start piece treble 00:2901:3004:00 Pianoteq 8 (best and endlessly tweakable sounds) 05:0105:1705:03 Ravenscroft 275 (2nd best, good string resonance, good release, versatile) 06:3707:1006:52 Beathawk Studio Piano (good, sound not tweakable) 08:5509:5709:05 Colossos (good sound, but bad release) 11:42 --------- 13:04 Pure Piano (has character, but no individual string resonance, good release and sustain) 16:4616:5417:07 Korg American D (bad sample transition) 18:1118:1118:20 Korg Ivory (short sustain) 19:30 Steinway D New York Classical (Pianoteq 8, for concert) 21:30 Steinway B Improv (Pianoteq 8, has more character than D) 24:1124:44 Grothian Concert Royal (Pianoteq 8)
Wow! Thanks for this awesome detailed summary! Just one correction to this amazing summary: Pure Piano Does Have a good release! And good duplex resonance. Just doesn't have individual string resonance. Sustain resonance is also very good. Ravenscroft is just a little bit better at everything.
Thank you so much for your demo on all these incredible instruments. I find Pianoteq to be a Magic carpet ride of piano sounds and variations. It is the most versatile ,never ending combination 0f sounds .
I am so glad I found your channel today. Thank you for this amazing review. It has already answered many questions for me. I will now go back and discover your other videos :) Love your playing and the fact that you vary it so much, helps us imagine it in a gig.
Wow, what an exceptional review, Fausto! Your insightful analysis of pianos for iOS is truly remarkable. I greatly appreciate the depth and attention to detail you've put into your assessment. Your expertise shines through, making it an invaluable resource for anyone seeking the perfect piano app. Thank you sincerely for sharing your knowledge and dedication. Keep up the fantastic work!
You are very persuasive in your reviews. You are not trying to please and please the audience, but honestly and professionally reveal the nuances of the sound of the product. Your musical performance is also top notch. Go on. Thank you!
Thank you!! But I am trying to please the audience: being a tech nerd, and a professional pianist at least for the last 30 years, I was missing this kind of geeky analysis. So I did it myself, hoping that it can be informative and entertaining at the same time. Comments like yours show me that I should continue on this path. Again, thank you!!!
Fausto, thank you for the great demonstration. The way you presented those pianos is so natural and understandable, and inspires confidence that the demonstrator actually knows what he is doing. 👏👍
Thanks a lot! I do know a few things about this topic! Not being someone who loves to hear is own voice, and allways have an opinnion, regardless it's a well informed or not, I finally realized I can contribute in a positive away to this debate. Thanks to all your positive reactions, expect more on this subject from me. Coming soon with much more...
A little known feature in Pianoteq is the removal of the lid. This can be done by double clicking the top of the lid and also works on the upright. It gives a brighter and more expansive sound. Also a piano tuner who reviewed Pianoteq said it has too much wet in the reverb mix and reducing it makes the piano come through more. It really does.
Thank you for pointing that out, I will include that in a more detailed review. Excessive reverb seems to be a common thing on most instruments, but we allways have the possibility of changing it. The reverbs on pianoteq are amazing, they really put the instrument in a realistic acoustic environment. If you listen to some classical recordings, they are not too far.
@@hungryformusik Camelot and Cubasis are completely different things. Camelot is used to manage and control multiple Audio units and external gear, mainly for live use. Cubasis is a DAW ( digital audio workstation ), and is used as the centerpiece in the studio, for recording, editing mixing, etc...
First off your playing is amazing. The Price for Pianoteq for 2 pianos is almost 200 dollars vs Ravenscroft 275 is much lower. Thank you for taking the time to show these iOS pianos as I had looked to these to start and ended up with Ravenscoft 275.
Very useful video. Just what I need while trying to decide whether to buy Pianoteq or not. Thank you for your time and trouble in putting this wonderful video together.
Completely agree with Colosuss. I’ve written the developer about this EXACT ISSUE and asked him to update with release samples or at least a release control. He blamed my controllers release velocity. Nope. It’s the programming. Thank you for validating my experience.
Not many controllers send release velocity, even some amazing controllers neglect this. Kawai mp7se has it, and it didn't make any difference! I guess the developer prefers to keep it as an underdeveloped high potential thing, when he could just make it incredible. Or its just a limitation of the platform from Crudebyte, wich also has Heavy Brass, iSymphonic Orquestra, CMP Grand piano, Oriental strings among others. The justification they gave you doesn't make any sense. A simple ADSR envelope, or just AR with help a lot.
I’ve also complained to the developer and he did the same thing by blaming the user. On their upright some of the lower notes are out of tune. A guy pointed this out 6 years ago and he said it was false when clearly a huge issue. I think he knows there are issues but is entirely in denial and very easily offended and deflects from the issues.
Yes, I noticed all of those problems. It's a shame that the developer don't want to take into account the custumer experience, so I did the same as do in a restaurant with bad and desrespectfull service: I just leave. That's why Colossus is not anymore occupying space on my iPad storage!
Thank you for deep dive videos Fausto. At last I found videos/reviews from someone who really understands music (and plays incredible). Most videos you find on youtube are “shallow” since the reviewer/player lacks the classical knowledge from…classical music. Keep the videos coming.
I used to think Pianoteq was a "cheap toy" and not worthy of being placed in the same context as other more popular "high end" VST's. I'm changing my mind. Pianoteq continues to develop and is getting quite good, good enough that there are times when I prefer the sound of Pianoteq to other VST's. Perfect? No. But neither is any other VST I've heard. Thank you for sharing your experience!
Thank you, this is the best iOS piano apps comparison so far ! You will notice a flaw in Ravenscroft when setting the « timbre » parameter to the left (more mellow sound) : the release samples of treble notes (near G#5) are removed and the sound cuts in an unnatural way. Less noticeable with reverb, but still… Otherwise a very good piano for the price. I am almost a bit sad to abandon it for PianoTeq (well… no, let’s rejoice 😀).
Thank you Paulo! You're right. That happens because the timbre knob just shifts and retune the samples up or down. It's a very simple and economical way of changing caracter radically. But by doing that, it messes up the release maps and the undampened strings from the highest octaves. Use it wiselly!
@@FaustoFerreira Thank you Fausto. You really know your stuff... I didn’t want to go into detail at first but that’s exactly the reply I got from UVI’s support when asking. Although I think there was still a workaround for it, simply adding a non null release time to samples impacted by the shift. Anyway, Ravenscroft is still a beautiful piano app for the price. PianoTeq does better but not in the same price league. Cheers.
Thank you for your insight and review of these pianos. It’s amazing that technology replicates a sophisticated instrument to the point that it is a real experience on a tablet computer. I enjoyed your playing too.
Thank you so much for this verry good demonstration. It really show the diverens from the piano apps loud and clear. And you are a verry good pianoplayer!👍👍👍
Glad to have come across this video and your channel. Subscribed! I currently use Ravenscroft275 which I am happy with, but have been considering trying some other options. I am a singer who plays piano only really to accompany my vocal but am enjoying progressing with the instrument.. I think Pianoteq sounds incredible but my ability does not yet justify the price. Although thinking maybe the investment would make me play more.. I have an old Yamaha NP32 at the moment which I am just using with MIDI but am after something with weighted keys. I’ve been thinking of getting a Korg D1 or Kawai ES120 but I’m not sure if I’d be better off with an SL88 + Pianoteq & other auv3s in AUM etc as i’ll be more often than not processing vocals on iPad now, too. Any other recommendations would be very much appreciated.
Thank you! Coming from a NP32 you will find the Korg D1 very stiff, and very limited as a controller. The SL88 is a decent low budget alternative. My preference goes to the Kawai ES120, sweet keys, lighter but well balanced, decent sounds also, and Portable. Or the Numa X 76/88. Very good keys and a more advanced controller, with Effective piano sounds. Of course, Ravenscroft and pianoteq beats them all, even high end stage pianos, including the red ones.
It's a very comprehensive collection, acoustic and electric pianos, but not on the level of Ravenscroft or Pianoteq, but I value the variety. Samples are compressed. For full quality of the same samples, you have to go for Just Piano, the biggest one with almost 4 gb! But you can only have one piano installed at a time. I don't like this aproach. Rav and Pianoteq are still my prefered ones.
What an amazing couple of reviews.. This and the Organs one. You flawlessly showed the sample transition in the Korg Pianos, but I also want to point out that in Korg Pianos, there are some chords that for some reason sound horrible to me, sounds like some keys went to mono or that they are using just a pitch shifted sample and then when you hit that chord then it starts to show some horrible phase problems, C4 was one of those chords. So basically you can hear the Velocity sample shift and the Range Sample Shift. There is also a new inexpensive plugin from GSI that is called Just Piano, is not the best playing solo, but it sits PERFECT in the rock mixes.
Thanks for your comments, and for your contribution to this topic! It’s true, there’s some annoying things going on the Korg pianos! GSI Just Piano, just came out after I released the review. I emailed GSI, and they said Just Piano was like a simplified version of Genuine Sounds vol1, with the same sound engine, which could use just one Multisample sound at a time. However, it’s much more then that. In many Genuine Sounds vol1 sounds, you get a very limited sample set. In Just piano, you have to choose and download just one of them, but then you have the complete sample set: I have now installed Grand CFX with 3.5 GB just for one piano!
Wow, this passed me by surprisingly for iOS as I track new audio pro releases of course - defo going to check this out as Pianoteq has as I physically hear it now been developed to this point where it really does simulate an acoustic piano! Got NumaX GT several months back, using Ravenscroft very nice so interested in this now Fausto 😀🙏🎹🎶💥🍻.
Thanks. I'm preparing a new video about Modeling in general allready available for iOS. Strings, winds, percussion, pianos, etc... Of course I will dig deeply on Pianoteq.
Good morning Fausto, thank you so much ! I ve also have the numa X and want to buy pianotec , i ve the standard pedal ......i want to buy a progressive one or better ask...which one do you use on yours??? ......hope to hear from you or anyone for advice....thanks again and keep playing....!!! 😄👍🏽
Hi. Great video Sir. I'm planning to purchase the pianoteq after watching this, especially the steinway D. Just a question, how heavy is this pack and how much space should be available on my ipad ? Thanks for the answer.
Thank you! It's about... 50 ... Mb?!!! It's MegaBytes, not GigaBytes! Don't worry about that. More important is: in what device are you running it? Processing power is the key here. My underpowered iPad Mini 4 was really struggling with it ( depending on buffer size, I need it low, for low latency, like 5 ms, as anything above 9 ms is allready distracting for me ). The 2018 iPad Pro allready runs it in a Daw with complex arrangements, and my iPad pro M2 just don't even notice it is there! I guess any new iPad Mini, or regular iPad would run it swiftly.
Thanks, it does! I connect the iPad through a single cable, to an USB C hub with PD. Keyboards, audio interface, monitors etc... are allready connected to the Hub, so that when I arrive with my iPad, I just need to connect one cable to have everything connected in the studio, including power for the iPad and everything that's connected to it.
@@FaustoFerreira as so many have said, beautiful improv! could i ask what hub you use? i've been trying to connect my Roland LX17 piano with my iPhone with Pianoteq 8 since it came out without success - Pianoteq won't recognize any input from my piano. Thanks :)
@@FaustoFerreira I agree, the "only" was just put in, because there is a new generation sound engine (Montage). But I would think, the Motif XS/XF engine could be more easily transported to an iOS plattform and would still be a great performers or composers tool. If the app would also feature the Motif sequencer, wow 🙂 What do you think is the reason, that Yamaha didn't do it, yet? - they don't believe in the financial prospects? - too difficult? - they don't want to jeopardise/cannibalise their hw synth sales? And why did Korg come to different conclusions?
@followyourpassion8378 I see Korg as an inovative company, driving music technology forward. Although yamaha have done it in the past, it's for me a more conservative company. That being said, Yamaha is incredible bringing the highest standards in every area, from boat engines to the most exquisite concert pianos. Korg is allready deep in the iOS business, you can have all of the 90's and 2000's Korg synths on your iPad. Yamaha sees the ipad as a secundary device to help manage or control their hardware.
@@FaustoFerreira Thank you very much for this interesting inside. For me and my simple DAW needs, iOS Cubasis (which ironically is Yamaha 🙂) + iOS sound modules have become the solution I use most, though I have Cubase, Kontakt, ... on PC. I just hate switching from mouse/clicking to instrument, when recording.
@@followyourpassion8378 Exactly my feelings about iPad. Many complain about the price of the Apple, keyboard, how big and bulky it makes the iPad, or about the pen. I went iPad only because I just love to use touch screen. And it must be exclusive, with my fingers, or it is a big mess: grab the pen, leave the pen, grab the mouse, leave the mouse, type a few words on the keyboard, manage them on the screen, return to the Midi Keyboard... And many functions you can only access with two or more fingers on the screen, no pen or mouse can do it so easily. For typing long text ( which is rarely) I use an external keyboard, either usb or bluetooth, and it is just fine. People looking for an iPad to use it like they use a MacBook are misliding themselfes: buy a laptop instead. Or have both, for different applications. Me? I only need my iPad Pro for 99% of what I do
Thanks a lot! I'm in the middle of the mess to find a pleasing VST to improve my Yamaha Arius messy bass sound. I've already purchased many but none has been pleasing. I think that my monitor speakers may be of too poor quality and should update them before anything more. Could you please be kind and tell us which speakers you are using on this video. Thanks!
I thought I would go crazy editing all my sounds on Pianoteq, so I ended up buying the full thing! But the presets are so good, that, even with the possibility to edit everything note by note, I allways chose a preset, and play with the "Condition" slider ( almost allways leave it at 0.25 ), and usually reduce reverb. So, You can buy the base pack and still get everything you need, if you're not a tweaker. I like both, but the playability on Pianoteq is better than any other thing I know. Velocity curves and overall responsiveness seams to work perfect, right out of the box with all the controllers you throw at it! Nothing beats modeling for control and expressiveness, except the real thing!
Hi @how-to1675 I wish it could be that simple. My voice was recorded through the audio interface ( Volt 476 )going to the line in from the camera ( Fuji XT5 ). The Audio Units sounds ( my playing ) was a direct Screen Recording with sound, works quite well with decent sound and video specs. Editing and synchronizing ( Screen and audio recording from the iPad plus Audio and video from the camera ) done on Lumafusion, all done in the iPad. Would not trust the internal mics and pre-amps from the ipad or from the câmera for any half serious work.
What kind of studio monitors do you use for this setup? I know sound in this video is probably just direct line out. But wondering what you use when you are just playing.
Thank you! Voice was recorded through Volt 476, directly in camera ( xt5 ). Instruments recorded directly from Apple own screen recording, which also records Audio, with built in mics turned off. Editing done in Lumafusion for iOS.
During the editing in Lumafusion did you improve volume or any other audio parameter? I ask because when I record screen the audio quality is not what we hear in your review.@@FaustoFerreira
@@jeronimojunqueira5431 Lumafusion can use Audio Units. Of course I treat the audio as in any other audio project. But it's strange that you are getting bad sound quality from screen recording. It is VERY important that you disable the ipads mics, and just enable internal recording.
Thanks Paul! It is expensive, but worth it! Around 120€, plus 120, plus 120 ( for the ultimate editing capabilities) Plus the specific models, or you buy the complete pack, around 800€. But the base pack should be fine if you are not an hardcore tweeker. Then build it up with sound packs gradually.
Excellent review and comparison. One of the best videos that I've seen. The way you explain and demonstrate specific performance characteristics and how they fit into context is very helpful. A lot of people will say this or that piano is good or bad, but it's also important to understand what type of piano character and dynamics you need for a particular project. Thanks! P.S. - I wonder if you have tried the Acoustic Grand piano in BeatHawk? I've listened to the demo samples and it sounds pretty good to me.
Thank you very much! Yes I have. Beathawk Grand has the same problem as its Rhodes: they sound very good but not very versatile: they lack in the higher dynamics. They reach to the limit prety fast, but never get to Fortissimo. This is for me reason enough to exclude it from the list. From a producer perspective however, they might work very well in certain contexts.
Great vídeo Fausto. I play with KORG Krome ex88 and Ravenscroft. Do you recommend pro or STd ? All instruments are in 192khz in PRO? About instruments which is your election? Would be It good Stenway D, Petrof & berstein? And more ? Thanks a lot and great explanation
Thanks! That's difficult to answer. I think you are asking now about Pianoteq, not Ravenscroft. I believe that the standard version is good enough for 99.9% of us. I'm an heavy editor, that's why I like the Pro version, with its per note editing capabilities. And to be honnest, I really don't hear any difference between 48khz or 192Khz internal processing. In fact, when I need to export something in 192khz, some clients require that, I just run it through a AD converter, and recorded again as audio at that sample rate. If you do that with an original 48khz file, 192khz or even a real acoustic, the difference for me is 0. As for Piano packs, I think the Steinway D is a must. The rest, trust your hears, you will definitely want another different character piano. Take your time hearing the performances samples in Pianoteq page, they are musically very enjoyable, you will have a good time doing that, and for sure you will end up knowing exactly what you need .
Thanks Fausto. Yes It is about piano Tech. I used colossus and after ravenscroft but Pianoteq is better. About the pack, yes I played a lot with the demo between diferent grand pianos and I believe my election with std will be stenway D, petrof and bechstein for having different colours or tastes. Thanks a lot for your explanation
Piano ios vst developers must understand this: If a piano vst doesn't support half-pedalind then it's not playable for solo play. Pianoteq is the best also for this reason. Others have good samples but without half pedaling, are not playable.
More and more digital pianos, apps and pedals are supporting half pedaling. It needs a sofisticated model, not just a simple decay curve adjustment, because you also change the harmonic content and sympathetic resonances. So in most cases I don't care about that, I prefer not to have it than to have a simplistic aproach to it. I think Pianoteq is the only one qualified to do that in a realistic and meaningfull way.
That's a good question. On my iPad pro 11' I also only get two scenes on a row. On my iPad pro 12.9 I get 3 scenes on a row by default. Don't know if there's a way of changing it, but never felt the need. But now I'm curious. If you find a way of changing it, please let me know. Thanks
Thanks! Love doing it, improvising in every aspect, no script, no pre existing music, just a vague idea of structure. But I have to confess I had a deep knowledge about those pianos, except Pianoteq. Soon I will release a more informed review with wider experience on it.
I’m glad that I found your reviews here, specifically for the Studiologic Numa Piano. I bought their GT 88, because I was pretty sure that I would like the way the keybed plays. Well, I did like the feel of the GT 88’s keybed, however I was disappointed with their grand piano sounds, and didn’t like their three color light selection for getting around the various dials and effects, so I returned it, and got a Nord Piano 5. I like the Nord Piano 5, and I enjoy playing it much more than the Studiologic Numa. The keys seem to easier to play than the Numa GT, and the Acoustic Piano sounds are much better. I like many of the Piano sounds that you have played from these apps, especially the Pianoteq. Putting aside any of the extra time it takes to set up the IPad and midi channels, would you prefer using one of the Pianoteq pianos, for playing a live gig, or recording, compared to using any of the Piano sounds available within the Nord Stage 3, or Electro/Piano 4 or 5 ? Thanks for your excellent reviews, and of course your playing is another source to learn from just by listening to.
Thanks for your motivating words! I use a Nord Stage 3 Compact, I play better piano on semi-weighted keys than Hammond on fully weighted keys. Was never a fan of Fatar weighted keys on Nords, check Why on my Numa X 88 review. As for the sounds, Nord is still unbeatable, on hardware devices. String resonances, and especially release samples are super well implemented and realistic. The release samples on the electric pianos is for me the reason for their success, even if nobody realizes that. Not the case of Numa. However, if it is a piano centerd gig, I prefer the Numa, with either Ravenscroft or Pianoteq. Connecting it is straightforword: one cable. No setup time, the software imediatly recognices the Numa, and thats it. Unless you are using a more complex setup, with more instruments. Even so, if preciously prepared, theres nothing to worry about on stage. I've been using the iPad on stage since ten years now, on some important concerts. Zero surprises untill now. So I use one or the other, or both, depending on the type of gig. For recording, defenitely Software, its just easier to setup and edit performance and sound on post.Ravenscroft and Pianoteq are also a step above the Nord pianos.
@@FaustoFerreira Hello Fausto, I appreciate your response. It’s interesting to hear that you have included the Ipad as part of your performance gear so often. I have had the apps for Ravenscroft 275, and the B3X for just a few months. The IPad that I have is just an IPad 9, with the A13 Bionic chip, not the Pro, with the M2. (Now that I realize the difference, I might eventually get the Pro version) I’ve played the B3X through my Roland Keyboard amplifier, only a few times, at fairly low volume. I know that the IPad 9 is not expected to perform as well, or reliably as the IPad Pro, with the M2 chip, and 2x more core. Hopefully I will at least get to try it out at one of the Blues Jams that I go to. If the IPad 9 doesn’t work, I have a couple of different 5-pin midi sound modules I can use for Organ, when I take my Nord Piano 5 to play in a band situation. If you are thinking of making more demonstration type videos, maybe you could think about doing a demo video about the B3X Organ app. I think that there are still many players who have not heard about it, and I would think that many of us who do know about the amazing B3X app could probably learn something new by observing your playing it, and showing some of the many things it does. I play Piano mainly, and I played Piano for so many years without seriously thinking of playing Organ, when I finally got curious about playing Organ, I was not aware of how differently it needs to be approached, and how many different techniques are used for playing Organ, to get the kinds of sounds that we hear from many good Organ players. Thanks Fausto !
You must have special powers! Thats exactly my next review! All Hammond clones for iOS, against... the new original, Hammond XK5, and also Nord Stage 3. With tipps and edits. Just waiting for my main camera to return from the repair shop. As for the iPad, I think you shouldn't worry. I use the M2 for producing, but still use the 2018 iPad pro ( 6GB of ram, because its the 1Tera version, with an A12x ) for stage use. Since five years going with me everywhere, everyday! Still runs like new! Before that, I used the first generation of iPad Pro, without any problems, just not capable for production, but still good enough to have three or four instruments ready in a setup. Befora that, used an iPad Mini 4, good enough. Before that a mini 3 and before that a mini 2. For the Stage the mini 5 is super paractical, and runs everything we need. If you need the best, get the ProM2. I have the 16GB version, very capable for production, but you would be fine with 8GB for the stage.
@@FaustoFerreira Good to hear about your plans for a review of Organ apps! I appreciate that you mentioned how you were still able to get good playing results with your earlier versions of smaller IPads. I got a pretty good deal on my 9th Gen IPad, it has 64gb general memory, and 3 GB SDDR RAM. It’s been working well with the B3X, and Ravenscroft, also ‘Neo-Soul keys’ Electric Pianos sound very good. I don’t want to play them through my amp at performance volumes, since I have things set up in a room with windows too close to the house next door, so I have to wait until I’m at a jam situation, where I can really turn the sound up in my amp, and then finally hear if the sound quality is still solid at higher volumes. If you haven’t seen the Studiologic ‘Mixface’ device, it’s worth checking out. It’s a small MIDI device that has 8 or 9 drawbars, to be able to control some of the Organ App drawbars without using the touchscreen. Korg makes a similar device, I haven’t had a chance to try them, partly because I’m still thinking of getting a Yamaha YC 88. Thanks Fausto !
I own a Kawai MP11SE which has two excellent sampled pianos. One is the Kawai EX Concert Grand, which was the default sound of the MP11, and one is the Kawai Shigeru SX Concert Grand, which has an outstanding, mellow sound that I love so much. The wooden keybed is also great. I would love to hear your opinion about those, if you ever get a chance to play them. For the road I just bought the Ravenscroft 275 that I play on my Sudiologic Numa Compact 2x (7 kg) and I am very happy with it. My skill level isn't as high as yours and there is no justification for Pianoteq, at least for the time being.
I love them. I played a few gigs on the MP11SE and had a MP7Se myself, a lot of gigs with that one. Keys are good on both keyboards, but the keys on MP11 Se are simply on another level. Maybe the best on a “portable keyboard” ( if you can call a 36 kgs piano portable). Piano samples are the same. EX pianos are very good, but the SX are clearly a step above, with more and longer sample layers. But they are diferent in character, so you might want to use both, on diferent situations. But they are not studio quality: they still have short samples ( 1or 2 seconds on the EX and 3 or 5 on the SX samples, not a scientifical analysis, but shouldn’t be a very far guess), few sample layers ( guessing from 3 to 5 ), short loops after the sample ( very obvious when they come up, any single note sustained for more than 2 or three seconds makes this annoyingly obvious) , no real release samples, just an effect, uses too much filtering and filter resonance to compensate its shortcomings. It has good sympathetic resonance, sustain resonance, duplex resonance, and in the end it’s very effective, expressive and beautiful ( subjective )for solo playing. Needs a lot of work ( editing ) to make it work for live playing. Couldn’t use other sustain pedals than its own Kawai pedal, that’s a little bit scary, in case something goes wrong with it, or you forget it at home. Fortunately on the MP7Se the synth arquitecture is almost all available on board to edit the sounds. Mp7se also have a lot of very useful additional sounds, including synths, orquestrall sounds and a very realistic Hammond clone but with bad C/V simulation ( use the simple Leslie instead ). Also has very good effects section. MP7Se is also a much better controller, although nothing can beat the keys on MP11Se. Ravenscroft is already studio quality , with no such shortcomings. But limited to a specific and very precisely tuned concert piano, not what you want to use as a character piano. Pianoteq has it all. No shortcomings, infinite possibilities. Except for the price.
Thank you very much, for this detailed analysis. It‘s great to have such an expert around us. I probably will never ever sell my MP11SE, and I‘m glad to hear that you liked it, too. Another sound that’s comparable to the Shigeru seems to be the Bösendorfer on the Yamaha P515. I have played it once in a music shop. By the way, I sold the Kawai triple pedal because it is so hard to press down. I‘m using a another one which I connect to the Foot Switch entry (and setting this to controller 64).
@@hungryformusikMP7SE had bugs not talked about: when connected to a Daw, when playing the recording the release would change dramatically, and the sustain effect also. That's why I stoped trying to work MIDI tracks with its internal sound. There where also something about using another foot switch entry with CC64, I don't have it with me now, but I think it was also the release and symp/resonance also. Check that on MP11Se. This and other small bugs don't make sense, shouldn't be there but they are. And never talked about because...well...the way most people use those instruments: the only button they touch is the on/off, volume the only slider.
Welcome! If you want to get more serious about piano get Ravenscroft, or Pure piano, or even Pianoteq ( more expensive ). Of course you need a decent Midi controller.
Paid apps or not, piano teq sounds amazing and your great playing helped sell it for me. Nice character and detail. Is still cheaper than desktop or laptop apps.
I started with the Steinways, and Grotrian. But that's really personall, take your time listening the excelent examples in the site, and demoing the limited free versions ( time limitations, some mute notes, but enough to try them ). And... let's not call them samples, because there are none, let's call them Models.😉
IOS iPad versus computer (MacBook Pro)? Any thoughts on reliability, etc? I have both (no PT 8 yet, getting the update, just found out a few days ago it happened!). I'm trying to NOT buy a Nord....
I like the workflow on iPad. I like that it's allways reliable. I like the touchscreen aproach. I like the simplicity of iOS ( well, iPadOs ). I like the power of recent iPad pros and how efficient they are today. I like that there are a lot of specific iPad Apps that are so good, so different and so affordable, especially synths and effects. I like the portability and usability ( opening an MacBook pro just increases its size exponencially ). For live playing, still using the 2018 ipad Pro, never failed once ( one or two fails on sound checks, due to cheap accessories and cables, lesson learned ). Forgot to mention in the video, USB cable orientation metters! ( I have the correct orientation marked on all the cables ). If you are used to Macbook, continue, they can be more powerfull, depending on what you need and how much you want to spend. I started fresh with iPads, with iPad II back in 2012. So my system is now fully iPad based, so I'm biased 😁. This new Pro's now, with 16Gb ram and 1T storage are very capable. My M2 is the centerpiece of the studio. And I also use a Nord😉 They just work, specially for covers and specific artists requests for live playing, I can allways find a way to make it work. But when I need endless criative power, especially for synths, or amazing pianos ( with pianoteq, Ravenscroft, etc..), or amazing Hammonds ( VB3m, VB3 II, Hammond B3X ), I use the iPad. The Nord stays in the bag when not in use for rehearsells or small gigs. The iPad is used daily in the studio and major gigs ( even if I use the Nord as a controller onstage sometimes ). Now, seting up this iPadOs system from scratch these days will not come easy or cheap. If you allready have good software for Mac maybe you should just stick with it. If you are starting from scratch, on either system, don't be afraid of investing in iOS. It is growing, now very powerfull allready.
@@FaustoFerreira I have two iPads, an older 12.9 Pro and a newer mini, both with lightening. Right now I'm cursing my MacBookPro and Apple for not putting a damn power cord on the thing thus requiring dongles, which are not working. I need reliability, and Nord will offer that. I don't want to spend any more money on this until I know something works or not. No new iPad, mine should be fine. I think the ;power thing is huge though. Can't run out!
@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton Power was never an issue for me. I have two sets of Pd Hubs+power supply, I can run these for hours holding 100% battery all the time, even with lightening, with the USB 3 adaptor which lets you charge while conecting to usb devices, and hubs. The Nord offers reliabilitty, thats for sure, and its efficient. I go that route many times also, specially at festivals, where you do soundcheck, and then take your things again, and at night you have to redo everything. Just be aware that they have very sensitive fuses, I know many people with dead Nords onstage. Easy fixable, but not on site, and can ruin a show.
Wow abut those Nord fuses! Thanks for letting me know that! I tried the Nord Electro 6D yesterday - the keybed was "meh." I like my Numa Compact's Fatar TP9 much better. I'm trying NOT to buy a Nord - I can use the money for a new alto saxophone (my main axe is tenor) That's about half the funds needed. Or a Telecaster guitar (custom, for my big hands). Regarding power, I mean my MacBookPro - the hub isn't giving it power and the battery ran down. If I use one of the two C ports for power, that leaves only one left, and the Numa wants it's own port as well. So I'm shy one port! Is the iPad output 1/8" actually enough to plug into a PA system? @@FaustoFerreira
@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton 1/8 is an headphone output. It works, but better to use a proper audio interface. Although the 10€ dongle ( the headphone adaptor ) soumds better than most cheap audio interfaces...why does Numa require its own port? Use one port for charging and the other for connecting a non powered Hub.
I see on your video just a cable from your ipad. how you play midi and audio in same time? i have ipad air 5 and i have not good solutions for play without noise with any adaptor. what you use?
I use a USB Hub with PD ( Power delivery, charging iPad and powering all the other things ). Everything is allways conected. I just need to connect one cable when I arrive to the studio with my iPad. Make sure your cables handle 60w or more, 5gb/s or more. dont ever use cheap USB cables and check these specs. With older iPads with lightening, you have to use Lightening to USB3 Camera adapter, which as allready a charging port. Then you connect your hubs. The same good quality cables rule apply here. Older iPads have an OK inbuilt 3.5 headphones socket, for Stereo audio out and mono in ( never used it for audio in ). Use a good audio interface, or if you just need stereo audio out, use Apple's own dongle, rhe headphones adapter. This is the only thing Apple sells that is not overpriced: for 10€ you get an extremelly good, low noise high resolution audio output, beating much more expensive professional audio interfaces.
Pure synth has some grands and uprights that I prefer over Ravenscroft and painoteq. The best grand they have is buried deep in their library but well worth the dig. It’s called rich grand. Take the reverb off and eq it a tad also tweak the mechanics and it sounds phenomenal.
I know Gospel Musicians. They are good at electric pianos, Neo soul Keys. I have also Pure Synth and all the packs. But in all honesty, couldn't consider them for this comparisson. I explain you Why. 1: Velocity transitions are obvious, with abrupt changes of timbre, just do the one note test from pp to ff. 2: they implemented release samples, but completely wrong, should be envelope dependent, but they are allways the same, no matter if you just striked the key or if the sound is allready gone 3: they don't know that the last octave and a half of a piano is damper free ( slight variations between instruments, some start in F, others in G. This is unforgiveble, only seen in bad synths from the 90's. 4: lack of any kind of ressonance ( single note, sustain pedal, or duplex resonance ) 5: very short samples, in some cases they even stop abuptly 6: The upright samples use an old sampling technique, recording every note allways with the pedal down, wich have a completely diferent sound than the pure note without pedal ( try playng a single note and holding it in the last octave, without pedal, and than do this in Ravenscroft, or pianoteq, or any of the others mentioned in the review, you will understand. And there's much more serious errors, wich a discerning pianist cannot tolerate. They Know about Electric pianos, they are some of the best around. But they don't know anything about Acoustic pianos. Now, if someone likes something, thats a completely subjective affair, I love my old Casio, and my Fiat 127. Objectively and analitically, those pianos are not worthy of consideration for proper piano playing. Play some hammer major chords on a pop song with the pedal down though, and they might sound awsome!
@@FaustoFerreira Wow, thank you for your response. I appreciate your insight and I will do the comparisons you recommend. So far I am in love with the guitars on pianoteq, but had not been aware just how much went into the piano sounds. I will definitely give it another listen. I did not appreciate the quality when I first download pianoteq. I did notice I would hear Pro’s play it, and I could really hear the dynamics. I’m not a real pianist more so a producer, so I understand your perspective. Thanks again.
Thanks for this fantastic review and comparison. I completely agree with you on your analysis and I like that you point out that it also can depend on the situation which one is suitable (or at can also work...). I would be interested in which one you would choose for a band setting on stage where you want a good sounding grand piano which does not get lost in the mix.
I've used Ravenscroft extensively in live contexts, with Funk, blues, Soul, Pop, Jazz bands etc... I allways found a way of cutting through the band. The editing is very limited compared to the PC version, or to Piqnoteq, but enough to get there. Use the timbre knob ( it just offsets samples, but with great impact on the overall perception of caracter ). Did it a lot on Triple Strike piano from Kurzweil PC3. Even today they would sound amazing compared to new tecnology, with some heavy use of all the VAST possibilities. Use the internal EQ. Three fixed frequencies but exactly the right ones! I still need more time to evaluate Pianoteq on a live context, but I predict it will be my Go To piano from now on. The good thing with a modeled instrument is that you can allways get where you want ( depending you know exactly what you want :) ) As said before, I consider all the others for specific situations, but for versatility purposes ( leave it on from the beggining to the end of the show, and to the next show) those two are the only ones I can recomend. Some people reported strange behavers with Ravenscroft but I never had any problem. In any case, allways work the velocity curves, both in your keyboard and in the app, it can transform completely the interaction with the instrument, and ultimately the sound you get from the instrument.
Never experienced that. Check out the Audio Buffer: above a certain point ( 512 ) we start perceiving latency as softness while we are playing, before we start perceiving it as latency ( above 1024 ). Some people are more sensitive to it then others. Sweet spot for me is 256 ( 5.1 ms ), as it doesnt stress the machine and is still acceptable for fluid playing. Check the volumes: Camelot has volume control on the layer itself, and on the mixer section, plus the volume on Racenscroft. Slight differences in volume also changes our perception. Turn off equalizer and compression on Camelot mixer section. Last but not least, make sure you have the same settings/preset on both situations!
@@FaustoFerreira I just bought Ravenscroft. Sounds great for the piano I need for ios. Couldn't really justify the price of pianoteq 8 for ios, even with its cross platform and I already own keyscape. Thanks for this video!
Ravenscroft is sampled from a 300000€ concert grand, tuned exactly for that. Us, normal mortals, not classical concert pianists who play in major auditoriums, we are not used to that. So our reference is the Hotel, concert pubs, or even good auditoriums with good but allready old pianos ( for major auditoriuns criteria ), and tuned by local tuners, with specific situations in mind, with budget and time concerns, and sometimes pure negligence. I've had such rare opportunities to play in such pristine instruments, and, if it wasn't for the imponent size and sound coming from them, I would also consider them sterile. Ravenscroft 275 reminds me those giant Yamaha, Steinway or Bosendorfer, character wise not a Bosendorfer for sure, sitting more or less in the middle between Steinway and Yamaha. I've recently got deep into photography, and it's very interesting that many people also describe the expensive, big, perfect in every criteria lenses, as sterile and lifeless. I think there's a purpose for all of them, depending on your actual needs and the aestetics of the work you are doing.
Do you have a view on what is best for classical ? I think ravenscroft sounds almost like a synthesised e keyboard . It's great for jazz but it doesn't sound like a real piano. But I also found most of pianos in Do you have a view on what is best for classical ? I think ravenscroft sounds almost like a synthesised e keyboard . It's great for jazz but it doesn't sound like a real piano. But I also found pianoteq sound leas like a piano than the internal sound on my 15 year old Yamaha digital grand ?
I wonder why would you come to that conclusion. By playing them? If so, make sure you are using a proper 88 keys keyboard, with a correct velocity curve, from the leyboard part and a matching curve from the app part. From what source are you listening them? Good speakers, good headphones? Try to be more specific when you say things like "...sounds almost like a synthesised e keyboaed...", or "...sound less like a piano than the internal sound on my 15 year old yamaha digital grand?...". If you've seen my videos, you know my opinion about those instruments. Everybody's opinions are valid, except if you are just throwing a flamed opinion against something without proper arguments. My opinions are clear in the video, backed up by as many arguments as I could possibly find, based on long term analysys, and experience from both acoustic and digital pianos.
Thanks for making this! Very well done. Did you consider including the Numa Player app (since you're using their keyboard), or is it not anywhere near the quality of the others?
There are a lot off apps or samples that deserve an honourable mention, but didnt consider for this review: Genuine Sounds Piano edition ( severall diferent samples ), Numa Piano App, other Big samples inside of Colossus, Retro Piano, sound fonts on bs-16i, iSymphonic Keys Pack, iGrand, all the pianos on Sampletank, Lyra sampler etc... Have them all, and used them all, on stage and studio. Just think they might be usefull for some specific tasks, but for realistic piano experience, sound and playability, those reviewed here are still the only ones to consider. Even the M1 piano can be good... in the right context! But never a realistic piano experience
Hello, thank you for this demo, question: Ravenscroft sudden starts to chop off the sound sometimes it doesn’t wich makes it unusable, tried every setting , even reinstalled it and have a decent iPad Pro and no problem with other piano’s, could you give me a clue what is going on with it, does the same sound chopping/stopping in standalone or Cubasis, please help, thanks in advance
I've been using Ravenscroft since 2018 ipad pro 6gb ram . Then with ipad pro M2, 16 Gb ram. Used it standalone, in AudioBus, Aum, Auria Pro, never any problem. Allways using it at Audio buffer size 256 samples ( 5.3 ms latency ). Never had any problem, and believe me, I'm super picky! I've heard about other people complaining about that and other problems, but I never had that, even in very complex projects. As shown in my video, I have all the pianos opened at the same time ( as AUV3 in Camelot ) and zero problems! Sorry I cannot help you further, but did you check the quality of your USB cables? I had a problem similar to that you are describing, but I realized it was the cable from iPad to audio interface, it didn't handle the audio so well, shoping the sound. But it was happening with everything in general, not just Ravenscroft. Advice for good paractice while playing/ producing music: shut down every app you dont need for your work flow; turn on flight mode; shut down everything that might compete with the audio processing ( youtube, web browser, internal video or audio files; if you use a hub, connect only one audio interface, or dongle, never both; in older ipads, where you still have 3.5 headphone Jack, either use that, or your audio interface, never both. Hope I could help. Keep me informed
Also check out Hardware Latency on Cubasis itself, if the project gets too complex, you might have to trade latency for more stability. Cubasis 2 is still more reliable, although Cubasis 3 is much more powerfull
@@FaustoFerreira thanks for taking time and the quick reply, no problems with other plugins, just bought the piano in BeatHawk and guess what…exact same problem…same company as Ravenscroftí, no headphone conn. So use a hub., but I will try all your suggestions and will report back, have to ask you on more question, I played for a while the studiologic keyboard but the touch is too heavy for me, do you know of a keyboard with a lighter touch, or is it ‘one size fits all’ ?,played on a acoustic baby grand wich had the perfect weighted keys for me , thanks again much appreciated,Chris
Numa x piano uses the new TP110 from Fatar, very diferent from The previous TP100, wich I also hated! Its never only the wheight, its so personal that I have to give you bad knews: you have to try it for yourself! If you want semi wheighted, versatile and more robust then you might think, the M-Audio Keystation 88 is incredible, for the price and for the wheight. Also nice to play Hammond and synths on that keybed
app store has suddenly stopped accepting my payment method. It is a mastercard but not a credit card which must be why. Means cards like debut cards will not send the amount for subsctpion each month unless there is enough in that acc to pay it. So it makes sense but if a person already has a subscription means they cannot maintain use of it. Like you start something but iOS blocks you from keeping up the lessons or blocks you from using that app you already downloaded and payed the initial amount for the subscription. It is not good.
I installed Piano Tech with reference to this video. I am very happy about that! Thank you for your introduction. By the way, what is the app on the top left? I want to use it !!
Glad I can help! The app is Camelot Pro . It works with AUV3 instruments and effects, and external devices, with extensive MIDI and audio routings possibilities. And with a touch of the screen, uou can switch to a diferent setup or scene. Very powerful stuff!
@@FaustoFerreira hi … I also have the gadgets you use. 2 iPad pros… Volt 276, cubasis 3 and a Roland for midi. Please tell me how you record from Camelot pro to cubasis 3
@paulkishan Hello Paul. That's a very good question! I don't know why you would want to do that. Maybe to use a fine tuned layer/split/effect routing on Camelot, without the need to redo it on Cubasis? To change sounds on a performance recording? I never needed or wanted to do that, and if so, you can also do it directly in Cubasis. But I tried to do it to answer you, and I don't think it's possible: Camelot is a Audio Units host, but its not a Audio Unit itself; its not AudioBus or even InterApp audio compatible, so not even AudioBus or AUM can do it. The way I'm recording my videos, I use the internal iPAD screen recording with internal sound ( disable the internal mics for that ) , and record the voice microfone in another ipad on cubase, or to the camera directly. Ducking and audio processing, mixing, synchronising and editing is done in post, using Cabasis and LumaFusion ( Video and audio ). With two iPads, you can allways use one with Camelot as a sound module, and record it as audio from the audio interface to Cubasis 3 on the other iPad. But it is sure a very interesting limitation from Camelot, which I was not aware, because I never needed or wanted to do that. If you find a way, please let me know, now I'm curious.
@@FernandoGonzalez-dh6qr Fernando, thanks for the message, hope you enjoy the review. We went a little bit off-topic here, my fault also :) Will be glad to further share with you my thoughts about pianos!
Of course you do. But... not available for iPadOS. My iPad Pro M2, 16 gb ram, 1TB storage, more than outperforms the minimum system requirements for keyscape instalation. Well, lets wait...
What are your favorite iPad apps for Rhodes and Wurlitzer electric pianos? Pianoteq, Neo-Soul Keys, Tines, Module Pro (EP-88M & Wurly), or something else?
I will reveal that on my next review: iOS EPs. Something else could also be GSI Genuine Sounds, BeatHawk's Electric piano, Acoustic Sample's VTines Live, Apesoft's Electric, iLectric ( yes, still relevant ), Neo-SoulKeys Studio AND the original NeoSoulKeys ( yes, still relevant ), Numa Player, and many EP samples in Colossus Piano.
I'm glad that you you want that! I was waiting for new stuff to come out, and to have the chance to spend some time with it. Expect it beginning of next week. It will be a long long video...
You are an awesome piano player. I agree with everything what you said. My favorite is also the ravenscroft. I wish the Ivory had the velocity or the app engine as the ravenscroft. I rather the piano tone on the Ivory but velocity touch are terrible. Sometimes you cant hear some notes when i am playing fast scales. I think due the lack of polyphony. I also own the studiologic but is the GT version. 😅😅
Thank you! Are you enjoying the GT? ( action wise ).I didnt test it properly, and don't have access to one right now, but my short experience was very positive. And Yeah, velocity curves and playability are sometimes more important than the timbre itself.
@@FaustoFerreira Yes I love the action of the GT. I also own the CP88 and I had played with many other brands like the nord stage 3. Wich feels kinda cheap to be honest. Feels like playing the Native Instruments komplete s88. I also played with the Roland Rd2000. The Roland has a very good key action but feels very heavy. I had played few Steinway pianos and the Numa GT keyboard feels close to that. It is my favorite so far due the design, portability and the premium key action. I was going to get the kawai Mp11se but looks like it is way to bulky and heavy. Also I will be selling the Yamaha CP88. I use my Nord electro most of the time when I play with my band.
I don't think these little differences in nuances matter much in the real world. Not in a live situation anyway, but also not in most recording scenarios, given that most times the piano is just part of a bigger arrangement and mix. All of these pianos sound great.
It's not a matter of opinion. Release samples, duplex resonance and sustain pedal resonance are not nuances. They absolutely shape the internal acoustics of the real instrument. And they are very noticeable. When they are well simulated, they really make a big change. Baddly implemented sample transitions and velocity curves can make an instrument not usable for me. Pedal noises and string resonances are in fact less noticeable, but when done properly they also add up to the final result. And there are two different analisys perspectives: one from the listeners ( or producers, who tend to put themselfs in the listeners position ), and from the real pianists ( you know, those who studied and practiced all their lifes on real instruments, even if they also need or want to use electronic instruments ). For those the " nice sound" is not enough: the interaction with the instrument is much more important, and all those "nuances" can make the difference between a satisfying experince or a painfull one.
Nothing beats pianoteq ! But then nothing beats a real recording :p especially on the attack of the sound. Samples are still way WAY superior to pianoteq for that. all cinematiq unacorda where you want texture... virtual instruments are just not there at all. My $1k5 piano is better :'D I understand pianotq is about virtual.. but I would love they would add some samples for the first ms of the sounds..
Agree about sample/modeling/real thing. But mixing a small attack sample with modeling for the decay it would defeat the purpose of modelling: samples are allways static, so the decay part would allways be dependent of that, risking being noticeable diferent and artificial, limiting the full editing power that is its main strength. Modeling works briliantly better for playability, but still as room to improve. And I think it will still improve as processing power continues to improve, allowing a more complex model. And sample based instruments will still improve as Ram and storage speed/amount improves. I remind you that most quality instruments today are hybrids, using samples for the notes and modeling for all resonances and noises, wich would be impossible to record due to the milion of possible combinations. Take Roland RD1000 with their Structure/adaptive Synthesis: it was wonderfull to play, expressive dynamic to play, but it didn't sound like a piano. V Piano? much better, but Moddart was allready in the lead. First generations of Pianoteq? We are miles away from that allready. I believe it will continue to improve untill its indistinguishable from samples. And take Yamaha DX7 with their electric pianos! Did they sound like a real Rhodes, the sound they where trying to emulate? No, but they where, again, most superior to any sample based instrument for playabilty and expression, that's why they became popular in the 80's and a classic today, badly represented nowadays from... you guessed it, sample based instruments! And if you check many jigh quality Rhodes sounds today, many are allready fully modeled, surpassing in average most sample based Rhodes. The same is happening to strings (Swam Audio), winds, brass, plucked, drums, etc... Modeled is the way to go, but I agree, still not there yet!
start piece treble
00:29 01:30 04:00 Pianoteq 8 (best and endlessly tweakable sounds)
05:01 05:17 05:03 Ravenscroft 275 (2nd best, good string resonance, good release, versatile)
06:37 07:10 06:52 Beathawk Studio Piano (good, sound not tweakable)
08:55 09:57 09:05 Colossos (good sound, but bad release)
11:42 --------- 13:04 Pure Piano (has character, but no individual string resonance, good release and sustain)
16:46 16:54 17:07 Korg American D (bad sample transition)
18:11 18:11 18:20 Korg Ivory (short sustain)
19:30 Steinway D New York Classical (Pianoteq 8, for concert)
21:30 Steinway B Improv (Pianoteq 8, has more character than D)
24:11 24:44 Grothian Concert Royal (Pianoteq 8)
Wow! Thanks for this awesome detailed summary!
Just one correction to this amazing summary: Pure Piano Does Have a good release! And good duplex resonance. Just doesn't have individual string resonance. Sustain resonance is also very good. Ravenscroft is just a little bit better at everything.
@@FaustoFerreira I've done the correction
Thank you so much for your demo on all these incredible instruments.
I find Pianoteq to be a Magic carpet ride of piano sounds and variations. It is the most versatile ,never ending combination 0f sounds .
Thank you! Love the Poetry! 😁
I am so glad I found your channel today. Thank you for this amazing review. It has already answered many questions for me. I will now go back and discover your other videos :) Love your playing and the fact that you vary it so much, helps us imagine it in a gig.
Thank you! Glad I could help.
Wow, what an exceptional review, Fausto! Your insightful analysis of pianos for iOS is truly remarkable. I greatly appreciate the depth and attention to detail you've put into your assessment. Your expertise shines through, making it an invaluable resource for anyone seeking the perfect piano app. Thank you sincerely for sharing your knowledge and dedication. Keep up the fantastic work!
Thank you Paulo! It's amazing being able to share my experience and knowledge with those who value and benefit from it !
This is one of the best reviews with excellent playing added Thank you for this!
Thank you for watching! Hope I could help.
What a pleasure listening to you play so effortlessly. Thank you!
Thank you! But it's not me... a good instrument almost plays itself...😉
You are very persuasive in your reviews. You are not trying to please and please the audience, but honestly and professionally reveal the nuances of the sound of the product. Your musical performance is also top notch. Go on. Thank you!
Thank you!! But I am trying to please the audience: being a tech nerd, and a professional pianist at least for the last 30 years, I was missing this kind of geeky analysis. So I did it myself, hoping that it can be informative and entertaining at the same time. Comments like yours show me that I should continue on this path. Again, thank you!!!
Fausto, thank you for the great demonstration. The way you presented those pianos is so natural and understandable, and inspires confidence that the demonstrator actually knows what he is doing. 👏👍
Thanks a lot! I do know a few things about this topic! Not being someone who loves to hear is own voice, and allways have an opinnion, regardless it's a well informed or not, I finally realized I can contribute in a positive away to this debate. Thanks to all your positive reactions, expect more on this subject from me. Coming soon with much more...
@@FaustoFerreira Well, you got another subscriber. 😎
Thanks for this great help! "We want the best", you gave us.
Thank you Alex!
A little known feature in Pianoteq is the removal of the lid. This can be done by double clicking the top of the lid and also works on the upright. It gives a brighter and more expansive sound. Also a piano tuner who reviewed Pianoteq said it has too much wet in the reverb mix and reducing it makes the piano come through more. It really does.
Thank you for pointing that out, I will include that in a more detailed review. Excessive reverb seems to be a common thing on most instruments, but we allways have the possibility of changing it. The reverbs on pianoteq are amazing, they really put the instrument in a realistic acoustic environment. If you listen to some classical recordings, they are not too far.
One of the best reviews on this matter I have ever seen. Thank you so much, Fausto.
Thank you for watching!
@@FaustoFerreira Just one question: Why are you using Cubasis 3 besides Camelot Pro? Is there a feature in Cubasis 3 the Camelot Pro cannot do?
@@hungryformusik Camelot and Cubasis are completely different things. Camelot is used to manage and control multiple Audio units and external gear, mainly for live use. Cubasis is a DAW ( digital audio workstation ), and is used as the centerpiece in the studio, for recording, editing mixing, etc...
Pianoteq is amazing and the piano player doing the demo is very amazing as well!!
Thanks very much! I agree with you about Pianoteq!
First off your playing is amazing. The Price for Pianoteq for 2 pianos is almost 200 dollars vs Ravenscroft 275 is much lower. Thank you for taking the time to show these iOS pianos as I had looked to these to start and ended up with Ravenscoft 275.
Thank you! Glad I could help
That piano sounds really good. Nice "chops" as well!
Yes it does! And it gives me some extra "chops" 😉
Very useful video. Just what I need while trying to decide whether to buy Pianoteq or not. Thank you for your time and trouble in putting this wonderful video together.
Thank you Paul! Glad I could help.
Completely agree with Colosuss. I’ve written the developer about this EXACT ISSUE and asked him to update with release samples or at least a release control. He blamed my controllers release velocity.
Nope. It’s the programming. Thank you for validating my experience.
Not many controllers send release velocity, even some amazing controllers neglect this. Kawai mp7se has it, and it didn't make any difference!
I guess the developer prefers to keep it as an underdeveloped high potential thing, when he could just make it incredible. Or its just a limitation of the platform from Crudebyte, wich also has Heavy Brass, iSymphonic Orquestra, CMP Grand piano, Oriental strings among others. The justification they gave you doesn't make any sense. A simple ADSR envelope, or just AR with help a lot.
I’ve also complained to the developer and he did the same thing by blaming the user. On their upright some of the lower notes are out of tune. A guy pointed this out 6 years ago and he said it was false when clearly a huge issue. I think he knows there are issues but is entirely in denial and very easily offended and deflects from the issues.
Yes, I noticed all of those problems. It's a shame that the developer don't want to take into account the custumer experience, so I did the same as do in a restaurant with bad and desrespectfull service: I just leave. That's why Colossus is not anymore occupying space on my iPad storage!
Thank you for putting into words what my ears were telling me.
Thanks for earring my words!
Apart from anything else, great musical playing. Thanks
Thank you @namenaim1560 !
Thank you for deep dive videos Fausto. At last I found videos/reviews from someone who really understands music (and plays incredible). Most videos you find on youtube are “shallow” since the reviewer/player lacks the classical knowledge from…classical music. Keep the videos coming.
I used to think Pianoteq was a "cheap toy" and not worthy of being placed in the same context as other more popular "high end" VST's. I'm changing my mind. Pianoteq continues to develop and is getting quite good, good enough that there are times when I prefer the sound of Pianoteq to other VST's. Perfect? No. But neither is any other VST I've heard. Thank you for sharing your experience!
Thank you for watching! Modelling in general is getting better and more acurate. It is the future.
best demo here in youtube ❤
@@hdihiiehei Thank you!
Thanks for the helpful comparison!
Thank you! Glad it was helpfull!
Thank you! I like Pianoteq very much!
Me too! Thank you!
Thank you, this is the best iOS piano apps comparison so far !
You will notice a flaw in Ravenscroft when setting the « timbre » parameter to the left (more mellow sound) : the release samples of treble notes (near G#5) are removed and the sound cuts in an unnatural way. Less noticeable with reverb, but still… Otherwise a very good piano for the price. I am almost a bit sad to abandon it for PianoTeq (well… no, let’s rejoice 😀).
Thank you Paulo! You're right. That happens because the timbre knob just shifts and retune the samples up or down. It's a very simple and economical way of changing caracter radically. But by doing that, it messes up the release maps and the undampened strings from the highest octaves. Use it wiselly!
@@FaustoFerreira Thank you Fausto. You really know your stuff... I didn’t want to go into detail at first but that’s exactly the reply I got from UVI’s support when asking. Although I think there was still a workaround for it, simply adding a non null release time to samples impacted by the shift. Anyway, Ravenscroft is still a beautiful piano app for the price. PianoTeq does better but not in the same price league. Cheers.
Thank you for your qualified assessment...and may many more piano apps follow...and make us all happier 😘
Excellent review! I have the Ravenscroft, korg module, iGrand, but with this review, i’m thinking to buy pianoteq, thank you !
Thank you! I think its worth it!
Thank you for your insight and review of these pianos. It’s amazing that technology replicates a sophisticated instrument to the point that it is a real experience on a tablet computer. I enjoyed your playing too.
Thank you! I'm glad I can help. 20 years ago that level of portability was just a dream. Now we have it.
Thank you so much for this verry good demonstration. It really show the diverens from the piano apps loud and clear. And you are a verry good pianoplayer!👍👍👍
Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and talent. This was exactly the information I needed.
Thank you! Happy to help.
Glad to have come across this video and your channel. Subscribed! I currently use Ravenscroft275 which I am happy with, but have been considering trying some other options. I am a singer who plays piano only really to accompany my vocal but am enjoying progressing with the instrument.. I think Pianoteq sounds incredible but my ability does not yet justify the price. Although thinking maybe the investment would make me play more.. I have an old Yamaha NP32 at the moment which I am just using with MIDI but am after something with weighted keys. I’ve been thinking of getting a Korg D1 or Kawai ES120 but I’m not sure if I’d be better off with an SL88 + Pianoteq & other auv3s in AUM etc as i’ll be more often than not processing vocals on iPad now, too. Any other recommendations would be very much appreciated.
Thank you! Coming from a NP32 you will find the Korg D1 very stiff, and very limited as a controller. The SL88 is a decent low budget alternative. My preference goes to the Kawai ES120, sweet keys, lighter but well balanced, decent sounds also, and Portable. Or the Numa X 76/88. Very good keys and a more advanced controller, with Effective piano sounds. Of course, Ravenscroft and pianoteq beats them all, even high end stage pianos, including the red ones.
Very good!! What is your opinion about the Genuine Sounds Vol.1 Piano edition?
It's a very comprehensive collection, acoustic and electric pianos, but not on the level of Ravenscroft or Pianoteq, but I value the variety. Samples are compressed. For full quality of the same samples, you have to go for Just Piano, the biggest one with almost 4 gb! But you can only have one piano installed at a time. I don't like this aproach. Rav and Pianoteq are still my prefered ones.
What an amazing couple of reviews.. This and the Organs one. You flawlessly showed the sample transition in the Korg Pianos, but I also want to point out that in Korg Pianos, there are some chords that for some reason sound horrible to me, sounds like some keys went to mono or that they are using just a pitch shifted sample and then when you hit that chord then it starts to show some horrible phase problems, C4 was one of those chords. So basically you can hear the Velocity sample shift and the Range Sample Shift.
There is also a new inexpensive plugin from GSI that is called Just Piano, is not the best playing solo, but it sits PERFECT in the rock mixes.
Thanks for your comments, and for your contribution to this topic! It’s true, there’s some annoying things going on the Korg pianos!
GSI Just Piano, just came out after I released the review. I emailed GSI, and they said Just Piano was like a simplified version of Genuine Sounds vol1, with the same sound engine, which could use just one Multisample sound at a time. However, it’s much more then that. In many Genuine Sounds vol1 sounds, you get a very limited sample set. In Just piano, you have to choose and download just one of them, but then you have the complete sample set: I have now installed Grand CFX with 3.5 GB just for one piano!
Wow, this passed me by surprisingly for iOS as I track new audio pro releases of course - defo going to check this out as Pianoteq has as I physically hear it now been developed to this point where it really does simulate an acoustic piano! Got NumaX GT several months back, using Ravenscroft very nice so interested in this now Fausto 😀🙏🎹🎶💥🍻.
Thanks. I'm preparing a new video about Modeling in general allready available for iOS. Strings, winds, percussion, pianos, etc... Of course I will dig deeply on Pianoteq.
@@FaustoFerreira That's great Fausto, very much looking forward to seeing that video drop 😎👌🍻 ps. Sub'd btw!!
Good morning Fausto, thank you so much ! I ve also have the numa X and want to buy pianotec , i ve the standard pedal ......i want to buy a progressive one or better ask...which one do you use on yours??? ......hope to hear from you or anyone for advice....thanks again and keep playing....!!! 😄👍🏽
Good morning! Easy: the classic, Roland DP10
Obrigado Fausto! Great review.
Thank you! Happy to help
Amazone good review ! And you are so talented. Chapeau !
Merci! Glad you enjoyed it!
Hi. Great video Sir. I'm planning to purchase the pianoteq after watching this, especially the steinway D. Just a question, how heavy is this pack and how much space should be available on my ipad ? Thanks for the answer.
Thank you! It's about... 50 ... Mb?!!! It's MegaBytes, not GigaBytes! Don't worry about that. More important is: in what device are you running it? Processing power is the key here. My underpowered iPad Mini 4 was really struggling with it ( depending on buffer size, I need it low, for low latency, like 5 ms, as anything above 9 ms is allready distracting for me ). The 2018 iPad Pro allready runs it in a Daw with complex arrangements, and my iPad pro M2 just don't even notice it is there! I guess any new iPad Mini, or regular iPad would run it swiftly.
Thanks for the video - pianoteq sounds fantastic. How are you connecting to your iPad from your digital piano?
Thanks, it does! I connect the iPad through a single cable, to an USB C hub with PD. Keyboards, audio interface, monitors etc... are allready connected to the Hub, so that when I arrive with my iPad, I just need to connect one cable to have everything connected in the studio, including power for the iPad and everything that's connected to it.
@@FaustoFerreira as so many have said, beautiful improv! could i ask what hub you use? i've been trying to connect my Roland LX17 piano with my iPhone with Pianoteq 8 since it came out without success - Pianoteq won't recognize any input from my piano. Thanks :)
Will there ever be sth like Korg Module from Yamaha, even if only with the Motif XF sounds?
It would be nice! Motif based even better.
@@FaustoFerreira I agree, the "only" was just put in, because there is a new generation sound engine (Montage). But I would think, the Motif XS/XF engine could be more easily transported to an iOS plattform and would still be a great performers or composers tool. If the app would also feature the Motif sequencer, wow 🙂
What do you think is the reason, that Yamaha didn't do it, yet?
- they don't believe in the financial prospects?
- too difficult?
- they don't want to jeopardise/cannibalise their hw synth sales?
And why did Korg come to different conclusions?
@followyourpassion8378 I see Korg as an inovative company, driving music technology forward. Although yamaha have done it in the past, it's for me a more conservative company. That being said, Yamaha is incredible bringing the highest standards in every area, from boat engines to the most exquisite concert pianos.
Korg is allready deep in the iOS business, you can have all of the 90's and 2000's Korg synths on your iPad. Yamaha sees the ipad as a secundary device to help manage or control their hardware.
@@FaustoFerreira Thank you very much for this interesting inside. For me and my simple DAW needs, iOS Cubasis (which ironically is Yamaha 🙂) + iOS sound modules have become the solution I use most, though I have Cubase, Kontakt, ... on PC. I just hate switching from mouse/clicking to instrument, when recording.
@@followyourpassion8378 Exactly my feelings about iPad. Many complain about the price of the Apple, keyboard, how big and bulky it makes the iPad, or about the pen. I went iPad only because I just love to use touch screen. And it must be exclusive, with my fingers, or it is a big mess: grab the pen, leave the pen, grab the mouse, leave the mouse, type a few words on the keyboard, manage them on the screen, return to the Midi Keyboard...
And many functions you can only access with two or more fingers on the screen, no pen or mouse can do it so easily.
For typing long text ( which is rarely) I use an external keyboard, either usb or bluetooth, and it is just fine.
People looking for an iPad to use it like they use a MacBook are misliding themselfes: buy a laptop instead. Or have both, for different applications. Me? I only need my iPad Pro for 99% of what I do
Thanks a lot! I'm in the middle of the mess to find a pleasing VST to improve my Yamaha Arius messy bass sound. I've already purchased many but none has been pleasing. I think that my monitor speakers may be of too poor quality and should update them before anything more. Could you please be kind and tell us which speakers you are using on this video. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! Yamaha HS8. Hs7 and Hs5 are also good choices
I am not a tweaker of sounds. Given that, should I be looking at Pianoteq or Ravenscroft. Thanks
I thought I would go crazy editing all my sounds on Pianoteq, so I ended up buying the full thing! But the presets are so good, that, even with the possibility to edit everything note by note, I allways chose a
preset, and play with the "Condition" slider ( almost allways leave it at 0.25 ), and usually reduce reverb. So, You can buy the base pack and still get everything you need, if you're not a tweaker.
I like both, but the playability on Pianoteq is better than any other thing I know. Velocity curves and overall responsiveness seams to work perfect, right out of the box with all the controllers you throw at it! Nothing beats modeling for control and expressiveness, except the real thing!
Hi @FaustoFerreira, did you used audio interface or only iPad for the sound? Thanks
Hi @how-to1675 I wish it could be that simple. My voice was recorded through the audio interface ( Volt 476 )going to the line in from the camera ( Fuji XT5 ). The Audio Units sounds ( my playing ) was a direct Screen Recording with sound, works quite well with decent sound and video specs. Editing and synchronizing ( Screen and audio recording from the iPad plus Audio and video from the camera ) done on Lumafusion, all done in the iPad. Would not trust the internal mics and pre-amps from the ipad or from the câmera for any half serious work.
What kind of studio monitors do you use for this setup? I know sound in this video is probably just direct line out. But wondering what you use when you are just playing.
Yamaha HS8, matched pair.
What a great review. Thank you for that. Could you explain how you recorded the piano audio? Did it pass through an audio intertace to anouther ipad?
Thank you! Voice was recorded through Volt 476, directly in camera ( xt5 ). Instruments recorded directly from Apple own screen recording, which also records Audio, with built in mics turned off. Editing done in Lumafusion for iOS.
During the editing in Lumafusion did you improve volume or any other audio parameter? I ask because when I record screen the audio quality is not what we hear in your review.@@FaustoFerreira
@@jeronimojunqueira5431 Lumafusion can use Audio Units. Of course I treat the audio as in any other audio project. But it's strange that you are getting bad sound quality from screen recording. It is VERY important that you disable the ipads mics, and just enable internal recording.
Hi ,beautiful video. Thank you very much. I am new to pianoteq. How much to get the app…. Please let me know
Thanks Paul! It is expensive, but worth it! Around 120€, plus 120, plus 120 ( for the ultimate editing capabilities) Plus the specific models, or you buy the complete pack, around 800€. But the base pack should be fine if you are not an hardcore tweeker. Then build it up with sound packs gradually.
@@FaustoFerreira Thanks so much for your reply. So I spend 120 as a licence ( base pack) plus specific models 49 pounds each. Am I right?
@@paulkishan Yes. And at each level you can choose one free model
Excellent review and comparison. One of the best videos that I've seen. The way you explain and demonstrate specific performance characteristics and how they fit into context is very helpful. A lot of people will say this or that piano is good or bad, but it's also important to understand what type of piano character and dynamics you need for a particular project. Thanks!
P.S. - I wonder if you have tried the Acoustic Grand piano in BeatHawk? I've listened to the demo samples and it sounds pretty good to me.
Thank you very much! Yes I have. Beathawk Grand has the same problem as its Rhodes: they sound very good but not very versatile: they lack in the higher dynamics. They reach to the limit prety fast, but never get to Fortissimo. This is for me reason enough to exclude it from the list. From a producer perspective however, they might work very well in certain contexts.
Beautiful piano voice. Just subscribed..
Thanks! Glad to share my know-how with those who apreciate and take value out of it !
Great vídeo Fausto. I play with KORG Krome ex88 and Ravenscroft. Do you recommend pro or STd ? All instruments are in 192khz in PRO? About instruments which is your election? Would be It good Stenway D, Petrof & berstein? And more ? Thanks a lot and great explanation
Thanks! That's difficult to answer. I think you are asking now about Pianoteq, not Ravenscroft. I believe that the standard version is good enough for 99.9% of us. I'm an heavy editor, that's why I like the Pro version, with its per note editing capabilities. And to be honnest, I really don't hear any difference between 48khz or 192Khz internal processing. In fact, when I need to export something in 192khz, some clients require that, I just run it through a AD converter, and recorded again as audio at that sample rate. If you do that with an original 48khz file, 192khz or even a real acoustic, the difference for me is 0. As for Piano packs, I think the Steinway D is a must. The rest, trust your hears, you will definitely want another different character piano. Take your time hearing the performances samples in Pianoteq page, they are musically very enjoyable, you will have a good time doing that, and for sure you will end up knowing exactly what you need .
Thanks Fausto. Yes It is about piano Tech. I used colossus and after ravenscroft but Pianoteq is better. About the pack, yes I played a lot with the demo between diferent grand pianos and I believe my election with std will be stenway D, petrof and bechstein for having different colours or tastes. Thanks a lot for your explanation
What do you think of stenway B? With stenway D is enough? Which are the differences between them? Thanks
Thank you for the video, any way I get get a soft piano sound for ios like the Labs soft piano
Sweet sounds, not for iOS though. Yet.
Great review. You really know well what you are do. Thank you.
Thank you, doing my best to share my experience.
Piano ios vst developers must understand this: If a piano vst doesn't support half-pedalind then it's not playable for solo play. Pianoteq is the best also for this reason. Others have good samples but without half pedaling, are not playable.
More and more digital pianos, apps and pedals are supporting half pedaling. It needs a sofisticated model, not just a simple decay curve adjustment, because you also change the harmonic content and sympathetic resonances. So in most cases I don't care about that, I prefer not to have it than to have a simplistic aproach to it. I think Pianoteq is the only one qualified to do that in a realistic and meaningfull way.
The thing you "just improvised" was the most beautiful peace I've ever heard.
The contour, the harmony, the fluidity... absolutely mesmerising.
I need a released version on streaming platforms!!
Thanks Celine! It just came out like that! I wouldn't mind if you care to trancribe it.
Where in the video is that?
Fausto, how do you manage to have 3 scenes in row on camelot display?? I can make only 2 !!! Thanks in advance!!
That's a good question. On my iPad pro 11' I also only get two scenes on a row. On my iPad pro 12.9 I get 3 scenes on a row by default. Don't know if there's a way of changing it, but never felt the need. But now I'm curious. If you find a way of changing it, please let me know. Thanks
@@FaustoFerreira Ok...Thanks a lot
Fantastic review!!
Thanks! Love doing it, improvising in every aspect, no script, no pre existing music, just a vague idea of structure. But I have to confess I had a deep knowledge about those pianos, except Pianoteq. Soon I will release a more informed review with wider experience on it.
Amazing analysis! Subbed
Can you share your set up? All the equipments that you to record this clip?
Of course! I allready did, just read the final part of the video description. If you need more info, I will be glad to share!
There's also "GSi Just Piano" that sounds amazing for the cheapest price you could get.
Would be nice to have a comparison of that one as well.
Thanks for the suggestion, you are right, it's time for an update now!
Masterful! Mille grazie!
Thank you, glad I was helpfull
What software are you using to show all of your VST's on one screen?
Camelot. It allows you to manage, layer, split, route effects, midi etc... of all of your AUV3's ( Audio Units )
@@FaustoFerreira It looks very nice 👍. Thank you.
Hi Fausto What the reason your election to Stenway D, B and Grotian? Thanks
Well, Steinway is Steinway. D is the concert standard. B is the next best thing with more character. Grotrian just because I liked the sound!
I’m glad that I found your reviews here, specifically for the Studiologic Numa Piano. I bought their GT 88, because I was pretty sure that I would like the way the keybed plays. Well, I did like the feel of the GT 88’s keybed, however I was disappointed with their grand piano sounds, and didn’t like their three color light selection for getting around the various dials and effects, so I returned it, and got a Nord Piano 5.
I like the Nord Piano 5, and I enjoy playing it much more than the Studiologic Numa. The keys seem to easier to play than the Numa GT, and the Acoustic Piano sounds are much better.
I like many of the Piano sounds that you have played from these apps, especially the Pianoteq. Putting aside any of the extra time it takes to set up the IPad and midi channels, would you prefer using one of the Pianoteq pianos, for playing a live gig, or recording, compared to using any of the Piano sounds available within the Nord Stage 3, or Electro/Piano 4 or 5 ? Thanks for your excellent reviews, and of course your playing is another source to learn from just by listening to.
Thanks for your motivating words! I use a Nord Stage 3 Compact, I play better piano on semi-weighted keys than Hammond on fully weighted keys. Was never a fan of Fatar weighted keys on Nords, check Why on my Numa X 88 review. As for the sounds, Nord is still unbeatable, on hardware devices. String resonances, and especially release samples are super well implemented and realistic. The release samples on the electric pianos is for me the reason for their success, even if nobody realizes that. Not the case of Numa. However, if it is a piano centerd gig, I prefer the Numa, with either Ravenscroft or Pianoteq. Connecting it is straightforword: one cable. No setup time, the software imediatly recognices the Numa, and thats it. Unless you are using a more complex setup, with more instruments. Even so, if preciously prepared, theres nothing to worry about on stage. I've been using the iPad on stage since ten years now, on some important concerts. Zero surprises untill now. So I use one or the other, or both, depending on the type of gig.
For recording, defenitely Software, its just easier to setup and edit performance and sound on post.Ravenscroft and Pianoteq are also a step above the Nord pianos.
@@FaustoFerreira Hello Fausto, I appreciate your response. It’s interesting to hear that you have included the Ipad as part of your performance gear so often. I have had the apps for Ravenscroft 275, and the B3X for just a few months. The IPad that I have is just an IPad 9, with the A13 Bionic chip, not the Pro, with the M2. (Now that I realize the difference, I might eventually get the Pro version) I’ve played the B3X through my Roland Keyboard amplifier, only a few times, at fairly low volume. I know that the IPad 9 is not expected to perform as well, or reliably as the IPad Pro, with the M2 chip, and 2x more core. Hopefully I will at least get to try it out at one of the Blues Jams that I go to. If the IPad 9 doesn’t work, I have a couple of different 5-pin midi sound modules I can use for Organ, when I take my Nord Piano 5 to play in a band situation. If you are thinking of making more demonstration type videos, maybe you could think about doing a demo video about the B3X Organ app. I think that there are still many players who have not heard about it, and I would think that many of us who do know about the amazing B3X app could probably learn something new by observing your playing it, and showing some of the many things it does. I play Piano mainly, and I played Piano for so many years without seriously thinking of playing Organ, when I finally got curious about playing Organ, I was not aware of how differently it needs to be approached, and how many different techniques are used for playing Organ, to get the kinds of sounds that we hear from many good Organ players. Thanks Fausto !
You must have special powers! Thats exactly my next review! All Hammond clones for iOS, against... the new original, Hammond XK5, and also Nord Stage 3. With tipps and edits. Just waiting for my main camera to return from the repair shop. As for the iPad, I think you shouldn't worry. I use the M2 for producing, but still use the 2018 iPad pro ( 6GB of ram, because its the 1Tera version, with an A12x ) for stage use. Since five years going with me everywhere, everyday! Still runs like new! Before that, I used the first generation of iPad Pro, without any problems, just not capable for production, but still good enough to have three or four instruments ready in a setup. Befora that, used an iPad Mini 4, good enough. Before that a mini 3 and before that a mini 2. For the Stage the mini 5 is super paractical, and runs everything we need. If you need the best, get the ProM2. I have the 16GB version, very capable for production, but you would be fine with 8GB for the stage.
@@FaustoFerreira Good to hear about your plans for a review of Organ apps! I appreciate that you mentioned how you were still able to get good playing results with your earlier versions of smaller IPads. I got a pretty good deal on my 9th Gen IPad, it has 64gb general memory, and 3 GB SDDR RAM. It’s been working well with the B3X, and Ravenscroft, also ‘Neo-Soul keys’ Electric Pianos sound very good. I don’t want to play them through my amp at performance volumes, since I have things set up in a room with windows too close to the house next door, so I have to wait until I’m at a jam situation, where I can really turn the sound up in my amp, and then finally hear if the sound quality is still solid at higher volumes.
If you haven’t seen the Studiologic ‘Mixface’ device, it’s worth checking out. It’s a small MIDI device that has 8 or 9 drawbars, to be able to control some of the Organ App drawbars without using the touchscreen. Korg makes a similar device, I haven’t had a chance to try them, partly because I’m still thinking of getting a Yamaha YC 88. Thanks Fausto !
I own a Kawai MP11SE which has two excellent sampled pianos. One is the Kawai EX Concert Grand, which was the default sound of the MP11, and one is the Kawai Shigeru SX Concert Grand, which has an outstanding, mellow sound that I love so much. The wooden keybed is also great. I would love to hear your opinion about those, if you ever get a chance to play them.
For the road I just bought the Ravenscroft 275 that I play on my Sudiologic Numa Compact 2x (7 kg) and I am very happy with it. My skill level isn't as high as yours and there is no justification for Pianoteq, at least for the time being.
I love them. I played a few gigs on the MP11SE and had a MP7Se myself, a lot of gigs with that one. Keys are good on both keyboards, but the keys on MP11 Se are simply on another level. Maybe the best on a “portable keyboard” ( if you can call a 36 kgs piano portable). Piano samples are the same. EX pianos are very good, but the SX are clearly a step above, with more and longer sample layers. But they are diferent in character, so you might want to use both, on diferent situations. But they are not studio quality: they still have short samples ( 1or 2 seconds on the EX and 3 or 5 on the SX samples, not a scientifical analysis, but shouldn’t be a very far guess), few sample layers ( guessing from 3 to 5 ), short loops after the sample ( very obvious when they come up, any single note sustained for more than 2 or three seconds makes this annoyingly obvious) , no real release samples, just an effect, uses too much filtering and filter resonance to compensate its shortcomings. It has good sympathetic resonance, sustain resonance, duplex resonance, and in the end it’s very effective, expressive and beautiful ( subjective )for solo playing. Needs a lot of work ( editing ) to make it work for live playing. Couldn’t use other sustain pedals than its own Kawai pedal, that’s a little bit scary, in case something goes wrong with it, or you forget it at home. Fortunately on the MP7Se the synth arquitecture is almost all available on board to edit the sounds. Mp7se also have a lot of very useful additional sounds, including synths, orquestrall sounds and a very realistic Hammond clone but with bad C/V simulation ( use the simple Leslie instead ). Also has very good effects section. MP7Se is also a much better controller, although nothing can beat the keys on MP11Se.
Ravenscroft is already studio quality , with no such shortcomings. But limited to a specific and very precisely tuned concert piano, not what you want to use as a character piano.
Pianoteq has it all. No shortcomings, infinite possibilities. Except for the price.
Thank you very much, for this detailed analysis. It‘s great to have such an expert around us. I probably will never ever sell my MP11SE, and I‘m glad to hear that you liked it, too. Another sound that’s comparable to the Shigeru seems to be the Bösendorfer on the Yamaha P515. I have played it once in a music shop.
By the way, I sold the Kawai triple pedal because it is so hard to press down. I‘m using a another one which I connect to the Foot Switch entry (and setting this to controller 64).
@@hungryformusikMP7SE had bugs not talked about: when connected to a Daw, when playing the recording the release would change dramatically, and the sustain effect also. That's why I stoped trying to work MIDI tracks with its internal sound. There where also something about using another foot switch entry with CC64, I don't have it with me now, but I think it was also the release and symp/resonance also. Check that on MP11Se. This and other small bugs don't make sense, shouldn't be there but they are. And never talked about because...well...the way most people use those instruments: the only button they touch is the on/off, volume the only slider.
Fantastic Video. Thanks.
Thank you!
I’m new at piano . Been using just Garage band on iOS I did find dead keys . Annoying . Good for learning , like me . About to get Ravenscroft
Welcome! If you want to get more serious about piano get Ravenscroft, or Pure piano, or even Pianoteq ( more expensive ). Of course you need a decent Midi controller.
Paid apps or not, piano teq sounds amazing and your great playing helped sell it for me. Nice character and detail. Is still cheaper than desktop or laptop apps.
Thank you! I'm glad I could help. The full Pianoteq is not cheap though....
@@FaustoFerreira what samples did you buy first as a starter? I demoed the Steinway D NY. That is currently $50
I started with the Steinways, and Grotrian. But that's really personall, take your time listening the excelent examples in the site, and demoing the limited free versions ( time limitations, some mute notes, but enough to try them ). And... let's not call them samples, because there are none, let's call them Models.😉
IOS iPad versus computer (MacBook Pro)? Any thoughts on reliability, etc? I have both (no PT 8 yet, getting the update, just found out a few days ago it happened!). I'm trying to NOT buy a Nord....
I like the workflow on iPad. I like that it's allways reliable. I like the touchscreen aproach. I like the simplicity of iOS ( well, iPadOs ). I like the power of recent iPad pros and how efficient they are today. I like that there are a lot of specific iPad Apps that are so good, so different and so affordable, especially synths and effects. I like the portability and usability ( opening an MacBook pro just increases its size exponencially ). For live playing, still using the 2018 ipad Pro, never failed once ( one or two fails on sound checks, due to cheap accessories and cables, lesson learned ). Forgot to mention in the video, USB cable orientation metters! ( I have the correct orientation marked on all the cables ). If you are used to Macbook, continue, they can be more powerfull, depending on what you need and how much you want to spend. I started fresh with iPads, with iPad II back in 2012. So my system is now fully iPad based, so I'm biased 😁. This new Pro's now, with 16Gb ram and 1T storage are very capable. My M2 is the centerpiece of the studio. And I also use a Nord😉 They just work, specially for covers and specific artists requests for live playing, I can allways find a way to make it work. But when I need endless criative power, especially for synths, or amazing pianos ( with pianoteq, Ravenscroft, etc..), or amazing Hammonds ( VB3m, VB3 II, Hammond B3X ), I use the iPad. The Nord stays in the bag when not in use for rehearsells or small gigs. The iPad is used daily in the studio and major gigs ( even if I use the Nord as a controller onstage sometimes ). Now, seting up this iPadOs system from scratch these days will not come easy or cheap. If you allready have good software for Mac maybe you should just stick with it. If you are starting from scratch, on either system, don't be afraid of investing in iOS. It is growing, now very powerfull allready.
@@FaustoFerreira I have two iPads, an older 12.9 Pro and a newer mini, both with lightening. Right now I'm cursing my MacBookPro and Apple for not putting a damn power cord on the thing thus requiring dongles, which are not working. I need reliability, and Nord will offer that.
I don't want to spend any more money on this until I know something works or not. No new iPad, mine should be fine. I think the ;power thing is huge though. Can't run out!
@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton Power was never an issue for me. I have two sets of Pd Hubs+power supply, I can run these for hours holding 100% battery all the time, even with lightening, with the USB 3 adaptor which lets you charge while conecting to usb devices, and hubs. The Nord offers reliabilitty, thats for sure, and its efficient. I go that route many times also, specially at festivals, where you do soundcheck, and then take your things again, and at night you have to redo everything. Just be aware that they have very sensitive fuses, I know many people with dead Nords onstage. Easy fixable, but not on site, and can ruin a show.
Wow abut those Nord fuses! Thanks for letting me know that! I tried the Nord Electro 6D yesterday - the keybed was "meh." I like my Numa Compact's Fatar TP9 much better. I'm trying NOT to buy a Nord - I can use the money for a new alto saxophone (my main axe is tenor) That's about half the funds needed. Or a Telecaster guitar (custom, for my big hands). Regarding power, I mean my MacBookPro - the hub isn't giving it power and the battery ran down. If I use one of the two C ports for power, that leaves only one left, and the Numa wants it's own port as well. So I'm shy one port! Is the iPad output 1/8" actually enough to plug into a PA system? @@FaustoFerreira
@JeffreySaxophoneTallNewton 1/8 is an headphone output. It works, but better to use a proper audio interface. Although the 10€ dongle ( the headphone adaptor ) soumds better than most cheap audio interfaces...why does Numa require its own port? Use one port for charging and the other for connecting a non powered Hub.
I see on your video just a cable from your ipad. how you play midi and audio in same time? i have ipad air 5 and i have not good solutions for play without noise with any adaptor. what you use?
I use a USB Hub with PD ( Power delivery, charging iPad and powering all the other things ). Everything is allways conected. I just need to connect one cable when I arrive to the studio with my iPad. Make sure your cables handle 60w or more, 5gb/s or more. dont ever use cheap USB cables and check these specs.
With older iPads with lightening, you have to use Lightening to USB3 Camera adapter, which as allready a charging port. Then you connect your hubs. The same good quality cables rule apply here.
Older iPads have an OK inbuilt 3.5 headphones socket, for Stereo audio out and mono in ( never used it for audio in ).
Use a good audio interface, or if you just need stereo audio out, use Apple's own dongle, rhe headphones adapter. This is the only thing Apple sells that is not overpriced: for 10€ you get an extremelly good, low noise high resolution audio output, beating much more expensive professional audio interfaces.
Thanks… well done!
Pure synth has some grands and uprights that I prefer over Ravenscroft and painoteq. The best grand they have is buried deep in their library but well worth the dig. It’s called rich grand. Take the reverb off and eq it a tad also tweak the mechanics and it sounds phenomenal.
I know Gospel Musicians. They are good at electric pianos, Neo soul Keys. I have also Pure Synth and all the packs. But in all honesty, couldn't consider them for this comparisson. I explain you Why. 1: Velocity transitions are obvious, with abrupt changes of timbre, just do the one note test from pp to ff. 2: they implemented release samples, but completely wrong, should be envelope dependent, but they are allways the same, no matter if you just striked the key or if the sound is allready gone 3: they don't know that the last octave and a half of a piano is damper free ( slight variations between instruments, some start in F, others in G. This is unforgiveble, only seen in bad synths from the 90's.
4: lack of any kind of ressonance ( single note, sustain pedal, or duplex resonance ) 5: very short samples, in some cases they even stop abuptly 6: The upright samples use an old sampling technique, recording every note allways with the pedal down, wich have a completely diferent sound than the pure note without pedal ( try playng a single note and holding it in the last octave, without pedal, and than do this in Ravenscroft, or pianoteq, or any of the others mentioned in the review, you will understand. And there's much more serious errors, wich a discerning pianist cannot tolerate. They Know about Electric pianos, they are some of the best around. But they don't know anything about Acoustic pianos.
Now, if someone likes something, thats a completely subjective affair, I love my old Casio, and my Fiat 127.
Objectively and analitically, those pianos are not worthy of consideration for proper piano playing.
Play some hammer major chords on a pop song with the pedal down though, and they might sound awsome!
@@FaustoFerreira Wow, thank you for your response. I appreciate your insight and I will do the comparisons you recommend. So far I am in love with the guitars on pianoteq, but had not been aware just how much went into the piano sounds. I will definitely give it another listen. I did not appreciate the quality when I first download pianoteq. I did notice I would hear Pro’s play it, and I could really hear the dynamics. I’m not a real pianist more so a producer, so I understand your perspective. Thanks again.
You're welcome! I understand also the producer's point off view, Pure Synth might be a valuable resource for you!
@@FaustoFerreiraI entirely agree re the Gospel Musicians stuff, some of it’s good but the pianos are poor. The sample sets just aren’t well done.
@@JayTheLane That's right Jay! But I still think they might be usefull as a producers resource.
Thanks for this fantastic review and comparison. I completely agree with you on your analysis and I like that you point out that it also can depend on the situation which one is suitable (or at can also work...). I would be interested in which one you would choose for a band setting on stage where you want a good sounding grand piano which does not get lost in the mix.
I've used Ravenscroft extensively in live contexts, with Funk, blues, Soul, Pop, Jazz bands etc...
I allways found a way of cutting through the band. The editing is very limited compared to the PC version, or to Piqnoteq, but enough to get there. Use the timbre knob ( it just offsets samples, but with great impact on the overall perception of caracter ). Did it a lot on Triple Strike piano from Kurzweil PC3. Even today they would sound amazing compared to new tecnology, with some heavy use of all the VAST possibilities.
Use the internal EQ. Three fixed frequencies but exactly the right ones!
I still need more time to evaluate Pianoteq on a live context, but I predict it will be my Go To piano from now on.
The good thing with a modeled instrument is that you can allways get where you want ( depending you know exactly what you want :) )
As said before, I consider all the others for specific situations, but for versatility purposes ( leave it on from the beggining to the end of the show, and to the next show) those two are the only ones I can recomend. Some people reported strange behavers with Ravenscroft but I never had any problem.
In any case, allways work the velocity curves, both in your keyboard and in the app, it can transform completely the interaction with the instrument, and ultimately the sound you get from the instrument.
Hey Maybe you can help me. Is it me or does Ravenscroft sound better standalone then ran through Camelot Pro?
Never experienced that. Check out the Audio Buffer: above a certain point ( 512 ) we start perceiving latency as softness while we are playing, before we start perceiving it as latency ( above 1024 ). Some people are more sensitive to it then others. Sweet spot for me is 256 ( 5.1 ms ), as it doesnt stress the machine and is still acceptable for fluid playing.
Check the volumes: Camelot has volume control on the layer itself, and on the mixer section, plus the volume on Racenscroft. Slight differences in volume also changes our perception.
Turn off equalizer and compression on Camelot mixer section.
Last but not least, make sure you have the same settings/preset on both situations!
Fantastic playing.
Beathawk studio grand really surprised me. Of course Pianoteq 8 is king
Yes it is! But I keep returning to Ravenscroft, I just can't help it!
@@FaustoFerreira I just bought Ravenscroft. Sounds great for the piano I need for ios. Couldn't really justify the price of pianoteq 8 for ios, even with its cross platform and I already own keyscape. Thanks for this video!
@@FaustoFerreiraRavenscroft is very well done but for me at least it is so well done that it can feel somewhat sterile.
Ravenscroft is sampled from a 300000€ concert grand, tuned exactly for that. Us, normal mortals, not classical concert pianists who play in major auditoriums, we are not used to that. So our reference is the Hotel, concert pubs, or even good auditoriums with good but allready old pianos ( for major auditoriuns criteria ), and tuned by local tuners, with specific situations in mind, with budget and time concerns, and sometimes pure negligence. I've had such rare opportunities to play in such pristine instruments, and, if it wasn't for the imponent size and sound coming from them, I would also consider them sterile. Ravenscroft 275 reminds me those giant Yamaha, Steinway or Bosendorfer, character wise not a Bosendorfer for sure, sitting more or less in the middle between Steinway and Yamaha. I've recently got deep into photography, and it's very interesting that many people also describe the expensive, big, perfect in every criteria lenses, as sterile and lifeless. I think there's a purpose for all of them, depending on your actual needs and the aestetics of the work you are doing.
Do you have a view on what is best for classical ? I think ravenscroft sounds almost like a synthesised e keyboard . It's great for jazz but it doesn't sound like a real piano.
But I also found most of pianos in Do you have a view on what is best for classical ? I think ravenscroft sounds almost like a synthesised e keyboard . It's great for jazz but it doesn't sound like a real piano.
But I also found pianoteq sound leas like a piano than the internal sound on my 15 year old Yamaha digital grand ?
I wonder why would you come to that conclusion. By playing them? If so, make sure you are using a proper 88 keys keyboard, with a correct velocity curve, from the leyboard part and a matching curve from the app part. From what source are you listening them? Good speakers, good headphones? Try to be more specific when you say things like "...sounds almost like a synthesised e keyboaed...", or "...sound less like a piano than the internal sound on my 15 year old yamaha digital grand?...". If you've seen my videos, you know my opinion about those instruments. Everybody's opinions are valid, except if you are just throwing a flamed opinion against something without proper arguments. My opinions are clear in the video, backed up by as many arguments as I could possibly find, based on long term analysys, and experience from both acoustic and digital pianos.
Thanks for making this! Very well done. Did you consider including the Numa Player app (since you're using their keyboard), or is it not anywhere near the quality of the others?
There are a lot off apps or samples that deserve an honourable mention, but didnt consider for this review: Genuine Sounds Piano edition ( severall diferent samples ), Numa Piano App, other Big samples inside of Colossus, Retro Piano, sound fonts on bs-16i, iSymphonic Keys Pack, iGrand, all the pianos on Sampletank, Lyra sampler etc...
Have them all, and used them all, on stage and studio.
Just think they might be usefull for some specific tasks, but for realistic piano experience, sound and playability, those reviewed here are still the only ones to consider. Even the M1 piano can be good... in the right context! But never a realistic piano experience
The sounds in the Numa app for ios is very basic
Hello, thank you for this demo, question: Ravenscroft sudden starts to chop off the sound sometimes it doesn’t wich makes it unusable, tried every setting , even reinstalled it and have a decent iPad Pro and no problem with other piano’s, could you give me a clue what is going on with it, does the same sound chopping/stopping in standalone or Cubasis, please help, thanks in advance
I've been using Ravenscroft since 2018 ipad pro 6gb ram . Then with ipad pro M2, 16 Gb ram. Used it standalone, in AudioBus, Aum, Auria Pro, never any problem. Allways using it at Audio buffer size 256 samples ( 5.3 ms latency ). Never had any problem, and believe me, I'm super picky! I've heard about other people complaining about that and other problems, but I never had that, even in very complex projects. As shown in my video, I have all the pianos opened at the same time ( as AUV3 in Camelot ) and zero problems! Sorry I cannot help you further, but did you check the quality of your USB cables? I had a problem similar to that you are describing, but I realized it was the cable from iPad to audio interface, it didn't handle the audio so well, shoping the sound. But it was happening with everything in general, not just Ravenscroft.
Advice for good paractice while playing/ producing music: shut down every app you dont need for your work flow; turn on flight mode; shut down everything that might compete with the audio processing ( youtube, web browser, internal video or audio files; if you use a hub, connect only one audio interface, or dongle, never both; in older ipads, where you still have 3.5 headphone Jack, either use that, or your audio interface, never both.
Hope I could help. Keep me informed
Also check out Hardware Latency on Cubasis itself, if the project gets too complex, you might have to trade latency for more stability. Cubasis 2 is still more reliable, although Cubasis 3 is much more powerfull
@@FaustoFerreira thanks for taking time and the quick reply, no problems with other plugins, just bought the piano in BeatHawk and guess what…exact same problem…same company as Ravenscroftí, no headphone conn. So use a hub., but I will try all your suggestions and will report back, have to ask you on more question, I played for a while the studiologic keyboard but the touch is too heavy for me, do you know of a keyboard with a lighter touch, or is it ‘one size fits all’ ?,played on a acoustic baby grand wich had the perfect weighted keys for me , thanks again much appreciated,Chris
@@FaustoFerreira yes came to that same conclusion
Numa x piano uses the new TP110 from Fatar, very diferent from The previous TP100, wich I also hated! Its never only the wheight, its so personal that I have to give you bad knews: you have to try it for yourself!
If you want semi wheighted, versatile and more robust then you might think, the M-Audio Keystation 88 is incredible, for the price and for the wheight. Also nice to play Hammond and synths on that keybed
I like the Ravesncroft 275 better. Imho.
Someone transcribe that man!
app store has suddenly stopped accepting my payment method. It is a mastercard but not a credit card which must be why. Means cards like debut cards will not send the amount for subsctpion each month unless there is enough in that acc to pay it. So it makes sense but if a person already has a subscription means they cannot maintain use of it. Like you start something but iOS blocks you from keeping up the lessons or blocks you from using that app you already downloaded and payed the initial amount for the subscription. It is not good.
感谢你的视频！如果能把视频分段标注一下就更好了！
Thanks for the suggestion, I will!
I installed Piano Tech with reference to this video.
I am very happy about that!
Thank you for your introduction.
By the way, what is the app on the top left?
I want to use it !!
Glad I can help! The app is Camelot Pro . It works with AUV3 instruments and effects, and external devices, with extensive MIDI and audio routings possibilities. And with a touch of the screen, uou can switch to a diferent setup or scene. Very powerful stuff!
@@FaustoFerreira hi … I also have the gadgets you use. 2 iPad pros… Volt 276, cubasis 3 and a Roland for midi. Please tell me how you record from Camelot pro to cubasis 3
@paulkishan Hello Paul. That's a very good question! I don't know why you would want to do that. Maybe to use a fine tuned layer/split/effect routing on Camelot, without the need to redo it on Cubasis? To change sounds on a performance recording? I never needed or wanted to do that, and if so,
you can also do it directly in Cubasis. But I tried to do it to answer you, and I don't think it's possible: Camelot is a Audio Units host, but its not a Audio Unit itself; its not AudioBus or even InterApp audio compatible, so not even AudioBus or AUM can do it. The way I'm recording my videos, I use the internal iPAD screen recording with internal sound ( disable the internal mics for that ) , and record the voice microfone in another ipad on cubase, or to the camera directly. Ducking and audio processing, mixing, synchronising and editing is done in post, using Cabasis and LumaFusion ( Video and audio ).
With two iPads, you can allways use one with Camelot as a sound module, and record it as audio from the audio interface to Cubasis 3 on the other iPad. But it is sure a very interesting limitation from Camelot, which I was not aware, because I never needed or wanted to do that. If you find a way, please let me know, now I'm curious.
@@FaustoFerreira Thankyou so much for the reply
You're welcome!
Pure Piano has string resonance now.
Yes, Pure Piano has now String Resonance, Korg Module has Oasys piano and Pianoteq is updated. I guess I need to do an update video.
@@FaustoFerreira yes and you might want to see what's available inside Logic for more Piano options as well.
@LucidMusicIncRecordings Thanks for the suggestion, I will, but not impressed by far
Greetings from Tijuana México!
Greetings from Lisboa, Portugal!
@@FaustoFerreira Eres de Portugal? Que bien! Tengo amigos en España!
@@FernandoGonzalez-dh6qr Portugal and Spain, two diferent countries in Peninsula Ibérica, with diferent cultures and diferent languages
@@FaustoFerreira Yes I know, i don´t speak português, but maybe you speak spanish
@@FernandoGonzalez-dh6qr Fernando, thanks for the message, hope you enjoy the review. We went a little bit off-topic here, my fault also :) Will be glad to further share with you my thoughts about pianos!
I like Keyscape
Of course you do. But... not available for iPadOS. My iPad Pro M2, 16 gb ram, 1TB storage, more than outperforms the minimum system requirements for keyscape instalation. Well, lets wait...
What are your favorite iPad apps for Rhodes and Wurlitzer electric pianos? Pianoteq, Neo-Soul Keys, Tines, Module Pro (EP-88M & Wurly), or something else?
I will reveal that on my next review: iOS EPs. Something else could also be GSI Genuine Sounds, BeatHawk's Electric piano, Acoustic Sample's VTines Live, Apesoft's Electric, iLectric ( yes, still relevant ), Neo-SoulKeys Studio AND the original NeoSoulKeys ( yes, still relevant ), Numa Player, and many EP samples in Colossus Piano.
@@FaustoFerreira How much longer? I want to hear your evaluation of the EPs! 😀
I'm glad that you you want that! I was waiting for new stuff to come out, and to have the chance to spend some time with it. Expect it beginning of next week. It will be a long long video...
You are an awesome piano player. I agree with everything what you said. My favorite is also the ravenscroft. I wish the Ivory had the velocity or the app engine as the ravenscroft. I rather the piano tone on the Ivory but velocity touch are terrible. Sometimes you cant hear some notes when i am playing fast scales. I think due the lack of polyphony. I also own the studiologic but is the GT version. 😅😅
Thank you! Are you enjoying the GT? ( action wise ).I didnt test it properly, and don't have access to one right now, but my short experience was very positive.
And Yeah, velocity curves and playability are sometimes more important than the timbre itself.
@@FaustoFerreira Yes I love the action of the GT. I also own the CP88 and I had played with many other brands like the nord stage 3. Wich feels kinda cheap to be honest. Feels like playing the Native Instruments komplete s88. I also played with the Roland Rd2000. The Roland has a very good key action but feels very heavy. I had played few Steinway pianos and the Numa GT keyboard feels close to that. It is my favorite so far due the design, portability and the premium key action. I was going to get the kawai Mp11se but looks like it is way to bulky and heavy. Also I will be selling the Yamaha CP88. I use my Nord electro most of the time when I play with my band.
I don't think these little differences in nuances matter much in the real world. Not in a live situation anyway, but also not in most recording scenarios, given that most times the piano is just part of a bigger arrangement and mix. All of these pianos sound great.
It's not a matter of opinion. Release samples, duplex resonance and sustain pedal resonance are not nuances. They absolutely shape the internal acoustics of the real instrument. And they are very noticeable. When they are well simulated, they really make a big change. Baddly implemented sample transitions and velocity curves can make an instrument not usable for me. Pedal noises and string resonances are in fact less noticeable, but when done properly they also add up to the final result. And there are two different analisys perspectives: one from the listeners ( or producers, who tend to put themselfs in the listeners position ), and from the real pianists ( you know, those who studied and practiced all their lifes on real instruments, even if they also need or want to use electronic instruments ). For those the " nice sound" is not enough: the interaction with the instrument is much more important, and all those "nuances" can make the difference between a satisfying experince or a painfull one.
🙏🏻🔥🚀🔝
Nothing beats pianoteq !
But then nothing beats a real recording :p especially on the attack of the sound. Samples are still way WAY superior to pianoteq for that.
all cinematiq unacorda where you want texture... virtual instruments are just not there at all. My $1k5 piano is better :'D
I understand pianotq is about virtual.. but I would love they would add some samples for the first ms of the sounds..
Agree about sample/modeling/real thing. But mixing a small attack sample with modeling for the decay it would defeat the purpose of modelling: samples are allways static, so the decay part would allways be dependent of that, risking being noticeable diferent and artificial, limiting the full editing power that is its main strength. Modeling works briliantly better for playability, but still as room to improve. And I think it will still improve as processing power continues to improve, allowing a more complex model. And sample based instruments will still improve as Ram and storage speed/amount improves. I remind you that most quality instruments today are hybrids, using samples for the notes and modeling for all resonances and noises, wich would be impossible to record due to the milion of possible combinations. Take Roland RD1000 with their Structure/adaptive Synthesis: it was wonderfull to play, expressive dynamic to play, but it didn't sound like a piano. V Piano? much better, but Moddart was allready in the lead. First generations of Pianoteq? We are miles away from that allready. I believe it will continue to improve untill its indistinguishable from samples. And take Yamaha DX7 with their electric pianos! Did they sound like a real Rhodes, the sound they where trying to emulate? No, but they where, again, most superior to any sample based instrument for playabilty and expression, that's why they became popular in the 80's and a classic today, badly represented
nowadays from... you guessed it, sample based instruments!
And if you check many jigh quality Rhodes sounds today, many are allready fully modeled, surpassing in average most sample based Rhodes. The same is happening to strings (Swam Audio), winds, brass, plucked, drums, etc...
Modeled is the way to go, but I agree, still not there yet!