Ben thanks for the review and the information on the artillery hold. Here is the rifle shooting instructions I received from the my best shooter instructor years ago. He was an army marksman/sniper. The keys are: first, find the balance point of the particular break barrel (any rifle) with and without the optics. Second place your trigger hand on the rifle and find what that distance is from the balance point to the middle of the palm. Third is placing your forehand or bag at that exact distance forward of the balance point basically having the balance point in the middle of your two hands. I use the trigger hand to hold the rifle butt firmly (not hard) against my shoulder shooting pocket! (Ben knows what a shooting pocket is!!) Make sure your forehand acts like a cupped rest not a hold. This method and being precise it very important and has given me the best shooting results on all the rifles I have ever shot. His favorite quote "if you want precision (shooting) you must practice precision"(hold and trigger control).
Great stuff my friend. I was hoping this video would get some great comments and be an asset to people trying to learn better accuracy. You have helped make that happen, Thank you.
@@RobertoDelgadoArcos It is the pocket your shoulder muscles and chest muscles make when you raise the trigger arm about 90 degrees ( or even with your shoulder). This is where the butt of the rifle rests. Search you tube for videos if you need a picture instruction.
Great video. It's been a while since I have watched a break barrel video. My mind is blown by how much I've come to expect from my PCP's regarding accuracy and grouping.
It’s hard to tell doing a comparisons between the two holds when the one of the two holds is your go to and one you’ve probably fired thousands upon thousands of pellets using that preferred method would like to see you do it again but with a buddy who’s preferred method is resting on the bags to see if we get any data off of that
Yep, the movement of piston causes rifle to shift prior to pellet leaving barrel...makes sense to me it would be more accurate. Did not really think of it since always think in relation to center/rimfire weapons....but break barrel pellet guns are whole different beast.
I can see by the angle you filmed from that your hand provided a smoth channel for the recoil to follow and with your consistent hold the better accuracy is the result. With a bean bag it will move slightly each time you rest your rifle. In live fires the shot has left the barrel before the recoil hits and pcp's are almost recoiless and there is no excuse for not hitting single holes at 50 yards + . Great video , thanks for your time .
I’d be dissatisfied with those groups at 25 yards , can only presume the pellets used the gun barrel doesn’t like ,, would expect groups that bad at 45 yards , give you a thumbs up and thanks for the video Shane uk
Exactly , I am shooting 1 cm groups at 25 yards with Hatsan 1000x , Norica 3-9 42 scope , no sand bag just a regular elbow lean on a leg and an artilery hold and works great .... aaaand , he didn't pull trigger same all along the way , trigger pull is as much as important as hold
Came to the comments wondering if anybody else found his groupings to be... not quite ideal lol I've never had groupings that big across the 4 different break barrels I've owned, no matter how I held the rifle, whether it was resting on a window sill, on a bipod, shooting bag, artillery hold, etc.
Interesting story related to this subject - it's 1997 and I got my second adult airgun, a spring powered Beeman Kodiak in .25 caliber. A hard recoiling beast of a gun (30+ ft/lbs of muzzle energy). I took it shooting and shot off a firm rest, just like I did my firearms. I had not yet heard of the artillery hold. I was testing several different pellets ranging from 21 to 31 grains and shooting at about 25-30 yards. Shot my first group with some 24 grain pellets. Ok groups. After a bit switched the 31 grain pills. What the heck - they're actually shooting HIGHER than the 24 grainers. Ok, let's try the really light 21 grain pellets. What the heck, they're shooting lowest of all?! This pattern happened all day - heavier pellets hitting higher than the lighter pellets. I was stumped. I'd been shooting firearms for 10 years, and everybody knows lighter bullets drop less and hit higher. But then, on the short drive home it dawned on me. I was having a hard time holding the rifle down when I fired it. It wanted to jump all over the place. Like I said, my rest was very firm so that recoil energy went back into the rifle. Eureka! I knew what was happening! When the gun went off, the recoil made it jump up off the rest. Because the slower pellets were in the barrel longer, the gun was getting to a higher angle by the time the pellets exited the muzzle. The next time I went to the range, I tested again but from the standing position where my hands and arms could absorb the recoil. And as I expected, the slower pellets began hitting lower than the faster ones. Mystery solved. And one of the things that makes air gunning so interesting. So many little nuances and oddities like that make it such a fun and challenging sport. Keep the great videos coming, Ben! P.S. That Beeman Kodiak still graces my gun cabinet, has never had a mechanical problem, and performs beautifully. It's a keeper! :)
With gunpowder rifles the bullet has exited before the recoil jumps the gun. Airgun recoil starts before the pellet exits the barrel, thus requiring a much firmer hold of the gun. I find I can stay in better tune using an airgun, those skills that transfer to the powder gun. I have a much firmer hold and accuracy. This same kind of issue occurs with muzzle loaders only it's compounded by the addition of a primer distraction, a delay, then the powder discharge. Novice shooters tend to slack slightly upon the primer charge, the bullet also doesn't exit the rifle before the recoil starts.
I would say we just called it the standing position in USMC,laying down Prone sitting with knees bent sucked.Never heard artillery hold till watching pellet guns. Hmmmmm
Maybe yours is a lemon. I have had some better than others. Also, break barrels take practice before you get good results. And the gun needs a break in period. After about 300 shots they shoot better.
Ben l have Magnum gen 2 and using hornets 22 cal pellet on pellet up to 25 yards. Also hades 22 cal doing very very well. Choosing the right pellets is the key
I was eager to know all this information as well, coming off of PCP's and getting on a HW97k is just another world for sure! The simplicity of Springer airguns and not have to carry so much more equipment as you must with a pcp is mind blowing... What's confusing to me and I imagine many others is seeing other folks who have youtube channels to review all kinds of airguns, springers AND PCP's and some freak me out cause they use bags to shoot springers off of, and get great groups! How is that possible!? Then I looked at the techniques the person was using, repeating the shooting part over and over again and saw exactly what he was doing... He would sort of "balance the rifle (Springer) on the front bag, and very lightly, slightly holding the rear end up from the rear bag, actually the rear bag was just to bring his bent arm up... and this way his groups were actually pretty good. And as he went through the different types of pellets you could actually see the denominator factor of which pellet it performed best with... I stopped using my pcp's (weirdly enough) to get back to getting my level of marksmanship back up there where I had it, before I got the pcp rifles! And surely enough, one must conquer the correct hold on a Springer, especially if your gun is above the 12fpe, and hitting the FAC zone (almost three times more power)!! You set a great quick real example my friend, the groups show the facts! A. Springers are a bitch at first, lol but once you get that feel for shooting them correctly the nightmare disappears. B. The artillery hold works, period!!! By the way, have you ever shot a Weilhrauch German made Springer, break barrel, or an under lever?! Nice to the point video :-)
have u tried resting the end of the barrel or close to it on the bag ? from my understanding the double recoil throws the end of the barrel around that why the fliers and lack of accuracy,,,, im trying that soon
Brother you are always full of life how hard do you think the Gamo swarm magnum vs Hatsan 125??? The Hatsan is 50lbs but its a quick like arm wrestle cock not 85 degrees like gamo. Im close to 300 and have never been weak but Im not the only one whos saying this. I believe after 150 shots it should settle down. Im leaning on it using my weight to help and it does. Its like cocking a steel trap in 5 degree weather for Kodiak Bears with him right behind you.
Good video my friend,, I agree with you on everything, just one thing, those guns are very powerful specially the magnum, I will recommend for those kind of videos something shooting under 900fps.. soo much power is gonna affect on any break barrel that powerful . Those magazine systems are pretty sweet but sometimes pain in the but!! Causing pellet deformation and you lost accuracy.. try to find the sweet pellet for those guns..after all is a great video putting on the idea on the spot
With a break barrelled gun that does not have a barrel lock as with target models ,putting the sight on the spring tube will always have a slight variation in accuracy .Do you close it carefully/gently or slam it shut? This is why the open sights were always on the barrel .If you have to use a scope then a pistol scope on the barrel would be more suitable .
The gen 2 loading mechanism is possibly not seating the pellets completely in the barrel and clipping the skirts on the back of the pellets and become very inaccurate. Had the same accuracy problem on my gamo swarm magnum gen 2. It Went back to the store to get looked at and sorted out. Hopefully 🤬
I notice when I first shot my crossman Optimus it was going left and right on my rest bag but when I hold it like a m4 elbow tuck in and slowly press the trigger I was wayyy accurate
What is the problem? The pellet getting clipped on the back when you close the barrel or the pellets won't group good? Because I shot a lot better group with a rest and not using any stupid artillery hold.
For your guns, nice, but, my Ben 1500 .177/4.5 is super anti social, less hold input, max accuracy, and that's up to 100 yds, with 10.5 cros/pre/domes and bundle CP, got Hawk air/max. today, so tomorrow am going for max, wish me luck. Great vid 👉👍
Artillery hold is difficult for me I have cerebral palsy I don't know if I should go to a PCP like the Benjamin Maximus which only requires 2,000 PSI to pump up which probably isn't that difficult from what I hear
My Gamo Fusion can do better group without any bags. I loved this gun, it's pretty accurate. I would say the groups you have are not the gun or type of holding problem.
Not to criticize anything here. I'm just 3:25 in so far... I've noticed when you showed how you placed the rifle on the bag with a drop or slam it shot low on both rifles. It was then followed up by high fliers on the next shots shown. Have you ever considered that the break barrel drops ever so slightly when you drop the rifle onto the support bags?
Yes, it can be used in kneeling and the principals can be applied to standing as well. Here I am showing it used at the bench. In my understanding of the artillery hold it is a hold technique that allows the gun to recoil naturally yet maintaining the aim point by directing the recoil in a straight back and forth motion avoiding movement to either side. This is accomplished by holding the gun at the proper balance point with your forward hand.
Artillery hold simply means letting the front of the gun rest, rather than gripping the forstock and pulling back with the forward hand. Resting the stock on a rest, is an artillery hold. Clamping, or gripping the forstock is not. Oh! Don't rest or hold the barrel either. That will really destroy your accuracy.
Hi, I have a new Diana 350 N-Tec Magnum Classic. This is a powerful spring piston break barrel. Is the artillery hold as recommended for this type of rifle as it is for the spring piston break barrels. Thanks
I would have liked to seen you do this test using a springer & an IGT as opposed to using two IGT air rifles as you did because I have heard that you need it with the springer because of the "more violent" double recoil you get but not so much (or at all) using an ITG? I have also found that when shooting off of a rest as you are, doesn't yield the same results as when Im shooting using a tree to steady my shot (true artillery hold I guess?) when in the field hunting, and shooting from the rest would lead me to believe I needed much more work sighting it in and in the field Im dropping small birds at 15-20 yards! So I guess in my opinion the artillery hold is good to know in any case and all air rifle shooters should learn how to use it, and determine if your particular air rifle shoots better using it? I just use it by habit now and it always seems to be a good thing! One other thing is that you seem to actually be using two forms of the artillery hold, loose on the bag & loose on your hand sitting loose on the bag?
Excelente Video Ben. Muchas Gracias!!! Queda probado que el "Soporte de Artillería" es la mejor técnica en rifles de quiebre de cañón o incluso de palanca inferior. Thumbs Up!!! : )
both elbows out like a bird soaring on artillery hold plus you have to figure out your loose forehand grip some springers like it further back some more forward you have to freehand to find out just remember loose grip let the forehand slide straight back and not tight on the shoulder it wants to move back not up or down so let it
Wonder how that principle works with the heavier break barrel guns compared to the Gamo? The Gamo is a 6 lb. gun the Benjamin and Hatsan are 10 lb. guns. Just a thought. Enjoy your videos.
@Leon Wilcox The H95 does cost about $100 more than the magnum but it is worth the additional cash. And I am not saying that the magnum is a bad rifle, it is just over powered in my opinion. Break barrels with that much power are very hard to manage and consistency becomes difficult to achieve. Also, I have heard a lot of rumble about those auto feed pellet systems, and although it is a great idea I will wait until significant improvements are made to the design before buying one.
@Leon Wilcox Well let me tell you that I stand corrected, I just saw a video of Ben shooting the magnum at 100 yards and the rifle looked very accurate. And if Gamo worked out the kinks with the the auto loader than this rifle is a contender. So I gladly eat my words, and I bet that we will be seeing other manufacturers coming up with similar auto load systems. Now I must have one of these!
@Leon Wilcox 20.000 pellets ! wow that is a lot of shooting. How long did that take ? Shot my gamo swarm gen 2 .22 Easter weekend for a first time. Put 250 pellets thru it then the cocking mechanism locked up. Also found lead shavings on the magazine witch probably meant that the skirts on the pellet were getting clipped when closing the breach. So the loading mechanism was not seating the pellets completely in to the barrel. Its back at the store getting looked at. Hopefully its just a one off.
I've always only fired once I was comfortable with my surroundings (very important) and whatever hold. It seemed to me fairly obvious that if you were in an uncomfortable and awkward position, your shot was going to be awkward as well.
I never use artillery hold when shooting off the bag, and that is with a Beeman R1 Magnum. The gun is rested, and can do it's thing all it wants, and even more smoothly than trying to move in a sweaty hand. It shoots light out every shot out to 50 yards all day long. Cut playing cards in half, bullseye no problem. I only do artillery hold when I am not shooting off of a bag.
I agree. If artillery hold on top of bag is better than just the bag, then the firmness of the bag should also make a difference. I assume a soft bag would be better than a firm bag.
These guns don't seem to be very accurate? Huge spread even with resting on a bag at only 25yards, and I don't think it's the shooter. I am/was thinking of buying a swarm fusion (called a "Roadster" in Europe for some reason) but this video has got me worried. Comments please.
any new air rifle needs to be broken in 100- 500 pellets before you even start to worry about sighting it in, I shot mine with the open sights (150 pellets) Crosman pellets before even putting on my new Hawke scope to sight it in with my H&N pellets and wont know for sure if its their (group tightens up) till I shoot the hole 500 tin of them?
@@Frank-uf2vn That can't be, what the hell are you breaking in it ain't an engine. I barely bought the 400 pellets left at the store and you want me to use em all without even aiming?
@@Hackerman-bd9hq No! aiming is usually a good idea! What I was saying is dont worry about your groupings because it will shoot sporadically until broken in , one minute its dead on and the next your an inch or two high or low, dont worry about chasing your shots on paper, until you put several hundred shots through it. If it starts shooting tighter groups sooner "great".
@@Hackerman-bd9hq break-in period to burn off excess lubricants from the factory, many air rifles are returned because the new owners don't see immediate accuracy.
I love your videos! I must admit that I am not impressed with any of the groups! At that distance I will have absolutely no confidence hunting anything (clean kill)
well, i can tell you for a fact that shooting pellets is less accurate then shooting BB's why i have no idea, but i just know i get dead on accurate with BB's but not with pellets !!
my god....really??? look at those groups.....those are the most in-accurate air guns I have ever seen.....that's the best they can shoot at only 25 yds?.....that test was a waste of your time.....try it again with an accurate air rifle....maybe Diana or weihrauch........good luck
Their is an indian airgun company which makes a lot of airgun of all kind They are very accurate The gun I use is nx200 athena its a 200 dollar break barrel I get a 1 inch group at 50 meter with open sights
My take is Gamo is pretty much junk?! I assume you found and used the best pellets, that these guns like. No offence intended but those groups are awful.
Ben thanks for the review and the information on the artillery hold. Here is the rifle shooting instructions I received from the my best shooter instructor years ago. He was an army marksman/sniper. The keys are: first, find the balance point of the particular break barrel (any rifle) with and without the optics. Second place your trigger hand on the rifle and find what that distance is from the balance point to the middle of the palm. Third is placing your forehand or bag at that exact distance forward of the balance point basically having the balance point in the middle of your two hands. I use the trigger hand to hold the rifle butt firmly (not hard) against my shoulder shooting pocket! (Ben knows what a shooting pocket is!!) Make sure your forehand acts like a cupped rest not a hold. This method and being precise it very important and has given me the best shooting results on all the rifles I have ever shot. His favorite quote "if you want precision (shooting) you must practice precision"(hold and trigger control).
Great stuff my friend. I was hoping this video would get some great comments and be an asset to people trying to learn better accuracy. You have helped make that happen, Thank you.
Thanks , great advice, but I don't know what is the “shooting pocket”
@@RobertoDelgadoArcos It is the pocket your shoulder muscles and chest muscles make when you raise the trigger arm about 90 degrees ( or even with your shoulder). This is where the butt of the rifle rests. Search you tube for videos if you need a picture instruction.
Great video. It's been a while since I have watched a break barrel video. My mind is blown by how much I've come to expect from my PCP's regarding accuracy and grouping.
I love both PCP and break barrels. Both are fun when you have expectations that match the gun.
@@ShootingGearReviews
Absolutely 👍🏻 The Gamo Cat is what got me started.
It’s hard to tell doing a comparisons between the two holds when the one of the two holds is your go to and one you’ve probably fired thousands upon thousands of pellets using that preferred method would like to see you do it again but with a buddy who’s preferred method is resting on the bags to see if we get any data off of that
Yep, the movement of piston causes rifle to shift prior to pellet leaving barrel...makes sense to me it would be more accurate. Did not really think of it since always think in relation to center/rimfire weapons....but break barrel pellet guns are whole different beast.
So glad I bought the Walther LGU....
I can see by the angle you filmed from that your hand provided a smoth channel for the recoil to follow and with your consistent hold the better accuracy is the result. With a bean bag it will move slightly each time you rest your rifle. In live fires the shot has left the barrel before the recoil hits and pcp's are almost recoiless and there is no excuse for not hitting single holes at 50 yards + . Great video , thanks for your time .
I’d be dissatisfied with those groups at 25 yards , can only presume the pellets used the gun barrel doesn’t like ,, would expect groups that bad at 45 yards , give you a thumbs up and thanks for the video Shane uk
Exactly , I am shooting 1 cm groups at 25 yards with Hatsan 1000x , Norica 3-9 42 scope , no sand bag just a regular elbow lean on a leg and an artilery hold and works great .... aaaand , he didn't pull trigger same all along the way , trigger pull is as much as important as hold
Absolutely true mate 👍👍👍
I shoot Feinwerkbau 124 Deluxe at 30 meters.
5 shots groups with JSB EXACT EXPRESS 4,52mm skirt, 13mm or less all day long...
Came to the comments wondering if anybody else found his groupings to be... not quite ideal lol I've never had groupings that big across the 4 different break barrels I've owned, no matter how I held the rifle, whether it was resting on a window sill, on a bipod, shooting bag, artillery hold, etc.
Nice comparison I to always use the artillery hold just used to it now
Interesting story related to this subject - it's 1997 and I got my second adult airgun, a spring powered Beeman Kodiak in .25 caliber. A hard recoiling beast of a gun (30+ ft/lbs of muzzle energy). I took it shooting and shot off a firm rest, just like I did my firearms. I had not yet heard of the artillery hold. I was testing several different pellets ranging from 21 to 31 grains and shooting at about 25-30 yards. Shot my first group with some 24 grain pellets. Ok groups. After a bit switched the 31 grain pills. What the heck - they're actually shooting HIGHER than the 24 grainers. Ok, let's try the really light 21 grain pellets. What the heck, they're shooting lowest of all?! This pattern happened all day - heavier pellets hitting higher than the lighter pellets. I was stumped. I'd been shooting firearms for 10 years, and everybody knows lighter bullets drop less and hit higher. But then, on the short drive home it dawned on me. I was having a hard time holding the rifle down when I fired it. It wanted to jump all over the place. Like I said, my rest was very firm so that recoil energy went back into the rifle. Eureka! I knew what was happening! When the gun went off, the recoil made it jump up off the rest. Because the slower pellets were in the barrel longer, the gun was getting to a higher angle by the time the pellets exited the muzzle. The next time I went to the range, I tested again but from the standing position where my hands and arms could absorb the recoil. And as I expected, the slower pellets began hitting lower than the faster ones. Mystery solved. And one of the things that makes air gunning so interesting. So many little nuances and oddities like that make it such a fun and challenging sport. Keep the great videos coming, Ben! P.S. That Beeman Kodiak still graces my gun cabinet, has never had a mechanical problem, and performs beautifully. It's a keeper! :)
With gunpowder rifles the bullet has exited before the recoil jumps the gun. Airgun recoil starts before the pellet exits the barrel, thus requiring a much firmer hold of the gun. I find I can stay in better tune using an airgun, those skills that transfer to the powder gun. I have a much firmer hold and accuracy. This same kind of issue occurs with muzzle loaders only it's compounded by the addition of a primer distraction, a delay, then the powder discharge. Novice shooters tend to slack slightly upon the primer charge, the bullet also doesn't exit the rifle before the recoil starts.
@@davidedgar2818 Good point on muzzleloaders! I haven't had one for a long time and didn't think of that. 👍
Exactly artillery is ammo above 20 mm cannon shells Ive never shot onr and Id never hold one. They used one in thunderbolt and light foot.
Below 20mm is commonly referred to as small arms fire even tho it can be deadly.
I would say we just called it the standing position in USMC,laying down Prone sitting with knees bent sucked.Never heard artillery hold till watching pellet guns. Hmmmmm
I bought a gamo swarm whisper for Christmas. I guess if I wanted to a bullseye I need to shoot about a inch from the target
Maybe yours is a lemon. I have had some better than others. Also, break barrels take practice before you get good results. And the gun needs a break in period. After about 300 shots they shoot better.
Ben l have Magnum gen 2 and using hornets 22 cal pellet on pellet up to 25 yards. Also hades 22 cal doing very very well. Choosing the right pellets is the key
I was eager to know all this information as well, coming off of PCP's and getting on a HW97k is just another world for sure! The simplicity of Springer airguns and not have to carry so much more equipment as you must with a pcp is mind blowing...
What's confusing to me and I imagine many others is seeing other folks who have youtube channels to review all kinds of airguns, springers AND PCP's and some freak me out cause they use bags to shoot springers off of, and get great groups! How is that possible!? Then I looked at the techniques the person was using, repeating the shooting part over and over again and saw exactly what he was doing...
He would sort of "balance the rifle (Springer) on the front bag, and very lightly, slightly holding the rear end up from the rear bag, actually the rear bag was just to bring his bent arm up... and this way his groups were actually pretty good. And as he went through the different types of pellets you could actually see the denominator factor of which pellet it performed best with...
I stopped using my pcp's (weirdly enough) to get back to getting my level of marksmanship back up there where I had it, before I got the pcp rifles!
And surely enough, one must conquer the correct hold on a Springer, especially if your gun is above the 12fpe, and hitting the FAC zone (almost three times more power)!!
You set a great quick real example my friend, the groups show the facts!
A. Springers are a bitch at first, lol but once you get that feel for shooting them correctly the nightmare disappears.
B. The artillery hold works, period!!!
By the way, have you ever shot a Weilhrauch German made Springer, break barrel, or an under lever?!
Nice to the point video :-)
Nice review thanks for sharing.
What about a third test gripping the stock hard?
have u tried resting the end of the barrel or close to it on the bag ? from my understanding the double recoil throws the end of the barrel around that why the fliers and lack of accuracy,,,, im trying that soon
Brother you are always full of life how hard do you think the Gamo swarm magnum vs Hatsan 125??? The Hatsan is 50lbs but its a quick like arm wrestle cock not 85 degrees like gamo. Im close to 300 and have never been weak but Im not the only one whos saying this. I believe after 150 shots it should settle down. Im leaning on it using my weight to help and it does. Its like cocking a steel trap in 5 degree weather for Kodiak Bears with him right behind you.
I kept missing with it resting. Sure enough do like he says and bam can't miss. Crazy how that is
Good video my friend,, I agree with you on everything, just one thing, those guns are very powerful specially the magnum, I will recommend for those kind of videos something shooting under 900fps.. soo much power is gonna affect on any break barrel that powerful . Those magazine systems are pretty sweet but sometimes pain in the but!! Causing pellet deformation and you lost accuracy.. try to find the sweet pellet for those guns..after all is a great video putting on the idea on the spot
With a break barrelled gun that does not have a barrel lock as with target models ,putting the sight on the spring tube will always have a slight variation in accuracy .Do you close it carefully/gently or slam it shut? This is why the open sights were always on the barrel .If you have to use a scope then a pistol scope on the barrel would be more suitable .
What weight and brand/style of .22 pellet do you prefer for the .22 magnums?
The gen 2 loading mechanism is possibly not seating the pellets completely in the barrel and clipping the skirts on the back of the pellets and become very inaccurate.
Had the same accuracy problem on my gamo swarm magnum gen 2. It Went back to the store to get looked at and sorted out.
Hopefully 🤬
I notice when I first shot my crossman Optimus it was going left and right on my rest bag but when I hold it like a m4 elbow tuck in and slowly press the trigger I was wayyy accurate
What is the problem? The pellet getting clipped on the back when you close the barrel or the pellets won't group good? Because I shot a lot better group with a rest and not using any stupid artillery hold.
another person was getting really good results with the gamo rocket .22 pellet
For your guns, nice, but, my Ben 1500 .177/4.5 is super anti social, less hold input, max accuracy, and that's up to 100 yds, with 10.5 cros/pre/domes and bundle CP, got Hawk air/max. today, so tomorrow am going for max, wish me luck. Great vid 👉👍
Like your videos👌 thank so much👍
thanks for watching.
Artillery hold is difficult for me I have cerebral palsy I don't know if I should go to a PCP like the Benjamin Maximus which only requires 2,000 PSI to pump up which probably isn't that difficult from what I hear
My Gamo Fusion can do better group without any bags. I loved this gun, it's pretty accurate. I would say the groups you have are not the gun or type of holding problem.
Not to criticize anything here. I'm just 3:25 in so far... I've noticed when you showed how you placed the rifle on the bag with a drop or slam it shot low on both rifles. It was then followed up by high fliers on the next shots shown. Have you ever considered that the break barrel drops ever so slightly when you drop the rifle onto the support bags?
Isn’t artillery hold in a standing or kneeling position?
Yes, it can be used in kneeling and the principals can be applied to standing as well. Here I am showing it used at the bench. In my understanding of the artillery hold it is a hold technique that allows the gun to recoil naturally yet maintaining the aim point by directing the recoil in a straight back and forth motion avoiding movement to either side. This is accomplished by holding the gun at the proper balance point with your forward hand.
Artillery hold simply means letting the front of the gun rest, rather than gripping the forstock and pulling back with the forward hand. Resting the stock on a rest, is an artillery hold. Clamping, or gripping the forstock is not. Oh! Don't rest or hold the barrel either. That will really destroy your accuracy.
Hi, I have a new Diana 350 N-Tec Magnum Classic. This is a powerful spring piston break barrel. Is the artillery hold as recommended for this type of rifle as it is for the spring piston break barrels. Thanks
Do they both run on the gamos inert gas technology system?
I would have liked to seen you do this test using a springer & an IGT as opposed to using two IGT air rifles as you did because I have heard that you need it with the springer because of the "more violent" double recoil you get but not so much (or at all) using an ITG? I have also found that when shooting off of a rest as you are, doesn't yield the same results as when Im shooting using a tree to steady my shot (true artillery hold I guess?) when in the field hunting, and shooting from the rest would lead me to believe I needed much more work sighting it in and in the field Im dropping small birds at 15-20 yards! So I guess in my opinion the artillery hold is good to know in any case and all air rifle shooters should learn how to use it, and determine if your particular air rifle shoots better using it? I just use it by habit now and it always seems to be a good thing! One other thing is that you seem to actually be using two forms of the artillery hold, loose on the bag & loose on your hand sitting loose on the bag?
Excelente Video Ben. Muchas Gracias!!! Queda probado que el "Soporte de Artillería" es la mejor técnica en rifles de quiebre de cañón o incluso de palanca inferior. Thumbs Up!!! : )
Just wondering why you dont adjust the scope... When it's so far off of bullseye...good vid sir...
both elbows out like a bird soaring on artillery hold plus you have to figure out your loose forehand grip some springers like it further back some more forward you have to freehand to find out just remember loose grip let the forehand slide straight back and not tight on the shoulder it wants to move back not up or down so let it
That's odd cuz my hatsan springer shoots very accurate sitting on bags made of rice, and I am using crosman 14.3 g pellets
Not always I have a break barrel gamo it shoots better with a normal hold. It depends on the gun so try it yourself.
Wonder how that principle works with the heavier break barrel guns compared to the Gamo? The Gamo is a 6 lb. gun the Benjamin and Hatsan are 10 lb. guns.
Just a thought. Enjoy your videos.
Great video 👍
You need to test some JSB’S
I don't get it. What's the difference between resting it on your hand and resting it on a bag? There shouldn't be any difference.
Believe me their is a lot
Thanks man me&wifey both have break barrels 22,25&30 cal we both will start using utility hold.
So glad I bought the weihrauch H95. Way more accurate than those gamo’s.
Yeah gamos are just cheap and low quality also they just add shit load of features and fake power info to make them look like a deal of year
@Leon Wilcox The H95 does cost about $100 more than the magnum but it is worth the additional cash. And I am not saying that the magnum is a bad rifle, it is just over powered in my opinion. Break barrels with that much power are very hard to manage and consistency becomes difficult to achieve. Also, I have heard a lot of rumble about those auto feed pellet systems, and although it is a great idea I will wait until significant improvements are made to the design before buying one.
@Leon Wilcox Well let me tell you that I stand corrected, I just saw a video of Ben shooting the magnum at 100 yards and the rifle looked very accurate. And if Gamo worked out the kinks with the the auto loader than this rifle is a contender. So I gladly eat my words, and I bet that we will be seeing other manufacturers coming up with similar auto load systems. Now I must have one of these!
@Leon Wilcox
20.000 pellets ! wow that is a lot of shooting. How long did that take ?
Shot my gamo swarm gen 2
.22 Easter weekend for a first time. Put 250 pellets thru it then the cocking mechanism locked up.
Also found lead shavings on the magazine witch probably meant that the skirts on the pellet were getting clipped when closing the breach. So the loading mechanism was not seating the pellets completely in to the barrel.
Its back at the store getting looked at.
Hopefully its just a one off.
What pellets are best for the gamo swarm fusion? I hunt a lot so i need a good hunting pellet
I've always only fired once I was comfortable with my surroundings (very important) and whatever hold.
It seemed to me fairly obvious that if you were in an uncomfortable and awkward position, your shot was going to be awkward as well.
Good comparison sir, I want to buy planning this break barrel Gamo👍🙏
Need to use the same gun for the tests. All guns have variations
Excellent !
I never use artillery hold when shooting off the bag, and that is with a Beeman R1 Magnum. The gun is rested, and can do it's thing all it wants, and even more smoothly than trying to move in a sweaty hand. It shoots light out every shot out to 50 yards all day long. Cut playing cards in half, bullseye no problem. I only do artillery hold when I am not shooting off of a bag.
With break barrel guns there are greater harmonics. The artillery hold may "dampen" the harmonics more than when resting the rifle on a rest.
Your theory makes sense, never really thought about that. Going to give it a try.
Which is your favorite pellet for the .22 magnum for accuracy?
JSB Hades
Not a single reviewer mentions that pellet keep falling out of magazine
when did you shoot at 30 yrds?, the top of the screen said 25 yrds until you quit. 5 yrds makes a big difference.
I agree. If artillery hold on top of bag is better than just the bag, then the firmness of the bag should also make a difference. I assume a soft bag would be better than a firm bag.
That Artillery hold with a bag thats still sand bag support
but, am in Florida too, so that could part of the reason too.
I use both methods when shooting break barrels and never get the results you showed.
Interesting. I would say these results are pretty typical with most guns and most shooters. but there are exceptions to every rule.
That Gamo Swarm Magnum is very accurate
Yes it is. It's a great rifle.
It is extremely accurate... mine does very well when you just hold it like a rim fire. And it loves H&N Sniper Magnums and H&N Hornets.
you need to see how a REAL accurate air rifle shoots....these are not accurate guns.....come on...they are gamos lol lol lol
@@ratorgersen7938 what are you doing here
yea, i agree i don't think the accurate problem does not go to the gun or the way you was holding it, i think you need to zero it out better
My Gamo hates being with 10 feet of a bag
Oh it matters
I shoot soda cans at 50 yards off hand with iron sights.
These guns don't seem to be very accurate? Huge spread even with resting on a bag at only 25yards, and I don't think it's the shooter. I am/was thinking of buying a swarm fusion (called a "Roadster" in Europe for some reason) but this video has got me worried. Comments please.
any new air rifle needs to be broken in 100- 500 pellets before you even start to worry about sighting it in, I shot mine with the open sights (150 pellets) Crosman pellets before even putting on my new Hawke scope to sight it in with my H&N pellets and wont know for sure if its their (group tightens up) till I shoot the hole 500 tin of them?
@@Frank-uf2vn That can't be, what the hell are you breaking in it ain't an engine. I barely bought the 400 pellets left at the store and you want me to use em all without even aiming?
@@Hackerman-bd9hq No! aiming is usually a good idea! What I was saying is dont worry about your groupings because it will shoot sporadically until broken in , one minute its dead on and the next your an inch or two high or low, dont worry about chasing your shots on paper, until you put several hundred shots through it. If it starts shooting tighter groups sooner "great".
@@Frank-uf2vn Ok, so now my only confusion is what your breaking in? Seals? What?
@@Hackerman-bd9hq break-in period to burn off excess lubricants from the factory,
many air rifles are returned because the new owners don't see immediate accuracy.
25 yards you say. Great grooping ???
Gamo did not shoot very good groups ?
It doesn't matter how the hell you hold your gun as long as you get the ammo to its intended retirement point.
wow these brake barrel guns seem to suffer when comes to accuracy as far as ive seen on you tube
I love your videos! I must admit that I am not impressed with any of the groups! At that distance I will have absolutely no confidence hunting anything (clean kill)
Be aware of how you pull your trigger , and you could just using sand bags , those are light guns. Very poor accuracy at 25 meters
Any comparison should be same guns and same pellets, therefore this is not a scientific comparison is it?
If that is your grouping at 25 yards the best thing is give up
For the rest of the non-USA world 25 yards = 22.8m
U never did a artillery hold u were resting on the bag both times free hand is artillery hold u let it set on ur hand free float it.
well, i can tell you for a fact that shooting pellets is less accurate then shooting BB's why i have no idea, but i just know i get dead on accurate with BB's but not with pellets !!
you should not really be holding the gun....you should just be resting it on the palm of you hand with your hand steadied on the bag....try it
i got the swarm fusion 10x gen 2 .22 myself and i do better grouping then you, lmao but only after i got it zero in right
Springers don't like bags, it a universal law of physics. PCP guns are opposite. Take it to the bank.
You wont need to youll be dead with a 12 ft long right arm.
you know its low budget when the freaking target is getting moved by wind
my god....really??? look at those groups.....those are the most in-accurate air guns I have ever seen.....that's the best they can shoot at only 25 yds?.....that test was a waste of your time.....try it again with an accurate air rifle....maybe Diana or weihrauch........good luck
Yeah some real shit groups gamo is a shitty company they just add ton of features and fake power info to male them look good
Their is an indian airgun company which makes a lot of airgun of all kind
They are very accurate
The gun I use is nx200 athena its a 200 dollar break barrel
I get a 1 inch group at 50 meter with open sights
Too many ricochet's, what the hech are ya shooting at?
your kidding me
Who is gonna take accuracy tips from you😂
Dude I’d take that swarm fusion and throw it in the trash. Wow what a shitty shooter
but, i will be moving back to Texas when i can, Florida sucks, lmao
Plus my Hatsan grouped better than your gammo
My take is Gamo is pretty much junk?! I assume you found and used the best pellets, that these guns like. No offence intended but those groups are awful.
Why gun is this very bad accuracy bro
I've Always shot better holding the rifle
Buy a PCP.
all i can say is learn how to shoot
Do this for better accuracy! Throw gamo in lake and buy real 22 lr.