Why Barliman Butterbur was REMOVED from “The Fellowship of the Ring”…
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Welcome to Ep. 6 of Movies vs. Manuscripts, where we are analyzing the scene at the Prancing Pony in Bree! An more specifically, how Peter Jackson cut out Barliman Butterbur’s near fatal mistake…
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Timestamps:
0:00 The Bumbling Fool...
1:32 Movie Recap
4:24 Shameless Plug! Join the Discord!
4:44 Plot Changes
10:59 Analysis
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Sources:
"The Fellowship of the Ring," directed by Peter Jackson, New Line Cinema, 2001.
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The gloomy and somewhat scary vibe in the Prancing Pony is another example of the influence of Bakshi's version.
Yes. In fact, the inn was so friendly and welcoming that the hobbits let down their guard. Pippin did not reveal Frodo’s name. He was simply telling about Bilbo’s birthday party. Frodo became aware that it might be dangerous for some to hear how Bilbo disappeared at the end and decided to try and distract everyone’s attention. Pippin had not actually said anything revealing, and may or may not have eventually related the part about Bilbo vanishing. The movies made Pippin an idiot, which makes me sad.
@@circedeluneIt needed the comic relief. Thought it worked well. Plus he redeemed himself later with courageous acts, not to mention he looked into a palantir and had the resolved to not give up any information to Sauron
Curiously, Bakshi's version of this scene is more accurate to the books (and includes the silly song)... Butterbur actually has more of a part in it
"There a few things that happen that that are very important to story"...NAMELY, THE INTRODUCTION OF OUR BELOVED BILL THE PONY.
And, toward the end of the story, Bill was waiting in Bree when Sam returned.
The 10th member of the Fellowship, representing the race of horses.
Once and for all.
First level.
Pippin is the one who manipulated Grishnak and allow Merry and him to escape the orcs alive after the attack of the Rohirrim.
Therefore without him, the Ent would not have awaken, and Saruman would have won the battle for Rohan.
Second level.
If Pippin haven’t thrown a stone in a hole in Moria, the Balrog wouldn’t have risen and Gandalf would have stayed the grey.
If pippin haven’t looked into the palantir, he would not have been taken to Minas Titith and Denethor would have made much more damage.
YESSS
And it was Pippin who left buckle (or whatever you call it in english) for Aragorn&Co. to find. He wasn't stupid, just reckless. In his defence - he was a teenager on whose participation in the Fellowship all bigwigs agreed upon.
@@mateuszslawinski1990 thank you, yes Pippin WAS just a teenager, but part of the story was him growing up.And he did prove himself, over and over, when it was needed. If they've only watched the movies, people wouldnt know this
Worse if (in the books) Pippin hadn't looked into the Palantir, then Gandalf would've looked into it and had to fight Sauron while surprised since just as there is more than one plain gold magic ring, there are more magic stone orbs than just the Palantir.
Barliman Butterbur's forgetfulness is so intense and powerful that it caused the director to forget to add this to the scene. Wait, what was the director's name again? oh god it's spreading to me too! Who am I? Oh no, at this rate I might even forget to finish my
I think it was a... Peter... something I don't know...
You could argue that Gandalf is ultimately to blame for trusting Butterbur with such an important message when he is very much aware of how busy and forgetful Barliman is. You could also make a very strong argument that Providence (or whatever you want to name it) ensured the Hobbits would end up with the blades of Westerness found in the Barrowdowns. The Hobbits would have taken the more traveled route to Rivendell via the East-West Road if they had not been under pursuit.
@c.j.nyssen6987. I have to agree with this sentiment. It's very heavily, implied, in the book, that the Will of Eru Illuvitar is at work in all these events. If we accept this premise, then all things that happen, can only happen the way they do.
From the daggers of the Westernesse, to Merry and Pippin getting caught by the orcs. Thus, leading to the march of the Ents. Among many, many other events that unfold just due to this one thing. The death of Gandalf, Boromir trying to take the ring. The list goes on and on. All of these events, and more, can ONLY happen the way the do, to enable 4 important characters to be, where they need to be, at the right time. Merry and his dagger at the fields of Pelennor, with Eowyn. There to defeat the Witch King of Angmar. A potentially, very real and dangerous threat. Even after the defeat of Sauron. The other two, and most importantly, are obviously Frodo and Gollum. Frodo being the only one, who can get the ring to the summit of Mount Doom. Gollum needed to destroy the ring by the only way possible. Treachery and punishment or maybe karma. The ring could not be destroyed, by choice, by ANYONE.
Events could never have played out any other way, down to the finest detail, and still finish with the rings destruction.
This was just one, of the ultimate beautys' of Tolkiens' writing and world building.
Yeah also why is everyone expecting the guy to know that sending this mundane letter to some random hobbit he never heard of is paramount to life, death and the destiny of middle earth? Just give it to the post man yourself Gandalf ffs
and by this the witchking wouldn`t have been killed
Eru Illuvitar: "We should not intervene in the affairs of the mortal world"
Also Eru Illuvitar: [Regularly intervenes in the affairs of the mortal world]
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 Regularly? He is said to have intervened 2 times, not regularly. First was the destruction of Numenor and Second was when he made Gollum fall into Mount Doom.
thanks to Barliman we got the greatest journey of all time
A lot of the cuts for time are justified as they are connected to other scenes cut elsewhere, or they are background characters. Butterbur actually made a really good character in BBC radio adaptation, but part of his role in the books is telling them what to expect in The Shire on the way back, which of course is completely cut. He sort of bookends the main part of the journey. Bree being the furthest adventure any respectable Hobbit might go on.
I've gone the 5 or so comments before I've gotten to you. But I just want to tell you, I appreciate you for knowing the Lore. The book and expanded. I appreciate that you and the previous five or so are the scholarly type in the Tolkien verse. We must hold on to the beautiful things. Please pass that love on friend.
Barleyman did not fail to guard the hobbits' room really-or rather, Aragorn at least knew that Barleyman's efforts would not be enough to stop the Nazgul who certainly knew where the ring was, who carried it, and they will have learned (from Merry, from Bill, or from someone else) where the hobbits' rooms were. No watch by a few men and maybe some hobbits would keep the Nine away at this point, so Barleyman's efforts were at best the appearance of precaution, even if he thought maybe otherwise.
Essentially, he cannot "fail" at something he was never able, nor meant to "succeed" at. Aragorn's plan, we'll learn next time, was a bit of deception and stealth.
The Nazgul didn’t actually come to the inn at all. That was done by men, probably including Bill Ferny and the gatekeeper, Harry Goatleaf.
Barliman, not Barleyman.
"what really happened at that night in Bree". This made me reflect about the nature of a story. Is a story about what really happened? Or is it about the version of the storyteller?
I am loving this series of videos and once they come to a conclusion it is my intention to binge watch the entire thing.
Thank you! Glad you’re enjoying them. 👏🏼
because if they put in every scene from the book, they wouldn't have arrived at rivendell after 4 hours
Ah. But if the letter was delivered they would have never crossed paths with Tom Bombadil.
Nor would they have obtained the barrow blades, one of which was instrumental in Merry's assist on killing the Witch King.
@@xyllar Don't worry. Tolkien would just move barrow-downs to another place. You speak as if plot armor doesn't exist.
1 video per scene. That's entertainment for years! Yay!
And then it’s onto the hobbit! 💀
@@factorfantasyweekly That should be a lot easier done to be fair, a one word review saying 'shite' will more than suffice! Great video series btw.
The main question the movie leaves me with is why didn't Bilbo see the Eye and the spirit world when he put the Ring on? To him, it was just a fun trick and a way to avoid people. Obviously, he didn't see any of what Frodo saw.
True. Movie lore would dictate that Bilbo could see Sauron.
As we know, technically in the book the “eye” doesn’t actually exist. It was just Jackson’s way of physically showing Sauron.
Listening to the unabridged audio book is my favorite way to enjoy middle earth. The trilogy is great too, but everything seems so sped up
Love this, watch the trilogy Every year but never read the books so Im learning so so much from this series, commenting and liking every video to help out and hopefully going all the way through all movies/ books
There are no accidents in the world of LOTR.
His mistake allowed Aragorn to shine, and earn Frodo's trust on his own. It showed that while he is not Gandalf, he is not Gandalf's ***** either, and is a capable leader in his own way.
It also allowed us readers to get introduced to him. Had it been Gandalf telling Frodo (and us) that Aragorn is a great person, we would have believed it. But it would have been a case of telling instead of showing.
Very nice. I enjoyed that.
🫡
Where’s my tilapia
They spend the night in the room where they ate dinner
Bob and Nob lmao. The origins of it, where Tolkein would tell his children this as a bedtime story, were VERY clear here lmao
*One of the scenes had Peter Jackson in it.
He appeared a few times in LOTR movies.
One of the things I disliked the most of one of the many changes from the book, they really did Pippin dirty and also remove a crucial part of their stay and what ultimately led to them fleeing and getting chased afterwards
oh Sam yells "I'll have you, longshanks!"? I... I thought he said "I'll have you on shanks!" like he was gonna shank him lmao
You have to remember that they could not include everything from the book for runtime reasons and also that it had to make sense for people who did not read the books and also not be boring. The first book and the third had pages and pages of aimless wanderings in forests and later into Mordor which would have bored audiences.
I understand the need for some changes and omissions. A lot of things in the book would be impossible to convey in a movie. I accept the absence of the Old Forest(though I wish they had figured out a way to include Merry’s barrow blade) and substituting Arwen for Glorfindel. But some changes were completely unnecessary, imo. I do really like the movies, but hate some of the changes. I could have done without making Pippin a bumbling idiot. I could most certainly have done without a lot that happens later that I won’t go into right now.
@9:40 - wait a minute, you actually think that Aragorn was "Scared to take up the mantle of King and take charge" in the movie? Where in the world did you get that? He wasn't scared, he was hesitant. I'm a Book fan 100%, but i don't see him as Ever being scared in the book OR the movie.
Awesome Video
In my opinion all of the changes made for this scene are mistakes.
I would have loved to see all of what Tolkien wrote in these scenes play out. I love this whole segment of his book. But sadly it would’ve added a lot to the films and as we know, they’re already super long 😂
@@factorfantasyweekly The Bakshi version did a great job adapting this chapter.
What hobbit was killed by a Black Rider in the movie?
The adapters always think they know better than Tolkien
Gandolf should have chose somebody else.
No one have good resistance that hobbits haves.
Mundungus fletcher ...
Bob is human, Nob is a hobbit.
Good point! I’m not sure if it ever specifies in the book, and many sources online refer to Bob and Nob as both hobbits. But considering bob is in charge of the stable and the horses/ponies, it would make sense if he’s human. Thanks for pointing this out!
@@factorfantasyweekly I am 95% certain it is strongly implied Bob is human and Nob the hobbit is retained by Butterbur to interact with hobbit clients.
This sounds like a video subject. If many people mistakenly claim Bob was also a hobbit, you could be the definitive source.
Pipin was juiced
Please read the books before analysing Barliman! He wasn't removed, he was tuned down, because the book sequence of events didn't work well for a film. It would appear unnaturally elaborate and inconsequential. Tom Bombadil, on the other hand, *was* removed. Both are important guys in the books.
Original
Butterbur would have been a Jah Jah Binks character? What are you even talking about? JJB was just a pointless and irritating character inserted into the Star Wars franchise to appeal to kiddies. Butterbur is a complex character and crucial to the plot of the first book of Fellowship of the Ring.. And he was one of those friends that Gandalf told Frodo he would meet on his journey. Yes, he was sometimes comical and the butt of Aragorn's sarcasm, but he wasn't an over-the-top and frankly ludicrous cartoon character who had no place in such a story.
I think he means that he’s kind of a bumbling buffoon lol. Which to be fair is kinda the vibe that he puts out on a surface level, but he can see through a brick wall in time
How dare you disrespect darth Jar Jar like that
Fools in movies:
1. Radagast
2. Pippin
3. Gimli
Fools in books:
1. Boromir (yes, he blows the horn right after leaving Rivendel, throw rocks in water near Moria, etc.)
2. Inn Keeper from this video
3. Pippin
Nope. None of those were fools in the books. Frodo said something to Gandalf in the books about Barliman being rather stupid, and Gandalf says Frodo doesn’t know much about it if he thinks Barliman is stupid. Pippin is actually very smart. Boromir is heroic and bold, not at all foolish. If anyone in the books is foolish, it is Sam. I think foolish is a bit harsh, but certainly he is not the brightest. He is loyal, brave, and lovable, but he isn’t very smart.
Pippin isn’t a fool in the book or comic relief… he is done incredibly dirty in the movies just as Frodo is also done dirty.
Well that was irritatingly pointless
Bad comparison.
Explain.
You are completely wrong about Tolkien here and show a great deal of hubris to think that you understzand Tolkien better than 70 years of critical writing on the Ring.
The 'Prancing Pony' is obviously a gay bar, right? NOBODY names a bar like that, unless they wanna quietly signal those interested in riding..... the 'Buckleberry Fairy'.... I mean its not even hidden, Bob the nob? C'MON!!!
Team Jackson's The Lord of the Rings trilogy is possibly the worst literary adaptation ever made. It's great cinema. But it has no respect for or understanding of Tolkien's novel.
I’m still undecided on if a true recreation of Tolkien’s writings (basically word for word) could make a viable film series. It’s just the difficult of adapting to a different format. Maybe one day someone will try it, but probably not for another 20 years.
@@factorfantasyweekly - Word-for-word isn't realistic, and why would anyone want that. All that's necessary is understanding the work and remaining true to it: What is the author saying with the work? Is the author saying that good must sustain its goodness when it fights evil( Tolkien )... or can good be as evil as it wants to be when it fights evil( Jackson ).
Worse than the hobbit?
@@stoneagepig3768 - Yes.
I tend to agree. Individual scenes csn be great, such as when Gollum and Smeagol are arguing, but overall I found the films lacking.
Need to acknowledge that if the movies followed the book exactly, each one would have been about 6hrs long. Got to view movies based on literature the same as cover versions of music I think.
There are a few things in this series that bug me, but compared to the disgrace that was made of the hobbit I can happily live with the changes in TLOTR movies
"Need to acknowledge that if the movies followed the book exactly, each one would have been about 6hrs long."
By what metric are you arriving at this exact number? It would be entire possible to follow the book exactly and have each film be the same length as Jackson's films. How time allocation is handled on screen is a lot more important than it is on the page. And Peter Jackson's handling of it is actually leverage against the argument that "following the books exactly" would result in longer screen time.
For example: In the theatrical cut of The Fellowship of the Ring( an important distinction here from the much longer extended cut of the same film ), it’s forty-eight seconds from the moment the Watcher attacks Frodo until he’s rescued, and a total of seventy-two seconds from the initial attack until the Watcher destroys the door. Also, in the Chamber of Mazarbul sequence, it’s well over three minutes from the moment the cave troll enters the fight until it finally keels over dead. This is unconscionable: you could literally read the entire scene aloud from the book in less time. And even before the Fellowship enters Moria proper, Gandalf tells the group( and the audience ) that it’s a four day journey to the other side. Yet Jackson, despite allotting over seven minutes prior to the first Orc attack, makes it seem as though the Fellowship made it through in a matter of a few hours, not days. And how about Jackson’s giving a bucket of steroids to the moment the Fellowship have to cross a span of about seven feet in the book? I saw someone get up and leave the theater, presumably to use the bathroom, and return before the Fellowship had fully negotiated that epic special effects/action scene entirely.
@@jachyra9 These scenes are entertaining while Tolkien's droning on and on about stuff a reader like me finds boring would be horrid for screen adaptation. The man was in need for an editor.
@@majungasaurusaaaa - You have no idea what you're saying.
”And I suppose you think you’re the one to do it”