Atheist Experience 23.40 with Matt Dillahunty & David Warnock
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- 23:20 Cazz: Australia: Tips and Advice for Aftermath of Coming Out Atheist
37:03 Rick: NC: Substitutionary Atonement, Why Didn’t Jesus Stay in Hell?
54:30 Bronson: New Zealand: My Prayer Experience Proves God
1:08:30 Ismail: South Africa: Flipping Coin Analogy for the Burden of Proof, Muslim Doctrine
The Atheist Experience 23.40 for September 22, 2019, with Matt Dillahunty and David Warnock. Bat Cruise Weekend. Matt recaps the events of the 2019 bat cruise weekend.
Call the show on Sundays 4:30-6:00pm CDT: 1-512-686-0279
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WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE?
The Atheist Experience is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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NOTES
TheAtheistExperience is the official channel of The Atheist Experience. "The Atheist Experience" is a trademark of the ACA.
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23:20 Cazz: Australia: Tips and Advice for Aftermath of Coming Out Atheist
37:03 Rick: NC: Substitutionary Atonement, Why Didn’t Jesus Stay in Hell?
54:30 Bronson: New Zealand: My Prayer Experience Proves God
1:08:30 Ismail: South Africa: Flipping Coin Analogy for the Burden of Proof, Muslim Doctrine
I didn't believe that science is advance in every aspect, prove me first that science is advance, then if u cannot prove I will prove you that God is the creator of everything.
@Denzohd You have a problem with an English question?
Prove science is advanced, if you cannot, then I will prove that God us the creator if everything
@@fallfromgrace3060 Do you even know what "science" is? You don't provide any context for what "science" means in your question. Therefore your question is invalid.
But if you can prove god, then go ahead. Just assume that "science" is false. Prove "god".
@@insanetester1015 You Atheist have the burden of proof by claiming that evolution is happening so prove it.
As a scientist, I KNOW that there's no mechanism for evolution.
I love it when Dave is co-host. The balance between Dave and Matt is perfect. I can see more smiles on Matt when Dave is on here for than with any other co-host. Dave please don't be a stranger and do more shows. Love ya both! Cheers
I think they have had many good hosts/guests on but yeah, like Dave, he's deep.
Thanks Brian, Ammar and Andy!!!
Theist logic: a Spiritual being created a natural universe (time/space)
Atheist logic: Universe make self from nothing🤦♂️
@@jtabeyta2040 proof please.👍😄
@Andy Donnelly huh? Which of the 2 make sense... im waiting
23:00 min taking calls begins.
IMO, the time allowed for the broadcast should be expanded.
Thanks, DH.
You’re doing god’s work lol
How can anyone reject a god they don’t believe in? There is nothing to reject.
Peter Sinclair Nobody is rejecting a god they don’t believe in. They’re rejecting the claim that a god exists.
23:16 Cazz: Australia. How to navigate leaving the church.
37:02 Rick: North Carolina. Questioning his faith.
54:26 Bronson: New Zealand. Christian. Why he believes.
1:08:25 Ishmail: South Africa. Muslim. Atheist vs Theist metaphors.
Spoiler: Bronson had no clue.
@@gabrielesimionato1210 Lol.
May the Lord bless you. lol.
@@caribbeanman3379 Lol is right. ;)
Instead of using the coin example (1:08:57) you can use two guys playing poker.
Guy1: "I have won, because I have a Royal Flush."
Guy2: "I don't believe you. Show me your cards."
Guy1: "Nope."
Distorted "bruh" sound
I found the show just like Rick. Just stumbled on it on youtube one day, and I've not been able to stop watching.
"Christian's treat the Bible like a software agreement." Superb.
I totally agree, and I am even a Christian!
I love that. good on you Geoff.
Less than a quarter of those who have ever read a Bible have a systematic plan for reading the Christian scriptures each day. And a third of Americans never pick it up on their own, according to a study from Nashville-based LifeWay Research.
Small wonder many church leaders worry about biblical illiteracy, said Scott McConnell, executive director of LifeWay Research.
“Most Americans don’t know first-hand the overall story of the Bible-because they rarely pick it up,” McConnell said. “Even among worship attendees less than half read the Bible daily. The only time most Americans hear from the Bible is when someone else is reading it.”
Ironic, all these believers telling us we don’t know the Bible. 😂
@@blankaccount5073 are you capable of anything but insulting people you don't agree with? Somehow I doubt it
Pwning You My comment was about how Christians don’t read/know the Bible as well as they say, nothing else.
Thank you all at the Atheist Experience
You have been instrumental in helping me overcome the indoctrination I endured as a child from catholic nuns
Happy and proud to now say I’m an Atheist
Cheers from Melbourne Australia
❤️🙋♀️❤️
mah people
Congratulations, Maria! 👍😊
Warstar
Thank you
I keep watching the Atheists Experience and that really helps me stay strong
I’m actually a woman and my name is Maria , named after guess who?
🙋♀️🧚♂️🙋♀️
Adam Silva 🙋♀️🦜🦜🦜
Greg Pearcey
🙋♀️🧚♂️🧚♂️🧚♂️
Listening to Dave is really nice. I've been stressing over petty work-related things, and he really makes me put those problems in perspective. It's really comforting.
So happy to hear that!!!
Dave Warnock is super inspirational. He's not wallowing in sadness about his diagnosis or saying woe is me, he's dying out loud and carpe-ing the fucking diem! Much respect to him. Matt as usual as well.
Thank you Lloyd.
Bronson from New Zealand said he's pretty "rebellious" and against everything god stood for. But attends church meetings.
re·bel·lious - adjective: showing a desire to resist authority, control, or convention.
self-de·cep·tion - noun: the action or practice of allowing oneself to believe that a false or unvalidated feeling, idea, or situation is true.
God does not need blood.
God needs money.
Everyone knows that.
gets plenty of blood money though
"He's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing and all wise but somehow he just can't handle money. Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes and they always need a little bit more. Now if you talk about a good bullshit story......Holy Shit!" - George Carlin
LoL 😂 😂
God's a beggar.
@@naughtiusmaximus542 God the true God does not need money the ones who wrongly represent him for money and Rob people poor people they will be accountable to him.
CALL-IN TUTORIAL…
I’ve been encouraging folks on TH-cam to call in (especially theists) and they’re saying they’re having issues getting through, so I thought I would put together a quick tutorial on how to call in, and what to expect when you reach a call screener.
Part 1: How and When to call in...
Our number is: 1-512-686-0279 or call through your computer using CallTheShow at tiny.cc/calltheshow
We start taking calls for Talk Heathen at 12:30pm and Atheist Experience at 3:30pm US Central Time on Sundays. If you’re not sure how time zones work (and you’d be surprised how many people don’t), check to see how this lines up with your local time cause the clock on your wall might not be the same as ours. Now, if you’re thinking, “I’ll just call when the show starts,” that is a very bad idea. By the time the shows start streaming all or most of the lines will be full so your odds of getting through have gone down SIGNIFICANTLY. Call at or around when we start taking calls and your odds of getting through will be MUCH better. Yes, this means you will be on hold longer waiting for the show to begin, but its better than just getting a busy signal.
Now remember, during the course of the show we’ll be taking calls more or less constantly but you’re going to be competing with a bunch of other callers for those one or two available phone lines. If you really want to, give it a try (just don’t hold your breath or get frustrated if you don’t get through). And we usually stop taking calls about a half hour before the end of the show. I’ll still answer the phone, but will just let you know that we’re done for the week and direct you to our online message boards.
One last thing, blocked numbers...we do NOT keep records of anyone who calls us but if you’re worried use CallTheShow (see the link above). Some call screeners will immediately hang up on blocked numbers because that is a very common sign of a prank caller. I will usually at least talk to the caller but as I’ve been burned before I’ll be very suspicious of your motives and will hang up the second my Spidey-sense starts tingling.
Next time...the gathering of data
theists struggling with reality....huh!
Thanks!
I would love to call, but I'm an Atheist so... I have no emotional story about how I get to leave religion or problem with family or society in general by being an atheist, I never like the concept of afterlife to begin with so no fear of hell, so I prefer to listen theist caller than just say Hi.
Someone pin this comment perhaps so that it doesn't get lost in the shuffle?
@Biased Lemmings Don't bother, he's a stupid troll without any substance.
The burden of proof is on the claimant. You have to prove the positive (God exists) not the negative. Same with a crime, no one sets out to prove a crime didn't take place, it has to be proven that something happened, otherwise nothing happened. This confuses the religious.
I think the last caller is one of two things; Either a Muslim's advocate but secretly atheist, and getting Matt to answer him the way he expects or is an actual Muslim and on the verge of becoming an atheist.
I say this because he was quite open and calm about hearing the responses. This is very unlikely for any typical indoctrinated person. He sounded almost satisfied with Matt's answers, which is unusual. He either went into a safe place in his mind, and responded artificially while in the zone, or is genuinely accepting and learning how to think.
Hi ACA, all the way from singapore. Been watching you guys for 4 yrs now.
And you are as confused as most people are watching this confusing dribble
Seems like the callers, for the most part, are confused. What's confusing to you, exactly? @@roberttango914
Theist logic: a Spiritual being created a natural Universe (space/time)
Atheist logic: Universe make self from nothing🤦♂️
JT Abeyta
Yeah that first one sounds very unlikely.
@@jtabeyta2040
Maybe you should read up on the book 1st. Sound bites are not everything.
Thanks guys for spreading awareness and critical thinking
@Truth Matters which clowns?? Priests?
Truth Matters
They need to wake up and smell the coffee.
Sweet, Islamist coffee.
We both know Allah will save us.
@Truth Matters why do you think that?
@Truth Matters what false things did they say in this video?
All they were asking for is some proof to determine which book has myths and which book has truth
@Truth Matters I don't believe in dragons or mermaids. Do you think I have a burden of proof to PROVE mermaids and dragons aren't real? Is it up to me to search every cave and every lagoon in the world to make sure there's no dragons/mermaids? ... no, it's not my job. The burden is on the person making the positive claim of 'X' existing. Why? Because it's impossible to disprove the non-existence of stuff. So if you believe in god, you need to stop whining and show evidence to support your supernatural beliefs.
Calls start at 23:15
I've been watching the show for two years and have thought that the Bat Cruise was a nerdy Texas atheist take on a local comic-con. I had no idea that you were out observing bats in the wild.
If you want to see something black, flying and spectacular,... the next time you come to Vancouver, BC, Canada, take an hour to watch the nightly migration of (15,000 to 20,000) Crows from all over, to Deer Lake in Burnaby. Colloquially, is it called the Mass Murder. - "murder" of crows people... :-)
Imagine a cop overhearing a guy just back from a vacation say they were at a “mass murder”...
That sounds cool! What time is it?
Also, what does the mass murder mean?
@@adamsilva9611 - around 8:30 This time of year. I usually get a few hundred (a murder of crows) passing my balcony on the 16th floor, but the big show (the "mass murder" of crows) is closer to Deer Lake, where they fly in from all directions.
@@pup1008 - Technically is it called a local mass migration, so you probably could use that terminology and be correct,... however, I did state above that the term "Mass Murder" was Colloquial.
@@pup1008 - Murder by Numbers - The Police, I believe that it's on the album Synchronicity.
I really enjoy letting people know I'm an atheist, I think it's great to win all the arguments and have people walk away flustered. Those that don't care, I call my friends, those that do care I call relatives.
@Truth Matters Let's start with the fact that I don't see sufficient evidence that your god exists. Can you provide any?
@Truth Matters If truth matters then maybe you can provide convincing evidence for your god.
If your god exists ask him what you should write next to convince me he is real. If he truly exists, he should be able to convey the perfect message.
Truth Matters
True. The almighty must be respected.
I know he has your love.
Praise Allah.
@Truth Matters There is no God but yours and the bible is true because it says so, ok, got it.
@Truth Matters Hey, it's truthus Maximus. Just renamed. Apparently. Only you have called God "non-contingent"
Dave Warnock is absolutely awesome. I hope he continues to Co host many, many more times. He and Matt make the best team ever.
Wow! Thanks, RetroReese!!
@@DaveOutLoud Absolutely, my friend!
Ismail was a great caller. Enjoyed the conversation. Matt was, as usual, spectacular.
I'm willing to bet Ismail is going to question his position extensively after this. And maybe, just maybe, he's gonna realize there's no justification for holding it. Amazing work, as usual, Matt!
I was looking for exactly this comment. I knew I wasn't the only one who sensed a sincerely inquisitive mind on the verge of breaking the spell of indoctrination.
@@joshuaduncan8834 He definitely had one of those "Huh!" moments. I sensed it, too.
Man, same here. I really enjoyed his style and apparent honesty
@@DeTreViseMaend Yes! Honesty! I totally agree with this. I felt he was genuinely honest and he didn't confront Matt with the usual arguments from ignorance/incredulity we're all pretty much sick of...
Watching your excellent show from the UK. Nothing like it over here. You do a fantastic job Matt, and all your guests. Love it!!!
If idiots like this guy Bronson could just say "I'm a believer because of these experiences I had which were so powerful… AND, I UNDERSTAND THEY IN NO WAY SERVE AS EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF A GOD… AND I HAVE NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR MY BELIEF… still… having had these experiences, I no longer have the choice to be a non-believer… my perspective has been permanently altered."
TAE wouldn't accept that as a good argument for a deity, but they would respect where the person was coming from, add this theist caller's testimony onto the heap of other unconvincing testimonials, anecdotes, and arguments for the existence of a god or gods, and move on to the next caller.
What's so hard about the intellectual honesty aspect of this?
Theism is systemically opposed to honesty. They simply cannot afford to be as their beliefs would be instantly exposed as false.
The last guy, Ismail, seems to be a really smart person. He seemed to listen and understand the points Matt and David were making. It's sad that he was raised into a religion - otherwise he would have the capacity to think about real problems (like a scientist for example). Instead he must try to prove something that is eventually wrong because his great mind gives him doubts and he is fearing the consequences of that doubts (e.g. a trip to hell).
Oh, and shout out to David, I love it when you're co-hosting the show. Especially in coop with Matt. He's the angry guy (no offense Matt, I love that, too) and you're adding the exact bit of fun and irony to his outbreaks :D
Greetings from Germany, thanks to everyone who makes this show happen :)
Some Islamic Countries kill Atheists. So, maby that's why Ismail is acting so cautiously?
@@hegyak Generally speaking you're right, I guess. But Ismail is from South Africa (so it shouldn't be such a problem in this case, I hope).
But even then, of course, he won't fear the hell after death but the hell his community might give him, too.
Thank you, Matt!! Your response to the "honey flowed over me" guy was perfect. You answered him the way many of us wish we could question our family and friends about their absurdities.
And, David, my neuro disorder is nowhere near as severe as yours so I'm deeply impressed by the way you're handling it. "Dying out loud" is a terrific statement, and I'm going to look for your blog and writings.
"I didn't sit in the front row because i was rebellious"😂
Bronson said he was rebellious by not sitting in the front row in church, he might be a little sheltered.
When did the water cycle start? (1:30:00 or so) - Answer when the Earth had cooled enough so that water vapor could condense into clouds and form the first rain. Probably about 4BY ago. We might not know if it was a Thursday but we understand the Science involved. Not so with any imagined god.
Good host pairing and yet another damn good show
Thanks jkd Tony!
1:06:38 "If your God tells you to say: Look at the trees"
(Matt bursts out laughing) < One of the BEST things I've seen of Matt by the way :)
*Your God's dumber than I thought*
WELL SAID
EDIT// I honestly think the Christian response: "Look at the trees" Should be a labelled fallacy on its own.
@deadend I know, but I want the old: Oh that's the 'look at the trees' fallacy :D All on its own.
Ok it might be asking too much.
@@kimsland999 You can coin the look at the trees fallacy if you want. These are informal fallacies anyway.
@@FinneousPJ1 SOLD, I'll accept 'informal fallacy' Thanks.
They're grasping at straws, leaves and tree trunks with their fallacy :P
I think it already is labelled that. Even if only unofficially.
Really enjoyed the call with Ismail 👍
Yahweh? more like nahway
😄 That's a good one!
Meusana .....sounds more like cat meowing in a sana! in spanish...lol
I've always felt if people reject me or don't want to have anything to do with me for being an atheist then I probably don't want to have anything to do with them either. Yes I did feel some isolation but since adjusting my thinking I've made new friends and solidified old ones. When life gets overwhelming I can identify the issues roll up my sleeves and fix it IF it can be fixed, rather than wasting time on my knee pleading for someone else to fix it, Life is better than it was before.
Dave Warnock and Matt Dillahunty you are amazing keep doing what you do. Much love.
Truth Matters great comeback!! Typical theist
Truth Matters
You’re hurt, that much is clear.
Pray for Allahs forgiveness.
Thank you Kyle!
You guys have fans in South Africa too!
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy...its working........wooooooohoooooooooo
This show need translation in other languages. Freaking great show
@@vinhqngouoc absolutely, ive been toying with the idea of asking their permission to do a similar one here in afrikaans because it's the only other language i know. But it would be awesome to get other languages in as well.
@@ElroyMF1 Great idea..iam a South African currently leaving the US
I actually believe there are no gods. Thus, I would have the burden of proof in a formal debate, as I would in my claim that I don't believe that fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, or dragons exist. I can't imagine actually having to defend my believe that there are no fairies. I feel the same about the existence of any gods, thus I would be unsuited to be in a formal debate. Just shake my head and walk away.
all those mythologies are same category, just man made creations until proven real
Phillip Moore The difference between ”I believe there is no god” and ”I know there is no god”.
All of these were good replies. I'm a retired biologist and there was never entire certainty. I believe Lennart's sense of "know" suggests entire certainty. Generally a 95% confidence result is often misinterpreted in common language as "scientifically proven". There is no such thing. Science simply works exceptionally well. Well enough that here we exchanged a short conversation electronically on our computers.
@Warstar My Lord! What silly University did that nonsense to their curriculum? I have three degrees (math, education, biology), but no University ever mentioned any god.
"as I would in my claim that I don't believe in fairies, unicorns, leprechauns, or dragons exist" That one isn't the same claim as saying "I actually believe there are not gods". It has no burden.
Having honey poured over yourself sounds like an unpleasant experience at best. If bees are involved, it becomes traumatic.
If god only exist outside of space and time, doesn't that mean that he doesn't exist anywhere and anywhen?
YUP
@Truth Matters thanks for clearing that up.
@Truth Matters Ok apologies. I am British and we are the only tribe who really get irony and sarcasm. What you posted was nonsense.
pinball1970 Sarcasm flies so far over TH-cam believers’ heads it orbits the planet.
@Truth Matters look sir, what you posted had no Scientific value. I was just pointing that out.
Dave is awesome!!! Hope he continues to make appearances on the show! Also, Matt taking calls after streaming is over ... He clearly loves what he does. Good job Matt
Thanks! Yes, Matt very much cares about what he is doing- and each caller. Big heart!
2:45 Matt says "Pizza and fun", as if they're two separate things...
Wouldn't it be nice if there were as many shows like this one as there are churches ?
I appreciate the aca for the good work proving a secular word is a just and caring world. It can be a far better world when we are accountable for our thoughts and actions as you must think first then act. People need to appreciate this life for what it is not look for something that they assume to be coming. If you want to believe in an afterlife fine but should accept we all get this one for sure and we should do what we can with what we know.
Well said. Good words to live and act by.
As an Atheist, I have a question for the Christens. If Jesus atoned for our sins, our sins are supposed to be forgiven. So, WHAT was the point of Hell ? If Jesus took care of all of it, there shouldn't be any hell.
Good Point!
“Hell” isn’t even in the Bible. The word hell does not appear in the Greek New Testament; instead one of three words is used: the Greek words Tartarus or Hades, or the Hebrew word Gehinnom.
While these three terms are translated in the KJV as "hell" these three terms have three very different meanings.
Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead" or "grave". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.
Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnom", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.
Tartaróō (the verb "throw to Tartarus", used of the fall of the Titans in Illiad 14.296) occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of the fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.
@@AC-gb7do TFW when the Atheist knows the Bible better then a Christian.
@@AC-gb7do I know that sheol also translates to Saul.
As an atheist, I don't believe in hell, whereever the concept came from. Christians have the burden of proof that there is a hell. Thank You for all your responses, and I am sorry for my slow responses, but I had to walk my puppy.
I am really glad that through Internet you can spread the idea of atheism and being open minded.
Love from Europe!
Welcome.
much love...right back across the pond......have a wonderful day
Theist logic: a Spiritual being created a Natural Universe (time/space)
Atheist logic: Universe make self from nothing
@@jtabeyta2040
In my opinion NOTHING is much greater than all spiritual fucks-up.
Its a closed mind belief ...Atheism
Another master class in how to think by Dillahunty.
I'm so happy New Zealand is secular
Ppl like Bronson are a minority here
Thank god!
@Tom H I did it deliberately as tongue in cheek here
@Warstar
When I say "Goddamnit" I am, in fact, being hopeful that some god does exist and that it actually will damn it.
No success yet... but one day.
@Warstar
One day, I will be thinking of the right god when I say it and it will happen.
And who will dare to say no to me then, with that kind of power under my control? Nobody! I shall make the rules.
@Warstar
Honestly, if I were a god, I would randomly appear to different people in different parts of the world just to see how many different religions I could get about me and see how different they were.
I mean, could you just imagine how boring eternal life would be otherwise?
@Warstar
Yeah, eternal life sounds like the worst possible thing. There is only so much to do, after all, so what do you do once you have done everything? Do it again? Ok, then do it another billion times... what now? Do it all again? Forever?
Fuuuuuck that.
Yay! Matt and Dave 💕
People cheering at the beginning today was louder than usual, or maybe my headphones are louder than usual... Either away I'm a little deaf now. GET UP YELLING PEOPLE, SHOW OUR HOSTS SOME APPRECIATION.
Hello from China!
Say all you want about this country. Many things will be justified (many others not), but one thing I do enjoy here is the lack of religion. Everything is very pragmatical.
Truth Matters
Good girl.
Hi back. Religious contagion varies across the West. Scandinavian countries are highly secular. Countries like Canada and Australia have many doubters, but still plenty of believers around. America has a huge population of religionists, and, Matt, in Texas, is religionist central.
The comments section is the after-show.
Bingo.
why i am here......
David rocks!!! Please make him a regular with Matt. Great chemistry together!
Thank you Grant! I look forward to coming back!
1:14:36 While it was a good show overall this bit irked me.
It is _not_ that some people _mistake_ atheism to mean that it claims there is no god - it literally _does_ that depending on context - it is that some people assume that you mean that when you say you are an atheist. Maybe they are not even aware that an atheist in the colloquial sense does not necessarily meet the definition given in a book about philosophy.
And in practice it does not even make much of a difference wether you claim that there is no god or you just don't accept the claim that there is a god: as long as you understand yourself as an atheist in either sense of the word chances are you won't go to church services or perform any religious rites just in case that there is some god. In either case you probably live your life as if you believed that there is no god even if you won't make that claim directly.
So, if you are an atheist just be ready to clarify your position, just as a theist would have to elaborate on what kind of god belief they hold. And on that last note: "I believe in the god of the bible." does not even come close to a sufficient clarification, dear Christians. In case you didn't notice, there are countless denominations believing in vastly different things who all profess to believe in the god of the bible which should give you an idea about how "good" this book really is. ;)
You're simply wrong my friend it is an important distinction.
There's a great difference between I don't believe in a God and I believe no gods exists, even in a coloquial sense.
Imagine an evangelical Christian comes up to you and you identify as an Atheist,
By saying "Your God nor any others exist" you're putting yourself in direct conflict with them, telling them that they're wrong about something that they value dearly, besides the fact that they'll promptly ask for proof that there's no God.
Instead by saying "I don't believe in any" that's a way more humble position, you don't adopt a burden of proof, (which you don't have to do) and you don't put yourself in direct conflict with the religious person (Though not everyone will take it the same way).
As far as living as though there's no God well of course, why would you be beholden to a God that you don't believe in? And which one?
You're wrong. The definition of atheism is simply not believing. There's no assumptions on whether or not any god is real. I don't have a problem clarifying my position as an atheist, but when I do, I also expect to be taken at my word. I DON'T believe in god. But I'm also NOT claiming it's not real. I don't think it's real, but that's separate from an assertion that it's not real.
As @diego torres said, there's a difference between "I don't believe" and "I believe there's none". The former is the default, basic definition. The latter is the - RARE - atheist who expands on it from their personal perspective. Someone expanding on something doesn't alter the definition of that something. It's just their own added anecdote.
Perhaps you believe it means that because you assert there is no god, but you are wrong about the majority of atheists. We DON'T assert it.
Yes, you should be able to clarify your position. Just as members of the same exact church can have different beliefs in how to serve god. This is something they have said many times. Your whole post was pointless.
@@Richard-jm3um I don't think that even in the situation you described there is that much difference except for the burden of proof. Philosophically there is an important distinction between "I don't believe in your god." and "I believe your god doesn't exist.", and that changes your buden of proof, but if you talk to a believer in a colloquial setting the message he receives is pretty much the same. And as you yourself say so are your everyday actions for the very reason you say.
And I would never argue that a situation where the burden of proof would come up both versions are the same. The "I don't believe..." position is way more comfortable in that regard, but such debates are not exactly your everyday situation unless you feel compelled to make it so.
What I would also refrain from saying is that "I don't believe in any gods" is a way more humble position. Humility would imply that you have a choice to do otherewise. But you don't choose what you believe. So, either you are only telling a half-truth when you merely say "I don't believe in gods." instead of "I believe gods don't exist." or you are simply stating the truth of the matter and had no motivation to make any greater claim in the first place.
Personally, I would feel dishonest if I stated "I don't believe in your god." instead of "I believe your god doesn't exist.", because the latter is what I actually believe unless we talk about some sort of ninja god who has the wish and the ability to remain hidden.
@@mischarowe That is the _colloquial_ definition of atheism, and I think it perfectly suffices for your everyday setting.
However, in philosophy atheism is more commonly understood as the belief that gods do not exist.
That does not invalidate your understanding of the term, but it _does_ contradict the claim that it would be a mistake to understand atheism as the belief that gods do not exist as this is a valid definition of the word even if it would not be the applicable one in your particular case.
I am not sure how you could understand my comment as saying that _only_ the philosphical definition was the correct one. The whole point of me saying that you should be ready to clarify your position was that you _can_ describe yourself as an atheist in either case.
Quantum physics: the electron either went through the left or right slit- a direct logical negation and yet if not observed it goes through both. That's why it's a good idea to always add on "or something else that I can't think of", at the end. We're still, of course, left in a position where the burden is on the claim maker and the proof for a good is insufficient.
If Jesus died for our sins, why do people still have to worry about sin and going to heaven or hell? The price has been paid. Answer: because what Jesus' death paid for is sacrificing animals. That's all. We no longer had to do that, but apparently we are all still bad people (born sinful, even little babies who can get leukemia or Down's syndrome). What a racket! Why doesn't God send the Holy Spirit to die for that atrocious thinking?
Glen Hill, not only that, why do they have to baptize children?
If he died for our sins, why does the bible say to stop sinning?
We should be sinning constantly so that Jesus gets what he fucking paid for.
@@rpg896 Not all Christians baptise children.
If sapiens evolved from apes, why are there still apes...?
@@notwhatiwasraised2b Yeah ... right on, man. If all land vertebrates evolved from fish, why are there still fish? Any ancestor on the tree of evolution which gave rise to later species HAS TO GO EXTINCT. Just so obvious.
Sometimes if I feel that the people around me are very religious and the whole concept of being an atheist will kill the conversation, I simply tell them that I'm an "Ironic Catholic" (it always gets a huge laugh as I was actually raised Roman Catholic...) but which allows me to stay in the conversation as (purportedly) "one of them" yet "troll" them in reverse and introduce "scandalous" concepts of doubt and skepticism that otherwise would have been ignored outright the moment I tell them (to their shock and disbelief!!) that I'm (the non-believer)is the "normal" one and they (the believers) are living in a fantasy world... It actually works very well more often than not...
I hope and [don't] pray you find the comfort level needed to at least one day say "I'm not religious" and not be ostracised from the conversation. :)
Got a Billy Graham video ad on this... AND a link to donate! LOL! 😆
@Dan Ryan Over -$9,000!
@Dan Ryan Apparently it was so great my brain experienced a floating point overflow and the $$$ went negative!
Theist logic: a Spiritual being created a natural universe (time/space)
Atheist logic: Universe make self from nothing🤦♂️
@@jtabeyta2040 Incorrect. In the sense you're speaking, atheism is merely a rejection of theism. Atheism as a philosophy says nothing about the origin of the universe. I fixed it for you:
Theistic Logic: "We don't know so lets make up a fictional story to help us feel better about our ignorance and lack of interest in doing the brain-work to discover the truth."
Scientific Logic: "We don't know. That's okay. We will try to find out."
@Dan Ryan I wouldn't say "lack". That could imply that theists have something atheists don't. In general, atheists reject the concept of the supernatural due to zero supporting evidence.
I like your cut in with the atheists speaking and David Wornock is so engaging, I hope he's embraced for a long time.
Thanks NickTalk!!!
Nice looking day in Austin. I miss it. Mostly I miss hill country BBQ and the stuffed avocado from Trudy's.
I wanted to go to the bat crews so bad, hope I can organize to go next year. :) Great episode sending love to David.
God how some people can just waffle about nothing on and on ( 39:00). 🙄
The ACA NEEDS to make Matt, Eric, Dan, and Jamie plushies :)
The most profound comment,
"You never know with god." ~David Warnock
Dave's back!❤❤
If you make a positive existence claim, i.e that something exists, you have a burden of proof. What is a burden of proof? If you believe something exists, you have reasons for that belief. The burden of proof is simply giving the evidence that convinces you, that's it.
Other people only have a burden of judging how valid or convincing that evidence is for the claim. They do not have a burden of finding evidence to disprove the claim,a claim that something exists must be supported by the evidence given. Belief and knowledge are just a sliding scale of confidence, knowledge is not fundamentally different than belief. Saying that not believing the claim that gods exist does not have a burden of proof is correct. Saying that if you claim to know there are no gods has a burden of proof is just wrong. Disbelief is always a response to a positive claim of existence, it isn't a positive claim of existence so it can't have a burden of proof. The level of disbelief doesn't change anything, it certainly doesn't magically change it into the opposite kind of claim.
Addendum:
After reading some of the few rational responses in this post, I need to make this clearer. "Burden of proof" is an awful, inaccurate term that is causing all this confusion. It isn't some kind of onerous burden, and it isn't proof, which is an absolute term that can only exist in completely defined systems, like mathematics or games.
If you believe something exists, then you have been convinced by some reason(s). The "burden of proof" is just a pompous sounding way of saying "why?" It is merely that to convince me you are right, you need to give the evidence, and explain why this evidence convinces you that something exists.
As Matt says often: " What do you believe and why?" which is a much clearer way of saying "burden of proof."
The person responding to this claim should assess the evidence, how well it supports, NOT proves, the claim, and determine if the characteristics claimed are coherent, known to be possible, are not inherently incompatible, etc. They assess how solidly the evidence supports, or doesn't support the claim. If they are not convinced by the evidence presented that the claim is true, they should explain why the evidence presented does not, or how poorly, supports the claim, and why they came to their conclusion on the claim.
If you want to call that a "burden of proof" then it doesn't matter how convinced you are that something exists or not; from "I believe it could exist" through "I'm convinced it exists", or "I'm not convinced" through "I am convinced it doesn't exist", EVERYBODY has a "burden of proof".
If you want to separate the process of presenting evidence (burden of proof) and accessing the evidence (burden of disproof?) Then any claim that something exists has a burden of proof, and disbelief does not. This idea that the level of disbelief, saying "I don't believe" vs "I know that something isn't true" is somehow 180 degrees opposite, but oddly, saying "I believe" vs "I know something exists" has exactly the same requirements is just bizarre.
Please stop saying that you don't believe a god exists in order to avoid a burden of proof. It makes atheists sound like they are cowards, avoiding the burden of proof that they put on theists, because they are just as unable to meet it. It isn't needed, and why in the world are you giving theists ammunition against atheists when it isn't even true?
if you say "I know there is no god". then you do have a burden of proof because you are claiming knowledge, you have to demonstrate that this knowledge is true.
@Frances Snowflake No, that's not how atheism works. Atheism is NOT saying "There is no god" Atheism only says that there is no good reason to believe in a god. It is anti-theism that says there is no god.
When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim.
Christian: God exists.
Sane people: Let’s see the evidence.
C: Look at the trees/humans/Earth, “I know he’s real, he speaks to me”
SP: So, no evidence then?
Why is this simple concept so damn hard for believers to grasp?
@Frances Snowflake Yes athiests have a burden of proof to prove their position
this is easily done. Hook me up to a lie detector ask if I believe in god, I answer "NO"
machine comes back I'm telling the truth. My position is proved....
I don't know if a god exists but I do know that the christian god doesn't exist. The bible is not true. We know the universe was not made in 6 days, there was no Adam and Eve, no great flood. Noah didn't live to 950 y.o. there is no records of the Hebrews being slaves in Egypt. None of the gospel authors ever met Jesus and the first gospel was written at least 40 years after his death.
On Matt's example for infinities: all three are all of the same "size"; they are countable (you can order them and get to any number) unlike irrational numbers for example
Günter Henning Wilde Ration vs. Irrational would be better... True.
we watch you here in australia as well
We certainly do!
I'm not a morning person (for various reasons) and am fast asleep when it airs. The videos uploaded here makes it reach more places. (I'm Australian too, btw.)
Yup
GREAT EPISODE
Matt, Dave and the Crew 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍❤
Thanks!
I think the arrow paradox is really more of an issue with language and confusing the nature of cause and effect in time than a real paradox... if you turn it around, the paradox disappears.
let's say, just for the sake of argument, that the smallest segment of time we can measure is 1/128 of the distance the arrow travels. Then we are looking at the arrow traveling 1/128th of the distance, then 1/64th of the distance, then 1/32th of the distance, then 1/16th of the distance, then 1/8th of the distance, then 1/4 of the distance, then 1/2 if the distance then the whole distance... doesn't seem so hard to grasp that way does it?
And yes, of course we can measure segments of time or distance much smaller, but it still works the same way. It's not surprising when you phrase it in the right direction, it's just the backwards manner in which is is presented that makes it seem impossible.
You also have to take into account the fact that it takes much less time to travel 1/128th than 1/64th and so on... when you are stating the paradox, it takes the same or even longer to explain each step, but in reality, it would take far less for each step you take "back" in the chain of cause /effect... but you kind of miss that when it's being explained in language.
1:05:03
Well said, Dave...
Thank ya!
41:00 Quoting from the Nicene Creed again. A conclusion reached after several years of philosophy and religious debate in the fourth century. It concluded that there is only one 'Godhead' comprising three Gods and promoted ever since within the Holy Universal Roman Church and its offshoots. Ask a Coptic. As far as I am aware they don't believe Jesus was even Divine. The claim that Peter was the first Pope is gives Catholics false affirmation.
"Open mindedness is a great thing"
~David Warnock
The quote for the day
“Minds and parachutes work best when open..” I forgot who said this, but I’ve always liked it.
"A small mind is easily filled with faith." -Warhammer 40,000
That is just an assertion without the support of an argument. "Demonstrate it." Next, comes the problem of showing how it applies to the speaker (that is at least part of his point, right?).
Pwning You Wow, you’re stalking me, I’m flattered Nathan!
Pwning You I’m glad you appreciated the joke.
Have you guys thought about taping and releasing the after show calls? Would like see those arguments.
I'd like to see the aftershow at one of the restaurants; the mingling and crowd and conversations. I would LOVE to be there but an airline ticket is expensive. It's on my bucket list!
Did the opening theme song get remastered? Lil more reverb on the vocals? Sounds good.
I got a religious ad on this video 🤦♂️
Rick in North Carolina, FYI, Adolph Hitler was not born in Germany and he was a catholic.
To be fair we don't really know if he was a catholic.
@@The_Other_Ghost To be fair we don't really know if the pope is catholic
@@UPTHETOWN I agree.
@@The_Other_Ghost To be fair we can't actually be certain of anything.
@@hsw268 I'm not saying I thought he was a Christian or atheist, I'm just saying we should keep a skeptical mindset.
@1:07:06, if the callers were actually honest in this test, you will never get another theist caller ever!! Lol, I like what you did there.
"I am ordained by the pastafarians." - Matt
What a sentence
Re: ARGUMENT FOR A PRIME MOVER:
A CORRECTION OF THE MATH PRESENTED...
- Central to the argument is the purported impossibility of an "INFINITE REGRESS IN TIME".
- Zeno's Paradox of the Arrow can be offered as a counter (which Matt, and others, have done on occasion).
- Unfortunately, the example of INFINITE SETS was mathematically incorrectly presented. Plz, allow me - a math teacher - to clarify...
- SET THEORY is a foundation of math since GEORG CANTOR introduced the concept of TRANSFINITE ("beyond finite") in the 1800's. Matt was correct in stating that INFINITY is not a number, but a concept, and that this leads to some misunderstandings. Unfortunately, his example was incorrect: The set of positive integers, the set of negative integers, and the set of positive + negative integers are all the same "size" (or "CARDINALITY' in math terms). The set of REAL NUMBERS is though "bigger" (of higher cardinality). In fact, an infinitude of increasingly bigger sets can be constructed! The full details are beyond the scope of this post, but I would encourage any interested party to google "TRANSFINITE NUMBERS" to gain a deeper understanding. See also, HILBERT'S HOTEL.
- P.S. For those interested in the philosophical sense of INFINitY, see Aristotle: "POTENTIAL INFINITY" vs. "ACTUAL INFINITY".
IMO, Bronson in New Zealand is a time waster on the broadcast.
a well deserved hangup
At 1.04 I aplauded along with the audience.
Why is this video coming up when I search for David Silverman?
Ismail in South Africa, I believe in books too, Science books!
Educate yourself in Science and, especially, Critical Thinking.
'i dunno...he seemed intelligent and non-combative, and willing to listen to Matt, unlike most idiot theists...I rather liked that call :)
I love Ishmael "could you please take my burden of proof, even just for a little bit?"
YES! A woman in the background is wearing a Bernie 2016 shirt! I have the same shirt. I also have it in white! Feeling the Bern for 2020 because Hindsite is 2020.
Vote for Bern, after all, socialism is working so well for Venezuela. All you socialists should be forced to live somewhere like that for a bit and then come back here and see if you still want that system.
@@joecoolioness6399 Yes socialisim works very well like it did in Venezuela before USA started destabilizing the country in order to get more cheap oil. Plus of course the fact that they have been suffering so badly from our government doing nearly nothing to stop the massive human caused climate damage. Of course Venezuela isn't really the true success story of how we know that Socialisim works so well. 9 of the 10 countries with the best quality of life are Socialist countries. They of course are Iceland, Sweden, Italy, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Finland, The Netherlands, and of course Canada. We also know that USA was at it's best when it was the most socialist in the 1940's through the 1960's
As far as "forcing" me to live in one of those countries. If they would allow it and I could be free from the USA. I'd love that idea. I would never want to come back. Unfortunatly I'm stuck in this country with all these brainwashed republican morons like you who hate those things called "facts" and have done so much to destroy this once great country. So instead I'll combat you right winged idiots and fight to actually make America not only great again but better than it has ever been. The sad thing is that you will benifit from the actions of smarter people like me if we are successful, but still attack us for it and still whine because that is what you right winged morons do.
Of course you won't even bother looking at these facts and will just keep telling the same lies that you are told by your masters who are your real enimies and I just don't know what it takes to get through to you brainwashed idiots so that you will see and admit that you are wrong so that we can save this country from continuing in the wrong direction.
In Mathematics there are different Infinities. English is not my first language, so bear with me: There are infinite "Natural Numbers" but there are countably more "Real Numbers". So these are two different Infinities and the second one is actually larger then the first one.
If you want to see how and why and get your mind completely blown, look into "Cardinality".
Phew sure are a ton of trolls in the comments.
@deadend Idk if I could be considered new, been here a year. Then again, I still dont know what poe means.
We either need, Fire or Acid or maby a Goat. I hear Goats beat Trolls. I read about that once. The Fire and/or Acid is from the most Popular RPG.
@@wesleyAlan9179 Yeah still thinking on that one, and thanks mate.
@@hegyak So we need to sacrifice a bunch of goats to get rid of the trolls? Right on it!
@@blankaccount5073 Dude someone can never be at fault for " parroting" from sources they dont know they are " parroting" in the first place its quite literally impossible to copy someone you dont know you're copying without having severe delusions already.
Was Matt's view on infinite numbers right? I mean his arguement is right but the example wasn't. If you have the set of all negative and positive numbers, you can match them 1-1 with the set of just positive numbers so wouldn't they be the same size? Isn't the example better with decimals and whole numbers as you cant set them 1-1
In layman's terms, matter is made of gluons which "glue" quarks together, forming hadrons such as protons and neutrons. In technical terms, gluons are vector gauge bosons that mediate strong interactions of quarks in quantum chromodynamics (QCD). Gluons themselves carry the colour charge of the strong interaction. How do Creation theorist demonstrate what they have found so we can see it and examine it and measure it or just know their description has something to do with relating their god to these properties of matter or the four forces of energy electromagnetism , gravity, the weak and strong nuclear interaction. There must be a simple explanation with how their god uses these properties to do the miracles they claim are obvious. IF the creation shows the power of God then we have defined GOD, we have discovered him and know his power , we can measure Gods strength and see how he turns energy into matter and matter into flesh and life and it struggles to live and thrive. But the universe does not show a God of personal intervention or special creation rather a complex of energy mater and diversity of life with little regard toward the morality man kind has developed over time to form government and regulate the activities of human interaction. People not god create restraint to not kill others or steel from others this does not exist in the animal world except for those of blood line and then it is only a few animals that even demonstrate that little restraint. Mankind learns medical and surgical intervention and developed the viral bacterial and fungal antigens to heal and cure. These things are demonstrable.Where is the evidence for "spiritual morality" equal to that of mankind?
46:50 Original sin is bad programming. A naive couple broke the whole creation of a mighty god...
All classes inherits what an instance did... That could not have done by its class definition.
Lousy design!
CheapPhilosophy Naive is good descriptor, because A & E didn’t know about right & wrong, until after eating the forbidden fruit. And, even then, under temptation from a creation of god more intelligent than them in the guise of s talking snake.
At 1:38:18 Matt correctly points out to the caller (Ismail - South Africa) that all the referenced Abrahamic religions (Christian, Jewish, Muslim) are asserted without (sufficient) evidence, and the caller just breezes on past that and moves onto a previous point (infinite regress). I think that was a mistake. Matt should have nailed that down with the caller before allowing him to move on.
Hello from Europe, 3d generation Atheist, my grandfather did not like the church and that was before 1940 which was very controversial then !
Unbelievable.
I thought that religion- belief in gods- would be put in its grave when the internet and iPhone usage became commonplace.
To those who stubbornly insist on clinging to ancient myths, there’s no more I can say than:
“If you want to be stupid, it’s fine with me.”
Just don’t let your stupidity “poison” (Hitchens) the wellbeing of others.
HOLY SHIT! I never thought this was a literal proclamation.
Childhood indoctrination keeps the cult alive. Protect Our Children From Cults.
@hegyak:
My boy is 11. He started attending a church school because there are no other feasible English schools in the area. Bible study during normal class hours and Sunday service is mandatory.
He was asked if he believed in god on his first day and he made me proud.
He replied, “I could believe if I saw some evidence.”
Maybe he’s been watching Matt on his new iPhone.
iPhones...the greatest invention in my life... greater and more powerful than any god.
Even atheist believe in good and bad, if dont theyre not aware of life.
Its funny that only humans have the free will to do good or bad, all other creatures dont.
Prove me its fake.
This somehow means this life on earth is a kind of a test for humanity only.
A person that dont believe in God steals from his friend when he looks the other way.
A person who believes in God does anything good for his/her friend even if they’re not around because they know God is around.
They know about heaven and hell so they don’t want to get punished.
Does people who think in this way ever meet “karma”?. Atheists believe in that too right ;)
if You’re not looking for god yourself you will never see the signs.
I’m not sure of what exactly you’re getting at.
Morality existed long before religion or we would not have made it this far in spite of religion stifling knowledge. Ancient Baghdad was a center of higher learning with many documents (some survived) delving into the understanding of morality but christians destroyed them on the notion that it wasn’t possible to possess morality without Jesus.
Animals possess morality; a sense of right and wrong, fairness. It’s been clearly demonstrated.
Thousands of years have gone by without a single appearance of any god. And what was he doing during the billions of years before man invented religion? No one can disparage primitive man for praying to the sun or Zeus throwing lightning bolts for with all the knowledge they had, unfathomable matters were excusably attributed to the supernatural.
Cut to the chase - if there is a god or gods that care about man, he knows how to make his presence veritably known. All mankind would bow down.
I would ask him why he’s so:
Arrogant
Vain
Deceitful
Jealous
Insecure
Malicious
Immoral
Petty
Murderous
Vengeful...and more mortal garbage, not to mention all the traits of the 7 deadly sins.
All he (it) needs to do is come out from behind that curtain of Oz.
And if there’s anyone at all behind the curtain, like the Wizard, we’ll see that he’s but a mere, albeit clever mortal.
Bring him on. Come out, come out wherever you are.
If the knowledge of there being no god causes you to be lost and suicidal, disregard the above.
Make the most of precious life. Don’t squander it on hopes of an eternity with god or drooling over your virgins. As a counter to Pascal, what if there is nothing after death? You’ve wasted the most precious thing you have. Pursue a good life (for the wellbeing of humanity- or at least don’t oppose it) now while you can.
I leave you with some thoughts to ponder:
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”--Seneca, (Roman philosopher, mid-1st century AD)
“Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.”--Bertrand Russell
All religions bear traces of the fact that they arose during the intellectual immaturity of the human race before it had learned the obligation to speak the truth. Not one of them makes it the duty of its God to be truthful and understandable in his communications.
People don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed.--Friedrich Nietzsche
"How well we know what a profitable superstition this fable of Christ has been for us and our predecessors."--Pope Leo X Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici. Pope (1513-1521)
"Religion may be defined as a cultural, psycho-philisophical vehicle of spiritual and intellectual enslavement which has at its end: (1) The cultural and racial superiority of those who created it. (2) The paralysis of analysis by those who believe in it. (That means don't think, don't question, just accept the beliefs and doctrines on blind faith). (3) The perpetual empowerment of the agenda intended by it. The intended agenda is control over its believers". -Dr. Ray Hagins: (Professional Psychologist)
Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.
Kurt Vonnegut
Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
Isaac Asimov
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
Napoleon Bonaparte
The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
Thomas Jefferson
Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.
Christopher Hitchens
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Christopher Hitchens
Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man?
Friedrich Nietzsche
You are wrong about infinities. Integers are smaller infinity (no matter if we are talking about 0-> +inf, -inf->+inf or -inf->0) and all of those are equal. And we have bigger infinity - real numbers. And in math there is infinite numbers of infinities - see aleph number.
I recently decided to read through the Bible again. This time, though, I'm reading the Skeptic's Annotated Bible, which is probably the best way to read the Bible. I'm frankly amazed that I at one time believed that anything was true in this book. It now reads like bad fiction.
did you ever notice that when the ancient Hebrews sacrificed animals, God only seemed interested in the parts most people don't eat? You burn the blood and the guts and stuff, but weirdly, the priests get to keep all the meat, and of course, you can only sacrifice your best animals, not the runt of the litter or like that...
Made myself, into myself, to sacrifice myself, to myself to save myself from myself. And you too.
We need more Muslims like Ismail..
Don't feel sorry for me...I had good Miracles that God sent me......through prayers...My missing 13 year old granddaughter was found.n I Thank GOD...MY OLDER DAUGHTER CAME BACK RIGHT Before 911....n no one is going to stop us from praying...i am grateful.