So, when it comes to casting spells with Etali's trigger, you can certainly place them onto the stack in any order you wish, but ALL of them must be on the stack before any of them can resolve, as Etali's trigger is all one effect. You cannot choose to cast Spine of Ish Sah first, pay for the Sphere, let it resolve, then cast the others without paying the tax. All of those spells are cast at that moment (if you choose to) and all of them are taxed. Hopefully this helps with future games involving Etali.
Been binge watching a lot of your older videos. I've really got to hand it to you. The quality level of your current videos are miles ahead. It's really impressive how much progress you've made. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed pretty much every video of yours that I've watched. The commentary has always been at a high quality level, though.
This was a weird one... it was like, “pick on Kevin pick on Kevin pick on Kevin.. oh he’s almost dead? Stop picking on him.” Like if he’s already at 5, just finish him off 😒
So, Kevin was picked on because of revenge... never underestimate the power of hatred. :D TBH, even if there hadn't been a past game, if someone attacked my mana base like this, I would go after them in future games forever. Like the Professor said at GameKnights: "There will be repercussions. Maybe not in this game, but there will be repercussions."
That is such a weird mentality. Where is the line? If I see someone playing for revenge I see someone who isn't really playing the same game as me. Yes be distracted by your little vendetta. I'll take this game.
Not to discount what you are saying, but I think Kevin was right to Ruination and screw over armen. Armen had already attacked him twice for a significant amount of damage, despite the other players being in a stronger position. He was playing a very greedy mana base and he was punished for that and his early aggression. I like to think Kevin would have saved the ruination for much later had he not been getting so much aggression targeted toward him (or rather he would have played other cards, but I bet he felt like he needed to do something or else he would be attacked out of the game).
No, I think Kevin would've still used it right away, because that particular mass land destruction in his deck is meant to delay the opponents until he can bring Etali to the field and start the fun.
I mean the aggression against Kevin wasn't that much until he cast the Ruination. No one would find fault in going hard attacking someone who just blew up all of your lands.
I don't think that interaction with Sphere of Resistance at 9:58 is correct. Etali makes you cast as many spells as you want without paying the mana cost at the time the trigger resolves. So all spells you decide to cast go on the stack simultaneously and you only choose the order. You still have to pay any additional costs, like the sphere. When Kevin cast the sphere this wasn't an issue as he could simply resolve it last. You still had enough mana, but may be relevant in future games.
For Kevin's Etali trigger that cast the Sphere: Regardless of the order the Sphere was cast, it wouldn't be on the battlefield by the time costs were paid for everything, and therefore it wouldn't tax any of those things. You're correct about Muddstah needing to pay the taxes on his trigger thereafter.
I loved it too, partially because I had something similar happen to me in a Commander game this weekend. A player cast Chaos Warp on my Oblivion Stone in an effort to force me to blow it (he was getting attacked for a large amount of damage). Nope, I don't negotiate either!
@@exsimon he left all the creatures on the table for the two people who were pissed that they lost all their lands to ruination. Those people then beat up on the other monored player.
Those cards exiled by Vance's Blasting Cannons should have been face up. BTW LOVE your videos, this is my favorite edh channel, keep up the great work Muddstah, love from Argentina!
Been a long time viewer but never commented. Just wanted to say thanks for putting in the work and effort to provide me with some entertainment every week.
PJ always makes the absolute banger intros. Wish we could get some guest commentary from him. Also, when are we gonna get the professor to do an intro!
Mazirek seems to be the only one breaking the theme of an all-mostly? red pod. As much as I abhor mass land destruction, Ruination is one of the "fair" versions since it doesn't eliminate basic lands. With that said, it still hurts for most decks since a lot of commander decks rely on lands that tap for more than 1 color.
It only hurts people with greedy manabases. I've never had any issues with Ruination screwing over my mana in 3 color decks. That's one of the downsides of running a lot of colors and having an unstable manabase. It's not hard to play-test your deck and tune the basic count in a 3 color deck so you're not mana screwed or don't have all of your colors.
@@Battleguild They changed that with the Eldrazi that care about actual colorless mana. You can see those with the diamond mana symbol. You still need to abide by the color identity while building a deck but any card that can produce mana of any color or say Fellwar Stone can make mana of colors that are not your commander identity.
His commander let's him play his opponents cards off the top of their deck, you might get a creature with an activated ability that has a cost outside of red.
I'm slowly leaning towards implementing more land destruction effects into my decks. As much as I hate it, they can lock one or more players out of a game pretty well. The downside is, the only way to fight land destruction is for someone else to also have it, and in EDH the ends may justify the means. I feel like Ruination is an excellent card for mono red, but I would stick to Decree of Annihilation, Worldslayer, or Myojin of Infinite Rage to make sure that I didn't get targeted as heavily when everyone put their boards back together.
I think you could have taken out Kevin one turn earlier. Activate mirage mirror to turn it into a mountain and then play the 6th mountain targetting Kevin with that on the stack you could also still copy etali with it :)
Maybe I was saying OMG and wow too many times to pay attention if valakut was gone but at the end didn't you miss some triggers with all the B.H.'s mimic vat was making?
13:35 ok so why is it 'not a good position to be in' if you have to use tutors to find lands after a land-wipe? Isn't it kinda the purpose of a tutor to find you a card you need to help you win the game?
@@MTGMuddstah finding a second land IS the ideal use for that tutor in that situation. The situation demands mana, and the tutor delivers it. That is what it is for. In this case, the tutored card may not be a combo piece, but it is still a card that helps you win the game, ie get mana to do so. Compare it to a cultivate. You use a land tutor to get you lands in play. But you could of course play a creature tutor instead but what's the point in that if you need the mana first Would you not play a ramp spell if you need one because the land is not by itself winning you the game?
That's because the other PWs exile themselves and then return to the field transformed. Garruk Relentless, however, transforms without leaving the battlefield, so control of him doesn't "reset".
So, one sticking point with this game. Mudstah taps 3 instead of 2 to activate Mirage Mirror. If he hadn't overtapped, he wpuld have had enough mana to Ruinblaster plus activate Mindslaver, rather than choosing between the two.
Wait wait wait :D You tell us they targeted Kevin because he stomped you the game BEFORE? If I would have been Armen or Mark I would have targeted Kevin for blowing up (essentially) my whole landbase for the rest of the game. That would have been reason enough ^^'''
Yeah, land destruction is poop soup. I straight up won't play with people who make a habit of blowing up lands. Kill my Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle? I understand. That's reasonable. Cast Armageddon and now I don't get to play the game? I'm not cool with that.
It depends on how much of it you play and when you play it. Any amount is going to bother me, but I can mostly just brush it off as long as I can still play the game. I remember the first time I played with this one guy at my LGS. I had a bit of a slow start and he dropped a Smoke Stack around turn 3-4. Needless to say, I did not get to play that game.
If you're playing hyper competitive games, no one is going to be complaining about the methods you use. At that point, it's not about having fun. It's about winning. That style is fine and I can enjoy it from time to time. However, I was playing my fight tribal deck against the previously mentioned Smoke Stack player. So, yeah, it's a bit different when every one goes into the game with that understanding.
Its just bad sportsmanship to target someone that previously beat you in game. Its just terrible attitude and the reason why I hate the playgroups around me.
Game really highlighted the importance of removal, both creature and land, in edh. It goes back to deck building well. lmao@ babies mad at a runation in comments.
Kevin basically went from destroying all non-basics, neutering Armen and Mark, to trying to force a wrath. If Muddstah popped the disk it basically would have completely taken Armen and Mark out of the game and left Kevin in a 1v1 with Muddstah. Instead, by not blowing up the disk, he keeps Armen and Mark in the game to help keep Kevin busy by having to consider the boards of two other players in addition to Muddstah. If he popped the disk, we probably would have seen Etali come down a lot sooner since Kevin would have been in a position to play very aggressively.
I felt the salt from here, noone wants to play against a hate deck and his itali was that, I bet his entire strat is play removal and let itali be the win con
I don’t enjoy mass land destruction just because it makes the game boring every time. Nothing is fun about playing magic by yourself while your opponents dont have lands
Not every time... when you're at a winning position and Armageddon the board just to make sure you'll retain that position and end the game in the next two or three turns, I personally think it's fine, even if I'm not particularly happy about it. Using a mass land destruction just to stall, however... yeah, it sucks and no one should ever do it.
If he blows his opponents' lands (especially the ones who were most likely to have removal for Etali) then gets Etali out, he's massively ahead because he gets to swing with a giant guy and cast multiple spells a turn while they're stuck. You won't get bored long if he hits a couple big spells and you know you won't be able to mount a defense before he finishes you off, scooping in anticipation.
I really hate land destruction, it's just saying "hey let us play magic, but please don't play anything". Don't get me wrong there are some lands who are very powerfull and need to be removed, but not this time.
You may as well say the same thing about extra turns, stealing other people's creatures, bounce spells, counterspells, discard, etc. It's part of the game and a viable strategy.
@@mrzhou7685 yeah you could say the same thing about these things aswell, but destroing lands is the thing i hate the most. It's just something personal i guess. When you play for a price i think thats totally okay, but in a casual group where you and your friends are there to have fun it's not okay. When i build a deck i always think about "is this fun to play against" and not have fun myself. We also had someone who brought someone in the group who just played mean infinite combo stuff, that was a higher power level as what we played. In the end we just didn't invite that player anymore because he allways won and we didn't had fun with "ok we all need to focus him" since he would end the game before it began. Sorry für the super long answer tho ^^"
So, when it comes to casting spells with Etali's trigger, you can certainly place them onto the stack in any order you wish, but ALL of them must be on the stack before any of them can resolve, as Etali's trigger is all one effect. You cannot choose to cast Spine of Ish Sah first, pay for the Sphere, let it resolve, then cast the others without paying the tax. All of those spells are cast at that moment (if you choose to) and all of them are taxed. Hopefully this helps with future games involving Etali.
Good to know! Thankfully I believe I had more than enough mana to resolve them in any case, but I'll watch for that moving forward. Thanks.
Been binge watching a lot of your older videos. I've really got to hand it to you. The quality level of your current videos are miles ahead. It's really impressive how much progress you've made. Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed pretty much every video of yours that I've watched. The commentary has always been at a high quality level, though.
This was a weird one... it was like, “pick on Kevin pick on Kevin pick on Kevin.. oh he’s almost dead? Stop picking on him.” Like if he’s already at 5, just finish him off 😒
Indeed, I am guessing it was due to the land destruction through
So, Kevin was picked on because of revenge... never underestimate the power of hatred. :D
TBH, even if there hadn't been a past game, if someone attacked my mana base like this, I would go after them in future games forever. Like the Professor said at GameKnights: "There will be repercussions. Maybe not in this game, but there will be repercussions."
That is such a weird mentality. Where is the line? If I see someone playing for revenge I see someone who isn't really playing the same game as me. Yes be distracted by your little vendetta. I'll take this game.
I never said I'm going after someone who wronged me and ignoring everyone else, dude. I know my priorities.
Not to discount what you are saying, but I think Kevin was right to Ruination and screw over armen. Armen had already attacked him twice for a significant amount of damage, despite the other players being in a stronger position. He was playing a very greedy mana base and he was punished for that and his early aggression. I like to think Kevin would have saved the ruination for much later had he not been getting so much aggression targeted toward him (or rather he would have played other cards, but I bet he felt like he needed to do something or else he would be attacked out of the game).
No, I think Kevin would've still used it right away, because that particular mass land destruction in his deck is meant to delay the opponents until he can bring Etali to the field and start the fun.
I mean the aggression against Kevin wasn't that much until he cast the Ruination. No one would find fault in going hard attacking someone who just blew up all of your lands.
Awesome. New intro if I am not mistaken.
Thank you for your quality content. Watching your new video is the first thing I do every Monday and Thursday. Keep up the good work!
I don't think that interaction with Sphere of Resistance at 9:58 is correct. Etali makes you cast as many spells as you want without paying the mana cost at the time the trigger resolves. So all spells you decide to cast go on the stack simultaneously and you only choose the order. You still have to pay any additional costs, like the sphere. When Kevin cast the sphere this wasn't an issue as he could simply resolve it last.
You still had enough mana, but may be relevant in future games.
Good to know!
For Kevin's Etali trigger that cast the Sphere: Regardless of the order the Sphere was cast, it wouldn't be on the battlefield by the time costs were paid for everything, and therefore it wouldn't tax any of those things.
You're correct about Muddstah needing to pay the taxes on his trigger thereafter.
I love the political decision to not press the button on the Nev's Disk
I loved it too, partially because I had something similar happen to me in a Commander game this weekend. A player cast Chaos Warp on my Oblivion Stone in an effort to force me to blow it (he was getting attacked for a large amount of damage). Nope, I don't negotiate either!
Why though? What did he gain by not blowing it up?
@@exsimon he left all the creatures on the table for the two people who were pissed that they lost all their lands to ruination. Those people then beat up on the other monored player.
Those cards exiled by Vance's Blasting Cannons should have been face up. BTW LOVE your videos, this is my favorite edh channel, keep up the great work Muddstah, love from Argentina!
Been a long time viewer but never commented. Just wanted to say thanks for putting in the work and effort to provide me with some entertainment every week.
Best thing to watch on a Birthday! 🎁 Watching for a while love the content!
love the intros. good work getting another great commander game out to the fans.
Thx muddstah for all these wonderful gameplay... These make me happy
PJ always makes the absolute banger intros. Wish we could get some guest commentary from him.
Also, when are we gonna get the professor to do an intro!
Ayyy was that Commander Replay on the intro? Hell yeah!
It's super cool to see an Alesha at the table! Would love to see it again!
Almost #allredtable and a Full #nobluetable.
10:00
You could use Mirage mirror to copy the Spitfire Bastion. Taking out the Etali player :D
Amazing intro. War-torch goblin, amirite?
Yes indeed :) Saw it a while back and thought it was fitting for Andrew.
Only just started watching mtgmuddstah love the content!
I appreciate the Agrus Kos quote at the beginning :)
So many burnished harts! Nice one Muddstah! 😁
Mazirek seems to be the only one breaking the theme of an all-mostly? red pod.
As much as I abhor mass land destruction, Ruination is one of the "fair" versions since it doesn't eliminate basic lands. With that said, it still hurts for most decks since a lot of commander decks rely on lands that tap for more than 1 color.
It only hurts people with greedy manabases. I've never had any issues with Ruination screwing over my mana in 3 color decks. That's one of the downsides of running a lot of colors and having an unstable manabase. It's not hard to play-test your deck and tune the basic count in a 3 color deck so you're not mana screwed or don't have all of your colors.
I made a Deretti deck just like this a few years ago, and it’s my favorite deck.
“Kevin, Kevin! Watch the triggers! -dies to Valakut-“
Can someone please explain the reasoning behind Kevin playing chromatic lantern in a mono-coloured deck?
So you can use the activated abilities of cards you borrow with Etali.
@@Starsoulklr
I thought any colors produced outside your commander's color identity became colorless? Or did they change that rule?
@@Battleguild They changed that with the Eldrazi that care about actual colorless mana. You can see those with the diamond mana symbol.
You still need to abide by the color identity while building a deck but any card that can produce mana of any color or say Fellwar Stone can make mana of colors that are not your commander identity.
His commander let's him play his opponents cards off the top of their deck, you might get a creature with an activated ability that has a cost outside of red.
Why are the cards that are exiled by Vance's cannons face down? I'm 99% sure they are supposed to be face up.
Yes they are revealed.
Commander Replay intros are always the best
I agree :)
ah finally, Mazirek gets some love! He is actually my favorite under rated commander
Boy, you kinda had the game handed to you, didn't you, Muddstah?
Mirage Mirror is such a great card, finding myself putting it in alot of my EDH decks.
I'm slowly leaning towards implementing more land destruction effects into my decks. As much as I hate it, they can lock one or more players out of a game pretty well. The downside is, the only way to fight land destruction is for someone else to also have it, and in EDH the ends may justify the means. I feel like Ruination is an excellent card for mono red, but I would stick to Decree of Annihilation, Worldslayer, or Myojin of Infinite Rage to make sure that I didn't get targeted as heavily when everyone put their boards back together.
Counters and spells like Teferi's Protection or Heroic Intervention also protect you from MLD.
I think you could have taken out Kevin one turn earlier. Activate mirage mirror to turn it into a mountain and then play the 6th mountain targetting Kevin with that on the stack you could also still copy etali with it :)
Wish I had active card stores in my town. Would love to play commander matches
Yeah! OG Ravnica's Wartorch Goblin flavor text!
Maybe I was saying OMG and wow too many times to pay attention if valakut was gone but at the end didn't you miss some triggers with all the B.H.'s mimic vat was making?
13:35 ok so why is it 'not a good position to be in' if you have to use tutors to find lands after a land-wipe? Isn't it kinda the purpose of a tutor to find you a card you need to help you win the game?
Right, but in the ideal world he'd use the tutor for a winning card or something more relevant.
@@MTGMuddstah finding a second land IS the ideal use for that tutor in that situation. The situation demands mana, and the tutor delivers it. That is what it is for. In this case, the tutored card may not be a combo piece, but it is still a card that helps you win the game, ie get mana to do so.
Compare it to a cultivate. You use a land tutor to get you lands in play. But you could of course play a creature tutor instead but what's the point in that if you need the mana first
Would you not play a ramp spell if you need one because the land is not by itself winning you the game?
Got that Mazirek decklist yet? Curious here
Why didn't you target Kevin with the gearhulk triggers in order to draw cards?
What's with the spikes on Lavaclaw Reach?
Not that it would have made a difference, but you could have copied Valakut with Mirage Mirror to do even more damage.
I've done that in the past. My best was using Thespian Stage to copy Valakut, Mirror to copy it, and the normal Valakut out. Good times.
or copy a mountain the turn before to take down Kevin earlier :)
I look forward to next videos intro... and the gameplay too I guess
What's so great about Prismatic Lens?
Yay! Wartorch Goblin intro!
When Kevin took down Ugin for 6 shouldn't your mirage mirror, trading post and grim monolith go into exile as well as the others nonland permanents?
ugin only hits coloured cards. the mentioned artifacts are all colourless
@@evilanimegenious Totally forgot about the second part of the ability. Lol
Are you competing with SaffronOlive for pronunciations? :)
I like the background music
Vance's Blasting Cannons exiles the cards face up
Can you flip Garruk if you don't actually own him?
I thought he would either just die or return to his owner, transformed.
That's because the other PWs exile themselves and then return to the field transformed. Garruk Relentless, however, transforms without leaving the battlefield, so control of him doesn't "reset".
Did Armen can target Daretti with Goblin Bombardment ? It is only creature or player
It has been changed to any target with the removal of planeswalker damage redirection.
@@Xartah So all cards says "creature or player" can target planewalkers ?
@@Xartah Old cards i mean
@@maximehenry-morley5793 yes
I actually laugh at the "overlaod vandalblast/nevy disc turn 7 :)
I'm just here for the Etali triggers
One year later and still no
Mezirek decklist 😥😢😭
They still haven't sent it =(
It's okay. You're still my favorite MTG TH-camr. >:D
So, one sticking point with this game. Mudstah taps 3 instead of 2 to activate Mirage Mirror. If he hadn't overtapped, he wpuld have had enough mana to Ruinblaster plus activate Mindslaver, rather than choosing between the two.
Is Daretti your first commander deck??
I feel like outside of other games, I would target the etalli player first, as etalli is insane card advantage
Pappi Daretti, always seems to pull through. :)
Wait wait wait :D You tell us they targeted Kevin because he stomped you the game BEFORE? If I would have been Armen or Mark I would have targeted Kevin for blowing up (essentially) my whole landbase for the rest of the game. That would have been reason enough ^^'''
Yeah, land destruction is poop soup. I straight up won't play with people who make a habit of blowing up lands. Kill my Cabal Coffers or Gaea's Cradle? I understand. That's reasonable. Cast Armageddon and now I don't get to play the game? I'm not cool with that.
It depends on how much of it you play and when you play it. Any amount is going to bother me, but I can mostly just brush it off as long as I can still play the game. I remember the first time I played with this one guy at my LGS. I had a bit of a slow start and he dropped a Smoke Stack around turn 3-4. Needless to say, I did not get to play that game.
If you're playing hyper competitive games, no one is going to be complaining about the methods you use. At that point, it's not about having fun. It's about winning. That style is fine and I can enjoy it from time to time. However, I was playing my fight tribal deck against the previously mentioned Smoke Stack player. So, yeah, it's a bit different when every one goes into the game with that understanding.
Its just bad sportsmanship to target someone that previously beat you in game. Its just terrible attitude and the reason why I hate the playgroups around me.
Can we get an F for Andrew's graveyard in the beginning? That Bog was devastating
Game really highlighted the importance of removal, both creature and land, in edh. It goes back to deck building well. lmao@ babies mad at a runation in comments.
Still wanting to hear the goblin slayer goblin noise
Remember.
Basic lands are NOT bad lands.
MARK, Y U NO RED?
Mark has not seen the glory of our savior, Red, in action.
Kevin is the real MVP
Since you never controlled Ugin, it should get exiled as Kevin left the game, see 800.4a
Jesus they really hated on Kevin that game.
Yay
There’s something satisfying about Ruination destroying multicolored decks. #GloryToMono
Tad bit too long goblin intro imo
Its the flavor text of War-torch Goblin. Its really wordy but I thought it fits the channel.
Mirage Mirror
- top
This was just “I hate Kevin” the game
That intro was long oma
Wotc has to print a card named goblin noise, just for the memes
commander replay
Ruination is insane, lol
I cringed at the Disk not being activated
Kevin basically went from destroying all non-basics, neutering Armen and Mark, to trying to force a wrath. If Muddstah popped the disk it basically would have completely taken Armen and Mark out of the game and left Kevin in a 1v1 with Muddstah.
Instead, by not blowing up the disk, he keeps Armen and Mark in the game to help keep Kevin busy by having to consider the boards of two other players in addition to Muddstah. If he popped the disk, we probably would have seen Etali come down a lot sooner since Kevin would have been in a position to play very aggressively.
I felt the salt from here, noone wants to play against a hate deck and his itali was that, I bet his entire strat is play removal and let itali be the win con
Yeah just slam the etali player while daretti goes off
Shattering spree that early is such a waste.
Kevin kinda deserved it...
mazirek deck never dropped a single sac card. wtf?
You butchered rhetoric xD
Find and Finally LUL
Eidelon of RheTORic
First
Why was Kevin cheating by putting his exiled cards face down?
He may have played a different deck that puts them face-down, and just accidentally carried that over to this game.
Armen and muddstah are literally the worst kinda players in EDH this game, no politics, ganging up on the weakest player
papa Daretti ? you wouldn't happen to be a fan of the band ghost would you?
Jesus that was a lot of picking on one dude. Not really a very entertaining video because of it. Kinda lame.
I don’t enjoy mass land destruction just because it makes the game boring every time. Nothing is fun about playing magic by yourself while your opponents dont have lands
Not every time... when you're at a winning position and Armageddon the board just to make sure you'll retain that position and end the game in the next two or three turns, I personally think it's fine, even if I'm not particularly happy about it.
Using a mass land destruction just to stall, however... yeah, it sucks and no one should ever do it.
If he blows his opponents' lands (especially the ones who were most likely to have removal for Etali) then gets Etali out, he's massively ahead because he gets to swing with a giant guy and cast multiple spells a turn while they're stuck. You won't get bored long if he hits a couple big spells and you know you won't be able to mount a defense before he finishes you off, scooping in anticipation.
Armoric so you’re agreeing with me, its to stop other players from casting spells so you can play magic by yourself.
Daretti, le sigh.
Other than that great game.
I really hate land destruction, it's just saying "hey let us play magic, but please don't play anything". Don't get me wrong there are some lands who are very powerfull and need to be removed, but not this time.
You may as well say the same thing about extra turns, stealing other people's creatures, bounce spells, counterspells, discard, etc. It's part of the game and a viable strategy.
@@mrzhou7685 yeah you could say the same thing about these things aswell, but destroing lands is the thing i hate the most. It's just something personal i guess. When you play for a price i think thats totally okay, but in a casual group where you and your friends are there to have fun it's not okay. When i build a deck i always think about "is this fun to play against" and not have fun myself. We also had someone who brought someone in the group who just played mean infinite combo stuff, that was a higher power level as what we played. In the end we just didn't invite that player anymore because he allways won and we didn't had fun with "ok we all need to focus him" since he would end the game before it began. Sorry für the super long answer tho ^^"