Replacing 18650 battery cells in a Dyson V6 cordless vacuum battery
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2020
- Hi TH-cam,
I found a Dyson V6 cordless vacuum that seemed to be working fine, except that it would only work for 2-3 minutes.
It seemed like it needed a new battery, so I decided to crack it open and replace the cells inside, and now it works like a charm.
While I was in there, I also decided to install bigger capacity 18650 cells to increase run time between charges.
Please only do this if you have experience with electronics, handling batteries, and soldering.
This video is just to show you how I replaced the cells in the battery from my Dyson and isn't meant to be a definitive guide. If you decide to replace the cells in your vacuum, do so at your own risk.
Link to battery opener tool on Thingiverse:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:311...
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Hey everyone ! A lot of people have been asking how long the battery life with the new batteries, and I have been told it lasts at least 30 minutes on normal mode. I'll try and see if I can get a more accurate run time, but hopefully this is a good reference for anyone wanting to replace / upgrade batteries. Happy modding !
Superimposing your multimeter during all the voltage checks would be a *golden* addition to this video.
I will never buy a Dyson ever again lol. So expensive and the packs last like one year. Thanks for the video!
5 years warranty...
The battery on our DC44 has lasted about 10 years. Used at least a handful of times every week.
HI Alex, Hi, if you disconnect a Dyson BMS (like for many laptop BMS now) and change the cells , it locks down definitively (red light) after new connection. (You didn't show the final result) . So you cannot change the cells, with obligation to buy a new pack.
I add that the motor drains a lot of amps (more than 20A with Max) to run, and the only voltage control is not enough. It's necessary to control first of all the internal resistance of each cell. You can often still have a good voltage level (I opened a lot of Dyson packs with more than 4V/cell) but with too high IR ; so if you drain too much amps on such a "tired" battery , voltage falls and the BMS stops the current. Simply an usual BMS allows the recharge...but Dyson's BMS not!
With these Dyson batteries with only one cells row (2 rows in // would be much better...but commercially uninteresting) don't use the max power. That kills these weak batteries very quickly : Max power = max amps discharge in a very short time , and Lithium cannot support this torture a long time, even with good 30A cells. With 2 // rows it would be half as much per cell. But life time would be too long for Dyson!
Friendly, Michel.
First sentence - exactly the same with laptop batteries. 🤔😕
Thanks for this. Not going to waste my time doing this
@@Houndzee Not possible if you keep the Dyson BMS. But if you do this with a chinese replacement BMS (10€) and good high drain cells, here 6 for 30/40€, it runs without issue. And this BMS is re-usable , so you just have to change the cells next time. It's my own choice , with 2700mAh cells, so I have better capacity.
I always cut all little plastic tabs on the box to open this box easily and control the balance : a lot of batteries are dead because only one or two cells were faulty.
And I always use new cells : it vey difficult to keep a good balance with good but already used cells.
@@Michel-Artois honestly the OEM one from Dyson is $90. So it’s not worth all this hassle to make something that won’t look as good, untested and without warranty.
@@Houndzee nobody cares about your laziness, go watch something else 🤩
Thanks for showing us how difficult it is to disassemble this battery pack. Now I know it's not worth my time to investigate!
Le gars ne fait que vérifier la tension il a tout faut il faut testée eb capaciter tout les accu les accu peuvent avoir une bonne tension mais une caoacitee très basse
Tip: Don't pop the board off, thinking it's just stuck on with a drop of hot snot. There is a thermal sensor on the board that sticks down into a hole in the casing, between two of the cells, and it's glued in place. On mine, this also made it difficult to remove two of the cells that seemed to be stuck with the same glue. Mine had the same 2100mAh capacity cells but were LG (LGDAHD2C1865).
Thank you - I had to press the two cells out carefully with a clamp (taped up so as not to short the cell) whereas the others almost just fell out. The black glue or resin is so strong it ripped the cell wrapping apart. So, just wanted to let people know they might have to buy some 18650 shrink-wrap covers if they're wanting to re-use the tired cells in something a bit less hungry. I was really worried about damaging the cell, I'm not sure I'd bother with this again due to the hassle but I guess that's what Dyson wants.
Yeah, it's definitely a pain to open. Not for the faint hearted.
@@chocolate_squiggle for those with power tools at home, you better off just buying an adapter to use with your own power tool batteries.
@@mistahcheng very true.
@@ruinunes8251 not many power tool batteries run at 21.6 Volt though. Most are 18 Volt (or "20V Max", which is also 18V effective).
It's criminal that these manufacturers don't make these cells user replaceable. It would be so easy to design a cradle so they just pop in, similar to AA or AAA batteries holders in various other devices.
Manufactures of alkaline batteries in the US have lobbied for legislation which only allows battery packs that use lithium ion cells, to only be sold as a complete assembly. Technically it’s not even legal for unprotected lithium ion cells to be sold in the US. But it doesn’t seem like anybody’s enforcing that.
I'm sure a lot of this has to do with cost and it being easier to use tin strips instead of battery holders.
Another guess is they probably don't want people messing with this due to liability and wanting people to buy new batteries when they break.
To me, this is similar to laptop batteries, where they're sealed and if you want to fix them, it requires a lot of effort to replace without damaging the casing.
I agree, it definitely sucks though :(.
It seems to benefit everyone that profits from it, except mother earth. Manufacturers today seem to want everything to work only for a limited period of time, then replace it or upgrade to a new one. One would think swapping 18650 cells would be the easiest fix, then the old cells can be repurposed or recycled. I wonder how many devices that requires lithium batteries gets toss out to landfills just because one or two cells are bad?
@@ilingwang1168 Agreed, and this is definitely not a sustainable model ! I think the manufacturer that's the worst about repairability and parts availability is Apple. If you're curious about this, check out Louis Rossman's channel.
I think a lot of it has to do with safety. A high-current discharge 18650 has a lot more power and fire risk than normal alkaline cells. Can you imagine if some kid put them in the wrong way or accidentally shorted them out? But yeah, also more money for the manufacturer. I'm sure they don't mind that.
Hi Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for posting this. We bought a replacement battery but the case was different so I had to disassemble and swap out the cells. It was crucial to know where those tabs were!
I’ve seen some battery changing videos in a dyson battery pack, but none of them showed that the machine worked with these new batteries. A friend in İstanbul works in a shop engaged in battery grouping. He said dyson did their best to prevent any battery replacement. He said he had replaced batteries as shown in the video (not soldering of course) , but it didn’t work. I’ve got a dyson , too. I’ve been waiting for the battery for six months. No news, yet.
I have had the same problem. Recharged cells replaced , Voltage OK but did not work. I would advise the first mistake is to buy a Dyson. And then Dyson batteries were unavailable.
@@falconer100 In such systems, it is possible that the BMS (Battery management system) locked out when it measured 0V at the time you disconnected the cells. Usually, to avoid this you should be able to connect a power supply in parallel before disconnecting the cells from the PCB.
If you are eager to tinker with it more, there are some projects that flash a new software onto the BMS (also adding the cell balancing capability of the battery that dyson purposely did not add to their BMS so cells die quicker)
@@benjaminhennequart5018 Thank you for your explanation.
Great video. Just what I was looking for. I opened mine up and found 1 of the cells was broken. I’ll buy another unit and keep the 5 good cells for a usb charger I have.
Awesome, I'm glad it helped !
Just watch your video, i drilled out the welding onto battery like a pop rivet worked well also makes resoldering easier. Cheers good video
Hi Alex, Thanks for the informative video it helped a lot , after watching and seeing the difficulty of separating the case I decided to use 3 thin butter knives simultaneously on each side (obviously one on each tab) with great success and very minimal distortion to the casing took all of about 3 minutes to separate and as only one cell was dead and having a spare on hand it only took around 15 minutes to repair but it did take an hour and a half to charge the mini spot welder.
you should make a video removing the case in 3 minutes!
@@hairy8184 g'day, sounds good but unfortunately not my forte lol
Thanks for details! I used heat gun, warmed the plastic until the small flathead screwdriver allowed it to pry up and cool in unlocked position 😎, did this at each lock tab and I had it easily apart in about 2 mins!
@@hairy8184 He Fuc-king 100% lying here through his teeth,if he very lucky,he can removed those very tightly packaging shell in of those batteries about half an hour.I destroying the whole shell a very tightly packaging shell to taken out of those 18650 batteries out. It took me about an hour.
@@jamesbsa6450 This guy lying though his teeth even more.Heat gun heat well melted these thin types of plastics easily..
Thx Alex for uploading.... exactly what I was looking for 👍
It's actually a VERY straightforward job and WELL worth it _if you know what you're doing_ on refurbishing battery packs. There's a special place in hell for the person who designed those clips on the shell, though.
...Now where the heck is my dremel?
At least it’s not ultrasonically welded together. Clips should make it relatively easy to open.
Thanks! You helped me reuse some old Dyson batteries for flashlights.
Excellent video, dude! You did a great job and it’s very instructional.
FYI: If you try to use this battery to power something else, the BMS checks the load and will cut off power if the load has a too-high in-rush current, or a too-low constant current, etc.
The location of the tabs that you pointed out is Great info! Thanks.
I actually did a really nice job with this using a diy spot welder. I put the original leads way back and soldered my new spot welded tabs to them on the plastic, keeping the soldering iron off of the battey. My problem is that I used some grade b or c Panasonic cells that that barley survived a failed cell or BMS draining all the packs. Their new ratings went down to 3200 - 3400 mAh. They work great on normal mode but can't handle the max mode as the voltage sags and it shuts off. I will replace them with LG IMR cells which are rated at 3 Amp hour but have a 20 Amp discharge.
The trick to easily separating the cell is to first pry the top around the snout and while keeping it pried apart with your hands, work the nearest clips one at a time.
These batteries can go nuclear if mishandled. I’ve seen it many times
@@Btree33 sure you have. They’re actually pretty resilient
@@randycollens2681 Dont be so sure of that.. Whats thats saying???.. FAFO....
Great video, i have been having the same problem removing the batteries, (what a pain!)
It seem than takinv cover off is the hardest part oc this DIY job.
For those who want to buy a new battery for this old machine, I got a full piece replacement with housing 3000mah on Ali....... 2 years ago for 25eur.
Dyson v6 is used 2-3 times a week and still going strong !
Thank you for the video, I'm not trying to repair the battery pack but salvage the good cells out of one I found. Your video helped with opening the case up.
Tyvm.
Very helpful video. Thanks a lot.
thank you for doing this video - very helpful
Running the iron at a hotter temperature to minimize how much the cells heat up sounds counter-intuitive to many, but it’s absolutely true for digital temperature-controlled soldering irons which maintain a set temperature by measuring at the tip and turning the heat on and off.
Soldering pros know that your tip instantly loses whatever heat it had when it touches a significantly larger thermal mass… like a nickel strip and battery terminal with fresh solder. This means that the iron will need to recover and restore its tip to the set temperature by turning on the heat. It will turn off again as soon as the internals of the tip reach the target temp but it will instantly lose that heat before the interface temps at the surface get hot enough, so your solder will still refuse to flow.
That’s because it is still sinking heat into the high thermal mass you are trying to solder. It will detect this drop each time and continue cycling the heating element until the combined thermal mass of the battery, nickel strip, and iron tip are all heat-soaked. While this is happening, everything down the line slowlys heat up much more than it needed to.
You want the largest tip you have pre-loaded with as much solder as it will hold so that you have as much thermal mass as possible pre-heated before you ever touch the battery. A higher temperature means it can maintain a high enough temperature for the solder to flow before the heat drops too much. It takes time to heat up the rest, so as long as you are in and out fast enough it results in a lower temperature at the heat-sensitive parts.
Of course, you still want to limit temps as much as possible above what you need to pull this off. I would not recommend soldering with a traditional thermocouple-type DTC iron. The newer cartridge types with the heating element built into the tip have much better thermal recovery to get away with using lower temperatures on high thermal masses. Something like the TS80/TS100 or a clone that takes Hakko T12 or JBC tips would be perfect and affordable. Despite this, I’m still rocking an old T18 clone (old type) so I use a cheap battery spot welder. ;)
Thanks mate respect from turkey
Thx for the link for battery opener
I have a SkyRC B6AC V2 charger. How can I charge this pack withouth complete opening teh batterypack? I just wanna try to refresh. But through the plug I dont get any connection. I gues its because of the platine?
Can you say what type of batteries you replaced and a link to buy them, what the best replacement batteries ?
Great video was curious to know what type of battery is inside. But not for me will buy a new replacement without a complain as it is delicate and so manual work to do.
They come with Sony VTC cells, and definitely not the effort ! I'd highly recommend getting an OEM replacement since you never know what kind of cells are in 3rd party replacement batteries.
You can purchase adaptors that allow you to use battery packs from DeWalt, Makita, or Milwaukee 18V cordless power tools that work on the Dyson V6. I bought one, only to discover that my Dyson was a DC35 slim (so much for "if your vacuum has 2 filters and a 'Max' button it has to be a V6" (in fact it could also be a DC35)) and therefore not compatible, sigh...
Tin battery's before placing them into battery holder?
You can replace the metal strips with wire but subject solid copper wire.
Missed a couple of vital steps which would have made disassembly much, much easier and much less destructive of the case, ie the torx screw holding the 2 top ("extension") parts together, the two clips in the top ("extension") parts and the "blue lights" on each side which are not lights at all but clear plastic extensions from part of the BMS which can be lit up as required AND are also additional clips.
Yea, as previously mentioned two of the cells are 'stuck' with hot glue or simiar that secures the thermistor. I have actually damaged the thermistor on a few I have done win tremovign the battery.
I came here to see if you unsoldered the thermistor and removed the board first. I was thinking about getting a replacement thermistor for the packs I had damaged. oping you were login to give mea part number for the thermistor! Guess I'll have to do another careful dismantling to see if I can find any numbers on one
Are the sony Sony VTC6 more suitable?
On the battery with the higher charge rate will the dyson charger meet those requirements? I know some chargers only reach a set max on charge out put.
The BMS usually charges at a constant voltage and current, so if I'm not mistaken, it'll stop charging when the battery has hit a particular voltage and / or capacity.
If that's the case, then there shouldn't be an issue with fully charging the battery fully.
If anyone is more knowledgeable about this, feel free to correct me.
@@mistahcheng thanks for the intell.
It is pretty funny i saw this video when i did. I was repairing a broken water line under a house after seeing this video and found a dyson v6 vacuum. I think ill give this a try. I was interested in the process just in a general curiosity. Thanks
Any guestimation how long you can set your iron on a battery before it decides to come on glued and you end up with shrapnel in your face?
Haha, umm I would say don't put the iron on the battery for more than 15 seconds.
I would run the soldering iron at a hotter temperature since you're soldering onto a rather large mass and a hotter temp will hopefully help with getting the solder onto the battery terminals faster.
Giving the ends a quick sand may also help with adhesion.
how did you reset the battery BMS? since once it detects a bad battery even if you change them for brand new high cap batteries the bms will still tell the vacuum that the battery is bad
Mhm. The same security system place with laptop batteries. 😏😞
Nice, planning to do this, better order some nickel strips.
I tried to order a replacement pack but Dyson discontinued my unit (DC30 - Pack rating is 14.8V 1300mAh 20Wh. I noticed you didn't show or say what the voltage of each of the old cells was. I just opened mine after it had been on charge and I'm getting 4.12v/cell. It's a 4 cell pack and it's total is 16.46 V.The vac runs for about 5 secs for 4 or 5 cycles then dies. I'm wondering if the batteries are actually bad or if it's the BMS. Think it's worth ordering the new cells?
18650 cells have a nominal voltage of 3.7V, and are around 4.2V when fully charged. I bought a 3rd party battery pack that started only running about 5 seconds and then died. I have a feeling it's the battery cells, but haven't gotten around to testing it.
If you can't find a Dyson OEM replacement, ordering new cells maybe the way to go otherwise you maybe going through quite a few 3rd party battery packs until you find one that works as well as an OEM one.
@@mistahcheng Hi Alex, Thanks for this. After I took the readings I figured I'd try snapping the pack back together, run them down in the vac and take another voltage reading at the cells. It would not run for even a second. Dead yet the cells are still at 4V. I can't see any signs that I hit the BMS board during disassembly. So I gave up and ordered a Shark cordless on Amazon for less than half the cost of the least expensive Dyson. It's not as powerful but this one I only needed for vacuuming up cat litter that gets track out of the box so the Shark works fine.
I have a more recent Dyson with a power brush that I only use to vacuum the carpeting on the stairs. The battery for it just died too but Dyson says it will be back in stock in a few weeks. The only place we have carpeting is the stairs. 2 Roombas do the rest of the house. We also have central vac to fall back on.
I think I'm done with Dyson. They work great but they do not have the longevity and support life they should for the cost so they are kind of a rip off and someone is getting rich from it.
Thank You :)
Panasonic having lower discharge rate than sony, did it have any problems running the vacuum?
Correct, and so far the vacuum cleaner and battery seems are still working fine. I only had those Panasonics with me at that time, so if you feel more comfortable using let's say the Sony VTC4s, feel free to use those instead.
so vacuum worked ok after?I have some Samsung 25r cells off my ebike.that was diy battery.should be ok for vacuum
Yeah, the vacuum still works. As I mentioned in the video, it's better to use high discharge batteries, but in a pinch it will work.
I got my hands on another V6 that seems to be having a battery issue, but appears to be a BMS. However, since I though the cells were bad, I replaced them with some used Samsung 25/26 batteries from laptop batteries, so I'll post a video on replacing the BMS and how the vacuum works with some used Samsung 25/26 batteries.
Thanks man, I'm going to just bite the bullet and buy one!
I have completed the same repair with VTC5 fully (pre)charged cells, with 24.6v measured at the total battery terminals and that fixe didn't work.
Edit : it flash blue once and then green once when pressing the grey little switch (without the battery fitted back in). I do have a 24.6v output from all batteries and wonder if the BMS detects them as being with too high voltage ??? I did charge all the new cells before fitting them in. If any of you have any ideas please let me know ! thanks
Edit : I have plugged in a driller motor directly to the 6 cells and discharged them to 20.15 in load and 21.60 without load. (it took about 20min). Then the BMS appears to behave differently and no longer shows the green light after the blue light when pressing the switch button. It is currently charging as we speak but when putting back in the battery into the hoover it is now blinking blue and not red so I have good hopes. I'll come back here after to confirm if that has fixed the issue encountered.
Edit 2 : The issue has been addressed after a full (dyson) charge which took about 3 hours.. So it looks like the BMS requires to have 18650 cells emptied before it can be charged again. It probably has a form of build in watt meter that detect cells that were previously charged. Please give it a shot if you believe your BMS is bricked.
@@ClemOnShow Good to know, thanks for the update !
How do you get rid of the 32x flashing red error? Even after changing all batteries it still gives a flashing 32x red error...
If I am not mistaken, it sounds like the battery has a bad BMS. The only way to fix it is to replace the BMS, but I tried with another battery, and received a bad BMS, gave up and bought a new battery. I hope this helps !
No need to replace BMS, there is a way to reset the red light, see here: th-cam.com/video/ENY8xcczowk/w-d-xo.html Balance or change the cells, then reset the red light.
Did you work out the ohms law fir how many amps you're pulling off these batteries? Because 3400mah 18650s will be very low amp
I did not, but run time so far has been good.
@@mistahcheng you don’t understand
Can you buy replacement batteries for Dyson? I have about 4 dead Dysons and they don't seem to sell them.
yes, on Amazon. I'll take the old Dyson's if you don't want to go that route, I'm working on a science project using old Dysons.
after long time use how about the batt-pack? can the cells endure continuous high current? maybe about 15 amp at full power. by the way sorry for my insufficient english.
I don't think the vacuum has been used long enough during a session to run out of battery which is a good thing, but sorry, I don't know the runtime of the battery. I'll try and get this number for you at some point. The cells seems to be fine so far, but as far as I know, it hasn't been run on max mode. I'll update the post with run time as well as any issues that come up. However, if you are more comfortable using the original VTC4 batteries, feel free to !
thank you. i will follow post updates.
This video taught me not to bother replacing the cells 😅😅 too hard. I prefer to repair things but geez 2.5 hours is a bit of time to spend on batteries
Hi Alex. When I check the batteries, one of them showed 12.5v while all others were 3.5v. What could be wrong?
One is working the others are fked replace them all.
@@greggrimer1428 It was actually the other way around. Replaced the 12.5v one and I got it working now.
Can you not just add the new cells in parallel ??
I am planning to just add the extra cells to the existing cells in parallel. Can't find a video, is it possible ??
Bonjour
Ceci n est pas une batterie originale ,.en tout cas en ce qui concerne la BMS
La véritable batterie Dyson a une BMS qui se bloque lors qu il y a un problème sur la batterie et il est impossible de restaurer la BMS même après réparation de la panne
Tout à fait! Comme on doit déconnecter le BMS pour changer les accus, il ne repart pas après reconnexion (led clignote rouge). Une solution (fastidieuse) est de connecter d'abord le BMS à une autre source 24V pour le "tenir vivant" avant de déconnecter les accus fatigués pour les changer. Mais à condition que le BMS ne clignote pas déjà rouge avant ouverture. Led rouge = blocage définitif.
Hello there, I don't know if you d be able to read this.
Could it be possible for you or any of the commentor to share a link or specify the compatible battery cells, please.
These should be a direct replacement for what is currently in there right now: www.orbtronic.com/vtc5-18650-battery-imr-2600mah-us18650vtc5
what panasonic batteries did you use ? you said it too fast thank you
I used panasonic ncr18650 batteries but they're not meant to be used in high discharge applications like a vacuum cleaner. The only reason I used then is because I already had them sitting around.
I'm not convinced these cells needed replacing. I've just had the same issue with a similar pack (pack refuses to charge), when I opened it up, the cells had gone out of balance, once I balanced the cells with a DC power supply, the pack was good as new. I just alligator clipped onto the tabs at the end of each cell. Over 1900mAh was going into the "dead" cells so even the bad cells had lots of capacity left; it's just the the BMS wasn't balancing the cells properly.
That is possible. The cells measured out to 24V for me, but would only run for a minute, and it seemed like it would charge fine, but didn't have enough capacity to run.
Although the BMS is supposed to be balancing these batteries, my guess is that maybe the cells may be so far out of balance the BMS is kicking in some kind of protection mode.
Thanks for sharing your findings !
If one of the cells is bad, no amount of cell balancing is going to help in the long run. The BMS probably keeps a close eye on each cell voltage as it's being used, and if one starts to under-perform, then it stops. Otherwise, even though the pack may still supply a decent amount of power, the weakest performing cell will be damaged more each charge/discharge cycle.
I have not opened my Dyson V6 yet. However, by looking at your video clip.
I wonder instead of welding directly to the battery. The factory should use the springs inside the battery compartment in order to connect the battery as series and if they want to charge (balance) individual battery, they can hardwire cables directly to every single battery from the module.
No doubts about it. They don't want people to repair the battery as the way they sealed the battery compartment.
Agreed, but most lithium ion batteries use the same type of battery strips more than likely due to the current that passes through the batteries. Some are even designed to act kind of like a fuse in case something goes wrong. My guess is that either the springs can't handle the current needed or doesn't make good contact. It would have been nice of it was easier to replace them though !
@@mistahcheng Agreed with the high current..... However, instead of using spring. It can be used as a metal strip (bar acts as a bridge inside the cover... what do you reckon? By the way, there must be a better way. But then that can not sell the replacement battery or new Dyson model. LOL !!!
Anyway, thanks for all your works.
@@digicabtechI'm sure there's a better way, but I guess for them at what cost haha. I definitely wish that the battery cells are easier to replace. And no problem, I hope you enjoyed the video.
They don’t want you to do this, why do you think that they don’t design their products where you can swap out battery easily like power tools. They want you to buy the latest model with bigger cells.
@@Hanglin168 I mean, they sell new battery units. With premium. New cell costs few dollars. New pack 100 dollars. It's the modern inkjet.
Interesting video. I also found Dyson V6 that is not charging. Will try to open the battery and check the cells following your example. Thank you.
P.S. Your music is much too loud compared to speaking parts, and quite annoying. Otherwise thank you for usefull tip.
Hopefully, it's just a bad 18650 cell. Sorry about the loud music, and thanks for the feedback ! I've been working on the volume of some of the newer videos, and fingers crossed, the videos are getting better.
Whats the tune called? Shazammed it to no avail. Great vid BTW.
Not sure which one you liked, but they're all in the post description, and thanks !
Thanks, very helpful video. Also refreshing to hear nice tunes as backing music instead of the usual youtube crap
My vote for favorite "backing music" is none at all, especially in a video where both voice and video are of excellent quality. The world will survive momentary absences of noise.
The "music" was very annoying. I appreciate the video, though.
Do we need to consider the current? When replace new cells?
Are you asking about the increase in capacity ? If so, no since the BMS charges the battery up until it reaches a certain voltage. The only downside to that is it would take longer to charge up due to the increased capacity.
Yes of course. High capacity 3500mAh cells are not appropriate. Best use very high drain cells only, max 2500mAh.
Enjoy your flashing red light after all this work. Notice he didn’t show it working after…. The BMS board is made so you cannot swap out the cells. It recognizes this, and fails by design.
The same if you want to try to change dead 18650 batteries inside a laptop battery. 🤔😕😞
The board will self destruct only when the correct disconnection and reconnection sequence of the supply and balance wires is not followed.
Good video. However it is not a good idea to use any acid flux (like plumbing type) for electronic soldering. Connections corrode under electric galvanic effect. For these applications rosin based flux used exclusively.
You would be better off with a battery spot welder . You can pick them up of the net quite cheap. As battery's are quite hard to solder as the solder won't hold .. so the cheap sopt welder instant arks the metals together .. nice video though I get to see what the battery looks like before I take it to bits 😀
Back when I soldered to cells, they held quite well. The nickel strips on even the best OEM spot welds are far easier to remove than my old soldering joints. That said, only use a spot welder and would never solder directly to a battery again, especially after one failed a few days after building it.
I built a diy spot welder as they were well over $200 USD for even the cheapest welder years ago when I wanted one. I ended up build my own for much cheaper and it functions better than many on the market. It was used using welding leads, free microwave transformer, arduino with LCD and selector knob (timer and double pulse), old 5v phone charger, wiring and micro switches from the microwave, very little home depot parts and lots of 3d printing. It has been used to replace many things like shaver batteries, and even used it to build my 13s10p (130 cell) ebike battery.
Don't mind me. I'm just here for the background music. Lol
Great video otherwise :-)
1.when I used screw driver same way I damaged the cells side plastic cover and made a short so just very carefully next time. 2..if u change the cells without add dummy battery before removing cells the board can stop working I guess and u wont be able to use it untill u firmware update it :/
You did not show the battery and BMS working, or powering the vacuum after the battery replacement. I did the same thing and found the BMS go from perfectly working to red blinking light of death. W/o power the BMS shuts itself down even if proper voltage is subsequently applied to it. I’ve searched high and low to see if anyone has figured out how to reset it, but no lock. If indeed yours works, I sure would like to know.
Thanks
I was wondering this; in some laptop batteries there's a fuse that will trip if power is disconnected from the BMS to prevent these kinds of repairs.
I read that some of the bms in these batteries brick when voltage drops to 0. I didn't have the vacuum cleaner with me, so I wasn't able to record it working, but it has been used since the battery has been replaced and it's working fine. Did you make sure the battery was fully charged before installing it back into the vacuum cleaner ?
@@adamnash2009 that may be what's happening to Garo's BMS. Luckily, mine worked fine after replacing the batteries. From what I have seen online, it looks like there's no way to fix or reset the BMS after it has "bricked" itself.
Dude , got the same shitty problem just buy a freaking from ali express and replace it , i bought 2 , for 10 usd
I saw a TH-cam video highlighting this .. goes something like this .. replacing Dyson V6 battery with poor result .. the technician failed to reset the BMS
Was it a success ?
So did it work? How is it working months later?
Yes, it did, and it's still working. I've been told run time is over 30 minutes.
@@mistahcheng thanks!!
It didn't work in my case. Replaced damaged battaries, but still red led flashing. My guess is BMS is locked... waste of time.
The concern with higher mAh batteries is they have lower amp limitations. 3500 mAh can handle around 15amps 2500 mAh batteries are usually 20 amps. If you replace with a weaker amperage battery, and aren't sure the usage, you risk explosion.
That’s not the fault of 3500mah cells. It’s the quality of the cell. Pay cheap prices, get low amps.
@@randycollens2681 quality is important but it's a matter of physics. In order to fit more capacity something has to give.
@@TheSkepticSkwerl this. Cells are either optimised for capacity or for power output, not both. You can have 30A batteries or 3500 mAh ones, but not 30A 3500 mAh ones.
You can if you change to 21700 cells, that have both more capacity and power output, but are physically larger and won't fit without changing the design of the battery assembly.
@@randycollens2681 Nope, TheSkepticSkwerl is right: high-capacity cells are usually limited to 2-3 times Inominal as discharge rate, while lower-capacity devices easily do 4-6 times Inom, with slightly lower capacities easily reaching 10-times Inominal as allowed discharge rate.
They usually also allow for high charge rates if air-cooled, something high-capacity cells also can't handle.
You likely don't risk an explosion, just a safety-system cutting off the cells from the outside world because the voltage sags too quickly. The cells can heat up quite a bit, but I doubt you will get to a point it will become problematic: 60 degree is the limit by JEITA standard if I remember it right from my own recell-adventures with rather advanced fuel gauges (BQ20Z65, yes, the type of safetysystem that requires cracking security keys and needs to be reset in order to even accept new cells)
i would use more flux ....waaaaaay too litle,it needs to drip between the +and minus realy thick layer!!
I have voltage on each cell about 4.1V, but I have no voltage out the main lugs. How is that even possible?
Same. 😕
@@davidbolha I figured it out actually. There is a magnetic switch on the back of the board. Bring a magnet close and it fires right up!
@@rogue277 Me too ! I saw this video: th-cam.com/video/dwyA5rBjncg/w-d-xo.html 😉
After watching this I'm going for the Ebay £11,99 with 10 years warranty .
Dobrá prasárna to pájení...
use old credit cards to open, will be less damage to shell
Good idea, but it's pretty hard getting something thicker than a flat head in there.
@@mistahcheng its possible, just cut it in half (by longer side) and start from bottom, shell very soft and easy expand, so you can easy get it into then under at pin places, did that already then fix my wife dyson 8 :)
To remove tabs off the battery ,you can precisely drill the spot welds just through the top tab only ,then the tabs will come off more cleanly.
Go ahead if you like destroying cells
Careful if you don't want to set off the CID... 🤔😨
A little heads up on the spring would have been nice before prying the housing apart. Long gone now.
Rule number one: Never ever solder batteries!
if u do it quick and u qualified enough there is nothing to worry about.
I'm betting the BMS does not balance the cells so this is what happens after many charge cycles, one cell is bound to be less than others and the entire BMS cuts current both ways. Stupid design. I think adding inline balancer will remedy this but not without needing additional space. I just used a variable DC PSU to manually balance old cells back to 3.1v with 0.15A cutoff, I'll check in the morning to see if any cells differ in voltage otherwise just pop the thing back in and call it a day.
That’s what I thought too. Unfortunately I already got the blinking red light of death on my battery before I looked into it so I can’t just balance mine now.
you mangled that case
That music .... Whyyyyyy?
sounds like he sped the music up to get around the copyright detector.
bro you might be having a shit ton of guest coming over but its a public holiday and there's mess everywhere and your DYSON has died, well a lot of use have 18650s now days then this video could save you bacon, but like you said otherwise just buy the whole thing which funny enough cost less than the cost of 8 semi decent 18650s
DANGER! You used the WRONG CELLS for this! The original Sony VTC4 are a "power tool" cell rated for 30 Amps while the Panasonic NCR18650B that you used as replacement are a "laptop" cell rated for only 4.9 Amps maximum current draw.
The Dyson V6 uses a 350W motor, so that means it draws about 350W divided by 21.6V = 16.2 AMPS.
So, when you run the vacuum at full power you are pulling almost 3 times the maximum current that your battery cells are rated for. That's going to kill those expensive batteries very very quickly, and might even cause internal damage that lead to fire etc.
Never do "upgrades" like this!
I did mention in the video that the cells aren't designed for high current discharge, and these cells are actually the same ones used in Teslas, not laptops.
This was more or a fix than an upgrade since the original VTC4 batteries were basically toast, and these were the cells I happened to have at that time.
Also, scooters have a 350W motor and use "normal' cells without issues, and don't forget there's a BMS that will kill power if the cells exceed a certain temperature.
However, yes it's best practice to use batteries that can sustain higher current draw such as the original VTC4 batteries to be on the safe side.
@@mistahcheng - scooters can use low amperage cells because they run lots of them in parallel. Same with cars like Tesla... they have multiple cells to share the motor load. In the case of the Dyson, all the motor amps are carried by one cell, so it should be rated accordingly.
My comments are to warn others that they need to use cells rated at least 20A continuous if they want the replacement pack to last.
@John Coops - I think your mathematics is not 100% correct. The batteries are 2100mAh. So if the Dyson runs 20min there is a current of 6,3A. In max-mode 6min - 21A. So you are right, to chosse a battery with a high max. discharge current. If not, it is better to not use the max-mode. thx
@@hoemal69 - Yes, I deliberately simplified the mathematics to make it more suitable as a TH-cam comment, which was primarily to point out the fundamental error they've made. I will explain in more (but not full) detail - I broke it into spaced paragraphs below to make it more readable.
. . .
The motor used in the V6 is rated is 350W, but that might be at average battery voltage (6x3.6V=21.6V so 16.2A) or it might be at max cell voltage (6x4.15=24.9V so 14A). Your guess was 20A - but no matter what, high speed results in a massive and UNSAFE amount of OVER-CURRENT to draw from a cell rated only 4.9A.
. . .
Firstly, a DC motor doesn't draw any specific or consistent Amperage - the current (and power) decreases as voltage drops (battery runs down), yet current increases with load (vacuum nozzle or filters become blocked). So unless both voltage and load remain constant, Dyson's (optimistic) 20 mins average run time cannot be used to calculate the amount of current drawn anyway.
. . .
Furthermore, the Sony VTC4 battery is rated 2100mAh but that's at 0.2C, and it''s rated 2035mAh at 10A and achieves less than 2000mAh at 20A drawn. The cell voltage drops from 4.15 as well, and both affect your "run time to amps" calculations, however we don't know the Dyson's charge or cutoff voltages, nor the profile of actual current drawn, so everything we calculate is a guess and our mathematics doesn't really matter much!
. . .
Anyway, let's use YOUR guesstimate of low speed (2100mAh for 20 mins = 6.3A). The Panasonic NCR18650B that were used in this video are rated for 4.9A MAXIMUM. Therefore even on low power it's drawing 28.5% above rating for 20 minutes. However, it's worse because that's the average current over that 20 minutes. The maximum current might be 10%, 20% or even greater!
. . .
The Panasonic NCR18650B used here are a high-priced quality "ICR" cell with max current of 4.9A. Viewers might choose lower-cost cells or even use used cells from laptop packs, in which case the over-current (even on low speed) would be far worse. I've just harvested a heap of cells from cheap power tools and hand vacuums (Hoover, Electrolux, Black and Decker) and those use cheapo Chinese cells (eg: Highstar) that are only rated 10A Maximum.
. . .
Now, if cheaper cells than the Sony VT4 would have worked, you can be sure that Dyson would have used them to save $$. Even the Sony's have a very hard life in the V6 and only last a couple of years. So based on that alone, the best strategy is to put even better cells in there to try and improve the situation.
...
I am considering using a cheap chinese BMS but also installing a balance charge socket,, so that the pack can be charged using a hobby charger every so often (or always). Cheers!
@@johncoops6897 AMEN! The above advice will save many wasted hours, dollars, and possibly lives that might have been lost in house fires. Hopefully Dyson used a quality BMS in their packs to simply shut down the improper lipo cells used before the start of thermal runaway.
Why would you go through all this. Just buy a replacement
battery on amazon for 25 bucks.
OR Dyson could've designed it so that users can easily replace 18650 batteries with a door? OH WAIT, then you wouldn't buy replacement batteries from them for US$200. Dyson is the worst. Mine died after 1 year right after warranty expires. It's no coincidence that consumer reports have removed all dysons from their recommended list
Yes. It is criminal.
Ready made replacement packs are cheaper than it costs just to buy new 18650 cells.
Yes, they are cheaper and I mentioned that this isn't for your average person to do. However, you don't know what battery cells you're getting and the one I purchased stop working after a month or so.
@@mistahcheng You're right there, Its a witch to open that battery up to get at the cells. I ended up throwing mine at the ground really hard cursing the world and the seven seas. I ended up giving up as I didn't have time. The new pack from Amazon does seem to give me about 5 minutes or so of High power and the vacuum suction is crazy high, much higher than on stock batteries making me think these batteries have a higher C rating.
Anyone can salvage working 18650s from old laptops.
The vacuum’s are great however their batteries are JUNK
Use a spot welder they are cheap enough on ebay- the way your soldering can damage or shorten the life of the Lithium batteries
No it doesn’t harm them unless you apply the iron for a long time.
Or get a kWeld or Malectrics. 😉
How did the author unlock the controller? Fake!
😂that a lots of works to save $35-40.And 😢all electronic devices today are planning for no solutions to fixed.100% manufacturers😢also they’ll glues these things togetherness ,fitting them tightly or uses torts screws on them.😅if electronic devices repairing is your hobbies or working in the industries.This works not worthwhile to repairing these things.
Nope!
Wow this is so horrible ... This is how they make fixing these impractical ... :(
Agreed, I'm guessing because they don't want you to fix it, and it probably saves on manufacturing costs.
1000$ hospital bill after cuting your hand off useing a sharp onife please dont due this at home.
Thanks a lot but would've been better without this music
Please please lose the damn annoying music
The video would have been ok except for the stupid annoying music... Thumbs down
This video is useless. It doesnt say anything about resetting the BOARD!!!! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 DONT WASTE TIME replacing the cells in vain. Its like with laptops, u do replace the cells but the board is locked!!!