Hi George I was a student of Roy's for four years in the early 1970s. I don't know when you studied with Roy but with me he used 2 coffee stirrers set up in the upside down "T" formation instead of a pencil. He said the stirrers allowed for more air displacement. It is a great strengthening exercise. I was able to play for 40 more years because of what I learned from him. Keep it up. Thanks, John
tdeecy You don't get it do you! We are not changing a persons lifetime alignment we are training the jaw to move forward at will when playing to align the top and bottom teeth vertically. Most people can relax the muscle after stretching it with the pencil and then are able to hold the jaw forward in the best position for playing . I have a severe overbite and have trained myself years ago to place the jaw in the forward position with teeth parallel and open approx 1/4th inch while playing. We are in NO WAY saying you can change alignment permanently - and by the way your exercising the muscle is a baby step and will never produce unlimited endurance. Moving the jaw forward to the proper position allows the air to activate the muscles as they are in an alignment where the resistance against the air Automatically requires the lips to come together similar to saying mmmm. I'm sure you are a good dr. but this is the trumpet world where we ask and train muscles to perform specific duties. Very few players have a natural occlusion putting thir chops into a perfect position and as a result;t we have generations of players using way too much muscle force and lip manipulation. In my judgement of professional players I see a small few that grasp this forward jaw concept and as a result are prisoners to a lifetime of "weight lifting" for their lips. It is not necessary if you understand the concept of how the forward jaw activates the muscles when the air strikes the front of the face guided by the unconscious will . The great players do this and many have no idea that they are doing it - but it still is a law and they reap the benefits. This concept has flourished in what is called the Castillion system by some - passing through Spain and to Latin America. Much do to the facial structure of these peoples. Watch the Latin players hold the horn straight or slightly up and you can see the effortless manner they play for hours and hours. I apologize for coming on so strong but It Is Time for the Lip to get a break from all of the needless hours of development. Trumpet can be played easily if the laws are obeyed...
tdeecy has stated that the pencil must be sharp and held between the lips until burn develops. This is foolishness that many many players and teachers praise. The purpose of my pencil exercise is to align the jaw in a forward and even position with the top teeth directly over or slightly behind the lower teeth edges. This creates a mechanical advantage which allows the air to act against the front of the face and the resistance is created with a force bringing the lips together as if saying mmmm. This is not a strength building exercise it is an alignment exercise. The issue with Roy Stevens proponents has been cluttered by their misunderstanding of the purpose of the exercise. There are thousands of players that have misinterpreted these exercises and given up. My system has it's roots in Roys but is not the same. It goes beyond the rigid rules and applies most of the physics Roy used but the explanation is much clearer.
Awesome George! Thanks for sharing. My trumpet teacher 30 years ago tried to teach me this pencil exercise. I probably did not listen or maybe it just did not sink in. Now I get it and have all the time in the world to work on it. When I was younger I did not want take the time to change anything. Today I tried moving my lower jaw out while playing and I can tell the difference. I need to do some more training on it to make it feel more natural. Have you tried using a straw instead and blowing through it? Maybe a small cocktail straw.
yes my brother you are on the money! I combine what i know about the Steven's Method with the magical (seemingly) exercises in Earl D. Iron's 27 Groups.I'm a comeback player who has had the correct knowledge for years, but finally got around to applying it. The slur is the key, and Iron's ingenious arrangements of the exercises without use of the pistons.I've been training steady for five weeks and i'm up to Group 12, the last section of which slurs to 1st C above staff, no problem. .
@varscht As a pure isometric the lips only - however the point of the pencil exercise as it was designed by william Costello was to both work the muscles and insure the use of the PROPER muscles by holding the pencil between your TEETH. At an angle at least parallel to the floor or slightly above horizontal Thus keeping the lower jar forward. I suggest that this exercise is almost worthless UNLESS THE TEETH ARE USED TO HOLD THE JAW FORWARD IN THE CORRECT POSITION.
Hi George. There are numereus clips about pencil exercise. It is often shown that the pencil is to be held only by lips. I used your way, then played (I know what you said about it!), but the sound was better, airflow easier and the feeling was open - no pinching in throat. Wery nice! Thank you. Wish you a happy new year :-) Erik from Denmark.
@Geturownbox101 Place finger on face below bottom lip and hold it. go up a scale- notice whether teeth (jaw) are moving back and up. The lower lip travels along it's natural arch when it pulls back and the bottom lip tucks under the top. At a certain point the bottom lip touches the top teeth edges and cuts the sound. Keep the jaw forward as you ascend.contract the bottom lip forward to the mouthpiece slightly when setting up. Make an effort to tug the top lip down as u ascend
@Starner95 Like most exercise you can feel the burn after in a good way or in a bad way. Don't over do it, try shorter time with more reps. Make sure your lips do not squeeze against your teeth. It sounds like you are doing something right because you say you feel it "around" your lips and not in your lips. gR
George, this is a great description of the exercise. Thank you so much! Most important, you underline very well the fact of keeping the center of the lips fleshy, without pinching. This is SO important!!!
excellent advice!! Ive recently been trying to bring my bottom jaw forward but have been having a hard time doing so. This seems to be working so far. Thanks so much for your advice!!!!
The way it's described here won't help at all. You must sharpen a long wooden pencil and put the sharpened end between your lips and hold it there until you feel your buccinator and peri-oral muscles are burning. This approximates the smaller lip-opening of actual playing and develops those muscles. If the pencil-lead bothers you, break it off. It's not lead anyway, only graphite and clay.
Thank you George!!! Your attitude, willingness to help and kindness really make difference! I started the pencil exercise and felt everything you are describing here: burning in my jaw and in my lip muscles. After the exercise I can feel my jaw more relaxed, my muscles kind of pleasantly tired and more relaxed. Once again, thank you for the time making this video. It is highly beneficial!!! Wishing you all the best!!!
Your top lip should relax when you breath in but the air should come in from the sides of your mouth. Yes you should do this every day for the rest of your playing career
Hi Geroge. I've got one question about this exersice. When i put the pencil IN THE MIDDLE of my lips, one corner of my mouth a little bit higher than the other and when I exhale (blow), my corners come together so the pencil turns left( not up or down) from the straight line and some air seeps out from the left side. Also my lower jaw moves left too. Is this ok? Does it means I should pay special attention to this corner? Thanks.
Timur Kashtan first hold the pencil with the front teeth. This way the teeth will be opened to the proper distance. When you breathe ( not blow). Make sure the pencil is perpendicular to the teeth. Think only of breathing out. Never blowing hard. This trains your air to fill the throat and then the air is massive. Make sure when you take the pencil out KEEP THE JAW FORWARD AND RELAXED! No pressure at the lips. Then breathe a small amount of air which will produce a tiny whistle... IF YOU DONT PRESS OR COMPRESS THE LIPS.
First of all sorry for my question, I´m not a english speaker and there is only one thing I din´t get: Do I have to hold the pencil with my teeth or just with the lips? Thanks
once you play with the teeth aligned the auxuliary facial muscles kick in to help support the aperture, this is a principle i was totally ignorant of, relying on pressure and pivot (brcause of recedding jaw) to produce upper tones, and unable to execute a decent slur, the euphonium embouchure being less demanding than trumpet i was able to win Most Accomplished Musician in High School, because of some natural talent, but when i took up trumpet i realized something was drastically wrong
by the way what part of Roy's System did you modify> How can you improve on such greatness? You should amplify on the Iron's Method by applying the Steven's secrets. Im working on such a manuscript. Irons methods will take you to Double G if you use correct embouchure. The exercises are in the perfect order to build strength in an easygoing way, without popping a cranial nerve.
How long should someone starting out on this exercise hold the pencil? 30 sec? 1 min+? Then, how many reps should they do, and how long should the rests be in between? After several weeks and/or months, how long should I be aiming for, given that I'm doing the exercise correctly?
i am thuderstruck by the efficiency of Earl D. Iron's Method. If you look at the original book he does not mention teeth alignment. But once you add that ingedient the Iron's book comes alive/important to practise exercises in order and manner prescribed. I love to hear what you said about relaxing the aperture. No need to tighten it up.As A fact the more you learn to relax the lips the better results i get.
also george i have found the ta-eee vocalization to be useless. all it does is constrict the throat, i use haa-haa when slurring from lower note to higher note. I try to put the haaa through the horn learning to relax and open up like you say. Do you too find taa-eee useless. Also please explain what is an embody chute.
george what is your experience with the Earl D. Iron's method i also avoid the shrieking stuff in upper regiater, no need to blow out a cerebral artery i havent found anything better for chop development than the Iron's series of exercises there's a lot of secrets wrapped up in those exercises. At some point every day i can feel the chops setting in, and the slures start to come out effortlessly
for me the key is the alignment of upper and lower jaw (teeth) the upper jaw being immobile the lower jaw has to slide forward to align the teeth upper and lower. I played throughout High School on the euphonium and had some success playing it without the slightest clue the teeth had to be aligned. I suffered constantly from the receeding jaw sybdrome.It is true though that it is easier to play the slurs when i curl a little more upper lip into the mouthpiece.
george what about the direction of the air stream? the horizontal pencil allows a horizintal or upward air stream, why is the direction of the air stream important?
Incredible! This is a really different approach to the pencil exercise - holding it between your teeth. I'm going to have to watch this a few more times. However, I do have TMJ (which usually doesn't bother me while playing) and I'm afraid this might aggravate it. A big thanks for putting this up.
Hi, is it normal that at the beginning you loose sound and tone quality? And sometimes air comes out instead of notes? I am saying this as you try to play with my lower jaw aligned with my upper jaw.
@How4gospel Thank you for your kind words. Yes watch the videos and go to my web site: gRawlin.com for much more. You can spend months at my web site getting great helps. gR
Hi George I was a student of Roy's for four years in the early 1970s. I don't know when you studied with Roy but with me he used 2 coffee stirrers set up in the upside down "T" formation instead of a pencil. He said the stirrers allowed for more air displacement. It is a great strengthening exercise. I was able to play for 40 more years because of what I learned from him. Keep it up. Thanks, John
tdeecy You don't get it do you! We are not changing a persons lifetime alignment we are training the jaw to move forward at will when playing to align the top and bottom teeth vertically. Most people can relax the muscle after stretching it with the pencil and then are able to hold the jaw forward in the best position for playing . I have a severe overbite and have trained myself years ago to place the jaw in the forward position with teeth parallel and open approx 1/4th inch while playing. We are in NO WAY saying you can change alignment permanently - and by the way your exercising the muscle is a baby step and will never produce unlimited endurance. Moving the jaw forward to the proper position allows the air to activate the muscles as they are in an alignment where the resistance against the air Automatically requires the lips to come together similar to saying mmmm. I'm sure you are a good dr. but this is the trumpet world where we ask and train muscles to perform specific duties. Very few players have a natural occlusion putting thir chops into a perfect position and as a result;t we have generations of players using way too much muscle force and lip manipulation. In my judgement of professional players I see a small few that grasp this forward jaw concept and as a result are prisoners to a lifetime of "weight lifting" for their lips. It is not necessary if you understand the concept of how the forward jaw activates the muscles when the air strikes the front of the face guided by the unconscious will . The great players do this and many have no idea that they are doing it - but it still is a law and they reap the benefits. This concept has flourished in what is called the Castillion system by some - passing through Spain and to Latin America. Much do to the facial structure of these peoples. Watch the Latin players hold the horn straight or slightly up and you can see the effortless manner they play for hours and hours. I apologize for coming on so strong but It Is Time for the Lip to get a break from all of the needless hours of development. Trumpet can be played easily if the laws are obeyed...
tdeecy has stated that the pencil must be sharp and held between the lips until burn develops. This is foolishness that many many players and teachers praise. The purpose of my pencil exercise is to align the jaw in a forward and even position with the top teeth directly over or slightly behind the lower teeth edges. This creates a mechanical advantage which allows the air to act against the front of the face and the resistance is created with a force bringing the lips together as if saying mmmm. This is not a strength building exercise it is an alignment exercise. The issue with Roy Stevens proponents has been cluttered by their misunderstanding of the purpose of the exercise. There are thousands of players that have misinterpreted these exercises and given up. My system has it's roots in Roys but is not the same. It goes beyond the rigid rules and applies most of the physics Roy used but the explanation is much clearer.
Awesome George! Thanks for sharing. My trumpet teacher 30 years ago tried to teach me this pencil exercise. I probably did not listen or maybe it just did not sink in. Now I get it and have all the time in the world to work on it. When I was younger I did not want take the time to change anything. Today I tried moving my lower jaw out while playing and I can tell the difference. I need to do some more training on it to make it feel more natural. Have you tried using a straw instead and blowing through it? Maybe a small cocktail straw.
yes my brother you are on the money! I combine what i know about the Steven's Method with the magical (seemingly) exercises in Earl D. Iron's 27 Groups.I'm a comeback player who has had the correct knowledge for years, but finally got around to applying it. The slur is the key, and Iron's ingenious arrangements of the exercises without use of the pistons.I've been training steady for five weeks and i'm up to Group 12, the last section of which slurs to 1st C above staff, no problem. .
Thank you so much. I have a Jazz Band audition tomorrow and I was not consistent in hitting the high notes in "Blue Bossa." Hopefully this helps!
Holy shit this did wonders for my range and tone thank you SO MUCH
@varscht As a pure isometric the lips only - however the point of the pencil exercise as it was designed by william Costello was to both work the muscles and insure the use of the PROPER muscles by holding the pencil between your TEETH. At an angle at least parallel to the floor or slightly above horizontal Thus keeping the lower jar forward. I suggest that this exercise is almost worthless UNLESS THE TEETH ARE USED TO HOLD THE JAW FORWARD IN THE CORRECT POSITION.
Hi George.
There are numereus clips about pencil exercise. It is often shown that the pencil is to be held only by lips. I used your way, then played (I know what you said about it!), but the sound was better, airflow easier and the feeling was open - no pinching in
throat. Wery nice! Thank you. Wish you a happy new year :-) Erik from Denmark.
@Geturownbox101
Place finger on face below bottom lip and hold it. go up a scale- notice whether teeth (jaw) are moving back and up. The lower lip travels along it's natural arch when it pulls back and the bottom lip tucks under the top. At a certain point the bottom lip touches the top teeth edges and cuts the sound. Keep the jaw forward as you ascend.contract the bottom lip forward to the mouthpiece slightly when setting up. Make an effort to tug the top lip down as u ascend
@Starner95 Like most exercise you can feel the burn after in a good way or in a bad way. Don't over do it, try shorter time with more reps. Make sure your lips do not squeeze against your teeth. It sounds like you are doing something right because you say you feel it "around" your lips and not in your lips.
gR
por favor la pueden traducir al español o poner subtitulos muchisimas gracias maestro
George, this is a great description of the exercise. Thank you so much!
Most important, you underline very well the fact of keeping the center of the lips fleshy, without pinching. This is SO important!!!
excellent advice!! Ive recently been trying to bring my bottom jaw forward but have been having a hard time doing so. This seems to be working so far. Thanks so much for your advice!!!!
george eveythibg you said struck home. Is the the famous roy stevens lip curl method?
@DungeonRaider it is an occasional substitute for playing hundreds of repetitious exercises.
Can pencil exercise help in saxophone playing?
The way it's described here won't help at all. You must sharpen a long wooden pencil and put the sharpened end between your lips and hold it there until you feel your buccinator and peri-oral muscles are burning. This approximates the smaller lip-opening of actual playing and develops those muscles. If the pencil-lead bothers you, break it off. It's not lead anyway, only graphite and clay.
Thank you George!!! Your attitude, willingness to help and kindness really make difference! I started the pencil exercise and felt everything you are describing here: burning in my jaw and in my lip muscles. After the exercise I can feel my jaw more relaxed, my muscles kind of pleasantly tired and more relaxed. Once again, thank you for the time making this video. It is highly beneficial!!! Wishing you all the best!!!
could you use a pen or other utensil?
Buenos días. Eso se haría antes de empezar a estudiar o al culminar el estudio del día?
Buenos días. use esto antes de comenzar a practicar. gracias
Your top lip should relax when you breath in but the air should come in from the sides of your mouth. Yes you should do this every day for the rest of your playing career
Hi Geroge. I've got one question about this exersice. When i put the pencil IN THE MIDDLE of my lips, one corner of my mouth a little bit higher than the other and when I exhale (blow), my corners come together so the pencil turns left( not up or down) from the straight line and some air seeps out from the left side. Also my lower jaw moves left too. Is this ok? Does it means I should pay special attention to this corner? Thanks.
Timur Kashtan first hold the pencil with the front teeth. This way the teeth will be opened to the proper distance. When you breathe ( not blow). Make sure the pencil is perpendicular to the teeth. Think only of breathing out. Never blowing hard. This trains your air to fill the throat and then the air is massive.
Make sure when you take the pencil out KEEP THE JAW FORWARD AND RELAXED! No pressure at the lips.
Then breathe a small amount of air which will produce a tiny whistle... IF YOU DONT PRESS OR COMPRESS THE LIPS.
@TitanticFAIL You are one of the fortunate few with a naturally open and forward jaw. Someday you will be a monster player, if you aren't already
@ElQueMataLaBacha use your teeth with very light pressure on the pencil. Just enough to hold it still
@eatavegi TransMandibularJuxtaposition your jaw slips away from the normal position
First of all sorry for my question, I´m not a english speaker and there is only one thing I din´t get: Do I have to hold the pencil with my teeth or just with the lips?
Thanks
once you play with the teeth aligned the auxuliary facial muscles kick in to help support the aperture, this is a principle i was totally ignorant of, relying on pressure and pivot (brcause of recedding jaw) to produce upper tones, and unable to execute a decent slur, the euphonium embouchure being less demanding than trumpet i was able to win Most Accomplished Musician in High School, because of some natural talent, but when i took up trumpet i realized something was drastically wrong
by the way what part of Roy's System did you modify> How can you improve on such greatness? You should amplify on the Iron's Method by applying the Steven's secrets. Im working on such a manuscript. Irons methods will take you to Double G if you use correct embouchure. The exercises are in the perfect order to build strength in an easygoing way, without popping a cranial nerve.
Thank you George. I have got acquainted with your trumpet advice and great playing through TPIN.
Greetings from Manchester, England!
How long should someone starting out on this exercise hold the pencil? 30 sec? 1 min+? Then, how many reps should they do, and how long should the rests be in between?
After several weeks and/or months, how long should I be aiming for, given that I'm doing the exercise correctly?
i am thuderstruck by the efficiency of Earl D. Iron's Method. If you look at the original book he does not mention teeth alignment. But once you add that ingedient the Iron's book comes alive/important to practise exercises in order and manner prescribed. I love to hear what you said about relaxing the aperture. No need to tighten it up.As A fact the more you learn to relax the lips the better results i get.
also george i have found the ta-eee vocalization to be useless. all it does is constrict the throat, i use haa-haa when slurring from lower note to higher note. I try to put the haaa through the horn learning to relax and open up like you say. Do you too find taa-eee useless. Also please explain what is an embody chute.
george what is your experience with the Earl D. Iron's method i also avoid the shrieking stuff in upper regiater, no need to blow out a cerebral artery i havent found anything better for chop development than the Iron's series of exercises there's a lot of secrets wrapped up in those exercises. At some point every day i can feel the chops setting in, and the slures start to come out effortlessly
for me the key is the alignment of upper and lower jaw (teeth) the upper jaw being immobile the lower jaw has to slide forward to align the teeth upper and lower. I played throughout High School on the euphonium and had some success playing it without the slightest clue the teeth had to be aligned. I suffered constantly from the receeding jaw sybdrome.It is true though that it is easier to play the slurs when i curl a little more upper lip into the mouthpiece.
george what about the direction of the air stream? the horizontal pencil allows a horizintal or upward air stream, why is the direction of the air stream important?
Incredible! This is a really different approach to the pencil exercise - holding it between your teeth. I'm going to have to watch this a few more times. However, I do have TMJ (which usually doesn't bother me while playing) and I'm afraid this might aggravate it. A big thanks for putting this up.
yes hold the pencil lightly with your teeth not your lips.
Thanks
Hi, is it normal that at the beginning you loose sound and tone quality? And sometimes air comes out instead of notes? I am saying this as you try to play with my lower jaw aligned with my upper jaw.
You should buy the entire package go to www.grawlin-com.mybigcommerce.com/
Robert lets continue this on email. My contact is at grawlin.com
@musicbeech I was a Stevens student:)
for me it's about .75" - 1"
certainly will work for bone
so you say get the lead out:)
In this exercise where I place the language, Under or Over the pen?
language or tongue?
this is one of the better emboucher videos
Thank you for sharing your knowledge in this subject, very helpful.
gee ever hear of ROY STEVENS?????????
watching this video high changed my life
would this work for trombone?
Lol his pencil is old. :P
pencils have so many uses
yes even a straw dum dum
thanks !!!
good one!
yea me too
eww. XD
Thanks George! Hope you are well!
I’ve been better but still happy 🙏❤️
Good to hear. It’s a hard time for all of us.
Does this work for french horn?
Any brass, just more dedicated to trumpet sized mouthpieces
@How4gospel Thank you for your kind words. Yes watch the videos and go to my web site:
gRawlin.com for much more. You can spend months at my web site getting great helps.
gR
Buenos días. use esto antes de comenzar a practicar. gracias