ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2024
- This discussion about The Witcher books and their "Slavicness" has been going on for years without reaching any clear conclusion. That's why I wanted to discuss it in this video and explain my perspective on the matter.
#thewitcher #slavic #netflix
Easiest explanation is this: The Witcher is european folk tales (slavic, germanic, anglo, etc...) told through a slavic lense. As for what it means to be "slavic"? It goes back to the "nature vs nurture" debate, and the answer to that is "both": both your genetics, and your environment contribute to shaping you. Growing up as a slav, in a slavic country WILL influence your world view.
The netflix show is completely divorced from anything slavic, be it aesthetics, atmosphere, or even our philosophy & world view: all of it is absent.
Well said 🙂
@@FolkWalkCZ To be honest, it looks to me that is trying to alienate from it best it could. And I do not understand why? What was point of it?
@@motdurzazbratislavy6802 I think they were just trying to replicate GoT success with some Lotr sprinkled on top. And they were mostly Americans, weren't they? Poles hoped that Bagiński will have a big influence for the better, but it doesn't seem so.
@@motdurzazbratislavy6802 The point of it is simple. They wanted to tell their own fantasy story but they needed people to be interested in it - and so they needed to brand it in a popular name.
Thats it. Its a very common feature of modern woke entertainment. These writers want to write their own stuff but no one would be interested in that so they hijack a popular brand and remake it into what they want. And they explain the changes as "adding diversity" and making it for "the modern audience".
@@NeighborhoodBot But they were gutting Slavik aspects quite specifically. For example they completely changed magic system, which is quite strong hit to worldbuilding. That means quite lot of additional work resulting in additional money, and result was risky. All for no apparent reason. That is until you until you figure out original magic system, depicted in books is based on Slavik folklore. When you realize that, it showing new light on matter. It no longer looks like act of laziness, rather as controlled censuring.
I'm German and I'm reading the Witcher Books right now. To me, they seem Slavic AF. Especially how most of the characters talk and act like cynical hardasses but actually have a very soft core and a caring heart. The Villlains are lacking that caring heart entirely and try way too hard to make the hard exterior their interior, which is why they are evil.
And thats a way more relastic way of how people would react to a harsh hostile environment. Its so unauthetic to portray people with a Disney attitude in a dangerous unforgiving world like from the witcher.
We Slavic people may seems very rude, hardass or whatever but thats why we always speak directly and dont like small talks but in reality we are kinda soft people deep in our hearts :D
As a Swedish person the books felt a lot more like home than Lord of the Rings for me too, but after spending 1 month in the Polish countryside at 2 different occasions I could really appreciate them a whole lot more.
The Scandinavians are closely related to us "Slavic" peoples. So I understand where you're coming from. Skål!
@@miroslavmalivukovic1534 most of Swedish history has been linked with Eastern Europe and the eastern part of Central Europe. Us being part of the West is a very recent development.
@@johnlastname8752 Thank you sir, thank you for this honest answer.
@@johnlastname8752True. Plus so much Americans cannot read. So much people think Hans Christian Andersen's Little Mermaid's skin was green 🙉. Let's leave these uneducated folks to themselves.
How did you survive there?
I'm french and an avid fantasy reader, and when I read the books, I felt the Eastern European elements in it. It was obvious. Sure, the books take inspiration and reference a lot of european folklore, but the slavic elements are there, at their core. It is what gives the books their own unique atmosphere. It is different from fantasy written by North American or Western European authors. It is one of the elements that makes me like the books : it's another take on folklore and fantasy.
I think the people saying the books aren't slavic are people who can't distinguish or don't care to learn about the rich variety of European cultures, which is a shame. But I guess they're the same people who like this boring and bland show Netflix made of it...
Thanks for your videos! I always enjoy watching/listening, it is a joy to hear you talk passionately about folklore and the witcher. Keep up the good work! I'll take a look at the podcast series!
Well said, I very much agree. And thank you so much for the kind words, comments like these motivate me to keep going 🙂
name those" slavic" elements, i dare you
There is slavic mythology, names, description of countryside and it's people, and this depiction of joy in somehow depressed settings. as someone literally said this lower in the comments, also how the characters act, think, behave. everything from central europe is in there easily to be found. just the way monsters work and how you get rid of them us bunch of germanic and slavic tales. @@kjm1141
Many of people who say that series of books aren't slavic [in feeling], wasn't even readed this books.
If they readed this books and still can't point where is this "slavic" elements, it can be bc they wasn't in central/east Europe.
Next idea which i have in mind is translation of books.
We all know this series was translated on many languages [around 37] and like most times fro translations one is good another is weak [more less accurate].
I can only explain on Polish and Endlish version [bc only this 2 was readed], and english translate of Witcher story is ... good, but doesnt give same feeling like polish version.
Its hard to point it precissely but u would be get it if u can read polish version as a native. First big problem with feeling in english version are used more simple and common words in books, than used in native version. Its helps to new reader to get into this story, but in same time make more flat whole story. I know that most people will start war against me bc "English is great!", but its that element which can change whole idea about "how much slavic is whole Whicher universe?".
People from Europe can get easily in mind why Whicher have slavic character, but someone rised in USA or China, can get feeling, that this whole series is simmilar for them to any fantasy books writed in Europe, bc most of them don't see diffrence between english, french or polish folkrole and writing style. Writing "most" i have in mind people who wasnt in europe, and don't give a shit to learn some basics about this continent, like story, folkrole etc. Many people who come from USA are shocked that in Poland more common is to celebrate ur Names Day, than ur birthday. Its small detail, but this change ur pov on whole story, if u see something like that in story.
@@kjm1141 I'd say get curious and do your own research... but that would be expecting too much from a stranger on the internet who has a direct access to knowledge. Just to name a couple: the names, like Novigrad and Vizima for cities, or Stregobor and Vesemir, Milva even, for characters, the creatures/monsters the witcher fights, they are directly taken or inspired by slavic mythology... Or that small detail of fermented cabbage being regular food.
Edit : and hey, you're on this vid, check out the rest of the channel, you might also get answers there.
I think western ppl, generally and in the most generic sense, they deep down dont really like or at least understand Slavic Europe and culture like they do other Germanic or Celtic and even Romance ppl. In past we were always just something foreign to them, ruled over by Germans and easy to ignore peasants, in those parts they interacted with or big unknown like Russia or Ukraine and there was little if any interaction and usually only negative one.
Slavic subconsciously feel to them, to many ppl in West, like inferior and not really and properly European so as a result fantasy they happen to like cant be really Slavic, author whose work they adopted as their own cant like Slavic things etc.
Yeah, the way they made Dol Blathanna was crazy. The place is literally called the valley of flowers. All they needed were some green fields, some forests, and mountains in the back, but they made it look like a rocky desert for some reason. They could've easily shot it in some village near the Alpes, or in Poland or Slovakia near Tatra mountains where they probably wouldn't even have to construct wooden houses since there are so many old ones to choose from. Aesthetic and atmosphere would be kept.
Yeah, open-air museums in Slovakia would look beautiful.
You can just look for „krokusy Hala Gąsienicowa” or „krokusy w Tatrach”
@@FolkWalkCZ what is your opinion on Princess Weekes coverage of The Witcher?
I'm Austrian and for me, The Witcher feels decidedly "Central European". Polish, Bohemian, German. It's right on that edge to the borderlands of shared myth and folklore.
I am from Ukraine and Witcher 3 for me was like a journey to my grandmothers village. Actually, Velen was probably inspired by Polish-Ukrainian region Volyn`, junging by architecture
@@dprrrr Thanks for sharing.
Finally someone who shares my opinion! I always felt that the Witcher comprised the essence of central europe, the urbanized / industrial trading cities, the poor villages, the politics of the kings and the lack of centralization. As opposed to eastern or western europe, Central Europe had multiple small kingdoms (when we're talking about the Holy Roman Empire) and really strong independent nobility (in case of Poland) who also created their own independent semi kingdoms.
People who read these books in non-Slavic languages can miss a lot of Slavic elements because there are in the language, the words that Sapkowski used that have no equivalent in non-Slavic languages. Even in games, e.g. when Geralt drinks vodka, in the Polish version he asks for Przepalanka (the direct translation would be Burner or something that burns inside because it's so strong) but in the English version he simply asks for vodka. And by the way, Slavic people say the Witcher is Slavic but you know, the Americans know better.
Not going to lie, I read the books in English and the translations were pretty rough sometimes.
the word 'przepalanka' refers to the method of making it not to a burning sensation. you make przepalanka by adding carmelized (burned) sugar to vodka for sweetness and golden colour
@@alicjakempisty2729 Thank you for you explanation, but my point is still valid.
For przepalanka - wouldn't the closest US term be "moonshine"? Maybe "brandy" as a general term? I mean, a lot of these typical Slavic countryside hard liquors, like slivovice (in Czech spelling), are basically described in Engish as brandies.
@@olgapisova6207 'moonshine' is a general term for illegally made hard liquor - that's Polish 'bimber'. Brandy is made out of wine while przepalanka is made out of vodka or spirits - so brandy and przepalanka are two very different things. We may need to accept that there are some things in this world that don't exist in the English language
Before watching, I’d say the short answer is yes, and the long answer is it’s complicated. The first two books are almost entirely based on our classic myths, like a little sacrifice more being about the legend of Warsz and Sawa than the little mermaid. But with the whole saga Sapkowski was very clever in bringing together all cultures of Europe, even Nordic and Germanic with English and East Slavic. It’s why I love the books, it is a celebration of all of our culture, from the view of a Polish man who loves history and culture. Only problem is I wish Americans would stop incorrectly assuming all the stories are based on Disney fairytale. Excited to watch this one.
Yes, almost exactly what I said in the video 😁
@@FolkWalkCZ fantastic, and I agree also with what you say about Sapkowski. So many take his comments out of context, both with his thoughts on the books and the games. I don’t think his humour translates to other cultures, especially America, so he comes off rude when he is just being coy. I respect his appreciation for literature and culture.
@@ronaldood4678 I'm conflicted when it comes to Sapowski. I agree that his trolling is funny and he is a genius writer imho but outside of that he often has very idiotic takes and I'm not even sure if he understands what is so good about his own creation. That's why I never took any of his opinions on the Netflix show or the games seriously and they have no weight in my eyes.
TBF Disney was partially inspired by the Brothers Grimm versions
@@chrisdiokno5600 Disney is a caricature for all real folkroles myths, poem and storys, not only Grimm Brothers.
To me, Netflix Witcher felt like if Harry Potter was stripped away from everything that felt British.
I mean, people managed to criticise Warhorse for not making 'Kingdom Come: Deliverance' diverse enough. It follows that the very same people would try to depict Witcher as something totally non-Slavic inspired... It's fantasy, so everything goes, right? Wrong! Fantasy worlds also have their inspirations, inner consistency and themes. I love multiculturality, but *not* the type where everything is homogenised. Where, praytell, is the diversity in that?
You have a very good point here. Not about diversity, because if you think diversity is not a virtue the witcher world celebrates then you simply didn't read the books, but you are correct in raising awareness that fantasy =/= fantasy. Lotr, D&D, GoT, the Witcher - these are all distinct worlds, that have different philosophies, and the worldbuilding and the values they showcase relate differently to those ideas. Instead of realizing this, netflix writers just pick and choose elements of other worlds and put it into the show without any cohesion
@@motyovszkimiklos7538 Diversity is cool. But not the tumblr idea of it, which is actually all the same, not diverse at all.
The Witcher books are Slavic in the same way the books of Middle Earth are English.
Netflix tries to be so inclusive, also in case of the Witcher series, yet doesn't include any Slavic (or, even Polish) references or atmosphere which are so rare and not appreciated in Hollywood :) so inclusive but only for some specific social groups it seems.
Poles are "white" like all other Slavs (I mean with the main part of their blood being Slavic)
That's the problem
If Poles were African-like or Asian-like they would be the main part of the cast - that's how woke culture works
My perspective on that. I'm Polish who read the books and who lives in Poland his entire life. You can't take your own roots out off yourself. Ergo Sapkowski made Hexer Slavic to some degree even against his best wishes. He is Polish himself, so he wasn't able to get rid of his mentality and influences. Not only cultural - peasentry in Hexer is Slavic - but also flora and fauna. If you read the book you just stumble across Polish vistas again and again. For someone like me Hexer's world feels like home. I got similar feeling reading Lord off the Rings, but with that it was quite English. But it was also influenced by Robin of Sherwood tv series from the 80's. That's why Jackon's movie, or to be more specific New Zealand landscapes didn't feel right.
They dislike calling it slavic because i it's slavic then they can't coopt it for their purposes and can't gaslight fans
I did my Erasmus in Poland 12 years ago and friends I made they recommended me the books, I feel in love immediately and even when they told me the English versions lack the depth due lost in translation, it felt new and incredible original instead of a rehash of Lord of the rings so many things feel like nowadays. I'm sorry for Cavill, he seems like a great dude who likes the source material, but the show ended being mediocre and the Polish show (the Hexer) remains away better adaptation with a 1% of the budget
I’ll join all the other commenters and I’ll say this: as a Romanian both the books and the game feel 100% at home. It’s like all the fairy tales and stories my grandparents told come to life. Central and Eastern Europe definitely share a common background. I mean we are a very diverse group of people (Slavs, Germans, Latins, Gypsies, Hungarians etc), we intermingled throughout history, we coexisted, and it’s only normal we borrowed elements from each other’s cultures.
Proud to be of Slavic descendancy❤
I always laugh when I see casting for Vilgefortz and Istredd. German and Celtic named characters, played by black dude and Indian or whatever they are. Very immersive.
As Pole I couldn’t agree more, this recent show 1670 is exact example how western don’t even want to understand easterners.
How they massacred wither on Netflix is shameful.
One disclaimer about 1670, main target are Polish audiences, you need to know a loot about Poland and history to understand most of jokes. People are comparing it to the Office, but in Poland 17th century, that was full of absurdism, and was much different from 21st century Poland.
Books are very slavic (and also things from all over Europe). There is slavic mythology, names, description of countryside and it's people, and this depiction of joy in somehow depressed settings.
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes.
Prior to Netflix series coming out - or more precisely - prior to the news of the casting of the show, most people agreed that the Witcher had indeed Slavic spirit and themes. As soon as the information from the Netflix series started to pop up, more and more people started appearing on social media (Twitter, Reddit, TH-cam etc.) claiming that there isn't and never was anything Slavic about the source material.
My personal opinion is that these claims and the people behind them were part of the attempted intersectional takeover of the Witcher fandom, which had happened to many other franchises prior to Witcher. Despite the activists making a lot of noise on social media, this takeover ultimately failed. Witcher - regardless of the games' huge success - was and remains a niche thing. Netflix and the activists supporting them had success in subverting the book characters at first, but as soon as they got to fan favorite characters from the games, they lost most of the fandom. Henry Cavill quitting the show woke up anyone who remained ignorant.
As many other franchises have learned the hard way, woke activists do not bring money with them. They are like a locust swarm, jumping from IP to IP destroying them in the process.
I'm not sure if it was just activists claiming that there's nothing Slavic about The Witcher books. Perhaps to some extent but I think that a lot of people just desperately wanted to defend the show. I don't know how much people remember this but when the show was still considered as good by the majority of the fandom you couldn't say one bad word about Netflix or else people would pile on you. There is a youtuber called Proper Bird who was a big fan of The Witcher books and when she said that she doesn't like the show because it's not a good adaptation people drove her out of the fandom. There was so much toxicity back then and I've seen people use the most pathetic arguments just to defend the show (like for example that The Witcher books were never really that good and Netflix made it better).
@@FolkWalkCZ You are correct, there were/are other people outside of the activists who make similar claims about the Witcher. I'd argue that their opinions aren't rooted in ideology, as is with the activists.
You are also correct that most of the "normie" fans were all on board on what ever Netflix did at first. What happened to Proper Bird is infuriating as it is heartbreaking. I used to watch her lore videos all the time.
'Prior to Netflix series coming out - or more precisely - prior to the news of the casting of the show, most people agreed that the Witcher had indeed Slavic spirit and themes.' On the contrary, at least in Poland.
henry cavill is the least slavic looking man who ever lived lmao, i'm sick of this "netflix witcher is shit but HENRY IS SO GOOD!" argument because henry is absolutely part of the problem. all he had to do was look over the scripts, say "no thanks" and the show would likely not even exist.
Let's get one thing out of the way: the show IS dogshit, and it keeps getting worse. But what you are saying is completely delusional. To think that there is a "deliberate attempted interstectional takeover of fandoms by woke activists" is fucking unhinged. This is straight up the conspiracy theorist mindset, next thing you are gonna say is that the goverment is trying to put microchips into us with vaccines... Anyways, what's more in line with reality, is that, believe it or not, these "woke people" (whatever the fuck that means) love the witcher or these other fandoms too. However, they might love it for different reasons, or in a different way (the witcher is the wokest, most progressive fantasy books i ever read by the way). The real problem is that netflix assembled a team of shit writers, or to give them the benefit of the doubt, a team of writers that weren't the best fit to properly adapt this series. I think it's completely fine to discuss bringing their perspective into the screen adaptation, beacuse after all, as i said, the witcher is a progressive story, but that's not ALL it is, and it feels like they didn't have enough people on the writing team who recognized the other great things about the story too. Now why is this? We will never know. Is it possible that in the current climate of media, the importance of inclusion overshadows all else and it leads to unfortunate cases like this? Could be possible. And even as a progressive person, who doesn't scream at their TV when they see a black actori, I'm not happy either if this is the case. However, you are distorting reality if you think there is an evil cabal of feminists plotting to opress us. As someone else pointed it out here, Henry Cavill should never have accepted Geralt's role either, we just gave him a pass because he is a gamer and an overall nice person, who radiates enthusiasm. But neither of those things made him a good Geralt (the dogshit writing of Gerals's character didn't help either tho).
Oh and as a bonus, you keep repeating this line that woke means broke or whatever, when these woke people made this one of the most watched series on netflix ever. Again, stop distorting reality, you are doing a disservice to yourself. Yeah it's probably gonna fall off but 90M+ and 60M+ views on the first 2 seasons couldn't be farther from broke. And I'm the first person to say they didn't deserve a dozen views either, but it's still the reality.
From scandinavia. As alot of ppl already mentioned, the witcher feels more like home then traditional western fantasy. But my first tought on what makes witcher slavic i would say this. In Scandinavia the rule for our folklore is dont go into the woods. Everything in the woods will kill you. if you are in the woods, dont disturb anything, dont take anything, If you hear something in the woods then you never walk towards it. We wouldnt use a term like monster do describe anything in our folklore, the word spirits is closer to what we call our creatures. Not even for something like a troll would we use the term monster.
Creatures from slavic folklore manifests from a person doing something bad and the creature appearing from the body. For instance the Rusalka. In slavic folklore its a woman thats been drowned by a man, but the "positive" thing about the rusalka is that she can be redeemed trough various ways. Going trough the monster-index for the witcher these two things appear alot. Something bad accured and created the creature, and there is a way to save the person who became the creature.
Imo that clearly indicates that the witcher is slavic.
When it comes to language, the Slavicness of the Witcher also shines through. I speak Russian, Czech and understand Polish. All three games go perfectly with any one of those languages. The names, the tone, and the overall vibe fits. The same goes for the books. When read in any of those languages, everything falls into place. The show, sounds as good in Russian as LOTR or ROP. Meaning not good. There, English is the medium and the voices, vibe and feel are made to fit it.
Yeah, the language is a huge part as well. Playing The Witcher 1 with Czech voiceovers (which were made only for the first game unfortunately) feels so right and playing the other 2 games in English is just isn't as good. I need to play them with the original Polish voiceovers sometimes.
I need to tell you, The Witcher 1, which had Hungarian dub too, also worked very well! Even it is a totally different language, some elements, or humor, swearing was on the point. (To be fair tho, the studio had some mistakes, but it wasn't on the actors or the language itself)
(if any Hungarian came here to read, no, the "Halottizék" was totally perfect translate in the context, can't change my mind)
@@KisDre Mikor kijött a Witcher 1, 18 éves voltam és bár már akkor is tökéletesen beszéltem és értettem angolul, egyszerűen jól esett az anyanyelvemen játszani egy RPG-t, mégha a szinkron nem is volt tökéletes, sokat adott a hangulathoz, mert Magyarországon is vannak Sapkowski féle vidékek, voltam már Lengyelországban párszor és néhol az épületek és az európai táj teljesen "magyarosnak" hatott.
@@FolkWalkCZ I've recently downloaded the Polish voiceovers and I fell in love with the games all over again. Polish dabbing and Czech subtitles are the best way I can enjoy it since I don't understand Polish (I am Slovak).
Its only been a year since I read the books for the first time. Thank you for inspiring me to re-read them, and yes books are Slavic and will always be Slavic, no matter what Westerners say.
As a Dutch person the Witcher books are a breath of fresh air. They definitely have an Eastern European way of looking at the world. I just love that Dutch names for places, people and monsters were used. It feels good because my culture gets overshadowed by German and English and Scandinavian naming practices. A shame that the English-speaking adaptations of the works never bothered to pronounce them properly. Sapkowski captured a more general European folklore instead of a Tolkien's Anglo centric mildly Germanic one and it makes me as someone from a smaller culture feel immersed in Sapkowski books. As for your point about the rural peoples in the books, I recognize the mentality in the Dutch countryside too but a lesser extent which might add to it why I like them so much.
If we define Eastern Europe to be Russia, Belarus and Ukraine personally I wouldn't say the books are Eastern European. They definitely have the spirit of Central Europe: The holy Roman Empire with its many squabbling kingdoms, Moravia and Bohemia and Poland with their urbanized trading industrial cities and rural poor countryside. It all points to this region of Europe. In true Eastern Europe power was very centralized and the contrasts between the cities and villages wasn't as stark as in central europe.
A long time ago, when I read a little about the fairy tales of Eastern and Western Europe, the simplest (I know it's very simplified) distinction was that in Western fairy tales, the hero went somewhere far away to meet a fairy, an elf or a mermaid. However, in Eastern fairy tales, the hero lived in a village or a small housing estate and discovered that his neighbor on the left was a werewolf and on the right a witch. Personally, I feel more the latter atmosphere, when the Witcher simply encounters various mythological creatures without going on a particularly long journey, but only wandering around the area.
The names, the landscapes, the customs, the people (common folk, beacause the aristocracy is the same everywhere :), the legends, the monsters and magical creatures, generally the whole atmosphere - although Sapkowski considered himself a cosmopolitan and expert in Arthurian legends and was distanced himself from the Polishness or Slavicness - still they show up everywhere.
I'm from Kazakhstan. Our country was heavily influenced by slavic culture since The Russian Empire and to this day and age.
And I can say for sure that Witcher is slavic. There are so much details in it that is unique to slavs, from how the characters talk and act, to the names of the monsters and locations.
I can't even describe it properly. You just have to be familiar with that culture for a long time to get what I mean.
Except Russians are not Slavs.
@@TheRezro Really? Who are they, then? Which bullshit do you believe in more, in the Mongol-Asiatic origin of the Russians, or in the Fino-Ugric origin?
@@ИмяФамилия-н5ь2б For the starters Muscovy, didn't call themselves Russians until 18'th century. When change was internally enforced by German Tzars.
Previously madman Ivan the Terible proclaimed himself as "Cezar of All-Rus and Third Rome". What was cope, as he didn't control either of those lands. And Tzarom collapsed directly after (smuta).
Mongol Empire of which they are spiritual and political successor, was a multi-ethnic state, powered by conquest and oppression. The entity what control Muscovy was specifically the tatar Golden Orde. Origin of Russia is not a secret, or that it is country of hundred conquered nations.
Your projections based on hurt pride, are not relevant to well know historical knowledge. In fact name itself was stolen. And the funniest part is that you are in denial even when Russian Army is commanded by Tuvan Shoigu Khan.
@@TheRezro Who cares what the state was called, and what does that have to do with my question, whether Russians are Slavs? Funny, but even in this you are wrong, for the first time Russia began to be called so not from the 18th century, but from the 16th century under Ivan the Terrible, further that Mongolia is the spiritual and political successor of Russia, where did you get this nonsense? The Russians were a nomadic people like the Mongols? Or their ruler was elected as it was with the Mongols? What exactly political practices were adopted by the Russian state that were peculiar to the Mongols, and not peculiar to the Russians before? I think you're just making up nonsense trying to stretch facts onto your narrative, nothing more. Who stole what from whom? What does this have to do with Shoigu? And what does this have to do with the question of why Russians are not Slavs? Which you still didn't answer.
@@ИмяФамилия-н5ь2б Quote: "Funny, but even in this you are wrong, for the first time Russia began to be called so not from the 18th century, but from the 16th century under Ivan the Terrible"
And I said:
"Previously madman Ivan the Terible proclaimed himself as "Cezar of All-Rus and Third Rome"
So do you really can't read with comprehension?
"The Russians were a nomadic people like the Mongols?"
Yes. Huge hunk of modern Russians are still nomadic or half-settled. There is a reason why 1/4 of Russians have no toilet. What is not what my argument was. I was referring to culture of murder and conquest, what is currently done in Ukraine and previously in Georgia and Ishkaria. Russia start a war, literally each decade. Because that is how nomadic invaders roll.
"What exactly political practices were adopted by the Russian state that were peculiar to the Mongols, and not peculiar to the Russians before?"
If you would be a Slav, you would know. Slavs never were conquerors. Those were people of the farmlands. Who never actually move outside they lands from time of the Romans.
"I think you're just making up nonsense trying to stretch facts onto your narrative, nothing more"
Say a person who deny archaeological evidence.
"Who stole what from whom?"
From actual Russians. That is also true cause of war with Ukraine.
th-cam.com/video/B6b7WQy1Y3Q/w-d-xo.html
"What does this have to do with Shoigu?"
Seriously. Iwan. Google what Tuva is. See what majority of Russia actually look like. If you can't even that, then there is no point in this debate.
americans always talk about diversity but its always just different colours of americans
You made some really good points. I'm not a huge Witcher fan (I only read the short stories), but I definitely experienced what you're talking about while playing Kingdom Come: Deliverance. I'm from Poland, my hometown is situated in the mountains, close to the forest. Just a 20-minute drive from the Czech border. Playing KCD made me feel nostalgic and homesick. The forests and fields in the game give me such a similar vibe to what my region looks like. Yes, it's quite close to the Czech Republic, so that could be the reason, but I think it's more than that. I love that game for its peaceful and soothing atmosphere and how much at home it makes me feel.
It's good that the developers didn't bow to the pressure to make the game more Western. I remember them getting attacked on Twitter for that. Personally, I would love to see more products like this, products that are not ashamed of being inspired by Slavic culture.
Btw, I hope one day you'll make a video about KCD :)
In my opinion, Slavic elements were making Witcher games unique. Without it, Netflix's Witcher is just another typical western fantasy. Nothing makes it stand out. You can show it to someone who never heared about Witcher and say that's the new episode of Game of Thrones. Look at Rings of Power: when you'll ignore things that never been an official part of Tolkien's world like black elfs etc, you'll notice that Amazon's show looks very similar to the Middle Earth known from Lord of the Rings movies. This universe has an unique style and just by looking at specific location's architecture, you can say that it's part of Tolkien's world. In Witcher's case, without Slavic vibe, it can be anything. GoT, Eragon, anything. If I'm looking for a new universe, I expect to see something new. Something with own, separate culture. When you'll remove elements of culture unique for specific creation and add people of every colors ignoring the fact that, for example, there was almost no black people in medieval Europe, it won't be medieval Europe anymore. Modern Hollywood is so focussed on representation that they seem to ignore fact that their decisions are erasing elements that were always making specificworld what it always was.
Many people became interested in the game world of The Witcher precisely because this universe showed them a culture that was alien to them. In the series, this world was stripped of its Slavic character in favor of being universal. The problem is that a large part of the audience does not want to see themselves and elements of the world around them in this series. They want to experience something that is new and (in the case of people from outside Slavic countries) foreign.
I would say its Polish most of all. Countess anchors to Polish traditions, customs, culture, even modern. Some of it gets lost in translation. But the appealing to Slavic legends is also very noticeable.
It's such a shame with Netflix production as this series could introduce Slavic folklore to even broader audience than the Witcher games did. Especially W3. So many people of all races, cultures loved the atmosphere and lore. Me as a Slavic guy appreciated this enormously. I mean we, Slavs, have such an interesting lore which is mostly unknown to the world, huge potential. Honestly, what a shame and disappointment
Americans in general have really no idea about Slavic culture aside from Communism or Gopnik memes.
I don't even watch this video but i can answer you that YES they are Polish ( Slavic ) because author is Polish and he wrote about Polish legends and folklore that even my grandparents told me when i was much younger, some of this folklore is very similar in Slovakia, Slovenia and Moldavia with little changes
100% true. Often when foreigners judge these things they lack the context of these Folklores because they have never heard them living in their own country. its just a lack of knowledge.
@@nicechock And context.
For me the books were 100 % Slavic because of the humor and character depictions. It's Slavic all the way, you can't mistake it if you know the humor and know many people from different Slavic cultures. I can see it so clearly as a person from another culture (I probably couldn't see the Finnish-ness of something because I'm Finnish). Geralt's wry humor, the greasy statesmen/officiers, the sarcastic female characters... Yup, you wouldn't all get that from a German, French or English fantasy.
Great video as always. I started the books while playing Witcher 1 (after playing Witcher 2) and truly i felt that the first Witcher game that CDPR made was the closest to the books because it's enchanting Slavic atmosphere, and even after playing Witcher 3 i haven't changed my mind. Like others have said before, the books are defiantly Slavic and medieval European influenced in general, and it's laughable and sad at the same time what Netflix has done to the lore and atmosphere of the books in comparison to CDPR! You can just see it in the thumbnail of this video that you put, where you have Netflix version of Yennefer wear an Indian style dress, and the actress in an interview proudly say they got lots of Indian influences to develop that side to Yennefer! To be honest i am so mad at how Netflix botched the world of the Witcher books and it's characters, and I am not Slavic nor European btw, so i can imagine how Polish and Slavic fans would feel disrespected after what we got from the show.
Thank you for these words, I'm Polish and the books have been with me since my early teen years, I've read them ~7 times or so. Seeing what netflix has done to this remarkable novel makes me deeply sad, it's always crushing to see a beautiful thing being mindlessly battered without second thought.
@@Michal235 You're very welcome, Michal. And thank you for sharing your experience. I can feel what you're saying, after falling in love with these books it's a dream for me to visit you're beautiful country, and especially see the country side of Poland. And i agree with you that it's sad indeed what is being done to classic pieces of art like these books or others (like LOTR), but they will never take away what these books mean to us no matter how they try to butcher it.
I'm also Indian. Yennefer is not an Indian character originally so I find the actress to be quite narcissistic and wanting to take over the character instead of doing her job and trying to remain true to her. Probably why Henry was beloved because he wanted to stay true and do the character justice unlike her. Hell I don't even consider the Netflix one to be Yen.
@@FNownATzz I agree. I think it's narcissistic of the writers firstly to try and change characters they did not write themselves to began with. I as well do NOT consider Netflix Yennefer to be her true book character. And not just her, almost all the characters exist in the show by having the same names only!
Im slovenian and i always felt like the happenings in the books moved around the slavic(east) part of europe. I mean come on. Maribor? Novigrad? These are real cities. And i remember being so emotional when reading the štriga (striga.?) Story because holy crap that was my folklore!! Also you can just see it in the temperament of the characters. Reading the books felt like dealing with my damn family.
True. Just like in Tolkien's and C.S Lewis's books there are references to English places.
I am Polish and I feel that these books represent the historical spirit of Central Europe more than anything. The mythology is taken from various sources, not only Slavic mythology, and
the landscapes are comprised of the urbanized / industrial trading cities, the poor villages, the politics of the kings and the lack of centralization. As opposed to eastern or western europe, Central Europe had multiple small kingdoms (when we're talking about the Holy Roman Empire) and really strong independent nobility (in case of Poland) who also created their own independent semi kingdoms.
wow. i didn't know that the Witcher is called not Slavic in the West. unbelievable. if Westerners indeed say it, then, it is a blatant case of culture appropriation.
i'm Russian, i've read the Witcher in my school years, and it has become the foundational book for me, explained a lot of things in life, values, and not for me only, i know a plenty of people who see Sapkovski's books the same way. after the Witcher, i'm no longer able to read or watch other fantasy books or movies.
the Witcher 1 is the closest to the books, intonations, nuances, undertones - it made me feel like i'm back in my home village.
It's not just Westerners, I've seen people even from Poland or my country say that. I think that they don't like the idea of The Witcher being this sort of "patriotic" fantasy which represents our culture and I'm not saying that The Witcher is that. As I said in the video it's just one of the many aspects in The Witcher. But it seems to me that these people view it this way that when someone calls The Witcher Slavic it's because of patriotism and turboslavism.
Ahoi brat! I perfectly agree with everything you said here!! I am Hungarian, while my mother was born in Slovakia but I grew up in Germany, where my parents moved to. Right now I live in Hungary again, because I just love this connection to nature and simplicity. To me not just the Hungarian, but also the Slavic atmosphere has something VERRY special about it.
I grew up watching Czech fairytales, which are the best fairytales ever, exactly because of it's atmosphere and fairytale-vibe. I did watch American and German things as well, but never had the same feeling like with the Slavic ones. As a Hungarian born in Germany I also always loved Slavic folk music.
I have been to Canada and USA as well, and I don't want to insult anyone, but it felt culturaly verry shalow. And like you said as well, american fantasy has always to be bombastic and overly fantastic over there. But I'm sure, that even many Americans would love to see and feel, what we were fortunate to grow up with.
Nicely put 🙂
Yes, very much this. Not the mythology or some creatures, but these very subtle things is what I think of when I think about the "slavic" element of the Witcher and when we are talking about the game, they even somehow got the weather and nature "slavic". Idk what it is, but just being on a road and walking through some of the forests in that game feels like this could be somewhere near me.
.... and then there's Toussaint 😂
@@kuku_rydza ... yeah, and then there's Toussaint.
I saw this being discussed a lot on reddit, and I agree with you that there was no satisfying conclusive answer. So I really enjoyed your video. I might add that similar to how people in Germany are constantly trying to dig up Germanic roots, and identity, and the truth is that Europe was never as isolated and rigid as people make it out to be. Even in the early middle ages and before, Slavs, Germans, Norse, Magyars, Etruscans, Latins, Greeks, Macedonians and Celts were mixing, invading each other, trading and fighting in each others wars as auxiliaries, and mercenaries.
That doesn't mean that there are not distinct identities that are difficult to pinpoint, especially in Products of that culture 2 000 years later. When I read the books I recognized the German fairytales and the Arthurian legends, the creatures of Anglo-Saxon origin (Tolkienian) but there was plenty of smaller elements that I was not familiar with and that I interpreted as distinct eastern European.
In the end, what made the books feel 100% Slavic, was the tone and how Sapkowski looked at these intertwined folk tales, there is a purity in it, modesty, deep rootedness, not taking these tropes and stories as serious, while still giving them love and spinning them, is what makes them Slavic to me.
I've always thought the same, though you explained it way better than how I did.
Most of the costumes in the Witcher tv series didn't feel Slavic in the slightest, they felt like American high fantasy try hard style, it really bothered me
Yeah, I hate it too. I want to make a video about it at some point.
The first season was missing a couple of things. The other seasons are missing everything.
I think the descriptions of the countryside in the books are definitely Slavic/Eastern European inspired. Part of the reason why I loved the Witcher so much because a lot of those things seemed familiar in a way.
Also possibly the reason why the Witcher 1 was so atmospheric, they nailed the setting.
Thank you for making this video. I think you expressed this very well. I’m Czech American, and I grew up in a traditional Czech community in Texas. I was looking forward to the Netflix Witcher, only to be left very disappointed. I was hoping to see people like me and my community in the series and see scenes like those typical of Central Europe, only to be disappointed by a woke production. Holywood seems to want to represent everyone in the world aside from Slavs and other Central and Eastern Europeans. I don’t think there is even a single Slavic person in Netflix’s Witcher cast.
Thanks 🙂 Nice! Let me know if you would ever want to talk more. I would love to get to know someone from the US with Czech roots.
I am part Czech as well and was also really disappointed in the Netflix series. The creators were more interested in making their own topical woke diversity instead of actually celebrating Slavic culture and myths. On a side note Vrazel's Polka Band is legit.
there is one polish actor at the beginning but he dies like two minutes into the series so... he's the knight that helps Ciri escape Cintra during the attack, i think he got hit by an arrow or sth
@@tomatosoup8128 Yeah, he's killed by Cahir.
My father is Czech and he used to read me the withcher books when I was younger.
As a dress historian and seamstress, my hopes were to see a more Easter European inspired wardrobe.
Instead, season one gave us generic "fantasy" clothes and later seasons didn't even try to achieve that.
I think its more of the issue that to an extent even now, many people think of Medieval villages as these like, rather ramshackle, poverty stricken, dirty places
That too 🙂
@@FolkWalkCZAnd if you read history books you will learn that fate of peasants became wirse and worse thoughout history up to mechanisation era. But even today a lot of people hired in agriculture are treated just awful. I mean those seasonal workers in Italy and Spain hired in black so you cannot even call ambulance if sun stoke happens so they die
Kingdom come is perfect depiction of medieval village life.
Yes.
I've read the books long before i played the games and the slavic flavour was always obvious.
Your point on Dol Blathana when I read of it in the book I thought of the Tarta Mountains in Poland...not the Canary Islands like in the show.
I'm a Pole myself, so my opinion might be biased.
However, I think some people don't consider The Witcher to be slavic because it isn't explicitly and directly taking from slavic mythology. What I mean is, there's very few direct references to slavic legendarium - there's no stand-ins for Triglav, Raróg and there's no Płanetnicy running around.
The 'slavic-ness' or even more specifically the 'polish-ness' if you forgive my choice of made-up words, of Witcher comes from a completely different dimension, which is how the narrator and protagonists see the world.
I would even argue that Geralt is *the* archetypical polish man. Grumpy and presenting himself as emotionless, while also displaying traits of heroism, familiality and charity. I'd say this contrast of how we present ourselves as cynical, devoid of emotion and perpetually unhappy (queue the 'smiles in polish' meme) and what values we have is the ultimate key to understanding polish culture.
There's also the matter of how polish fairytales were written, compared to the rest of Europe. When you read the Witcher short stories you will immediately recognize that they are influenced by western european tales (Beauty and the Beast, Hansel and Gretel, Andersen's Queen of Ice etc.) BUT if you don't know polish folk tales, you will miss how those tales as presented in the Witcher will have their endings changed to fit the morals not of western european, but of polish folktales (Szewczyk Dratewko, The Peasant and the Devil, Pan Twardowski etc.).
That signifies very clearly how the entire Witcher series is inherently seen through slavic lenses but the story itself isn't necessarily overtly slavic.
I have to disagree on "nobody is saying that the books are only Slavic". Plenty of people said that but on Polish Internet. This is why this argument is non-existing in English discourse about Witcher. But I had to disagree on how Netflix portrayed that universe even more. It feels like they threw out not only the Slavic influences but also all other folk influences as well.
I'm really disappointed about the Witcher Tv show. I loved the Witcher 3 game and I thought ''hazaaaaa, finally a cool peace of Slavic themed fantasy''. I was perhaps hoping to see at least some of that in the Tv series, but alas no.
As Slavs we had one peace of media that got some international recognition and clout, but I guess that was one too many, because Americans need more representation you see. They also had to black wash the cast too. They done too much white washing in the past so now they need to make up for their previous racism, with more racism...? And what better way to pay the reparations you owe than with someone else's cash!
Amazing video! The polish TV series and video games nailed the slavic book atmosphere
Thank you 🙂
People are weird, it's just that. Sometimes you gotta ignore other people for your own sanity! Still glad you're making these videos though, but don't be angry because of people!
Yeah, I'm slowly learning that 😃 Thanks 🙂
In order for people to understand the different views of Central and Eastern Europeans and stories, it is necessary to look at some well-known fairy tales and see them in a "Slavic" version. As a rule, they are much more mature and darker. I recommend well-known stories - they are also on YT - such as 1. Cinderella - Tři oříšky pro Popelku (ENG subs) 2. Beaty and Beast - Panna a netvor (Beauty And The Beast 1978 English sub) 3.The Little Mermaid - Malá Morská Víla (The Little Mermaid) w Eng Sub (1976).
I chose old Czechoslovak fairy tales because I am Slovak and I know them well. There are certainly Polish, Russian and other versions as well but these 3 stories will give you the best idea. The first story is cheerful and romantic, the second is slightly horror and the third is sadly melancholic.
I am Bulgarian and must say the first two books are "Slavic" as it can get, the myths and legends, character names and behavior etc. But after the short stories are over and the main plot thickens( Book 3) they are more "Diverse"... We can see inspirations from old Germanic/Saxon tales and even Nordic but in the core its slavic sadly if you read the books in English many things are translated incorectly and loosing their meaning i read the books 3 times (Once in every language i can read) English, Polish and Bulgarian and yes sadly reading it with English translations is very misleading this is where some of the confusion may come.
that's so fascinating. I never thought of how much can get lost in translations. The only example that comes to my mind is how the show used so much "f*ck" and comparing it to our polish swearwords it just felt boring. I know that it might sound stupid, but swearwords are a huge part of our culture and if used correctly, they can be so funny and imaginative. I wonder what other "flavors" might have been lost in translation.
(I am German) I also bought them digitally and read them in English. I'll definitely buy them again (physical this time) and in German. I've read that basically every translation is better than the English ones.
I read them only in English and I felt that the text didn't flow very well, I should read the new Slovene translation.
@@valentintapata2268 Yep... I mean the English translation is okay but there is way to many Cyrillic words that cannot be translated accurately and still keeping the same meaning. (I know modern Polish is more influenced by Latin not Cyrillic i was speaking about the Bulgarian translation ^^)
Минало е доста време откакто прочетох сетихте и малко съм ги позабравил, но наистина се усещат като източноевропейски книги
As a russian who read the books Years ago i felt so disappointed by the netflix prodution bc it felt souless, which the witcher never is. Saying that the witcher isnt slavic is geting rid of the whole point which is the world is harsh and cruel but you dont have to be. Fuck netflix for robbing me of the feeling of contentment i felt reading the books while at my dacha 100 kms from st Petersburg. Btw it looks exactly like the country side in witcher 3 and i love that!
Also well when you read book, world around is made by your imagination. So it is based more or less on your way things should look like. If you are not familiar with slavic culture you wont see it as much it in there. Im polish, so I imigined Sapkowski world as a slavic land from the start since this is what I imagine when I think about medival culture. Any reference to slavic culture was amplified, while maybe for someone from usa for an exaple maybe it was subdue.
Well said, brother.
Swedish here and from the get go, the books felt Slavic as fuck. From the usage of titles like voivode, to the folklore (especially the first vampire we meet), the dialogue... to me, this really just felt Slavic. Sure, Sapkowski's Elves are heavily influenced by Irish (Celtic?) tropes and naming convention, and the final book is very Arthurian, but the setting remained true to the original presentation throughout.
yes they are and changing anything for "modern audience" ruins the whole thing
if you can't even imagine a place that is NOT politically correct then you already are touching wrong books
I feel that the atmosphere in the books (and the first game) is more on the side western catholic slavic. The northern realms have this HRE vibe to it (in the Czech version of the books, many professions are described in german terms as it would be here in the middle-ages). The third game on the other hand went all in to the pegan eastern slavic vibe in the terms of music and some monsters (there are no leshen in the western slavic folklore as far as I know). Both is cool tho I prefer the former. It hits closer to home for me.
I think that there are Leshens in our folklore as well if I'm not mistaken. But they are definitely mentioned in The Witcher books so it's not something that CDPR invented. I noticed that people often think that these Slavic monsters are something that CDPR have put in the world of The Witcher as something new and it was their idea but a lot of the monsters are mentioned in the books. It's just easy to miss if you're not paying attention to it. For example I noticed only recently that there are wodniks.
I can't speak for Czech, but Leshy was definitely part of Polish folklore, as personification of the forest. Maybe his other names are somewhere in Czech folklore, like Borowy, Gajowy, Leśnik, Leśny Dziad (Old man of the forest), Wilczy Pasterz (wolf shepherd).
What gets lost in translation is that Sapkowski wrote a lot of the dialogues in the books in an idiolect that involves some archaic and regional words which make them sound very Slavic to Polish readers.
We have that too in the Czech translation to some extent. For example dwarfs speak in this combination of dialects from very rural reagions in our country and they sound even funnier because of it 😁 And a lot of Slavic words from the Polish original made it into our Czech translation because we have either same words or words which are very similar.
Thank you for saying that.
I am Russian. When I read Witcher for the first time, I had a distinctive feeling that Witcher is set in a Slavic environment. It's wasn't about folklore or the setting itself. It was more about the characters and how they interacted with each other. It was long ago since I read Witcher, so I cannot go in depth right now as to what exactly caused such perception. But I do remember this feeling of familiarity which took me off-guard, since I am so used to fantasy setting being explored from a "western" perspective. I remember that the best part for me was the friendship between Dandelion and Geralt. It felt so... Casual and natural. And all so familiar how I acted with my Slavic friends! It's so hard to explain since such things lay in nuances rather than the surface level. How do you explain the difference between the English and Russian way of conducting friendships? It's generally the same concept, but much different in details...
So goes for Witcher: it's set in a fantasy setting familiar to all, but it has many details that give it a distinct Slavic flavour.
witcher 1 was my introduction. i was mesmerized by the atmosphere and music.
1670 isn't documentary, it's more of a satire that takes current Polish society and culture and takes us into the "timetravel" that is suppoused to make fun of our reality, using the past and making it look like ours.
I know, I said mockumentary (like The Office for example) 🙂
@@FolkWalkCZ Sorry didn't hear that "mock" maybe video was too quiet
@@division3139 Yeah, or my pronunciation is shit 😃 I need to get better at both.
That comparison with Tolkien's world is spot on !
This video is really interesting! You have certainly decisively answered those questions.
I live on the other side of the planet and would like to know: What does "central Europe" include? Some people think it includes Germany. Others say no, central Europe means "Slavic" countries by which they seem to mean "Eastern Europe" as in everything that was east of the Iron Curtain (excluding East Germany).
We studied the history of Western Europe (Cold War definition), but I honestly have no idea how similar (or not) medieval and Enlightenment German culture was to Polish or Czech. We only studied the countries as far as they were important in world history, such as Portugal and Spain, then France and Britain, and Germany was sprinkled in between there as needed. We didn't learn anything about Scandinavia or anything east or south of Germany, except a little bit about the empires of Austria-Hungary, Russia and the Ottomans.
It seems the further east, the more people were oppressed, referring specifically to the latter two empires.
Are there any books or videos you can recommend to help me learn more about the histories of current countries east of Germany?
Thank you very much for the video! 🙏🎄⛄️🎁✨
Wow, first of all thank you for the nice comment 🙂 Now to your questions. Regarding central Europe, by that I mean countries like Austria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia and Switzerland. My country is in the middle of these and is often called heart of Europe here because of that. Only some of these countries are Slavic obviously, I'm not saying that central Europe is Slavic. But there is a blend in our cultures between Slavic countries like Poland and Czech Republic and our Germanic neighbours from Germany and Austria. We have similar culture and customs so they usually understand the "Slavic" aspect of The Witcher better than someone from more distant country. Slavic countries have usually very similar culture even if they're far away from each other. For example I've made this video ( th-cam.com/video/_mRBXZRDvFg/w-d-xo.htmlsi=RTsOlyhhQO2DJLZ_ ) about our custom of burning and drowning of Morana which is celebrated here in Czech Republic and also in Poland, Slovakia and probably few other Slavic countries. And then there's Maslenitsa which is a very similar custom celebrated in Slavic countries like Ukraine, Belarus and Russia. That's why I keep saying "central Europe and Slavic countries" in the video because countries in central Europe usually understand the culture of the neighbouring countries thanks to their proximity and similarity to their culture and Slavic countries understand the culture of other Slavic countries because we share the same roots and that's why our culture is so similar.
In terms of your question about history of our countries I'm afraid I can't be much of service because I don't watch any channels focused on history so I don't know if there are any that would cover the history of our countries. I was thinking about maybe one day doing video series about the history of our country and the early legends about the foundation of our country. But I'm not a historian so I'm not sure if I'm the best person for the job.
@@FolkWalkCZThank you very much for such a prompt and thorough reply! Your explanation of "central Europe" makes a lot of sense.
I looked up Maslenitsa then watched your very informative video to which you provided the link: "Burning and drowning of Morana - Czech and Slavic tradition explained." Wow!
I have never heard of these customs so the burning and/or drowning of a female effigy of winter is very new to me. (I bet feminists would have a few things to say about that lol)
I'll take a look for some history videos and let you know!
Merry Christmas! 🙏🎄🦌⛄️🎁💫
Frankly when it comes to Middle Ages to Enlightment period I see it the other way around. The more you move to west the more burnings of witches.
have you watched the actual Polish TV series Wiedzmin? that awkward moment when an old and grayish TV series looks way better than the posh Netflix adaptation.
Yeah, we just recorded video about it with a friend.
Cheers from a fellow Czech content creator. One of the best arguments I found to shut up these people is to point out the name of the greatest city in Witcher world, Novigrad. You know, like NOVGOROD!!! The Great city of Kievan Rus!!! I mean, even the name Novigrad ffs!!!
It looks to me, that North represents Slavic lands, combination of Rus/Poland/Baltic where the Mongol invasions never happened. Nilfgaard seems German /Dutch to me and Toussaint is obviously southern France and Skelige are obviously Vikings/Scandinavians.
P. S. I burst out laughing when I heard you say CD Project red in the Czech pronunciation. Cé Dé. 😁😁😁 Czenglish for ever. 😁
Děkuji za skvělé video, jsem moc rád, ze mi jej TH-cam naservíroval až pod nos. 😁 Samozřejmě jsem se přihlásil k odběru a budu se těšit na další kousek! 😁
What is more Slavic than dark fantasy written in Sapkowski's style? :) But I must admit the world in the books is a merge of eastern and western European culture tropes. For me when I read it I often feel like being in a mediaval Silesia, western or southern Poland or Bohemia. It is also quite obvious that the Slavic element is more natural for the author to emulate than other elements. The example of common folk is a good one, but also there is also the whole Kindgom of Redania resembling a medieval Slavic kingdom or duchy.
How I would characterize it: Slavic elements are more western Slavic than eastern Slavic and I think that these eastern elements have been mostly added in the CDPR games. Maybe that is why there is a confusion. For most of the people from other parts of the world it is probably impossible to tell the difference. They see huts in the swampy woods - that is Slavic and they see castles and knights and it is French, English or German :)
Poles have badass folklore. Part Slavs, part vikings, thats why I love Witcher so much
Firstly: I read the books (I am German, but I read them in English; I think I'll buy them again physical and German) and I agree with you; the pages ooze Eastern European, though I couldn't quite point it out. I am not much of a reviewer, so beyond saying "it feels Eastern" is hard for me. But you put well into words why it is indeed slavic.
Secondly: That is why I, and many others, say: gatekeep the tourists. Gatekeep your hobby.
An unguarded gate is worthless and anyone can come in; you don't want that. And don't get guilt-tripped if they say "you exclude people". If people truly wish to join in on the fun, they'll make an effort and show interest, ask questions, etc. and not try to change it to their needs.
(I am aware gatekeeping is somewhat offtopic, but a commenter mentioned that after Netflix announced the show, people sprouted out of the woodwork on social media, claiming TW isn't slavic. That is why I mention it. Those are the ones that need to be gatekept.)
Thank you for your work and I look forward to your podcast format.
If we define Eastern Europe to be Russia, Belarus and Ukraine personally I wouldn't say the books are Eastern European. They definitely have the spirit of Central Europe: The holy Roman Empire with its many squabbling kingdoms, Moravia and Bohemia and Poland with their urbanized trading industrial cities and rural poor countryside. It all points to this region of Europe. In true Eastern Europe power was very centralized and the contrasts between the cities and villages wasn't as stark as in central europe.
Will you do a video about 1670? My favorite Polish film since 90s.
I don't know, maybe.
Sapkowski is from Poland (Silesian region) Silesia is Slavic country. His books are from slavish perspective. I am big fan of his books Witcher and Reinmar von Bielaw.
they are Definity inspired by slavic mythology
Great video dude, really gives me good feel why i felt wierd about the potrayal of Netflix's ' The Witcher'.
To me, stating that the Witcher is just slavic is as reductive as saying, it's mostly inspired by western folk tales. It's just both. Sapkowski heavly references arthurians myths, celtic gods, german folk tales. But yeah, the vibe of countryside, the morality of the characters, how they talk - this is slavic af imo, so thanks for showing that. Also, the whole conflict between elves and humans feels like endless conflict on borderlands between slavic countries on 'who was there first', even though all of people there living are, even if of distincitve cultures, are sort of related and should not work to erase one another (I hope it makes sense).
Anyways, I feel like saying it's just slavic or western is just completely ignoring the fact, that Central Europe has both influences, and those both influences are familiar and dear to people living here. I loved Sapkowski's spin on Andersen's and Grimms' Fairy Tales and for example, and I love that the games showed that inluence too. But giving it more eastern/central european feel, the slavic lense.
im danish and had never heard this convo before because ive not heard people talk about it, dont have any mutals who play / read the witcher
With That being said, I instantly felt it when i played tw3 4 years agp. never thought about it in a slavic sense, but still did if that makes any sense. I also bought the other game and all the books
and yes I still felt it "slavic" so yeah it is.
Honestly the strong, in your face slavic atmosphere in Witcher 3 didn't bother me. If anything it made the game way better for me. But maybe it's because I'm polish. For example Witcher 2 felt way too much western for me.
Yeah, I feel almost exactly the same. I don't mind it when someone turns The Witcher into something more Slavic but then you can no longer say that it's faithful adaptation because it's not so forced in the books. And I agree, The Witcher 2 felt way more epic and grand. It felt like CDPR were trying to appeal to the Western market and make it more like your typical epic fantasy. It's my least favorite game from the series because of that and when I played it for the first time I turned it off in Flotsam because I hated how epic it looks (the giant La Valette castle, huge trees around Flotsam etc.). But after some years I found things I actually really like about the game and I eventually finished it.
I've read books back in primary school, played all three games a lot, starting with first one immediately when it came out in 2007. I'm also quite invested reader of many fantasy series across the years and globe. The thing I'm trying to say that I have very "home" feeling (like you did!) while reading or playing Witcher, well Wiedźmin. Since I'm Pole the series is especially close to me. Like you've said, even if it's not explicitly stated anywhere in the books, that it's slavic (why would it be stated there anyway in the first place?), the setting feels like it. More than that, reading it in polish, where obviously as a native I get all the nuances, all the wordplay, original naming, feels very, veeery different than the books from western authors. It feels in place, it feels slavic, or even polish to me, since I perfectly recognize all that jazz around. About two years back I decided to listen to audioplay (I can't say audiobook, it's simply not enough) from Fonopolis of first two books (available in polish only) and man... that feels even more slavic. It's perfect, from first minute to the last (if you will, type wiedźmin słuchowisko cda in google, out of curiosity).
The witcher universe have a lot of slavic elements but there is a lot of other elements, Celtic words are very present in the Witcher universe for exemple
It mainly depends on the regions too, the northern kingdoms are more slavic inspired, skellige is scandinavian and celtic, Toussaint is french-italian, the elves have a lot of celtic influence in their language
As always good material! :-) Thank you very much and Veselé Vánoce! :-)
To you too 😉
Gush, where to start? A culture is a complex thing, incorporating language, history, customs, folklore, tales and something I call a 'national character'. Looking from this perspective, I can't deny the books (especially the short stories) contain references to Slavic culture. But I would question if is that enough to call the whole 'product' Slavic. This is fantasy, after all. Sure, it takes inspiration from many folktales from around Europe, not only Slavic countries. As a result, the (fictional) culture of the Witcher's world countries is an amalgamate and I don't think one can simply call it Slavic, Germanic, or Romance. Though, there is surely a Slavic lense, to look through at the content of the books, same as there is a distinctly British one in the case of the Lord of the Rings.
Vukodav ali samo prva knjiga Marije Semjonove isto odlično prikazuje slovenski život i običaje 🙂 takođe trilogija Kosingas Aleksandra Tešića isto. Veliki pozdrav 🙂
Sapkowski is Pole, Slav and European, and all of this you can find in Witcher, simple as that.
The Witcher is European (mostly centric, Nordic and Eastern) folklore.
It's usually ignorant Netflix fans trying to justify the awful casting, locations and genericness. Ironically these are the "diversity is our strength" ppl who REFUSE to believe that every European country has a different culture, landscape, architecture, mental mindset, traditions etc. They relish their ignorance so it isn't worth arguing with them.
It's true the Witcher isn't Slavic only but I'm not sure how can a Netflix fan see a book with slavic monsters written by a man from a slavic who'd most likely write about the world around him and say THERE'S NO SLAVIC/EUROPEAN THEMES!
The cast doesn't help like the woman who pretends to be Yennefer on the show proudly saying about how she uses her indian heritage to build *cough hijack* the character, you know Yennefer who clearly was never indian in the first place. It reeks of needing validation and narcissism hence breeds the type of idiotic fans who dismiss things. Yes I am a diaspora Indian too she was casted to appeal to ppl like me so I can say this.
Iirc Henry has some French heritage but I don't think he used that to "build Geralt" probably why he's the most beloved in that show.
Diversity to them means just people of all carnations all acting lame
I really like the Witcher series and the games, specifically the 3rd made me read the novels and short stories. Being from Germany and interested in history, I always had the feeling of, it is not directly intended to be "slavic" and is subsequently slavic... What I mean with this is, Sapkowski is a great novelist and historian. He focused on the story and set it into a late medieval central to central eastern Europe, the setting he knows best. Considering he also wrote about the hussites in a more historical accurate fashion. What I have the feeling is, it is difficult to directly look into the ethnicity, for the areas in these time frame for there were no national divisions in a sense of today, for you also had a big mix there between more Slavic people on the countryside and also big concentration of German speaking people in the cities. Who directly brought all their folktale and "different ethnic groups coming to terms" on its own. This combined with the many other folktales of the and Sapkowskis way of replicating the great way of Polish communication in the dialogs, made it rather 'slavic' for me in a sense, that I could only set it into an area like nowadays Poland, the Baltic states and Czech Republic...This is getting too long XD sorry, I stop.
And, yeah, the show butchered it so much.
I've never heard anyone make it, but "the games introduced the slavic flavour!" is such a shit argument on every single level...
If you spend enough time in these discussions there's plenty of people like that..
It is very interesting how the slavic culture in the books feels similar to Celtic Welsh culture and folklore and as you say Norse elements.
Very good points made here. Yes, the witcher is undoubtedly heavily slavic with other cultures mentioned. It wouldn't be me if I didn't mention the influence of Elric on the series though
USA has no personal culture (very few people out there have it). Very little cultural heritage. Anything of value appeared in XIXth century when influence of puritans weakened. That's why they are so preocupied with destroying culture of others.
I don't know if it's Slavic, but from what I can see I can say that they are very polished.
4:04 What an absolutely stupid argument made by idiots, that’s like saying Middle Earth and Tolkiens works aren’t inherently Northern European and Christian mythology because he added the Haradrim and the Haradrim are based on Bedouins and Arabs, as such its an inherently diverse world filled with interesting peoples and as such, isn’t inherently Northern/Western European.
Cool, brilliant, now, I’d like to ask, tell me everything we know about the Haradrim culture and people and TRY to extend it beyond a single pages, let alone a few paragraphs and inferred information. Exactly, you can’t, because they weren’t the focus, the focus were the Northern European inspired men, along with the elves and dwarves.
1670 is amazing, I watched the whole serial in one day
Yeah, it's awesome. I hope there will be more seasons. I'm listening the soundtrack as I'm writing this reply 😁 th-cam.com/video/eJB4srmDLoI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=eVSnR65LkauL3ifV
I know exactly what you mean with the atmosphere: "You can't define it, but you know what it is".
I've been thinking about these issues of interpretation, perception, understanding, parsing, erc.--whatever yoy want to call it--for a while now on various subjets. Maybe this is a hottake, but I feel like it's a discernment issue. It comes more naturally to some than to others, and some people seem to lack it entirely.
There's a fine line, and I don't doubt it's hard to find becaise we have been arguing about human perception for as long as we've been around. But that doesn't mean line isn't there. And whether it's nature, nurture, or something else, some people can't seem to find it.
If anyone argues about the fact that witcher is slavic, the person do not understand what culture is.
Geralt is most blunt exaple of personification of slavic stoicism surrounded by overwhelming gloom and misery with very little one can do about. This is exactly what polish mentality was folded into after centuries of neverending invasions, partitions, slaughter and misery, where pepole had to manage and go on.
Vast majority of tales, rituals or belifs in the witcher are mostly based on polish folklore or the folkrole that poles knew from abroad, geography, landscape and even kingdoms are fantasy equavilants of Poland, Germany, nordic countries and others, Novigrad is a blunt copy of Gdańsk, even it's status as a free city is taken from Polish history.
All in all witcher is a perfect example of cultural export. And to be honest that is exactly what made it uniqe and exotic for most of the world.