So there is no free will. Now what?: Robert Speth at TEDxNSU
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2014
- With the sequencing of the human genome and advances in neuroscience, along with discoveries in the fields of epigenetics and social sciences, we have opened a Pandora's Box. An increasingly unavoidable conclusion from the progress of science is that humans do not possess free will. Revealing this knowledge about ourselves challenges every facet of our understanding of who we are. This presentation will describe some of the mounting evidence that precludes the existence of free will. Additionally, this talk will attempt to resolve the paradoxical absence and illusion of free will that is so essential to our humanness. Robert "Bob" Speth is a professor at Nova Southern University.
In the spirit of ideas worth spreading, TEDx is a program of local, self-organized events that bring people together to share a TED-like experience. At a TEDx event, TEDTalks video and live speakers combine to spark deep discussion and connection in a small group. These local, self-organized events are branded TEDx, where x = independently organized TED event. The TED Conference provides general guidance for the TEDx program, but individual TEDx events are self-organized.* (*Subject to certain rules and regulations)
I actually liked this very much. One question, though. If you do not have free will, can you still choose whether to 'enjoy' the ride?
This is a real mind bender. Free will is a weird concept.
Not proximately. D laws of physics and quantum uncertainty wil not give u choice
I think that something to take from this is that there seems to be an infinite number of choices but there are only a finite number of choices we can make. We also have the paradox of choice, where there are so many choices that it impacts our ability to make a decision or sometimes even pick the best choice for our best interests and sometimes the choices can seem infinite when in reality, they are limited. I think that it would be hard to choose to "enjoy" the ride entirely because, like he mentioned, our choices are governed by basically a bunch of cells, bacteria and chemicals, even before we consciously are aware that we will react in a certain way. We may feel like we have control, and in a way we do, we are our bodies and our bodies are us, but due to involuntary reactions to all kinds of stimuli, it would be impossible to entirely "enjoy it". It's in this sense that we lack our free will, well, anything I assume someone would call "true free will." It's almost like if you've ever taken any drugs (I'm not condoning drug use, nor do I use, only stating this as past experience/observation), or even just been in a deep trance and meditated. where you are just high enough or in a deep enough state to know that you are high/in deep but not so much that you think that you've gone to a completely different reality. We are always stuck in this in-between state of conscious and subconscious.
Yes. The answer is yes. So chose to enjoy it. ✌&❤
@@THEBATMAN28AHH You can still literally do whatever you want. Your life hasn't changed.
Accepting, rejecting, doubting, is all done with free will.
No it's not, as doing so is pre-determined
@@famatu To me, free will is just the self acting out it's desires and beliefs. We all have desires, beliefs, and convictions and it is our will that enables us to act on those desires, beliefs, and convictions. You are the one using your will and that is what makes it free will.
This is going into my favorites😁👍
i love this ted talk sm sm sm
what a thinker...if there is a problem with a concept just ignore it, great advice mister robert speth
Looked at from outside(objectively) the will is causally determined, and that looked at from inside(subjectively)it is free.
Finally someone who taking into account the subjectivicality
Can you elaborate?
Beautiful defination.
So I don't make decisions decisions make me? To act is to be acted upon? But if decisions make me maybe I have enough will power to act on which decisions make me the best me I can be. Even though the best me still doesn't have free will I somehow made it to a reality that makes me very happy and content. To act is to be acted upon, but if you have the will power to keep putting yourself in uncomfortable situations, and force yourself to be acted on in a way that's irregular, uneasy, nonintuitive, change happens.
I suggest you to read more about free will and determinism.
I don't know why he used that Schrodinger quote.
"So let us see whether we cannot draw the correct, non-contradictory conclusion from the following two premises:
(i) My body functions as a pure mechanism according to the Laws of Nature.
(ii) Yet I know, by incontrovertible direct experience, that I am directing its motions, of which I foresee the effects, that may be fateful and all-important, in which case I feel and take full responsibility for them."
It's lifted pretty heavily from its context.
The best metaphor(or maybe it's really an analogy given by a long time spiritual devotee on this) is that we're all droplets in the ocean, and this massive ocean wave drives us all to where it drives us, so that that really represents the destiny or fate of all of us. In such a situation none of us could possibly have the free will to determine what our fate or destiny is because we're all being carried along by this massive wave and as such, we cannot act against where it is driving us.
I was forced by my subconscious to like the video. Help me
Bravo! Well put!
Isn't it a bit anthropocentric to claim that only humans have free will? How, when, and why did evolution diverge when humans appeared? Did early humans have free will? How early?
A bit?? Extremely!
No free will, that is preposterous because Adam CHOSE to eat the forbidden fruit.
i dont know how to feel anymore, i believed free will up until now, im 20! for crying out loud, i only just recently knew it wasn't real cause someone told me!! i wish my life was real, i wish i had a true life, and all this time i have actually been searching around to find my own meaning of life! and this is where God led me, or was it just a lie? i guess i'll never know.
Over time, we all get used to not really understanding how everything works. If there is no free will, then humans and all the other living things have been doing pretty well without it for a very long time. It’s part of nature and it works. Believing we have free will has also been going on for a very long time and that works too - even if free will does not actually exist. Some parts of life are predictable enough that we feel we can make choices, so we do. Other parts of life seem unpredictable and we just have to make our best guesses and improvise as needed. If religion appeals to you, you should look into it. A curious mind can find some wisdom there. Later you may find it limits you, or it may become a life-long friend. Either way, you’ll know what to do when the time comes.
Just because someone tells you something doesn't mean you have to believe it. This realization can free you from both the idea that there is no free will, and from god.
people are mistaking time being relative and actions being instantaneous and everything set in stone for lack of free will when it actually has been proven that consciousness affct quantum outcomes and that the future can affect the past
Looked more like a high school speech class presentation than a TED talk.
Funny and truth or even elementary school.
Well it's a high school level understanding of the whole free will/determinism argument.
(Good grief it was idiotic....)
Is thera a difference?
'Cause and effect' - that's all it is.
That doesn't explain anything. Cause and effect...What caused cause? free will? Effect? If effect what caused that effect? A preceding effect of someone else? If so then there must be the origin cause which would imply free will...I don't believe in free will either btw.
What caused the cause of God's will
Please help me I have cochlear implant mind Kontrol. It controls what I say sometimes....body movements ....voices torture
I love how he regards hundarians as cave people. We are modern people just like you. You know... with internet and all.
You like Banana?
How does determinism explain the phenomenon of consciousness?
how does free will? one thing has nothing to do with the other
Simple the phenomenon is an illusion. The observer is a fiction.
inhibiting the brain to refute free will is like shackling the wrists to refute autonomy.
No inhibition necessary.
This is overstepping. The libet experiments only proved correlation not causation, classical physics may work in a computational way but quantum physics is indeterminate fundamentally, finally the hard problem of consciousness shows we don't know what to identify our self or our qualitative sensations to in regards to a purely material view of reality. Saying free will doesn't exist is assuming a conclusion that has not been established and is bad science.
Look at all these offended minds in the comment section ♥️
We may have designer jeans.
I still believe in free will, but I certainly don't think of it as being anything mystical or that you even need religion in order to believe in it. If we ever reach a point where we develop robots with AI like those in the movie "I, Robot" then I would say that they have free will.
You "feel" you have free will is something else then that it truly is. :) You are fooled by your own body.
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Bud Rozwood if free will exists...why do you have to believe in it?
All of this still leaves us with the same question. Is the brain and the physics underlying its operation all there is, or are these the scaffolding or instrument operated by a self? This answers nothing, though it is interesting. The inconsistency is that it completely undermines his whole thesis and talk. His neuronal firings are nothing more than that and have no meaning in the world. If he is right, then he is wrong. Troubling. It is the ultimate solipsism, the solipsism of physics. The debate will go on I'm afraid via Jim Echolls the Nobel Laureate, and Karl Popper.
Whiteiscolour wrote "Our body get sick and old that's not free will."
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See previous reply.
God is absolute free will, when our awareness increases we realize our self free will is limited and when you see truth of One, free will is infinite!!! 💝💝💝 Put it another way, when you give up your self freewill, then freewill is unlimited...
I don't understand fully what you are saying, but I like it.
We know literally nothing about the origins of consciousness let alone free will. There is nothing in this or any other work I have seen that comes close to addressing these questions. The entire basis of this is entirely speculative and ephemeral because the assumptions are legion and unrecognized.
I agree with you. Determinists love to just declare consciousness as a nothing more than an observer that has no influence on outcome but can't even begin to explain what consciousness even is.
It is not so cut and dry as he is making it appear. Predicting choices with 80% accuracy does disprove free actions, it just proves we can predict bias. If my only task is to choose between a left and right button, of course I will begin to create a pattern of choice because that is what is easiest for the brain. A task of this kind is not based on reward/punishment so why would your brain spend time purposefully trying to create new patterns if there are no actual consequences. It is completely divorced from real life. Furthermore it is only 80% meaning our brains are able to make spontaneous and non-biased actions 20% of the time which, even in this very limited experiment, tells us we have some amount of free will. This guy doesn't even try to pose a different argument which is incredibly dishonest. He is way to certain in his argumentation and is clearly only revealing one side of this incredibly contentious debate which is still happening. You don't prove something and then walk away--it is a constant battle.
The unconscious v the conscious.
Not sure I agree entirely with saying there is no free will. Will is basically desire. Free will is desiring whatever you want to desire. People usually do this. Free will exists.
@TheColaGoodfellow: So would you have free will if I kidnapped you and put a machine on you that controlled your actions. You would still desire but be incapable of acting on your desire. Have I taken your free will?
Manuel Galvan Free will is desiring what I want to desire, so the minute you make me desire something I didn't want to desire, you have taken my free will.
So if I go into your brain and change your preference from bananas to strawberries by shocking or otherwise manipulating your brain, I have taken your freewill?
Yep, atleast some of it. But just because it can be taken doesn't mean it wasn't free at some point, or isn't partially free now.
It can be taken by manipulating it's neuronal substrate. The argument is that because of the fact that our will is contingent on brain function, social preconditions, environmental factors and a whole host of other causes (including random chance), there isn't really room for free will in the traditional sense. Do you agree that your preferences and desires are based on a combination of genes and environment? If so, where does choice fit into that?
I don't believe pretending to have free will is a healthy option, if it's even a possibility. Self-delusion is never the way. I propose this, we instead recognize that though we are not responsible for the causes and conditions that determine how we come to think and act, our thoughts and actions are never the less still part of the causal systems that determine our destiny. With this we can be humbe and greatfull for our strengths and accepting of our weaknesses. As interconnected beings, we also act as causal systems on ourselves and others. Understanding this we can use self awareness to bring our actions in closer alignment with our hearts.
Thanks, I needed this
@@taquitoburritoxl No problem :)
Researchers can try to further determinism all they want, but our consciousness must have a function according to the theory of evolution. If the consciousness has no free will, it cannot perform any function. Thus, to embrace determinism is to deny evolution as the source of consciousness. While evolution might be inaccurate, this is an extremely bold claim not backed up by any evidence.
It is possible for random traits to develop despite the need for survival, however, but these would have been mutations as opposed to a (near-)universal constant across our species.
Lastly, the notion that there is no free will is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific. How would one disprove free will, if we cannot will it?
I don't know to what extent we have free will, but I don't think your arguments are convincing.
First, do you think other animals have free will? How about...fish, salamanders, etc?
Consciousness for humans and other animals would have a function even if there isn't free will because ultimately decisions are determined by the multitude of factors that go into the iterative process we use to make choices. Consciousness would provides us (and other animals) with a useful single coherent 3d image of the world around more or less accurately placing all the important stimuli/objects our senses tell us are there. That helps us make better informed choices even if ultimately they are determined and not due to FREE will. It would be like a computer program that was programmed to generate a matrix that pinpoints where it is in that matrix and where all the other 'things' are that it has to react to. Even if the computer program is entirely determined by the programmer, its unique ability to perceive its surroundings gives the programmer more options for how the program will react.
The notion that there is free will is unfalsifiable and therefore unscientific. That door would seem to swing both ways.
@@rizdekd3912 Computers don't need free will or consciousness to function; nothing you mentioned does. Why, then, do we have consciousness? There must be an underlying reason, and the most likely theory which corroborates our empirical observations - illusory or not - is that consciousness enables free will and thus decision making.
You're right in that this isn't falsifiable either (not until sensors improve to let us have a high-res look in the living brain), but the idea of the consciousness not serving a function is taking a giant dump over the theory of evolution, whereas free will is an elegant (not unnecessarily complex) assumption which explains our observations across domains - the subjective, the biological and the computational.
As for animals having free will, why ask? I wouldn't speak of "free" will anyway, since it's obviously severely constrained. But yes, if decision making is the evolutionary advantage of the consciousness, then animals certainly do possess constrained free will. After all, they're just as likely to be conscious as any human who isn't you as they display the same emotions - we either believe emotional responses to be genuine indicators of subjectivity, especially fear, or we go full solipsism and assume that all others are automata.
But, to be fair, many people do give off that impression.
Don't I have the free will to reject what science says about free will?
@Bucky To me free will just means you are free to use your will and that is why it's called free will. You are free to believe in something somebody is telling you and free to reject it. You are free to love, hate,discriminate, you are free to live your life like a moron and you are free to live a life of discipline.
Words are programming we have free will. Imaginary stuff can pop into this ugly reality.
And how do you live with that knowledge ? I know that's a different issue than whether it's true or not, but is it compatible with a decent happy human life ? I personally find it horrifying and would be grateful for any help on this matter. I have this hunch that if it's true that we have no free will,then I can't live without it perpetually on my mind, forbidding me to love, enjoy art or poetry or human interactions for that matter. I have always been an atheist and thought things like we're the product of what's going on inside our brains and the judicial system need to change, e.g. if I had the misfortune to have the same neuronal patterns than this criminal, I would probably have acted similarly and so on. But it seems that I was more paying lip service to the idea than really believe it. Now that I realize its implications, I find it unbearable and frankly I'm not sure how to get on with my life right now... I know it is an unabashed call for reassurance 😳 but with these thorny philosophical questions, you don't want either to fall into the trap of making inferences that are not necessarily representing the truth.
You're one of the animals in this universe who can use abstract reflexion. We have the chance to be at the very first place of the biggest mystery ever, existence. For me that's a kind of enjoyable idea ! Sorry for my english ;) bye
I feel the exact same I don’t know how to live with this knowledge
@@ryanmeade3020 Don't freak out. I did for a while but it was unnecessary really. First of all this talk is outdated as well as the research it's supposed to be based on. Other experiments were done since then that completely undermine the whole point of the talk. Compatibilism is the most popular opinion among philosophers in the field so rest assured that not having free-will in the sense of not being able to go against the laws of nature doesn't mean that you're a puppet. Neuroscientists are by profession aware of the debate over free-will and they don't seem to despair or to stop living normally, so why should you ?...As Dan Dennett says, upon examination, the kind of free-will we don't have is not worth having and all the types of freedom worth having, we actually have ! Read his excellent 'Elbow Room' book if you want to read good philosophy about this subject. Please don't loose your time in anguish about some Ted Talk by some guy on TH-cam, that's really not worth it !
I can strongly relate to what you wrote. I am struggling to live a normal life knowing that i don't have freewill. Can you please suggest some insight to what I can do. It takes away the freedom from me. I feel powerless.
That's a big question.
Jezus dude, how about defining which particular understanding of Free Will you're referring to? No one sensible argues for absolute free will, that would be a straw man fallacy wouldn't it, if that's what you're agueing against.....
Maybe I'm the only person that actually exists. How do I know that you aren't just a biological robot? Oh well!
Feeling special is a task of your brain for the goal of survival. You have to feel special in order to survive. People who are not happy about themself can become depressive and kill themselfs.
Fact is: you are not special. But the feeling that makes you feel special or that you think you are special does serve a purpose.
Whiteiscolour wrote "Lion don't choose to kill. Lions need to to kill. Humans behave in a same way."
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See previous reply.
Exactly we need to choose, but is choosing an automatic process disguised as free will, or it is really free will
Do children have free will?
His end note is just a cop-out. Extinction is all that's left now.
How to overcomplicate your life? : watch this video.
I can't tell if he's being sarcastic but his fallacious rhetoric makes this difficult to watch.
What's fallacious about it?
@@88marome He assumes because they can detect a thought as electricity as it fires in the brain before the person "thinks" it, that it wasn't a free will choice. What he fails to understand is that thinking doesn't happen in the brain, its last stage is wiring in the brain as neurons etc. In other words he is a materialist, he is looking at the television set for answers instead of looking to where the signal is coming from. Also as another example, the heart sends more signals to the brain than vice versa, the institute of heartmath proved that, an intuition of the heart (heart thinking) would show up in the heart first, THEN the brain second, thus the intuition is felt, then thought. So it could APPEAR to be an outside determined influence, when in reality it's just a highly organized system of that isn't well understood even today, the body is a colaboration of living systems.
The brain is a record of the past, it's an artifact, it's secondary. They will never find consciousness there aka free will, but that's exactly what the materialist tries to do, unable to get beyond his self, and since it never works...they end up like this man.
bad one! for the lack of clarity and doctrine-way of stating it, i will give a + to free will. Social law. that was the key aspect adn he passed it over only to get back to it in a sophistic manner, in the final moment. Sooo... poetic .. thank you . you science guys are surley doing something important for the world, fabricate even more consistent lies than you accuse religion and faith. Only because of your lack o faith you hold this view... very dissapointing ted ex
very superficial..
Mouth sounds make this unwatchable
There is free will. I challenge anybody to rebut me.
How?
Two headed unicorns are real. I challenge anybody to rebut me.
(Sadly, this is enough to rebut you.... Unless you have anything more than baseless claims to present.)
perception is reality
@@technolus5742 unicorns are real in your mind :) they are not real in physical world? Same free will.. if we would have been predetermined to think only to real things, we wouldn’t go anywhere, instead, we can sloppity sloppy predict the future and thinks imaginary things, why? Because we are advanced
@@CapitanTavish are they real in my mind? Cause they tend to be fantasy in my mind.
Oke. just because he can't lose the idea doesn't mean we all shouldn't. What small minded idea.
Utterly absurd! Did he determine the things he said were true as a matter of his own free will or was he genetically and circumstance ally constrained to make those claims? Any truth claim is in itself testimony that free will exists. Why not admit we have a limited free will and therefore responsibility.
Let me ask you a question. Outside of science, I want you to think about your life. From the start to this comment, and all the choices you made that got you here. If any of these choices changed, would you have made this comment?
@@Skaypegote There's no way for you know that. Free will is all about the moment, your past experiences may influence a decision but your past doesn't make the decision.
There was recorded that I destined to put comment here. There is no free will. Past, Present and Future already exist at the same time. Time is an illusion
I'm somewhat curious about these women, who apparently belonged to some beer drinking hungarians. Sounds a bit fishy.
Whiteiscolour wrote "Our life is dictated by needs of our body and mind. Yes there is free will like die or live but than only fool will choose to die."
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A mother will often choose to die to save her child.
According to you that makes her a fool.
Didn't think that one out first, didja?
I didn't know we carried electrodes that stimulate our prefrontal cortex in our heads on a normal daily basis, wow I guess there is no free will.... lol
Just because you have unconscious processes doesn't mean you aren't unable to affect your behavior, and that study about predicting ones behavior 10 seconds prior was only 60% accurate between the left and right arm while using state of the art brain scans (pathetic).
What's worse is his supposed solution to this whole mess. Basically "hey just pretend I didn't tell you this mkay?"... yeah good luck with that, especially when you point out it's not good to tell people they don't have free will lmao
another
60% is HUGE! What are you talking about? It's incredible that we have come that far!
@@88marome out of 2 options 60 % is huge?? That's a lie. The chances of me choosing something between ONLY two options is 50%.
Have these people tried meditation? If they did they would know its a little bit of both not just either or.
If you never heard of meditation.. or had it as an input or as a past event then in the world of determinism you do it. And if you have heard of it and your past events make you do meditation then it can give peace in your brain. But it doesn't make your smarter.. it's more like a good break for your brain.
He sure calls himself a scientist a lot for someone who celebrates "perception over reality"
if you were born hitler or a serial killer you would have done what they did if you had the sames genes and dna and brain scary thought can you pick and choose who you are born or what culture you live in or what religion you are born into or if you are born ugly or beautiful do you think a ugly person will mke the same decisions as a beautiful person did judas have a free will no someone had to bertray jesus does god not know what you will do before you do it
Jeezuz H. Kee-Rist,
Another Ghost Worshiper found his way over to a science video.
Dude, quit embarrassing yourself.
Go back to your Jesus channels and hangout with other delusional freaks.
The grownups have work to do.
genes do not always do what they are expected to do conventionally so we are not necessarily their product always. an xy can end up an xx in practice.
Whiteiscolour wrote "Our body need food and shelter that's not free will."
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Who said it was?
(Google: Straw Man logical fallacy)
He is proving his case by stating that fact.
(Google: logical fallacy: fallacy)
Bravo on your hypocrisy!
self deluded christian - doesn't he know that god is omnipotent, ie all knowing, so it really doesn't matter what you do or don't do your actions are predetermined.
Unimpressed. Is he really a scientist any more? Sounds out of touch
What a rubbish nonsense. In their madness to refute the formal region they are denying the most obvious truth. that is, Ultimate, omnipotent and overwhelming reality Who has created us. Instead of accepting His greatness, they have concocted all sorts of gibberish and twisted statements.
The simplest path to the truth is the realisation that 1) we are created beings; and 2) it is not we who has created us.
And then look inwards and around us to find and explore that how our Creator is communicating with us.
May the truthful and righteous be blessed.