Concerning your conversation about getting paid the day you work- I am a team lead, and our workers are paid day of and with cash. Technically, my teams workers are stipend volunteers, people with histories of violence, substance use, mental health diagnosis, street entrenched, or other commonly stigmatized populations. You know what happens when you give regular, paid work to the street and marginalized population? They get better. They have more stable lives, and they get better jobs. Hell, one of them is in med school. I delivered a speech at the Housing Central Conference in Vancouver last winter. My advice to people wanting to hire hard working people? Pay day of, pay living wage, pay cash.
500%? Luxury! Before regulation clamped down, and before a bunch of bad press brought the threat of regulations, the payday loan industry in the UK was reaching into the thousands of %
Every "Scholar" involved in the doctored studies deserves to have their credentials rescinded and banned from publishing any future papers. As a part of the scientific community this kind of garbage disgusts me.
The moment you said "Arcades often have racing games" I was beset with a sudden and overwhelming conviction you would end that sentence with "And he wanted to be a racist." Followed by this going into a land of darkness akin to what the sea monkeys guy did. I did not expect him to just be a shitty racecar driver.
I'm a software developer in the UK and once had an offer for a contract with a rate that looked too good to be true, like three times the going rate for the skills. They were very cagey about what they did other than 'financial services'. I researched them. It was a payday loans company. I did not take the contract.
I remember seeing Scott Tucker suck very badly at racing in the 2000s and wondering how he got there. It's not unusual, particularly in sportscar racing, to see some rich guys just looking for a costly good time mixed in with the legit competitors, but even by "gentleman racer" standards, he sucked. And his team was sponsored by MS Office, which just seemed so right. And then a year or two later he got busted for fraud and it all sort of made sense.
Normally, I have no trouble ignoring Robert's mispronunciations, because we're all human, and as he mentioned here, he only has a limited amount of time to research his topics, but I find the way he pronounces 'usury' fairly amusing. I don't know why.
As a freelancer in production myself, gotta love following up with people you met and worked for, for all of 2 days a month ago and will never see again, to remind them that you're past Net30 on your invoice...
Russian mafia is the same as Russian politicians, and me being Russian, I don't recommend any affiliation with those guys. They are like Trump on steroids 🤔
1:02:12 okay, so needing an immediate loan during a natural disaster/during the immediate aftermath is plausible - just not to fix anything that was damaged. If it's a situation where you're evacuating (hurricane/flood) or need somewhere to stay for a few days after your stuff gets wrek'd but have a steady income and are waiting for insurance or FEMA assistance I could totally see someone using a payday loan for such a situation. I know my state/parish does things a but differently than other hurricane prone areas (I'm looking at you, Florida), where we have active community evacuations to evacuation sites where if you can't afford to evacuate or lack the transportation, or whatever your reason for utilizing the service isn't questioned, you can load up on a bus and get to a safe place with shelter. But as we saw with Ian, there were people who were told to drive to work because there wasn't an evacuation order - if you wanted to leave & lacked the means to do so, you were stuck unless you found funding for yourself. The things I could imagine funding in the aftermath of something like a hurricane with a payday loan would be things like tarps, generators, chainsaws, a grill, etc. Anything beyond those items would be far out of the purview of a payday loan simply due to cost.
Scott Tucker is a bastard. I've listened to a big portion of BtB within spitting distance of the old AMG offices, so I was excited to hear the name. The docuseries Dirty Money has a good episode about Scott. You get to see his stuff get repossessed and it's such cathartic karma.
1:13:00 you absolutely *do* go into a study with a predetermined objective, just not a predetermined conclusion. collecting data first and then tweaking the hypothesis to match the "results" is how you get a bunch of terrible science that can't be replicated, because the "results" were a statistical fluke and/or manipulation by the researcher to justify their time/effort/funding. preregistration is a stronger form of this, where the objectives are published before the study is even done
We need to revive the old idea of establishing a "people's bank" We need a community-owned nonprofit entity that can provide simple banking services like savings, checking accounts, and small personal loans without any profit motive. Since the people's bank is community owned, the people would be able to vote to forgive outstanding loans or allow individual borrowers to pay their loans off by performing community service.
I just had an idea pop into my head. If you knew you were moving to a country that didn't extradite to the USA, and you knew you were never coming back, could you get away with driving across the country collecting payday loans before hopping on your plane and never paying them?
I would be willing to bet that payday loan guys are the type to hire hitmen to follow you to the country you disappeared into. Maybe not even to just get their money back, but to make an example.
Personally, I solve math problems for a homework help website. I theoretically get paid out per assignment. I do 30 questions for $7 each, I know I have $210 coming my way soon... BUT sometimes shit happens, and "soon" isn't as soon as I hope. I've taken out about a dozen payday loans, and it has cost me maybe $40 over the past 4 years. It's predatory and fucked up, but honestly, I think every other business is equally predatory. The loan sharks have kept me from getting evicted, at least.
Speaking as a qualified bookkeeper: There are very few industries where the *entire* business model is *keeping* people in debt. For-profit banks are arguably one of them, but even they don't charge the *ruinous* interest rates that loan sharks do. From the episode, literally the entire point of loan-sharking is to put poor people in enough debt at a high-enough interest rate that they can't claw their way out. Your case will be the exception, rather than the rule, I fear.
I don't want to be defending the way that almost all work steals one months wages from everyone forever but it wouldn't really make much if any difference on payday loans. I don't think one months pay as a flat benefit is going to stop most people living hand to mouth forever. Sooner or later that money will be gone and then you're back to living hand to mouth.
The justification for delayed payment of labor is the same as it is for multiple other goods and services provided up front and compensated later, including illegal drugs: The added value of the labor or good isn’t realized by the buyer until later.
Two other problems with that idea: first, asserting that payment for labor is delayed due to the fact that realization of the value of provided labor isn't immediate implies that payment on a weekly or semiweekly basis is somehow a more accurate representation of the schedule over which such value is realized, when in reality those timeframes were arbitrarily chosen for the sake of making bookkeeping easier. The realization of the value of the labor doesn't happen like clockwork every other Friday, and so the current system is not necessarily more likely to be accurate than simply paying people EOD for work performed that day. The second issue with viewing pay through realization of value added is the large variety of jobs (particularly found in Global North countries) that are concerned with systems management, finance, etc.; jobs where the added value is speculative, nebulous, or otherwise hard to calculate because they represent things like increased efficiency or avoided potential costs/losses that are often hard to isolate and quantify. Arguing that we need to delay payment essentially wait for the results of the work when we can't measure those results particularly accurately with regards to a sizeable portion of the labor force is not particularly sound. That's not to say that there are no compelling reasons to not use our current weekly or semiweekly system. The one I touched on above, namely the fact that it's easier to deal with 52 or 26 pay stubs than to do so with over 200 when it comes to bookkeeping, is absolutely a compelling reason. That said, I'd agree with Robert that accountants having to deal with greater complexity in managing corporate finances is probably a better burden for society to bear than poor people getting trapped into ruinous cycles of debt.
Psychopaths have existed all through history and in all cultures. It's just that our culture esteems them and healthy cultures tended to banish them, feed them to the sharks, bury them in the sand with just their head out of the sand at low tide, etc.
@@alexcarter8807 That's certainly what we aughta do! I have to ask though...do you have an example of a society that was good about weeding out and discaring their psychos? My understanding is that in pretty much every organization of humans ever, clever psychos tend to rise to the top and become wealthy or powerful because they don't have the same motal hangups as everyone around them.
For the record, the reason there's a delay between doing the work and getting paid is so that the payer can earn a tiny amount of interest on the money in the meantime. (Those tiny amounts add up, especially for large companies.)
For most it's just a matter of not keeping cash on hand and not trusting lower mgmt as disbursers. Re: almost all govt employees, all white collar and most blue collar workers. It's just inconvenient to keep cash sitting around and trusting supervisors to pay accurately.
Love the content, some feedback. Worst cohost so far, wish you had potted down her microphone. Christ. Native lands and she is crying leave them alone. As if they werent complicit in the scam. I do agree, people should be paid faster. Especially in this digital age. Pay was weekly/etc bc the time it would take to collate all the revenue streams, bookkeeping, depositing it, and moving funds to the right accounts. These days ACH transfers can be accomplished in seconds. Thats said, counterpoint is some people just need to learn financial management skills and then they would have money after payday. And some companies need to pay a viable wage. I knew someone hooked by this - needed money fast - and it took her YEARS to pay off a tiny loan. One thing I dont recall mentioned - most of his lending companies are in poor neighborhoods. They are brightly lit, well staffed, and spotless. I believe some offer like free water, etc. Commercials make them look very sympathetic or helpful. Its like reverse redlining.
You would be recording their income regardless of how often you pay them - you could just as easily subtract 16% of a daily wage as a weekly or biweekly wage. Companies have a financial interest in paying out only 26 times a year because it costs less than calculating wages 52+ times a year.
Speaking as a qualified bookkeeper: Yes, you *can* hand out cash every day. You do that by using what's called a "day book" (where you record the transactions that your business engages in on a day-to-day basis) and by ensuring that you know how long any given employee is working on a given day. Tax at that point is easy enough to calculate (hourly rate * number of hours worked * tax rate) and write down. Insurance is much more likely to be paid on a monthly basis, and not on the basis of how long any given individual works (unless you're referring to the UK's National Insurance, at which point, again, it's done exactly the same way that tax is done).
This doesn’t have anything to do with the payroll, which is a business’ list of all employees and how much they earn. A payday loan is called that, ‘cos you only need extra cash ‘til payday! Of course people living paycheck to paycheck pay a lot of interest, if they have to borrow with no collateral. It’s a vicious cycle, unless they have a big raise coming. There should be laws against usury, IMO. Meanwhile, the working poor are better off taking advantage of charity for food, or getting by any way other than borrowing money, which is something only rich people should do.
@@marcusdavey9747 That all sounds great, except that sometimes it's either lose your apartment or take a payday loan, or a title loan or one of these highly exploitative lenders. We know it's a terrible option, it's just that taking on that debt is slightly better than being homeless.
it works shitty for the people who have to live days or weeks or months with no money for emergencies and while continuing to do labour and provide value for their boss. employees already don’t get 90-95% of the value they bring in, but they don’t even get the money they are rationed until long after they provided the value. have you heard of wage theft? it’s a lot easier to steal wages when they get handed out less often and in bigger less easy to calculate quantities. it’s the most common type of theft in the united states. i get paying employees once a week, it makes it easier to keep track of. any less than that (with exceptions for crazy emergencies) is an excuse to put in even less work as a boss and an easy way to cover stealing. one of the jobs of a boss is paying people their due in a reasonable time frame, once every month or once every two isn’t a reasonable time frame.
Concerning your conversation about getting paid the day you work- I am a team lead, and our workers are paid day of and with cash. Technically, my teams workers are stipend volunteers, people with histories of violence, substance use, mental health diagnosis, street entrenched, or other commonly stigmatized populations. You know what happens when you give regular, paid work to the street and marginalized population? They get better. They have more stable lives, and they get better jobs. Hell, one of them is in med school.
I delivered a speech at the Housing Central Conference in Vancouver last winter. My advice to people wanting to hire hard working people? Pay day of, pay living wage, pay cash.
Sofie's sporadic laughter in the background is life.
500%? Luxury! Before regulation clamped down, and before a bunch of bad press brought the threat of regulations, the payday loan industry in the UK was reaching into the thousands of %
*Read in a thick Yorkshire accent*
Every "Scholar" involved in the doctored studies deserves to have their credentials rescinded and banned from publishing any future papers. As a part of the scientific community this kind of garbage disgusts me.
Forcibly change their legal name to shill. no first or last, just Shill.
@@bobspldbckwrdsLike when you steal in Link's Awakening
There's *so much* of this kind of scummery in statistics and data science fields.
Missed opportunity - The Tragic Schoolbus
Keep up the good work
The moment you said "Arcades often have racing games" I was beset with a sudden and overwhelming conviction you would end that sentence with "And he wanted to be a racist." Followed by this going into a land of darkness akin to what the sea monkeys guy did.
I did not expect him to just be a shitty racecar driver.
I'm a software developer in the UK and once had an offer for a contract with a rate that looked too good to be true, like three times the going rate for the skills. They were very cagey about what they did other than 'financial services'. I researched them. It was a payday loans company. I did not take the contract.
I remember seeing Scott Tucker suck very badly at racing in the 2000s and wondering how he got there. It's not unusual, particularly in sportscar racing, to see some rich guys just looking for a costly good time mixed in with the legit competitors, but even by "gentleman racer" standards, he sucked. And his team was sponsored by MS Office, which just seemed so right. And then a year or two later he got busted for fraud and it all sort of made sense.
Normally, I have no trouble ignoring Robert's mispronunciations, because we're all human, and as he mentioned here, he only has a limited amount of time to research his topics, but I find the way he pronounces 'usury' fairly amusing. I don't know why.
As a freelancer in production myself, gotta love following up with people you met and worked for, for all of 2 days a month ago and will never see again, to remind them that you're past Net30 on your invoice...
It's amazing how often I look at American institutions and think: "We ought to let the Russian Mafia run this, instead."
Russian mafia is the same as Russian politicians, and me being Russian, I don't recommend any affiliation with those guys. They are like Trump on steroids 🤔
How do you think started those legal payday loan companies in Nevada. If you say the mafia, you would be right.
This is LITERALLY what Putin did after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They were the only people around that understood how to do capitalism.
Italian would probably be better
1:02:12 okay, so needing an immediate loan during a natural disaster/during the immediate aftermath is plausible - just not to fix anything that was damaged. If it's a situation where you're evacuating (hurricane/flood) or need somewhere to stay for a few days after your stuff gets wrek'd but have a steady income and are waiting for insurance or FEMA assistance I could totally see someone using a payday loan for such a situation. I know my state/parish does things a but differently than other hurricane prone areas (I'm looking at you, Florida), where we have active community evacuations to evacuation sites where if you can't afford to evacuate or lack the transportation, or whatever your reason for utilizing the service isn't questioned, you can load up on a bus and get to a safe place with shelter. But as we saw with Ian, there were people who were told to drive to work because there wasn't an evacuation order - if you wanted to leave & lacked the means to do so, you were stuck unless you found funding for yourself. The things I could imagine funding in the aftermath of something like a hurricane with a payday loan would be things like tarps, generators, chainsaws, a grill, etc. Anything beyond those items would be far out of the purview of a payday loan simply due to cost.
This and climate change and environmental reports are why I immediately look for who paid for a study before I use any information in the study.
That's a funny way to say "usury"
This is ursury, which is usury but for bears
Yeah he really needs to look up how words are actually said by real people before doing these. Bad! Bad AI!
I feel attacked. Lol.
Scott Tucker is a bastard. I've listened to a big portion of BtB within spitting distance of the old AMG offices, so I was excited to hear the name. The docuseries Dirty Money has a good episode about Scott. You get to see his stuff get repossessed and it's such cathartic karma.
Guy was unrepentant at the very end
1:13:00 you absolutely *do* go into a study with a predetermined objective, just not a predetermined conclusion. collecting data first and then tweaking the hypothesis to match the "results" is how you get a bunch of terrible science that can't be replicated, because the "results" were a statistical fluke and/or manipulation by the researcher to justify their time/effort/funding. preregistration is a stronger form of this, where the objectives are published before the study is even done
We need to revive the old idea of establishing a "people's bank"
We need a community-owned nonprofit entity that can provide simple banking services like savings, checking accounts, and small personal loans without any profit motive.
Since the people's bank is community owned, the people would be able to vote to forgive outstanding loans or allow individual borrowers to pay their loans off by performing community service.
It's called a credit union and it exists. They just get crowded out by banks and are too large for anarchist principles to work in a streamlined way.
@@Frommerman credit unions are good, but that's not what the Black Panthers were talking about when they said "peoples bank"
The post office used to also be a bank of the people/low entry and accessible to get a bank account.
"usury" - pronounced like "use" + "ury"
It's funnier if he keeps saying it wrong
No... it's like nails on a chalkboard to accounting types or generally anyone with a 110+ IQ.
"Pegging is more ethical than the payday loan industry."
I just had an idea pop into my head. If you knew you were moving to a country that didn't extradite to the USA, and you knew you were never coming back, could you get away with driving across the country collecting payday loans before hopping on your plane and never paying them?
With corporatized stores probably not. If you went to any that use the same computer system they'd start refusing you loans.
I would be willing to bet that payday loan guys are the type to hire hitmen to follow you to the country you disappeared into. Maybe not even to just get their money back, but to make an example.
Personally, I solve math problems for a homework help website. I theoretically get paid out per assignment. I do 30 questions for $7 each, I know I have $210 coming my way soon... BUT sometimes shit happens, and "soon" isn't as soon as I hope. I've taken out about a dozen payday loans, and it has cost me maybe $40 over the past 4 years. It's predatory and fucked up, but honestly, I think every other business is equally predatory.
The loan sharks have kept me from getting evicted, at least.
Speaking as a qualified bookkeeper: There are very few industries where the *entire* business model is *keeping* people in debt. For-profit banks are arguably one of them, but even they don't charge the *ruinous* interest rates that loan sharks do. From the episode, literally the entire point of loan-sharking is to put poor people in enough debt at a high-enough interest rate that they can't claw their way out.
Your case will be the exception, rather than the rule, I fear.
I don't want to be defending the way that almost all work steals one months wages from everyone forever but it wouldn't really make much if any difference on payday loans. I don't think one months pay as a flat benefit is going to stop most people living hand to mouth forever. Sooner or later that money will be gone and then you're back to living hand to mouth.
25:25 *vietnam flashback sequence begins*
The justification for delayed payment of labor is the same as it is for multiple other goods and services provided up front and compensated later, including illegal drugs: The added value of the labor or good isn’t realized by the buyer until later.
That sounds like the kind of risk that goes hand in hand with starting a business, and as such is not the problem of the laborers.
Two other problems with that idea: first, asserting that payment for labor is delayed due to the fact that realization of the value of provided labor isn't immediate implies that payment on a weekly or semiweekly basis is somehow a more accurate representation of the schedule over which such value is realized, when in reality those timeframes were arbitrarily chosen for the sake of making bookkeeping easier. The realization of the value of the labor doesn't happen like clockwork every other Friday, and so the current system is not necessarily more likely to be accurate than simply paying people EOD for work performed that day.
The second issue with viewing pay through realization of value added is the large variety of jobs (particularly found in Global North countries) that are concerned with systems management, finance, etc.; jobs where the added value is speculative, nebulous, or otherwise hard to calculate because they represent things like increased efficiency or avoided potential costs/losses that are often hard to isolate and quantify. Arguing that we need to delay payment essentially wait for the results of the work when we can't measure those results particularly accurately with regards to a sizeable portion of the labor force is not particularly sound.
That's not to say that there are no compelling reasons to not use our current weekly or semiweekly system. The one I touched on above, namely the fact that it's easier to deal with 52 or 26 pay stubs than to do so with over 200 when it comes to bookkeeping, is absolutely a compelling reason. That said, I'd agree with Robert that accountants having to deal with greater complexity in managing corporate finances is probably a better burden for society to bear than poor people getting trapped into ruinous cycles of debt.
One of the lessons, you don't have to be male and white to be a scumbag. Just ambitions and sociopath behaviour
Psychopaths have existed all through history and in all cultures. It's just that our culture esteems them and healthy cultures tended to banish them, feed them to the sharks, bury them in the sand with just their head out of the sand at low tide, etc.
@@alexcarter8807 That's certainly what we aughta do! I have to ask though...do you have an example of a society that was good about weeding out and discaring their psychos? My understanding is that in pretty much every organization of humans ever, clever psychos tend to rise to the top and become wealthy or powerful because they don't have the same motal hangups as everyone around them.
For the record, the reason there's a delay between doing the work and getting paid is so that the payer can earn a tiny amount of interest on the money in the meantime. (Those tiny amounts add up, especially for large companies.)
For most it's just a matter of not keeping cash on hand and not trusting lower mgmt as disbursers.
Re: almost all govt employees, all white collar and most blue collar workers. It's just inconvenient to keep cash sitting around and trusting supervisors to pay accurately.
Magic Metro Bus
Oh, never you fear, the financial services industry is happy to provide a way to get paid right away every day..... for a percent and a fee.
Valugagement
Do Jho Lo, the malaysia scammer
Love the content, some feedback.
Worst cohost so far, wish you had potted down her microphone. Christ.
Native lands and she is crying leave them alone. As if they werent complicit in the scam.
I do agree, people should be paid faster. Especially in this digital age. Pay was weekly/etc bc the time it would take to collate all the revenue streams, bookkeeping, depositing it, and moving funds to the right accounts. These days ACH transfers can be accomplished in seconds. Thats said, counterpoint is some people just need to learn financial management skills and then they would have money after payday. And some companies need to pay a viable wage.
I knew someone hooked by this - needed money fast - and it took her YEARS to pay off a tiny loan.
One thing I dont recall mentioned - most of his lending companies are in poor neighborhoods. They are brightly lit, well staffed, and spotless. I believe some offer like free water, etc. Commercials make them look very sympathetic or helpful. Its like reverse redlining.
Blip
usury
well you DO understand that taxes and insurance have to be taken out and recorded? you cant just hand out cash everyday anymore.
You would be recording their income regardless of how often you pay them - you could just as easily subtract 16% of a daily wage as a weekly or biweekly wage.
Companies have a financial interest in paying out only 26 times a year because it costs less than calculating wages 52+ times a year.
Speaking as a qualified bookkeeper: Yes, you *can* hand out cash every day. You do that by using what's called a "day book" (where you record the transactions that your business engages in on a day-to-day basis) and by ensuring that you know how long any given employee is working on a given day. Tax at that point is easy enough to calculate (hourly rate * number of hours worked * tax rate) and write down.
Insurance is much more likely to be paid on a monthly basis, and not on the basis of how long any given individual works (unless you're referring to the UK's National Insurance, at which point, again, it's done exactly the same way that tax is done).
Could this co host BE any less articulate? FFS, can't you find people who can speak?
While these broadcasts are fascinating to listen to, his co-host's grating voice makes my ears bleed.
rIOBEWERYERVns le3ft thAT LAST COMMENTG
It's hilarious to listen to these people who've clearly never had to make payroll complain about how payroll works.
I'm actually really curious, why is payroll necessary? (as someone who's only ever worked hourly with bimonthly pay
This doesn’t have anything to do with the payroll, which is a business’ list of all employees and how much they earn. A payday loan is called that, ‘cos you only need extra cash ‘til payday! Of course people living paycheck to paycheck pay a lot of interest, if they have to borrow with no collateral. It’s a vicious cycle, unless they have a big raise coming. There should be laws against usury, IMO. Meanwhile, the working poor are better off taking advantage of charity for food, or getting by any way other than borrowing money, which is something only rich people should do.
Stop talking about yourself Jerry.
@@marcusdavey9747 That all sounds great, except that sometimes it's either lose your apartment or take a payday loan, or a title loan or one of these highly exploitative lenders. We know it's a terrible option, it's just that taking on that debt is slightly better than being homeless.
it works shitty for the people who have to live days or weeks or months with no money for emergencies and while continuing to do labour and provide value for their boss. employees already don’t get 90-95% of the value they bring in, but they don’t even get the money they are rationed until long after they provided the value. have you heard of wage theft? it’s a lot easier to steal wages when they get handed out less often and in bigger less easy to calculate quantities. it’s the most common type of theft in the united states. i get paying employees once a week, it makes it easier to keep track of. any less than that (with exceptions for crazy emergencies) is an excuse to put in even less work as a boss and an easy way to cover stealing. one of the jobs of a boss is paying people their due in a reasonable time frame, once every month or once every two isn’t a reasonable time frame.
RTYHSU