Hotone Ampero Stage: what about latency?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- With this video we will check out the latency management of the AMPERO II STAGE: is it as good as the best modellers in the market? I hope you enjoy!.
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⏰Timecodes:
0:00 - INTRO
0:24 - Ampero Stage Latency
#Ampero #Hotone #HotoneAmperoStage - เพลง
I appreciate your dedication and consistency for what you are doing!! Salute!
Thank you so much!!
Thank you Leo🙏 I’ve been waiting for this video!🤗❤️
You are welcome!!!
Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. I have actively been searching for this information, everywhere in forums and reviews, but, couldn't find it anywhere.
You are welcome!
PLEASE BE AWARE BEFORE BUYING A HOTONE AMPERO II STAGE:
1. MIDI OUT is not working (yet). I contacted Hotone about this but they can't confirm if this 'feature' will be fixed anywhere in 2024.
2. You cannot RENAME Scenes to 'Intro', 'Chorus' etc. It will just be 'Scene 1', 'Scene 2', etc.
Just so you know.
Thanks Leo, I'm looking forward to your full review of the Stage. I just got mine a few days ago. :)
You are welcome!!! Yes, I'm working on the full review....
Thank you Leo! Very interesting results.
You are welcome!
We get what we pay for. We consumers need to help the manufacturers with constructuve feedback, so when releasing new or updating thier products, they become better and better. For the price it is not bad, however the user needs to know what the expectations are! Thank you for all your dedication Leo!
Hi, thank you for sharing your findings and I'm happy that you appreciate the videos!!
Super helpful video! I've been looking at the Ampero Stage, but it seems to have some problems for my use.
Thank you, I'm happy to have been of some help!
Another great video, Leo, thanks. This unit seems to be a good choice. Just a little detail, when you said that the double path amp+ir didn't increase the latency, I expected to see the bar in the 3. something mark, but it was at 4. something. IDK if it was a mistake. Irrelevant, we understood clearly.
Thank you, I'm happy that you appreciate the video!!!
Thank you also for highlighting the latency of the parallel chain: it is related to a chain with wah, ts, amp, ir, rev and delay, therefore it is like the line above ....sorry, it was not clear enough. ..as the picture shows just amp+ir...
Thank you!
If amps / cabs sound good and it does basic effects well then I’m in! I have a Kemper Stage which has been super reliable and sounds great…but it’s heavy and bulky. If someone else is carrying my gear then great but who’s not in the market for something that fits in a backpack and covers 99% of what you need from a guitar rig? I’m sold on this and happy not to have to shell out near $2k for a Quad Cortex.
Thank you for sharing!
Yes, portability is a pretty important aspect also for me...
Considering the price I think it is excellent ! In actual use I find no problem with any latency so for me it works . I dont use complex chains as I wouldn't on my floor board with amps..
Thank you for sharing!
Hi Leo! Another great and helpful vid. The Ampero 2 Stage can manage 1024 and 2048 IR samples. Do you know by any chance if, for this unit, the latency to process 2048 IR samples is noticeable? Thanks.
Thank you!!!!
The latency with IR at 2048 should be the one in this video, if I remember it well: th-cam.com/video/U_RhxjDSV40/w-d-xo.html
Thanks!
Thanks😊
You are welcome!!!
I received mine a few days ago. I bought it just because of dual input that allows me to use my PRS SE Piezo to its full potential and mix acoustic and electric tones. So far super impressed. It will replace my Pod Go. I am looking forward to the full review.
Hi, thank you for sharing your experience and your findings!!!
Hey dude thinking of getting this as fender haven’t added many updates to the tone master pro. Can you replace Amps on scene mode? Or do you have to have them all on the patch and turn them off? Cheers
@@AkimboVermon What you have in the patch have to be used in the scene
@@AkimboVermon You can have two amps in the patch and switch them on and off per scene. You can also run them simultaneously if you use two separate paths.
I love your videos. :) What is the wireless microphone that you are using? DJI?
Yes, not the last one...but the previous version.
Thank you, I'm really happy that you appreciate the videos!!!
It would be really interesting if you could test the Ampero II Stomp after it's latest firmware update. And compare the numbers (in 2024) compared to the Stage. As they have the same audio processor hardware and DSP capacity. And now with the new firmware update, they are running similar versions of firmware (and use the same V2.0.0 software editor). It would be very interesting to know if the numbers have changed for the Stomp with the newest firmware. It would help identify what it is that changed the numbers for the Stage.. ie.. firmware optimisations or physical hardware changes in the newer model.
You're channel is the leader online in terms of checking and confirming the latency aspectof all the digital units. Most other channels never even mention it. While yours has detailed numbers, it's great.
Ok, thank you for your suggestion! I have some videos to do...then I will think about the latency tests of these to Amperos....thank you!
@@LeoGibsonGtr Thanks for your reply. It's understandable Leo, your channel produces a lot of good videos and these take a lot of work to make. It would be great if you could find time for it later on in the year. I rewatched all of your Ampero II latency videos again today, and the latencies are actually pretty similar for both units. However the Stomp had extra latency for Tubescreamer/OD.. and the Stage didn't. For example.. amp+ir+wah+ts+dly 3.4ms for Stage, 5.0ms for Stomp.. otherwise the numbers are very similar.
It would be very interesting to see current numbers in 2024 now that both have the same UI and use the same editor. There's no rush. Both units have pretty good latency now.. compared to the first Ampero II test you did which was quite bad. And it was your tests that showed this, and helped urge them to fix it.
Yes, it's for sure interesting! There was a firmware update that reduce the latency few months ago....I have to check out if after having released the Stage....also the Stomp has been improved!
Thank you!
This is horrible. What did they do with the CAB? 7,8 miliseconds is beyond unacceptable in 2024. Thank you for the video, Leo.
You are welcome.
The values are not bad...considering that with a parallel chain you have good performances....the CAB is very intensive on DSP.... that could also derive from the quality of the CAB and the possibility to move mics, etc.
Gracias por éste video. Si tuviera que decidirse entre éste equipo y Boss gx100 cual escogería? Muchas gracias
You are welcome!!! Well, I should do a direct comparison with the GX100 to answer properly...maybe in the coming weeks.
Thanks!
Have you tried latest HQ amps on Ampero 2 Stomp? What are your thoughts on them? Do you plan to make a comparsion of regular an HQ amps? (currently available Soldano regular an HQ amp).
Hi, interesting point....I will think about it.
*What about latency for; not using the amp, cab and wah/stomp section but only the Effects along with a real amp? ALSO, lets say I wanted to use that box as an EFFECTS Module for a real amp. Could I route it internally so the stereo input/out can be used as a 2nd stereo effects loop and use booth the actual stereo effects loop AND the stereo I/O for a total of 2 stereo effects loop to route effects?*
Hi, in the video there is the latency of a chain without anything, I mean, without any fc block activated, which is around 3ms. An effect block adds around 0,1ms but the reverb which is more complex.
I'm sorry, but I have not understood the other part of the question.
Pretty impressive really. Zero latency effects loop is great, parellel chain not adding any latency is great. The main issue seems to be adding the cab block.
Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for the comparison! I had the Fractal FM3 and sold it because I think the Hotone Stage is better. The noise gate in the FM3 is not good and the latency is very noticeable. I don’t have this issues with the Stage and the overall tone is also better than the FM3, which I had for almost 1 year.
Hi, thank you so much for sharing your experience and your findings!!!
hello sir
I am planning to buy ampero stage , is the latency notice
ble?
Dear Leo! Do you have a video about how much time it takes for each multieffect pedal to change patches? I would be really interested in those numbers.
I had a TC Nova System in the old days witch was so slow that I had to change push the buttons 1-2 seconds early to change in time. What is with these new ones? I read that HX stomp has Scenes but i don’t know how that works and everything else works
Hi, so far I didn't make any video about preset change time....maybe in the future!
For sure scenes help, basically scenes or snapshot allow you to change some basic parameters of a preset with zero lags.
Thanks!
Thanks. I would really love to see how the preset changes work in different systems.
Someone help me here, when he says latancy, is it refering to hitting the string of the guitar and the time it takes for you can hear it?
Hi, yes, exactly. More info here: th-cam.com/video/oU0-_3Hub9o/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
What kind of midi messages can it send to external devices with patch and scenes changes?
None. The Stage cannot send any MIDI messages yet (only MIDI Clock)
Ciao Leo thank you indeed for your amazing video. Ti scriverò in italiano. Ho bisogno di capire tante cose ho il ampero 2 stage da 2 settimane. Sto costruendo ancora i suoni - preset. Ieri ho avuto le prove e dopo il tuo video ho cominciato a pensare molto alla latenza. Prima cosiderazione, l'ho notata molto (ho dei present con cab.) Gli speaker erono a una distanza di 3,50 metri. Questo può contribuire ad avere la sensazione di latenza?
Consigli gli IR per avere un suono più reattivo o per avere la 2 stage più performante?
Uso un sistema wireless NUX C 5RC con 5.5 ms di latency.... è accettabile oppure è troppo.
Sono nuovo in questo mondo digitale. Mi consigli di avere una spia personale per me e per ridurre la latenza.
Grazie
Ciao Renato,
in effetti la latenza si somma, quindi se usi i cab nell'Ampero + il sistema wireless + sei distante dagli speaker, puoi superare i 15ms di latenza...e potresti quindi avere problemi, in funzione di quanto sei sensibile alla latenza stessa.
Secondo me puoi usare le IR dell'Ampero che suonano comunque molto bene.
Sul tema cassa personale...non saprei...credo questo dipenda molto da come sei abituato con il tuo gruppo ed è forse la cosa su cui interverrei per ultimo.
Sul tema sistemi wireless non sono un esperto...io non li uso...ma più per idiosincrasia personale (temo la batteria si scarichi...possano non funzionare, etc) che altro...quindi non saprei. Evidentemente li puoi eliminare e sei apposto...oppure puoi cercare altre soluzioni....ma non saprei proprio che marca o tipo consigliarti.
Grazie!
@@LeoGibsonGtr grazie mille. Spero di vedere una tua recensione sull'ampero 2 stage.
Grazie a te! Si, ci sto lavorando!
@@LeoGibsonGtr ciao scusami se ti disturbo nuovamente. Ma ti vorrei chiedere un favore. Ho ridato indietro la 2 stage. Ieri l'ho usata come una normale pedaliera analogica cioè dritta nel mio amp valvolare. Ho creato un preset semplice composto da noise gate ,chorus,overdrive, distorsor,eq,delay,reverbero. Ho fatto delle scene. Clean , per arpeggi con chorus delay e reverbero. Una blues cioè overdrive e reverbero. Una distorsione e reverbero l'ultima overdrive come boost seguito del distorsore e delay e reverbero per l'assolo. Purtroppo ogni volta che selezionavo lascena crunch si verifcava un forte suono lo definisco BOP. Per favore puoi fare un simile test. Aggiungo che tra i cambi dei preset c'è un brevissimo vuoto-interruzione, è rapido ma a questo punto ammetto che la Valeon gp200 andava meglio. Altra difficoltà è che non sono riuscito a comandarla tramite app Bluetooth. L'ho rimandata a Thomman. Forse sono stato sfortunato a ricevere un'unità difettosa ..... spero che ti possa essere utile questa mia esperienza per testare la 2 stage.
Hey leo just my thought: why Nux never attacking big firm like fractal or kamper. Thank you.
Hi, I'm not sure to have understood your message.
May I ask you to clarify what you mean with "NUX never attacking"?
Thanks!
I would be interested in purchasing the Ampero 2 Stage. How does it compare, in terms of sound and power, to other more renowned and expensive models?
Hi, good question....I'm still thinking to what other modellers it should be compared....in fact in terms of price and form factor it is pretty unique: Please feel free to share your suggestions.
Thank you!
@@LeoGibsonGtr In my opinion, it should be compared to high-end modelers like Fractal, Headrush, and Helix. Recently, some really interesting machines are coming out even at a lower cost!
I also have the Nux Trident, which I find quite good for its price! What do you think about the Trident?
Hi, thank you for your suggestion! Yes, I love the Trident, it's a nice machine with a unique approach....or at least together with the BOSS ME 90
Thank you!
@@LeoGibsonGtr I would also add the Quad Cortex.
So if I have two units i can send signal to second using external fx with no additional latency , and connecting midi cables between them will replicate actions on the second unit. So power of two with no additional ms?? sounds unreal
Hi, I'm sorry but I didn't understand how you have jumped to these conclusions and how you would like to connect the two units.
Thanks
hi,could you test the Donne Arena 2000
Hi, thank you for your suggestion!
If Donner sends me a unit to try, I will be happy to review it.
Thanks!
vs TONEX? how would you compare it to TONEX? thank you
Hi, pretty different devices. The Stage is an all in one modeller, with effects, etc. The ToneX is just a profile loader....
Thank you!
good info.. but its very difficult to detect anything less than 10-15ms.
Thank you for sharing!
Let me add that
1) latency sum up, therefore we should always take into consideration the overall latency of our system: if you have a wireless system, latency sum up, if you are far from your speaker, latency sum up, etc.
2) each of us has different sensibility to latency....I receive all the time messages telling me that they can feel latency at 5ms...or even less.
Thank you!
I want to have duel amps and sing through the ampero stage...is that possible?
Hi, if you mean two amps in parallel, I've tried, but I think it is not possible: you can have two parallel signal chains, one for guitar and one for voice, but then you can not split the guitar chain to have two parallel amps. On the other hand you can load two amps in series.
If you want two amps in parallel, you can NOT have another chain dedicated to the voice.
If someone has different info, please drop here a message.
This measurements applies also to the scenes function?
Hi, I'm not sure if I understood the question. May I ask you what should be the difference with scenes?
Please take into consideration that this is not the latency while changing preset, this is the latency in term of timing the unit takes to actually play the sound, once you have picked the sting.
Thanks!
@@LeoGibsonGtr ah ok.. i thought that it was the latency during patch changes
@@LeoGibsonGtr by the way I'm waiting for new videos to come about this unit :) i will stay tuned
Hi, yes, I'm working on the demo review.... :)....maybe next WE...it takes some time to test the unit....I hope you understand.
Thank you!
Are those value different from the stomp?
Hi, they are very similar
hello Sir
is the latency of cab noticable when playing?
It depends how sensible you are to latency.
I can still play pretty comfortably with 8ms of latency....but It also depends how far your are from the speaker, if you use wireless transmitters...etc.
Thank you!
Can someone who understands the difference between the "cab block" and "IR's" please explain it to me. For instance, is the "cab block", the internal modelling of the speaker cabinet and mic placement? What about these IR's then, are they preloaded on the unit itself (Leo seems to confirm this), and can you load other IR's through the Stage editor and save them on the unit itself, this part has me confused and not clear, I've never used a unit like this. And I suppose the final question is what the hell is going on with the "cab block" on this unit and the first stomp unit to be so darn awful?
Hi, trying to simplify, an IR is just a snapshot of a specific mic, in a specific position over a cab, with a specific hardware capturing that mic. The Cab block is more compicated, as you can choose the mic, the position of the mic across the cab, etc.... I mean a cab block could be considered as a collection of different IRs...or it could have been done without IRs...but with some other algorithms...
Leo already answered it.. but IR generally sounds better in a best case scenario but it's a static image or snapshot. The mic placement and mics used are locked in. So if it's your fave IR it will probably sound the best, but you can't change it (I mean you can create or tweak IR's on your PC with software, but not on the Ampero pedal itself). For choosing your fave IR, a lot of that is about preference.
The cab block is flexible and dynamic and you can simulate the tonal differences of different mic positions. The simulation side of things puts extra load on the DSP causing the latency (in the case of Hotone this is more exaggerated than with other modellers).
It's very similar to tone captures like Tonex (static) vs modelling like Fractal AxeFx (flexible). You've one an option that potentially sounds better but with very little flexibility. The other option has a lot more flexibility. Both can sound good in the right situations but some people need extra flexibility, and other people want the best possible tones.
Thank you!
@@Jonw8222 Thankyou for your detailed answer, between the two of you this has filled in all the gaps in my understanding - many regards to you both.
I'm very sensitive to latency, and 5ms starts becoming annoying and negatively affects my playing. A latency of 8ms is way too much, and is a deal breaker for me.
The overall design of the Ampero 2 Stage is extremely good, and I hope they can reduce the Cab latency. Thanks Leo for doing this important testing and sharing the results.
You are welcome and thank you for sharing your needs.
Same with me being sensitive to latency, I really do hope that they do something about that cab block - but the IRs I could live with. That why I think this unit is going to the top of my list above the TMP, and Helix and $1,000 cheaper as well.
Are you sure you are that sensitive and it's not just a psychological thing? I mean, if you're playing a real amp and your 10 feet away how do you feel? When you step back 2 feet do you suddenly feel like you can't hear the music properly or can't play anymore? Having played online games with dialup many years ago, I know how bad latency can be. But that was the difference between a 300 ping or a 150 ping. I know there's a difference between 20ms and 10ms. But the difference between 5ms and 6ms? For example, keys on a keyboard have latency. Does typing on a computer keyboard bother you? There's latency with most digital things in our modern world and most of the time, we don't even notice it.
@@Jonw8222 Yes, I'm absolutely sure I'm that sensitive to latency, and first became aware of the problem when using Vst Synthesizers.
I can’t decide between HX Stomp and Ampero Stage…?!?!
It would be an interesting comparison...Maybe I will do it in the coming weeks.
Thank you for your suggestion!
@@LeoGibsonGtr Leo. I need this video. Any update on this or just plain opinion right now which would you choose? I need to buy something for luve use services. I assume. Even 8 ms latency wouldnt be a problem with all wired set up with monitors (iem) directly to the stage II and another signal path coming from foh.
There is ams with HQ in their name. That add more latency then amps without HQ
Just to add some context, 1ms is about the same time it takes sound to travel one foot (30cm) on average - air temp and elevation account for some variation.
As I always say, we should take into account the whole latency of our entire system, as latency sum up. If you have a wireless system, latency sum up, if you have a digital unit in the loop, latency sum up, and of course the more you are far from your speakers the more latency you are gonna add...
wait mooer ge1000
Yes, I'm working also on that unit.... :)
You'd have the same latency if you were away from a real amp. Sound isn't instantaneous unless you're directly at the source.
I used to play a guitar in one room with the amp in another with the door mostly closed and the disconnect is really, really disconcerting. I don't know how Jimi Hendrix did it running around in the crowd. But, yes, sound is not instantaneous it can't be, even when listening to someone speaking in the same room, the sound is in the past, same with vision as well. Everything we see and hear is in the past.
Yes, but the latency sum up. I mean, if you use a modeller and you are far away from the speaker, the two latencies sum up. If you add a wireless system, the latency sum up, etc. In my opinion we have always to take into consideration the whole latency of our system: that's why it is important to know the latency of each component of our system.
Thank you
@@LeoGibsonGtr Absolutely, Leo. Didn't mean to sound otherwise. I appreciate your work in determining these.
Thank you Scott!
8ms??? No thanks.
With cabs, if you use IR it is lower.
Thanks!