I totally agree with you. If you consider the fact that they toured with Nightwish in 2002/3 it's easy to understand that Tuomas and Marko had a keen ear on her vocal abilities. In fact she said that they always kept in contact since. So no surprises they asked her. Luckily for us she said yes 🖤 Joost vd Broek works with Arjan Lucassen in Ayreon.
Of course not only has Floor moved forward, although by this time was writing much of the material, but so has Joost van den Broek on keyboards. Now a well respected record producer and chief collaborator with Arjen Anthony Lucassen on his various Aryeon and Star One projects
After Forever was Symphonic Metal, Progressive Metal and Gothic Metal but at Prog Power USA it’s not all prog, next year we will even see LOVEBITES in Atlanta at Prog Power USA 2024 From the album After Forever Lyrics: Floor Jansen Music: Sander Gommans, Sir Joost van den Broek, After Forever Floor Jansen: Vocals, soprano choir vocals Sander Gommans: Lead Guitar, grunt vocals Bas Maas: Guitars Luuk van Gerven: Bass Guitar Sir Joost van den Broek: keyboard s, orchestral and choral arrangements, engineering Andre Borgman: Drums Additional musicians: Rannveig Sif Sigurdardottir , Mezzo-soprano choir vocals Amanda Somerville: Alto choir vocals Previn Moore: Tenor and baritone choir vocals Jeff Waters: guitar solo on “De-Energized” Doro Pesch: Vocals on “Who I Am” City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra Richard Hein, Orchestra conductor Production: Gordon Groothedde Dutch album chart: position 6
I agree with your commentary, particularly regarding Floor. After Forever was quite good, but Floor is on another level. She is basically capable of anything, so she rises to the level of the material she has to work with, and a bit beyond that.
After Forever is quite an interesting band. But is suffers as a lot of first bands do with uneven development of the members. This was most clear with Floor as she really evolved rapidly.
Great and honest response as usual. Same thought I had when I saw Floor over 25 years for the first time live. Queen approaching, but what throne she’ll landing on……. But maybe strangely enough I kept that feeling even performing with NW. I still feel she’s hold back by T. But no complaining, just missing the ‘free’ Floor of AF and Revamp.
On the keyboards in 2007 is Joost van den Broek, pity the camera does not show him playing. He is now producer and steals the show at the Ayreon live shows with his work on Hammond and synths.
✨✨Your score is spot on. As for your comments on Floor - she was depressed by the spilt up of the band. She loved the band and their music, and she felt a kind of loss of her identity when they split up. Well.. as for the story she created ReVamp - new band, but the loss of "After forever" was still hounting her. Well - her story afterward as a fairytale when Nightwish called her, but dont forget the guitarist Mark Jansen. After his break from "After forever" in 2002, he quickly formed another band called Sahara Dust, which later developed into the symphonic metal band Epica - which you already know. So "After forever" gave us Nightwish and Epica as we love them today 😀✨✨
Floor losing her identity - that is the main reason for my complaining about her destination for bigger things. It's almost like forcing someone to do what I think that is the Best. So now she's a superstar, but the prize was quite big. And I think it's still somewhere hidden. But I am happy that she's now happy. Epica also shouldn't be forgotten.
Had the band not fallen apart in 2009, Floor would probably still be with them. The guitarist doing the harsh vocals is band co-founder Sander Gommans, he wrote the music with keyboardist Sir Joost van den Broek. Floor wrote the lyrics. The song is from their self titled 5th , and final, album in 2007.
Metal music has different waves through the years like NWOBHM, glam era, thrash, and so on! The golden years of gloomy doom metal and doom death the 90's. The addition of female (beauty) vocals and the harsh growling vocals (beast) is a awesome metal genre, and new bands raising as Theater of Tragedy, Sirrah, Tristania, Sirenia, Draconian, Paradise Lost, After Forever, Crematory, Leaves' Eyes, Eternal Tears of sorrow, Revamp, Epica... perhaps Gothic Metal, but in my opinion isn't that such thing like Symphonic Metal in metal music. And After Forever is one of the best in her own right, not for everyone but unique metal band.
I agree with your review. I kept thinking this song would sound better in a larger venue. And I agree with your assessment of Floor. She definitely outshone the other band members.
Saw After Forever in 2002 in "Ayreon city" Tilburg, together with.. yup: Nightweesh (and another band I can't remember the name of). The AF's literally dwarfed NW, especially when they took tt stage during the NW set when Tarja took a break (AF drummer on guitar and AF guitarist, Bas Maas doing vocals instead of Marko). It was a great night all around. Floor really shone like the bright star she always was. I opined to the NW company I was with that AF showed much more promise. Boy was I right! 😇 Cheers!
Of course they _literally_ dwarfed NW. They're Dutch. Btw, there is an interview with André Borgman and Bas Maas in which they told that it was all planned (them doing the cover with NW, I mean). They did this for the entire tour. It's kind of amusing to watch the reactions of people armed with the hindsight. I'm sure they all would have the vision to identify NW as a superior band destined for -mainstream- global success if they did a trve first time, blind reaction to a non-official Nightwish video from around 2002 (or better yet, 2008).😊 Stupid, silly me and you, we don't have this kind of vision. We never saw that Floor didn't belong in this band. Stupid Floor too, she didn't either. Well, she's evolved and reached her Paragon by now, so it's all good. It's all good. Yeah..
you're right about the sound and you're the only one I watched who noticed it and talked about it and you're right about Floor being too much for this band too. she deserved a better band and NW is that better band.
I'm digging the same hole. Neither Tuomas nor Marco were deaf, but they got befriended with After Forever, since they were tourig with AF, which was their support band back then. So they needed to know that there are options for replacing Tarja, respectively her husband Marcelo, who was hardly bearable for any other bandmembers at that time. So Nightwish decided to make a public employment ad, hoping the right one will answer, rather then getting even more boo!-s by trying to entice candidates from other bands...unfortunalely there had only been Floor's sister Irene amongst the applicants. Floor is a humble and loyal soul and it would have never come into her mind to dump the band, she joined at the age of 16. Things changed not before 2009, when AF's contract wasn't prolonged by their record company and the band fell apart. Floor wanted to get over it and continue, in vain! Shortly after After Forever disbanded, it was Marko, who took the oppurtunity to refresh his contact with Floor: th-cam.com/video/hHtJsiLAkM4/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared Long story short, eventually Anette lost the benignity of the band and as she announced her pregnancy and that the band needed to postpone parts of their world tour, the band's answer was a clear nope! Their intention was to continue the tour with a substitute. When Floor's name came up, Anette totally freaked out and situation became irreconsilable. "Please learn the setlist in 48 hrs." was the well-known result.
All off the After Forever band members indead moved on from this band, they are still great friends. Keyobard player Joost van den Broek. has become one off the Dutch best Producers. you can find his name in so many albums. All off the later albums from Arjen "Aryeon"Lucassen all off the albums from Epica. he does the classical arangment for the 4 and 5th may festivals every year, and so many other things. Sander Gommans the guy on the left i think. he becamse a guitar teacher. manager and producer for various bands. the other guitar player Bas Maas, became the guitarist and backing vocalist for the band Doro.Bassist Luuk van Gerven joined the live band off Robby valentine. Drummer André Borgman joined the live band of Robby valentine as well.
After Forever in my opinion a unique band. Lucky me, I was able to follow them from the beginning. 🥰> The music they made just wasn't for the big audiences.
👍Not enough cheese and "jumpdafokkup" factor for the big audiences I guess. They certainly weren't destined for a huge mainstream success in a world where Rampstein, Sabbelton and Nightfish headline "metal" festivals. And, getting royally screwed over by the record label certainly didn't help with achieving said success...
I agree they are not really prog, particularly this album was a mixture of power, prog and gothic metal. With Floor, I dont think you can tell she did not belong here, because she outshined the rest. I mean, she did, but the same can be told with Nightwish. Definitely she loved it and if they existed until today, she would be IMHO still their frontwoman. After Forever had been one of Big 4 in female fronted bands already, unfortunately the main songwriter Sander Gommans lost his motivation to continue.
"She did not belong here" - did the wanker really say this? I didn't watch the video, 'cause couldn't stomach him for more than 1 minute. Let me take a wild guess: he also said that she was destined for greatness, that being NW? Sure, having the benefit of hindsight has nothing to do with making such prophetic statements... Floor really looks like a confined puppet in NW compared to how free and wild she was in AF. They weren't prog in the same sense Dream Theater is (thank g@wd for that!). Still, one of the more original and experimental female-fronted bands out there. It's worth mentioning that the main reason for Sander's burnout and loss of motivation has a name on it: Hans van Vuuren. They would've been bigger than Epica today if this guy didn't royally fcuk them over.
He said "She did, but didn't", so yes. And destination for greatness, bigger things was also said. But generally he praised them. I'm personally not so upset with it, because he knows her just in NW who are really very famous (and Floor helped them to be). I am quite curious about new NW album which is already recorded except of Floor, of course. I heard a long time ago there was some problem with Transmission records, Was it him?
Yes, it was that guy. I've made several attempts to post a l!nk or the story itself here, but.. it's TH-cam, so guess what happened to those comments. Will try again in a few hours, days, whatever.
@@janmaule606 Alright, attempt No.666. Here's what Sander said back in 2008: "Transmission (Hans van Vuren) hasnt given us any payment for Remagine and Mea Culpa. This guy is the biggest reason we're having this break now, he messed up things badly for us. I rarely say bad things about somebody, but this guy is really insane and responsible for the state After Forever is in. Just before Hans van Vuren got bankrupt he "sold" all the rights to his wife, in order to be able to keep the rights, start a new company and continue his releases. That's why we could not release a DVD since he wouldn't cooperate and it makes no sense to me to record one with only songs from the last album. He tried to force a break up of the band when he knew the contract was finished, and he even tried to sabotage the Remagine recordings. You can't imagine what he has done to the band, and especially to me personally. When I started to have my personal break, he tried to drain all the energy from me by threatening me, ordering all kinds of stupid stuff on my account, putting fake profiles of me on different sites on the internet etc etc. I had to go to the police to stop this insanity, and it makes me sad that such a person has managed to get After Forever in a difficult position. All the money that Remagine and Mea Culpa brought, went directly to him, and it's extremely frustrating that there's nothing we can do about that legally since "he went bankrupt". The musicbusiness can be a beautiful thing, but guys like him make it an impossible business. As a member of After Forever I honestly say that we put all the energy we had in our albums, it makes me sick that this idiot can do with them whatever he wants..."
![[UNCUT]"ทนายตั้ม" แฉยับ! ความลับสวรรค์ ใครคือ "บิ๊กเทวดา" ของบอสพอล l คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ l 15 ต.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ru9fpSaUwdA/mqdefault.jpg)
I totally agree with you. If you consider the fact that they toured with Nightwish in 2002/3 it's easy to understand that Tuomas and Marko had a keen ear on her vocal abilities. In fact she said that they always kept in contact since. So no surprises they asked her. Luckily for us she said yes 🖤 Joost vd Broek works with Arjan Lucassen in Ayreon.
Of course not only has Floor moved forward, although by this time was writing much of the material, but so has Joost van den Broek on keyboards. Now a well respected record producer and chief collaborator with Arjen Anthony Lucassen on his various Aryeon and Star One projects
After Forever was Symphonic Metal, Progressive Metal and Gothic Metal but at Prog Power USA it’s not all prog, next year we will even see LOVEBITES in Atlanta at Prog Power USA 2024
From the album After Forever
Lyrics: Floor Jansen
Music: Sander Gommans, Sir Joost van den Broek, After Forever
Floor Jansen: Vocals, soprano choir vocals
Sander Gommans: Lead Guitar, grunt vocals
Bas Maas: Guitars
Luuk van Gerven: Bass Guitar
Sir Joost van den Broek: keyboard s, orchestral and choral arrangements, engineering
Andre Borgman: Drums
Additional musicians:
Rannveig Sif Sigurdardottir , Mezzo-soprano choir vocals
Amanda Somerville: Alto choir vocals
Previn Moore: Tenor and baritone choir vocals
Jeff Waters: guitar solo on “De-Energized”
Doro Pesch: Vocals on “Who I Am”
City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra
Richard Hein, Orchestra conductor
Production: Gordon Groothedde
Dutch album chart: position 6
I agree with your commentary, particularly regarding Floor. After Forever was quite good, but Floor is on another level. She is basically capable of anything, so she rises to the level of the material she has to work with, and a bit beyond that.
After Forever is quite an interesting band. But is suffers as a lot of first bands do with uneven development of the members. This was most clear with Floor as she really evolved rapidly.
Great and honest response as usual. Same thought I had when I saw Floor over 25 years for the first time live. Queen approaching, but what throne she’ll landing on……. But maybe strangely enough I kept that feeling even performing with NW. I still feel she’s hold back by T. But no complaining, just missing the ‘free’ Floor of AF and Revamp.
I agree with the "free" Floor. 😊
On the keyboards in 2007 is Joost van den Broek, pity the camera does not show him playing. He is now producer and steals the show at the Ayreon live shows with his work on Hammond and synths.
✨✨Your score is spot on. As for your comments on Floor - she was depressed by the spilt up of the band. She loved the band and their music, and she felt a kind of loss of her identity when they split up. Well.. as for the story she created ReVamp - new band, but the loss of "After forever" was still hounting her. Well - her story afterward as a fairytale when Nightwish called her, but dont forget the guitarist Mark Jansen. After his break from "After forever" in 2002, he quickly formed another band called Sahara Dust, which later developed into the symphonic metal band Epica - which you already know. So "After forever" gave us Nightwish and Epica as we love them today 😀✨✨
Floor losing her identity - that is the main reason for my complaining about her destination for bigger things. It's almost like forcing someone to do what I think that is the Best. So now she's a superstar, but the prize was quite big. And I think it's still somewhere hidden. But I am happy that she's now happy.
Epica also shouldn't be forgotten.
Had the band not fallen apart in 2009, Floor would probably still be with them. The guitarist doing the harsh vocals is band co-founder Sander Gommans, he wrote the music with keyboardist Sir Joost van den Broek. Floor wrote the lyrics. The song is from their self titled 5th , and final, album in 2007.
As an aside, Floor was also partnered with Sander Gommans at the time.
Metal music has different waves through the years like NWOBHM, glam era, thrash, and so on! The golden years of gloomy doom metal and doom death the 90's. The addition of female (beauty) vocals and the harsh growling vocals (beast) is a awesome metal genre, and new bands raising as Theater of Tragedy, Sirrah, Tristania, Sirenia, Draconian, Paradise Lost, After Forever, Crematory, Leaves' Eyes, Eternal Tears of sorrow, Revamp, Epica... perhaps Gothic Metal, but in my opinion isn't that such thing like Symphonic Metal in metal music. And After Forever is one of the best in her own right, not for everyone but unique metal band.
I agree with your review. I kept thinking this song would sound better in a larger venue. And I agree with your assessment of Floor. She definitely outshone the other band members.
Saw After Forever in 2002 in "Ayreon city" Tilburg, together with.. yup: Nightweesh (and another band I can't remember the name of). The AF's literally dwarfed NW, especially when they took tt stage during the NW set when Tarja took a break (AF drummer on guitar and AF guitarist, Bas Maas doing vocals instead of Marko). It was a great night all around. Floor really shone like the bright star she always was. I opined to the NW company I was with that AF showed much more promise. Boy was I right! 😇 Cheers!
Of course they _literally_ dwarfed NW. They're Dutch.
Btw, there is an interview with André Borgman and Bas Maas in which they told that it was all planned (them doing the cover with NW, I mean). They did this for the entire tour.
It's kind of amusing to watch the reactions of people armed with the hindsight. I'm sure they all would have the vision to identify NW as a superior band destined for -mainstream- global success if they did a trve first time, blind reaction to a non-official Nightwish video from around 2002 (or better yet, 2008).😊
Stupid, silly me and you, we don't have this kind of vision. We never saw that Floor didn't belong in this band. Stupid Floor too, she didn't either. Well, she's evolved and reached her Paragon by now, so it's all good. It's all good. Yeah..
@@noneofyerbeeswax8194 Wow, so much trvth and you still got (auto) hearted ❤
@@BrendonChase_2015 ❤💔🖤💣⚔🙃
Auto hearted??? I read it and hearted it myself, just like I do with all of the comments.
@@THEDavidHeretic I do apologize, if I spoke out of line.
Nightwish nut here.... My girl Floor is f****g amazing
you're right about the sound and you're the only one I watched who noticed it and talked about it and you're right about Floor being too much for this band too. she deserved a better band and NW is that better band.
I would also like to know why the sound is so shitty when it is an official festival video. In fact all five recordings have bad sound...
I'm digging the same hole. Neither Tuomas nor Marco were deaf, but they got befriended with After Forever, since they were tourig with AF, which was their support band back then. So they needed to know that there are options for replacing Tarja, respectively her husband Marcelo, who was hardly bearable for any other bandmembers at that time. So Nightwish decided to make a public employment ad, hoping the right one will answer, rather then getting even more boo!-s by trying to entice candidates from other bands...unfortunalely there had only been Floor's sister Irene amongst the applicants. Floor is a humble and loyal soul and it would have never come into her mind to dump the band, she joined at the age of 16. Things changed not before 2009, when AF's contract wasn't prolonged by their record company and the band fell apart. Floor wanted to get over it and continue, in vain! Shortly after After Forever disbanded, it was Marko, who took the oppurtunity to refresh his contact with Floor: th-cam.com/video/hHtJsiLAkM4/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Long story short, eventually Anette lost the benignity of the band and as she announced her pregnancy and that the band needed to postpone parts of their world tour, the band's answer was a clear nope! Their intention was to continue the tour with a substitute. When Floor's name came up, Anette totally freaked out and situation became irreconsilable. "Please learn the setlist in 48 hrs." was the well-known result.
Just wondering what NW and Tarja thought when they heard Floor's voice while touring together... 🤗😉
They were friends, but it had to be discomfort situation for them, when better band makes the support...
@@janmaule606 🤗
Floor 👌🤘☝
Ceiling.😊
All off the After Forever band members indead moved on from this band, they are still great friends. Keyobard player Joost van den Broek. has become one off the Dutch best Producers. you can find his name in so many albums. All off the later albums from Arjen "Aryeon"Lucassen all off the albums from Epica. he does the classical arangment for the 4 and 5th may festivals every year, and so many other things. Sander Gommans the guy on the left i think. he becamse a guitar teacher. manager and producer for various bands. the other guitar player Bas Maas, became the guitarist and backing vocalist for the band Doro.Bassist Luuk van Gerven joined the live band off Robby valentine. Drummer André Borgman joined the live band of Robby valentine as well.
She needs to be with Tuomas and the band to bring his masterpieces to life.🤘🎸
After Forever in my opinion a unique band. Lucky me, I was able to follow them from the beginning. 🥰> The music they made just wasn't for the big audiences.
👍Not enough cheese and "jumpdafokkup" factor for the big audiences I guess. They certainly weren't destined for a huge mainstream success in a world where Rampstein, Sabbelton and Nightfish headline "metal" festivals. And, getting royally screwed over by the record label certainly didn't help with achieving said success...
Good
I agree they are not really prog, particularly this album was a mixture of power, prog and gothic metal. With Floor, I dont think you can tell she did not belong here, because she outshined the rest. I mean, she did, but the same can be told with Nightwish. Definitely she loved it and if they existed until today, she would be IMHO still their frontwoman.
After Forever had been one of Big 4 in female fronted bands already, unfortunately the main songwriter Sander Gommans lost his motivation to continue.
"She did not belong here" - did the wanker really say this? I didn't watch the video, 'cause couldn't stomach him for more than 1 minute. Let me take a wild guess: he also said that she was destined for greatness, that being NW? Sure, having the benefit of hindsight has nothing to do with making such prophetic statements...
Floor really looks like a confined puppet in NW compared to how free and wild she was in AF.
They weren't prog in the same sense Dream Theater is (thank g@wd for that!). Still, one of the more original and experimental female-fronted bands out there. It's worth mentioning that the main reason for Sander's burnout and loss of motivation has a name on it: Hans van Vuuren. They would've been bigger than Epica today if this guy didn't royally fcuk them over.
He said "She did, but didn't", so yes. And destination for greatness, bigger things was also said. But generally he praised them.
I'm personally not so upset with it, because he knows her just in NW who are really very famous (and Floor helped them to be).
I am quite curious about new NW album which is already recorded except of Floor, of course.
I heard a long time ago there was some problem with Transmission records, Was it him?
Yes, it was that guy. I've made several attempts to post a l!nk or the story itself here, but.. it's TH-cam, so guess what happened to those comments. Will try again in a few hours, days, whatever.
@@janmaule606 Alright, attempt No.666. Here's what Sander said back in 2008:
"Transmission (Hans van Vuren) hasnt given us any payment for Remagine and Mea Culpa. This guy is the biggest reason we're having this break now, he messed up things badly for us. I rarely say bad things about somebody, but this guy is really insane and responsible for the state After Forever is in.
Just before Hans van Vuren got bankrupt he "sold" all the rights to his wife, in order to be able to keep the rights, start a new company and continue his releases. That's why we could not release a DVD since he wouldn't cooperate and it makes no sense to me to record one with only songs from the last album. He tried to force a break up of the band when he knew the contract was finished, and he even tried to sabotage the Remagine recordings. You can't imagine what he has done to the band, and especially to me personally.
When I started to have my personal break, he tried to drain all the energy from me by threatening me, ordering all kinds of stupid stuff on my account, putting fake profiles of me on different sites on the internet etc etc. I had to go to the police to stop this insanity, and it makes me sad that such a person has managed to get After Forever in a difficult position. All the money that Remagine and Mea Culpa brought, went directly to him, and it's extremely frustrating that there's nothing we can do about that legally since "he went bankrupt".
The musicbusiness can be a beautiful thing, but guys like him make it an impossible business.
As a member of After Forever I honestly say that we put all the energy we had in our albums, it makes me sick that this idiot can do with them whatever he wants..."