@@KC9UDX Lol in in sweden where I live people who change oil and filters are petter paid than diagnostic technicians because diagnosis takes time and the piece-work-pay means service people make more than skilled labour.
@@KC9UDX Honestly. I'd rather have a challenging and rewarding job though. If you work in a good settign the pay in enough anyway. But let's see how that goes for all these guys that don't want to touch electrics in the future.
I recently had a guy come in with a transmission speed sensor code. He went to the local parts store and they sold him 2 speed sensors. He then went to a shop who did free diag and they replaced the transmission. Then he came to my shop and when we told him that he'd need to pay a diag fee he lost his mind and called us a "stealership" Maybe some dealerships are bad lol But I think that his anger should have been with himself for making poor decisions.
Joe good honest video. I’m a mechanic as you know but as far as cars go I know hot rods from the 60’s which ain’t a bad thing. I’m teaching myself today’s cars by taking classes purchasing ATG MANUALS and all associated tools and equipment plus following talented techs like yourself. I do this because finding a tech like yourself is very hard out hear on LI. The service guy gives you a good line but the schlep doing the job can’t torque a lug nut. Wish you were closer. You and wife stay well Artie 🇺🇸
i do a lot of my own work, and i like working on my cars. that said, i'm happy to pay a pro to diagnose something for me and then discuss what's next. usually, if they diag, i'm then happy to have them fix - but, sometimes i'll do it. point being, i expect to pay for diag.
I see this often. I just had a dodge come in , almost $1000 spent at another shop . A 5 volt ref wire shorted to ground was the only problem. The customer was happy with me , not so much with the other shop....
Ive told people before.. That come in and have a problem that had parts thrown at it. They say "well so and so and so and so couldnt fix it" And I have to tell them that unfortunately there are lots of people in the automotive field that shouldn't be.
The problem generally stems from customers being misled by chains such as AutoZone and as well as some independent repair shops touting a free "scan for codes" as though it were a diagnostic. Those customers don't understand there is a difference between a free scan/code read versus a full diagnosis of issue until either someone fully explains or they learn the hard way like our friend on this issue. As a final note; my grandma used to say "cheap is expensive." 🤔
I can't count how many times I have had to explain that to the customer. I always tell them the code only suggest what haystack to look at. It does not give you the needle!
In my neck of the woods, it's rare to find a mechanic that actually knows how to do proper diagnostics. The standard at most shops here; scan for codes, and whatever code is thrown out, replace that part. If that doesn't work, replace more parts. All guesswork at the customer's expense. We do have one shop that's good, but they're more expensive than even the dealer
Good video Joe. I think I might ask new customers to watch this video when they enter my workshop. Nice to know we suffer with the same issue of not wanting to pay for testing over here in the UK. They will never understand because they don’t want to........
Another great teaching moment video Joe. A friend got a CEL code P0420. I hooked my graphing scanner to it and saw the pattern from sensor 2 mimicked the pattern from sensor 1. He didn't believe me when I told him he needed a cat. He bought a new sensor that told him the same thing. I told him again that his cat had stopped working. He took it to a shop that told him his cat wasn't plugged up. I told him it's not plugged, it just isn't doing its job. He had another shop install a new cat. They told him they could see through the old cat so there was nothing wrong with it. I asked if the light came back on after the swap. He said no. I said, "You needed a new cat."
Good to hear from you, Joe! I realize that I don't know you personally, but the other day (while at work) I said to myself "I haven't heard from Joe in a while," thus causing concern. Glad to see all is well and you're are still kicking ass!
Running a business is not easy, lots of overhead, long hours, and dealing with the customer. The scanners are ridiculously expensive and interpreting how to read wiring diagrams is not like reading the newspaper. You really gotta know what the hell your doing and because of that nothing is free. Regarding the repair, awesome dude, absolutely awesome.....
Every time I watch your videos, which I enjoy, I get scared of taking my cars in to a mechanic who might not be a proper diagnostician. A video on how to find the right guy, or gal, would be great. What do I look for? I'd bring my car to you, but it's 3000 miles too far!
When you don't bring it to Joe in the first place........ But then it ends up at Joe's anyways ........... The customer what's wrong with my car it needs a fuse box .....ok cool......... But yeah it's almost $500 and it's on national backorder 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂............. That's like the type of luck I would have.......great work is always Joe👍👍👍👍
@@jollyrodger5319 yes sure is you know what they say you get what you pay for Joe's and car wizards labor might be higher but they do a fantastic job and so do there workers
That's a good idea with the external relay, pretty much his only option at this point. Even if the fuse block could be had immediately from Ford it would take forever to get shipped probably and cost a small fortune. Hopefully that other shop didn't have access to wiring schematics, otherwise I don't know how they could not narrow that down for him, scary. I used to be a tech so I get your frustration, I used to deal with the same stuff. One day I was working on a customer's car and they came around to the overhead "open" door where I was working on their vehicle. They told me that they had to watch me do the repair to make sure I was doing it the right way. I felt like saying, if you know how to fix it how come I'm doing it and not you.
"You get what you pay for when you pay for diag at the right place." Could not be more true. What absolutely sucks for the average customer is they have no clue how to pick the right place. If only all mechanics had your skill and professional ethics.
Respect to your skills & honesty. But, as even paying for diagnosis & repairs often resulted in more stuff breaking & too often...I opted to only buy Toyotas since 2000 (on my second 4Runner after the first one rusted out after 15 years & 200k miles due to salted roads in Midwest & Honda Civic since 2007). These vehicles slowly wear out, never left me stranded & my nearly 14 year old Civic runs like new...absolutely everything works. In contrast my Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Mazda & GM vehicles all disppointed me severely in terms of reliability. But the worst part was all the annoying failures that were expensive to repair, with something totally different breaking soon after... like the widows not working, or heater core going bad and on and on...but as long as people keep buying junky cars we need someone like you to keep them running. Lived in NJ most of my life but left in 93 for a better job...hope you have time to enjoy the summer & the beach, the great food, the ocean fishing...
you've been very fair - you have done what the other shop should have done,given the guy your advice (ie cooling fan),options and alternatives to help him out.Not much more you can do at this point.Already Wasted $500 on parts etc so Just hope the guy learns from this and does it right next time.
I was asked to change a water pump... Might be bad... after inspection, the plastic thermostat housing is busted at the seam and will not hold pressure. It might need a water pump but I cannot even test it until the system will hold coolant
Joe, If I remember correctly, you said something like, "believe it or not, there are some shops who do not diagnose." I think that not diagnosing must be a common occurrence, when we see cars that Eric O has sent to him from other shops, and when we read or hear about customers who have paid large sums of money for their car to be repaired, and it is still not fixed. The shop installed several new parts, and the problem is still there. There needs to be a reckoning for shops that do this, the reckoning being that they need to pay for the parts themselves.
Ive always looked at electrical issues like plumbing pipe and valves (valves being fuses relays switches etc and the pipes are the wires) though im no expert ive found looking at it like water pipes helps me think of how to trace power issues to the "leak" or issue i still find it difficult understanding wiring diagrams because it looks like NYC'S water system 😂 but im working on it lol
Hey joe dont feel to bad, you cant help people who wont help themselves, but now this customer knows you can diagnose and repair correctly, 😁 good luck
@@jollyrodger5319 I have learned the hard way..... Not taking the time to follow the diagram and look at every circuit in the beginning states of troubleshooting. Causes double sometimes triple the amount of time it would have taken to just look at the natural flow of the diagram
Yes customers can blow your mind. The first thing make sure you have powers and grounds. If it was mine I would put external relays. I don't know if I would do it for a customer. Definitely you must be paid for diagnosis time. Stay safe🇨🇦
13 years ago, our family took our old Cadillac to the dealer because of a parasitic drain. We spent $1000 at the dealer. They replaced the BCM, harnesses and other things. We got the car back, and the battery still died. After doing some research myself, the problem turned out to be an aftermarket CD Changer. We unplugged it and never had a battery problem again.
Good diag work requires a hell of a lot more knowledge and effort than the actual repair work. A lot of people can't wrap their head around the fact that in some cases they are paying for what you know, not what you do. I know of several shops that are more than willing to convince their customers that a certain part will probably fix their problem, but they're not completely sure. Then when that fails, let's try another part. I can't do that in good conscience. If the price of a suspect part is cheaper than the time to go through all the diag steps, I will replace it without a full diag, but only with the customers ok. Good customers will learn to trust their mechanic.
There's the legend of a marine mechanic being called as a last resort to a dead in the water cruise liner that the ships crew couldn't get to run. He hopped on board climbed down the gangway into the engine room & listened to the behemoth groan as it was being cranked. Up a set off double stairs & he gave three firm taps to a component & the engine roared to life. He sent them the invoice & got a call on the carpet. The CEO of the co. said ; "You're charging $10,000 to hop on board & tap three times with a brass mallet ?, that's a bit much no? "No, not at all , the service call is $400.00 the $9600.00 is for knowing where to tap."
YOUR diagnosis is worth it . I don't understand how these shops get away with it . The car isn't fixed , but gimme $ 500.00 . BTW , those parts we replaced were bad anyway . After they throw a price at him , the ONLY question is " WILL IT FIX THE CAR " ? I would have SETTLED their bill by offering his net cost on the parts , because they were not necessary , no labor . And they can't be returned . Otherwise , waste at least a half day in small claims court .
I did a diag last night for a medical transport place. They called me and asked if I would please come look at a van because they had to many down and was really desperate. The van was a no crank no start at times also would cut out.. The shop they took it to earlier said it was a vacuum leak and didn't have time right now BRING IT back tomorrow lol. I show up and did my thing took about 45 mins. I found the bolt on the fuse box under the hood was loose, tightened it everything was good. I found it because I had no power at a fuse under the dash then traced it back. The bolt looked fine until you moved it(basically I wasn't lucky I had to find it) The owner was there for the diag. usually I don't do Road calls unless it's for another shop at thier shop. So I gave the guy the bill 150$. Keep in mind it's 730pm the van is 27mins away from me and I fixed it on the side of the road. Also all I have is my phone to use for alldata and anyone that's used alldata on a phone know wiring diagrams are hard to follow you have to screenshot it. I think 150$ was to cheap and this guy said it was way to much for a loose bolt. I tried explaining to him it's finding the problem your paying for usually the repair is easy in a cases like this. Could you imagine what the other shop would have replaced. I had no com with everything but the pats. The other shop said it was a vacuum leak WHAT! SMH. People think it's easy they don't understand the training involved the skill and experience it takes to do a real diag not a freaking Google common repair fix. It's crazy what shops do.
@@TStheDeplorable a little, I could tell by his tone and body language he felt it wasn't fair. He did make a couple comments that also lead me to that conclusion. The sad part is the mechanic shop he has working on his fleet are hacks. I did work for him before and I'm not even joking about this next one. He brings a van that the blinkers and rear brakes lights would go out. The shop bypass the fuse box and wires in a circuit breaker. After the circuit breaker triped it would reset then he would have brake lights again for about 8 seconds. The issue was when they installed the wheelchair lift 3 years ago they pitched the harness and eventually it rubbed threw. I just got my snap on thermal Imager that day. I found the issue in about 5 mins no lie. It was around 40 degrees out dark and the wire light up like a Christmas tree. That shops cheaper then me so he sticks with them and only calls me when he has no choice.
Nice job Joe you were 100% right people need to start conditioning customers that way rather than shotgun parts. I’m not sure why they don’t go back to that shop and demand money back just crazy to me.
see it so many times .... costumer self diagnostic .... replaced battery twice then was on to the alternator , that is where i was asked to install the alternator , and bam not the problem .... asked if he wanted to have a diagnostic performed , he refused .... kept telling me it was a bad part .... 2006 jag .... told him it could be several problems still no diagnostic was wanted .... so what do you do , only thing you can do send it down the road till they finally realize it needs to be checked properly ....
Here in Canada Ontario the Dealership charges almost $130 for plugging there scan tool in and providing you with codes on paper and if you want to know what’s wrong with each code it’s a hour of there time for each code which comes up to $120.00 an hour
Diagnosis pays because diagnosis saves. It can save the customer time and money. This customer took the time to call multiple shops, took his car to a shop, paid for parts and labor to fix a problem (that didn't get fixed). They then brought it to you to diagnose properly. It doesn't make sense to waste that much money and even more time just to "save" on a diagnostic fee. Educate the customers you can, charge the ones you can't.
Also he just plugs in the scan tool and it tells him exactly what to do. Recently I saw him replace a coil because there was a misfire code. I couldn't believe it. I don't know why, but I couldn't believe it.
@@KC9UDX Yeah, I've seen a video where he was "diagnosing" a no-crank no-start on a Dodge Ram. Right away, he claims that it's "probably the stupid computerized key" causing the problem so he pulls out his "fancy scan tool" to check for codes and finds nothing relevant. I noticed when he turned the key on that the security indicator turned on for the bulb check and then turned off, indicating the security system is functioning normally. I could have deduced that before even unpacking the scan tool, and I would have headed directly to the starting circuit.
@@josephwash109 unfortunately most people watching learn from him that it's normal for anyone to just plug in the scanner, shotgun replace a part, and then give up.
Joe you are correct. External relays and wiring would have been the cheaper option. It is a shame that some other shop/s threw parts at it that were good.
If your diagnostic leads to a fix without swapping parts unnecessarily, then I wholeheartedly agree that you should be paid for diagnostic time even if the customer declines the repair. Auto electric shops that diagnose electrical issues are their main stay and some customers don’t appreciate your ability to test before throwing parts and hoping the problem is fixed by coincidence.
It is sad that the previous shop threw parts without knowing they were really defective. $500 is a huge bill IMHO for what they did. You did the honest, trustworthy job during diagnosis.
My neighbor had an Olds Aurora with the dual climate control (1 for driver side 1 for passengers) and the blower motor was stuck on. Took it to a place and they charged him for 2 1/2 hours diagnostic fee and installed a toggle switch (on/off) for the repair and charged him somewhere around $385 range ( I can't remember the exact amount) but it was stupid amount of money and their idea of a repair!
Nothing changes Joe: No matter how much money people have, they'll always want something for nothing. They can't seem to figure out that the firms are going to make money somehow & that's by selling unwanted parts at inflated prices. Then they come to people like us to have the job done properly but don't want to pay for the service, sadly it'll never change. You stay safe out there brother 👍
All too often I get and see cars that were "diagnosed" and 1/2 the parts under the hood are new looking and the problem still isn't fixed. I've even called my boss out a time or to for "guessing at a diagnosed" and not testing to verify....
@@JoesAutoElectric Thanks Joe. I only ask as I had a similar issue with a fuel pump wire burning out in the fusebox but the 7.5 amp fuse protecting the circuit didn't blow. Luckily, no further damage done--wire re soldered and back on the road. Does seem that fuses are only useful if their amperage is exceeded or a short circuit.
Life is life you give him an alternative joe and he didn’t take it some customers are like beach balls they bounce around everywhere thanks for sharing
Unbelievable that a shop would throw parts at a car without a proper troubleshooting procedure. I understand anyone can make a mistake, but to waste someone's money is terrible. I do my own work whenever possible because of shops like that one. I'm sick of paying for crap workmanship. Good one Joe.
yup, same here - having experiences with this type of shop that throws parts is what started me on learning to do my own work. downside is, i became the car guy in the family! lol.
I charge one hour of Iabor for diagnosis. I have done this long enough that I can, almost always, find the problem in less than one hour. If it takes longer, well, OK; I'll make that back tomorrow. Up front, I tell my customers that I will apply half of the diagnosis charge to the repair if they elect to have me make the repair. That has the effect of keeping them around rather than having them go home and fix things (f**k everything up) themselves.
dodge dakota forums are full of folks that could learn from good diagnoses, after replacing everything under the hood the truck still won't run rite. Note: not bashing dodge, but trying to fix ours, and going thru diagnosis has saved big$$$
Shouldn't the guy be pissed off with the garage putting the blower motor and resistor in it?He must have driven out their garage with his motor still not working?I'd love to know what he said to them,or if he was too nice to say anything?:-)
no sir not hard to believe when they only want to pay low flate rate wages but charge big money to the customer. as a guy thats been around a few years i have seen the change in this industry use to be 5 to 15 min to diag 5 to 15 hours to fix to what we have now 5 to 15 hours diag to 1 hour repair the industry is on a collision course with cross roads that will force change
Is a frustrating part of our chosen Trade Joe but a reality ' even in New Zealand here we have either the guess work junkies or the ones that watch a few you tube video's and guess based on bad diag practice ' diagnostics takes time and practice the right tools and understanding on how the tools should be used ! thats what you get paid for not guessing ' ' and so we should this trade is not cheap to get into with the cost of scanners and other testing equipment Dam im mobile and cart around close to 50k in gear just keep up with whats needed in todays motoring
In my experience, mechanics & shops do this so they don't have to face the consequences of being wrong. If I'm not sure about a diagnosis, I just let the customer know they need to have someone else look at it. There is no shame in not figuring out a particular problem. On the other hand, a false diagnosis makes you look crooked whether or not you charge for it.
Pretty neat using a dummy load to troubleshoot. Why is it that people don't value another person's time? Smart thing for the guy would have been pay the diag fee and put in an external relay for the fans cooling system. Facepalm.
You might be surprised how much you can do yourself with a simple scan tool and a power probe. At least you'll be able to talk more reasonably to the shop and hopefully reach a cost effective solution.
Same here. Went to a shop to get my old car diagnosed, it has a hunting idle. The tech looked at it for two minutes, said he didn't know what's wrong and sold me a bottle of fuel additive. Have a nice day. No interest whatsoever in doing actual work. I get that it's a BMW but at the end of the day it's all nuts and bolts.
He learned his lesson for 500 he could of paid you and his car would be like new it would only take joe 20 minutes or 30 maybe longer but his car be like new
Minimum of an hour. However, many places will charge more than that, like dealers. I have seen them tell a customer they need a minimum of 3-4 hours so...it can vary I suppose. I do it as fairly as possible for my customers.
People think the mechanic will say "had to replace your blower motor, that was $400, and the diag was $120", and they'll think well, I already told you what was wrong, you charged me an extra $120.
Joe think how many cars you got from other shops that threw parts at the car new car dealers are even guilty of this practice !! some tech is not going to make money on the job they ship the car and bullsit the customer I say the parts stores are the blame they use a scanner and sell parts they tell the customer hey try this part it's cheaper than going to the dealer or a garage ! sad but true take care and all we can do is give our best try and use that tool knoledge that should be in every ones tool box !!
"Your going to charge me for looking at it?" Nope going to charge to diagnose the poblem.
I love the line, "All you have to do is plug your computer into the car and it will tell you what is wrong."
Skilled Labor Isn't Cheap.
Cheap Labor Isn't Skilled
Too bad we all get paid the same.
@@KC9UDX Lol in in sweden where I live people who change oil and filters are petter paid than diagnostic technicians because diagnosis takes time and the piece-work-pay means service people make more than skilled labour.
@@rimmersbryggeri yep silly. But that's economics. When all the techs become oil changers, then techs will be paid more.
@@KC9UDX Honestly. I'd rather have a challenging and rewarding job though. If you work in a good settign the pay in enough anyway. But let's see how that goes for all these guys that don't want to touch electrics in the future.
I recently had a guy come in with a transmission speed sensor code. He went to the local parts store and they sold him 2 speed sensors. He then went to a shop who did free diag and they replaced the transmission. Then he came to my shop and when we told him that he'd need to pay a diag fee he lost his mind and called us a "stealership"
Maybe some dealerships are bad lol But I think that his anger should have been with himself for making poor decisions.
“I thought the blower motor and compressor WERE electrical..... my bad.” HA HA HA HA. GREATEST LINE!!! Great video brother!!!
and resistor* but yeah, I laughed out loud at that too.
Joe good honest video. I’m a mechanic as you know but as far as cars go I know hot rods from the 60’s which ain’t a bad thing. I’m teaching myself today’s cars by taking classes purchasing ATG MANUALS and all associated tools and equipment plus following talented techs like yourself. I do this because finding a tech like yourself is very hard out hear on LI. The service guy gives you a good line but the schlep doing the job can’t torque a lug nut. Wish you were closer. You and wife stay well Artie 🇺🇸
Yep hard to make customers understand a good diagnoses is the way to go. They just think you are trying to rip them off. Good explanation Joe!
i do a lot of my own work, and i like working on my cars. that said, i'm happy to pay a pro to diagnose something for me and then discuss what's next. usually, if they diag, i'm then happy to have them fix - but, sometimes i'll do it. point being, i expect to pay for diag.
@@shadowpuck99 same here, and sometimes the diag is cheaper than the canon ever would be.
As an automotive machinist once said when someone balked at the price, "You can always afford to do it right THE SECOND time around."
I see this often. I just had a dodge come in , almost $1000 spent at another shop . A 5 volt ref wire shorted to ground was the only problem. The customer was happy with me , not so much with the other shop....
Ive told people before.. That come in and have a problem that had parts thrown at it. They say "well so and so and so and so couldnt fix it" And I have to tell them that unfortunately there are lots of people in the automotive field that shouldn't be.
The problem generally stems from customers being misled by chains such as AutoZone and as well as some independent repair shops touting a free "scan for codes" as though it were a diagnostic. Those customers don't understand there is a difference between a free scan/code read versus a full diagnosis of issue until either someone fully explains or they learn the hard way like our friend on this issue.
As a final note; my grandma used to say "cheap is expensive." 🤔
I can't count how many times I have had to explain that to the customer. I always tell them the code only suggest what haystack to look at. It does not give you the needle!
She's right there
@@Danbuilt426 Awesome quote about the haystack. I will use that from now on. Thanks!
In my opinion. A mechanic that can diagnose a problem properly is more valuable than any grease monkey.
anyone can learn to change a part. Knowing what to change and why is what separates the pro from the amateur.
Thanks again for being an honest straight shooter.
“You’re a good man Charlie Brown”
In my neck of the woods, it's rare to find a mechanic that actually knows how to do proper diagnostics. The standard at most shops here; scan for codes, and whatever code is thrown out, replace that part. If that doesn't work, replace more parts. All guesswork at the customer's expense. We do have one shop that's good, but they're more expensive than even the dealer
Are they really more expensive think about it you're paying for only the part that you need replaced not all the other b******* and extra hours
Joe you are 100% right on the money also keep in mind that new cars these days are designed to fail just after the end of their warranty period!
Absolutely
No diagnosis equals no verified repair. Blows my my mind people pay for a repair without a verified fix, great video, thanks.
Good video Joe. I think I might ask new customers to watch this video when they enter my workshop. Nice to know we suffer with the same issue of not wanting to pay for testing over here in the UK. They will never understand because they don’t want to........
Worldwide problem
Another great teaching moment video Joe. A friend got a CEL code P0420. I hooked my graphing scanner to it and saw the pattern from sensor 2 mimicked the pattern from sensor 1. He didn't believe me when I told him he needed a cat. He bought a new sensor that told him the same thing. I told him again that his cat had stopped working. He took it to a shop that told him his cat wasn't plugged up. I told him it's not plugged, it just isn't doing its job. He had another shop install a new cat. They told him they could see through the old cat so there was nothing wrong with it. I asked if the light came back on after the swap. He said no. I said, "You needed a new cat."
Good to hear from you, Joe!
I realize that I don't know you personally, but the other day (while at work) I said to myself "I haven't heard from Joe in a while," thus causing concern. Glad to see all is well and you're are still kicking ass!
Still kicking, just not as high as I used to lol
Running a business is not easy, lots of overhead, long hours, and dealing with the customer.
The scanners are ridiculously expensive and interpreting how to read wiring diagrams is not like reading the newspaper.
You really gotta know what the hell your doing and because of that nothing is free.
Regarding the repair, awesome dude, absolutely awesome.....
Plus, you gotta get really dirty and bust your knuckles, even though you're the guy that can do all the things the hammer jockeys can't do.
If you can read a roadmap, you can read a schematic. Sometimes you wind up in the middle of nowhere.
Wiring schematics are not for the faint of heart
Not only are the scanners expensive, but the monthly fee to use them to get wire diags and specs, add that to the cost of running a shop.
If you can diagnose properly you will get the repair, and most importantly, returning customers and passing on of good word. Great video Joe.
Every time I watch your videos, which I enjoy, I get scared of taking my cars in to a mechanic who might not be a proper diagnostician. A video on how to find the right guy, or gal, would be great. What do I look for? I'd bring my car to you, but it's 3000 miles too far!
When you don't bring it to Joe in the first place........ But then it ends up at Joe's anyways ........... The customer what's wrong with my car it needs a fuse box .....ok cool......... But yeah it's almost $500 and it's on national backorder 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂............. That's like the type of luck I would have.......great work is always Joe👍👍👍👍
Ya the customer learned his lesson
That's karma coming back to bite a customer in the ass
@@jollyrodger5319 yes sure is you know what they say you get what you pay for Joe's and car wizards labor might be higher but they do a fantastic job and so do there workers
That's a good idea with the external relay, pretty much his only option at this point. Even if the fuse block could be had immediately from Ford it would take forever to get shipped probably and cost a small fortune. Hopefully that other shop didn't have access to wiring schematics, otherwise I don't know how they could not narrow that down for him, scary.
I used to be a tech so I get your frustration, I used to deal with the same stuff. One day I was working on a customer's car and they came around to the overhead "open" door where I was working on their vehicle. They told me that they had to watch me do the repair to make sure I was doing it the right way. I felt like saying, if you know how to fix it how come I'm doing it and not you.
That one never gets old
"You get what you pay for when you pay for diag at the right place." Could not be more true. What absolutely sucks for the average customer is they have no clue how to pick the right place. If only all mechanics had your skill and professional ethics.
Welcome back!! Missed ya!
Respect to your skills & honesty. But, as even paying for diagnosis & repairs often resulted in more stuff breaking & too often...I opted to only buy Toyotas since 2000 (on my second 4Runner after the first one rusted out after 15 years & 200k miles due to salted roads in Midwest & Honda Civic since 2007). These vehicles slowly wear out, never left me stranded & my nearly 14 year old Civic runs like new...absolutely everything works. In contrast my Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Mazda & GM vehicles all disppointed me severely in terms of reliability. But the worst part was all the annoying failures that were expensive to repair, with something totally different breaking soon after... like the widows not working, or heater core going bad and on and on...but as long as people keep buying junky cars we need someone like you to keep them running. Lived in NJ most of my life but left in 93 for a better job...hope you have time to enjoy the summer & the beach, the great food, the ocean fishing...
you've been very fair - you have done what the other shop should have done,given the guy your advice (ie cooling fan),options and alternatives to help him out.Not much more you can do at this point.Already Wasted $500 on parts etc so Just hope the guy learns from this and does it right next time.
I feel you and the message you are trying to get thru, I don't think its ever gonna end.
I was asked to change a water pump... Might be bad... after inspection, the plastic thermostat housing is busted at the seam and will not hold pressure. It might need a water pump but I cannot even test it until the system will hold coolant
Thank you Joe. Another great job. Have a blessed and safe week to you and your family.
Dude. Idk how to make this world understand that a proper diagnostics fee is worth my time
I know I’m ranting. But 90% of shops
Don’t know how to read a diagram.
Joe, If I remember correctly, you said something like, "believe it or not, there are some shops who do not diagnose." I think that not diagnosing must be a common occurrence, when we see cars that Eric O has sent to him from other shops, and when we read or hear about customers who have paid large sums of money for their car to be repaired, and it is still not fixed. The shop installed several new parts, and the problem is still there. There needs to be a reckoning for shops that do this, the reckoning being that they need to pay for the parts themselves.
Ive always looked at electrical issues like plumbing pipe and valves (valves being fuses relays switches etc and the pipes are the wires) though im no expert ive found looking at it like water pipes helps me think of how to trace power issues to the "leak" or issue i still find it difficult understanding wiring diagrams because it looks like NYC'S water system 😂 but im working on it lol
Pretty common way to teach about the basics of electricity is using water flow.
Very well explained path to diagnosis,
Thanks Joe ! I agree 100% the customer should have paid the Diagnostic charge.
Best advice ever Mr Joe!!!
Hey joe dont feel to bad, you cant help people who wont help themselves, but now this customer knows you can diagnose and repair correctly, 😁 good luck
keep up the good work Joe.
Great video and great explanation of a basic circuit. The few minutes you went though can be used on many other parts on a car.
Most mechanics don't want to take the time to run to the wiring circuits to find out what they're needing to find out
@@jollyrodger5319 I have learned the hard way..... Not taking the time to follow the diagram and look at every circuit in the beginning states of troubleshooting. Causes double sometimes triple the amount of time it would have taken to just look at the natural flow of the diagram
Nice work Joe!!!
Terrific job and discussion.
Yes customers can blow your mind. The first thing make sure you have powers and grounds. If it was mine I would put external relays. I don't know if I would do it for a customer. Definitely you must be paid for diagnosis time. Stay safe🇨🇦
So true!! We like guessing here in this area.
13 years ago, our family took our old Cadillac to the dealer because of a parasitic drain. We spent $1000 at the dealer. They replaced the BCM, harnesses and other things. We got the car back, and the battery still died.
After doing some research myself, the problem turned out to be an aftermarket CD Changer. We unplugged it and never had a battery problem again.
Good diag work requires a hell of a lot more knowledge and effort than the actual repair work. A lot of people can't wrap their head around the fact that in some cases they are paying for what you know, not what you do. I know of several shops that are more than willing to convince their customers that a certain part will probably fix their problem, but they're not completely sure. Then when that fails, let's try another part. I can't do that in good conscience. If the price of a suspect part is cheaper than the time to go through all the diag steps, I will replace it without a full diag, but only with the customers ok. Good customers will learn to trust their mechanic.
There's the legend of a marine mechanic being called as a last resort to a dead in the water cruise liner that the ships crew couldn't get to run. He hopped on board climbed down the gangway into the engine room & listened to the behemoth groan as it was being cranked.
Up a set off double stairs & he gave three firm taps to a component & the engine roared to life.
He sent them the invoice & got a call on the carpet.
The CEO of the co. said ; "You're charging $10,000 to hop on board & tap three times with a brass mallet ?, that's a bit much no?
"No, not at all , the service call is $400.00 the $9600.00 is for knowing where to tap."
YOUR diagnosis is worth it . I don't understand how these shops get away with it . The car isn't fixed , but gimme $ 500.00 . BTW , those parts we replaced were bad anyway . After they throw a price at him , the ONLY question is " WILL IT FIX THE CAR " ? I would have SETTLED their bill by offering his net cost on the parts , because they were not necessary , no labor . And they can't be returned . Otherwise , waste at least a half day in small claims court .
I did a diag last night for a medical transport place. They called me and asked if I would please come look at a van because they had to many down and was really desperate. The van was a no crank no start at times also would cut out.. The shop they took it to earlier said it was a vacuum leak and didn't have time right now BRING IT back tomorrow lol. I show up and did my thing took about 45 mins. I found the bolt on the fuse box under the hood was loose, tightened it everything was good. I found it because I had no power at a fuse under the dash then traced it back. The bolt looked fine until you moved it(basically I wasn't lucky I had to find it) The owner was there for the diag. usually I don't do Road calls unless it's for another shop at thier shop. So I gave the guy the bill 150$. Keep in mind it's 730pm the van is 27mins away from me and I fixed it on the side of the road. Also all I have is my phone to use for alldata and anyone that's used alldata on a phone know wiring diagrams are hard to follow you have to screenshot it. I think 150$ was to cheap and this guy said it was way to much for a loose bolt. I tried explaining to him it's finding the problem your paying for usually the repair is easy in a cases like this. Could you imagine what the other shop would have replaced. I had no com with everything but the pats. The other shop said it was a vacuum leak WHAT! SMH. People think it's easy they don't understand the training involved the skill and experience it takes to do a real diag not a freaking Google common repair fix. It's crazy what shops do.
@@TStheDeplorable a little, I could tell by his tone and body language he felt it wasn't fair. He did make a couple comments that also lead me to that conclusion. The sad part is the mechanic shop he has working on his fleet are hacks. I did work for him before and I'm not even joking about this next one. He brings a van that the blinkers and rear brakes lights would go out. The shop bypass the fuse box and wires in a circuit breaker. After the circuit breaker triped it would reset then he would have brake lights again for about 8 seconds. The issue was when they installed the wheelchair lift 3 years ago they pitched the harness and eventually it rubbed threw. I just got my snap on thermal Imager that day. I found the issue in about 5 mins no lie. It was around 40 degrees out dark and the wire light up like a Christmas tree. That shops cheaper then me so he sticks with them and only calls me when he has no choice.
Well auto zone does if for free
Yup and they will happily sell you lots of new parts to go along with those codes for you lol
Nice job Joe you were 100% right people need to start conditioning customers that way rather than shotgun parts. I’m not sure why they don’t go back to that shop and demand money back just crazy to me.
see it so many times .... costumer self diagnostic .... replaced battery twice then was on to the alternator , that is where i was asked to install the alternator , and bam not the problem .... asked if he wanted to have a diagnostic performed , he refused .... kept telling me it was a bad part .... 2006 jag .... told him it could be several problems still no diagnostic was wanted .... so what do you do , only thing you can do send it down the road till they finally realize it needs to be checked properly ....
Here in Canada Ontario the Dealership charges almost $130 for plugging there scan tool in and providing you with codes on paper and if you want to know what’s wrong with each code it’s a hour of there time for each code which comes up to $120.00 an hour
great knowledge,
Diagnosis pays because diagnosis saves. It can save the customer time and money. This customer took the time to call multiple shops, took his car to a shop, paid for parts and labor to fix a problem (that didn't get fixed). They then brought it to you to diagnose properly. It doesn't make sense to waste that much money and even more time just to "save" on a diagnostic fee. Educate the customers you can, charge the ones you can't.
People watch too many Scotty Kilmer videos. He makes it seem like mechanics should know exactly what's wrong just by being asked a question.
😂😂😂I😂😂 learned everything I know from that guy. Watched his videos over and over until I could just fix everything😂
Also he just plugs in the scan tool and it tells him exactly what to do. Recently I saw him replace a coil because there was a misfire code. I couldn't believe it. I don't know why, but I couldn't believe it.
People still watch that guy? 🤣
@@KC9UDX Yeah, I've seen a video where he was "diagnosing" a no-crank no-start on a Dodge Ram. Right away, he claims that it's "probably the stupid computerized key" causing the problem so he pulls out his "fancy scan tool" to check for codes and finds nothing relevant. I noticed when he turned the key on that the security indicator turned on for the bulb check and then turned off, indicating the security system is functioning normally. I could have deduced that before even unpacking the scan tool, and I would have headed directly to the starting circuit.
@@josephwash109 unfortunately most people watching learn from him that it's normal for anyone to just plug in the scanner, shotgun replace a part, and then give up.
Your RIGHT Bro, 35 years here, Oh, the stories :)
Joe you are correct. External relays and wiring would have been the cheaper option. It is a shame that some other shop/s threw parts at it that were good.
If your diagnostic leads to a fix without swapping parts unnecessarily, then I wholeheartedly agree that you should be paid for diagnostic time even if the customer declines the repair. Auto electric shops that diagnose electrical issues are their main stay and some customers don’t appreciate your ability to test before throwing parts and hoping the problem is fixed by coincidence.
It is sad that the previous shop threw parts without knowing they were really defective. $500 is a huge bill IMHO for what they did. You did the honest, trustworthy job during diagnosis.
No doubt the guy is not the brightest bulb. But the shop should of refunded him 100% if they didnt fix it. Good video Joe, always on point.
My neighbor had an Olds Aurora with the dual climate control (1 for driver side 1 for passengers) and the blower motor was stuck on. Took it to a place and they charged him for 2 1/2 hours diagnostic fee and installed a toggle switch (on/off) for the repair and charged him somewhere around $385 range ( I can't remember the exact amount) but it was stupid amount of money and their idea of a repair!
You are absolutely right man! Great tip
Nothing changes Joe: No matter how much money people have, they'll always want something for nothing. They can't seem to figure out that the firms are going to make money somehow & that's by selling unwanted parts at inflated prices. Then they come to people like us to have the job done properly but don't want to pay for the service, sadly it'll never change.
You stay safe out there brother 👍
All too often I get and see cars that were "diagnosed" and 1/2 the parts under the hood are new looking and the problem still isn't fixed. I've even called my boss out a time or to for "guessing at a diagnosed" and not testing to verify....
Great information as always, Joe.
Great job and video
Great video---just wonder what caused the fusebox to go on fire when fuses are there to protect circuits.
Loose connections, oxidation will cause heat due to high resistance. Heat is bad...
@@JoesAutoElectric Thanks Joe. I only ask as I had a similar issue with a fuel pump wire burning out in the fusebox but the 7.5 amp fuse protecting the circuit didn't blow. Luckily, no further damage done--wire re soldered and back on the road. Does seem that fuses are only useful if their amperage is exceeded or a short circuit.
Life is life you give him an alternative joe and he didn’t take it some customers are like beach balls they bounce around everywhere thanks for sharing
People will pay for goods - paying for skill and experience is a different matter....
Everybody thinks knowledge is free so they don't have to pay for it
Great job Joe, am wondering what caused these wires to melt down?
Bad design
Unbelievable that a shop would throw parts at a car without a proper troubleshooting procedure. I understand anyone can make a mistake, but to waste someone's money is terrible. I do my own work whenever possible because of shops like that one. I'm sick of paying for crap workmanship. Good one Joe.
yup, same here - having experiences with this type of shop that throws parts is what started me on learning to do my own work. downside is, i became the car guy in the family! lol.
I charge one hour of Iabor for diagnosis. I have done this long enough that I can, almost always, find the problem in less than one hour. If it takes longer, well, OK; I'll make that back tomorrow.
Up front, I tell my customers that I will apply half of the diagnosis charge to the repair if they elect to have me make the repair. That has the effect of keeping them around rather than having them go home and fix things (f**k everything up) themselves.
Good advice good up front service
As usual, Common sense from Joe. 👍
dodge dakota forums are full of folks that could learn from good diagnoses, after replacing everything under the hood the truck still won't run rite.
Note: not bashing dodge, but trying to fix ours, and going thru diagnosis has saved big$$$
Shouldn't the guy be pissed off with the garage putting the blower motor and resistor in it?He must have driven out their garage with his motor still not working?I'd love to know what he said to them,or if he was too nice to say anything?:-)
Is this the same fusebox as the MK1 Mazda 6 by any chance?
hey joe glad to see your good! agreed right on as usual
Your awesome man you should open a shop in California and charge top dollar your worth it!
Send me a message if your interested
That thumbnail lettering had me expecting diary of a madman to be playing in the background
hahahah! Copyrights and all lol
Test test test before firing the parts cannon.
Hey Joe , would that show up on the infrared camera?
Probably not.
no sir not hard to believe when they only want to pay low flate rate wages but charge big money to the customer.
as a guy thats been around a few years i have seen the change in this industry
use to be 5 to 15 min to diag 5 to 15 hours to fix to what we have now 5 to 15 hours diag to 1 hour repair
the industry is on a collision course with cross roads that will force change
Is a frustrating part of our chosen Trade Joe but a reality ' even in New Zealand here we have either the guess work junkies or the ones that watch a few you tube video's and guess based on bad diag practice ' diagnostics takes time and practice the right tools and understanding on how the tools should be used ! thats what you get paid for not guessing ' ' and so we should this trade is not cheap to get into with the cost of scanners and other testing equipment Dam im mobile and cart around close to 50k in gear just keep up with whats needed in todays motoring
Great video!
Agreed!
In my experience, mechanics & shops do this so they don't have to face the consequences of being wrong. If I'm not sure about a diagnosis, I just let the customer know they need to have someone else look at it. There is no shame in not figuring out a particular problem. On the other hand, a false diagnosis makes you look crooked whether or not you charge for it.
Pretty neat using a dummy load to troubleshoot. Why is it that people don't value another person's time? Smart thing for the guy would have been pay the diag fee and put in an external relay for the fans cooling system. Facepalm.
You might be surprised how much you can do yourself with a simple scan tool and a power probe. At least you'll be able to talk more reasonably to the shop and hopefully reach a cost effective solution.
Yeah man! Really well said.
Every time I watch your video’s I wish I knew a shop like yours in the Buffalo NY area,someone that is as through as you.
Same here. Went to a shop to get my old car diagnosed, it has a hunting idle. The tech looked at it for two minutes, said he didn't know what's wrong and sold me a bottle of fuel additive. Have a nice day. No interest whatsoever in doing actual work. I get that it's a BMW but at the end of the day it's all nuts and bolts.
I think it’s important to bring up that not all auto professionals are as skilled as yourself. People get burned by bad diags by lesser mechanics
Thank you.
Being cheap is often a very expensive way to go
He learned his lesson for 500 he could of paid you and his car would be like new it would only take joe 20 minutes or 30 maybe longer but his car be like new
How much does it cost for a diagnosis these days ?
Minimum of an hour. However, many places will charge more than that, like dealers. I have seen them tell a customer they need a minimum of 3-4 hours so...it can vary I suppose. I do it as fairly as possible for my customers.
If you have a problem. Get it checked out to make sure. 500.00 diagnostic is better than 1000.00 in parts if it doesnt fix the real issue.
People think the mechanic will say "had to replace your blower motor, that was $400, and the diag was $120", and they'll think well, I already told you what was wrong, you charged me an extra $120.
Yep . i get that all the time.
wait, how do you sell a blower and resistor without checking for power at the motor/resistor? i hate people
Joe think how many cars you got from other shops that threw parts at the car new car dealers are even guilty of this practice !! some tech is not going to make money on the job they ship the car and bullsit the customer I say the parts stores are the blame they use a scanner and sell parts they tell the customer hey try this part it's cheaper than going to the dealer or a garage ! sad but true take care and all we can do is give our best try and use that tool knoledge that should be in every ones tool box !!
👍👍
Paid diagnostic: fuse box, pigtails
Unpaid diagnostic: it's a Ford
That hurts lol
notorious for melting down harnesses though