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I was listening to some guy waffle on about this subject on another video and realising I wasn't actually learning anything. So glad you were able to sum it up in a minute and forty four seconds.
This is literally what I was looking for, not to discredit the longer videos, but I really just wanted a basic breakdown before I got a balanced cable. Thank you so much for this.
Dont worry to discredit longer videos... because if something could be explained in one minute it doesnt deserve credit if it took longer... and do not explain anything as a bonus... as I watched....
Thank you very much for that simple yet complete (complete enough for my needs, anyway!) explanation! A month or so ago I got a new turntable that was capable of XLR output, and a new phono amp that was capable of XLR input. My previous turntable and phono amp just used RCA connections, and with that combination I could not get rid of ground loop hum. The new system, with the XLR connections, completely eliminated the ground loop hum.
Unfortunately most turntables, dj mixers and hi-fi equipment still use RCA and I have the same exact problem when i try to connect my tv to external speakers. We'll be doing a video on DI-boxes soon that helps solve these problems. Thank you for your comment!
I understand what you are saying, but you could have gotten rid of the noise without going balanced. That said, balanced is better, its just that it could have been fixed without buying new gear. In the future, you can save yourself some money. All stereo phono cartridges are inherently balanced. Most of the time they get wired single ended. If you want to get a balanced signal from your turntable, replace the tonearm cable with one that's balanced. There's no need to buy a new cartridge.
Okay makes sense but can you explain what dose semi balanced means? I saw a video where they take a cable and solder the shield to the ground on one to the RCA end and dose not do the same on the other end they just do not connect the shield to anything and they call it semi balanced… could you please explain this? 🙏
No. Balanced and single ended operation are not compatible with each other. You can mix the components, but you have to know what you're doing. If you want a balanced connection, the 2 components you are connecting needs to be balanced. That said, you can still plug your guitar into the mixer, but you'll need something called a direct or DI box. You plug your guitar into the DI box, and turns your single ended connection into a balanced connection. They're not that expensive. Any music store will definitely have them. However, before you do that, check the owners manual for your mixer. A lot of newer mixers can take a single ended connection directly. They basically take the DI box I just mentioned, and put the same thing in the mixer itself. Its the exact same thing. They just put it somewhere else.
@@jonathanotrujillo Aaah, I see :D You'd need a TRS (stereo) jack, 1st signal is the Tip 2nd signal is the Ring Ground is the Sleeve We explain a bit more in our audio connections video if that helps: th-cam.com/video/617z88J8060/w-d-xo.html
If you are talking about what to do with the 2nd signal conductor, I assume that you are trying to connect a single ended component to a balanced component, The 2 modes of operation are not compatible just for that reason. These types of discussions always focus on the cables. The cables don't make a connection balanced. The 2 components you are connecting does. Think of it like high definition video. The HDMI cable isn't what makes the system HD. The TV and whatever you have for a source, cable box, dvd player, etc..., makes it HD. The cable just connects them. If you turn to a channel that's not HD, you don't get it. It has nothing to do with the cable. Its the same thing with balancing. If everything you need to make a balanced connection isn't in place, the connection defaults to single ended operation (If you're lucky), which means only 2 of the 3 pins on your cable are used. Its identical to using an rca cable. And like I said, if you're lucky. When it comes to balancing a connection, there's no one way to do it. There are several different methods. This brings me back to your comment on what to do with the extra signal conductor. Quite often, when you buy adaptors, or cables with built in adaptors, they deal with the extra conductor by shunting the number 2 pin to ground, so plugging it into a component that outputs a balanced signal instantly creates a short circuit. You need to know when you can use products like this, and when you can't. I've never been that good at explaining things, and there is too much information to put in a post like this, so I'm including a reference. It goes over all the different ways you can safely make a balanced connection. If you go over it carefully, you should have no problem figuring out what you need to do. The diagrams are well labeled and easy to understand. www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107 If that link doesn't work for some reason, do a search for "rane balanced connection", and it should show up in the results.
or how it gets inverted... he makes it sound like it self inverts somehow to cancel noise, then to get the signal back, but it uninverts and is missing the noise??? I don't think so.
Nice animation work! But I would like to point out that "balanced audio" doesn't necessarily come with an inversion pair. The inverted and summed technique is actually called "differential." The original meaning of a balanced wire is to have the same amount of interference. Nowadays, balanced audio often involves both balance and differential. Without either one, the noise cannot be effectively canceled out.
Audio university has a video on this and explains that this is a misconception. However my professors explained it like this as well and now I'm very confused
True :D The exact technical definition of balanced audio has more to do with the impedance of the two signal wires being the same and the way a differential amplifier can reject a signal that's common in both wires (i.e. the noise that's been picked up). Audio university is correct in that you don't need a second inverted signal to make a balanced connection (what is called a differential pair) and I think his video is very thorough on the subject. We were also taught in uni about balanced being differential, I think because it's slightly easier to practically understand that way and focus on its benefits for sound recording without additionally being confused by impedance and differential amplifiers, which tend to be more in the realm of electronic engineering. Also because a lot of the time balanced connection are indeed differential (which as an added bonus makes the output stronger). In any case, from an audio engineering / musician perspective, I think the main takeaways here should be: What are the benefits of a balanced connection in terms of noise reduction? How is a mono balanced connection different to a stereo unbalanced one, although they might be using a similar cable and similar ports? I hope this helps clear the confusion a bit :D
Hy, so...i got a pair of audio monitors (presonus eris), they were a cheaper quality option than a pair of standar stereo speakers for my pc. The question is: What would be the cheapest way to use them with a balanced audio signal, without using an expensive audio interface. Since I only want to listen to quality music and not to produce it.
@@arbitersofsound Thanks for your time bro. For now im using an usb soundcard (creative xfi 5.1) with rca outputs to the monitors, so the audio Quality is decent, but the noise or hum is crazy, really distracting. I know there are unsafe ways to remove the noise (like removing the ground cable from the power strip), so im just looking for a safe way to do it, with a budget of $ 40-60 maybe.
@@Atomxtube Ah, that sucks... Is the card usb powered? Also is your pc a desktop or a laptop? That hum is prob pc related, so I'd bet that the solution here isn't necessarily balanced cables but isolating the audio signal from the ground of the pc.
@@arbitersofsound yep the card is usb powered and it has an optical out too , but i dont know if there is a way to use it on the monitors. Also tried to conect the monitors directly to my desktop using a 3.5mm to trs cable. Same result. Cheapest interfaces doesnt have balanced outputs, and the ones that have it, are more expensive than the monitors jaja... Im stuck.
In the video, it states that when you balance the signal, it makes it stereo. That's not the case. You need separate left and right cables regardless if its a single ended or balanced connection. Probably the best example is a microphone. Those are mono.
Maybe it is not presented very clearly, but we are trying to show the difference between a stereo unbalanced connection and a mono balanced one (which could be using the same type of cable). We never stated that a balanced signal is stereo.
The noise is added equally both to the original and the inverted signal. So on one wire you have the original signal +noise, on the other you have the inverted signal +noise. In the end you invert the second wire and add the two signals together so you get: (original signal + noise) + inverted (inverted signal + noise) = original signal +noise + original signal + inverted noise = 2 x original signal + no noise I hope this made sense :D
What a heck... in 90 seconds I ve got it! After watching hours and hours of bullshit "educational" videos???? And I want to know the name of that genius who came with that simple a genius idea of cancelling noise by double changing polarity.... he/she deserve a bipolar medal...
I swear, Ive heard this explained over and over and I still don't believe it, how does it know what the noise is and what isn't noise to only cancel out noise but reverse polarity ONLY minus that noise? I kind of think it's a lie being told to the public tbh.
You have 2 signals that are the same, one is normal the other reversed. Then you send them through the cable and they BOTH pick up the same noise (since they are travelling next to each other). The noise gets added to both signals. Now at the receiving end you end up getting two signals: the normal signal +noise, and the reverse signal +noise. If you reverse the second one it becomes the normal signal (again) +reversed noise. Now add both signals and you have: [normal signal]+[noise]+[normal signal]+[reverse noise]= 2x[signal]+[noise]+[reverse noise]= 2x[signal] (since noise and reverse noise cancel each other out) That's basically how it happens. It doesn't "know" what noise is. By inverting the same signal before sending it and also inverting it when receiving it you can force whatever signals were added on top of it on the way to the receiver to cancel themselves out. I hope this helped clarify things a bit :D
It’s reversing the entire signal, it’s just that at the time of that second reversal, the original signals are out of phase already and the noise is in phase. So when you do that second reversal, the original signals become in phase, and the noise becomes out of phase
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HOW DOES THIS ONLY HAVE 300 VIEWS???? Good sir you have saved my A level in music technology I thank you greatly
I looked up "balanced vs unbalanced audio" and this is the first video I opened, didn't expect the explanation to be this simple. Thanks!
You are welcome! Glad we helped!
within 2 minutes you covered more than most professors could
say less, my prof said that the balanced signal is grounded to the gear chassis..
I was listening to some guy waffle on about this subject on another video and realising I wasn't actually learning anything. So glad you were able to sum it up in a minute and forty four seconds.
Very happy that we helped! Thanks for the positive feedback!
This is how things should be explained, thanks!
Thanks so much for your positive feedback!
I honestly was not expecting to get a real explanation in a
You are very welcome :D
This is literally what I was looking for, not to discredit the longer videos, but I really just wanted a basic breakdown before I got a balanced cable. Thank you so much for this.
Dont worry to discredit longer videos... because if something could be explained in one minute it doesnt deserve credit if it took longer... and do not explain anything as a bonus... as I watched....
So much easier to grasp presented this way, thanks!
I never really understood what is a balanced audio cable until now. Your explanation is so simple! Thanks!
My minds blown right now, thats really smart.
Simple easy with perfect animation finaly understood it completely. Thank you.
Perfect concise explanation of a topic I needed a refresher on. Thank You!
Very good explanation and simulation
Thanks!! This makes a lot more sense than my textbook could explain it
Thank you very much for that simple yet complete (complete enough for my needs, anyway!) explanation! A month or so ago I got a new turntable that was capable of XLR output, and a new phono amp that was capable of XLR input. My previous turntable and phono amp just used RCA connections, and with that combination I could not get rid of ground loop hum. The new system, with the XLR connections, completely eliminated the ground loop hum.
Unfortunately most turntables, dj mixers and hi-fi equipment still use RCA and I have the same exact problem when i try to connect my tv to external speakers. We'll be doing a video on DI-boxes soon that helps solve these problems. Thank you for your comment!
I understand what you are saying, but you could have gotten rid of the noise without going balanced. That said, balanced is better, its just that it could have been fixed without buying new gear.
In the future, you can save yourself some money. All stereo phono cartridges are inherently balanced. Most of the time they get wired single ended. If you want to get a balanced signal from your turntable, replace the tonearm cable with one that's balanced. There's no need to buy a new cartridge.
Informative and to the point. 10/10!
This is perfectly explained and brief, thanks! I finally understand
Okay makes sense but can you explain what dose semi balanced means? I saw a video where they take a cable and solder the shield to the ground on one to the RCA end and dose not do the same on the other end they just do not connect the shield to anything and they call it semi balanced… could you please explain this? 🙏
Everything makes much more sense, now ! Thanks
Can I run a ts cable from a guitar amp thru line out if it says mono trs balanced . To my mixer?
What amp are you using? Is this a speaker sim out?
In general you can run an ts cable, but its not going to be balanced.
No. Balanced and single ended operation are not compatible with each other. You can mix the components, but you have to know what you're doing. If you want a balanced connection, the 2 components you are connecting needs to be balanced. That said, you can still plug your guitar into the mixer, but you'll need something called a direct or DI box. You plug your guitar into the DI box, and turns your single ended connection into a balanced connection. They're not that expensive. Any music store will definitely have them.
However, before you do that, check the owners manual for your mixer. A lot of newer mixers can take a single ended connection directly. They basically take the DI box I just mentioned, and put the same thing in the mixer itself. Its the exact same thing. They just put it somewhere else.
nice! i never knew that these cable worked by reversing the polarity.
Perfect explaination, thanks!
Happy to help!
Thank you very much, clearly explained. ❤
Great explanation. But where do I connect the second signal ? To the same pin where the signal one is connected to?
1 pin is the signal
2 pin is the second signal
3 pin is ground
:D
@@arbitersofsound yeah I knew that. But plug connection I don’t
@@jonathanotrujillo Aaah, I see :D
You'd need a TRS (stereo) jack,
1st signal is the Tip
2nd signal is the Ring
Ground is the Sleeve
We explain a bit more in our audio connections video if that helps:
th-cam.com/video/617z88J8060/w-d-xo.html
@@arbitersofsoundthanks 😅 you’re really helpful
If you are talking about what to do with the 2nd signal conductor, I assume that you are trying to connect a single ended component to a balanced component, The 2 modes of operation are not compatible just for that reason. These types of discussions always focus on the cables. The cables don't make a connection balanced. The 2 components you are connecting does. Think of it like high definition video. The HDMI cable isn't what makes the system HD. The TV and whatever you have for a source, cable box, dvd player, etc..., makes it HD. The cable just connects them. If you turn to a channel that's not HD, you don't get it. It has nothing to do with the cable. Its the same thing with balancing. If everything you need to make a balanced connection isn't in place, the connection defaults to single ended operation (If you're lucky), which means only 2 of the 3 pins on your cable are used. Its identical to using an rca cable. And like I said, if you're lucky. When it comes to balancing a connection, there's no one way to do it. There are several different methods. This brings me back to your comment on what to do with the extra signal conductor. Quite often, when you buy adaptors, or cables with built in adaptors, they deal with the extra conductor by shunting the number 2 pin to ground, so plugging it into a component that outputs a balanced signal instantly creates a short circuit. You need to know when you can use products like this, and when you can't.
I've never been that good at explaining things, and there is too much information to put in a post like this, so I'm including a reference. It goes over all the different ways you can safely make a balanced connection. If you go over it carefully, you should have no problem figuring out what you need to do. The diagrams are well labeled and easy to understand. www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107
If that link doesn't work for some reason, do a search for "rane balanced connection", and it should show up in the results.
Great explanation! Thank you 🎉
Thanks Amir, glad it was useful!
I finally understand, brilliant
It would be great if you could explain how the original signal is inverted (out of phase) on one of the two wires.
or how it gets inverted... he makes it sound like it self inverts somehow to cancel noise, then to get the signal back, but it uninverts and is missing the noise??? I don't think so.
Nice animation work! But I would like to point out that "balanced audio" doesn't necessarily come with an inversion pair. The inverted and summed technique is actually called "differential." The original meaning of a balanced wire is to have the same amount of interference. Nowadays, balanced audio often involves both balance and differential. Without either one, the noise cannot be effectively canceled out.
You are absolutely right!
Audio university has a video on this and explains that this is a misconception. However my professors explained it like this as well and now I'm very confused
True :D
The exact technical definition of balanced audio has more to do with the impedance of the two signal wires being the same and the way a differential amplifier can reject a signal that's common in both wires (i.e. the noise that's been picked up).
Audio university is correct in that you don't need a second inverted signal to make a balanced connection (what is called a differential pair) and I think his video is very thorough on the subject.
We were also taught in uni about balanced being differential, I think because it's slightly easier to practically understand that way and focus on its benefits for sound recording without additionally being confused by impedance and differential amplifiers, which tend to be more in the realm of electronic engineering. Also because a lot of the time balanced connection are indeed differential (which as an added bonus makes the output stronger).
In any case, from an audio engineering / musician perspective, I think the main takeaways here should be:
What are the benefits of a balanced connection in terms of noise reduction?
How is a mono balanced connection different to a stereo unbalanced one, although they might be using a similar cable and similar ports?
I hope this helps clear the confusion a bit :D
@@arbitersofsound Great reply!
Hy, so...i got a pair of audio monitors (presonus eris), they were a cheaper quality option than a pair of standar stereo speakers for my pc. The question is:
What would be the cheapest way to use them with a balanced audio signal, without using an expensive audio interface. Since I only want to listen to quality music and not to produce it.
That's tough to answer :P
What's the budget?
Also have you noticed noise or hum using them unbalanced?
@@arbitersofsound Thanks for your time bro. For now im using an usb soundcard (creative xfi 5.1) with rca outputs to the monitors, so the audio Quality is decent, but the noise or hum is crazy, really distracting. I know there are unsafe ways to remove the noise (like removing the ground cable from the power strip), so im just looking for a safe way to do it, with a budget of $ 40-60 maybe.
@@Atomxtube Ah, that sucks... Is the card usb powered? Also is your pc a desktop or a laptop? That hum is prob pc related, so I'd bet that the solution here isn't necessarily balanced cables but isolating the audio signal from the ground of the pc.
@@Atomxtube Also, if your pc is a desktop, does its motherboard have some kind of digital audio out?
@@arbitersofsound yep the card is usb powered and it has an optical out too , but i dont know if there is a way to use it on the monitors. Also tried to conect the monitors directly to my desktop using a 3.5mm to trs cable. Same result. Cheapest interfaces doesnt have balanced outputs, and the ones that have it, are more expensive than the monitors jaja... Im stuck.
Now that's how you explain it!
Thanks for the love!
Thanks!
Thank YOU!
In the video, it states that when you balance the signal, it makes it stereo. That's not the case. You need separate left and right cables regardless if its a single ended or balanced connection. Probably the best example is a microphone. Those are mono.
Maybe it is not presented very clearly, but we are trying to show the difference between a stereo unbalanced connection and a mono balanced one (which could be using the same type of cable).
We never stated that a balanced signal is stereo.
How do I remove the noise from someone who gives me mixed signals?
The block button is your friend 😉
I don´t quite understand.. why it just cancels de noise and not the sound waves?
The noise is added equally both to the original and the inverted signal.
So on one wire you have the original signal +noise,
on the other you have the inverted signal +noise.
In the end you invert the second wire and add the two signals together so you get:
(original signal + noise) + inverted (inverted signal + noise) =
original signal +noise + original signal + inverted noise =
2 x original signal + no noise
I hope this made sense :D
does balanced cables send a stronger signal than unbalanced???
Yes, in theory it should be twice as strong.
Y en la practica para que sirve?
Menos ruido y senal mas fuerte.
Puede usar cables mas largos tambien.
(lo siento por mi espanol :D)
You saved my ass hahaah
I'm confused, why isn't this preceeded by 25 minutes of irrelevant rambling? (super helpful video, thank you!)
Sorry, guess we’re not that good at TH-cam yet 😄
Yup. Still not going in.
What a heck... in 90 seconds I ve got it! After watching hours and hours of bullshit "educational" videos???? And I want to know the name of that genius who came with that simple a genius idea of cancelling noise by double changing polarity.... he/she deserve a bipolar medal...
Yet another wrong explanation. Try checking against a proper engineering source for the correct definition of balanced. Yours isn't it.
So if his explanation is wrong what exactly is wrong with it? What good sources you have to debunk his claims? Can you make a better explanation?
I swear, Ive heard this explained over and over and I still don't believe it, how does it know what the noise is and what isn't noise to only cancel out noise but reverse polarity ONLY minus that noise? I kind of think it's a lie being told to the public tbh.
You have 2 signals that are the same, one is normal the other reversed. Then you send them through the cable and they BOTH pick up the same noise (since they are travelling next to each other). The noise gets added to both signals. Now at the receiving end you end up getting two signals: the normal signal +noise, and the reverse signal +noise. If you reverse the second one it becomes the normal signal (again) +reversed noise.
Now add both signals and you have:
[normal signal]+[noise]+[normal signal]+[reverse noise]=
2x[signal]+[noise]+[reverse noise]=
2x[signal] (since noise and reverse noise cancel each other out)
That's basically how it happens. It doesn't "know" what noise is. By inverting the same signal before sending it and also inverting it when receiving it you can force whatever signals were added on top of it on the way to the receiver to cancel themselves out. I hope this helped clarify things a bit :D
@@arbitersofsound But you see... how is it ONLY reversing the noise and now the entire signal?
It’s reversing the entire signal, it’s just that at the time of that second reversal, the original signals are out of phase already and the noise is in phase. So when you do that second reversal, the original signals become in phase, and the noise becomes out of phase