I wouldn't really worry about the brand of the nib. Buy a pen you love. And brand and any model can have a rough nib, but the large majority will have good nibs, and companies stand behind JoWo and Bock nibs. If one isn't right, the company will make it right. As a rule, I am not fond of Bock nibs, primarily because of QC, but two of my favorite pens, a Kaweco Brass Sport, and a Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, have Bock gold nibs on them, and I love both pens.
I am not 100% positive, but I believe the first nib you show (on the Twsbi) is actually a Jowo nib and not a Bock Nib. While Twsbi used to use Bock nibs, they later changed to Jowo. I seem to remember the way to identify the difference is the marking for type (F, M, B etc..) - the Jowo places the mark on the top of the nib underneath the TWSBI lettering. The BOCK nibs have it on the left side of the nib by the T of Twsbi. Now this “MAY” only hold true for the #6 size nibs such as the Vac700 and may not be the case for the 580’s with their #5 nibs… I’m not positive.
The retailer from whome I bought this pen told me that this is a bock nib. And its a very well known retailer amongst the fountain pen community. Will double check though Thanks 🙂👍
@@Penandpapers I knew I have seen it somewhere before - a quick TH-cam search and I found the reference where I saw it before from Brian Goulet... Hope it helps - th-cam.com/video/7nt34OQrHXk/w-d-xo.html
Waterman nibs are the best(ST Dupont also comes to mind). Last but not least, some chinese nibs(especially the EF variety) are amazingly good and easily surpass western nibs, even the Japanese have a hard time keeping up.
@@jomeson4081Checkout #fountainpentherapy here on TH-cam! He just published a „top 10 Chinese fountain pens of 2023“ video. Hongdian and Jinhao as well as Majohn and Wing Sung come to mind. They’re cheapest from AliExpress, but also found on eBay, Amazon, Etsy, etc.
Very good demonstration of nibs. I’ve used some nibs from all three and the variability of the inking and smoothness overlaps enough that it’s a little hard to draw a conclusion. I can generalize more about Aurora nibs because there is so little variation. I tune the nibs I don’t completely like and German nibs are all capable of working very well. I think of them as a family of nibs.
@@Penandpapers Can't fault you at all for that. Honestly, I'm far more concerned about the pen than with who makes the nib/ If I love a pen, the nib will work out. If I don't love a pen, even a great nib doesn't make up for it.
Quite frankly if we’re talking about 3rd party bib makers. Bock easily takes the win in every regard. This isn’t even about personal preference just the consistent quality, compared to Jowo. Schmidt isn’t even in the running. It’s really only a debate between bock and jowo
I am about 99.9999999% sure that you are backwards on Bock vs. JoWo. JoWo nibs are almost universally stiffer and smoother than Bock. TWSBI uses JoWo, not Bock.
Thank you, I just subscribed right now. Thank you for making this video, I love a Jowo nib, do twsbi use Bock? What country do you live in? I am from Canada.
Thanks for subscribing 🙂 When I bought the vac700 the retailer told me that its a bock nib but as pointed out by one of the members, it could be a Jowo nib as well , however the writing experience is totally different from other Jowo nibs I have in my collection.
First, there really is no such thing as a Schmidt nib. Nibs labeled Schmidt are always either JoWo or Bock, depending on the line. Schmidt does not make any nibs itself. Second, TWSBI nibs are JoWo, not Bock. The confusion is probably caused because way, way back when, TWSBI used Bock nibs, but all modern TWSBI pens use JoWo. I prefer JoWo, though I will say that it depends on the company buying the nibs. With JoWo or Bock, a company pretty much gets what it pays for. TWSBI nibs, for instance, are made by JoWo, and they are almost always excellent. Conklin nibs are also made by JoWo, and while many of them are very, very good, too many of themof them are pretty rough. TWSBI nibs are also wider and wetter for the same size nib than are Conklin nibs. Both are fine, but it shows that a company does get what it asks for, and what it is willing to pay for. Bock nibs? They can be excellent. But they can also be horrible. The QC on Bock nibs is just nowhere near as good as it should be, and far too many terrible nibs slip through. But the steel nibs are usually cheaper than JoWo nibs, which may be the problem. Some nig brands, such as Visconti, had problems with Bock gold nibs, and even more so with Bock steel nibs, for several years. Visconti has solved the problem with gold nibs, it seems, but the bock steel nibs they buy are still lacking in QC. Really, though, given my druthers, I usually find in-house nibs to be better made, and to have much better QC, than either JoWo or Bock. Pilot is a prime example. Not only are they usually excellent, their gold nibs are much cheaper while still being better made. Of course, when a company has a division such as Namiki, making perfect nibs is pretty much mandatory. Pilot's gold nib pens start at under a hundred dollars with the Elite 95s, run up to almost a thousand dollars with Pilot branded pens, and go up to more than fifteen thousand dollars with the Namiki pens. It's no wonder they're so good.
Thank you for this more complete information, and for the finer distinctions I've never heard about before. When you refer to 'in-house' nibs, do you mean manufactured from scratch or just tuned? The two best nibs I have are both on Franklin Christoph pens, one ground by Mike Matsuyama, and both refined for my specific preferences by Jim Rouse, sadly no longer with us. Almost forgot my Platinum music nib, which kick-started the fountain pen part of my life; Brian Goulet talked me into it.
Nice review. Because Chinese nibs have been historically mediocre to crud, they are overlooked. Today's offerings from Hong Dian, Jinhao and Wing Sung among others are worth considering.
No, not really. Too many think a smooth nib means a good nib, and it isn't true. Chinese nibs have become much smoother, but they are still made from thin, extremely low=grade stainless steel. Worse, so is the tipping. I can wear down the tipping enough to interfere severely with the writing in six months on every Chinese nib I've tested. Four months on a couple of occasions. The tipping on a typicale brand name steel nib made in the west takes four years to wear down to the same extent. The rest of Chinese pens also use very cheap materials. The plastic often looks spectacular, but even when they call it "resin", it's still just cheap plastic. The same is true of what China calls "acrylic". Worse yet, the "brass" used in Chinese pens is so cheap, so low-grade, and so soft that it doesn't even qualify as brass by western standards. Scrape the barrel on a Chinese pen and there's a good chance you'll find dings and dents that are perfectly hidden by the shrink wrap. Compare that brass to the brass on something like the Kaweco Brass Sport. You can tell at a glance that they aren't even the same metal. A Chinese friend of mind who is highly involved in Chinese pen manufacture says that Chinese manufacturers are excellent at making beautiful children's toys that they sell to outsiders as adult tools. He is exactly right, and they are proud of being able to do this. Chinese fountain pens are certainly usable, but if you're at all wise the first thing you'll do is put a western nib on them. Seriously, think about. It costs less than a dollar to manufacture most of the pens you mentioned. Under two dollars to manufacture the best of them. Not even China with it's inhuman wages can make anything out of high level materials at that price. Now, I don't buy Chinese pens because I don't want a penny of my money going to fund ongoing genocide, political imprisonment, government sponsored muggings, "disappearing" of whistleblowers and dissidents, child labor, and other atrocious human rights violations. I also don't like helping to pay for a military buildup that includes producing thousands of nuclear weapons while the rest of the world is trying to eliminate nuclear weapons. But we each have to make our own decision about such things. I wouldn't buy Chinese pens, anyway, because they really are made from very cheap materials, some of these pens actually cost fifty cents in China, they really are beautiful children's toys sold to outsiders as adult tools. There are other pretty cheap, and far higher quality pens out there. Even name brand companies have some very cheap, very good pens made from far better materials. India is also making some incredible pens at very, very low prices considering the materials used, such as solid ebonite. And FPR has nibs and matching feeds at dirt cheap prices. I don't think there's a better flex nib on the market than the FPR Ultra Flex. Too, save your money and buy something really nice. I stopped drinking coffee, Capuchino, soft drinks, and bottled water when away from home and save fifteen dollars a week. I put ten in a Christmas account, three in a jar at home, and put two back in the family budget. I could have bought a very nice pen at the end of a year, but I rolled it over for a second year. At the end of two years, I bought a Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, a Pilot Custom 823, and a Platinum 3776. Even five dollars per week will buy the 823 and the 3776 after two years, Really, how many hundred cheap Chinese pens does it take to be worth even the 823, let alone the Bronze Age?
James, I agree with you concerning the quality of the materials and overall product of the Chinese pens but the reality is that for most buyers these pens will not see more than a few hours of service in their lifetime. As for your political statement, although you were attempting to describe China, it hits close to home. Regardless, I learned from your comment and appreciate you taking the time. Thank you.
Can you suggest how is ASA Orion with Schmidt Nib? It is costing for Rs 1450. Is it good at the price? Your suggestions are also welcome, my budget is Rs 1500. Also, I am new to the fountain pen world.
Hi Avinash I haven't used ASA Orion but Schmidt nibs are generally good. Other pens Under 1500 rs are 1. Sheaffer no nonsense this comes around 600-800rs 2. Jinhao 100 3. For eyedroppers Mohi Aura
Bock is on more pens, but that's hardly an indicator of quality. Kaweco and Visconti both use Bock, and the problems they've had with nibs over the last few years doesn't say much for Bock QC. Visconti is aid to have put its big foot down and Bock is now giving them much better gold nibs, but the steel nibs on cheap Visconti are pretty bad, and the fine and extra fine Kaweco nibs have far too frequent problems. I absolutely love my Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, and it has a spectacular nib, but others haven't been so lucky. I do think Visconti has solved the problem, but for a while there Bock just wasn't delivering. I also have a Kaweco Brass Sport. I liked the pen enough that I bought a Kaweco gold nib for it. The gold nib is way, way overpriced when compared to other gold nibs of the same size, but I really liked the Brass Sport, so I bought one. It was not smooth at all, and an overpriced gold nib should be smooth. But I've worked on nibs for a long time, and I can do anything from smoothing to grinding, and I smoother it out quickly. It's now one of my daily carry, take anywhere and everywhere pens. My expoerience with working on nibs is that JoWo nibs are, on the whole, better made and solider than Bock nibs, and have better tipping. But both companies produce very, very good nibs, and my only real complaint with Bock nibs is that QC is nowhere near as good as it is with JoWo nibs. That said, a company wanting either brand is going to get what it pays for, just a little more so with JoWo.
![NISAMANEE - TADA (ท้าดา) [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hcQHEPMmJpU/mqdefault.jpg)
Was always seeking a comparative video on these nibs. Good work.
Thanks Michael 🙂👍
I wouldn't really worry about the brand of the nib. Buy a pen you love. And brand and any model can have a rough nib, but the large majority will have good nibs, and companies stand behind JoWo and Bock nibs. If one isn't right, the company will make it right. As a rule, I am not fond of Bock nibs, primarily because of QC, but two of my favorite pens, a Kaweco Brass Sport, and a Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, have Bock gold nibs on them, and I love both pens.
My only real complaint about bock is they dont print the gauge on the nib?? fine/med/etc....
Include kanwrite also.
Will do a seperate review for Indian made nibs 🙂👍 Thanks for the suggestion
@@Penandpapers then include ambitious nibs and krishna nibs also.
I would love to see what fountain pens are made there and company names, which are the best pens that are smooth wet writers like Jovo or Pilot.
Would definitely make a Video on that very soon along with the contact details of the retailers
@@Penandpapers Thank you, I look forward go it!!
I like Pilot nibs .(Very smooth writers especially the Medium size ones).
Thank you for sharing and comparing the three manufactured nibs.
Good review. Just discovered the Schmidt fine nib on a Range Pen - by far the best nib I have, I would put Schmidt as No 1, then Bock, then Jowo
Very informative....I wish you had compared a couple of Indian nibs like Kanwrite and Ambitious too
I wanted to do a separate video about the same . Let's see when that happens
I am not 100% positive, but I believe the first nib you show (on the Twsbi) is actually a Jowo nib and not a Bock Nib. While Twsbi used to use Bock nibs, they later changed to Jowo. I seem to remember the way to identify the difference is the marking for type (F, M, B etc..) - the Jowo places the mark on the top of the nib underneath the TWSBI lettering. The BOCK nibs have it on the left side of the nib by the T of Twsbi. Now this “MAY” only hold true for the #6 size nibs such as the Vac700 and may not be the case for the 580’s with their #5 nibs… I’m not positive.
The retailer from whome I bought this pen told me that this is a bock nib. And its a very well known retailer amongst the fountain pen community. Will double check though Thanks 🙂👍
@@Penandpapers I knew I have seen it somewhere before - a quick TH-cam search and I found the reference where I saw it before from Brian Goulet... Hope it helps - th-cam.com/video/7nt34OQrHXk/w-d-xo.html
Hey I will update it in the discription and will make a seperate video on generic bock nib that I have thanks for correcting
I would agree. Jowo uses those swirls on their nibs.
My old TWSBI 540 has a Bock nib, with the marking on the left side.
Waterman nibs are the best(ST Dupont also comes to mind). Last but not least, some chinese nibs(especially the EF variety) are amazingly good and easily surpass western nibs, even the Japanese have a hard time keeping up.
Where would I find any of these Chinese nibs? Is there a certain pen I could buy?
@@jomeson4081Checkout #fountainpentherapy here on TH-cam! He just published a „top 10 Chinese fountain pens of 2023“ video. Hongdian and Jinhao as well as Majohn and Wing Sung come to mind. They’re cheapest from AliExpress, but also found on eBay, Amazon, Etsy, etc.
Very good demonstration of nibs. I’ve used some nibs from all three and the variability of the inking and smoothness overlaps enough that it’s a little hard to draw a conclusion. I can generalize more about Aurora nibs because there is so little variation. I tune the nibs I don’t completely like and German nibs are all capable of working very well. I think of them as a family of nibs.
True , none is better than the other. It all depends on ones personal preference. I personally love Aurora nibs 🙂
@@Penandpapers Can't fault you at all for that. Honestly, I'm far more concerned about the pen than with who makes the nib/ If I love a pen, the nib will work out. If I don't love a pen, even a great nib doesn't make up for it.
Thank you for making this video Great info for a newbie, into the fountain pen world, as myself🙂
Glad that you found it useful 🙂 Thanks and do subscribe for more such videos🙂
Quite frankly if we’re talking about 3rd party bib makers. Bock easily takes the win in every regard. This isn’t even about personal preference just the consistent quality, compared to Jowo. Schmidt isn’t even in the running. It’s really only a debate between bock and jowo
Great idea for a video, thank you!
I'm partial to Bock....but, Schmidt makes a nice fine. Never tried other nib size in theirs. Jowo I find boring.
I prefer Bock as well however Jowo has been become some consistent nibs for years now.
Idk which one I like more! I want all of them 😅
second one pen is so cute which pen is this?
Its Kaweco student 🙂
@@Penandpapers price?
It was around 4000 when I bought it , now they have increased the price I think
@@Penandpapers please share the website link for this pen
Do Parkers, Cross or Sheaffer manufacture their own nibs or are they also using from Bock, Jowo etc. Thanks.
They manufacture their own nib as far as I know
@@Penandpapers thanks Siddharth for the reply.
Where can buy jowo nib units in india?
It's available with ASA pens Chennai.
Is it available in India?
Yes the Nib unit is Available in India Bock nib unit is available with Ranga Pens and Jowo is available with multiple sellers
@@Penandpapers I checked with Ranga pens, they don’t sell separately the nib units
Schmidt fine is a little scratchy... But Schmidt medium is smooth. I find jowo best followed by bock and Schmidt
do any of these nibs compatible with the Majohn P136?
The JoWo should be
I am about 99.9999999% sure that you are backwards on Bock vs. JoWo. JoWo nibs are almost universally stiffer and smoother than Bock. TWSBI uses JoWo, not Bock.
Nice informative review..thank you
Thank you, I just subscribed right now. Thank you for making this video, I love a Jowo nib, do twsbi use Bock?
What country do you live in? I am from Canada.
Thanks for subscribing 🙂 When I bought the vac700 the retailer told me that its a bock nib but as pointed out by one of the members, it could be a Jowo nib as well , however the writing experience is totally different from other Jowo nibs I have in my collection.
Very well made and useful video
RS
Canada
Thanks Richard 🙂
Thanx
First, there really is no such thing as a Schmidt nib. Nibs labeled Schmidt are always either JoWo or Bock, depending on the line. Schmidt does not make any nibs itself.
Second, TWSBI nibs are JoWo, not Bock. The confusion is probably caused because way, way back when, TWSBI used Bock nibs, but all modern TWSBI pens use JoWo.
I prefer JoWo, though I will say that it depends on the company buying the nibs. With JoWo or Bock, a company pretty much gets what it pays for. TWSBI nibs, for instance, are made by JoWo, and they are almost always excellent. Conklin nibs are also made by JoWo, and while many of them are very, very good, too many of themof them are pretty rough. TWSBI nibs are also wider and wetter for the same size nib than are Conklin nibs. Both are fine, but it shows that a company does get what it asks for, and what it is willing to pay for.
Bock nibs? They can be excellent. But they can also be horrible. The QC on Bock nibs is just nowhere near as good as it should be, and far too many terrible nibs slip through. But the steel nibs are usually cheaper than JoWo nibs, which may be the problem. Some nig brands, such as Visconti, had problems with Bock gold nibs, and even more so with Bock steel nibs, for several years. Visconti has solved the problem with gold nibs, it seems, but the bock steel nibs they buy are still lacking in QC.
Really, though, given my druthers, I usually find in-house nibs to be better made, and to have much better QC, than either JoWo or Bock. Pilot is a prime example. Not only are they usually excellent, their gold nibs are much cheaper while still being better made. Of course, when a company has a division such as Namiki, making perfect nibs is pretty much mandatory. Pilot's gold nib pens start at under a hundred dollars with the Elite 95s, run up to almost a thousand dollars with Pilot branded pens, and go up to more than fifteen thousand dollars with the Namiki pens. It's no wonder they're so good.
Thank you for this more complete information, and for the finer distinctions I've never heard about before. When you refer to 'in-house' nibs, do you mean manufactured from scratch or just tuned? The two best nibs I have are both on Franklin Christoph pens, one ground by Mike Matsuyama, and both refined for my specific preferences by Jim Rouse, sadly no longer with us. Almost forgot my Platinum music nib, which kick-started the fountain pen part of my life; Brian Goulet talked me into it.
Nice review. Because Chinese nibs have been historically mediocre to crud, they are overlooked. Today's offerings from Hong Dian, Jinhao and Wing Sung among others are worth considering.
No, not really. Too many think a smooth nib means a good nib, and it isn't true. Chinese nibs have become much smoother, but they are still made from thin, extremely low=grade stainless steel. Worse, so is the tipping. I can wear down the tipping enough to interfere severely with the writing in six months on every Chinese nib I've tested. Four months on a couple of occasions. The tipping on a typicale brand name steel nib made in the west takes four years to wear down to the same extent.
The rest of Chinese pens also use very cheap materials. The plastic often looks spectacular, but even when they call it "resin", it's still just cheap plastic. The same is true of what China calls "acrylic". Worse yet, the "brass" used in Chinese pens is so cheap, so low-grade, and so soft that it doesn't even qualify as brass by western standards. Scrape the barrel on a Chinese pen and there's a good chance you'll find dings and dents that are perfectly hidden by the shrink wrap. Compare that brass to the brass on something like the Kaweco Brass Sport. You can tell at a glance that they aren't even the same metal.
A Chinese friend of mind who is highly involved in Chinese pen manufacture says that Chinese manufacturers are excellent at making beautiful children's toys that they sell to outsiders as adult tools. He is exactly right, and they are proud of being able to do this.
Chinese fountain pens are certainly usable, but if you're at all wise the first thing you'll do is put a western nib on them.
Seriously, think about. It costs less than a dollar to manufacture most of the pens you mentioned. Under two dollars to manufacture the best of them. Not even China with it's inhuman wages can make anything out of high level materials at that price.
Now, I don't buy Chinese pens because I don't want a penny of my money going to fund ongoing genocide, political imprisonment, government sponsored muggings, "disappearing" of whistleblowers and dissidents, child labor, and other atrocious human rights violations.
I also don't like helping to pay for a military buildup that includes producing thousands of nuclear weapons while the rest of the world is trying to eliminate nuclear weapons.
But we each have to make our own decision about such things. I wouldn't buy Chinese pens, anyway, because they really are made from very cheap materials, some of these pens actually cost fifty cents in China, they really are beautiful children's toys sold to outsiders as adult tools. There are other pretty cheap, and far higher quality pens out there. Even name brand companies have some very cheap, very good pens made from far better materials.
India is also making some incredible pens at very, very low prices considering the materials used, such as solid ebonite. And FPR has nibs and matching feeds at dirt cheap prices. I don't think there's a better flex nib on the market than the FPR Ultra Flex.
Too, save your money and buy something really nice. I stopped drinking coffee, Capuchino, soft drinks, and bottled water when away from home and save fifteen dollars a week. I put ten in a Christmas account, three in a jar at home, and put two back in the family budget. I could have bought a very nice pen at the end of a year, but I rolled it over for a second year.
At the end of two years, I bought a Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, a Pilot Custom 823, and a Platinum 3776. Even five dollars per week will buy the 823 and the 3776 after two years,
Really, how many hundred cheap Chinese pens does it take to be worth even the 823, let alone the Bronze Age?
James, I agree with you concerning the quality of the materials and overall product of the Chinese pens but the reality is that for most buyers these pens will not see more than a few hours of service in their lifetime.
As for your political statement, although you were attempting to describe China, it hits close to home.
Regardless, I learned from your comment and appreciate you taking the time. Thank you.
Subscribed again with my third account 🤣😌
Thank you very much 😂👍
👌👌🌈
Can you suggest how is ASA Orion with Schmidt Nib? It is costing for Rs 1450. Is it good at the price? Your suggestions are also welcome, my budget is Rs 1500. Also, I am new to the fountain pen world.
Hi Avinash I haven't used ASA Orion but Schmidt nibs are generally good. Other pens Under 1500 rs are 1. Sheaffer no nonsense this comes around 600-800rs 2. Jinhao 100 3. For eyedroppers Mohi Aura
4. Airmail Pens are bock threaded so you can purchase an Airmail pen and replace the stock nib with the bock
@@Penandpapersany specific model of airmail like 69T, 71JT which are threaded for Bock nibs please?
Most pens use Bock nibs.
Bock is on more pens, but that's hardly an indicator of quality. Kaweco and Visconti both use Bock, and the problems they've had with nibs over the last few years doesn't say much for Bock QC. Visconti is aid to have put its big foot down and Bock is now giving them much better gold nibs, but the steel nibs on cheap Visconti are pretty bad, and the fine and extra fine Kaweco nibs have far too frequent problems.
I absolutely love my Visconti Homo Sapiens Bronze Age, and it has a spectacular nib, but others haven't been so lucky. I do think Visconti has solved the problem, but for a while there Bock just wasn't delivering.
I also have a Kaweco Brass Sport. I liked the pen enough that I bought a Kaweco gold nib for it. The gold nib is way, way overpriced when compared to other gold nibs of the same size, but I really liked the Brass Sport, so I bought one. It was not smooth at all, and an overpriced gold nib should be smooth. But I've worked on nibs for a long time, and I can do anything from smoothing to grinding, and I smoother it out quickly. It's now one of my daily carry, take anywhere and everywhere pens.
My expoerience with working on nibs is that JoWo nibs are, on the whole, better made and solider than Bock nibs, and have better tipping. But both companies produce very, very good nibs, and my only real complaint with Bock nibs is that QC is nowhere near as good as it is with JoWo nibs. That said, a company wanting either brand is going to get what it pays for, just a little more so with JoWo.