Glad I saw this video pop up on the Reaper discord. As I mentioned there, I'm certainly not a pianist (or even good on the keys in general), I love me some Pianoteq and have no regrets getting it. Pianoteq is actually what got me to get an Arturia KeyLab 88 Essential. While the keys might not be fully weighted, it was almost painful playing on my KeyLab 61 essential (which is a straight up synth action) - even for gooning out synth lines. Anyway, I picked up the Petrof, Steinway D, the Yamaha (YC5 - hooray licensing!), Grotrian, and U4 Upright (I'm not sure what that one is based off of). It's certainly not cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than buying any one piano. Time to dumpster dive the rest of your channel for Pianoteq videos!
Yes, having a good keyboard is super important! Even if it sounds great, it won't feel like a real piano without it, and it changes the way you play. I've got everything piano related in a playlist, I try to keep it easy to find whatever video you're looking for ;)
Nice explanations. One thing I've always struggled with was the perceived brightness of the upper and lower ranges of the model (Steinway D) and I've invested considerable time in tampering with the spectrum profile in the note edit section of the pro version with limited success. Your video made me aware of the fact that I should probably explore the the settings of the hammer hardness a bit more.
Yeah I would always start with hammer hardness and the velocity curve of your keyboard first, since it's a lot faster. I'm not sure if the pro version allows for voicing certain notes octaves differently, but that's how it would be done on a real piano. You may want more aggressive bass notes and softer treble, for example.
@@NickLeonard yeah Nick, they really are, although I never got a chance to play one but only listen to it live. Anyway, I really appreciate your videos on here, and your knowledge as a piano tuner. I own a digital piano Yamaha P-515 which I really like but I'm finding hard to find a proper velocity curve with Pianoteq as the P-515 has a very heavy keyboard and it's really hard to get to make it play loud unless you use a sledgehammer, which is something I'm not crazy for about this DP. Where in the US are you, buddy? If you ever come overseas let me know, I'll buy a real Italian pizza and I'll ask you to help me figure out a velocity curve for my piano ;-)
@@MaxRiley I've played 2 Faziolis and they're fantastic, though I think a bit better for jazz or pop than classical. Have you tried the keyboard calibration wizard? That's a good place to start, but you can tweak it from there. I've played around a lot with the velocity curves, but it's hard to nail it for me too. You can easily make it get to Forte faster, but getting it to respond exactly like an acoustic piano is tough, especially when no digital piano feels quite the same as a real piano. I also do love neapolitan pizza and learn from Italian chefs online for my own dough at home. I'm in MD on the east coast. Never been to Italy, but hopefully I'll make it there one day!
hi thx a lot , i am a piano user but had no clue of how it works and with pianoteq and its many settings i am lost it will help for sure. thing I do is as you said I like to have my piano a bit detuned lol i don''t like the perfect sound i like my piano to sound a bit as if had been left in an big manor or whatever lol and I play on it...
Hi Nick, would you like to do a video about how "let off" (escapement) works and allowing fast notes and how grand pianos can have it vs upright pianos?
Very interesting. I now know why all those old pianos I've heard or played (badly I should say) are generally brighter than a well maintained one. The hammers need some work and deteriorated so more highs are let through. Sounds like Pianoteq is mostly there, but the sustain pedal stuff needs work. It would also be nice to adjust the shape and height of the mic room like you said. I'll probably end up making the piano super dry and treat it with some external verb plugin or IR's later. Awesome stuf. Off to research Pianoteq more. haha Cheers and keep up the great vids!
I do think Pianoteq is the best out there. There are some really good sample libraries, and you do get the realism of a real recording, however, sample libraries just can't recreate all the complex interactions of a real piano. Things like sympathetic resonance for example. Of course, it's a lot easier to get a realistic piano library than guitar or solo violin. The sustain pedal issue is pretty minor, it would be nice to have that addressed, and it probably could be with retrigger settings or some kind of map that tracks damper position and travel, but it's also not a big deal to just turn it down. It's the kind of sound that usually you want minimized through regulation and recording technique anyways.
@@NickLeonard Do you mean Pianoteq doesn't do sympathetic resonance modelling which Yamaha does in their hybrid and digital pianos? (Yamaha call it VRM - Virtual Resonance Modeling). Also, how well does the Korg D1 / Pianoteq combination capture accentuated touch? (playing softly or strongly)
@@GordonDeMuse it definitely does sympathetic resonance, duplex resonance, and you can control the levels of it all, that's the beauty of modeling! The D1 also capture touch (velocty) quite well, almost any keyboard does, but the D1 has the flagship action from Korg, so it's very good. I've yet to feel a digital piano that 1:1 identical in feel and performance to an acoustic piano, but I do like the D1 a lot
@@NickLeonard Hi! First of all, thanks for the video, btw since you're already mentioning digital piano action, which one is from your experience the closest to the real piano? I would like to upgrade my digital piano and to get as close as possible to real piano action, and I'm thinking about Kawai MP7 or MP11. Have you tried them? Thanks again!
@@fortissimoX I have only played acoustic Kawai's so I can't say, both are expensive, so they should be in their flagship action territory. I don't think a digital will ever feel exactly like an acoustic, but as long as you enjoy playing it and it works for you, it's good!
Hi Nick, what amplification and speakers do you use with your Korg D1 / Pianoteq combination? If you are just using what's in the keyboard or PC, what do you suggest using for more realism?
I just use my normal monitors, Kali IN8s, or my ATH M50 headphones. If you want something that sounds like you're playing a piano in real life, probably some high end very neutral headphones and binaural mode is the way to go. Most the time, Pianoteq or a sampler is emulating the sound of a recorded piano
I'm curious, is there a reason piano keys have to be the width that they do? Obviously having a standard width is valuable because it allows pianists to adjust to different pianos more easily, but on the other hand, wouldn't it be valuable to pianists with small hands to have the option to play on an instrument with proportionally narrower keys?
There have been custom instruments made, they're just rare and expensive. There's no real reason a slightly narrower keyboard wouldn't work mechanically, it would just require a redesign of the action and that's very expensive for something with a limited market
That would be quite heavy for acoustic, but pretty normal for digital pianos, not sure why they're so much higher, but ie tested a few brands and they all come out high. They certainly don't feel as heavy as 60+ would on a grand piano though!
@@NickLeonard why wouldn't it be? 60g is 60g... so the same pressure and then you can adjust the velocity curve with pianoteq for example. At a time i would switch from digital to accoustic didn't feel much difference. It would not be in the touch but vibration from the strings etc
@@yussef961 there's downweight, upweight, friction, and the "curve" of the weight. With digital, I've noticed there is a lot more weight to get started, at the top of the key, but it eases off drastically after that. An acoustic piano is the opposite, it's lightest at the top of the stroke. I think the tools and measurements used on acoustic pianos don't really accurately portray the same thing with digital pianos
@@NickLeonard maybe but it depends on accoustic as well, not sure it makes much difference... between a synth with no weighted keys it does yes but with hammers etc.. (because it can be weighted or with hammer action and mine has small hammers too so i guess it makes a difference as well)
they do, and it's one area that's not great for realism, at least, the damper pedal lift sound itself is the same sound but scales in volume and retriggers at each input, so my analog damper pedal generates many steps when it's moved at all and each triggers the same sound at whatever velocity
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
Very interesting. I thought since it's modeling, Pianoteq would always be perfectly in tune... Now I understand many more nuances.
Glad I saw this video pop up on the Reaper discord.
As I mentioned there, I'm certainly not a pianist (or even good on the keys in general), I love me some Pianoteq and have no regrets getting it.
Pianoteq is actually what got me to get an Arturia KeyLab 88 Essential. While the keys might not be fully weighted, it was almost painful playing on my KeyLab 61 essential (which is a straight up synth action) - even for gooning out synth lines.
Anyway, I picked up the Petrof, Steinway D, the Yamaha (YC5 - hooray licensing!), Grotrian, and U4 Upright (I'm not sure what that one is based off of). It's certainly not cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than buying any one piano.
Time to dumpster dive the rest of your channel for Pianoteq videos!
Yes, having a good keyboard is super important! Even if it sounds great, it won't feel like a real piano without it, and it changes the way you play. I've got everything piano related in a playlist, I try to keep it easy to find whatever video you're looking for ;)
Nick! Awesome! thank you for this... i'm only 10 minutes in
and my Pianoteq favorites already sound better, more dialed
to my preference :)
Glad it's helping you!
Nice explanations. One thing I've always struggled with was the perceived brightness of the upper and lower ranges of the model (Steinway D) and I've invested considerable time in tampering with the spectrum profile in the note edit section of the pro version with limited success. Your video made me aware of the fact that I should probably explore the the settings of the hammer hardness a bit more.
Yeah I would always start with hammer hardness and the velocity curve of your keyboard first, since it's a lot faster. I'm not sure if the pro version allows for voicing certain notes octaves differently, but that's how it would be done on a real piano. You may want more aggressive bass notes and softer treble, for example.
@@NickLeonardgreat video! The pro version does indeed let you tweak 30 parameters per-note, including hammer hardness at piano/mezzo/forte.
Very very informative video, Nick. Thank you brother. Regards from Milan, Italy.
Thanks! If you ever get a chance to play a Fazioli, they're amazing!
@@NickLeonard yeah Nick, they really are, although I never got a chance to play one but only listen to it live. Anyway, I really appreciate your videos on here, and your knowledge as a piano tuner. I own a digital piano Yamaha P-515 which I really like but I'm finding hard to find a proper velocity curve with Pianoteq as the P-515 has a very heavy keyboard and it's really hard to get to make it play loud unless you use a sledgehammer, which is something I'm not crazy for about this DP. Where in the US are you, buddy? If you ever come overseas let me know, I'll buy a real Italian pizza and I'll ask you to help me figure out a velocity curve for my piano ;-)
@@MaxRiley I've played 2 Faziolis and they're fantastic, though I think a bit better for jazz or pop than classical.
Have you tried the keyboard calibration wizard? That's a good place to start, but you can tweak it from there. I've played around a lot with the velocity curves, but it's hard to nail it for me too. You can easily make it get to Forte faster, but getting it to respond exactly like an acoustic piano is tough, especially when no digital piano feels quite the same as a real piano.
I also do love neapolitan pizza and learn from Italian chefs online for my own dough at home. I'm in MD on the east coast. Never been to Italy, but hopefully I'll make it there one day!
hi thx a lot , i am a piano user but had no clue of how it works and with pianoteq and its many settings i am lost
it will help for sure.
thing I do is as you said I like to have my piano a bit detuned lol i don''t like the perfect sound i like my piano to sound a bit as if had been left in an big manor or whatever lol and I play on it...
Excellent stuff here…..also quite a testament to the incredible software that Pianoteq is..
Awesome!! Yea the continuous foot pedal midi data drives me crazy. Lol first time I thought something was shorting out.
Yeah, it would be nice in a future update to figure out a way to address that
I learned a ton. Thanks for making this video after the initial series. Well appreciated.
Thanks, Christian!
Hi Nick, would you like to do a video about how "let off" (escapement) works and allowing fast notes and how grand pianos can have it vs upright pianos?
Yes, that's a good idea! Escapement in key to dialing in the response of a piano. Maybe I'll film something about that at work some time.
Very interesting. I now know why all those old pianos I've heard or played (badly I should say) are generally brighter than a well maintained one. The hammers need some work and deteriorated so more highs are let through.
Sounds like Pianoteq is mostly there, but the sustain pedal stuff needs work. It would also be nice to adjust the shape and height of the mic room like you said. I'll probably end up making the piano super dry and treat it with some external verb plugin or IR's later.
Awesome stuf. Off to research Pianoteq more. haha
Cheers and keep up the great vids!
I do think Pianoteq is the best out there. There are some really good sample libraries, and you do get the realism of a real recording, however, sample libraries just can't recreate all the complex interactions of a real piano. Things like sympathetic resonance for example. Of course, it's a lot easier to get a realistic piano library than guitar or solo violin.
The sustain pedal issue is pretty minor, it would be nice to have that addressed, and it probably could be with retrigger settings or some kind of map that tracks damper position and travel, but it's also not a big deal to just turn it down. It's the kind of sound that usually you want minimized through regulation and recording technique anyways.
@@NickLeonard Do you mean Pianoteq doesn't do sympathetic resonance modelling which Yamaha does in their hybrid and digital pianos? (Yamaha call it VRM - Virtual Resonance Modeling).
Also, how well does the Korg D1 / Pianoteq combination capture accentuated touch? (playing softly or strongly)
@@GordonDeMuse it definitely does sympathetic resonance, duplex resonance, and you can control the levels of it all, that's the beauty of modeling!
The D1 also capture touch (velocty) quite well, almost any keyboard does, but the D1 has the flagship action from Korg, so it's very good. I've yet to feel a digital piano that 1:1 identical in feel and performance to an acoustic piano, but I do like the D1 a lot
@@NickLeonard Hi! First of all, thanks for the video, btw since you're already mentioning digital piano action, which one is from your experience the closest to the real piano?
I would like to upgrade my digital piano and to get as close as possible to real piano action, and I'm thinking about Kawai MP7 or MP11. Have you tried them?
Thanks again!
@@fortissimoX I have only played acoustic Kawai's so I can't say, both are expensive, so they should be in their flagship action territory. I don't think a digital will ever feel exactly like an acoustic, but as long as you enjoy playing it and it works for you, it's good!
Good job....thanks!
Interesting video. By the way, pianoteq 8 has been released.
Hi Nick, what amplification and speakers do you use with your Korg D1 / Pianoteq combination? If you are just using what's in the keyboard or PC, what do you suggest using for more realism?
I just use my normal monitors, Kali IN8s, or my ATH M50 headphones. If you want something that sounds like you're playing a piano in real life, probably some high end very neutral headphones and binaural mode is the way to go. Most the time, Pianoteq or a sampler is emulating the sound of a recorded piano
@@NickLeonard What are your normal monitors, Kali IN8s connected to?
@@GordonDeMuse a focusrite scarlett 18i20 interface, you don't need one that big just for midi though
I'm curious, is there a reason piano keys have to be the width that they do? Obviously having a standard width is valuable because it allows pianists to adjust to different pianos more easily, but on the other hand, wouldn't it be valuable to pianists with small hands to have the option to play on an instrument with proportionally narrower keys?
There have been custom instruments made, they're just rare and expensive. There's no real reason a slightly narrower keyboard wouldn't work mechanically, it would just require a redesign of the action and that's very expensive for something with a limited market
The setting for the virtual piano player is still missing, e.g. Bach, Beethoven or Rachmaninow.
😂
I measured the weight of my piano action = from 60g to 80g so i guess it's great
That would be quite heavy for acoustic, but pretty normal for digital pianos, not sure why they're so much higher, but ie tested a few brands and they all come out high. They certainly don't feel as heavy as 60+ would on a grand piano though!
@@NickLeonard why wouldn't it be? 60g is 60g... so the same pressure and then you can adjust the velocity curve with pianoteq for example. At a time i would switch from digital to accoustic didn't feel much difference. It would not be in the touch but vibration from the strings etc
@@NickLeonard but i never played grand pianos though always upright that may be why?
@@yussef961 there's downweight, upweight, friction, and the "curve" of the weight. With digital, I've noticed there is a lot more weight to get started, at the top of the key, but it eases off drastically after that. An acoustic piano is the opposite, it's lightest at the top of the stroke. I think the tools and measurements used on acoustic pianos don't really accurately portray the same thing with digital pianos
@@NickLeonard maybe but it depends on accoustic as well, not sure it makes much difference... between a synth with no weighted keys it does yes but with hammers etc.. (because it can be weighted or with hammer action and mine has small hammers too so i guess it makes a difference as well)
the damper sounds in pianoteq should use different samples, i think they always sound like one sample.
they do, and it's one area that's not great for realism, at least, the damper pedal lift sound itself is the same sound but scales in volume and retriggers at each input, so my analog damper pedal generates many steps when it's moved at all and each triggers the same sound at whatever velocity