1:24 literally had me do the confused eye blink meme and said "EXCUSE ME?!" with that hit box range. I'm so glad I was coincidentally "opening the match" correctly" with back dashing. More often than not, I always eat dodoo opening aggressively. Unless I really downloaded my opponents habits. As a Jin main, back 2,1 is such a blessing for neutral.
Someone did teach me that the first round you're collecting data so it's okay to let them take the lead and lightly engage them and let them have a little ego a boost off of their aggression so regardless of whether you lost the initial round, come round two you have a familiar idea what's coming and if they don't have multiple layers to their approach, they're pretty much falling on the sword on their own from showing their hand. I do try to back dash at the start and let them lead so I know what adjustments I have to make. Once you 0-2 at an event, it's pretty ingrained that point onwards. Definitely appreciate what you're doing for the community brother.
Its worth noting though that it is also easy to collect an equal amount of data and gauge an opponent while you attack them. Just because you're getting a download on your opponent round 1 from their aggression, doesn't mean that aggression isn't shaped in a way that they've also been downloading you how you respond.
@@rdubyeahYou aren’t wrong, but the data an opponent gets is less exploitable for them by virtue of defensive play being more safe. The defensive player is often going to have more data because they’ve been throwing out less buttons for the opponent to adapt to in the first place (of course this requires your defense to be strong enough to capitalize)
@@rdubyeah for sure. You can effectively collect data whilst putting up a minimal offense as well which doesn't mean you have to sacrifice a round at all. I just was saying you really find pretty quickly about how many layers a players fighting style is if they throw everything at you immediately instead of hold some of it back. I get what you're saying fam.
A passive player is far scarier than an aggressive player. Just fought a Steve online and after 2 rounds for me, he went full defense. Blocked everything, broke all my grabs, punished any attack. I literally couldn't do anything
I have several hundred hours in Tekken, and i just learned that input buffering isnt active during round start. Its little things like this that improve players.
that first 30ish seconds should be a youtube short lol i enjoy further explanation but as a new player with tekken all over my algorithm this would be a simple and effective tip with a little comedy which might help bring more people to the channel.
There are some quick attacks that beat both a backdash and a quick single jab, notably Jins d4. So in certain matchups be ready to mix up options to beat those moves as well, or else you're just going to get poked to start every round.
backdashing at the start of the round is what skyrocketed my success in tekken 7. seeing what my opponent wants to start the round with, seeing how punishable it is on whiff. got me from yellow all the way to red just by pressing b 3,4 on lars lmao.
It was helpful. But I also believe that certain characters can have a ‘specific’ round start. Where it’s usually the same thing from player to player. Eg, I’m fighting some Fujin Kazuya players in a row and I almost always see round start homing attack because of side step left.
It's worth noting a lot of Kazuyas try and fail to start the round with an electric, but get df2 instead which is the homing move you're talking about.
I wanted to write something about this, it is one of the most hilariously toxic things you can do at the start of a round, you can almost feel their fury emanating through your screen! Even better is if they go for a sidestep instead, throws track so well lol
Backdash... of course! If there was EVER any doubt that google reads your mind, look no further. I had this exact thought today, on how to do a proper round opener and BAM! PhiDX to the rescue. I'd like to thank you for your amazing videos. It's really helped me up my game and allowed me to break into purple ranks. I still have a long way to go before I break into gold ranks, but I'm sure I'll improve enough in time to do so, with your amazing guidance. Cheers!
Coming from Guilty Gear Strive where round start is a whole separate matchup knowledge to get, this is really good advice. In Tekken 8, I just backdash or at worst jab, because I just try to play into my + frames but I had no idea what was truly the right call
Agreed! As a xioayu main, based on their playstyle, I imagine they come across a lot of people who mash/ press buttons at the start & so they're fishing for counter hits. Works well in lower ranks where people tend to run themselves into whatever moves you throw out but falls off in effectiveness against defensive players 😅🎉
the backdash is very common and its quite easy to sniff out after 1 or 2 rounds of playing someone. then just run in at round start and throw to have good chance at damage.
With Hwoa this is hilarious because you get to force them into flamingo mixes, and then the next round you just b3 whiff punish whatever they do if it works out
2:05 "Maybe they forward dash at you" When I notice players do backdashes at the start of the round, I do start to forward dash at them and even do f,f,b,wr2 on Drag. I did that in T7 a lot: now opponent is -6 and I stole a good chunk of a stage from them. Then, with Feng, when I notice the backdashes, I start to do rolldashes forward into blocks(Feng can block while forward dashing) and mix them up immediately.
Nice. Love this, this is amazing. Now do a 2 minute tips video on the simple yet important question: how to approach an opponent you just knocked down. because i keep running intoi 3+4s, but also, more importantly, i dont know if Running has a wind down ebfore i can block, and i dont know how to play okizeme in general. i reached redrank without ever being able to learn that on paul or claudio.
@@PhiDX you do? i mustve missed it! Just for the extra dumbs like me - which video was it in? (imma check myself, this is for the future comment reader.)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you know your opponent is going to open with a jab, often times a hop kick or some grabs will beat it. But otherwise, a back dash really is the safest opener and it's hard to go wrong with it.
Point well-taken of course, Tk8 neutral is a lot of fun. If I'm playing casually then I enjoy the gamble for first attack. The dopamine hit is great LOL.
It's just so funny to me how that Ling player tried so hard and pressed so many buttons And then just died to a simple backdash. Only to not run it back. Poetic.
This also means ducking on round start is terrible, because you can backdash most of the scary launching lows. Have to look out for hellsweep, king/paul's slow -12 low launcher, w.e else I'm forgetting, and of course if they forward dash.
if i see they mashing round 1 i usually armor if i see they stand block at start i usually try to go for a throw or mix but i think backdash actually makes more sense in most scenarios for me. thanks for the tip!
There actually is an input buffer before round start in this game, but I'm not yet familiar with the rules of it. Shaheens new down/up charge move can be thrown out at round start 😮 . Thanks for the great content as always, your videos are good 💪
This must be a very character specific thing, because it's been tested alot and there's no input buffer before the round starts. The devs designed it so that you should actually pay attention to the "FIGHT" animation and find the timing, like when the light turns 'green' in motorsports
Is there a line where maybe vs Dragunov or Azucena you don't want to backdash because it puts them at range for their bs moves like ff2 or wr 3~2? And if so, what's the plan there? Just take the dice roll and pick an option? I usually do low jab or an armor move at round start vs azu, but I'm sure that's not ideal.
Hey man, I have been watching your videos for quite some time now, and I really like your content, how you go deep into stuff and all. So here's a request from my side- Please make a video on the Yoshimitsu counter, I am fed up with the flash threat, every time I think I can punish this move, they use the flash, please help.
Use to sidestep left a lot but in higher ranks they do the same and launch me before I get the chance to launch them LOL. That Xiaoyu color way is so cool gonna have to use that 😮
This is pretty much what I figured, the better player would win off a neutral start anyways, I suppose if you needed to sneak a cheesy round in or you realize your opponent downloaded you an offensive opener could be the right choice. I mostly just dash back while blocking.
It's so weird to me that there's no round start buffer window. I wonder if that's something they'd ever consider changing, it seems like such an odd choice.
Do you also want to be patient and play the whiff punish game when firing off your Heat Smash? I always feel so clumsy about how I fire mine off in a match. Scrub Force Lars player, here.
what I did before purple ranks when people always started with a attack was alternate on the 1 button with 2 fingers and it always worked because noone did that or they played on pad. But yeah, backdashing is the way to go usually
It's probably me being unlucky or playing characters with bad backdashes (King comes to mind), but I get a lot of people throwing quick lows like Drag's d2 and I get clipped every time if I backdash.
Don’t think about it too much as a bad thing. Use that as information on your opponents, because they might do the low again the start of the next round. Yes, they land a hit on you, but you get some data to help you win future rounds.
I use back dash as an opener until i figured out how my enemy starts his rounds, if he always starts with punshes i can just use lilis d1+2 or b1+3 for a counter
You never attack at the opening? Always back dash? I feel like 90% of the opponents I’ve faced thus far even though I’m not that high up in the ranks yet are always attacking right off the bat and I’m always having to block
Okay but out of everyone, Lili is the one character I never mash against cuz her movement and evasiveness is too good, unless you have a good long range attack.
More two minute Tekken tips is always welcome
I agree
That did help yes, beginners like general rules. We can learn how to break them later
please dont break me😅
1:24 literally had me do the confused eye blink meme and said "EXCUSE ME?!" with that hit box range.
I'm so glad I was coincidentally "opening the match" correctly" with back dashing. More often than not, I always eat dodoo opening aggressively. Unless I really downloaded my opponents habits. As a Jin main, back 2,1 is such a blessing for neutral.
PhiDX I wanna thank you for these videos they really do help. I've just reached Tekken King today! Thanks to you!!!
Someone did teach me that the first round you're collecting data so it's okay to let them take the lead and lightly engage them and let them have a little ego a boost off of their aggression so regardless of whether you lost the initial round, come round two you have a familiar idea what's coming and if they don't have multiple layers to their approach, they're pretty much falling on the sword on their own from showing their hand. I do try to back dash at the start and let them lead so I know what adjustments I have to make. Once you 0-2 at an event, it's pretty ingrained that point onwards. Definitely appreciate what you're doing for the community brother.
Its worth noting though that it is also easy to collect an equal amount of data and gauge an opponent while you attack them. Just because you're getting a download on your opponent round 1 from their aggression, doesn't mean that aggression isn't shaped in a way that they've also been downloading you how you respond.
@@rdubyeahYou aren’t wrong, but the data an opponent gets is less exploitable for them by virtue of defensive play being more safe. The defensive player is often going to have more data because they’ve been throwing out less buttons for the opponent to adapt to in the first place (of course this requires your defense to be strong enough to capitalize)
@@rdubyeah for sure. You can effectively collect data whilst putting up a minimal offense as well which doesn't mean you have to sacrifice a round at all. I just was saying you really find pretty quickly about how many layers a players fighting style is if they throw everything at you immediately instead of hold some of it back. I get what you're saying fam.
A passive player is far scarier than an aggressive player. Just fought a Steve online and after 2 rounds for me, he went full defense. Blocked everything, broke all my grabs, punished any attack. I literally couldn't do anything
epitome of a Xiaoyu player, mashes as soon as he can every round start, even after he got punished twice for it, and then doesn't rematch
I'm fujin and still haven't encountered any players who don't.
I have several hundred hours in Tekken, and i just learned that input buffering isnt active during round start. Its little things like this that improve players.
Lili Moonwalkling at 0:25 cracked me up
that first 30ish seconds should be a youtube short lol i enjoy further explanation but as a new player with tekken all over my algorithm this would be a simple and effective tip with a little comedy which might help bring more people to the channel.
I now understand. I questioned this the last few games I played, but now I get it.
Thanks PhiDX!
There are some quick attacks that beat both a backdash and a quick single jab, notably Jins d4. So in certain matchups be ready to mix up options to beat those moves as well, or else you're just going to get poked to start every round.
two minute tekken tips are so bite sized and helpful! more!!!! liked and subbed
Thank you Phi for spreading this. King mains now can eat good with a ffn2 round start, lets go!
backdashing at the start of the round is what skyrocketed my success in tekken 7. seeing what my opponent wants to start the round with, seeing how punishable it is on whiff. got me from yellow all the way to red just by pressing b 3,4 on lars lmao.
It was helpful.
But I also believe that certain characters can have a ‘specific’ round start. Where it’s usually the same thing from player to player. Eg, I’m fighting some Fujin Kazuya players in a row and I almost always see round start homing attack because of side step left.
It's worth noting a lot of Kazuyas try and fail to start the round with an electric, but get df2 instead which is the homing move you're talking about.
Optimal opener is matterhorn
Thanks for the info as always, you've been contributing a lot to my learning of the game
The first step when you're about to throw hands, don't throw hands.
Got it, super helpful! 👍
I hope more people follow this backdash opening so I can start doing dash up into command throw more lmao as my yolo round starter
I wanted to write something about this, it is one of the most hilariously toxic things you can do at the start of a round, you can almost feel their fury emanating through your screen! Even better is if they go for a sidestep instead, throws track so well lol
Backdash... of course!
If there was EVER any doubt that google reads your mind, look no further. I had this exact thought today, on how to do a proper round opener and BAM! PhiDX to the rescue.
I'd like to thank you for your amazing videos. It's really helped me up my game and allowed me to break into purple ranks. I still have a long way to go before I break into gold ranks, but I'm sure I'll improve enough in time to do so, with your amazing guidance.
Cheers!
These videos are gold. Keep them coming please
Coming from Guilty Gear Strive where round start is a whole separate matchup knowledge to get, this is really good advice.
In Tekken 8, I just backdash or at worst jab, because I just try to play into my + frames but I had no idea what was truly the right call
That Xiaoyu should've watched this video 😂
Agreed!
As a xioayu main, based on their playstyle, I imagine they come across a lot of people who mash/ press buttons at the start & so they're fishing for counter hits.
Works well in lower ranks where people tend to run themselves into whatever moves you throw out but falls off in effectiveness against defensive players 😅🎉
the backdash is very common and its quite easy to sniff out after 1 or 2 rounds of playing someone. then just run in at round start and throw to have good chance at damage.
I love forward dashing at people in one round, then back dashing the next round lol
With Hwoa this is hilarious because you get to force them into flamingo mixes, and then the next round you just b3 whiff punish whatever they do if it works out
2:05 "Maybe they forward dash at you"
When I notice players do backdashes at the start of the round, I do start to forward dash at them and even do f,f,b,wr2 on Drag. I did that in T7 a lot: now opponent is -6 and I stole a good chunk of a stage from them.
Then, with Feng, when I notice the backdashes, I start to do rolldashes forward into blocks(Feng can block while forward dashing) and mix them up immediately.
Rest in power akirya toriyama 🕊️💫
Upback 3+4 on Steve has been carrying me for this exact reason. Free launch / heat engage against pretty much most round start buttons
another banger, thanks Phi!
this man made me love tekken
1:20 Holy fuck so that's why every time .... Damn..
In two minutes my perception of Tekken has changed
Nice. Love this, this is amazing. Now do a 2 minute tips video on the simple yet important question: how to approach an opponent you just knocked down. because i keep running intoi 3+4s, but also, more importantly, i dont know if Running has a wind down ebfore i can block, and i dont know how to play okizeme in general. i reached redrank without ever being able to learn that on paul or claudio.
i have a guide on this!
@@PhiDX you do? i mustve missed it! Just for the extra dumbs like me - which video was it in?
(imma check myself, this is for the future comment reader.)
yoshi mains who start the round with instant flea lmao
Hopkick every time!
These 2 min tips help a lot since my attention span is shit for longer form content
I have met A LOT of round-open-front-dasher, they're all Hwoarang mains.
I back jump kick or run in for grab as a mix up
honestly, it's laughable how many times my armored DF3 4 worked on opening. i'm currently in red ranks so it's kinda expected but still...
Dash Throw at the start works way too often at any rank below red. Usually gets them pressing buttons at the start which you then just backdash.
For real. Most players like that assume you'll be aggressive, so they block
@@kylespevak6781 also they can't react to throws, so throws work in general😂
The mind games start even before the first punch thrown. Sometimes when you intimindate opponent they hesitate to do anything at the round start.
Lmao “Check this out”
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you know your opponent is going to open with a jab, often times a hop kick or some grabs will beat it. But otherwise, a back dash really is the safest opener and it's hard to go wrong with it.
Neutral my beloved.
Point well-taken of course, Tk8 neutral is a lot of fun.
If I'm playing casually then I enjoy the gamble for first attack. The dopamine hit is great LOL.
Funny the first thing I thought when I saw the thumbnail. Just back dash, watched it on Anakin's stream.
It's just so funny to me how that Ling player tried so hard and pressed so many buttons
And then just died to a simple backdash.
Only to not run it back. Poetic.
But what if, wait for it... Hop kick 😂
I love that you absolutely wrecked the Kishin Ling because she couldn’t knowledge check you lol
This also means ducking on round start is terrible, because you can backdash most of the scary launching lows. Have to look out for hellsweep, king/paul's slow -12 low launcher, w.e else I'm forgetting, and of course if they forward dash.
if i see they mashing round 1 i usually armor if i see they stand block at start i usually try to go for a throw or mix but i think backdash actually makes more sense in most scenarios for me. thanks for the tip!
Another good video, keep it up👍
2 minute tip videos are great for my goldfish attention span!
There actually is an input buffer before round start in this game, but I'm not yet familiar with the rules of it. Shaheens new down/up charge move can be thrown out at round start 😮 . Thanks for the great content as always, your videos are good 💪
This must be a very character specific thing, because it's been tested alot and there's no input buffer before the round starts. The devs designed it so that you should actually pay attention to the "FIGHT" animation and find the timing, like when the light turns 'green' in motorsports
Backdash ot sidestep to opponents weak side, or step to your weak side to counter them stepping you
Damn I didn't even know that buffer is not active in the start of the round. Was the same in Tekken 7?
Is there a line where maybe vs Dragunov or Azucena you don't want to backdash because it puts them at range for their bs moves like ff2 or wr 3~2? And if so, what's the plan there? Just take the dice roll and pick an option? I usually do low jab or an armor move at round start vs azu, but I'm sure that's not ideal.
Yep. Every mishima loves that backdash into maybe an ewgf punish 😂😂😂
more of these quick 2 min videos!!!
“Shitty combo sorry “ continues to shit on them 😂😂
I mean, the combo was trash. These verbal remarks are usually to themselves, btw. It's to help make a mental note of the drop and clean up execution.
Hey man, I have been watching your videos for quite some time now, and I really like your content, how you go deep into stuff and all. So here's a request from my side- Please make a video on the Yoshimitsu counter, I am fed up with the flash threat, every time I think I can punish this move, they use the flash, please help.
What about for characters like Steve who can do a stance transition that makes space and could lead to a combo?
Love how the video could just be summarized as "don't mash at the start of a round lol"
Use to sidestep left a lot but in higher ranks they do the same and launch me before I get the chance to launch them LOL. That Xiaoyu color way is so cool gonna have to use that 😮
This is pretty much what I figured, the better player would win off a neutral start anyways, I suppose if you needed to sneak a cheesy round in or you realize your opponent downloaded you an offensive opener could be the right choice. I mostly just dash back while blocking.
It's so weird to me that there's no round start buffer window. I wonder if that's something they'd ever consider changing, it seems like such an odd choice.
Do you also want to be patient and play the whiff punish game when firing off your Heat Smash? I always feel so clumsy about how I fire mine off in a match. Scrub Force Lars player, here.
Do you like first 2 lock? Curious about your thoughts as a competitive player.
what I did before purple ranks when people always started with a attack was alternate on the 1 button with 2 fingers and it always worked because noone did that or they played on pad. But yeah, backdashing is the way to go usually
ask king i default to a powercrush then adjust to a hopkick or dash>grab
phidx PLEASE discuss backturn combos and side combos. Its so mystified for me lol
Is kings back dash good enough to make it viable
Clicked on this as I was starting a match used backdash every round start and won every first exchange
It's probably me being unlucky or playing characters with bad backdashes (King comes to mind), but I get a lot of people throwing quick lows like Drag's d2 and I get clipped every time if I backdash.
Don’t think about it too much as a bad thing. Use that as information on your opponents, because they might do the low again the start of the next round. Yes, they land a hit on you, but you get some data to help you win future rounds.
More 2 minute tips please. The longer videos are cool but it's hard to retain everything
Hopkick baaaaaaby
If someone backdashes me first 2 rounds I forward dash and grab em round 3. Then round 4 they use a launcher which I counter hit, works every time.
Welp, you are straight to the point ill give you that XD
what does bi attack buffer at the start of the round mean
I'm not joking since this video I have seen INFINTELY more people backdash on round start in the lower ranks that I'm in... it just works lmao
sometimes they be using an attack with excessively long range. he gets me
More 2 mins tips 😊
I use back dash as an opener until i figured out how my enemy starts his rounds, if he always starts with punshes i can just use lilis d1+2 or b1+3 for a counter
What if I dash block round start to make em think I’m risky once in a while 😅
That Ling was way too aggressive against a good punisher. I main Ling and I'm always weary of people who wait for my mistakes
Trying to attack first...especially online due to input lag...is a horrible mistake. I still try, though.
Wave dashing tips (controller beginner)?
Backdash snake edge
Works everytime (former dragunov player)
Always Hellsweep at the start of the round
"Hope she rematches me," a Ling getting out-fundied rematching? Not happening.
Good advice…but I’m willing to die for that mix.
You never attack at the opening? Always back dash? I feel like 90% of the opponents I’ve faced thus far even though I’m not that high up in the ranks yet are always attacking right off the bat and I’m always having to block
but what if your anyone who isnt lily?
Lily's backdash isnt even that special. Its average at best, Jack and Feng and others have way better backdashes
Okay but out of everyone, Lili is the one character I never mash against cuz her movement and evasiveness is too good, unless you have a good long range attack.
If they mash, just backdash!
Check this out > Backdash > Whiff > BOOOOOM
TLDW @0:30
🤣
they should just implement an input buffer at round start, no reason that's not there
Julias Wardrums (4~2,1) are a nice way to callout backdashers (T7). Sometimes i just dash at roundstart to send a message
Backdash?!? No round start lottery?!? Shameful... 🗿🗿
You should also look into doing Tekken TH-cam Shorts.
You're right they should remove back dashing.