of the sequel trilogy were rank amateurs.
I think the lack of focus when it comes to Luke and Ben’s relationship is that JJ wasn’t interested in exploring it. If you look at TFA and TROS, he seemed far more interested in Ben’s relationship with his father, Han Solo, than his relationship with any other character. This isn’t just exclusive to Luke either. Look at how unsatisfying the kiss between Rey and Ben is in TROS compared to their hand touch in TLJ, or the scenes between Hux and Kylo in TLJ compared to their scenes together in TFA or TROS. It’s clear that Rian mapped out the relationships between characters for TLJ and attempted to give each one their time in the sun. Whether you think the writing of those relationships is good is another thing, but at least Rian explored the dynamics between characters in a more organic way than JJ and Chris did in TROS.
Kind of applies to most writing, honestly. When it comes to storytelling genuinely bad ideas are pretty rare - What matters is how well the story is told.
I didn't realize how badly Kylo Ren's redemption arc (really most redemption arcs) was handled until after I saw Arcane. Powder/Jinx is a character whom I desperately want to see redeemed, even though I'm not entirely sure she can be anymore, and I can't remember the last time I felt that way about a villain.
I agree with most of your points. One Main Problem is also that the Marketing weren't on Kylo's side either. They ALL but Promoted the Vader 2.0 So people were left surprised that He was way more than a Second Darth Vader. I wonder why Rey's relationship to him isn't mentioned at all. A Romance between the protagonist & the villain can also create sympathy to the villain. Tho Kylo gained sympathy through Adams acting rather
Yup. Ever since that kiss, LF hardly mentions their romance save for the occasional small reference. They try to describe their relationship as diplomatically as possibly, which sucks. They bring up an idea, only to not fully commit to it. That can be why some people aren't invested as much in it.
How was he not a second Vader? He's literally just a lazy rehash of the guy. Corrupted by Palpatine, turns evil, wears a mask, changes his name, serves of #2 for the Empire, obsesses over turning the hero evil and killing his former master, then redeems himself (on the second death star no less) and dies saving the hero from Palpatine in a throne room showdown. He's literally the laziest rip off of Vader you could be.
@@ergob3907 Which is funny, as JJ said Lucas ruined Vader the moment Luke was revealed to be his son, and he hated the redemption as Vader was no longer a big bad.
adam driver is the reason why kylo ren is the most compelling character in the sequels. he understood the assignment more than the teachers who made the fcukng assignment. 🙄 the amount of effort he put into the character is more than what they deserve from all the BS.
This is the video that made me aware that Arcane was more than "just another video game show" and made me actually go watch it. I literally paused the video a bit into Part 2 to binge all of Arcane in a single day. I was so blown away by it, that I forgot this video existed (sorry) and only came back to finish watching the rest and comment on it now (several months later).
I mean I always felt bad for the character but I guess that was because it was wasted potential in a world where he had to play second fiddle to a diverse main character. He honestly could have been so great. AND YES Adam Driver is who convinced me to think that. Not Kylo Ren the character, but Adam Driver the actor (with hopeless scripts and a hopeless role and he still delivers at least some good acting). Also a seperate Arcane video? Yes please count me in
One of the things I liked about Ren in Force Awakens was due to Yoda´s old line. "Fear leads to Anger, anger to Hatred, hatred to Suffering." When Ren destroyed the console in an outburst, my reaction was, "oh, he´s still in the Anger phase, I guess." With Jynx, I didn´t need to guess. Perfection.
I used to be tentatively optimistic about Kylo Ren... during the first movie, that is. During those times when silly hopeful me still had some kind of hope than in the subsequent two movies would flesh out more the characters, the motivations, the story and basically: deliver a good and compelling Star Wars story overall. "Yeah, Force Awakens had it's flaws, but there's still two movies to come: I'm SURE they will use that time well!" Silly, silly innocent past me.
Kylo Ren/Ben Solo deserved so much better! Especially Setting up his redemption and then ignoring it when the BIG MOMENT the Trilogy Set you up happens. You explained this problem Very well!!
When I first heard that the movie was called The Rise of Skywalker, I thought it would center on Kylo's redemption or Luke returning to help like he had at the end of TLJ. Because both of them are Skywalkers. I would much rather have followed Kylo Ren as the protagonist than Rey. If they had kept the entire trilogy focused on Kylo Ren, it would have been much more interesting. And it could turn the repetitiveness of the Star Wars franchise into something deep. It always seemed to me that Kylo's desire was to be loved. From what we are shown in the movies, he had a better relationship with Leia (a force user) than with Han (a non-force user). This set a pattern off of which he based all human interaction. His differing relationships with his parents creates a link in Ben's brain between the Force and familial love because the same person who loved him was a force user. This is reinforced when he is sent to train under Luke. And perhaps there is the added layer of "If I do well in the force, then people will love me". When Luke fails him, he turns to Snoke, because the sith are his only option. Strong force user = someone who cares, but he no longer trusts jedi. With this change comes his idealization of Vader. He wants to become strong in the Force as a way to prove his self-worth, and he thinks that Vader achieved this, thus Vader is his role model. He is also the only member of Kylo's family who has not turned on him -- because he died before Kylo was born. How heartbreaking, that this character is so hungry for connection and appreciation that he turns to dead men when he cannot find what he needs among the living. When he meets Rey, he wants a relationship with her, romantic or not, because of that desire. In the very least, he wants her as a coworker. When Han returns, bitterness drives Kylo to kill him. And when he is pressed to do the same thing to Leia, he cannot. He meets Luke again and lashes out, resulting in Luke's death. Through these three interactions, Kylo slowly realizes that even though his family misunderstood and feared him, they still loved him, and he loved them too. Yet instead of achieving his goal of being loved and appreciated, the dark side has made him kill or alienate anyone who could potentially do so. Again, this is reinforced by Rey's decision not to rule the galaxy with him. She will not accept him because he is a sith. [If you've made it this far, you're a beautiful human being and I love you for being able to read my ramblings.] Logically, what should have happened after this is Kylo flees and seeks a third option. But that's not what we got. And if they wanted to make the sequels a love letter to the originals, they could have done it in a more clever way. One of the themes of the trilogy could have been about reliving the same mistakes of the last generation. Instead of people being like "Oh, there's a bigger death star to blow up, nice, let's do that!" they could have had the attitude, "Again? Why are we living through the same horrid nightmare again? What have we done wrong? Will we never get it right? Why does life feel like some fever dream?" Leia and Han mishandled the Ben situation because they could only see another Vader. I would say that Luke mishandled the situation because of the opposite view -- his optimism and absolute faith in the goodness of humanity blinded him to the fact that his nephew could turn to the dark side. So rather than help Ben face the dark parts of himself, he pretended that they didn't exist. The only logical conclusion that I can take away from the mess that is TLJ is that Luke must have had some interaction with Kylo where Kylo displayed dark side abilities, which scared Luke into thinking irrationally. (I hate that Luke was willing to kill his own nephew. I hate it. That's not Luke. But I'll try to make sense of it). It would have made more sense if we had a point where this was shown. Maybe instead of reminding him of Vader, Kylo reminded Luke of himself. Every religious man struggles with his own temptations from time to time, and I wouldn't be surprised if Luke was still tempted by the dark side. According to the light side philosophy, the best way to deal with feelings is to let them die (which is not emotionally healthy in any way, but fine). Luke sees Kylo as a walking manifestation of his own temptations and weaknesses, thus his impulse is to kill him. I don't think he would go as far as attempting it, but that could be his knee-jerk reaction. Everyone in this trilogy is haunted, once way or another, by past actions, of themselves or of others. With all this as the groundwork, it could have been a brilliant story about connection, reconciling past mistakes, and the question of whether or not to have faith in something or someone who could let you down (ie, the jedi order. After the prequels and the sequels, who trusts them at this point?) The jedi bleach themselves of all emotion that could cause harm -- which is flawed, because we have anger, hatred, and passion for a reason. They can frequently be negative, but they can also be positive. The sith keep their emotions bottled up and allow them to fester, giving them power. What if Kylo found a middle ground where one was allowed to feel a full range of emotion, but keep a balanced level of each? In my mind, that would be the fulfillment of the prophecy about Anakin -- think about it. He abolished both the jedi order and the sith order. To find a balance between the two, one must reject both. He tore the old structure down, but Kylo is a second fulfillment of the prophecy because he builds something new in it's place. An order that takes the healthiest aspects of the light and dark sides and combines them into one. All the pieces were there. I'm a sixteen year old in an arm chair and I made this up in the past half hour. DISNEY! WHY????? Also, to anyone reading this now, a thousand blessings on you and your household. 🥰😘👏
The thing I thought of during this film is that it would have been probably good to have some dialogue for Kylo like "I want more, but I know I shouldn't." Which, since it is prequel dialogue, is exactly why Abrams didn't want it on his Star Wars. Great video! Definitely kept me thinking. I also appreciate the memes and edits in this one!
Kyle Ren is basically two things. One. He is Darth Vader in Episode IV, if you had never seen episode IV or indeed any of the OT and were describing him to someone that had also never seen the OT. He is what Vice would describe Vader as. Tall. Angry. Kills people. Dark armour. Deep voice. Wears a mask and a cape. But completely missed the bits that actually makes (or made, since Kenobi is now a thing) Vader the single greatest villain in all of film. Calculating, deliberate, efficient, implacable, ruthless, enigmatic. Two. He suffers from what I call 'The Raiden Effect'. Remember Raiden from Metal Gear Solid? Yeah, him. When he was introduced at the start of the main storyline in Sons of Liberty, and everyone thought 'Hang on, that's not Snakes voice!?' And then 'ok, well this looks like an interesting start, hopefully he's just as cool as Snake.' Remember how long that thought lasted? I do. It lasted until roughly 5 minutes in when he takes his fucking mask off and this whiney blonde haired man-girl emo appeared and the mystique instantly evaporated. I've never got over that. And the same thing happened in the cinema with Ren. 'Oh wow, he's just stopped a goddamn blaster bolt in mid-flight and he tortures people. This sounds like a real terrifying antago...wow, mate, what are you doing? No, don't take the mask off...stop, dude, not yet...at least wait til the second movie...what the fuck, he looks like he's gonna start self harming any second now.
This video was insanely well made and I cant even start to think about how much time went into the editing, script and overall thought behind. This is not another video that just hates on the sequels, this is an in dept video made by a worried fan who expected a lot more made out of the history and memories of Star Wars. Which was and is an important memory of times of quality and passion. Great video.
Very well done. The juxtaposition of Arcane with the sequel trilogy was just *chef’s kiss*. I hope that Hollywood’s audience pandering in place of thoughtful writing can end. But it’s been years now…
You're right, he was the best character of that dumpster fire. The actor made him as likable as he was, but he can only do so much. Without direction or decent writing, it turned a potentially good character into a joke. And after TLJ, I was done with Star Wars. I didn't even watch the final movie. And until Disney takes their movie writing seriously, I'm pretty much done with Star Wars and Marvel, for that matter.
So I don‘t usually comment on videos but I just wanted to say that I have been binge-watching your videos lately and I am truly intrigued by your thoughts and opinions on such polarising matters. The sincerity that you display particularly also in this video is one of the reasons why I truly enjoy watching you content. The way you talk about and approach your topics and the amount of effort you put into making these videos is immensely impressive and inspiring. You also really sparked my interest in Arcane. I never quite got myself round to watching it but now I’m definitely going to. I‘d like to thank you for your work and your time you spend sharing you thoughts and passion with us. Also I really like your humor :)
The people who understood Kyle Ren From the first violent episode; are most likely people who grew up in very abusive and violent households. When you experience CPTSD on a daily occurrence, it’s very easy to identify. I didn’t need to have it blatantly showcased to understand. As someone whose mother left him on a street corner and father who beat him and emotionally abused him. Kylo exhibits early stage ptsd. They actually make his redemption arc move much quicker than is what’s realistic. What is real; is Adam Drivers portrayal of the shame rage.
the sequels should’ve been the story of luke and ben, with the first movie showing ben’s downfall, the second introducing rey and finn and also giving more backstory to his relationship with his parents, and the third movie bringing everything together and giving ren a conclusion to his conflicted mind
The reason vader worked so well is partially because we got to see his villainous actions and then later his redemption in the OT, and then later his fall from grace in the prequels, kylo is usually treated as a joke
All they had to do, was create a few flashbacks of accidents involving kylo, and add in a touch of snoke as he was established(not really but) as a growing threat and was manipulating kylo. But we as an audience r shown nothing but as u said, a moment without context
This essay has given me hope that maybe with expanded tv shows the sequel trilogy could be revitalized with needed context similar to how the clones wars tv show saved the prequels.
Excellent, informative video. I always felt like kylo's character lacked a lot of context but laser swords go woosh so I passed it off as Boba Fett bait (cool suit + demeanor = intentional fan favorite)
Yo epic video drop! Will listen to this later! But I always am excited for your videos because I get to actually think. Two things I looks forward to for a Nutsa vid. "Sooo" and then that my brain has to turn on to process intellectual discussion.
Once again, we see Arcane succeed with its character development, where other stories have failed. I've never played League of Legends, but Arcane is one of favorite shows.
Vader's story was already far more tragic then anything the Sequel writers could have created and even if they would good, how could you top the story of a "slave who set out to make the world a better place and protect his loved ones, loses every last one of them because those who should have been guiding him were too busy neglecting him and telling and making it very clear to him he is unwanted and a menace and always telling him righting the wrongs of the world is not his job and then, proceed to tell him to cut off all attachments to his loved ones and leave them to ther fate, and finally, only finding the guiding parental figure and acceptance in a evil guy who manipulated and tempted him by playing to everything he ever wanted, only to lose the final ties to his humanity in losing his wife and children because he was led to believe he killed them all." I mean, really.
How cool would it have been to get a backstory to Kylo. Young ben going through his Jedi training, learning to pilot starships and showing his sky walker side
The funniest thing for me is that Kylo and Rey are very clearly inspired by the Extended Universe books. Like they had all the framework they needed and enough lore to sell a compelling character arc and then went "welp, we tried" and hobbled together a half-baked character arc
I absolutely LOVE the edits to this video. The Jinx-like scribbles of Vader, the warped voices Kylo could be hearing in his head the way Jinx hears voices... ah, the wasted potential. I absolutely fell in love with the potential of Kylo, to the point that even considering the absolute face slap that was TROS, he's still tied for my favorite character ever alongside Jinx. Maybe one day someone can do an Arcane-style series focused on how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren (and if we're REALLY lucky, maybe a second season of this show would fix the events of the sequel trilogy)
The piece you are missing to Kylo/Hans relationship is the deep wound of an abandoned child. If Han/Leia had kept Ben and raised him instead of shipping him off to Luke, a single man who never prioritized having his own family, then Ben would never have gone off the deep end. Another option would have been for Luke and Leia/Han should have raised him together as a whole family unit. This is where the Skywalker family have a "neglected/abondoned child" generational curse. Luke and Leia didn't suffer it because Obi-wan placed them in healthy families.
For some reason when i watched Kylo breaking stuff with his sword i felt deeply understandable for him, because this is what i want to do constantly in my mental breakdowns. Also when he was punching his wound, because I do this all the time too.
This was a great analysis I 100% agree. If we got some more flashbacks with Luke and Kylo it would have made us understand Kylo more. It would also help us empathize with Luke’s decision to be a depressed hermit. Especially if Luke and Kylo’s relationship was strong until that tragic night.
I agree. Kylo was probably my favorite part of the whole train wreck sequel trilogy because of that missed potential they could have given him. They took some inspiration from the EU Bloodlines series, but they don't understand the character at all! Heck, fanfic can probably give him a consistent arc compared to the flip flop of the sequels.
Luke never gave up on family and friends regardless of whether they were blood or found. He didn't give up on Vader despite being egged on by the MOST EVIL MAN IN THE GALAXY.. but somehow he gave up on his innocent nephew because of a vision, which he as Jedi Master, knows aren't set in stone. I'll NEVER be able to move past that. Luke losing his way as a Jedi is a PROFOUND AND INTERESTING idea, and honestly the only spot left to go after the OT and learning what he could about the Clone Wars, his loss of religion but not of faith is VERY interesting. But he'd never EVER consider killing an innocent man, in sleep, in a fight, or otherwise. That. Is. Not. Luke.
haven't even started watching and I feel like you deserve way more than likes and views with that kind of animation, drawings and editing edit: really well put out, thanks for your effort :) btw at 20:15 you missed a massive chance to mention Sabine ngl
I can't remember which of the solo kids went Dark side in the books but he at least had a good reason, there needed to be a sequence of events to usher in a golden age that would last I think it was 10,000 years for the galaxy, unfortunately that sequence needed a sith lord/dark jedi to lead the imperial remnants. In the films "my uncle though I was going to turn evil and in a moment of weakness stood over me with a lightsaber but I escaped and now I'm going to show him by... turning to the dark side?" because after all the most powerfull jedi alive who already has his weapon out can't possibly end a single sleeping/scared padiwan before he escapes a planet.
I actually liked the introduction of Kylo. We all had insane expectations what character we get and how he will live up to Darth Vader, and so we got a character which struggles to be like him. We feel decieved when he takes of his helmet and we see the boy for real. Its a fassade he puts on to mimic the power of that thing we all wanted to see. I think at least the concept deserves praise.
Thanks for exploring Ben Solo more! He is one of, if not my favorite SW characters. I do agree that the audience seeing more more of his background actually play out on screen would have helped in them being able to understand how the character and his behavior is motivated; however, you state that they are given no objective truth when it comes to what happened the night Luke went to him. The whole reason we are shown the same scene a third time in TLJ is to in fact show us the honest truth about what happened, without the influence of bias like in the last two versions. Either way, it sucks that TROS treated him, their other main character, the way they did. He didn't significantly receive as much screentime in comparison to the resistance gang and when he is redeemed, we get a near dialogue-less ten or twelve minutes with him. Why did they even need to kill him at all? The story would have been so much more interesting with him surviving. We could've seen how the Resistance would react to former Supreme Leader of the FO turned good. We could have seen him possibly try to now figure out how to stone for all the damage he caused. And we also could have seen how he worked with Rey, the other half of the new dyad concept the film makes a point of being so important. But no. Bye bye Ben. You have done a good deed. We have no possible reason to look at you anymore.
To be blunt about it, Kylo Ren obviously struck out to me as the archetype of a School Shooter. It's a dark character type, but a new direction for the villain and one that is relevant to the public consciousness. But they didn't want to lean into something that controversial or be competent in their handling of anything but especially of such a sensitive manner.
Nah they ruined him by revealing he used to be a smuggler. Now he's another swash buckling jacket wearing former spice smuggler turned ace rebel hero. Just cemented him as a Han Solo rip off
Yeah, you summed it up well. The sequel trilogy had so much potential. They set up so many good stories and then just did almost nothing with them, except for the bits where they remembered their own plot and then proceeded to completely fuck it up.
I disagree that Silco manipulates jinx. Manipulating someome (in this context) is purposely misleading them for your own gain. Thats not what Silco does. Everything he tells Jinx he believes. The fact that Silco himself is a war torn and damaged individual and he ends up projecting his own trauma and insecurities into her is not a malicious or devious act but one rooted in concern and triggerd by his own fears. As far as I can tell he never lied to Jinx. Aside from not telling her Vi was back but assuming he genuinly think Vi was there for the stone and that she would abandon jinx again, a sentiment he expresses more than once, even that could genuinly come from caring about jinx. Silco has massive trust issues after the whole Vander dispute (there are without a doubt a whole pile of other things but the Vander dispute is the one they picked to represent it) and could never trust him again, from his personality its very likely he believes the same about Vi. The whole reason he took jinx in instead of killing her in the first place was because he saw himself in her. He knew the betrayal of his brother and could never trust him again. In Jinx he saw the betrayal of her sister and she shouldnt trust her again. Its a direct parallell. As F:ed as Silco is, he geniunely loved Jinx... shes probably the only person he ever truely cared about since him and Vander parted ways. And considering how things play out, I highly doubt he ever did anything to harm or decieve her. Not on purpose anyway. Silco told jinx alot of things that werent necissarily correct... but he BELIEVED them to be, thats not the same as lying or manipulating, thats just being wrong. Id rather use a neutral word like "influence". Silco had a bad influence on Jinx. Also to whatever smartypants who wanna quote the dictionary definition on me. Yes, I know "manipulating" can mean literally any action that has an effect on something/someone else. But in this context thats not what it means or it would literally hold no meaning cuz EVERYONE would be manipulating everyone and everything they come in contact with and pointing this out would be a massive exercise in redundancy.
kylo's turn to the dark side is pretty shitty, i can get why he's mad at jake skywalker but killing all the students was a step too far, even the comics realized this and made him regret his actions
You know, I think cutting back on Rey's importance would have been smarter, maybe hand the lead role to Boyega and darken his character arc more. He ain't comic relief, he's literally a stormtrooper trying to turn away from the First Order and their Dark Side shenanigans. Could have gotten an on screen version of something closer to Atton Rand, but nope! Gotta stuff in a mary sue to show those silly boys some Grrl Power.
Of all the Sequel Trilogy characters, the best by far was BB-8 because honestly, there's nothing to really object to about him. He's consistently likable, he's expressive, he's got great gadgets, and he's a pretty decent extension of the evolution of astromechs... and he is a great toy, just like they wanted all along. He is a bit of a replacement for R2-D2, and that is a shame, but since he is, what a replacement! In terms of character, R2 still has more, but BB-8 is by far the best addition to Star Wars to come out of the Sequels, and JJ gets one shred of respect from me for that, although I can also easily take it away because of D-0; I hate that character so much. Oh right, this is a video about Kylo Ren. I did not once like him in The Force Awakens because of his emotional outbursts, nothing seemed believable to me that this guy was second in command to everything. The Last Jedi did a lot to make him an actual character in my opinion, I actually really liked him because he wasn't just a visage of Vader and while emotional, his outbursts came after Rey rejecting his offer to join forces after slowly manipulating her into believing they were fighting for the same thing. I'll accept that he's having a rough day after that. Also Hux keeps echoing all his orders, who wouldn't be annoyed? And then Rise of Skywalker happens and I lose all respect for him again because after doubling down and becoming Supreme Leader, he decides to just become second in command to a zombie and rebuilds his helmet whose destruction was a symbol of growth for the character. Yeah, that's pretty lame.
Every character in the ST is a rip off of an OT character except Finn. Rey is another desert planet hero who finds a rebel droid in the desert and gets chased off world, becomes a jedi, and is (PLOT TWIST) revealed to be the secret offspring of a sith lord. Poe is another drug smuggler turned ace rebel pilot. Kylo is Vader right down to dying saving the hero from Palpy in a throne room showdown. Snoke was a Palpatine clone who got replaced by a literal Palpatine clone.
How To Fail A Character: Gladiator Extended How Not To Fail A Character: Gladiator Theatrical The character I'm talking about is Commodus. Commodus was supposed to be the immoral but he still needed to be human. The extended version forgot about this. Honestly the lesson I learned most from the two movies combined is that scenes are cut from movies often for good reason.
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 The moviemakers radicalise Commodus so much in order to justify his sister's actions in the extended version. They turn Commodus from a self-centred, self-serving human villain to a laughably over-the-top idiot monster who will kill his subjects on a whim and destroy his own empire so his people will like him for a few days beforehand. I suppose what I'm saying is that the extended version removes Commodus's humanity and relatability from the movie.
Kylo’s trauma is about feeling rejected, dismissed, and unloved by his father giving him abandonment issues. He projects his need for a father figure onto Luke during training, and that’s what Snoke used to get into his head. From there it was easy to use his abandonment wound to convince him Luke was going to abandon him, creating the rift. Snoke convinced him to kill Hans to prove his hate, but he never hated his father, not really, it was a defense mechanism against his hurt feelings of abandonment. So at the end there, that moment with Hans was him finally getting the love and acceptance he needed from his father to begin to heal and move forward as a person. I’m pretty sure I only picked this up because of personal experiences and research, it was not written well like you said. Kylo is a whole bag of childhood trauma all centered around his parents. I think Leigh talks about it some, but we’re talking like single dropped sentences like it was not enough. I really liked a lot of your characterization points though, and the compare/contrast with another similar arch. I’m gonna look into that one thanks.
Offset your carbon footprint on Wren: www.wren.co/start/nutsa The first 100 people who sign up will have 10 extra trees planted in their name!
no i am noy n idiot so is not be doing that.
carbon crap is nothing but an tax on your carbon sin, for lack of another word. its empty and meaningless. plant trees, yes but also consider not living in a place that cannot sustain life as easy as other places.
Your transitions are amazing.
Nice video, u ever do a Batman video
i'm ngl i didnt like either character
Kylo and Finn are among the most wasted characters in this awful trilogy. Imagine if they were in the hands of someone like Timothy Zahn or Matthew Stover with Lucas overseeing the whole thing.
Stover and Zahn being part of the same writing table is the most amazing thing
Both of them would've been way better. Although I do like TFA's characterization of both, TLJ just shattered them both in a horrible way and Rise is a little better to me but both of them, especially Finn are missing very important character arcs.
Yeah. Imagine creating two characters with such amazing premices and possibilies for developement, and instead ditching them out entirely to a random nobody that has no connexion to anything whatsoever... The trilogy would be a thousand time better without Rey. How to fail at protagonist...
Zahn sucks and he writes stories for people who don't like Star Wars
imagine finn as the protag and ben solo as an anti-hero character (not as evil as vader but not as good as luke). that would've been so interesting
Disney Star Wars might’ve been slightly redeemed for me if they had actually killed Rey and left Ben Solo alive to pick up the pieces and deal with what he’s done. Imagine him going back to the rebel base carrying Rey’s body and having to explain what happened and it being an actual relative to go back to the homestead and put the lightsabers in the sand and speak with his uncle and mom. That would have been a halfway decent ending. The whole series should’ve been the saving of the last of the skywalker/solo.
That could've worked if they cut Force Healing from the movie entirely (which they DEFINITELY should've)
instead we got, ironically enough, the *extinction* of the Skywalker bloodline
May the force be with you!
Into the void with Disney!
I completely agree but after 7 years of going on about the force is female they would have been accused of doing her dirty and lost both sides of the fan base .
@@NinjaFlibble which is so sad and pathetic wtf...
I still struggle to understand why Kylo Ren didn't have a single line after his "redemption".
Cause the writers and more importantly the shareholders, sucked ass
not true. he at least said "ow" that was his last word lmao
He didn't apologize with Rey after everything he done to her either.
Why the directors and internet still saying that Kylo and Rey love each other? They are awful together..
@@monicaaboites5053 Ive always found Reylo just weird, random and fan servicy. it just doesnt make sense. in TFA, she feared him. in TLJ she hated him after he killed Han. and in TROS, she loves him? makes zero sense.
Why should he apologize to her!? They Are ENEMIES in a war in the beginning and Most Times he was on the defensive or tried to Talk to her to understand his POV. SHE IS ATTACKING him often, in Tros She Right out Stabs him (tho the whole film is badly written)...Yeah but Hes still the one needing to apologize or what?
„Adam Driver for Kylo is what Alan Rickman was for Snape!“ YES definetly. Hearing his interviews and how he views the character gives you the Impression HE was the Writer of the Story of his character. Compared to the actual writers themselves
Exactly!!!!
Would explain why his character is the only one with something resembling a story arc.
Yuuuuuup!!
His charisma is why one can't help but be fascinated by Kylo despite all the flaws of the movies.
Aggree
I liked the initial idea of Kylo Ren. A young, Darth Vader wannabe with the power and skill to surpass Vader, but lacking the maturity and control. I figured he'd grow stronger and more able and becomes a true heir to Vader.
Then Hollywood blew it.
That's also an interesting take! Tho I feel that would be a bit comedic if He then was the New Vader. I felt him NOT being a real villain but trying to live in the dark side was interesting and the point of his character. That soon hell realize He doesnt belong on the dark side.
Funny enough the only true heir that Vader/Anakin would recognize is his son Luke.
@@jaieregilmore971 Not that he'd work that out right away.
I just liked the idea of Kylo being a true rival to Rey, growing stronger as she does.
Buuuuuut Abrams stumbled with TFA, Rian's failure with TLJ is an insult to failures and TRoS was going to fail, even if they gave it to a good director.
Not Hollywood, Katherine Kennedy did
@@VlazeSkylax Well, Hollywood didn't help.
Kylo Ren should've been the flawed anti-hero and Rey should've been a secret villain.
I believe in Darth Rey supremacy
@@DavidBaatzsch Facts.
@@DavidBaatzsch Rey-venge of the Siths!
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 oh god🤣
Sith Empress Rey > "Normal" Rey.
Another difference I think it's important to point out, is the relationship between father-daughter of Jinx and Silco, and father-son of Luke and Kylo. As you mentioned, the father-son relationship between Kylo and Luke is basically nonexistent, there's no context added, they could've treated each other like strangers for all we know from the movies.
However in Arcane, Silco loved Jinx like his daughter even in her broken, shattered and unstable form. It was disfunctional, because well, Silco is a villain who wants revenge, and pushed Jinx to a life of unstability. But the show really emphasized how much Silco cared about Jinx. Even in his last moments where I was expecting the typical "I've never loved you, you were a weapon, bla, bla bla", Silco surprised me when he stated how much he loved her, how he would've never sacrificed her, and how perfect she was even in her broken form. He cared so much for Jinx that he brought her back to life. A man whose main philosophy is to care for himself first and only.
I find amazing how much passion was put behind Arcane, that even an animated villain is more human than everyone in the new SW trilogy.
Got to love how the silco is more empathetic with his love for jinx where luke skywalker we the man who saw the good in darth Vader tried to kill his own nephew because he thought he might be evil
@@anarchy4303 I live for the irony.
Luke Skywalker, the man who refused to kill his father (A SITH LORD!) and tried to find good in him after everything bad he had done, trying to kill his nephew (who at that moment wasn't even evil) just in case. VS Silco, a VILLAIN whose main philosophy is "stick to yourself and don't trust nor love anyone", bringing Jinx back to life, refusing to betray her, protecting her even when, due to her actions, his longstanding dream was falling apart, and everyone wanted her head, because he loved her like his daughter.
The writers and directos of SW deserve a hundred Razzies, imo.
@@KM-oy2dw arcane's writing is just so fucking amazing, a lot of the silco jinx thing comes from that fact that he sees himself in her, as he was betrayed in a way by Vander. He wanted to make sure she wouldn't be alone like he was, and wanted to provide the care and love he needed. All the character motivations are just so well throught out and perfect
@@KM-oy2dw I would add to that, Silco, the Villain, got himself surprised of compassion for a litle girl crying in his arms when he was actually about to kill her. He, who lost so much at this instant, got himself a daughter cause he felt her shattering distress and empathized.
How can't you love Arcane ? :D
You say "even in her broken form" as if he'd love powder though. He wouldn't. He shaped her this way, he wants her to be jinx.
Kylo despite his character flaws, was my favorite character of the entire sequel trilogy, even tho his character development was all over the place, it was really more concise then the rest of the sequel characters especially Rey. Could've been a great villian
I just wanna say I liked your comment simply for you writing "Could've" instead of "Could of"
I think most people who like Kylo Ren tend to like the idea of him more than the actual character himself. There is potential for a good character there, it was just executed poorly and saved mainly by the acting.
I only liked him because of Adam Driver
@@EnderHeart5911 yeah true but what was his goal at all because he didn’t had a reason to turn to the dark side.
@@EnderHeart5911 we like the idea of him because his character arc has been done in Star Wars like 2 or 3 other times already. It’s the only thing remotely coherent in the whole trilogy because they’re just copying the story of darth Vader and revan and starkiller and whoever the hell else. Only somehow they manage to screw that up too which is just incredible honestly.
i love how you mimicked the scribble-y style that appears when Jinx is in her thoughts(?)
Yup! You guessed it 👏
@@Nutsa literally looks amazing! You‘re one of my Idols when its about Video editing
I completely agree. This whole trilogy should have capitalised on Luke and Ben's relationship a lot more. This trilogy just had so much potential that was just tossed aside. and thats just sad to see
For real dude. Honestly the first ENTIRE movie should have been about Luke’s Jedi academy and the fall of Ben solo. I also just think that the story would have been better served if Rey was Luke’s kid and he was training her in the academy and if Han and leia had had like one or two more children (like in the books) and the story was about family. You can even keep the finn B plot if you want, and I feel like this way, it actually allows for a lot more development for Finn (even though I completely despise the entire idea of the first order but whatever)
@@Zlittlepenguin Ep 7 actually had an original script, and it was going to go into Luke's Jedi academy and Ben Solo's backstory to his fall to the darkside, to Luke turning his back on everything and then Ben joining the Knights of Ren and becoming Kylo Ren.
It was also going to set up Finn & Rey being force sensitive so they would become Jedi down the line.
All of this was written by JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan.
@@windghost2 even THAT would have been way better.
I do, however just think that Rey, Ben, and like 1 or 2 other kids should have been the main focus. Finn can be force sensitive, but doesn’t have to be, and (if you really need to have the first freakin order in the story 🙄) he should be more of a lens as to how the first order is bad and what they’re doing and/or humanising or relating to the storm troopers. Maybe he has some sort of relationship with a couple of them who have ALSO lost everything and are practically being enslaved and forced to do the bidding of the first order.
I ALSO think - just like every other Star Wars trilogy - the story would have been SO much cooler, and would have justified the addition of the first order SO much better if they added politics to it. Genuinely. They didn’t show the new republic in ANY fashion other than to blow them up and that’s it. And we don’t even care about it because we don’t spend any time with these people. How or why are the first order a thing? What does the new republic think about it? How does their incompetence/naivety/general in-action spark the need for leia to take action and form the resistance?!? How does she form the resistance?! Etc… and if you don’t waste everyone’s time with “who are rey’s parents? Find out in the next movie! Lol it’s no one. see how that plays out in the next movie! Jk it’s Palpetine cause he’s back somehow and now he’s dead. The end!” and just say “hey it’s Luke’s freaking daughter, let’s get on with the story now” then you’d have PLENTY of time to actually tell a story about the sky walkers, the world of Star Wars, and a compelling and grounded story about the people in it.
Not to mention all of this would allow for Luke to actually DO something that isn’t completely idiotic. You could even STILL make him a hermit in the second movie and have the entire “failing” arc that he goes through in the last Jedi. But this way, we could potentially see him BE a grandmaster, all-powerful jedi that we all assumed he’d be before the movies came out. Hell he could even fight whatever ACTUAL big baddie in the first or second movie (ideally the first most likely) and it would be great. Easy fan service that’s actually justified.
It’s just so annoying because this was SO difficult to screw up. I’m not gunna sit here and say my “version” DEFINITELY should have happened. I’m just saying there were a wealth of VERY obvious plot threads to choose from and they went with the most contrived, convoluted, and underwhelming way of going about things. It’s quite literally like cheating on a test but purposefully answering the questions wrong for no damn reason. It’s so frustrating man 🤦🏼♂️
nowadays u just can not have 2 straight white males in center of the trilogy, are u crazy?!
@@Zlittlepenguin I agree man. Also on Rey, I was thinking about the force vision she had in TFA.
See in the original script of the film, instead of Rey finding The Skywalker Lightsaber and having a force vision by herself, Maz Kanata actually shows the lightsaber to Finn and Rey.
When they touch the lightsaber, both of them get a force vision.
So I was thinking that Rey’s force vision is still the same as it was in the final cut of the movie, but with Finn’s force vision this is where we find out important things about what happened before the events of the movie.
I was thinking that through Finn’s force vision, We would see the origins of Ben Solo to his fall to the dark side and Luke’s new Jedi Order at it’s peak. But I was also thinking that through this force vision we’d learn of Luke’s children and we’d learn that he had 2 kids with Mara Jade and it would be revealed that Rey is the long lost daughter of Luke Skywalker and that she had an older brother named Wedge Skywalker.
Wedge was a Jedi Knight and he was helping his dad and several other masters train the next generation of Jedi, Ben was included in this. He started his Jedi training after using his grandfather’s lightsaber to help save Luke in a battle against sith acolytes.
Luke welcomed him with open arms and so did the rest of the Jedi order. He trained and was learning to become an amazing Jedi. He and Wedge had rivalry going on due to both of them being cousins and be competitive.
Also Luke’s Jedi Order in this headcanon/theory of mine is like his Legends Jedi Order
Ben’s turn could start due to the fact that he believed that the empire kept real order in the galaxy. Something that the Republic is struggling to do. He and Wedge had multiple conversations on it which would end with them arguing on what was best for the Galaxy.
Because of that, and due to Ben seeing how the new republic were making some of the same mistakes the old one did, Ben started to become more ruthless, angry and fed up with the way the Jedi did things and that led him down a dark line of thinking.
Wedge saw this and tried to do something about it and so did Luke and Mara, but Ben was falling down a dark path and maybe it could be here that Snoke could be introduced and he could promise to bring true order to the empire.
Ben started his fall to the dark after that and it didn’t help that Luke left the Jedi order to try to see if the rumors of the First Order held any merit. He left Mara as the acting grandmaster till he came back, Ben was getting worse and he wasn’t getting any better.
It got even worse when Wedge had a vision of his cousin killing everyone in the temple and he saw Rey being killed by him too, so he made a plan that he shared with his mother in bringing Rey to Jakku so she would be safe from Kylo’s massacre.
So Rey is saved by her older brother but is tragically left on Jakku for 14 years because of the Jedi massacre.
After Wedge left Rey on Jakku, knowing that it would be the last time he saw her, he went back to the temple to face his death head on.
Ben started killing former friends, masters and fellow Palawan’s and currently he was engaged in a duel with his Aunt Mara and she was losing. He landed a blow that decided the fight and before he could strike her down, Wedge saved his mom and told her to leave while he faced Ben.
Wedge and Ben had one last conversation on the state of the Galaxy and how to bring order to it. Ben offered him to join him in bringing true order to the galaxy, Wedge refused stating that he will always be a Jedi and that he’ll bring peace instead of Order to the Galaxy.
Then they fought for one last time and it was a long battle, they were evenly matched for ever blow and strike was perfectly matched and blocked by the other.
Then Ben landed a fatal blow and held his cousin as he was dying, he told that he was sorry things had come to this and that he should’ve joined him. Wedge replied that even though the order was gone once again, Ben would be stopped by new Jedi in the future trained by his uncle. Ben replied they would fall to his blade all the same, before killing him. Then Ben left to go to where the Knights of Ren where to join them. At the same time Luke came back to his temple and was walking over the bodies of his students and then he found the bodies of his son and wife. Mara was dead once Ben landed that blow on her and she used the last of her strength to crawl over to Wedge and hold him as she died.
Luke found them like that. And he was so heartbroken that he just walked away from and he told R2 that he wasn’t coming back. That caused R2 to shut down and he’s been like that in the resistance base since then.
The vision ends with Ben joining the Knights of Ren and him forging his crossguard lightsaber and becoming Kylo Ren.
Then after both Finn and Rey have their respective vision. Rey get repelled by the lightsaber and runs away and Finn stays behind.
Now Luke having kids with Mara Jade, Rey being a Skywalker by blood and that whole backstory of Ben and the peak of the Jedi order was my little head canon based off of the original script written for TFA.
But imagine how much better it would’ve made Rey and it would’ve made those Mary Sue arguments obsolete since she’s a Skywalker too.
Never expected a comparison between the infamous Star Wars sequels and the masterpiece that is Arcane. Great analysis, keep it up.
Yeah. Made me actually want to go take a look at Arcane and see for myself whether it really was as good as people said.
Spoiler: It was.
I like it that you mentioned Arcane, haven't seen it, but this is how you do a sad villain's origin story.
Even without the Prequels, it isn't too hard to find he was corrupted and manipulated and we can empathize with it a little.
With Anakin/Vader, even if the Prequels weren't great, he had understandable reasons to become selfish, untrusting, and unstable. He made bad decisions, refused guidance out of pride that "I'm the chosen one, I'll be powerful enough to ___", and suffered for it.
Arcane is quite frankly, everything hollywood has lost, every character feels alive and human, the music is on point. Well worth the watch.
Pardon my interpretation and terrible memory, could you explain to me that the Jedi did try to help him? Because I don't remember a single scene where whenever he did ask them for help they offered helpful advice or didn't treat him like an absolute punching bag despite the fact he was the "chosen one". As a matter of fact, I believe that they only use the "chosen one" line whenever they need to put Anakin in his place rather than to revere him, which honestly is like poetry, it rhymes in the most ironic sense. Especially Mace Windu, who exemplified everything wrong with the Jedi order in the first place. He was strong with the force, used his self-righteousness as a way to justify his ego and stoicism which are always a dangerous combination, talk to Plo Koon if you want to see a Jedi who's self-righteous stoicism fueled his humble culture in his response to the clones line of "Why are you so concerned about our safety, sir? We are clones, we are meant to be expendable", which was "Not to me.". That is commonly agreed upon to be the most Jedi thing a Jedi should say. And then there is how Mace Windu told Anakin to "take a seat", imagine that, the one who will bring balance to the force is being treated as though he nothing more than a new Padawan. And he didn't once use his "Chosen One" status in the entire film unless he is talking to Padme about how unfair these expectations are of him as a *Jedi*.
I do not think he once bought wholesale the whole "chosen one" business, he just did it because that is what his supposed "father figure" Obi-Wan Kenobi expected of him and what he was on the council for, he just asked to be a Jedi master that meeting because he doesn't understand why he gets to be on the Jedi Council and not carry the title to say that he is on the council. It's like being a part of a high-ranking community in everything but name, which basically means that you would have to be invited to the meetings because if you start up a meeting yourself the other superiors will say "but you don't have the permission to do that". You can still speak as one, you can still give suggestions, you just won't be as respected because you aren't a leader, your a trooper being put on a leadership council. That is what upsets him, he's basically a junior in a room full of seniors. And how Mace Windu treats him is practically the defining moment of how this problem would be the norm, if he asks for something like to veto a vote to go attack and investigate a separatist planet, he will most likely be ignored completely. His veto can be nulled and void, his voice can be removed at any moment, his every decision can be critized without him being able to say a single thing back because he isn't a Jedi Master and no one else agrees with him. He would literally have to convince the other Jedi Masters to support him to have him have even a inkling of a chance to be acknowledged, and yet there is always Mace Windu and Master Yoda to talk him down.
And the worst part about this is, he fought *for* the Jedi. He was in the Clone Wars, he bended the rules a lot throughout them and he oftentimes took questionable decisions but overall, he was an integral part of the war. Heck, a majority of the wars might've been lost or drawn out too long and a good amount of good people like Padme and Plo Koon might've died if not for his recklessness, heck, if it weren't for him, Ahsoka would've probably taken his place as Vader or been as bad as the rest of the Jedi Masters and continued their stagnation if it wasn't for how he taught her to be more patient, wait for the opponent to show their weakness or to take advantage of what they say or do, and to always do what's right, no matter if some Council or Senate wants you to be in a certain place at a certain time. Overall, Anakin did everything that was necessary of him as a Jedi and yet, from his perspective, it isn't enough to get the respect that other typical Jedi get.
Which is what led him to go deeper and deeper into the darkside and what made it so easy for Palpatine to manipulate him. He just never felt as though he was respected in his opinions, in just who he was as a Jedi. He interpreted every single time Obi-Wan makes his smart remarks at him over how he tries to be a Jedi to be condescending, he viewed Mace Windu as an enemy, and he disliked how the council shafted him over as an errand boy by the Jedi. And yet, despite Palpatine basically doing the same thing to him but just disguising it as a noble honor to give him the opportunity to prove his change into Vader to him when he sent him to track down the Jedi and to slaughter everyone in the Jedi Temple, even the little younglings which according to one comic he basically justified in his mind as being mercy from both Palpatine and their path towards becoming Jedi, which I forgot why though I do know where I got this source. A Geetsly video that's basically titled "Why Anakin was more Vader-like after he killed the Separatists".
Anyway, I am most certainly not defending his decisions, if I had the time to write out a script arguing how he should've just sold Palpatine out and then left the Jedi Temple with Padme instead of going through with the slaughter and ending the age of the Jedi, the age of where really and honestly anyone could ever have any hope of feeling safe from the police. He basically doomed the entire galaxy to tyranny under a Sith Lord and the rest of the Republic-now-turned-Empire Military Men. And I will never stand for that. I am not defending Vaders actions as a Sith, I am trying to detail out how Anakin's fall was so easy to be corrupted and that he did ask for help where none was. Or at least, none that was helpful. Just remember the advice that Yoda gave him in regards to worrying about Padme dying, to just not worry about about it and instead be glad over the fact that despite her time was going to end, new life would grow from her death supplying the force. That was honestly a selfish response from Yoda, instead at the bare minimum he could've offered his apologies and to give him advice to spend the last days with her being happy because that is what she would've wanted him to be and even let him take time off his Jedi duties because clearly he isn't emotionally capable of carrying them out in a Jedi-like manner, he could've even helped him to better interpret those dreams to give him a picture of who would kill her, who could kill her. And if he didn't do that, then Anakin should've ran as far away from the Jedi as possible, maybe take Padme on a little "diplomatic mission" to Ahsoka and check up with how she is, and then continue running with the headstart he's given himself while explaining to both of them everything, since he himself knows he can trust them both. That would've fit his character and been the right choice for him to take. Honestly, Padme herself should've taught him to learn to know which fights he can win and which ones he's just got to get away from.
Anyway, all I've got left to say is that this is all just my opinion, and probably not facts. So, you can just go on to check what I've said and that you can disagree with my interpretation.
@@ragnarian Hmm, maybe I'll give some clips a shot here and there cause it doesn't look like it's not over violent and adult. And I honestly can't handle those types of films, they're just my kryptonite.
Honestly I love the prequels and they really give anakin character
@@StoryTeller796 The Lucasfilm story group should take notes from you. Someone who understands way Anakin fell. These days they seem to only look the the surface and say it was because of attachments and that he just cared too much about other that case him to fall but leaving every other factor that contributed to his turned to the Darkside.
Kylo wears a mask just to be mysterious, except he takes it off at every opportunity. Even Snoke knew how pretentious the helmet was and demanded him to take it off.
On the flip side, Darth Vader wears the helmet and the rest of his uniform because he has it to keep him alive. I believe it was Obi Wan who once said he was more machine than man. This made all of us wonder just how much of Anakin is there left inside those mechanisms?
Vader was never seen without his helmet. In three whole movies, audience got to see one short shot of Vader without his helmet, but it was just the back of his discolored head. He appeared grey, like the color of a corpse. That was until near the end of Return Of The Jedi, after he had turned to the light side of the force, that Luke took off his helmet with Vader actually telling him to so he could finally see his son with his real eyes.
That was the first time anyone saw Anakin Skywalker in the flesh. We still never found out how much of him was machine, but we could see his face for the first time. This is one reason that Kylo Ren didn’t have the same mysterious presence of Darth Vader.
…We know now…thanks Disney…another think I didn’t really wanted to know 🤦♀️
@@SakiBlablabla Yes, it was much better not knowing. The most frightening thing in any horror film is often the monster you can’t see. Our imaginations are typically more terrifying than any special effects can deliver.
That's something I hate in fiction when they take off their helmet at every opportunity even in a dangerous area
Kylo's design (and writing) kinda makes me suspect that he was intended as a "Revan-Type" character, rather than a repeat of Vader. Even his flip-flopping between Light and Dark is very Revan-esque in concept (albeit a poor imitation).
That could honestly have been interesting... Unfortunately, for that to work, it would've required writers with actual talent and a cohesive plan for the entirety of the sequel trilogy.
Someone explained it as him hiding himself because he didn’t feel evil enough. Seeing how obvious his emotions are on his face makes this kind of make sense. Hard to strike fear when you haven’t got a poker face. Having Adam driver not use his face to act would have been a travesty though. But as is said here the reasons are never fleshed out so it’s up to the viewer to make it all make sense.
While I absolutely agree Kylo ren was the most interesting character in the sequel trilogy, at the same time, I'm afraid Luke's characterisation here seemed more mean spirited on the part of the writers, just an excuse to break down an iconic male character, like showing Han becoming separated from Leya and going back to smuggling.
its not just Luke's attempted moment of child murder, but the fact that his response to this was sit around and let the first order take over the galaxy without raising a finger, then when he finally meets Kylo, there is no compassion, no attempt at redemption on his part.
The idea of Luke failing Kylo ren is a good one in principle, but the failing would have to match the Luke we know, albeit an older luke.
For example, supposed Luke failed to save Kylo ren from a dangerous training situation he got into, or suppose the temple caught on fire and Luke, having seen dark side potential in Kylo Ren, blamed him for it when it wasn't his fault, ---- not tried to kill him, merely washed his hands of responsability for him and told him to leave and find his own path since Luke plainly couldn't teach him.
Luke was always defined by his compassion, and there was none if this in his treatment of Kylo, which I'm afraid I'm fairly certain was entirely purposeful on the part of Lucas films, since it is against their religion to show a male exhibiting any virtue but goofy humour and subservience and admiration of powerful female characters, as happened with both Fin and Po.
Of course the writing was mean spirited, half the people at Lucasfilm spend all day ranting on social media about Luke being the face of the evil "white saviors".
I still cannot believe that their idea was to have the son of Anakin Skywalker not realize the danger of acting rashly upon Force visions. They had him attempt to murder a child in cold blood because he had a vision the child would become evil- just like Anakin murdered untold innocents in an attempt to gain the power to save Padme from a fate his own actions eventually condemned her to.
And Luke just said "oh hey he's gonna be evil? Should I maybe try to watch over him, offer a guiding hand to prevent him falling to the dark side? Nah, kill him in his sleep."
@@gdreaper8771 tlj was beautiful VISUALLY but goddamn the writing was actual ass
I don't know, feels more realistic for our heroes to have their faults & flaws. It'd be too saccharine & unrelatable otherwise. Plus, Han & Leia were always going to struggle due to how fiercely independent they both are - neither could compromise on their life goals.
You want saccharine, flawwless and unrelatable? Take a look at Rey.
Han and Leia I utterly disagree on, since they show a clear development in their relationship in the three films. The bickering Han and Leia of a new hope certainly weren't a steady couple, but the Han who was prepared (if rather grumpily), to stand aside and not get in Leia's way with Luke (as he thought), in empire, and the Leia who mounted a rescue mission to Jaba's palace to save him were not the same couple at all.
Again, there's no reason old characters don't have flaws or can't struggle, or can't learn from the new generation.
Look at the relation between Luke and Obi wan in the series.
Obi wan starts as the flawlesss mentor, gives up his life when he believes Vader's defeat is certain, then continues to guide Luke.
However, once Luke disagrees and impulsively rushes off to confront Vader, Obi Wan cannot interfere, indeed in the end, Yoda and Obi wan were shown to be wrong about the possibility of good in Vader, for all their wisdom and training.
Rey however learns nothing from Luke, Luke is shown as nothing but a weak, broken old man, and indeed needs a telling off from Yoda himself.
Even Luke's sacrifice felt more like cowardice, giving up on Kylo ren in a way totally at odds with his previous character.
So while I agree in principle that yes, characters need flaws, the way the sequel trilogy tried to create them, and who they gave them to was at best a severely mistaken course in writing, at worst, an active attempt to undermine the past heroes (especially the past male heroes), in an effort to make the current heroes, well to be honest just Rey, look overpowered and, and perfect.
Kylo Ren redemption could have only worked IF They kept him alive and well, with the last minutes of the film trying to fix his mistakes or helping rebuild a new jedi order that isnt as dogmatic as the first one.
Or better yet, have Rey being the one who dies, kylo changes due to this event, and tries to be better in honor of her memory.
Sure, not perfect on any cases, but its something more than a lightsaber delivery boy
true. I'm so fed up with the "redemption means death" trope. Redemption takes more than a brief moment of shifting heart. Actually acting for years on your new commitments is what is admirable and actually allows you to repair what you've done. (With some exceptions of course. Vader was long-broken and barely alive, and nobody would have trusted him to bring change, so peace was a fine end.)
imagine trying to do a redemption arc
a martyr ending
AND enemies to lovers with a single character
in the span of a single movie,
with barely any set up whatsoever
I think it would've been better without the redemption, honestly - If instead of "somehow Palpatine has returned" Kylo had taken the mantle of "Big Bad Guy" for the final movie, and found his stride as a proper villain, able to put his insecurities to rest and be completely ruthless and unapologetically evil.
Rey, who up to that point had developed a sort of "relationship" with Kylo, thinking she could "redeem" him, would then be faced with the unfortunate reality that things "hadn't turned out the way she thought" - as Luke had warned her, and perhaps her vain attempt to redeem Kylo was actually what finally gave him the confidence and self-assuredness to usurp Snoke.
I really liked Kylo despite his lack of background, but like you mentioned: context is everything. When PROFESSIONAL WRITERS opt to tell and not show (and even then only give the bare minimum if that) relating to a characters past, you get characters like Kylo who suffer because of it. Just telling the audience of a tragic backstory and showing key breaking points without giving reasons as to why they happen robs them of the context and even empathy.
People make fun of the whole tragic backstory trope but it legitimately works when done right. Understanding why a character, who in some cases can be a fallen hero, snapped and just how they got there can be incredibly intriguing and human. You can’t slap on the shallow tragedy and expect people to care. You need to give them a reason TO care. Even if they don’t agree with the path said character has chosen, seeing the reasons why the act they way the do helps us understand their actions. You can like a character who isn’t a likeable person because of how they choose to deal (or ignore) their issues.
When you pointed out that Kylo should’ve been the main character I’d actually never thought if that before, I always thought it should be Finn. Imagine if we had an Anakin-like arc that started with young Ben being pulled to the Dark Side and becoming pushed away by his family and master because of it. He’d be so conflicted in the second movie and and eventually choose the Light Side by the end, fitting the title The Rise of Skywalker. That would’ve been so cool! Adam’s performance was great, but having a gripping new story with much-needed context would have really let him shine. I know that comics exist to fill in the gaps, but a good movie should be the full package and not rely on outside material. The issue of not being self-contained was one of the many faults of the Sequels, amongst, you know, other things.
What you said about Luke trying to kill Kylo in reference to their relationship’s context really made me think. Great vid Nutsa, I appreciate your work.
- Starc0unter Video Essays
There's "professional", meaning getting paid, as which the writers of the sequel trilogy certainly qualify, and then there's professional, meeting treating one's vocation as a serious profession, by which metric the writers of the sequel trilogy were rank amateurs.
I think the lack of focus when it comes to Luke and Ben’s relationship is that JJ wasn’t interested in exploring it. If you look at TFA and TROS, he seemed far more interested in Ben’s relationship with his father, Han Solo, than his relationship with any other character. This isn’t just exclusive to Luke either. Look at how unsatisfying the kiss between Rey and Ben is in TROS compared to their hand touch in TLJ, or the scenes between Hux and Kylo in TLJ compared to their scenes together in TFA or TROS. It’s clear that Rian mapped out the relationships between characters for TLJ and attempted to give each one their time in the sun. Whether you think the writing of those relationships is good is another thing, but at least Rian explored the dynamics between characters in a more organic way than JJ and Chris did in TROS.
Luke and Han definitely shouldn't have been killed when and the way they were.
"With a little more thought [x] could've been great" is probably the most accurate way to sum up the entire Sequel trilogy
Kind of applies to most writing, honestly. When it comes to storytelling genuinely bad ideas are pretty rare - What matters is how well the story is told.
I didn't realize how badly Kylo Ren's redemption arc (really most redemption arcs) was handled until after I saw Arcane. Powder/Jinx is a character whom I desperately want to see redeemed, even though I'm not entirely sure she can be anymore, and I can't remember the last time I felt that way about a villain.
i wanted to ben to survive so badly, the history of his fate trying to rebuild the jedi order and being a fugitive of the republic would been so cool
Captain Jack Sparrow is Disney's most complex character and I'm sure it was 90% driven by Johnny Depp himself.
I agree with most of your points. One Main Problem is also that the Marketing weren't on Kylo's side either. They ALL but Promoted the Vader 2.0 So people were left surprised that He was way more than a Second Darth Vader. I wonder why Rey's relationship to him isn't mentioned at all. A Romance between the protagonist & the villain can also create sympathy to the villain. Tho Kylo gained sympathy through Adams acting rather
Yup. Ever since that kiss, LF hardly mentions their romance save for the occasional small reference. They try to describe their relationship as diplomatically as possibly, which sucks. They bring up an idea, only to not fully commit to it. That can be why some people aren't invested as much in it.
@@blondetapperware8289 Because JJ just threw it in to shut the teenage fans up, lol.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 that would suck, but I can believe that putting it in to please some fans is the case
How was he not a second Vader? He's literally just a lazy rehash of the guy. Corrupted by Palpatine, turns evil, wears a mask, changes his name, serves of #2 for the Empire, obsesses over turning the hero evil and killing his former master, then redeems himself (on the second death star no less) and dies saving the hero from Palpatine in a throne room showdown.
He's literally the laziest rip off of Vader you could be.
@@ergob3907 Which is funny, as JJ said Lucas ruined Vader the moment Luke was revealed to be his son, and he hated the redemption as Vader was no longer a big bad.
adam driver is the reason why kylo ren is the most compelling character in the sequels. he understood the assignment more than the teachers who made the fcukng assignment. 🙄 the amount of effort he put into the character is more than what they deserve from all the BS.
This is the video that made me aware that Arcane was more than "just another video game show" and made me actually go watch it. I literally paused the video a bit into Part 2 to binge all of Arcane in a single day. I was so blown away by it, that I forgot this video existed (sorry) and only came back to finish watching the rest and comment on it now (several months later).
I mean I always felt bad for the character but I guess that was because it was wasted potential in a world where he had to play second fiddle to a diverse main character. He honestly could have been so great. AND YES Adam Driver is who convinced me to think that. Not Kylo Ren the character, but Adam Driver the actor (with hopeless scripts and a hopeless role and he still delivers at least some good acting). Also a seperate Arcane video? Yes please count me in
One of the things I liked about Ren in Force Awakens was due to Yoda´s old line. "Fear leads to Anger, anger to Hatred, hatred to Suffering." When Ren destroyed the console in an outburst, my reaction was, "oh, he´s still in the Anger phase, I guess."
With Jynx, I didn´t need to guess. Perfection.
I used to be tentatively optimistic about Kylo Ren... during the first movie, that is. During those times when silly hopeful me still had some kind of hope than in the subsequent two movies would flesh out more the characters, the motivations, the story and basically: deliver a good and compelling Star Wars story overall. "Yeah, Force Awakens had it's flaws, but there's still two movies to come: I'm SURE they will use that time well!"
Silly, silly innocent past me.
Honestly this channel is a breath of fresh air from the other Channels who rant about the sequels
Very nice for the people who acknowledge that they were very flawed movies but still have affection for the characters
Kylo Ren/Ben Solo deserved so much better! Especially Setting up his redemption and then ignoring it when the BIG MOMENT the Trilogy Set you up happens. You explained this problem Very well!!
I feel like Nebula from guardians of the galaxy is another example of it done better
When I first heard that the movie was called The Rise of Skywalker, I thought it would center on Kylo's redemption or Luke returning to help like he had at the end of TLJ. Because both of them are Skywalkers. I would much rather have followed Kylo Ren as the protagonist than Rey. If they had kept the entire trilogy focused on Kylo Ren, it would have been much more interesting. And it could turn the repetitiveness of the Star Wars franchise into something deep.
It always seemed to me that Kylo's desire was to be loved. From what we are shown in the movies, he had a better relationship with Leia (a force user) than with Han (a non-force user). This set a pattern off of which he based all human interaction. His differing relationships with his parents creates a link in Ben's brain between the Force and familial love because the same person who loved him was a force user. This is reinforced when he is sent to train under Luke. And perhaps there is the added layer of "If I do well in the force, then people will love me". When Luke fails him, he turns to Snoke, because the sith are his only option. Strong force user = someone who cares, but he no longer trusts jedi. With this change comes his idealization of Vader. He wants to become strong in the Force as a way to prove his self-worth, and he thinks that Vader achieved this, thus Vader is his role model. He is also the only member of Kylo's family who has not turned on him -- because he died before Kylo was born. How heartbreaking, that this character is so hungry for connection and appreciation that he turns to dead men when he cannot find what he needs among the living.
When he meets Rey, he wants a relationship with her, romantic or not, because of that desire. In the very least, he wants her as a coworker.
When Han returns, bitterness drives Kylo to kill him. And when he is pressed to do the same thing to Leia, he cannot. He meets Luke again and lashes out, resulting in Luke's death. Through these three interactions, Kylo slowly realizes that even though his family misunderstood and feared him, they still loved him, and he loved them too. Yet instead of achieving his goal of being loved and appreciated, the dark side has made him kill or alienate anyone who could potentially do so. Again, this is reinforced by Rey's decision not to rule the galaxy with him. She will not accept him because he is a sith.
[If you've made it this far, you're a beautiful human being and I love you for being able to read my ramblings.]
Logically, what should have happened after this is Kylo flees and seeks a third option. But that's not what we got. And if they wanted to make the sequels a love letter to the originals, they could have done it in a more clever way. One of the themes of the trilogy could have been about reliving the same mistakes of the last generation. Instead of people being like "Oh, there's a bigger death star to blow up, nice, let's do that!" they could have had the attitude, "Again? Why are we living through the same horrid nightmare again? What have we done wrong? Will we never get it right? Why does life feel like some fever dream?"
Leia and Han mishandled the Ben situation because they could only see another Vader. I would say that Luke mishandled the situation because of the opposite view -- his optimism and absolute faith in the goodness of humanity blinded him to the fact that his nephew could turn to the dark side. So rather than help Ben face the dark parts of himself, he pretended that they didn't exist. The only logical conclusion that I can take away from the mess that is TLJ is that Luke must have had some interaction with Kylo where Kylo displayed dark side abilities, which scared Luke into thinking irrationally. (I hate that Luke was willing to kill his own nephew. I hate it. That's not Luke. But I'll try to make sense of it). It would have made more sense if we had a point where this was shown. Maybe instead of reminding him of Vader, Kylo reminded Luke of himself. Every religious man struggles with his own temptations from time to time, and I wouldn't be surprised if Luke was still tempted by the dark side. According to the light side philosophy, the best way to deal with feelings is to let them die (which is not emotionally healthy in any way, but fine). Luke sees Kylo as a walking manifestation of his own temptations and weaknesses, thus his impulse is to kill him. I don't think he would go as far as attempting it, but that could be his knee-jerk reaction.
Everyone in this trilogy is haunted, once way or another, by past actions, of themselves or of others. With all this as the groundwork, it could have been a brilliant story about connection, reconciling past mistakes, and the question of whether or not to have faith in something or someone who could let you down (ie, the jedi order. After the prequels and the sequels, who trusts them at this point?) The jedi bleach themselves of all emotion that could cause harm -- which is flawed, because we have anger, hatred, and passion for a reason. They can frequently be negative, but they can also be positive. The sith keep their emotions bottled up and allow them to fester, giving them power. What if Kylo found a middle ground where one was allowed to feel a full range of emotion, but keep a balanced level of each? In my mind, that would be the fulfillment of the prophecy about Anakin -- think about it. He abolished both the jedi order and the sith order. To find a balance between the two, one must reject both. He tore the old structure down, but Kylo is a second fulfillment of the prophecy because he builds something new in it's place. An order that takes the healthiest aspects of the light and dark sides and combines them into one. All the pieces were there. I'm a sixteen year old in an arm chair and I made this up in the past half hour. DISNEY! WHY?????
Also, to anyone reading this now, a thousand blessings on you and your household. 🥰😘👏
The thing I thought of during this film is that it would have been probably good to have some dialogue for Kylo like "I want more, but I know I shouldn't." Which, since it is prequel dialogue, is exactly why Abrams didn't want it on his Star Wars.
Great video! Definitely kept me thinking. I also appreciate the memes and edits in this one!
Bruh? You put Archane and Star Wars sequels in the thumbnail? This is gonna be dope!
Kyle Ren is basically two things.
One. He is Darth Vader in Episode IV, if you had never seen episode IV or indeed any of the OT and were describing him to someone that had also never seen the OT. He is what Vice would describe Vader as.
Tall. Angry. Kills people. Dark armour. Deep voice. Wears a mask and a cape.
But completely missed the bits that actually makes (or made, since Kenobi is now a thing) Vader the single greatest villain in all of film. Calculating, deliberate, efficient, implacable, ruthless, enigmatic.
Two. He suffers from what I call 'The Raiden Effect'. Remember Raiden from Metal Gear Solid? Yeah, him. When he was introduced at the start of the main storyline in Sons of Liberty, and everyone thought 'Hang on, that's not Snakes voice!?' And then 'ok, well this looks like an interesting start, hopefully he's just as cool as Snake.'
Remember how long that thought lasted? I do. It lasted until roughly 5 minutes in when he takes his fucking mask off and this whiney blonde haired man-girl emo appeared and the mystique instantly evaporated.
I've never got over that. And the same thing happened in the cinema with Ren.
'Oh wow, he's just stopped a goddamn blaster bolt in mid-flight and he tortures people. This sounds like a real terrifying antago...wow, mate, what are you doing? No, don't take the mask off...stop, dude, not yet...at least wait til the second movie...what the fuck, he looks like he's gonna start self harming any second now.
This video was insanely well made and I cant even start to think about how much time went into the editing, script and overall thought behind.
This is not another video that just hates on the sequels, this is an in dept video made by a worried fan who expected a lot more made out of the history and memories of Star Wars. Which was and is an important memory of times of quality and passion.
Great video.
Very well done. The juxtaposition of Arcane with the sequel trilogy was just *chef’s kiss*. I hope that Hollywood’s audience pandering in place of thoughtful writing can end. But it’s been years now…
Since I'm trying to build a broken character myself, this video has been helpful on teaching me MOAR about the subject.
You know what you have to do, but do you have the strength to do it?
@@blondetapperware8289 Jokes apart, I'm 5000-10000 words away from finishing my book. Fingers crossed! :-D
@@VisiblyPinkUnicorn Wow! As a writer, congrats
You're right, he was the best character of that dumpster fire. The actor made him as likable as he was, but he can only do so much. Without direction or decent writing, it turned a potentially good character into a joke. And after TLJ, I was done with Star Wars. I didn't even watch the final movie. And until Disney takes their movie writing seriously, I'm pretty much done with Star Wars and Marvel, for that matter.
So I don‘t usually comment on videos but I just wanted to say that I have been binge-watching your videos lately and I am truly intrigued by your thoughts and opinions on such polarising matters. The sincerity that you display particularly also in this video is one of the reasons why I truly enjoy watching you content. The way you talk about and approach your topics and the amount of effort you put into making these videos is immensely impressive and inspiring. You also really sparked my interest in Arcane. I never quite got myself round to watching it but now I’m definitely going to. I‘d like to thank you for your work and your time you spend sharing you thoughts and passion with us.
Also I really like your humor :)
I actually got really emotional with the comparisons to Jinx. Man what great writing Arcane was.
I would have bought Luke's change if they had set it up, explained it, laid the groundwork, earned it.
The people who understood Kyle Ren From the first violent episode; are most likely people who grew up in very abusive and violent households. When you experience CPTSD on a daily occurrence, it’s very easy to identify.
I didn’t need to have it blatantly showcased to understand. As someone whose mother left him on a street corner and father who beat him and emotionally abused him. Kylo exhibits early stage ptsd. They actually make his redemption arc move much quicker than is what’s realistic. What is real; is Adam Drivers portrayal of the shame rage.
the sequels should’ve been the story of luke and ben, with the first movie showing ben’s downfall, the second introducing rey and finn and also giving more backstory to his relationship with his parents, and the third movie bringing everything together and giving ren a conclusion to his conflicted mind
Quite amazing how the sequels are slowing turning into a textbook about bad writting and how to avoid it
Yea Arcane is my favorite series & i hope it remains such after Season 2
The reason vader worked so well is partially because we got to see his villainous actions and then later his redemption in the OT, and then later his fall from grace in the prequels, kylo is usually treated as a joke
All they had to do, was create a few flashbacks of accidents involving kylo, and add in a touch of snoke as he was established(not really but) as a growing threat and was manipulating kylo. But we as an audience r shown nothing but as u said, a moment without context
This essay has given me hope that maybe with expanded tv shows the sequel trilogy could be revitalized with needed context similar to how the clones wars tv show saved the prequels.
Excellent, informative video. I always felt like kylo's character lacked a lot of context but laser swords go woosh so I passed it off as Boba Fett bait (cool suit + demeanor = intentional fan favorite)
Yo epic video drop! Will listen to this later! But I always am excited for your videos because I get to actually think. Two things I looks forward to for a Nutsa vid. "Sooo" and then that my brain has to turn on to process intellectual discussion.
I love Arcane so much and hate the Sequels so bad.
I'm looking forward to see what you have to say.
I am constantly blown away with the level of writing and editing in these videos, what a profound and interesting comparison.
Once again, we see Arcane succeed with its character development, where other stories have failed. I've never played League of Legends, but Arcane is one of favorite shows.
Magnificent video! I love the humor with which you presented this.
Vader's story was already far more tragic then anything the Sequel writers could have created and even if they would good, how could you top the story of a "slave who set out to make the world a better place and protect his loved ones, loses every last one of them because those who should have been guiding him were too busy neglecting him and telling and making it very clear to him he is unwanted and a menace and always telling him righting the wrongs of the world is not his job and then, proceed to tell him to cut off all attachments to his loved ones and leave them to ther fate, and finally, only finding the guiding parental figure and acceptance in a evil guy who manipulated and tempted him by playing to everything he ever wanted, only to lose the final ties to his humanity in losing his wife and children because he was led to believe he killed them all."
I mean, really.
How cool would it have been to get a backstory to Kylo. Young ben going through his Jedi training, learning to pilot starships and showing his sky walker side
The funniest thing for me is that Kylo and Rey are very clearly inspired by the Extended Universe books. Like they had all the framework they needed and enough lore to sell a compelling character arc and then went "welp, we tried" and hobbled together a half-baked character arc
I can see Kylo being Jacen Solo's knockoff but who was Rey inspired by?
I absolutely LOVE the edits to this video. The Jinx-like scribbles of Vader, the warped voices Kylo could be hearing in his head the way Jinx hears voices... ah, the wasted potential. I absolutely fell in love with the potential of Kylo, to the point that even considering the absolute face slap that was TROS, he's still tied for my favorite character ever alongside Jinx. Maybe one day someone can do an Arcane-style series focused on how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren (and if we're REALLY lucky, maybe a second season of this show would fix the events of the sequel trilogy)
She's BACK!!!!
You popped up on my home screen, thank TH-cam for the algorithm, because you just got another subscriber 🤙🏽
The piece you are missing to Kylo/Hans relationship is the deep wound of an abandoned child. If Han/Leia had kept Ben and raised him instead of shipping him off to Luke, a single man who never prioritized having his own family, then Ben would never have gone off the deep end. Another option would have been for Luke and Leia/Han should have raised him together as a whole family unit. This is where the Skywalker family have a "neglected/abondoned child" generational curse. Luke and Leia didn't suffer it because Obi-wan placed them in healthy families.
For some reason when i watched Kylo breaking stuff with his sword i felt deeply understandable for him, because this is what i want to do constantly in my mental breakdowns.
Also when he was punching his wound, because I do this all the time too.
This was a great analysis I 100% agree. If we got some more flashbacks with Luke and Kylo it would have made us understand Kylo more. It would also help us empathize with Luke’s decision to be a depressed hermit. Especially if Luke and Kylo’s relationship was strong until that tragic night.
Wow just imagine if Kylo Ren was trained by the real Luke skywalker, it would’ve been a perfect master for him.
Extremely good Video, Love your Editing as well
Just wanna say I LOVE the chapter transitions. The visual style and sound design make for a really nice audio/visual treat. Top tier editing.
I just found your channel this morning and was bingeing it and then BOOM new video yesss!!! I love your editing style! *clicks Subscribe*
I hear that "What could have been" instrumental in the background during the "The Last Jedi" segment, and I see what you did there.
Fucking beautiful.
Great breakdown 👌🏻 Also, kudos on the editing, really fantastic.
"What could have ben" is an interesting Song. The title kinda fits to the Sequels
I agree. Kylo was probably my favorite part of the whole train wreck sequel trilogy because of that missed potential they could have given him. They took some inspiration from the EU Bloodlines series, but they don't understand the character at all! Heck, fanfic can probably give him a consistent arc compared to the flip flop of the sequels.
Luke never gave up on family and friends regardless of whether they were blood or found. He didn't give up on Vader despite being egged on by the MOST EVIL MAN IN THE GALAXY.. but somehow he gave up on his innocent nephew because of a vision, which he as Jedi Master, knows aren't set in stone. I'll NEVER be able to move past that. Luke losing his way as a Jedi is a PROFOUND AND INTERESTING idea, and honestly the only spot left to go after the OT and learning what he could about the Clone Wars, his loss of religion but not of faith is VERY interesting. But he'd never EVER consider killing an innocent man, in sleep, in a fight, or otherwise. That. Is. Not. Luke.
haven't even started watching and I feel like you deserve way more than likes and views with that kind of animation, drawings and editing
edit: really well put out, thanks for your effort :)
btw at 20:15 you missed a massive chance to mention Sabine ngl
I dont usually comment but the absolute chad move of putting ABBA's Mama Mia before part 4 broke me
10/10 video btw love everything so far
I still really like your style of editing.
I can't remember which of the solo kids went Dark side in the books but he at least had a good reason, there needed to be a sequence of events to usher in a golden age that would last I think it was 10,000 years for the galaxy, unfortunately that sequence needed a sith lord/dark jedi to lead the imperial remnants. In the films "my uncle though I was going to turn evil and in a moment of weakness stood over me with a lightsaber but I escaped and now I'm going to show him by... turning to the dark side?" because after all the most powerfull jedi alive who already has his weapon out can't possibly end a single sleeping/scared padiwan before he escapes a planet.
Jacen Solo aka Darth Caedus
Thx for uploading today it always makes my day :))))
God, why is the editing with the glitch type stuff so god damn good 🤩
Your editing is sooo good!
P.S. Amazing video and analysis
I actually liked the introduction of Kylo. We all had insane expectations what character we get and how he will live up to Darth Vader, and so we got a character which struggles to be like him. We feel decieved when he takes of his helmet and we see the boy for real. Its a fassade he puts on to mimic the power of that thing we all wanted to see. I think at least the concept deserves praise.
It is sad to see how Disney completely butchered Kylo Ren and the trilogy in general
I really love your choice of metaphors
Thanks for exploring Ben Solo more! He is one of, if not my favorite SW characters. I do agree that the audience seeing more more of his background actually play out on screen would have helped in them being able to understand how the character and his behavior is motivated; however, you state that they are given no objective truth when it comes to what happened the night Luke went to him. The whole reason we are shown the same scene a third time in TLJ is to in fact show us the honest truth about what happened, without the influence of bias like in the last two versions.
Either way, it sucks that TROS treated him, their other main character, the way they did. He didn't significantly receive as much screentime in comparison to the resistance gang and when he is redeemed, we get a near dialogue-less ten or twelve minutes with him.
Why did they even need to kill him at all? The story would have been so much more interesting with him surviving. We could've seen how the Resistance would react to former Supreme Leader of the FO turned good. We could have seen him possibly try to now figure out how to stone for all the damage he caused. And we also could have seen how he worked with Rey, the other half of the new dyad concept the film makes a point of being so important. But no. Bye bye Ben. You have done a good deed. We have no possible reason to look at you anymore.
To be blunt about it, Kylo Ren obviously struck out to me as the archetype of a School Shooter. It's a dark character type, but a new direction for the villain and one that is relevant to the public consciousness. But they didn't want to lean into something that controversial or be competent in their handling of anything but especially of such a sensitive manner.
I think the only character that they really didn’t ruin in the sequels is Poe
Not from lack of trying. He was somehow still a good character in spite of everything.
Oscar Isaac is just build different
I think he's the most unnecessary tbh
I wanted to see more of Fin too.
Nah they ruined him by revealing he used to be a smuggler. Now he's another swash buckling jacket wearing former spice smuggler turned ace rebel hero. Just cemented him as a Han Solo rip off
I cannot believe I got completely hooked with a sponsor section. I need to know more of Wren!
Yeah, you summed it up well. The sequel trilogy had so much potential. They set up so many good stories and then just did almost nothing with them, except for the bits where they remembered their own plot and then proceeded to completely fuck it up.
I disagree that Silco manipulates jinx.
Manipulating someome (in this context) is purposely misleading them for your own gain.
Thats not what Silco does.
Everything he tells Jinx he believes.
The fact that Silco himself is a war torn and damaged individual and he ends up projecting his own trauma and insecurities into her is not a malicious or devious act but one rooted in concern and triggerd by his own fears.
As far as I can tell he never lied to Jinx.
Aside from not telling her Vi was back but assuming he genuinly think Vi was there for the stone and that she would abandon jinx again, a sentiment he expresses more than once, even that could genuinly come from caring about jinx.
Silco has massive trust issues after the whole Vander dispute (there are without a doubt a whole pile of other things but the Vander dispute is the one they picked to represent it) and could never trust him again, from his personality its very likely he believes the same about Vi.
The whole reason he took jinx in instead of killing her in the first place was because he saw himself in her.
He knew the betrayal of his brother and could never trust him again.
In Jinx he saw the betrayal of her sister and she shouldnt trust her again.
Its a direct parallell.
As F:ed as Silco is, he geniunely loved Jinx... shes probably the only person he ever truely cared about since him and Vander parted ways.
And considering how things play out, I highly doubt he ever did anything to harm or decieve her.
Not on purpose anyway.
Silco told jinx alot of things that werent necissarily correct... but he BELIEVED them to be, thats not the same as lying or manipulating, thats just being wrong.
Id rather use a neutral word like "influence".
Silco had a bad influence on Jinx.
Also to whatever smartypants who wanna quote the dictionary definition on me.
Yes, I know "manipulating" can mean literally any action that has an effect on something/someone else.
But in this context thats not what it means or it would literally hold no meaning cuz EVERYONE would be manipulating everyone and everything they come in contact with and pointing this out would be a massive exercise in redundancy.
That Han and Kylo scene was Kylo forgiving himself, which is... ridiculous, like your carbon footprint counter at the end of your video!
kylo's turn to the dark side is pretty shitty, i can get why he's mad at jake skywalker but killing all the students was a step too far, even the comics realized this and made him regret his actions
Pretty happy you get a sponsor, cuz it means you're on the track of going big!
You know, I think cutting back on Rey's importance would have been smarter, maybe hand the lead role to Boyega and darken his character arc more. He ain't comic relief, he's literally a stormtrooper trying to turn away from the First Order and their Dark Side shenanigans. Could have gotten an on screen version of something closer to Atton Rand, but nope! Gotta stuff in a mary sue to show those silly boys some Grrl Power.
That was a brilliantly articulate discussion. I didn't see the parallels between Arcane and the Last Jedi but it's so obvious now.
Of all the Sequel Trilogy characters, the best by far was BB-8 because honestly, there's nothing to really object to about him. He's consistently likable, he's expressive, he's got great gadgets, and he's a pretty decent extension of the evolution of astromechs... and he is a great toy, just like they wanted all along. He is a bit of a replacement for R2-D2, and that is a shame, but since he is, what a replacement! In terms of character, R2 still has more, but BB-8 is by far the best addition to Star Wars to come out of the Sequels, and JJ gets one shred of respect from me for that, although I can also easily take it away because of D-0; I hate that character so much.
Oh right, this is a video about Kylo Ren.
I did not once like him in The Force Awakens because of his emotional outbursts, nothing seemed believable to me that this guy was second in command to everything. The Last Jedi did a lot to make him an actual character in my opinion, I actually really liked him because he wasn't just a visage of Vader and while emotional, his outbursts came after Rey rejecting his offer to join forces after slowly manipulating her into believing they were fighting for the same thing. I'll accept that he's having a rough day after that. Also Hux keeps echoing all his orders, who wouldn't be annoyed? And then Rise of Skywalker happens and I lose all respect for him again because after doubling down and becoming Supreme Leader, he decides to just become second in command to a zombie and rebuilds his helmet whose destruction was a symbol of growth for the character. Yeah, that's pretty lame.
Every character in the ST is a rip off of an OT character except Finn.
Rey is another desert planet hero who finds a rebel droid in the desert and gets chased off world, becomes a jedi, and is (PLOT TWIST) revealed to be the secret offspring of a sith lord.
Poe is another drug smuggler turned ace rebel pilot.
Kylo is Vader right down to dying saving the hero from Palpy in a throne room showdown.
Snoke was a Palpatine clone who got replaced by a literal Palpatine clone.
Just found your channel and am currently binging all of it! Wonderful, thoughtful work! Keep it up!
How To Fail A Character: Gladiator Extended
How Not To Fail A Character: Gladiator Theatrical
The character I'm talking about is Commodus. Commodus was supposed to be the immoral but he still needed to be human. The extended version forgot about this. Honestly the lesson I learned most from the two movies combined is that scenes are cut from movies often for good reason.
I never watched the extended version. How does that change him?
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 The moviemakers radicalise Commodus so much in order to justify his sister's actions in the extended version. They turn Commodus from a self-centred, self-serving human villain to a laughably over-the-top idiot monster who will kill his subjects on a whim and destroy his own empire so his people will like him for a few days beforehand. I suppose what I'm saying is that the extended version removes Commodus's humanity and relatability from the movie.
I write plays. This is very good food for thought in motivations and catharsis of characters. Well done.
people only like kylo cause of adam driver acting the shit out of him, which is a damn shame
Kylo’s trauma is about feeling rejected, dismissed, and unloved by his father giving him abandonment issues. He projects his need for a father figure onto Luke during training, and that’s what Snoke used to get into his head. From there it was easy to use his abandonment wound to convince him Luke was going to abandon him, creating the rift. Snoke convinced him to kill Hans to prove his hate, but he never hated his father, not really, it was a defense mechanism against his hurt feelings of abandonment. So at the end there, that moment with Hans was him finally getting the love and acceptance he needed from his father to begin to heal and move forward as a person. I’m pretty sure I only picked this up because of personal experiences and research, it was not written well like you said. Kylo is a whole bag of childhood trauma all centered around his parents. I think Leigh talks about it some, but we’re talking like single dropped sentences like it was not enough. I really liked a lot of your characterization points though, and the compare/contrast with another similar arch. I’m gonna look into that one thanks.