LFG and especially LFR really get overhated, like the problems in the community didn't come from the community itself. M+ did more to hurt the game more than LFR ever did, because while LFR just sat there and vibed M+ made this already toxic and elitist community even more vitriolic and try-hard. The shit I have seen just leveling alts in low level dungeons, of people trying to speed-run it and cut corners like their anus might explode if they don't or bullying new players for not having heirlooms and not having the dungeons memorized like they were studying for a test is astounding. As seen by the amount of exploitive bullshit in Classic such as AoE farms and Boosting through dungeons, it isn't the presence of LFG or LFR that hurts the game it's the players themselves.
@@martinw2235 when it was designed as a STEP into raiding and not a map that you grind the exact same gear of Haste Mastery 20 different levels. That’s not fun at all. Dungeons were always a leveling tool and introduced you into the hardest pve content that’s raids.
@@Zutang777 that’s what they were, but things can evolve. It was a bad use of assets. It’s much better now as a third pillar of the endgame. Lots of people have an hour for a couple dungeons here and there; they do not have 3+ hours multiple nights a week.
M+ is proof some wow fan like getting pegged by blizzard it the worst sistrm ever made for anything to TIMER A DUNG RUN and make ppl kill near all TRASH MOBS plus weeklys retarded random ability changed to mobs is so fucking stupid plus the once you start and somebody leave bs you are fucked and a lose doesnt give the key back but gives you one lower.
When 90% of the community is at level 60, or level 70 sitting in the main cities. The 1-50 world was EMTY during those times. Your community didn’t care about you or if your leveling experience was any fun. What ruined the experience was the expansions that didn’t let new players or players max roll new characters where they could engage low level players. LFD was a leveling tool to combat the ever expansive mmo LFR is a different concept as it’s at end game and where the community is.
Thats why blizzard should focus on world content and make it so there is content to do while leveling and not only at end game other wise endgame is the only game
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming hopefully they STOP at the classic trilogy and work out horizontally. For example making new classes and exclusive leveling content for races and other forms of progression like more level 60,70, and 80 raids. Reasons to start a NEW character.
@@Zutang777 ive been playing on turtle wow. Its a vanilla+ experience. Vanilla with gobs and high elf races. New custom zones that were originally supposed to be in vanilla. Custom dungeons and raids. New raid gonna come out soon called scarlet citadel. They even have custom quests in not just new zones, but old zones too. They even fleshed out bloodsail rep and made them a real faction to quest with and have a quarter master / vendor
You probably play on a high pop server and are a streamer. Finding ppl to play with is easy through your eyes. Not so easy solo. Lfg made it easier to get groups and do content. This superficial rep construct you created is in your own little world. You could report ninja looters even with lfg. Frivolous justifications for not wanting lfr. I'm just as capable of filtering out ppl via lfr than trade chat. If your basing your experience off initial interactions with ppl then your part of the problem
See as the “kid last picked for dodgeball” I see both sides. Retail and classic ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. I’ve played since WOTLK and I legit was NEVER allowed to raid or could join raids my first raid was the day LFR came out even having BIS pre raid. I’d get removed and replaced due to being none meta class. Heck with a few bis maxed heros on classic today I still don’t make the cut for raid groups…. So LFR was a gift from heaven to me. BUT I do know it shot down a lot of friendship building and community building. I agree it’s the people who are the issue not the system if people didn’t act like assholes the LRF/D would be amazing
Literally didn't answer the question other than , "gatekeeping is fun to do to people who aren't in huge guilds" and "this one time this guy ninja looted a thing and in my mind i was the police who told the whole server and decided the fate of his game from now unto eternity". Lets not take into consideration at all about how huge guilds keep people out of stuff by gear checking them, and cornering the market on selling people runs thus making it harder for normal people to progress at all. Lets take into account the fringe people who ninja loot but lets not take into account the people who lie about someone being bad or ninja looting and just talk shit on the server about others...you know...because having a bunch of video game police shouting about people is awesome and we should always take their word for it. i understand the whole cross server thing, but unfortunately this game and its charging people to change from dead servers fucks people hard. Period. Put in the LFG tool, it was fun. Take out cross server if you want ...hell....all of this can be saved by just having mega servers and not a bunch of dead ass servers to begin with to charge people to move from.
You basically have zero understanding how current classic works. 90% of the player base are on mega servers and no one cares if someone ninja looted some item in a heroic. Just to get in this run(as a DPS) you must sit in chat for half an hour and sometimes longer to build your group only to promise unneeded items to the tank/healer just so you can start. I see in no way how this is preferable to clicking on RDF and doing your thing till the group is formed. You could put limitations in like you must form a group the old fashion way the first time for each one but to say that it is more rewarding to take an hour to start some heroic you have done 43 times is myopic.
In Denmark we have a saying that goes "Don't paint Satan on the wall" Which goes for when people make a problem bigger than it is. Which is exactly what people do with LFG and LFR I think it's a good tool because the rewards from normal and heroic dungeons are hardly worth spending 15-20minutes at best trying to gather a group for in trade chat, if you even get any rewards or loot at all. And LFR makes people experience an easymode of raids without having to join a guild and spent an entire evening in a raid and being dictated how to play your character because "there's one one right way to play your class and spec, otherwise get the kick" . We got mythic raids that are fun and makes it worth spending time looking for a group and travel to the dungeon and plenty of comunication goes along with it. And stop complain as if Blizzard have completely removed normal, heroic and mythic raids. There's plenty of raid guilds to join where you can experience the communication, group gathering and traveling. And the loot is better than LFR. Basically, complaining about LFR and dungeon finder is the same as having a big ice cream and then get angry seeing someone with a small ice cream because you don't think they deserve it if they don't work to get a big one.
I was just about to say this system works just fine in XIV. It's not the system but the tryhards that are the problem. I never liked grouping for dungeons/raids in WoW without the finder because people are jerks and never let me join because I played hunter and hunters got the worst rap. Meanwhile in XIV, if I'm in a group and I say it's my 1st time people either are like "k, these are the mechanics" or "it's fine just enjoy the ride" when in a bigger group. Admitting you're new to a dungeon/raid in WoW basically blacklists you from most groups even ones saying they're beginner friendly.
Sorry bro, couldn't get past 3 minutes. Different times. That is the key here. When WoW came out I was a much younger man with no family and fewer responsibilities. I love that they implemented classic version of WoW, however the Dungeon finder\LFG is a Godsend. If I have 2 hours on a weeknight to play, the last thing I want to do is spend that time spamming the LFG channel. This is especially more important depending on what stage of the game you're in. For example, if you're just starting Outlands some of those lower dungeons are hard to find groups for because a lot of people are basically only logging in on raid nights. I've seen this with several guilds as well. I would agree with leaving out LFR, but as far as DF\LFG Blizzard and the rest of us have to take into account the demographic has changed since the original release. The player base for Classic isn't 16-20 year olds - it's veterans who are in a completely different life stage.
I don’t have a single issue with LFD, I’ve met so many people from the US that I’d never have known before being from aus, it helped me expand friendships and now make lifelong friends, yea there have been some absolutely awful experiences, but meeting new friends, outweighs all the bad, not having LFD actually makes me not want to play Wrath. It helped me overcome some of my social anxiety and pushed me without being absolutely full on and in, it’s a better tool than a lot of people give it credit for, without LfR I really don’t think I would have met as many genuine people who I hold dear to this day and play different games with
My friends and I tend to play games in a relatively small group, but sometimes it is not always possible to have enough people online to get a full group going, so it is nice to use a tool that allows us to fill when needed. We are more interested in enjoying the world together than making online friends.
You can still fill from trade chat, I don't really see what your point is. And if you don't want to be part of a community, there's loads of games out there which suit (i.e. not mmos).
I found an RFC group in 3 minutes as a DPS using the already ingame LFG tool. All they need to do is break boosting like they did in SoM. That's the heart of the cancer more so than LFD
@@Preacher_. No it wouldn't cause you're missing a very very big problem in point Like it or not at this point there's no ketchup mechanisms in TBC. And even if you're a level 70 you still have to go through the starter gear grind and most people are done with that nobody has a reason really even to run heroic unless it's the daily. So it's not just the boosting leveling It's also the fact that most people are just done with a lot of the beginning and games. On top of that yeah OK so what you're saying is staring at LFG buildings and board for hours on end to get a group for a heroic or something is socialization. Well what if you just never have anyone join you What if all you end up doing is just spamming that all day and nothing happens which by the way I've seen happen who wants to spend 2 hours plus just spamming trade chat. What's your experience then OK cool I just get to look at a bulletin board all day that's fun? On top of that if you haven't rated yet or even been In something like cares and people expect you to pay gold for GK p's to get geared up before you can even hope to be at a decent of gear level 2 get into groups. Especially at this point Guilds are mostly established and yes there are pugs but most of them expect you to at least done the dungeon at least once they don't want to have to talk to you they don't want to have to socialize and explain you the fights are any such things of that nature so no. Like it or not this community It's not the same community that it was back in 2007 it's just that simple
@@oliverwarren1074 ah, the ''if you're not engaged with a community 100% of the time in MMOs maybe you shouldn't play them'' mentality, shut up, that mentality is one of the reasons why New World failed.
I dont have time anymore for raids and guilds and i used to have alts that were healers and tanks and just spam LFG for fun. I love the 5man content and it's hard to get it consistently otherwise. I dislike the way the classes play now so modern wow is not something I'm interested in.
The difference is back then we were all young some of us we didn’t have jobs we went to school got home and played the shit out of wow. The time factor keeps me away. LFG and lfr would be nice.
I just love how the comment section is pretty much in agreement that Nixxiom opinion is wrong and is totaly biased. I totaly agree. For each person that i know that think LFG is bad, i know 10+ people that would not do dungeons or raids if these options didn't exist. Either because of time, or because antisocial, most people nowdays actualy enjoy the game thanks to these features.
LFR was added so because only 2% of the player base were experiencing the full content before hand. Much time and money is spent developing raids and to get more people experiencing it is a good thing. The leet raiders have heroic and mythic to get the best gear so its a fair system.
The fun part about games like these is the journey. LFR is a skip-to-the-end button, it lacks substance, it leaves a dissatisfying taste in your mouth - because there was no adversity to it, there was no progression to it. It's eating the desert without tasting the steak.
@@MicrocosmicExperience The problem is not everybody has the skill, or time, or patience, and they are happy enough to use that "skip" button as you yourself called it... Just like Nixxiom here, you are seeing this from YOUR priviledged point of view. It is great to be in a guild, and raid heroic and mythic. But not everybody can, not everybody want, and some don't have the skill, or are just extremely introverts to the point they don't even join voice chats. So just because YOU think THIS is the way they are suppoused to play the game, does not mean that your way works for others. It would be great if everybody could do heroic raiding, but if they can't, just let them at least be able to see the content tru LFR.
So Nixxiom answer is make it so 95% of the community doesn't see the content. Most people don't raid in guilds as they don't have the time to set a set time for raiding. Those who are do are in guilds and raid. Removing lfr just fucks over the people who don't and does nothing for those already raiding in a guild.
Nothing you said had to do with LFG; but with LFR and cross-server-tech... There's nothing bad with LFG. However, spending hours creating groups and running to dungeons doesn't fit the world we live in and it's really poor user-experience and game design. Also, we live in a different time, with different technology and community. We have a min-max culture that have made 1.000+ videos on TH-cam the last weeks about how to min-max WoTLK Classic in every way possible - a game not yet released. We also live in a time where basically everyone on the globe have access to WoW, and also in a time where it is so easy to create and execute bots. In poor countries, some people even make a living by playing/botting WoW to sell gold to the "rich-world" who play and waste money on this game for fun. And Blizzard....is not even a gang of nerds that wanted to make a good game anymore. They are a business that strive to make as much money as possible. They sit in a room; not discussing what would make a better game or what players want, but adopting scientifical proven strategies to make players hooked and spend money - like it was a casino. There are so many problems that I could write a book about it.
The real reason the game has gone down in popularity consistently isn’t the sense of community, it’s that the game hasn’t been special for 10+ years. When it came out most people played it for the novelty of interacting with friends and strangers, something very few games did well at the time. Nowadays, so many other, better games do that, so why would you play wow? I’ll admit, I still enjoy the game, but it’s a game that was fun for everyone, now its a game that mmo fans play. That’s why there are so few new people, not because it’s a bad game, (although when looking at gaming as a whole, its pretty shabby) it’s because other games do the concept better: from online shooters to fighting games. Even if they brought everything that made classic fun back into the main game, nobody would care, nobody wants to play an outdated game with 20 year old design philosophies, when they can play pretty much anything else for cheaper and have more fun. TLDR: game isn’t losing players because of community loss, it’s because the game isn’t as special in concept as it used to be.
For me its the fact that over time the rpg was diminished from mmorpg. And soin enough the mmo aspect. It became a single player campaign. And lfg was just to get in and get out. No communication needed. No adventure to get the quests nor even travel to get there. Walking up and traversing to the lair of a dragon. All of that is gone. And thats why the game is bad.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming I honestly think the games always been pretty weak, the gameplay isn’t really all that fun, more so the sense of accomplishment. There’s a reason the only people that play it are so old compared to the rest of the gaming demographic. People my age don’t want to play a slow and rewarding game, they want a game that’s made to be fun. MMOs are dying as a whole because their player base is getting to old to play games. When things like discord became more widely accessible and products like Xbox live, why would you talk to friends in a game where it takes hours to get something done versus a game where you can hop in a match and have a lot of fun for 10 minutes? It’s just outdated and being phased out as time goes on.
@@mynameiscal3478 classic was very very successful. As was several blizz-like vanilla/tbc/ and one or two wrath servers because of the gameplay. Vs the diminished "new" version of the game. The last 4 expacs have failed and get even worse. What new games do people enjoy alot? And continue to play even after a year or two. Even go back to after a break? Games that are well developed rpg / sandbox games with loads of replay ability and content updates and challenge. Example; minecraft (with mods and sandbox / rpg elements) skyrim. (Replayability, rpg and mods) ark (mods. Randmoness. Challenges and new content). Gta 5 with rp, i think mods? And sandbox. Plenty of other examples too. But blizz started to make wow a themepark game. Most themeparks ganes have nothing I described. You play it. Enjoy it. Then your done and leave. Look at games like uncharted. Great story. Action. But its basically a 5 hour movie. You see it then your done. No differences in replay ability. Thats why alot of mmos are dead after successful launches If wow became MORE ; rpg, sandbox, challenging, ect. It can extend the life of the game drastically for most people
@@mynameiscal3478 You're all wrong buddy and Nixxiom is very close to be right on. World of warcraft, like most MMORPGs, is a productivity game, a progression game, an achievement game. People play and like it because as humans we're designed to feel good when we're productive and when we achieve special things, hard things. Adding features that facilitate these achievements make them less valuable, some even meaningless. The loss of all these social aspects is a big loss for sure but the loss of the rewarding feelings you get when you finally achieve the things you worked so long and hard to get is the biggest loss of them all. Without it there's no motivation to spend time doing all the tasks needed to reach the goal. Which is what MMORPG players do most of the time, little tasks that bring you closer and closer to a bigger goal. I'll add that no game is very "special" in itself. They're all part of a family (RPGs, FPS, bla bla bla..) and all got their own pros and cons. "Fun" games don't last long because their players will jump on the next "fun" boat. MMORPGs have loyals and invested players due to their nature. That's why some of us have been playing WoW for 15 years. You don't retain a player base for 15 years because your game is "special", you do it simply because you found the right recipe. Many MMORPGs lived and died during the lifetime of WoW and to this day, in my opinion, classic WoW until WOTLK is still the most complete of them due to the quality of professions, PVP, PVE, social interactions, etc.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming wow as been a theme park since BC. The thing with replay ability is it has to have incentive. In wows case, it’s gear. Sure the social aspect is gone from group finder or whatever but the “replayability” you describe has always been there and has never left. Now this is all from what I have seen and experienced recently, as I haven’t played this game for half my life as some people do, but I think it’s pretty clear to see. Sure you could argue progressive raiding is less of a theme park than what we have today, as gear from the previous raid isn’t really necessary for later ones, but the whole “theme park” thing has been present since BC came out.
I like dungeon finder, but think Raid finder should go out the window. The biggest issue in current classic is the boosting BS. I think they need to find a way to get rid of that. There's a big difference in helping your friend through something vs charging people to afk and get XP.
Lfg is fine. We live in a "pick up and play" type of gaming culture. Nobody cares about "muh community" or "making friends" anymore. That's in the past. If they took away lfg tool I'd never play again and many would feel the same.
@@thorbeorn4295 those people are playing because they didnt get to experience it because they didnt play back then. Hell even turtle wow's lfg where it finds the group but you still have to walk to the dungeon is way better because you all still travel together. Grab and share quests. Ect. And no one leaves over a wipe.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming I play classic to replay old content, not to experience some vague idea of "community" . I don't want wotlk to be changed because of a vocal group of casuals.
See my thing I understand the community and friendships are far lower quality compared to classic. BUT if it was not for LFG/D I’d never see the inside of a single raid since I don’t play meta classes. I play classes that I enjoy and peeps would be like sir you are not a mage, sir your not a rouge sir your not a warrior ‘kicked from group’
@@AsuraMidori To me its just about time, I have like 2h a day to play games and considering the number of games out there, I seriously have no time or need to look for people to play with, the "hit a button and there you go" is what I need.
@@xxan84 Then you don't deserve to be in the raid, flat out, When i started playing Bc, the most i ever saw was Shattered halls in BC, i never saw the inside of Black temple, you didn't earn it. If you really only have 2hrs WoW is not for you lol. And even if let's say you did find a guild to raid with, at best you'd just be a raid logger, just logging on to do raids and after raid is over, goodbye see you guys next week.. so no if you don't deserve with the time and effort to go into a raid/communicate with a guild, then you shouldn't see the raid.
@@xxan84 Idk how long you've been playing WoW But i'm telling you Lfd and Lfr have ruined this game, it's just a fact look at the sub numbers, even though for you it would've been the hardest to play the game, because in Wrath and Bc you'd have to actualy communicate ,travel to the dungeon and to theraid, and invest some time into your character, this is when the game was at it's greatest, it was the eny of not the just in the MMO Genre but even in gaming in general. The Fact is WoW back in the day if going by your schedule would not have been the game for you, and that's fine, not everyone is going to play, but it's killing this game overall with that mindset.
@@Nomansland77 People change, times change, people grow up, they no longer have time to play 10h a day because they have families. If you are one of those people who do nothing but play video games, that is you, the rest of us don't have time to wait and form parties and what not. Most people play casually. If I have (like a lot of people) 1-2h max daily of play time, I am not investing 50% of that into running around and making parties, we, casuals, just quit. If you think that LFX was the detriment of WoW I don't agree. Multiple other factors impacted the game.
without LFG and LFR majority of players would never experience a lot of content created by Blizzard... Raids especially take so much time and effort just to organize only people without jobs and family can really participate regularly... its like a 2nd job and not many of us want come home from 1st job just to rush to the 2nd - which isnt even paying the bills... The problems WoW has are coming from lack of innovation, same old systems since eternity, there is just nothing new in the game, each and every expansion feels the same, grind to max level, then grind reputations, power source meters and whatever there is.... Dragonflight doesnt seem to change anything, will be certainly worth to try out at the start, but later it will get even worse than now with the playerbase... there are so many fresh and innovative games actually worth playing (Elden Ring dont look at me) people just wont spend countless hours doing boring world quests m when they can have fun somewhere else.
I simply dont agree. The bigest succes of wow was when WOLK was released.!!! The introduction of the random LFG tool was one of the main reason people played back then. People with diffrent gear set diffrent skill could play together. People dont remember but i have a good memory..!! The player base back in those days start to change . The Introduktion of wolkt with many daylies, quantity of quests and stuff, like achiements etc..many of those focused away from the social activity. Gamers simple dont have the time to run and do some dungeon for hours. The pace of the game is faster and more individualistic regardless of the LFG tool. The time consuming was one of the biggest issues in vanilla, the lack of things to do was the issue in TBC. Wolk wanted to solv both issues when wolkt ws introduced. The LFG tool was necessary and it will be necessary to keep with the pace of the game.. Not everyone have 3 hrs / day to play today . This change is a huge misstake and will have a bad impact on the game. I think classic Wolk will survive less that classic TBC without the random tool. Im afraid to say that the random LFG tool is even more needed today than never, A huge miscalculation and a major misstake to change it,
Classic was fun to play, generally a new experience for most people. People thinking lfg ruined the game are thinking too much. If classic had lfg, no one would have batted am eye back in the day. It's just different than how early MMO culture was that the nostalgia ridden old men are crying doom over it.
You know you are right when people made addons for Classic that literaly replicated the LFD functionality LOL. Remember that? But elitist snowflakes will try to convince you that their way is the only way! That noone wants LFD lol. "How dare casuals enjoy MY game?!"
My only problem with this is, I want dun finder for lower lvl duns. I dont mind not having it for higher or end game (screw lfr) make it stop working at 60 even but RIGHT NOW and going into wrath, people are only boosting low lvls. Its all anyone mostly doing even in bigger servers for lvling. No one remember those boosters, they even go afk with WA commands and going into Wrath as said, we only gonna be boosting lvl again but with DKs now lol
OK speaking from somebody who has played the game since 2004 I understand what you're saying to a degree OK however. All the examples that you give No disrespect but don't work anymore Yeah back in the day if someone ninja looted something You're completely right however. This isn't 2007 anymore And speaking From someone that has seen this happen several times by the way especially when we have servers with a population of 30000 people. Nobody is going to care for one For all different players now I mean we could have a huge Discussion about raidlogs That wasn't in tbc or classic but here we are. The way we play the game is more goal oriented and more goal focused People weren't killing SSC in an hour Back in the day The list goes on. As far as lfd and lfr Are 2 different things One is beginner entry content like it or not. The other is end game content on top of that there's a very big difference between putting 5 people randomly together and 25 people randomly together. On top of that most dungeons Even before the heroic nerve people don't really talk anyway Unless something goes wrong The reality is TB C and Ralph are both finished andsolved games. The journey doesn't have a meaning anymore like it or not there are people that liked the journey but most just want to get to cap and start the gear grind. There's a reason why blizzard hasn't made leveling the main part of the game in a long time why people hate it As far as If socialization and having to get a group together 1st of that's Assuming you can get a group together to begin with so you're telling me spamming an LFD board. Looking for the same group That could take you 2 and a 1/2 hours to get and if you get to the dungeon the tanks a jerk or somebody has to leave and then the group breaks up and then you have to start that process all over again is fun. It's fun not to be able to do anything else and just sit In a major city to keep spamming to make a group if that even happens that's fun that's social interaction how. And aside from gained to no people yeah that was the case when people didn't know how to run the dungeons but like it or not we play the game very differently very differently simply put the game isn't hard not anymore. At least not beginning content like it or not people know everything It's a 16 year old game. On top of that you also have to take an account the player bases that were playing cataclysm and cataclysm and wrath were all different people than those that played TBC and Vanilla. There's people that have joined the game and every single expansion in it yes even BFA And shadowlands Yes scary I know. My point is the way you're describing the game simply people don't play it that way anymore I mean we could just look one minute at the world buff meta Deprove that you don't need world bus to kill rag. But it goes a heck of a lot faster you don't have to kill naxx In 45 minutes but people do it. My point is the way the player base is right now is not the way the player base was in 2007 and I say I'm pro RFD. And quite frankly Gear score Was a million times worse and the achievement Spam was a million times worse for the game Then RFD ever could have been. Anyway that might take
No, the LFG tool is what I use to find arena partners. Either we get solo que or we keep LFG, because I'm not going back to spamming general chat to find an arena partner that might leave after one loss.
FFXIV has it and the community doing just fine. Funny, right? Almost like the feature isn't the problem. Almost like it is the community itself + how the game are designed to be endgame race fest that give people no time to chill is the real problem.
The part where he explains that someone would leave grp, because others dont know the mechanics, sounds like himself. he wont bother with you if you havent played since 2004. this guy needs to get off his toxic high horse. "something is bad because it made things easier for ppl to get things done". Thats the whole 11 min video.
So I disagree with LFD being bad now LFR is whole different thing and hated it when it was added in Cata. LFD they say it ruins community but back in Wrath I met so many cool ppl through it and alot of ppl I got grouped up with we be came friends and after the dungeon we did other this. So to me it helps community come together.
Exactly, three presses of a button and you got a discord server up and running specifically people that want to run dungeons. It's just a tool, LFG is something that's not meant to be feared.
11 mins ranting about 2 OPTIONAL parts of the game. You don't have to do LFR, you still have 3 other difficulties. You don't have to use LFD, infact on live it's a waste of time (in wotlk it was just for badge farm), just buy green boes from the AH and skip to mythics. Lfr is not for you or me or anyone else that actually consumes wow content outside of the game. It's for everyone to see a form of the content that matches their skill set (or time to play) and be a part of the community, and they are awarded with gear that is outpaced by sandworn gear.
I'm sorry, I love your videos Nixxiom, I do. However, I refuse to watch this one. Both features were not the problem, stop being the typical content creator that's causing more problems than necessary. It's great your expressing your opinion, but unfortunately, the rest of the community begs to differ. LFG is a must have tool, regardless of what you or others against it think. LFR on the other hand, I, personally, can take or leave (but I'm sure alot of folks would like it included in the game as well), so I'm not gonna argue against them. I will definitely argue against content creating meanies who are deliberately killing the game, intentionally, for the remainder who want it. Sorry, but I've said my peace more than I wanted. You take care.
I know people that didn't got to raid during WotLK because either their skills werent good enough, or their gear was not good so people wouldn't invite them, and is because of tools like LFR that they got to experience the end game. I myself was raiding on my main with my guild, and leading 4 to 5 pug groups each week back during WotLK. I did organize pugs so my gf and a few friends could raid. A particular anecdote is that, i took over a friend's raid group, because a) they needed a tank/leader, and b) her group was actualy bad.... I had to explain the fight EVERY pull EVERY week... But, i am so proud to say, that, all of them were so happy when they finaly managed to beat LK 10 man. This may not have been a big accomplishment for many people... but for this particular group of fellas, it was a very big moment, and to have been a part of that, made me realy happy. I got SO many whispers that day, thanking me... it was so moving. But not everybody was as lucky. As we got into Cata, i met so many people tru LFD that told me how they couldn't manage to even see the raids...
@@josejuanandrade4439 Beautifully worded and I agree 100%. If I got to be apart of a crowd like you, I'd personally thank you as well. It's very rare to find someone who is patient enough to help others understand without getting angry at them and telling them to play better. Yelling and demanding someone to do what you want doesn't make the person or anyone in general have the motivation to do so. If a person is careful/respectful/mindful of the crowd they are catering to, then the likely chance of you succeeding is far greater than the person who is telling someone off and demanding progress on the base of "Because I said so!!!" Nevertheless, I see your point and I'm absolutely not disagreeing one way or the other :)
Personally, I was hoping to get into raiding for the first time ever, but without the LFD feature, motivation to even attempt that went out the window before I could even give the expansion a second-chance. I played Vanilla and TBC twice now and never had the motivation nor time to raid. The raiding scene in those expansions didn't appeal to me in the least. Wrath classic was gonna be the ideal expansion that I would have loved to chance raiding, but now I won't beable to because I lack the motivation/drive to even propell myself back into a world of grind feast without the feature. I already spent two expansions, twice, doing what I did the first time... barely getting past a certain level and not doing Dungeons as much due to time restraint. Even as a teenager I still didn't have the time to even consider raiding... so in the end, having responsibilities and a life doesn't make that any better. Life takes priority over hobbies/past-time activities. They could have roped so many casual players, like myself, back into their world and now... they've killed the hype/chance for that opportunity. Ah well... what can you do but sit and watch in silence as the game spirals down a path of no return. The original Wrath will always hold a dear place in my heart, but without certain elements, it's lost any meaning to be considered a worth-while expansion as well as considered 'classic' anymore.
@@Rakzahn I know....that's why I said "option". Every type of player should have the ability to play the game however they wish. For me, dungeons and raids are means to advance the story, I've been playing throughout Northrend, I just wanna kill Arthas on my own time. If you like the grouping part of the game, good for you, just don't put me in the same corner.
@@MoAlhulail the issue is that people take the road of least resistance. And if more and more people use the tool then no one can group naturally. And if you ask to form a group in general chat you will be mocked and told to just use the lfg tool
@@RhadaGhast100 Nothing is wrong with LFG. Is just a tool that enables lots of people to play the game. The only thing wrong are the elitist snowflakes that don't want other people have fun in any other way then the one they deem "right".
I dont think it was a bad idea, maybe if they had only had it so it would only work on your specific realm and not cross realm, maybe that would of helped.
All they need to do is break boosting like they did in SoM. That's the heart of the cancer more so than LFD. That being said, the game doesn't need LFD early on... Hell, I found an RFC group in 3 minutes as a DPS using the already ingame LFG tool. It'll be just like that in wrath. The only time LFD might come into play, is if the game plummets and the population drops off.
boosting and gdkp spam on lfg channel is such a joy to suffer through to find one real dungeon run,,that is the extent of the social interaction, i played wow 2006 to current, no benefits to be seen socially, i ended my sub at end of may over lfd and dual spec removal in wrath.
Same bs arguments to get rid of something that doesn't effect them in any way at all. The game would of died off a long time ago without LFR and LFD.. and it's always the try hard lifers that don't even use the systems that cry for their removel "I don't use it, others are not allowed to have fun and get gear if it isn't how I want them too"
I feel one of the reasons WoW(both classic and current) is less fun than before is the mentality promoted by the community, generally. People min max this game like it's a second job, they behave more like project managers than raiders..
LFG and LFR are the easiest targets to point and throw shade towards. In fact they are extremely convenient and useful tools and I only recently discovered this after having to use them due to not having a guild because mine died. Before this point I never had any reason to use either so I didn't know how people without guilds or groups of friends felt
It was great in vanilla and tbc but the player base grew up and classic proves. Most people don’t have an hour to sit around and hopefully find a group before their play times over anymore. Sad truth of an aging gaming industry
I'm happy they are removing LFG. But I would like to see the Group Finder tool be implemented in Wrath. I think that is a much better tool and wouldn't feel out of place in the Classic game.
I agree with you. LFG is a bad tool for the world and the community. Most people will support LFG because it is convenient to press a button and find a group. I think you're right on the points you presented and I know Kevin Jordan also has the same opinion. For people to look through chat helps to interact and communicate. Pushes players out of their comfort zone if they're afraid to start a group in their own. That's why so many people want to have it. Today players are spoiled and don't want to wait to form a group, they don't want to teach other players how to do boss fights or mechanics, they rather kick them and find someone who knows how to do it. They don't want to travel to dungeons, but be summons right into it. I really hope ActiBlizz will stay true to their word and keep LFG out of the game, but alas I think they will bend in and give players want they want, which is a bad decision that will lead towards where wow retail is right now. Also boosts are a terrible idea and their reasoning for it as well. If you want to play with friends, they will help you level and play with you no matter the level. Help you with gear and so on. We played in 2006 without boosts and it was fine.
I would say it’s two fold, myself as an example would never find a group to do a raid and my first time raiding WAS when LFR. I’ve played since WOTLK so I can’t say much on the dungeon finder. But I was never accepted into groups even with friends and guilds for raids. Forcing me to do nothing but pvp, gold farm or content I can solo. And to this day I now love raids but still can’t find heroic groups willing to accept me since I play DK and elemental whammy and those classes are not wanted….so the LFR let me actually play and enjoy the game but I know people like you have more issues then a scrub like me with little experience since I only started in WOTLK
At the same time I understand it did weaken the community aspect. So it’s kinda mixed for me. Heck I’ve lvled 4 toons to max with BIS in classic and TBC classic and not once was I allowed to join raids due to not bing a mage or not being meta despite having all the gear and swap gear with good stats and correct resistances… been playing classic since release date…. And even today when asking for groups I was told no or was removed due to my class and told that in a DM….
At this point, the LFG tool cannot be removed from the modern game. It's too much engrained into the modern-WoW culture. But, thank goodness, they've learned from their horrible mistakes and are not going to put LFG in Classic WotLK, despite it having been there all those years ago. Great decision on Blizzard's part. Restart WoW, but try to leave out all the mistakes along the way as they re-release expansions.
@@NixxiomLIVE So, aside from LFR (which I agree was a bad addition to the game as it spoils endgame progression somewhat by allowing players to skip over too much content they'd otherwise probably enjoy experiencing,) I don't really see what the big problem with the LFG/LFD tool is? In its current state in retail, you can only use it to find groups for normal and heroic dungeons anyway, the highest difficulty of those dungeons still requires you to find a group yourself at max level. I propose that in Wrath Classic a revised version of LFD should be introduced - one that only allows players to queue for normal difficulty dungeons as long as they've visited the entrance/meeting stone for the dungeons at least once. I would also remove the random dungeon system so as to not conflict with my previous suggestion. This version of the system would kill 2 birds with one stone essentially, allowing players to get into dungeons quicker for levelling, and would help address one of the many problems with dead realms in classic. That being said, I personally would be perfectly happy for them to implement the system as it was in Wrath. Let's face it, heroic dungeons in Wrath were super easy anyway, so the difficulty level isn't even really a factor when it comes to this debate. Barring LFR, I can only see positives from the LFD system in classic wrath onwards and honestly, genuinely disagree with your negative points.
@@NixxiomLIVE So what you're saying is that you didn't check the classic wow subreddit or any of the forums, because you would *know* that a large majority of people are not happy with this change at all.
@@Fabriciod_Crv The only people that post on the WoW forums are those wanting to complain about something. What did you expect? A few subjective opinions about how Blizzard should add LFG into Wrath doesn't change the objective fact that the LFG and LFR additions into the game heavily impacting the game negatively. This isn't some fringe conspiracy theory either - even Blizzard themselves have admitted that they shouldn't have put these tools in, since it was hurtful to the health of the game as a whole. That's why they didn't allow any form of auto-LFG tool in Classic or TBC, even going as far as to ban addons that offered a similar service; this is why they're not putting the tool into WotLK either.
Most of the people that are using the boost are dad's that are coming back after having kids who aren't able to level a character and be able to get into the new contact I personally want to come back for wrath but I don't want to have to level a character to do it I just don't have the time
The whining about LFG removing the "social aspect" of the game is fucking nonsense. You've never been prevented from just forming your own groups with people you know. This is 100% about gatekeeping.
You dont understand at all. The lfg is the easy way. And people will prefer it. To Form a Group is an other Part of the game that makes you involved with people. To have value of good Group members. If you leave a Group, because they arnt fast enough or something... they will remember you and not invite you again. On the other side you can be a good leader everyone knows about. I had never a Problem (exept gnomeregan) To build a Group without Lfg. Ask why. I saw the community rotten over time in the lfg. Ninja looter got accepted. Tanks that want every item and if you complain they kick you out. Blizzard needed To Programm a ..."Personal loot system" because thats how human work. Lfg has an impact To build Groups. Because humans take the easy way even if its the worse experience.
@@Rakzahn This is nonsense drivel. There's simply no causal link between DF and community toxicity, and never has been. If anything, the vast majority of the toxicity in the game has come from the competitive side of this game. Mythic difficulty and M+ did more damage to the game than random dungeons ever did.
@@Rakzahn You know what other game has LFG? FF14. You wanting to blame LFG for things going wrong with WoW is simply hilarious. As certain warchief once said: Times change. This aint 2004 anymore. The internet culture has changed. People are NOT toxic because LFG dude. People are toxic just because THEY are toxic. I've had just as many nice experiences in LFG as i've had bad ones. I've had groups chat and tell jokes while having fun, and groups rage because of a wipe and disband. Is not the tool man... is the people... and i don't mean everybody is toxic... just that SOME people are. And that won't change because they remove LFD. People are toxic NOW in TBC classic. They were toxic in Vanilla Classic. Don't you remember Jokerd ninjaing loot in MC? Surely that was LFR's fault!!!! Oh wait! I had a Timewalking group not that long ago, where they wanted to skip the 2nd boss in Slave Pens. But then the hunter said he needed the weapon from that boss. And everybody immedialy went back to the 2nd boss to kill, just to give the hunter A CHANCE to a shitty weapon. And it didn''t even drop. And people were just fine with it. In fact, people were commenting about how nice of a group it was. I had a heroic Spires of Ascencion this week, where the tank screwed up with the spear and we wiped and he apologized because he was realy bad at it. And people said, don't worry buddy, and one of the dps said "let me do it for you" and we finished no problem. I've had runs where people literaly opened trade and handed me loot without me even asking for it. LFG is not good, is not bad. Is a tool. It is what you make of it. If your groups have all been toxic... maybe you should think about it... maybe is you.
The worst thing about the LFG tool is that you insta-pop into the dungeon with random people and the only person who didn't wait is the tank. So everyone obeys the tank or he leaves the group and you're stuck in another 40 minute queue. So instead of building groups that you can chain run things with and meet up with, and traveling the game world to the dungeons you want to run it's just *Insta-pop queue - GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO *someone dies* *Tank leaves* *Re-queue for an hour* *Insta-pop* - GO GO GO GO GO G0 GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO. They are terrible for the health of the game and the convenience do not make up for it.
I mean as a player with a BIS lock, BIS hunter and BIS shamy (pre raid) in TBC I legit have not been allowed into a raid once in the what 2 years classics been up since “they don’t have utility” and playing since WOLK on retail I still can’t get into heroic current content groups or mythic the messages are always the same in summer “your not the meta class”
I’ve played the game since 2008-2009 I know all the mechanics for most fights by heart, heck I’ve even offered to not roll on any gear and I get told FICK off… meaning I wouldn’t see any raiding content ever if it was not for LFR/LFG. HECK I can’t even get a dungeon group going with out paying people gold just to do one run of say HFP or something
@@AsuraMidori The LFG tool came in with Wrath right? So since then it's been implemented. I noticed that sort of behavior you're talking about once the LFG tool came in. I hadn't seen it prior on my home server back then. But, I mean that's just bad people being elitist if it happened to you and not due to the LFG tool. It's caused more harm then good. Implementing mechanics in expansions that discourage people doing that to you would be better then being lazy about development just because you have an LFG tool now. I've gone into LFG tools as a melee hunter and had the tank leave. So then I'm back into an hour wait. So...
I completely agree Nixxiom, 100% I've been saying the same shit for years. It's still an unpopular opinion judging by the comments, but I think it just boils down to a lot of people being lazy and/or antisocial. They wanna play WoW essentially as a single-player game, and they don't really care that the LFG tool essentially invalidates much of the open world (and the usefulness of Mages & Warlocks) because they prefer convenience.
@@bonemarrow1000 Who cares if people wanna sell boosts, or buy them with in-game gold, which they already have to have gotten by leveling properly anyway? I don't have a problem with that, especially if they've already leveled before. The alternative is doing away with the manual forming of groups, turning classic into retail and utterly ruining the experience. If that means we gotta deal with people boosting their alts, I'm absoloutely fine with that.
LFG and LFR is something players hate, but doesn't make blizzard money. So it's an easier decision then to remove the level boost, which infact probably makes blizzard the most money past subs.
I depend on lfg tool massively because of serious problems with anxiety. I enjoy just getting matched to a grp and get the dungeon done,I can't talk to people and socialise to join or make a group so wotlk classic is a no for me...
I'm glad to see you improved a lot how you articulated your issues with the bad design systems and your thoughts of the game overall. It is making you way more interesting to listen because you're not repeating constantly the same arguments over and over, you now develop and go deeper in how you feel about what is wrong with Blizzard and WoW. I'm proud of you Nixxiom :)
If it was not for lfg and lfr I wouldn't have the time to play. And If there was no lfr I'd never see the raid content. Spending 1 hour in chat spamming LFG is not social. If you want to be social than go to the AH or start a LFS looking for social group.
LFG wasn’t bad the LFD AND LFR tools were bad. The LFG tool allowed u to post and passively wait for people to sign up to join ur group exactly the same way you would by standing in stormwind only u could do it anywhere in the world and wouldn’t have to constantly spam chat. LFG tool should have been put in wrath but not the LFD tool
i see that Nixxiom hasn't played TBC classic at all outside of stream time, if you actually log in to a server like Faerlina at this exact moment, you'll see that absolutely NOTHING that he's saying here happens at all, LFG bulletin board on lower levels is filled with people boosting or GDKPing, no one cares about anyone and you'll probably never see the same people ever again. The community aspect in Classic is dead in the water and it has been for a long time now Also, LFD-like tools are a standard in alot of MMOs today, FFXIV is a big example of this, but in that game it's fine, but in WoW it's somehow bad? give me a fucking break
Started playing around I also don't like playing with a lot of people but I've been playing since wrath every day got my daughter's playing all five of them my brother my niece my friends we don't we group up sometimes and do attention but when enough of us are not at the same time we will use another Q button. I love the old style to play but since I started playing during wrath the button it's always been there when we all started playing classic wow and burning crusade we hardly ever do dungeons because sometimes all of us aren't playing and not enough for a group and I don't like spamming chat if I'm playing with people I don't know classic's empty so is burning crusade so many people that would be using the two button cuz those of us left not you guys what's up
I always see tons of rather well sought out and well put together arguments when it comes to the LFG tool. But to me I always see it's just a tool to not to deal with inconvenience. What if you waste so long trying to put together a group and no one knows what they're doing? They can either ask questions or they can leave, it's not all or nothing. it's not like no one talks in dungeons anymore. If you want a community nowadays go join a guild or a discord server. I always laugh at the "oh but the community" argument whenever the LFG tool is brought up. The long and short of it is the community is just people, The LFG is going to put you with people. There's your community, and in every community there's going to be good people and bad people the The LFG tool just made it easier to deal with people. Cuz you know what's not fun? Pissing about in Stormwind for about 3 hours trying to find a damn healer. Then to realize that they are not geared, so you have to get another one. I always think about so you would rather have the inconvenience for the sake of nostalgia? Rather than a tool that can help get the job done faster. It's the equivalent of purposely driving down a rocky rickety road that's on the long side of a cliff because since that's how everyone else did it back in the day. When there's a brand new spanking bridge that goes across the entire expense that anyone can drive across.(Edit: I had one too many it's and I put and instead of in, So I fixed that)
Why am I going to play an mmo if interactions with other people doesn't happen naturally in the game? I don't want to have to use 3rd party software to "find the community", I want to make friends through the game. For me personally, most of the problem comes from LFD and LFR because those just send most of the playerbase into a bad single-player rpg where you lose for things out of your control, get frustrated, and leave. LFG at least has a leader that is assembling a group, where each newcomer is greeted and small talk occurs while everyone gathers outside the dungeon or raid. All of my friends that I've made in WoW are from those moments. I've never heard anyone say that LFG is bad because "that's not how we used to do it", I don't think that's why most people are against it. LFD and LFR just take away any chance of getting socially invested in the game naturally through PvE content for casual players.
Agreed, it’s a world. It should lend itself to actually being a world where there are social interactions to make things happen. It’s more rewarding that way, the og devs understood that.
@@ManGrieves and that's it right there "The OG devs", it's nostalgia. When classic wow came out you know how many people were chanting "#no changes" then they realized all the conveniences that came with the modernization of the game. Sure the game's not perfect it's screwed up on an ungodly amount of things. And if you want the social interaction that's fine, you don't have to use the LFG tool or the LFD or LFR, nothing is hurting your experience by it being there. This is the same argument whenever I see people complain about guns. It's not guns that are killing people, it's irresponsible using guns killing people. You can use those tools irresponsibly then you get into the situations like that you're saying. Or you can forgo those tools and you can play the game that you want. Some people just rather not deal with the inconvenience. That's all it is. I have some my best friends I have met through natural play during the lunar festival 4 years ago. We sometimes we will use the dungeon tools that are provided. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing mind set about this. I'm not saying that you're wrong in your belief on this but just accept the tool that what it is, it's a tool. I see people compare it a WMD. Which is hyperbolic at best.
LFR added nothing constructive to the game, LFG is a scapegoat that people use because they don't want to admit that the player divide and lack of interaction was orchestrated by the players themselves. People were still interacting with each other through MoP, the real culprit where people started noticing something was wrong was in WoD with the whole Garrison fiasco. It's like people want to project their problems onto a system that had nothing to do with the breakdown of the game. The problem was that by the time people started noticing something, the LFG tool was being used for every dungeon in the game. Which isn't a problem with its design but with Blizzards design in later expansions that utilized it. If they had made an effort to include a reason to actually explore and go to the dungeon entrances, it wouldn't be the problem it is today.
@@hurotiz I guess I can see that. I know I just wouldn't be able to play the game without it. I play on an rp server and like to rp. So having LFG allows me to do the content I want to do.
I wish I could give you more than 1 like as you are spot on. It's a real shame reading the comments how few people understand why original WoW was loved and modern WoW is routinely hated.
Is not LFG/LFR. If you think that's what is wrong with the game, then you must have not played wow in like 8 years. Either that or you are a dumb Nixxiom fanboy that would agree with whatever he says.
yeah bro because i want to hop on the game and type in trade chat who wants to run my key instead of doing it in a filtered system. there is no difference but LFG is objectively better lmao, this take is so dated and thoughtless.
Well said Nixxiom. 100% agree. A community is so much more interesting socially, it creates an added dynamic to the game that is 100% lost in todays game. It was a social experiment with lots of emergent behaviour. Now it’s just many fragments of different gametypes you can queue into anonymously.
I've been playing since 2004 and i 100% disagree with this. Having actualy been active ever since, i've seen the before and after, the pros and cons. And i can tell you, you don't know shit. LFG and LFR opened the doors to millions of people that were blocked of seeing a big portion of the game. Either for time, skill or fear, lots of people could not experience lots of group content. These tools allowed them to have fun. And they have all the right to have fun as well, not just the elitist bunch. I can understand that YOU don't like it. But that's because YOU have no issue finding a guild or a raid group. Maybe you are ok with rerolling to fit the meta, or fill a position, but not everybody can or like to do that. Some people don't have the time to commit to a raid schedule, or the time to wait in chat till a group can be formed... LFG/LFR is NOT for YOU. And that is totaly fine, because YOU can still make your own groups, find a raiding guild, etc. But YOU can't choose for everybody else. Imagine that someone would come and i say: I don't like Classic... so noone should be allowed to have Classic WoW!
@@josejuanandrade4439 I’m pretty sure I know what I’m talking about and I’m not the only one who feels this way. I never once had to deal with elitists until LFG started putting me into groups with them. Maybe the realm you were on was full of toxicity but mine wasn’t. I played tank and I would always help people who were starting groups, I am far from an Elitist so don’t act like you know me, and don’t judge me for my opinion.
@@joshlamott740 The problem here, is that you've only talking from your point of view, which i can tell is super narrow. It doesn't seem you've ever actualy interacted with casual people, the kind of which, LFD was designed for. I pug so much, either tru LFD or manualy. Specialy back in the day. And i met so many people for whom, literaly, LFD was a godsend. During WotLK i organized groups myself to help my gf and some friends, and i met SO many people, who was so happy to finaly find a group that allowed them to join to run raids. I am NOT kidding. Later, during CATA, i met people tru LFD heroic, who told me how they couldn't raid tru WotLK exactly for what i described, pugs not accepting them for their gear, or because they did not had an achievement etc. But also people for whom getting in a group with strangers was a complete obstacle due to their introvert nature, just antisocial manners. And up to this day, in retail, i keep meeting people, who would not even play the game, if it wasnt because of these tools, lfg and lfr. Also, you just explained yourself why you do not understand: You play tank. Seriously... you obviously don't have the need of LFD or LFR because, if you are a good tank, you'll have no problem to find a group, or start a group. But not everybody is YOU man... that's what i am trying to explain you. Try and reroll a pure dps class, with no guild, just playing solo till you are max level, and then see how easy you find a group that will take you tru a raid. I am sorry, but what i am gonna say, i am not saying it as an insult: To me, you come across as someone highly ignorant, that only knows what's in his litte bubble, and can't think of out it. I know quite a few people like that.. People with good social skills, that have always been in a good guild, and that have very strong characters.... and can't understand how people "can't do mythics" or "how can't they do heroic raid"...
@@josejuanandrade4439 you really don’t know me at all, I’m by no means a social butter fly, I’ve played every race class combo in the game and pre lfg i pugged 90% of runs. I never kicked people from groups unless they ninja looted. I get why you advocate lfg but it doesn’t change the fact that it bred mass toxicity into wow. Now a days there is no tolerance for error because of the dungeon tool, you can replace people in minutes. But if you are playing wow for the dungeons and raids only, you are missing the original point of an mmoRPG. Chris metzen once said that the world is the main character. Current dungeons are streamlined for the tool for infinite runs. The point of a dungeon such as BRD was exploration to run a few times and bond with players in the process, not for mass runs. Maybe you are the narrow minded one.
LFG and especially LFR really get overhated, like the problems in the community didn't come from the community itself.
M+ did more to hurt the game more than LFR ever did, because while LFR just sat there and vibed M+ made this already toxic and elitist community even more vitriolic and try-hard. The shit I have seen just leveling alts in low level dungeons, of people trying to speed-run it and cut corners like their anus might explode if they don't or bullying new players for not having heirlooms and not having the dungeons memorized like they were studying for a test is astounding.
As seen by the amount of exploitive bullshit in Classic such as AoE farms and Boosting through dungeons, it isn't the presence of LFG or LFR that hurts the game it's the players themselves.
Yeah, it was way better to run dungeons to gear for the first raid and then never go back. So great. *eyeroll*
100% agree.
@@martinw2235 when it was designed as a STEP into raiding and not a map that you grind the exact same gear of Haste Mastery 20 different levels. That’s not fun at all.
Dungeons were always a leveling tool and introduced you into the hardest pve content that’s raids.
@@Zutang777 that’s what they were, but things can evolve. It was a bad use of assets. It’s much better now as a third pillar of the endgame. Lots of people have an hour for a couple dungeons here and there; they do not have 3+ hours multiple nights a week.
M+ is proof some wow fan like getting pegged by blizzard it the worst sistrm ever made for anything to TIMER A DUNG RUN and make ppl kill near all TRASH MOBS plus weeklys retarded random ability changed to mobs is so fucking stupid plus the once you start and somebody leave bs you are fucked and a lose doesnt give the key back but gives you one lower.
When 90% of the community is at level 60, or level 70 sitting in the main cities. The 1-50 world was EMTY during those times. Your community didn’t care about you or if your leveling experience was any fun.
What ruined the experience was the expansions that didn’t let new players or players max roll new characters where they could engage low level players.
LFD was a leveling tool to combat the ever expansive mmo
LFR is a different concept as it’s at end game and where the community is.
bruh you're SO SPOT ON!
Thats why blizzard should focus on world content and make it so there is content to do while leveling and not only at end game other wise endgame is the only game
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming hopefully they STOP at the classic trilogy and work out horizontally.
For example making new classes and exclusive leveling content for races and other forms of progression like more level 60,70, and 80 raids. Reasons to start a NEW character.
@@Zutang777 ive been playing on turtle wow. Its a vanilla+ experience. Vanilla with gobs and high elf races. New custom zones that were originally supposed to be in vanilla. Custom dungeons and raids. New raid gonna come out soon called scarlet citadel. They even have custom quests in not just new zones, but old zones too. They even fleshed out bloodsail rep and made them a real faction to quest with and have a quarter master / vendor
You probably play on a high pop server and are a streamer. Finding ppl to play with is easy through your eyes. Not so easy solo. Lfg made it easier to get groups and do content. This superficial rep construct you created is in your own little world. You could report ninja looters even with lfg. Frivolous justifications for not wanting lfr. I'm just as capable of filtering out ppl via lfr than trade chat. If your basing your experience off initial interactions with ppl then your part of the problem
See as the “kid last picked for dodgeball” I see both sides. Retail and classic ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. I’ve played since WOTLK and I legit was NEVER allowed to raid or could join raids my first raid was the day LFR came out even having BIS pre raid. I’d get removed and replaced due to being none meta class. Heck with a few bis maxed heros on classic today I still don’t make the cut for raid groups…. So LFR was a gift from heaven to me. BUT I do know it shot down a lot of friendship building and community building. I agree it’s the people who are the issue not the system if people didn’t act like assholes the LRF/D would be amazing
I’m not a streamer. Find a group. Make friends with that group while you run the dungeon. Join a guild. Run dungeons with your guild.
Literally didn't answer the question other than , "gatekeeping is fun to do to people who aren't in huge guilds" and "this one time this guy ninja looted a thing and in my mind i was the police who told the whole server and decided the fate of his game from now unto eternity". Lets not take into consideration at all about how huge guilds keep people out of stuff by gear checking them, and cornering the market on selling people runs thus making it harder for normal people to progress at all. Lets take into account the fringe people who ninja loot but lets not take into account the people who lie about someone being bad or ninja looting and just talk shit on the server about others...you know...because having a bunch of video game police shouting about people is awesome and we should always take their word for it.
i understand the whole cross server thing, but unfortunately this game and its charging people to change from dead servers fucks people hard. Period. Put in the LFG tool, it was fun. Take out cross server if you want ...hell....all of this can be saved by just having mega servers and not a bunch of dead ass servers to begin with to charge people to move from.
Most people can afford to transfer. Rerolling is free.
You basically have zero understanding how current classic works. 90% of the player base are on mega servers and no one cares if someone ninja looted some item in a heroic. Just to get in this run(as a DPS) you must sit in chat for half an hour and sometimes longer to build your group only to promise unneeded items to the tank/healer just so you can start. I see in no way how this is preferable to clicking on RDF and doing your thing till the group is formed. You could put limitations in like you must form a group the old fashion way the first time for each one but to say that it is more rewarding to take an hour to start some heroic you have done 43 times is myopic.
In Denmark we have a saying that goes "Don't paint Satan on the wall" Which goes for when people make a problem bigger than it is. Which is exactly what people do with LFG and LFR
I think it's a good tool because the rewards from normal and heroic dungeons are hardly worth spending 15-20minutes at best trying to gather a group for in trade chat, if you even get any rewards or loot at all. And LFR makes people experience an easymode of raids without having to join a guild and spent an entire evening in a raid and being dictated how to play your character because "there's one one right way to play your class and spec, otherwise get the kick" .
We got mythic raids that are fun and makes it worth spending time looking for a group and travel to the dungeon and plenty of comunication goes along with it. And stop complain as if Blizzard have completely removed normal, heroic and mythic raids. There's plenty of raid guilds to join where you can experience the communication, group gathering and traveling. And the loot is better than LFR.
Basically, complaining about LFR and dungeon finder is the same as having a big ice cream and then get angry seeing someone with a small ice cream because you don't think they deserve it if they don't work to get a big one.
Both the LFG and LFR equivalents work fine in FF14.
The problem ins WoW is that it does not encourage good conduct.
I was just about to say this system works just fine in XIV. It's not the system but the tryhards that are the problem. I never liked grouping for dungeons/raids in WoW without the finder because people are jerks and never let me join because I played hunter and hunters got the worst rap. Meanwhile in XIV, if I'm in a group and I say it's my 1st time people either are like "k, these are the mechanics" or "it's fine just enjoy the ride" when in a bigger group. Admitting you're new to a dungeon/raid in WoW basically blacklists you from most groups even ones saying they're beginner friendly.
Sorry bro, couldn't get past 3 minutes. Different times. That is the key here. When WoW came out I was a much younger man with no family and fewer responsibilities. I love that they implemented classic version of WoW, however the Dungeon finder\LFG is a Godsend. If I have 2 hours on a weeknight to play, the last thing I want to do is spend that time spamming the LFG channel. This is especially more important depending on what stage of the game you're in. For example, if you're just starting Outlands some of those lower dungeons are hard to find groups for because a lot of people are basically only logging in on raid nights. I've seen this with several guilds as well. I would agree with leaving out LFR, but as far as DF\LFG Blizzard and the rest of us have to take into account the demographic has changed since the original release. The player base for Classic isn't 16-20 year olds - it's veterans who are in a completely different life stage.
I don’t have a single issue with LFD, I’ve met so many people from the US that I’d never have known before being from aus, it helped me expand friendships and now make lifelong friends, yea there have been some absolutely awful experiences, but meeting new friends, outweighs all the bad, not having LFD actually makes me not want to play Wrath. It helped me overcome some of my social anxiety and pushed me without being absolutely full on and in, it’s a better tool than a lot of people give it credit for, without LfR I really don’t think I would have met as many genuine people who I hold dear to this day and play different games with
My friends and I tend to play games in a relatively small group, but sometimes it is not always possible to have enough people online to get a full group going, so it is nice to use a tool that allows us to fill when needed. We are more interested in enjoying the world together than making online friends.
You can still fill from trade chat, I don't really see what your point is. And if you don't want to be part of a community, there's loads of games out there which suit (i.e. not mmos).
I found an RFC group in 3 minutes as a DPS using the already ingame LFG tool.
All they need to do is break boosting like they did in SoM. That's the heart of the cancer more so than LFD
@@Preacher_. No it wouldn't cause you're missing a very very big problem in point Like it or not at this point there's no ketchup mechanisms in TBC.
And even if you're a level 70 you still have to go through the starter gear grind and most people are done with that nobody has a reason really even to run heroic unless it's the daily.
So it's not just the boosting leveling It's also the fact that most people are just done with a lot of the beginning and games.
On top of that yeah OK so what you're saying is staring at LFG buildings and board for hours on end to get a group for a heroic or something is socialization.
Well what if you just never have anyone join you What if all you end up doing is just spamming that all day and nothing happens which by the way I've seen happen who wants to spend 2 hours plus just spamming trade chat.
What's your experience then OK cool I just get to look at a bulletin board all day that's fun?
On top of that if you haven't rated yet or even been In something like cares and people expect you to pay gold for GK p's to get geared up before you can even hope to be at a decent of gear level 2 get into groups.
Especially at this point Guilds are mostly established and yes there are pugs but most of them expect you to at least done the dungeon at least once they don't want to have to talk to you they don't want to have to socialize and explain you the fights are any such things of that nature so no.
Like it or not this community It's not the same community that it was back in 2007 it's just that simple
@@oliverwarren1074 yeh you would even get a rep for running good pugs and good people would join..getting great connections
@@oliverwarren1074 ah, the ''if you're not engaged with a community 100% of the time in MMOs maybe you shouldn't play them'' mentality, shut up, that mentality is one of the reasons why New World failed.
Not gonna lie, I'm very antisocial and im perfectly fine with the lfg tool no matter how cursed lfg raid may be
I dont have time anymore for raids and guilds and i used to have alts that were healers and tanks and just spam LFG for fun. I love the 5man content and it's hard to get it consistently otherwise. I dislike the way the classes play now so modern wow is not something I'm interested in.
The difference is back then we were all young some of us we didn’t have jobs we went to school got home and played the shit out of wow. The time factor keeps me away. LFG and lfr would be nice.
I just love how the comment section is pretty much in agreement that Nixxiom opinion is wrong and is totaly biased.
I totaly agree. For each person that i know that think LFG is bad, i know 10+ people that would not do dungeons or raids if these options didn't exist.
Either because of time, or because antisocial, most people nowdays actualy enjoy the game thanks to these features.
I was too...but after being asked to run stuff or "just try the dungeon it will be fun," in guild chat..it developed my social skills a lot
LFR was added so because only 2% of the player base were experiencing the full content before hand. Much time and money is spent developing raids and to get more people experiencing it is a good thing. The leet raiders have heroic and mythic to get the best gear so its a fair system.
The fun part about games like these is the journey. LFR is a skip-to-the-end button, it lacks substance, it leaves a dissatisfying taste in your mouth - because there was no adversity to it, there was no progression to it. It's eating the desert without tasting the steak.
@@MicrocosmicExperience The problem is not everybody has the skill, or time, or patience, and they are happy enough to use that "skip" button as you yourself called it...
Just like Nixxiom here, you are seeing this from YOUR priviledged point of view. It is great to be in a guild, and raid heroic and mythic. But not everybody can, not everybody want, and some don't have the skill, or are just extremely introverts to the point they don't even join voice chats.
So just because YOU think THIS is the way they are suppoused to play the game, does not mean that your way works for others. It would be great if everybody could do heroic raiding, but if they can't, just let them at least be able to see the content tru LFR.
So Nixxiom answer is make it so 95% of the community doesn't see the content. Most people don't raid in guilds as they don't have the time to set a set time for raiding. Those who are do are in guilds and raid. Removing lfr just fucks over the people who don't and does nothing for those already raiding in a guild.
Yeah. Very poor take here from Nixxiom.
Nothing you said had to do with LFG; but with LFR and cross-server-tech...
There's nothing bad with LFG. However, spending hours creating groups and running to dungeons doesn't fit the world we live in and it's really poor user-experience and game design.
Also, we live in a different time, with different technology and community.
We have a min-max culture that have made 1.000+ videos on TH-cam the last weeks about how to min-max WoTLK Classic in every way possible - a game not yet released.
We also live in a time where basically everyone on the globe have access to WoW, and also in a time where it is so easy to create and execute bots. In poor countries, some people even make a living by playing/botting WoW to sell gold to the "rich-world" who play and waste money on this game for fun. And Blizzard....is not even a gang of nerds that wanted to make a good game anymore. They are a business that strive to make as much money as possible. They sit in a room; not discussing what would make a better game or what players want, but adopting scientifical proven strategies to make players hooked and spend money - like it was a casino.
There are so many problems that I could write a book about it.
The real reason the game has gone down in popularity consistently isn’t the sense of community, it’s that the game hasn’t been special for 10+ years. When it came out most people played it for the novelty of interacting with friends and strangers, something very few games did well at the time. Nowadays, so many other, better games do that, so why would you play wow? I’ll admit, I still enjoy the game, but it’s a game that was fun for everyone, now its a game that mmo fans play. That’s why there are so few new people, not because it’s a bad game, (although when looking at gaming as a whole, its pretty shabby) it’s because other games do the concept better: from online shooters to fighting games. Even if they brought everything that made classic fun back into the main game, nobody would care, nobody wants to play an outdated game with 20 year old design philosophies, when they can play pretty much anything else for cheaper and have more fun.
TLDR: game isn’t losing players because of community loss, it’s because the game isn’t as special in concept as it used to be.
For me its the fact that over time the rpg was diminished from mmorpg. And soin enough the mmo aspect. It became a single player campaign. And lfg was just to get in and get out. No communication needed. No adventure to get the quests nor even travel to get there. Walking up and traversing to the lair of a dragon. All of that is gone. And thats why the game is bad.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming I honestly think the games always been pretty weak, the gameplay isn’t really all that fun, more so the sense of accomplishment. There’s a reason the only people that play it are so old compared to the rest of the gaming demographic. People my age don’t want to play a slow and rewarding game, they want a game that’s made to be fun. MMOs are dying as a whole because their player base is getting to old to play games. When things like discord became more widely accessible and products like Xbox live, why would you talk to friends in a game where it takes hours to get something done versus a game where you can hop in a match and have a lot of fun for 10 minutes? It’s just outdated and being phased out as time goes on.
@@mynameiscal3478 classic was very very successful. As was several blizz-like vanilla/tbc/ and one or two wrath servers because of the gameplay. Vs the diminished "new" version of the game. The last 4 expacs have failed and get even worse.
What new games do people enjoy alot? And continue to play even after a year or two. Even go back to after a break? Games that are well developed rpg / sandbox games with loads of replay ability and content updates and challenge. Example; minecraft (with mods and sandbox / rpg elements) skyrim. (Replayability, rpg and mods) ark (mods. Randmoness. Challenges and new content). Gta 5 with rp, i think mods? And sandbox.
Plenty of other examples too.
But blizz started to make wow a themepark game. Most themeparks ganes have nothing I described. You play it. Enjoy it. Then your done and leave.
Look at games like uncharted. Great story. Action. But its basically a 5 hour movie. You see it then your done. No differences in replay ability. Thats why alot of mmos are dead after successful launches
If wow became MORE ; rpg, sandbox, challenging, ect. It can extend the life of the game drastically for most people
@@mynameiscal3478 You're all wrong buddy and Nixxiom is very close to be right on. World of warcraft, like most MMORPGs, is a productivity game, a progression game, an achievement game. People play and like it because as humans we're designed to feel good when we're productive and when we achieve special things, hard things. Adding features that facilitate these achievements make them less valuable, some even meaningless. The loss of all these social aspects is a big loss for sure but the loss of the rewarding feelings you get when you finally achieve the things you worked so long and hard to get is the biggest loss of them all. Without it there's no motivation to spend time doing all the tasks needed to reach the goal. Which is what MMORPG players do most of the time, little tasks that bring you closer and closer to a bigger goal.
I'll add that no game is very "special" in itself. They're all part of a family (RPGs, FPS, bla bla bla..) and all got their own pros and cons. "Fun" games don't last long because their players will jump on the next "fun" boat. MMORPGs have loyals and invested players due to their nature. That's why some of us have been playing WoW for 15 years. You don't retain a player base for 15 years because your game is "special", you do it simply because you found the right recipe. Many MMORPGs lived and died during the lifetime of WoW and to this day, in my opinion, classic WoW until WOTLK is still the most complete of them due to the quality of professions, PVP, PVE, social interactions, etc.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming wow as been a theme park since BC. The thing with replay ability is it has to have incentive. In wows case, it’s gear. Sure the social aspect is gone from group finder or whatever but the “replayability” you describe has always been there and has never left. Now this is all from what I have seen and experienced recently, as I haven’t played this game for half my life as some people do, but I think it’s pretty clear to see. Sure you could argue progressive raiding is less of a theme park than what we have today, as gear from the previous raid isn’t really necessary for later ones, but the whole “theme park” thing has been present since BC came out.
I like dungeon finder, but think Raid finder should go out the window. The biggest issue in current classic is the boosting BS. I think they need to find a way to get rid of that. There's a big difference in helping your friend through something vs charging people to afk and get XP.
LFG and LFR were the best idea ever!!!
Lfg is fine. We live in a "pick up and play" type of gaming culture. Nobody cares about "muh community" or "making friends" anymore. That's in the past. If they took away lfg tool I'd never play again and many would feel the same.
Thats why they said go play retail. Classic is for the people who dont want it in the game
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming I'd bet everything I own that the majority of the classic andy crowd is fine with lfg in wrath.
@@thorbeorn4295 those people are playing because they didnt get to experience it because they didnt play back then. Hell even turtle wow's lfg where it finds the group but you still have to walk to the dungeon is way better because you all still travel together. Grab and share quests. Ect. And no one leaves over a wipe.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming I play classic to replay old content, not to experience some vague idea of "community" . I don't want wotlk to be changed because of a vocal group of casuals.
@@Kyle-uo5bg only casuals want lfg because "ima dad of 5 and work 89 hours a week so i dont have time to play and want the game to cater to me"
I will say this, if not for LFG and LFR I would not even be playing WoW.
See my thing I understand the community and friendships are far lower quality compared to classic. BUT if it was not for LFG/D I’d never see the inside of a single raid since I don’t play meta classes. I play classes that I enjoy and peeps would be like sir you are not a mage, sir your not a rouge sir your not a warrior ‘kicked from group’
@@AsuraMidori To me its just about time, I have like 2h a day to play games and considering the number of games out there, I seriously have no time or need to look for people to play with, the "hit a button and there you go" is what I need.
@@xxan84 Then you don't deserve to be in the raid, flat out, When i started playing Bc, the most i ever saw was Shattered halls in BC, i never saw the inside of Black temple, you didn't earn it. If you really only have 2hrs WoW is not for you lol. And even if let's say you did find a guild to raid with, at best you'd just be a raid logger, just logging on to do raids and after raid is over, goodbye see you guys next week.. so no if you don't deserve with the time and effort to go into a raid/communicate with a guild, then you shouldn't see the raid.
@@xxan84 Idk how long you've been playing WoW But i'm telling you Lfd and Lfr have ruined this game, it's just a fact look at the sub numbers, even though for you it would've been the hardest to play the game, because in Wrath and Bc you'd have to actualy communicate ,travel to the dungeon and to theraid, and invest some time into your character, this is when the game was at it's greatest, it was the eny of not the just in the MMO Genre but even in gaming in general. The Fact is WoW back in the day if going by your schedule would not have been the game for you, and that's fine, not everyone is going to play, but it's killing this game overall with that mindset.
@@Nomansland77 People change, times change, people grow up, they no longer have time to play 10h a day because they have families. If you are one of those people who do nothing but play video games, that is you, the rest of us don't have time to wait and form parties and what not.
Most people play casually. If I have (like a lot of people) 1-2h max daily of play time, I am not investing 50% of that into running around and making parties, we, casuals, just quit.
If you think that LFX was the detriment of WoW I don't agree. Multiple other factors impacted the game.
without LFG and LFR majority of players would never experience a lot of content created by Blizzard... Raids especially take so much time and effort just to organize only people without jobs and family can really participate regularly... its like a 2nd job and not many of us want come home from 1st job just to rush to the 2nd - which isnt even paying the bills... The problems WoW has are coming from lack of innovation, same old systems since eternity, there is just nothing new in the game, each and every expansion feels the same, grind to max level, then grind reputations, power source meters and whatever there is.... Dragonflight doesnt seem to change anything, will be certainly worth to try out at the start, but later it will get even worse than now with the playerbase... there are so many fresh and innovative games actually worth playing (Elden Ring dont look at me) people just wont spend countless hours doing boring world quests m when they can have fun somewhere else.
They weren’t though, it was the people complaining about it that made it mostly unpopular.
Did you watch the video?
And why did they complain about it? Jfc
LFG was great for WoW.
hey man madseason's gone you can have your own opinion now
I simply dont agree. The bigest succes of wow was when WOLK was released.!!! The introduction of the random LFG tool was one of the main reason people played back then. People with diffrent gear set diffrent skill could play together. People dont remember but i have a good memory..!! The player base back in those days start to change . The Introduktion of wolkt with many daylies, quantity of quests and stuff, like achiements etc..many of those focused away from the social activity. Gamers simple dont have the time to run and do some dungeon for hours. The pace of the game is faster and more individualistic regardless of the LFG tool. The time consuming was one of the biggest issues in vanilla, the lack of things to do was the issue in TBC.
Wolk wanted to solv both issues when wolkt ws introduced. The LFG tool was necessary and it will be necessary to keep with the pace of the game.. Not everyone have 3 hrs / day to play today . This change is a huge misstake and will have a bad impact on the game. I think classic Wolk will survive less that classic TBC without the random tool. Im afraid to say that the random LFG tool is even more needed today than never, A huge miscalculation and a major misstake to change it,
I don't wanna waist 3hrs of my 4hrs of ay time a day lookin for 2 people. I'm pro no LFR but leave LFD alone
Classic was fun to play, generally a new experience for most people. People thinking lfg ruined the game are thinking too much. If classic had lfg, no one would have batted am eye back in the day. It's just different than how early MMO culture was that the nostalgia ridden old men are crying doom over it.
You know you are right when people made addons for Classic that literaly replicated the LFD functionality LOL. Remember that?
But elitist snowflakes will try to convince you that their way is the only way! That noone wants LFD lol. "How dare casuals enjoy MY game?!"
Give the players what they need and not what they want.
Yup, players need to be saved from themselves by actual good game designers.
My only problem with this is, I want dun finder for lower lvl duns. I dont mind not having it for higher or end game (screw lfr) make it stop working at 60 even but RIGHT NOW and going into wrath, people are only boosting low lvls. Its all anyone mostly doing even in bigger servers for lvling. No one remember those boosters, they even go afk with WA commands and going into Wrath as said, we only gonna be boosting lvl again but with DKs now lol
OK speaking from somebody who has played the game since 2004 I understand what you're saying to a degree OK however.
All the examples that you give No disrespect but don't work anymore Yeah back in the day if someone ninja looted something You're completely right however.
This isn't 2007 anymore And speaking From someone that has seen this happen several times by the way especially when we have servers with a population of 30000 people.
Nobody is going to care for one For all different players now I mean we could have a huge Discussion about raidlogs That wasn't in tbc or classic but here we are.
The way we play the game is more goal oriented and more goal focused People weren't killing SSC in an hour Back in the day The list goes on.
As far as lfd and lfr Are 2 different things One is beginner entry content like it or not.
The other is end game content on top of that there's a very big difference between putting 5 people randomly together and 25 people randomly together.
On top of that most dungeons Even before the heroic nerve people don't really talk anyway Unless something goes wrong The reality is TB C and Ralph are both finished andsolved games.
The journey doesn't have a meaning anymore like it or not there are people that liked the journey but most just want to get to cap and start the gear grind.
There's a reason why blizzard hasn't made leveling the main part of the game in a long time why people hate it As far as If socialization and having to get a group together 1st of that's Assuming you can get a group together to begin with so you're telling me spamming an LFD board.
Looking for the same group That could take you 2 and a 1/2 hours to get and if you get to the dungeon the tanks a jerk or somebody has to leave and then the group breaks up and then you have to start that process all over again is fun.
It's fun not to be able to do anything else and just sit In a major city to keep spamming to make a group if that even happens that's fun that's social interaction how.
And aside from gained to no people yeah that was the case when people didn't know how to run the dungeons but like it or not we play the game very differently very differently simply put the game isn't hard not anymore.
At least not beginning content like it or not people know everything It's a 16 year old game.
On top of that you also have to take an account the player bases that were playing cataclysm and cataclysm and wrath were all different people than those that played TBC and Vanilla.
There's people that have joined the game and every single expansion in it yes even BFA And shadowlands Yes scary I know.
My point is the way you're describing the game simply people don't play it that way anymore I mean we could just look one minute at the world buff meta Deprove that you don't need world bus to kill rag.
But it goes a heck of a lot faster you don't have to kill naxx In 45 minutes but people do it.
My point is the way the player base is right now is not the way the player base was in 2007 and I say I'm pro RFD.
And quite frankly Gear score Was a million times worse and the achievement Spam was a million times worse for the game Then RFD ever could have been.
Anyway that might take
I think that they removed it only to sell more boost. I suppose later they will add it to bring more player back that they like it.
What an extremely evil take. I love it
No, the LFG tool is what I use to find arena partners. Either we get solo que or we keep LFG, because I'm not going back to spamming general chat to find an arena partner that might leave after one loss.
I prefer LFG, FFXIV has a mandatory solo que for it's pvp and it's complete dog water.
If not for LFG and LFR, I would have never done a single dungeon/raid in WoW because my main was a BM Hunter
FFXIV has it and the community doing just fine. Funny, right? Almost like the feature isn't the problem.
Almost like it is the community itself + how the game are designed to be endgame race fest that give people no time to chill is the real problem.
LFR sucks but LFG/LFD is fine as it is.
The part where he explains that someone would leave grp, because others dont know the mechanics, sounds like himself. he wont bother with you if you havent played since 2004. this guy needs to get off his toxic high horse. "something is bad because it made things easier for ppl to get things done". Thats the whole 11 min video.
So I disagree with LFD being bad now LFR is whole different thing and hated it when it was added in Cata. LFD they say it ruins community but back in Wrath I met so many cool ppl through it and alot of ppl I got grouped up with we be came friends and after the dungeon we did other this. So to me it helps community come together.
People will just make an addon with website to replace lfg not that hard, kind of like map traders for poe
Exactly, three presses of a button and you got a discord server up and running specifically people that want to run dungeons.
It's just a tool, LFG is something that's not meant to be feared.
11 mins ranting about 2 OPTIONAL parts of the game. You don't have to do LFR, you still have 3 other difficulties. You don't have to use LFD, infact on live it's a waste of time (in wotlk it was just for badge farm), just buy green boes from the AH and skip to mythics. Lfr is not for you or me or anyone else that actually consumes wow content outside of the game. It's for everyone to see a form of the content that matches their skill set (or time to play) and be a part of the community, and they are awarded with gear that is outpaced by sandworn gear.
I'm sorry, I love your videos Nixxiom, I do. However, I refuse to watch this one. Both features were not the problem, stop being the typical content creator that's causing more problems than necessary. It's great your expressing your opinion, but unfortunately, the rest of the community begs to differ. LFG is a must have tool, regardless of what you or others against it think. LFR on the other hand, I, personally, can take or leave (but I'm sure alot of folks would like it included in the game as well), so I'm not gonna argue against them. I will definitely argue against content creating meanies who are deliberately killing the game, intentionally, for the remainder who want it. Sorry, but I've said my peace more than I wanted.
You take care.
I know people that didn't got to raid during WotLK because either their skills werent good enough, or their gear was not good so people wouldn't invite them, and is because of tools like LFR that they got to experience the end game.
I myself was raiding on my main with my guild, and leading 4 to 5 pug groups each week back during WotLK. I did organize pugs so my gf and a few friends could raid. A particular anecdote is that, i took over a friend's raid group, because a) they needed a tank/leader, and b) her group was actualy bad.... I had to explain the fight EVERY pull EVERY week... But, i am so proud to say, that, all of them were so happy when they finaly managed to beat LK 10 man. This may not have been a big accomplishment for many people... but for this particular group of fellas, it was a very big moment, and to have been a part of that, made me realy happy. I got SO many whispers that day, thanking me... it was so moving.
But not everybody was as lucky. As we got into Cata, i met so many people tru LFD that told me how they couldn't manage to even see the raids...
@@josejuanandrade4439 Beautifully worded and I agree 100%. If I got to be apart of a crowd like you, I'd personally thank you as well. It's very rare to find someone who is patient enough to help others understand without getting angry at them and telling them to play better. Yelling and demanding someone to do what you want doesn't make the person or anyone in general have the motivation to do so. If a person is careful/respectful/mindful of the crowd they are catering to, then the likely chance of you succeeding is far greater than the person who is telling someone off and demanding progress on the base of "Because I said so!!!" Nevertheless, I see your point and I'm absolutely not disagreeing one way or the other :)
Personally, I was hoping to get into raiding for the first time ever, but without the LFD feature, motivation to even attempt that went out the window before I could even give the expansion a second-chance. I played Vanilla and TBC twice now and never had the motivation nor time to raid. The raiding scene in those expansions didn't appeal to me in the least. Wrath classic was gonna be the ideal expansion that I would have loved to chance raiding, but now I won't beable to because I lack the motivation/drive to even propell myself back into a world of grind feast without the feature. I already spent two expansions, twice, doing what I did the first time... barely getting past a certain level and not doing Dungeons as much due to time restraint. Even as a teenager I still didn't have the time to even consider raiding... so in the end, having responsibilities and a life doesn't make that any better. Life takes priority over hobbies/past-time activities. They could have roped so many casual players, like myself, back into their world and now... they've killed the hype/chance for that opportunity. Ah well... what can you do but sit and watch in silence as the game spirals down a path of no return. The original Wrath will always hold a dear place in my heart, but without certain elements, it's lost any meaning to be considered a worth-while expansion as well as considered 'classic' anymore.
Lfg and lfr are fine nowadays kids are grown they have jobs and families putting that much time into a game is tough nowadays.
As a solo player, I need LFR and LFG as an option
But its a multiplayer game.
@@Rakzahn I know....that's why I said "option". Every type of player should have the ability to play the game however they wish. For me, dungeons and raids are means to advance the story, I've been playing throughout Northrend, I just wanna kill Arthas on my own time. If you like the grouping part of the game, good for you, just don't put me in the same corner.
@@MoAlhulail the issue is that people take the road of least resistance. And if more and more people use the tool then no one can group naturally. And if you ask to form a group in general chat you will be mocked and told to just use the lfg tool
@@Rakzahn I play on an RP server. If I didn't have LFG I wouldn't be able to play the game. I honestly don't see whats wrong wtih LFG
@@RhadaGhast100 Nothing is wrong with LFG. Is just a tool that enables lots of people to play the game. The only thing wrong are the elitist snowflakes that don't want other people have fun in any other way then the one they deem "right".
I dont think it was a bad idea, maybe if they had only had it so it would only work on your specific realm and not cross realm, maybe that would of helped.
All they need to do is break boosting like they did in SoM. That's the heart of the cancer more so than LFD.
That being said, the game doesn't need LFD early on... Hell, I found an RFC group in 3 minutes as a DPS using the already ingame LFG tool.
It'll be just like that in wrath. The only time LFD might come into play, is if the game plummets and the population drops off.
boosting and gdkp spam on lfg channel is such a joy to suffer through to find one real dungeon run,,that is the extent of the social interaction, i played wow 2006 to current, no benefits to be seen socially, i ended my sub at end of may over lfd and dual spec removal in wrath.
Same bs arguments to get rid of something that doesn't effect them in any way at all. The game would of died off a long time ago without LFR and LFD.. and it's always the try hard lifers that don't even use the systems that cry for their removel "I don't use it, others are not allowed to have fun and get gear if it isn't how I want them too"
I feel one of the reasons WoW(both classic and current) is less fun than before is the mentality promoted by the community, generally. People min max this game like it's a second job, they behave more like project managers than raiders..
Lfg was one of the main things that I was greatly interested in classic wrath. Because no one responded to my request for a dungeon run in tbc classic
LFG and LFR are the easiest targets to point and throw shade towards. In fact they are extremely convenient and useful tools and I only recently discovered this after having to use them due to not having a guild because mine died. Before this point I never had any reason to use either so I didn't know how people without guilds or groups of friends felt
Nothing wrong with LFG unless you are some kind of gatekeeper who wants to feel better than other people by obstructing access to high level content.
I used to be so proud of getting my daily heroic and mount run done quickly daily...before lfg
Without a finder, my content will end up leveling up more characters trough quests. Time better spent than looking for a group in chat.
It was great in vanilla and tbc but the player base grew up and classic proves. Most people don’t have an hour to sit around and hopefully find a group before their play times over anymore. Sad truth of an aging gaming industry
dude i totally forgot about the screenshot thing
I'm happy they are removing LFG. But I would like to see the Group Finder tool be implemented in Wrath.
I think that is a much better tool and wouldn't feel out of place in the Classic game.
I agree with you. LFG is a bad tool for the world and the community. Most people will support LFG because it is convenient to press a button and find a group. I think you're right on the points you presented and I know Kevin Jordan also has the same opinion. For people to look through chat helps to interact and communicate. Pushes players out of their comfort zone if they're afraid to start a group in their own. That's why so many people want to have it. Today players are spoiled and don't want to wait to form a group, they don't want to teach other players how to do boss fights or mechanics, they rather kick them and find someone who knows how to do it. They don't want to travel to dungeons, but be summons right into it. I really hope ActiBlizz will stay true to their word and keep LFG out of the game, but alas I think they will bend in and give players want they want, which is a bad decision that will lead towards where wow retail is right now. Also boosts are a terrible idea and their reasoning for it as well. If you want to play with friends, they will help you level and play with you no matter the level. Help you with gear and so on. We played in 2006 without boosts and it was fine.
Time change the community is toxic often and nobody us shy anymore and need freinds ppl got real life .
I would say it’s two fold, myself as an example would never find a group to do a raid and my first time raiding WAS when LFR. I’ve played since WOTLK so I can’t say much on the dungeon finder. But I was never accepted into groups even with friends and guilds for raids. Forcing me to do nothing but pvp, gold farm or content I can solo. And to this day I now love raids but still can’t find heroic groups willing to accept me since I play DK and elemental whammy and those classes are not wanted….so the LFR let me actually play and enjoy the game but I know people like you have more issues then a scrub like me with little experience since I only started in WOTLK
At the same time I understand it did weaken the community aspect. So it’s kinda mixed for me. Heck I’ve lvled 4 toons to max with BIS in classic and TBC classic and not once was I allowed to join raids due to not bing a mage or not being meta despite having all the gear and swap gear with good stats and correct resistances… been playing classic since release date…. And even today when asking for groups I was told no or was removed due to my class and told that in a DM….
In this video: Nixxiom goes on a rambling rant but never actually addresses how removing the LFG tool helps to fix anything.
At this point, the LFG tool cannot be removed from the modern game. It's too much engrained into the modern-WoW culture. But, thank goodness, they've learned from their horrible mistakes and are not going to put LFG in Classic WotLK, despite it having been there all those years ago. Great decision on Blizzard's part. Restart WoW, but try to leave out all the mistakes along the way as they re-release expansions.
@@NixxiomLIVE So, aside from LFR (which I agree was a bad addition to the game as it spoils endgame progression somewhat by allowing players to skip over too much content they'd otherwise probably enjoy experiencing,) I don't really see what the big problem with the LFG/LFD tool is? In its current state in retail, you can only use it to find groups for normal and heroic dungeons anyway, the highest difficulty of those dungeons still requires you to find a group yourself at max level.
I propose that in Wrath Classic a revised version of LFD should be introduced - one that only allows players to queue for normal difficulty dungeons as long as they've visited the entrance/meeting stone for the dungeons at least once. I would also remove the random dungeon system so as to not conflict with my previous suggestion.
This version of the system would kill 2 birds with one stone essentially, allowing players to get into dungeons quicker for levelling, and would help address one of the many problems with dead realms in classic.
That being said, I personally would be perfectly happy for them to implement the system as it was in Wrath. Let's face it, heroic dungeons in Wrath were super easy anyway, so the difficulty level isn't even really a factor when it comes to this debate. Barring LFR, I can only see positives from the LFD system in classic wrath onwards and honestly, genuinely disagree with your negative points.
@@NixxiomLIVE So what you're saying is that you didn't check the classic wow subreddit or any of the forums, because you would *know* that a large majority of people are not happy with this change at all.
@@Fabriciod_Crv The only people that post on the WoW forums are those wanting to complain about something. What did you expect? A few subjective opinions about how Blizzard should add LFG into Wrath doesn't change the objective fact that the LFG and LFR additions into the game heavily impacting the game negatively. This isn't some fringe conspiracy theory either - even Blizzard themselves have admitted that they shouldn't have put these tools in, since it was hurtful to the health of the game as a whole. That's why they didn't allow any form of auto-LFG tool in Classic or TBC, even going as far as to ban addons that offered a similar service; this is why they're not putting the tool into WotLK either.
@@NixxiomLIVE but on FF14, it’s fine?
Most of the people that are using the boost are dad's that are coming back after having kids who aren't able to level a character and be able to get into the new contact I personally want to come back for wrath but I don't want to have to level a character to do it I just don't have the time
The whining about LFG removing the "social aspect" of the game is fucking nonsense. You've never been prevented from just forming your own groups with people you know. This is 100% about gatekeeping.
You dont understand at all.
The lfg is the easy way. And people will prefer it.
To Form a Group is an other Part of the game that makes you involved with people. To have value of good Group members.
If you leave a Group, because they arnt fast enough or something... they will remember you and not invite you again.
On the other side you can be a good leader everyone knows about.
I had never a Problem (exept gnomeregan) To build a Group without Lfg. Ask why.
I saw the community rotten over time in the lfg. Ninja looter got accepted. Tanks that want every item and if you complain they kick you out.
Blizzard needed To Programm a ..."Personal loot system" because thats how human work.
Lfg has an impact To build Groups. Because humans take the easy way even if its the worse experience.
@@Rakzahn This is nonsense drivel. There's simply no causal link between DF and community toxicity, and never has been. If anything, the vast majority of the toxicity in the game has come from the competitive side of this game. Mythic difficulty and M+ did more damage to the game than random dungeons ever did.
@@Rakzahn You know what other game has LFG? FF14.
You wanting to blame LFG for things going wrong with WoW is simply hilarious.
As certain warchief once said: Times change.
This aint 2004 anymore. The internet culture has changed. People are NOT toxic because LFG dude. People are toxic just because THEY are toxic.
I've had just as many nice experiences in LFG as i've had bad ones. I've had groups chat and tell jokes while having fun, and groups rage because of a wipe and disband. Is not the tool man... is the people... and i don't mean everybody is toxic... just that SOME people are. And that won't change because they remove LFD.
People are toxic NOW in TBC classic. They were toxic in Vanilla Classic.
Don't you remember Jokerd ninjaing loot in MC? Surely that was LFR's fault!!!! Oh wait!
I had a Timewalking group not that long ago, where they wanted to skip the 2nd boss in Slave Pens. But then the hunter said he needed the weapon from that boss. And everybody immedialy went back to the 2nd boss to kill, just to give the hunter A CHANCE to a shitty weapon. And it didn''t even drop. And people were just fine with it. In fact, people were commenting about how nice of a group it was.
I had a heroic Spires of Ascencion this week, where the tank screwed up with the spear and we wiped and he apologized because he was realy bad at it. And people said, don't worry buddy, and one of the dps said "let me do it for you" and we finished no problem.
I've had runs where people literaly opened trade and handed me loot without me even asking for it.
LFG is not good, is not bad. Is a tool. It is what you make of it. If your groups have all been toxic... maybe you should think about it... maybe is you.
The worst thing about the LFG tool is that you insta-pop into the dungeon with random people and the only person who didn't wait is the tank. So everyone obeys the tank or he leaves the group and you're stuck in another 40 minute queue. So instead of building groups that you can chain run things with and meet up with, and traveling the game world to the dungeons you want to run it's just *Insta-pop queue - GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO *someone dies* *Tank leaves* *Re-queue for an hour* *Insta-pop* - GO GO GO GO GO G0 GO GO GO GO GO GO GO GO. They are terrible for the health of the game and the convenience do not make up for it.
I mean as a player with a BIS lock, BIS hunter and BIS shamy (pre raid) in TBC I legit have not been allowed into a raid once in the what 2 years classics been up since “they don’t have utility” and playing since WOLK on retail I still can’t get into heroic current content groups or mythic the messages are always the same in summer “your not the meta class”
I’ve played the game since 2008-2009 I know all the mechanics for most fights by heart, heck I’ve even offered to not roll on any gear and I get told FICK off… meaning I wouldn’t see any raiding content ever if it was not for LFR/LFG. HECK I can’t even get a dungeon group going with out paying people gold just to do one run of say HFP or something
@@AsuraMidori The LFG tool came in with Wrath right? So since then it's been implemented. I noticed that sort of behavior you're talking about once the LFG tool came in. I hadn't seen it prior on my home server back then. But, I mean that's just bad people being elitist if it happened to you and not due to the LFG tool. It's caused more harm then good. Implementing mechanics in expansions that discourage people doing that to you would be better then being lazy about development just because you have an LFG tool now. I've gone into LFG tools as a melee hunter and had the tank leave. So then I'm back into an hour wait. So...
I completely agree Nixxiom, 100% I've been saying the same shit for years. It's still an unpopular opinion judging by the comments, but I think it just boils down to a lot of people being lazy and/or antisocial. They wanna play WoW essentially as a single-player game, and they don't really care that the LFG tool essentially invalidates much of the open world (and the usefulness of Mages & Warlocks) because they prefer convenience.
Removing LFG keeps the boost sellers in business lol, but that’s not anti social at all lol
@@bonemarrow1000 Who cares if people wanna sell boosts, or buy them with in-game gold, which they already have to have gotten by leveling properly anyway? I don't have a problem with that, especially if they've already leveled before. The alternative is doing away with the manual forming of groups, turning classic into retail and utterly ruining the experience. If that means we gotta deal with people boosting their alts, I'm absoloutely fine with that.
LFG and LFR is something players hate, but doesn't make blizzard money. So it's an easier decision then to remove the level boost, which infact probably makes blizzard the most money past subs.
I depend on lfg tool massively because of serious problems with anxiety. I enjoy just getting matched to a grp and get the dungeon done,I can't talk to people and socialise to join or make a group so wotlk classic is a no for me...
I'm glad to see you improved a lot how you articulated your issues with the bad design systems and your thoughts of the game overall. It is making you way more interesting to listen because you're not repeating constantly the same arguments over and over, you now develop and go deeper in how you feel about what is wrong with Blizzard and WoW. I'm proud of you Nixxiom :)
If it was not for lfg and lfr I wouldn't have the time to play. And If there was no lfr I'd never see the raid content. Spending 1 hour in chat spamming LFG is not social. If you want to be social than go to the AH or start a LFS looking for social group.
LFG wasn’t bad the LFD AND LFR tools were bad. The LFG tool allowed u to post and passively wait for people to sign up to join ur group exactly the same way you would by standing in stormwind only u could do it anywhere in the world and wouldn’t have to constantly spam chat. LFG tool should have been put in wrath but not the LFD tool
i see that Nixxiom hasn't played TBC classic at all outside of stream time, if you actually log in to a server like Faerlina at this exact moment, you'll see that absolutely NOTHING that he's saying here happens at all, LFG bulletin board on lower levels is filled with people boosting or GDKPing, no one cares about anyone and you'll probably never see the same people ever again. The community aspect in Classic is dead in the water and it has been for a long time now
Also, LFD-like tools are a standard in alot of MMOs today, FFXIV is a big example of this, but in that game it's fine, but in WoW it's somehow bad? give me a fucking break
If you dont like it, dont use it, leave the game
Started playing around I also don't like playing with a lot of people but I've been playing since wrath every day got my daughter's playing all five of them my brother my niece my friends we don't we group up sometimes and do attention but when enough of us are not at the same time we will use another Q button. I love the old style to play but since I started playing during wrath the button it's always been there when we all started playing classic wow and burning crusade we hardly ever do dungeons because sometimes all of us aren't playing and not enough for a group and I don't like spamming chat if I'm playing with people I don't know classic's empty so is burning crusade so many people that would be using the two button cuz those of us left not you guys what's up
I always see tons of rather well sought out and well put together arguments when it comes to the LFG tool.
But to me I always see it's just a tool to not to deal with inconvenience. What if you waste so long trying to put together a group and no one knows what they're doing? They can either ask questions or they can leave, it's not all or nothing. it's not like no one talks in dungeons anymore.
If you want a community nowadays go join a guild or a discord server. I always laugh at the "oh but the community" argument whenever the LFG tool is brought up.
The long and short of it is the community is just people, The LFG is going to put you with people. There's your community, and in every community there's going to be good people and bad people the The LFG tool just made it easier to deal with people.
Cuz you know what's not fun? Pissing about in Stormwind for about 3 hours trying to find a damn healer. Then to realize that they are not geared, so you have to get another one. I always think about so you would rather have the inconvenience for the sake of nostalgia? Rather than a tool that can help get the job done faster.
It's the equivalent of purposely driving down a rocky rickety road that's on the long side of a cliff because since that's how everyone else did it back in the day. When there's a brand new spanking bridge that goes across the entire expense that anyone can drive across.(Edit: I had one too many it's and I put and instead of in, So I fixed that)
Why am I going to play an mmo if interactions with other people doesn't happen naturally in the game? I don't want to have to use 3rd party software to "find the community", I want to make friends through the game. For me personally, most of the problem comes from LFD and LFR because those just send most of the playerbase into a bad single-player rpg where you lose for things out of your control, get frustrated, and leave. LFG at least has a leader that is assembling a group, where each newcomer is greeted and small talk occurs while everyone gathers outside the dungeon or raid. All of my friends that I've made in WoW are from those moments.
I've never heard anyone say that LFG is bad because "that's not how we used to do it", I don't think that's why most people are against it. LFD and LFR just take away any chance of getting socially invested in the game naturally through PvE content for casual players.
Agreed, it’s a world. It should lend itself to actually being a world where there are social interactions to make things happen. It’s more rewarding that way, the og devs understood that.
@@ManGrieves and that's it right there "The OG devs", it's nostalgia. When classic wow came out you know how many people were chanting "#no changes" then they realized all the conveniences that came with the modernization of the game. Sure the game's not perfect it's screwed up on an ungodly amount of things. And if you want the social interaction that's fine, you don't have to use the LFG tool or the LFD or LFR, nothing is hurting your experience by it being there. This is the same argument whenever I see people complain about guns.
It's not guns that are killing people, it's irresponsible using guns killing people.
You can use those tools irresponsibly then you get into the situations like that you're saying. Or you can forgo those tools and you can play the game that you want. Some people just rather not deal with the inconvenience. That's all it is. I have some my best friends I have met through natural play during the lunar festival 4 years ago. We sometimes we will use the dungeon tools that are provided. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing mind set about this. I'm not saying that you're wrong in your belief on this but just accept the tool that what it is, it's a tool. I see people compare it a WMD. Which is hyperbolic at best.
nixxiom bro i love you.
*but you are wrong about lfg and lfr*
neither to blame but the concept behind the game is.
Amen brother. Couldn't agree more!
I can understand LFR but... why LFG? I can't really think of anything wrong with it as a feature.
LFR added nothing constructive to the game, LFG is a scapegoat that people use because they don't want to admit that the player divide and lack of interaction was orchestrated by the players themselves. People were still interacting with each other through MoP, the real culprit where people started noticing something was wrong was in WoD with the whole Garrison fiasco. It's like people want to project their problems onto a system that had nothing to do with the breakdown of the game. The problem was that by the time people started noticing something, the LFG tool was being used for every dungeon in the game. Which isn't a problem with its design but with Blizzards design in later expansions that utilized it. If they had made an effort to include a reason to actually explore and go to the dungeon entrances, it wouldn't be the problem it is today.
@@hurotiz I guess I can see that. I know I just wouldn't be able to play the game without it. I play on an rp server and like to rp. So having LFG allows me to do the content I want to do.
I wish I could give you more than 1 like as you are spot on. It's a real shame reading the comments how few people understand why original WoW was loved and modern WoW is routinely hated.
Is not LFG/LFR. If you think that's what is wrong with the game, then you must have not played wow in like 8 years. Either that or you are a dumb Nixxiom fanboy that would agree with whatever he says.
It hated because elitist players cry about everbody getting a chance to do the same things
yeah bro because i want to hop on the game and type in trade chat who wants to run my key instead of doing it in a filtered system. there is no difference but LFG is objectively better lmao, this take is so dated and thoughtless.
Well said Nixxiom. 100% agree. A community is so much more interesting socially, it creates an added dynamic to the game that is 100% lost in todays game. It was a social experiment with lots of emergent behaviour. Now it’s just many fragments of different gametypes you can queue into anonymously.
Whats wrong wth LFG though? I hate LFR but LFG I don't get the hate for
Time change we get it you didnt have freinds in real life but ppl do now
I love how passionate you are. Good vid man
It makes the community so much worse and toxic.
Amen.
They were not a terrible ideas
i like them
ope
Say no to lfd and lfr it kills the game
Lfg and lfr was the best to happen to world of Warcraft
You did a great job formulating what I tried in Reddit in video. Love it, hopefully it breaks through to blizzard.
Ultimate WoW boomer take
Finally somebody who understands that the pros of LFG do not outweigh the cons and that it not coming back is a good thing
I’ve been playing since 2004 and I 100% agree with this.
I've been playing since 2004 and i 100% disagree with this.
Having actualy been active ever since, i've seen the before and after, the pros and cons. And i can tell you, you don't know shit. LFG and LFR opened the doors to millions of people that were blocked of seeing a big portion of the game. Either for time, skill or fear, lots of people could not experience lots of group content. These tools allowed them to have fun. And they have all the right to have fun as well, not just the elitist bunch.
I can understand that YOU don't like it. But that's because YOU have no issue finding a guild or a raid group. Maybe you are ok with rerolling to fit the meta, or fill a position, but not everybody can or like to do that. Some people don't have the time to commit to a raid schedule, or the time to wait in chat till a group can be formed...
LFG/LFR is NOT for YOU. And that is totaly fine, because YOU can still make your own groups, find a raiding guild, etc. But YOU can't choose for everybody else.
Imagine that someone would come and i say: I don't like Classic... so noone should be allowed to have Classic WoW!
@@josejuanandrade4439 I’m pretty sure I know what I’m talking about and I’m not the only one who feels this way. I never once had to deal with elitists until LFG started putting me into groups with them. Maybe the realm you were on was full of toxicity but mine wasn’t. I played tank and I would always help people who were starting groups, I am far from an Elitist so don’t act like you know me, and don’t judge me for my opinion.
@@joshlamott740 The problem here, is that you've only talking from your point of view, which i can tell is super narrow. It doesn't seem you've ever actualy interacted with casual people, the kind of which, LFD was designed for.
I pug so much, either tru LFD or manualy. Specialy back in the day. And i met so many people for whom, literaly, LFD was a godsend.
During WotLK i organized groups myself to help my gf and some friends, and i met SO many people, who was so happy to finaly find a group that allowed them to join to run raids. I am NOT kidding.
Later, during CATA, i met people tru LFD heroic, who told me how they couldn't raid tru WotLK exactly for what i described, pugs not accepting them for their gear, or because they did not had an achievement etc. But also people for whom getting in a group with strangers was a complete obstacle due to their introvert nature, just antisocial manners. And up to this day, in retail, i keep meeting people, who would not even play the game, if it wasnt because of these tools, lfg and lfr.
Also, you just explained yourself why you do not understand: You play tank. Seriously... you obviously don't have the need of LFD or LFR because, if you are a good tank, you'll have no problem to find a group, or start a group. But not everybody is YOU man... that's what i am trying to explain you.
Try and reroll a pure dps class, with no guild, just playing solo till you are max level, and then see how easy you find a group that will take you tru a raid.
I am sorry, but what i am gonna say, i am not saying it as an insult: To me, you come across as someone highly ignorant, that only knows what's in his litte bubble, and can't think of out it.
I know quite a few people like that.. People with good social skills, that have always been in a good guild, and that have very strong characters.... and can't understand how people "can't do mythics" or "how can't they do heroic raid"...
@@josejuanandrade4439 you really don’t know me at all, I’m by no means a social butter fly, I’ve played every race class combo in the game and pre lfg i pugged 90% of runs. I never kicked people from groups unless they ninja looted. I get why you advocate lfg but it doesn’t change the fact that it bred mass toxicity into wow. Now a days there is no tolerance for error because of the dungeon tool, you can replace people in minutes. But if you are playing wow for the dungeons and raids only, you are missing the original point of an mmoRPG. Chris metzen once said that the world is the main character. Current dungeons are streamlined for the tool for infinite runs. The point of a dungeon such as BRD was exploration to run a few times and bond with players in the process, not for mass runs.
Maybe you are the narrow minded one.
AMEN NIXXIOM. BLIZZARD NEEDS TO WATCH THIS AND TAKE NOTES GOD DAMMIT!