EEVblog
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2019
- Rohde & Schwarz were offended at the quality of the power supplies in the EEVblog lab, so sent in some "real" lab power supplies!
Unboxing and first look at the Rohde & Schwarz HMP4040, HMP2020, and NGE103 programmable lab power supplies.
Comparisons with other brand PSU's: There are some comparisons with other brand PSUs:
www.rohde-schw...
www.rohde-schw...
www.rohde-schw...
Teardown video: • EEVblog #1174 - Rohde ...
Forum: www.eevblog.com...
Bitcoin Donations: 38y7DE8HEHNj8fGDtUr4PkCn9nWxiorvvy
Litecoin: ML7oQokTwB38bgzzjLDbRV97HKAHuwRfHA
Ethereum: 0x11AceA38DCA9DbFfB4F35f3F746af65F9dED28ce
EEVblog Main Web Site: www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: / eevblog2
Support the EEVblog through Patreon!
/ eevblog
AliExpress Affiliate: s.click.aliexpr...
Buy anything through that link and Dave gets a commission at no cost to you.
Stuff I recommend:
kit.com/EEVblog/
Donate With Bitcoin & Other Crypto Currencies!
www.eevblog.co...
T-Shirts: teespring.com/s...
Likecoin - Coins for Likes: likecoin.pro/@...
#RohdeSchwarz #PowerSupply - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
2430$ for HMP4040 and what you get back is actually VERY good price. Holly shit. I wish I would knew about it, because it would literally replace 3 or 4 other power supplies I have.
Does seem good value. There are some comparisons with other brand PSUs:
www.rohde-schwarz.com/brochure-datasheet/hmp/
@@EEVblog Damn, I live like 10 min by foot from R&S and they don't send me stuff :D
Wago 215-311 4mm spring-clamp plugs are a good cure for PSUs with no binding posts
Woah that is awesome!
The color coding is of European style and standardized. The long posts are there to avoid an accidental contact with wires. The remaining question is, how fast the supplies are regulating and how much noise can be measured. The is especially important for automated testing. Since all of three them can be controlled by the LXI interface a it would be neat to control them via pyVISA instead of using Labview which is for casual usage too expensive.
Blue because it's minus. Not common. Not ground. Minus. To emphasize it's galvanic isolation.
Yes, makes sense. Ground would be green/yellow.
Black is minus.
Blue is phase 3. And I use blue for polarity insensitive leads, like load resistors. Metrix uses it for current.
@@johnalexander2349 Some -48 VDC telco installations I have seen use red for -48 and blue for "return".
Most telco installations use blue for pair 1. My point is that blue is used for so many things, and so seldom used for "minus" that it just adds confusion. I think that every single DC device I've opened uses black for "minus". Why change now?
If it's country specific, then they should change it before shipping weirdo colours to Australia (or South Africa).
EARTH would be green/yellow. Ground is different.
whe you power up the NGE100 (time=13:10) the usb port moves inwards...sketchy
It's a feature.
Great observation! And at 18:37 you can also see that the screen is not of the best quality.
Change in lighting,it doesn’t move lol
@@rob28803 I went back and checked that again. I absolutely dispute that it doesn't move. It moves for sure.
These license options… You paid 3000$ for a device, nice. It has all these nice features. It's in there, just pay us more.
They make great products, but I hope that the strategy to charge extra for connectivity features (about 200€ for the WiFi License Key) will change at some point.
They all do it. It really sucks. Just an easy money grab. Wonder if there is a crack for it like the Rigol ones. I have all the options on my scope and power supply :)
@@chris746568462 Well, considering that those things are not exactly mass product(in a sense that their volumes are quite low compared to your everyday tech) and since volumes are not tied to the cost of engendering costs they gotta keep the costs low somehow. Low-end users don't really care all that much about misc capabilities, it can be a nice touch, but it's not a deal breaker. High-end users mostly are not that picky about price(since most of the high end users are companies), therefore will go for a higher price just to get quality of life improvements. At least that's how i see that.
I feel a little underwhelmed by these supplies. On the 4040 they appear to have room for small print to show set points and if the device is in CC or CV mode. instead of doing that on the display they are using different colour on the buttons to indicate the mode. I don't like that idea. I think it would be too easy to get the wrong limit mode. I'm also not overly impressed by the fact that the supplies aren't capable of full voltage and current output on the channels. It doesn't seem to allow full ouptut on one channel and derate when you start drawing power from other channels The front panel of the NGE says 0-32V at up to 3A. If you look more closely at the front panel it says a maximum of 32 watts per channel. If you need 3A out you can only get it at about 11V. Still, good on R&S for supplying you the supplies. I'm sure they will find a use despite some of their design limits/choices.
Having a power limit per channel is normal, the transformer can only supply so much power for a given size. I'd rather have a supply that is capable of 10A at lower voltages only than say a 5A supply that only does 5A all the way to 32V. Derating like this is pretty normal.
With the 4 channels of the 4040 you can easily use them in parallel or series to reach the full power and/or higher voltages. There is always a tradeoff, and this one offers enough versatility for a lot of use cases. e.g. paralleling all 4 channels to charge 8 40Ah LiFePO4 cells in parallel to insure a balanced initial charge. Or 2 in series together with the arb to simulate a 54V PoE source, etc.
@@EEVblog Derating is pretty common. It is more about how they derate. The limit on some supplies is based on the sum of the power being supplied by all the channels in operation. Some supplies, like the ones in this video, have a per channel limit. It is a trap for young players if they don't pay proper attention to the full specs for a supply. The mention of 32V and 3A on the front panel and could mislead someone in to thinking that one channel could supply 2A to their circuit which operates at 20V.
"Verify Power Line setting and Fuse" :-)
They know Dave...
The 1st signature on the cal certificate on the 1st power supply looks more like a scope trace than a signature?
I thought that too!
Wow! I now have an HMP4040 at work, a great power supply!
Especially like the FUSE function, it turns off the entire group of channels at once if there are problems on one, it saved the boards more than once!
I'm sorry...
But seeing some "software" add-ons on systems at this price (more than 500$) is totally unjustified... Every brands have done this in 20XX... But please what is the engineering cost of this ? It's just a world trade decision and no more...
I guess that's the world we live now 😕
Selling expensive options makes the base model cheaper for everyone. It's not as black and white as it seems.
Awesome supplies. Looking forward to the tear-down. Gut gespieltes Rohde & Schwarz.
The video is up.
Blue stands for 'Not grounded Negative‘
Black can be misleading. With blue you be sure.
The user interface is a bit confusing. We have one of the larger supplies that comes in for calibration, and it took a while to figure out the most efficient way to run through the calibration using the manual controls.
I'm sure they are well engineered and great built quality and all but honestly I feel like the user interfaces are lacking compared to offerings from AIM TTI (QL355, MX100). And even Siglent and Rigol seem to be able to make better use of the screen real estate. Also had a peek into the datasheet for the NGE's: ripple typ. < 1.5 mV (RMS)
and < 20 mV (peak-to-peak) (meas.). Seems high-ish.
Those are probably very conservative specifications. The new Keysight supplies also have much better ripple than their specifications suggest.
"Imaging having a big stack of these on your bench, wouldn't you kill for that" ....literary puts up a stack of R&S PSUs seconds later :|
I don't make enough in a year to pay for that stack, xD
Oh vey, Rohde&Schwarz.. If you read this, i'm lacking of lab power supplies too.
If you don't mind.. ;) i could offer you 0 viewers
Man, I'll help a brother out. I'll give you a view...
If you give me a new power supply, nobody would ever see it again.
@@manosif May I join in? We could have 2 views on each video then!
I'm afraid 2 views won't be enough, but keep collecting followers...
@@Rohde-Schwarz I already thought so ;)
Wow, nice gift! $5,000 bucks US.
nothing in life is free ;)
Doesn’t cost *them* 5 grand, though!
@@km5405 all it cost R&S for some great advertising to their target audience was 3 units, and all it cost Dave for 3 units was a couple of good honest review videos.
Yeah, I'll bet the good publicity that R&S get from this is FAR more valuable than the cost of the equipment. Not to say that the R&S folks aren't kind and good people by nature (they probably are) but in pure economic terms, doing something like this is a win for R&S.
And all I have is this lousy $3 buck converter and a battery pack.
Would you say that it is a three buck buck converter?
But what does it turn the 3 bucks into?
For Rohde&Schwarz, the different colors (white=Set/off, green=CV,red=CC) is quite usual. Sometimes on the display, sometimes on the channel keys or LEDS.
Also the blue color for the negative output terminal is really common, cause it's a floating output. Black is more used for COM connection.
Wow Dave beautiful addition to the lab! Big smiles! :-)
I always read the manual first.
People not doing that are annoying.
If all else fails.... read the destructions. :D
You're shitting me. They didn't send you the ones with all the options? It wouldn't have cost them any more to enable the Wi-Fi. Why do the 2020 & 4040 have those physical power switches rather than one like the smaller supply has?
I love that HMP supplies. At work we use the HMP 2030 supply since it was released and last year we ordered the HMP4040. It's easy to use and performs quite well
Ever had an issue with any of the channels? Mine shows channel 1 -0.500v and when I enable the channel it quickly goes to 0 on the display with no change in the -0.500v output. Any ideas what it can be wrong?
dont turn it on! Take it apart!
If anyone else also waited to see Dave stacking the HMP PSUs it happens at 26:00
Wow, all outputs on the 4040 have sense lines. Very nice!
4020 too, all in that series have it. Either direct from the from panel, or external.
@@EEVblog Very, very, tempting. Is it my birthday yet ? :-)
@@EEVblog I bought the 4040. Just got dropped off by UPS. Let R&S know that an impression on one of your videos garnered them a sale. I do have other R&S gear, though.
@@vincei4252 2 years later, how is it? :)
@@southerncharity7928 Still working great. If there's anything to complain about it's the almost $400 of the ethernet/USB card. Quite outrageous for something that should have been built in day one but whatcha gonna do.
HOLY SHIT!!!!! Big up to R&S for stepping up to the plate and doing what they did!! The new lab should be outfitted with top gear and props to them for stepping in and helping out. Great to see companies jumping in and doing things like that. So many people out here benefit from these videos and while this is nothing to sneeze at (those PSU's are NOT cheap!!!). Its great marketing for them but it's also making sure that great educational content is hitting the net by making sure the best gear is being used. Just my opinion though.
The calibration of new equipment depends upon the user's industry and regulatory authorities involved. It is very common for Aviation rules to require local calibration of newly acquired equipment.
The blue terminals are in germany a thing, for laboratory stuff.
it's a thing in europe not only germany.
That was a seriously fun video! Very jealous! A side by side comparison between those beauties and the cheaper power supplies you can get would be nice. Showing how to use remote control would be helpful - what is needed to do it, how do you control the power supply and what would be some of the applications of it. Thx!
I have had both an HMP2030 and an HMP4040 for several years. 2 channels of the HMP2030 are broken and BER. I replaced FETs and the controller in the switched pre-regulator which made them work for a month then they broke again. The HMP4040 is working fine, although the USB VCP serial port sometimes disappears until I reboot the PC. Driver problem probably. A nuisance since I often work remotely.
What's the warranty?
I assume the standard EU warranty so 1y/2y but the unit broke past that. Quoted repair cost was 2/3 of new :-(
Rohde & Schwarz warranty usually is 3 years, at least in EU.
@@niblismusic783 You're right, it's 3 years. My 2030 was older at the point of failure.
I’m so jealous, have a word with R&S please and tell them I need to replace my Korad supply with a decent one... I recken I could manage to cobble together a video or two.. Good on R&S for being so generous and sending you some cool power supplies.
He only getting it so they get free advertising. Remember money attracts money. Skip skip nothing to watch here. Follow up video worth a watch
well...daves stories about how system integrated stuff generally works is decently interesting. the teardown is the real bobby dazzler though.
I conclude that the length of the binding posts is not only due to the need of the shrouded banana plugs. It is also due to the wire hole.
Eons ago, I got curious about the possible benefit of black anodized heat sinks. I thought that would implement radiative dissipation. And indeed that does, but near room temperature rather feebly. The radiation is dependent on absolute temperature of heat sink (kelvins) to 4th power minus opposing surface absolute temperature to 4th power. When both items are not radically different, or both are nearly ambient temperature, even the 4th powers are not so different. You start seeing effect when heat sink gets near 100 degrees C and the radiation counterpart is a wall at 25 degrees.
But here comes another issue. The heat sink typically is ribbed. That means the effective radiating surface area has been folded down to maybe 1/10. So, convective dissipation even without a fan stays effective, while radiative power was cut down. Free convection is proportional to about temperature difference raised to power 1.25. Fan assisted convection is many times more.
After that exercise, I have never worried about the heat sinks not being black any more.
It is actually very common here in europe to have blue instead of black for the output color
Nice! I was giving a thought and I'm going to make an effort and accept all of those low-quality PS to my very small lab... I know... I know... it would be hard but I'm willing to do it... take one for the team!
Blue, because we here in Germany use blue wires for indicating a GND or Neutral.
NGE1xx is a low voltage power supply if you consider each channel separately, but you have 3 of them, so you can get to about 95V in series. Anything over 60V is considered high enough to require safety considerations. This would explain the shrouded posts and the missing metal plates, which I find quite a nice BTW.
my back up scope is a rohde and schwartz, driving home one day i drove past a bungalow with loads of antennas up, on the top of the rubbish bin was a scope, i stopped and the guy was in the garden so i asked if i could take it, he said yes but it wont work.
when i got home i saw it was a 2 channel r&s but a high end one, the screen was cracked it turned on but the screen was unreadable, i looked on the back and it had a vga port it looked blocked off but it was just a cover plate, i took it off and a plug was there so i plugged in a monitor and it worked, so i bought a cheap 7" vga screen and use that with it, its a way better unit than my rigol but the rigol is 4 Channel and can be moved around, with the separate screen the r&s is better set up on a bench, like i said as a back up.
Funfact: Mr. Rohde & Mr. Schwarz were both ham radio operators :-)
And son old Mr Rohde , N1UL Ulrich Rohde is too :)
you'd think if they're sending these units out for review they'd go ahead and set them up fully-optioned. It costs them nothing extra and allows the reviewer to get a better impression of what the device is truly capable of. Maybe it's to not give the impression that the base configuration includes those options I guess.
I like R&S gear and love my RTB2K and HMC8012, but when I needed a beefy power supply, I found that TTi offered a better value - my MX180T can combine 2 of the 3 outputs internally to deliver 15V/20A or 30V/12A. It is as good (IMHO) a professional quality build with all the features and controls that you would expect and still "only" about $1K. Now, if R&S insists in sending me a couple of these to check, I could change my mind.
They have a comparison document with the TTi scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/HMP_vs_Aim-TTi_QL355TP_Comp_Sheet_5215-5959-32.pdf
Yes, and they picked a model that would not compare very well. All is fair in Love and Marketing Brochures ;-)
Why I know I have issues? Because the crooked power button bugged me the whole time.
Dave, your other "crap" power supplies are still way better than the ones I have 🤣😂
And i am over here using LM317 and LM337 for a 20v-0-20v 1 amp supply...
Still trying to score a good supply on E bay or craigslist..
Their cheapest power supply is twice as expensive as my whole bench setup. Well, most of my stuff was either given to me or built myself, the most pricy thing being a $200 TV7 tube tester but still, this video puts a big small of my face.
Please make a video about what's inside, I'm really curious about the big expensive HMP4040 linear power supply.
See the linked teardown video
The popsicle power supply 🤣. I have some Hameg late 80’s early 90’s bench gear. Happy with it 😎
'Hinged Package' ... It's just the way they manufacture it surely? Looks like they just cut the hole out and fold it over to make a pre-attached end? Would it help in transit? Or hinder?
Blue is standard (black aswell) for banana connectors in europe. Dont worry we dont use blue wires for negative dc :)
Nice job R&S - lucky chap Dave. A tear down and review would be great.
Teardown video was release just after this one.
Not a chance. I'm gonna keep buying the old HP power supplies and spending $120 to recap them.
So far out of my budget it hurts a little, but amazingly capable instruments. I'd love the ENet interface, but it's amazing to see IEEE488/HPIB that I used to use. 4 Isolated channels can be extremely handy when working with analog circuits. Great video of well-designed, full-featured, professional gear.
Pomona sells the exact binding post/banana plus adapters you're speaking of.
At 13:11 when switching on the NGE100 the USB Port moves quite a lot. Hopefully this will not end up something breaking after a while due to stress movement on a wire or solder joint. At least this doesn't look trustworthy. Guess there ist room for improvement.
HMP2020 has software option for 3rd channel, just enter the key
You can parallel the channels, so the three-channel HMP2030 is actually just as good as the HMP2020, yet more flexible.
Nice little bundle. I like the little one, the price is a bit higher than the Rigol's but still reasonable. Looking forward to a full review.
Would it be fair to compare with the Rigol?
EEVblog Yeah, Rigol and Rohde&Schwarz are in an completely different ballpark IMO
7:00 some current there flapping in the breeze :)
Do a video on the design of the binding post adapter.
It's pretty trivial!
yeah i was catching on fairly fast that 5 amps at 32 volts is the max wattage and you would have to use 16 volts for 10 amps.
Repared a few HMP2020, they are build quite decent. Failure was due to user, shorted the reverse protection diode from the connector side
So Dave, now that you have such a nice set of new power supplies, you probably won't need your old ones any more. I'll gladly pay your costs if you care to sell one to a struggling retired tech in need... :)
Don't hold your breath
5:14
What?! No GPIB port?
I am shocked!
In germany Red/Blue is even more common than Red/Black (from my experience). Or it indicates isolated channels. Black for common ground, blue for negative potential (independent of other blue connectors).
And here I am with my DPS5030... but to be honest, I’m happy with it. Although I’m guessing switching noise will not make it suitable for all applications. But I’m still new to electronics so I’m sure I’ll find out when I smoke something.
Fyi, the FTC in America has decided that those stickers about the warranty are meaningless. Given your accent, that probably doesnt matter to you though. : )
I wish they would be offended at the ones in my son's set-up!
We have them, worked with them, they are ok, but way overpriced. Power output is a joke even when combining channels. As soon as you work with motors and require a little bit more torque Rhode und Schwarz entire line is useless. We bought new ones from Elektro-Automatik going up to 1.5kW, programmable, no further license nonesense. Pretty happy with them.
Wow! You got quite a nice present for my birthday! I just got a Blue ESR tester today, quite the piece of kit! Can't wait to fix some stuff around the house.
Only single quadrant operation? No current sinking capability? I suppose not really a general purpose supply feature, but nice to have when you need it and something you get with HP/Agilent/Keysight 6631B/6632B/6633B/6634B/66332A supplies, for example.
Single quadrant. If you need that then you buy a specific supply that has it.
Iwill pay shipping for any of your trash, lol!
I would love to see Keysight or another manufacturer now try to outdo Rohde & Shwarz. Next mailbag - everyone sends in their top of the line power supply.
David Gustafik soon Dave is covered in high end power supplies and runs out of room for mailbag items.
*looks down at 30$ DC-DC buck-boost module with croc clips on the output he uses as his supply*. ....... hey Rohde & Schwarz ...look how awfull this is......
Kind of cheeky not giving Dave units that are fully kitted with all the options. Obviously it won't cost them anything extra, and the point of giving a review unit is not to give free stuff to the reviewer, but to let the reviewer try all options to convince other people that the options are worth buying.
$5K US of free power supplies..... NOOOOOOIIIIIICCCCCCCEEEEEE! Good stuff! Makes my old HP supplies look like toys!
as we always say here, dont turn it on TAKE IT APAHT
These devices are so different from one another I suspect they are from different oem manufacturers and not (all) directly from R&S.
3:02 I've seen that strange packing method before, on stuff from TagMaster AB from Sweden. I think it's done just to reduce waste compared to completely covering each end of the product in foam.
It's really not a 10A capable supply through the whole range (HMP2020). It's limited to 160W. At max V it's less than 5A.
Good they sent you free because they need ADS to sell that PSU at 2500 USD!!!
used test equipment is the way to go. picked up a R&S spectrum analyzer originally specced at $120,000 for $800. seems to be that the more expensive they are, the less value they retain.
Wow - free power supplies! I'm coming back as Dave Jones in my next lifetime.
Maybe it's just me, but I like the looks of Rigol instruments more.
I'm sure I could get Rohde & Schwarz really offended at the utter junk I use as power supplies.
Trust me, it's bad, the 1979 3 channel LM723 based supply that doesn't work, and needs changes to make into proper variable supply for instance.
11:25 That's actually the NGE103B (not NGE103), which costs 890 EUR.
Out of the blue, someone just gave you $7000+ worth of new gear for free. Unbelievable! You are one lucky fella.
THese are clearly from their Hameg acquisition. Hameg uses those cases and they are standard depth
May the Schwarz be with you!
6:12 the wonky red power button is making me uncomfortable
Every time something like this happens, I'm sure dave thinks to himself "this youtube thing was a really good idea".
I realize these are made for professionals but the fact that they have the hardware inside for the options, but require you to pay a license fee to use them, is complete bullshit. The only thing this review did was make sure I never purchase anything Rohde & Schwarz. The limitations in the interface and power output are very disappointing as well. I don't know what they are doing to justify these prices, accuracy perhaps? I will watch the teardown's and maybe feel differently.
With 9 PS channels, I will be sad if we don't get more physical demonstrations of electrical theory like the bypass cap vid.
Binding posts on the little one have a silly look
Agreed
Don't turn it on... TAKE IT APART! Well, maybe not.
I'm not sure I've ever heard Dave as giddy about something new as here: 3:38
"Father, when I grow up, can I be a packaging engineer just like you". "Son, no".
By the time you have bought the high resolution plug in for the dp832 you are not far away from the nge103.....though the specs are quite a step up!!
Yeah, optioned up the DP832 is pushing a similar price.
Did you say " nob in ya face?' Lol!!
Electroboom would giveaway one of them....just saying :)