WHY!? Blizzard Keeps RETCONNING and FORGETTING Warcraft Lore - (My Thoughts From Playing Patch 9.2)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ธ.ค. 2024
- World of Warcraft Patch 9.2 is a patch that everyone has encouraged Nixxiom to take a moment to explore. Some say that it's a fantastic patch, others have said that it's rather mediocre, so Nixxiom wanted to check out this new addition to Shadowlands for himself. And during his exploration of Zerith Mortis and all of World of Warcraft Patch 9.2's features, he couldn't help but rant a little on how Blizzard seems to be so keen on either retconning or just plain forgetting already established lore in the World of Warcraft universe. From stupid main characters to forgettable villains, Warcraft really has taken a dramatic turn in low-tier storytelling and a lack of world building.
Thoughts? Agree? Disagree?
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So, the question is: Do you guys think that Blizzard has learned their lesson? Will Dragonflight introduce some A+ storytelling to the game? Looking for thoughts and feedback for a future main channel video. Thanks, all!
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What happened to world of nixxiom?
I don't trust Blizzard to fix the story, it's been a mess (2010-2022) twice as long as it was good (2004-2009). Grew up on WoW and when I look at it, it doesn't even feel the same. For me, Legion was the start of fundamental changes to what -is- WoW at the core and spirit of the game, and SL just feels so removed from the those principles that I have 0 faith in Dragonflight. Especially with the info we have about it.
Have you read Silvanas' book? I loved how it explains her motivation while acknowledging that she's still a terrible person. But it sucks that you have to read it, or at least listen to the people who did, to understand what's going on. I hope Blizzard will stop trying (and failing) to write complex stories and then leaving actual writers to deal with the mess they left behind
I’m not so sure anymore, it almost seems like blizzard doesn’t even know what they are writing anymore.
I have zero interest in dragonflight so far. I didn’t even saw the trailer yet and not intend to do it. Though before I used to watch it on the first day asap.
My husband and I literally spend hours just ranting at each other about how shit the lore ended in Shadowlands. Like, we're both asleep but wake up in a cold sweat just to rant about something specific we randomly thought about (its mostly me lol). We love WoWs lore, met in WoW & its something we still play together. But damn Shadowlands really did a number on the player base.
Sounds like a great relationship honestly
I dont want to go back because they shat on the lore so much I dont even care anymore.
Relationship goals
@@TheMaxCloud it def feels like the lore has been abused all of shadowlands lol doesnt help they also put things in the game that never come to fruition. Like the sword, like the cannons in azshara etc. Its been pitifull.
@@ladysyberia7419 So many things wasted yup
Part of the reason why the Forsaken are my favorite race in WoW is because from Classic to Legion, their and Sylvanas’ presence alone made the tensions and distrust between Alliance and Horde more reasonable and complex. I was apprehensive when they made Sylvanas Warchief and now I’m dreading over where they’re going lore wise with Calia in the picture 😔
The biggest problem IMO is the soul splitting BS. They turned the simplistic evil curse of Frostmourne into some complicated crap where it only steals half of a person's soul and the lost half just goes to the shadowlands just to justify the "evil sylvanas" actions so the good half can come back for her redemption arc. The arbiter wasn't broken when the sword was shattered and all the souls were released so why didn't the "halves" come back together? How did the jailer have access to the trapped souls if he was still imprisoned within the maw? If he had access to all the souls within Frostmourne, why didn't he just take them all before the sword was shattered? Why was the splitting of the helm of domination the key to opening the shadowlands? Surely Arthas could have done that any time and helped the Jailer move his plans forward a bit earlier...
Bad retcons just leading to more questions than answers. More bullsh*t that the player base can just see straight through and see how poor the writing really is.
You could say sylvanas was evil even in wcIII when she chose to murder the surviving alliance soldiers who helped her retake lordaeron.
Garithos was a bad dude. Literally a racist human supremacist
The Sylvanas Windrunner (non-undead version) looks like a model that would be used for some 3d rule34 material. Her eyes aren’t right, they look too human.
Edit: on the Garrosh thing, what made home better than Sylvanas as a villain was the fact he owned his shit. In the novel that was about his trial in Panda land he pretty much said: If I was given a second chance I would do the same.
I also think her skin looks really weird, like her skin is so smooth it almost looks blurry, especially when compared to Uther who has visible wrinkles in his skin and some imperfections.
Garrosh: I'll fucking do it again!
@@dakojin3811 she's an elf, not human. Of course she looks "perfect"
There is no Warcraft Lore , there are Warcraft books , but from what I’ve heard they are disjointed to . The best we can hope for is simple villains and simple plots so we can be good lil milder hobos . Wow Lore is gone and never coming back . I know a lot of people will try to string the story in wow together like fan fiction and try to make it make sense , but when I play the game , and watch the game , and read what’s in the game ….. there is no lore … we need to stop wasting our time ,
Basically shadowlands for me reminds me of what Saurfang said to Thrall.
This world, well, it looks good... but it's wrong... broken... falling apart...
even in warcraft 3 campaign she was evil. she was using everyone around her. You can say she saved the Forsaken but she was never a "Good" banshee...
As a fellow classic player and paladin. WTF happened to the light? It was a force, like an opposite to the nether. Wrath was best but thats when the lore started crumbling. I was a holy pally and literally spent all spare time trying to kill Sylvannas in classic. Came close multiply times. For the exact reasons you mentioned. It was my duty.
The Forsaken becoming remorseful reminds me of the Contractors from Darker than Black. Not like, WORKING contractors as we know them but in the world of that show, they were people who had their humanity stripped away and in return were granted a power to which they had to pay a price to use and continue using. They were normal people that become emotionless, absolutely rational, and their only goal was self preservation to the point they'd cut ties at the drop of a hat if their mark offered a better deal because they were beholden to nobody and no one but themselves. However over time in the show, though who they were is practically gone for good...they do begin to learn to be human again (albeit slowly and we only see it truly blossom at the end). Contractors we see in the show think back on their old lives, some actually betray the MO of self preservation in the name of loyalty, another gives up the power granted to her and never wants it back because of how much she knows she's hurt others. I don't know about the npcs on the horde side-I was an alliance that faction changed to horde after reaching cap so I never lvled as the horde normally did but I imagine that when you're surrounded by a people who pride themselves on the fact that they were all a bunch of misfits that found a family in each other and even welcomed the Forsaken into their home-it'd take FOR FUCKING EVER...but at some point you'd have some people start to care for the horde back, even if they won't show it.
It would take forever, but I believe even the Forsaken could rediscover their lost humanity and empathy after all the horde has done for them. Like that villain that decides to defend you even if their excuse is a thin as one ply TP.
But yeah I have no idea where to start with Sylvanas. Good on her past self for realizing how fucked she became but she's done so much screwed up shit-but I don't know...WAS there a way to fix this?
A great example of changing the forsaken to having emotion is Lillian Voss
Death Knights and the Forsaken almost are one in the same. Even the first and second generation Death Knights were unfeeling ruthless killing machines, same as the Forsaken. Everything seemed to change during Wrath and it would make sense that if the Lich King perished the undead could start feeling emotions rather than Hate and Pain, but they kinda janked it up in Wrathgate sadly. It would've been an amazing lore moment!
Forsaken questline is the best in WoW, and that's saying a lot because Classic quests/storytelling is amazing pretty much across the board
Blizzard lost its identity, after seeing what overwatch 2 and archlight are, it's clear to me.The disconnect towards the lore is just a symptom of the lack of awareness of the developers and narrative team. They cant even place themselves as players, they lack the empathy towards consumers, they just do the minimum for the maximum of money they can grab, this is their "new" (recurrent) "philosophy"(intent).The plain truth is that this company is a bare corpse of an old friend, which you keep it on your house because you can't cope with fact that is dead, it's sickening. Every fucking time, the same things and people are still locked into a sadisct loop.Clear to see that Ion knows about Pavlovian behavior, nor dogs are so affected like wow players.
(Sorry for my English) I think the problem is that wow was feeding of Warcraft 3 for a long time. After milking the story more than 15 years its realy hard to keep it ,as we known. Thats probably the reason why they wanto start a new era. With that its easier to creat new story arcs and characters .
Yet they would still have to maintain the whole theme of WARcraft, the war element that the franchise centers around.
Not the faction war, but conflict between various forces and smaller factions.
@@kallazjopatsu6846 Legion was a lasting enemy . Yep we need new all time bad boyz, becouse right now we have none.
The forsaken we're like the closest thing to skaven in world of Warcraft. They were victims as much as they are victimizers. They used to revel in their vilenes. Now blizzard wants to write them out to be halfway descent people? Man they really have forgotten their own ip
“Everytime we retcon/worsen the lore we earn a freckle”
An often mistaken part of Wrathgate I think is that while yes the new plague has been ordered by Sylvanas and researched by the apothicaries of Undercity since WoW Classic, the fact that Grand Apothecary Putress was the one who lauched the surprise attack and he was taking orders from Varimathras means a lot. First, both Putress and Varimathras were working behind Sylvanas's back to overthrown her and taking control of Undercity on the Burning legion's behalf. They took part of the creation of a new plague and sabotage it as soon as they got a final product by sneaking into Wrathgate, waiting for Arthas to come out and trying to kill as many of their ennemies as they could, Alliance, Horde and Scurge alikes. When Arthas says ''Sylvanas'' after Putress's speech, he was mistaking this attack for the Forsaken's revenge (with good reasons) while it was in fact the Burning Legion's biggest move in the entire expansion. Because even if the attack failed, they manage to show to the Alliance and especially the Horde how twisted Sylvanas and the Forsaken really were by spoiling their plan and make it look like they were behind this treason at first (wich isn't entirely false). I always felt that this attack was a bit clunky for a 3 years master plan by the Forsaken. Wrathgate cinematic was awesome, don't get me wrong, but all these preparations for a new plague since the first release of the game, and for what? Blowing it all up into a battlefield where most of their targets would have been killed anyway? And Putress speech was a good way to tell every one who would suvive that ''THE FORSAKEN DID IT!!''. Really, I think this attack was Varimathras revenge on Sylvanas by spilling the beans too soon and making her allies turn against her. I don't like that suddenly the Forsaken are feeling remorse either, but I can understand that they're trying by that to look like victims and detach their responsibilities from this mess as much as they can.
I began WoW two weeks after the release of Burning Crusade. By Cata, I'd started hoping the Forsaken would split from the Horde, a third faction, and steadily work to undermine the living. I also hoped to see undead of the other races. Blizzard could have done something with that, lots of conflict and division within the two original factions as well as between them, with Forsaken egging it on.
sylvanas knew no one would ever be on the side of the forsaken so she was never remorseful about what it took to survive and that was kinda powerful. she just kinda sucks now.
I'm such a Sylvanas fangirl I can literally defend her against anything. The Forsaken being "evil" doesn't bother me, I actually like that about them. I always saw Sylvanas as more of an anti-hero though.
Though I agree, Shadowlands lore.. it's just bad and just how much has been changed just makes it all feel odd and inconsistent.
Mate you have it objectively wrong; the Forsaken could absolutely feel emotions in classic, on the contrary that is half of their issue, most of them felt emotions exactly like they did when they were alive, to them, little to anything changed about themselves. This is why being rejected by the other humans hit them hard, and why some outright refused Sylvanas and her Forsaken and went on their own, because they had their own free will. The Forsaken were not evil due to their nature or even by pragmatism, they were malicious and evil because they were treated like scum, so treated everyone else like scum.
I always thought that blizz did the retcons because if they continued to be evil both faction would try to exterminate them.
you also have to say the obvious and bring it into the conversation.
The Forseken have no future.
The only logical future is that they are removed and not part of the 'heroes' of the LIVING THINGS.
They bring too many problems just by being there. The future can only exist if the living peoples wipe it out and fight it, or win it and destroy all living things. there is no coexistence, even if some stupid story writers try to show you.
was unfortunately quite stupid of blizzard to ever make the undead a playable race. now they don't have the balls to remove them, although it would be necessary. at the latest from cata you have seen that.
Still hoping that Blizzard retcon Shadowlands and take it out from the story...
Let’s hope Tyrygosa remains forgotten by the lore devs so she is not turned into a fruit bowl
Sylvanas would of worked so much better as a good leader of the horde, that would of been a plot twist that would of worked.. Everyone thought "Wtf" when she was given the mantle.. Would of been another wtf if she did a good job.. The first time I saw the BFA trailer it gave me chills when she screams "For the Horde" then I played the actual story.. And yup, another bad Horde Warchief. Hell they could of gone utterly nuts and rebirthed the forsaken and made them really gothy/metal looking humans.. Would of been a ballsy move, but lore wise.. Would of been amazing.
I was one of the people who thought that Sylvanas was going to be framed for burning down Darnassus. New Horde leader that leads a faction quite a few people don't trust, and the Night Elves are still mad at the Horde for torching Ashenvale? Perfect time to try to sow distrust in the Horde and anger amongst the Alliance, right? And plot-wise, it would've been great for the Forsaken to rally together to show that, for better or worse, they do care about their place among the Horde. Whether they've grown to like the Horde or they're doing out of pure self-preservation - I think it could've worked.
@@ohnowendigos8804 Itvwouldve worked for miles better than anything we actually got :(
@@markup6394 there's a lot of ideas that could've worked better than what we actually got lol
They waffle back and forth with their characters and end up with a steaming pile. Insecure and inexperienced writers.
Like I've said for over 5 years now, the only explanation to Sylvanas being bipolar af is that she is on her period- Anything crazy, she was on her period. Burning of Teldrassil, she was on her period. Killing of Saurfang, she was on her period. Throwing herself off of ICC, she was on her period
I have a hard time logging into retail the combat just doesn’t hit like classic/tbc it doesn’t have the impact just spamming spells and watching numbers. When you crit in classic you feel it
Pretty sure they keep retconning and giving Sylvanas a 'Get out of jail free' card because some of the lead developers/writers have massive boners for her. They can't bear to see their beautiful pure waifu being lambasted in the community.
I'm not even being facetious here, I genuinely think that may be the major reason. Also a case of, "DeFy expEcTatIons!", because it can't be bad writing if no one sees it coming, right?
Hey Nixiom, have you by chance read the book? that's about the best part of shadowlands.
love how nixxion phrases it, makes it sound like the orcs eat wood XD, jokes aside what you think of the orcs being divided between those who want to keep thrall teachings and those who say "screw it zug zug " wit hgarrosh?, could have been interesting
100% Agreed!! Garrosh was understandable for committing War Crimes but it was all For the Horde but ya they destroyed the legacy of Sylvanas Windrunner and her Forsaken!! At least Blizzard gave you the option to skip the storyline after completion and just grind wquests or such..
i thought that forsaken making that plague for fight against lich king forces, not against everyone. And that wrath gate - of course they were sorry about that attack. They cant tell to world leaders - "i dont care, go to hell lol" maybe there is little politics :D
I think they recruited wrong storytellers to blizzard. Nothing make sense any more. I think they try make women characters like psykos. First they did with Jaina then with sylvanas. As a woman gamer I don't like these stories at all. I wounder if blizzard has an agenda with all these. Making so that females that matters in world craft universe should be all emotional creatures. I'm a female but I can also think rationally. Nothing is ever just black and white when it comes to gender and how people are.
Supposedly the head Narrative guy at blizzard thought GOT 8 was brilliant storytelling.
Sylvanas was quite bad even before she became undead. While she was a ranger general she used her soldiers like tools and had no qualms about sacrificing them to achieve her goals, in the original lore at least, dunno about now...
I don't know a thing about lore since I've always been a PvP andy but it was weird having kael'thas as my bitch while doing campaign
They had to do forsaken a 3rd faction
They really need to rebuild Lordaeron.
A note o. Forsaken and feelings. A lot of them are jaded and down right scornful about their past but at the same time there have been quests that had them showing some amount of positive emotion... granted on some weird things... like getting one dude a pet murloc... but that's besides the point. The lore is a mess, the established material only matters some of the time and honestly it's clear the righting team isn't othering to keep details straight
I agree with a lot of this but the Undead definitely feel emotions. Thats the entire reason they are after revenge to begin with. If they were objective they just wouldn't care. It's always been a bit weird on the forsaken tbh.
Miss the Sylvanas from wc3.. and Garrosh did absolutely nothing wrong. Times change…. 😂
He did 1 thing wrong:
Going full "Only Orcs" mode instead of accepting the Horde for what it has become: an Alliance of different outcast factions.
I agree with Nixxiom here. The story and lore in World of Warcraft has been really bad ever since the end of Cataclysm (and that includes most of the books as well). It has a lot of inconsistencies and Blizzard changes and retcons the lore so that they can release new expansions, so its difficult to continue to be invested in the story and lore of World of Warcraft. Very disappointing! This is one of the major reasons why I stopped playing World of Warcraft.
Sylvanas is nothing but a silly little girl and selfish to the max.
She doesn't accept what has been done to her and can't get over the fact that she is what she is now. Being so selfish, she now wants the whole world to 'suffer' as she has suffered.
She is nothing more.
She was literally the Lich King 2.0 with her motives to turn everyone in the world as undead, except yea, her motives were extremely petty compared to Lich King himself, who wants whole of Azeroth as his undead kingdom.
Not saying Sylvanases story was executed well but in her current lore she didnt fight just for the horde but for life itself, thats pretty good in my eyes but then again I dont even play the game so whats my oppinion matter.
Big True
Because it takes creativity to make up a story that fits the old lore and blizard writers are uncreative
Garrosh was orc hitler if you count his racism towards non-orcs and went on full troll genocide.
The Forsaken turning 'better' overtime make's sense and give's them a depth. They have been accepted by the Horde and treated fairly. because of that, many started to appreciate their new allies and over time felt like true members of the Horde. That all does make sense, especially the division between those who wanted to plague the living and those who just just wanted to live and let live.
At that point, Sylvanas was forced to either choose a side and plunge the Forsaken in to a civil war against the Horde and the 'good' side of her people, or she could play the long game.
So, until Shadowlands, everything made sense and was fairly well planned out by the writers, in my humble opinion. Shadowlands is where they totally fucked it up.
Garrosh did everything he did for the Horde, but let's not forget that he was a racist xenophobe if someone wasn't an orc.
Garrosh was literally a fascist who did everything wrong such as suppressing his own people, being racist and being a dictator. I know "Garrosh did nothing wrong is a meme" but its 2022 its time to let the meme die. That being said his character was definitely better written than Sylvanas was the last few years.
Although his infamous and most known characterization in MoP was born of misscommunication between Afrisiabi and rest of the narrative team between Cata and MoP.
@@kallazjopatsu6846 Still a fascist though.
True
Morally grey, dood xD
Probably the worst wow story,writers just dosen't care or they suck so bad.
Sylvanus did nothing wrong
How did Garrosh nothing wrong dude?!?! Garrosh was a f-ing racist!!!
Have you ever played WoW or do you just sympathize with that ideology? xD
Read the Sylvanas book and you'll understand the whole story
We shouldn't even have to read the damn book to understand the story of the game. If the most important parts of the game's story happen outside of it, like books or comics, then the game's story plainly sucks. The books should be an addition to the main story, giving additional context and insight, not an requirement to understand wtf is happening in the game...
I don't know how i don't why everybody think sylvanas is a bad char. I mean , she never change she was always like that. Garrosh in the other hand ( just bcs he is a man with big muscle ) is stupid. Yes you heard me. Yes Shadowland is not perfect. But there are great ideas in it. But if shadowland sucks , to me it's because there was a lot of potential but too quickly dispatched or badly exploited. For example the fact that the eternals are robots ( the fuck ? ). But i understand your feeling.
Sylvanas burns Teldrassil ( The capital of Night Elf at that point ) that was full of civilians because the jailer told her to do it.
Garrosh isin't just an Brute stupid orc , if you levelded in Stonetalon Mountains ( Horde Side ) . You will see that he was , i think , the orc with most honor.
So ye , Sylvanas is a stupid bitch while Garrosh is a Chad.
Again STONETALON MOUNTAINS QUESTLINES is not canon , the dev themselves told us it was a mistake bcs they forget to remove it. Bcs the questline show that garrosh had honor except it is not what the dev wanted to do with garrosh deal with it. Sylvanas is bettr
@@leliondesiles5155 Sylvanas is NOT better.
She became the most shittiest character ever.