Acheron feels so incomplete without her LC istg. i have her E0S0 and sure, i clear MOC and PF fine with her but i can just feel that if i get her LC, it's gonna be much better playing her as i am now. that extra stack means a lot.
trueee. Although jiaoqiu does increase the preference of e2 over s1 because of his stack gen compared to the other nihilities. in the f2p team core though my s1 is my saviour
I with feixiao team and same party like the video all E0S0, i got 1 cycle same result like in the video on acheron. So yeah acheron no f2p friendly '-'
i dont have her lc since i lost the 75/25 and dude ur so right but thankfully jq unbricked my acheron i will still be going for her lc on the rerun for the extra damage/stack
She literally doesn't lose that much value without E2 or Lightcone. Her base kit is so damn complete. The damage increase with the burst of Crimson knot stacks is crazy, she has built-in All Type Res Pen, Weakness Ignore and is AoE. The only good thing about signature lightcone is the free crit dmg and one extra stack. E0 Jiaoqiu with E0 Acheron is a free stack generator. @@unaicasal3061
Using Acheron against a 40% res boss and feixiao against a 20% res boss with her also having robin e2 is a bit unfair. You are comparing Acheron at basically half damage to Feixiao at 104% damage.
E2 robin but s1 jiao and e6 pela. The cost is comparable. Since literally everyone has free e6 march and Robin e1 is what makes an actual difference in the run, e2 does practically nothing here.
@@o0ugi860 cost is comparable but it isn’t fair, Robin’s e1 and 2 are unconditional buffs you can’t control, but Acheron’s e2 just allows you to kick out a nihility. The one stack of crimson knots that Acheron gains from her e2 requires her to take 9 personal turns for it to even benefit her enough for an extra ult- so you can’t argue that either. It would have likely been a better comparison if you ended up replacing Pela here with Bronya e0/e1 (since standard characters are considered 0 cost up to e1s1
@@o0ugi860 e6 pela doesnt do anything? plus hm7 and robin contributes to team damage a lot more than jia and pela. i think he shouldve used e2 acheron and put RM there to negate the lightning res.
Kind of unfair to use Acheron on a boss who has crazy resistance to her element and no one in her party except Aven can lower the toughness bar, and then use Robin + March which are crazy sub dps characters for Fei's side and Kafka being weak to all their elements.
@@Why_So_Meanthen he could add Topass to the team to balance it out but that being said even then it would Favor Acheron more because with JQ Robin is better then Sparkle with her.
Acheron ult has res pen +Jiaoqio applies vulnerability ( acts similarly with res pen so you compensate the resistance with the vulnerability ) meanwhile fei xiao has no vulnerability nor res pen just pure Brute force
we really can't exactly compare 2 units in HSR since content catering is so volatile, against this MoC and the next one, Feixiao is better because of weaknesses and MoC buffs, but we all know all it takes to make Acheron better is the enemy having a shared hp trait
@@bewitted1169feixiao’s lowest cost is 5 vs the 5 million hp boss, Acheron’s lowest cost vs the 5 million I’ve seen is 3. Is there a feixiao 2 cost 0 cycle on the TV out there? Please let me know
i wonder how acheron and feixiao fare against each other 2nd half to see how they compare when the element advantage is reversed. i think which is better depends on how u look at it. acheron is a bit behind feixiao in memory of chaos and apocalyptic shadow (if they're both on-element and E0S1 they can reliably 1 cycle at most in moc in my experience), but acheron is comfortably better in pure fiction so i would argue she has more consistency in effectiveness
@@tactaillike aventurine is interesting because in order to win his dice rolls u want aoe but when it comes to attacking him specifically, single-target is better. i think that's part of the reason why some people struggle with him is because in order to use a rushdown character u kind of want cc immunity from ur sustain because of how likely you are to lose dice rolls in the 2nd phase
Cool video. I don’t really have a dog in this race as I own and love both characters but this is not really a fair comparison. I know you have to do it with what content we have access to. That being said the fact that acherons team only had herself and Adventurine working on toughness bars and Fei’s team was almost perfectly matched up to rip toughness bars is a massive advantage without getting into resistances or how busted Robins eidolons are and March 7th is an insane sub DPS but it’s all good Fei is a absolute monster and having a ton of fun with her
So... I have both E2S1. As a per se char, I really think Acheron is stronger (strong Single target and insane AOE), but Fei has the better team / synergy , Robin, Aventurine and then the 4th slot being flexible (Topaz, Jade, Moze, March or even another Support). So in future I think we will see fluctuations in those teams dominance, depending on what the new chars will bring to those two
Isn't trend kinda pointless on aventurine if you're already using jiaoqiu, cuz you can't get more than one stack per enemy turn(correct me if I'm wrong)
Technically you can get more stacks with any bosses with double actions since jiaoqiu only triggers once, but yes 99% of the time it's redundant outside of pf (since you can waste all 6 of jiaoqius ult apps quite quick in some pfs)
it's not useless. Jiao gives a stack per enemy turn, trend can give a stack per enemy attack. So, if an enemy takes a turn and attacks twice, first you will get a stack from Jiao then you will get a stack from trend on the second attack. Same goes for any out of turn attacks from the enemies
Kinda stings to say as an acheron main but it's fei, it's her. The experience I have had having fei Robin and aven even with just March is beyond amazing the whole team feels like a single unit, they synergise so well with each other at the same time being strong individual units it's crazy. I do have Robin e1 but fei is E0S0 and i just got a 210 av clear on aven in apocalyptic shadow with fei herta aven Robin. A run with a sustain! It's honestly disgustingly good. To add my acheron team is usually Gallagher acheron E0s1and jiaoqiu E0S1 with pela. It's amazing BUT as i said above besides jq, the team doesn't feel as cohesive as the fei one.
Fei's synergy is a whole archetype (FuA) while Acheron has a niche, which is wanting debuffs, not what I would call an archetype, that's why Fei has a lot more options than Acheron, and probably will always do. Before JQ people kept saying wait for the 5 star debuffer, then he arrived and did help Acheron, but then new kid on the street Fei comes in and now people are saying wait for the debuff sustain (there currently are no leaks of such a character either).
Cuz fei already had bis team for her with 3 different options for second hunt, e4 bronya, what some f2p have, when acheron have only 1 jiaoqiu, she doesn't have sustain, and even at e0 it's better to use sparkle, even robin gives her way more than pela, personally tested, it was 2 cycles less with robin than with pela,like both equally so no bias, acheron just lack that perfect synergy chars what fei already have
@@greenvega that's what I am saying, having such a complete team at release makes fei feel really good to play. I had to cope with gui and pela until i got Robin and even then it took me a while to get to know the Robin qpq Gallagher strat, jq was a huge upgrade but the team still is missing the completeness that I get from fei fua. Hopefully we get a better buffer/debuffer and a sustain too. I am pinning my hopes on a dot sustain.
I think imo firefly is the best f2p dps It's low-key hard to build acheron as an f2p, and the last time I said that I got trashed for my build, and I'm not kidding My acheron only does 170k per ult which isnt much compared to P2w acherons hitting 5x harder than mine with only her signature LC I can even say that boothill is f2p friendly since he doesn't even need a lightcone to nuke enemies one by one But firefly's synergy with Gallagher, one of the best 4stars, and how her best support is literally free, and her blast damage that can kill up to 3 enemies per turn, making a team with her makes the game much easier to clear Low key saved my account.
While true, as a player since launch she's honestly not worth it unless you specifically find her fun. I find myself enjoying using almost every other character much more than her, and performing better with my boothill. She's great at clearing content but very 1 note, whereas I can reach higher peaks with the likes of boothill due to his team's being more flexible.
@@EyesDontCrythats why I went for e2 ff, easier team to build while not having to deal with the jank of boothil. Sure boothil is really cool when he does his big nukes on bosses, but in most of the game’s content it’s overkill and you’d rather get aoe to clean up faster
I mean if you were to take Acheron's damage and divide it by 2 (since there were two units) you would get bigger damage than Feixiao's by a small amount (despite not having lightning weakness) so I feel like Acheron is still better!
Using E1S1 Feixiao on Kafka side and E2S1 Acheron (with higher investment supports), Feixiao was able to 0 cycle where Acheron couldn't get a 3rd ult in time to prevent the phase 2 dice gamba, however Acheron's single target damage was considerably higher, from 180k skill to 780k ult, it feels reasonably balanced to me. Naturally the more backloaded damage from the higher investment team (2x ltd support with eidolons vs 1x + March 7th) will be higher per screenshot. If not for the gamba mechanic I'm pretty sure side 2 would have 0 cycled as well. I would also expect the currently ltd banner char to perform better with an optimal team than a 2.0 DPS, so I'm overall satisfied with the amount of compromise between the two, also considering my Acheron has a better build due to amount of build time (everyone on sig sets basically, no eagle sets on my acct rn) Like others said it would be interesting to run both teams on both sides to give each the weakness dis/advantage, perhaps even running Moze instead of M7 against Aventurine? A single target showdown between Feixiao, Dr Ratio and Boothill could be fun, too (and Yanqing and Seele why not just do a hunt tourney lol)
tbh idc whos better both of em hits very hard both of em helps me clear things but idk if its because I got bored of archeron or not but fei xiao is so damn fun to play
Break teams are inherently better for content than crit teams, so Boothill and Firefly are always bound to be better anyways. Whereas Acheron struggled here (at E2??) because her team was elementally resisted, the Breakers can always ignore such shortcomings (weakness implant and RES pen via Ruan Mei). The *only* case where a break team does poorly is against one of the few bosses that temporarily become immune to toughness reduction, compared to the many cases where a character doesn’t fit one of the 3 out of 7 elements a boss can be weak to. (In all situations where a nonbreak boss appears in MOC, it costs nothing to just use them against the second boss. And Apocalyptic Shadow exists.) Regardless, due to Boothill and Firefly being archetypal 0-cyclers, the more you invest into them the easier it becomes for them to just delete bosses the moment their weaknesses are broken, never giving them a chance to attack. When 0 cycle runs rely on sustainless comps, which itself relies on using Break to prevent damage, obviously the best characters by this metric would be the best breakers.
Besides the Lightning resist, you wasted E2 Acheron by not using Sparkle instead of Pela, and gave an even bigger bonus to Feixiao since she did get external action advance EDIT: Sorry, forgot to say I love your content and keep cooking, I just think this was a bad team lineup for this matchup as well as a bad target
Keep in mind that Feixiao already has her full premium team while Acheron only really has Jiaoqiu. She’s still missing a bis sustain and a replacement for sw/pela
Also keep in mind that Feixiao can run a completely F2P team (bar Robin) for near identical performance to her premium team if you know what you're doing.
This logic also applies to all dps since future supports will always powercreep the current ones., you think this is feixiao best team but she might get better ones in the future too.. The thing with Feixiao vs Acheron team is that her FuA teams all do consistent dmg, even Aventurine does decent dmg cos of Robin +25% FuA CDMG and Topaz +50% FuA, meanwhile Acheron team dps drops off the cliff when she's not doing ult...
LMAAAO what is she missing?? pela/sw are already good enough she can use make use of sparkle at e2 BiS sustain? that gives billion dmg bonuses?💀 sure buddy keep dreaming she already peaked
@@4..x Good enough doesn't mean best in slot lmao. Acheron won't peak until we get a 2nd 5 star limited Nihility that's on JQ's level and a Nihility focused sustain.
acheron not having robin was the biggest difference. should have that + qpq gallagher for the best result even w/o e2 E: could maybe make it more fair by dropping acherons sig if you did this
pretty sure that would make it so that the E2 would take full effect, which I guess is something he was tryna avoid by not playing her with a harmony to begin with, but yes i do agree her best team is QPQ gallagher + Robin + JQ.
Feixiao is pretty much the undisputed best DPS in the game atm, and it's not even that close. In terms of 0 cycle cost, Acheron BARELY edges out Feixiao in the upcoming 2.6 MoC against 5 targets with shared HP. Feixiao is as good or better than every other AoE unit tested there (including the likes of Firefly, Jade, and Rappa). Feixiao has been shown to surpass Acheron in nearly every other scenario. Boothill has also never been shown to surpass Feixiao in literally any scenario whereas Feixiao has cheaper 0 cycles in most fights. There's definitely a strong argument that Feixiao should be the only T0 DPS atm. The situation right now is very reminiscent of Acheron's initial release.
If you only judge based on 0 cycles, sure, but if we were to look at the normal meta with sustains and relatable builds then nah, it's way closer and Acheron's release was pretty mediocre. She wasn't the best at 0 cycling and she's the only T0 dps to never have the fastest cycles in MoC data.
Just 1 thin, I expected to see Acheron 1st side then 2nd side and same for fei. Since puting Blade vs Kafka = 0 cycle. Kafka is weak to 3 of your chars in that run. Or you need to shoecase Acheron when she is in her element, or go to boss where noone has adv and that might be Aventurine boss. Ether way not really useful showcase based on title of video.
Fei can literally 0 cycle choir with himeko and Gallagher,0 cycle aven with 20% Wind res and can also 0 cycle the new 2.6 boss while being single target @shiroAkumaYT so the weakness in this case doesn't matter.If fei was e2 She would've speedrun both Kafka and aven in this moc,and e2 is a luxury for her.
@@set5026And? Choir isn't particulary hard to beat nor is he wind resistant(40%) like kafka. However he is fire and imaginary weak whinch gives here advantage for topaz and march, so that comparison is bullshit
@@set5026 40% dmg reduction and no Robin e1 is kinda huge dif. Also there is no harmony, no rm or sparkle or robin, his relics are out of this world on Acheron, so e1 and e2 are useless. I dont own Jiaoqiu and I dont own Feixiao, so I cant do showcase of e2. But I can say this, Kafka I do 0 cycle with Acheron Pela Sparkle Gepard, and 0/1 is on Aven, it is not consistant. If I were to use e0 s1 Jiaoqiu, its 0 cycle both. At that point we cant showcase dif. To really show whos better you would need to use e0 team. Cos at e2 it is 0 cycle for both. I juat pointed out that he had 3 chars who break shield on Fei team where dmn march is hiting 200k. And element is perfect. So I dont see any dif from Blade and Feixiao in that team. With thos sups Blade does same. My friend used Blade to do 0 cycle with March Robin and Luocha. So eh, not a good video title. He needa test server to do it with premium e0 s1 teams.
Seeing that they perform similar even though Acheron is up against 40% lightning res and Feixiao has E2 Robin is actually pretty cool to see, because lately I've seen those comparisons getting so exaggerated to a point where people are saying that Acheron is mid, can't actually clear content anymore and is not on the same level as Feixiao, which is just not true lmao, but ig this is just the average brain damaged players having that 0-cycle/tier list brainrot as always when a new dps is released But honestly, when people are discussing this, they should consider that they are very different units, Acheron is an AOE unit with debuff focus and Feixiao is a ST unit with FuA focus, for the most part they are not far apart in performance and this is what should matter, people should stop being dumb and just accept that they both are the strongest in their respective ways.
just wanted to point out that camera placement might not hv been the best since seeing acheron and feixiao stacks wouldve been nice but apart from that thanks for the vid!
I don't even have Feixiao's signature light cone, any eidolons, or even her strongest sustain (I don't have Aventurine, so I use Fu Xuan). I'm missing all of that, and yet I effortlessly 0-cycle the Kafka side of MoC 12. Completely effortless. And on the Aventurine side I manage a 1-cycle, though I probably could 0-cycle if I put in the effort. Feixiao is the strongest (for me) by far and it's not even close.
@@MercuryCeres E1S1 Topaz, E1S0 Robin, and E0S1 Fu Xuan. I also managed to get REALLY lucky and pulled Feixiao's light cone right before her banner ended, so I guess part of my original comment is no longer really relevant. Oh, although I was surprised that no matter how hard I try I can't 0-cycle the Aventurine boss with this team. Actually, that's not the part that surprised me. The part that surprised me was that I was able to do it with this team if I replaced Topaz with my E6 Moze. So if you have Moze and Topaz then even if you have an eidolon or two for Topaz Moze is still better if the enemy is lightning weak and not fire weak.
i think thats unfair comparison as this moc favor Feixiao alot even if you swap sides beside the fact when u make acheron faces aventurine then feixiao will destory kafka as she weak to wind and imaginary
As somebody that has neither of them, so I have no horse in this race, Feixiao powercrept Acheron, plain and simple. It does not matter if Feixiao has more dmg per AV because of her team, this game has always been a team game, no character is played alone unless its Blade on meme SU runs, so if Feixiao's best comp can clear faster on an MoC with both wind and lightning res, then yes, she has outclassed Acheron. Yeah, the turbulence kinda favours her, but most runs I've seen dont even need that since the boss is dead before it triggers. That doesn't mean Acheron is bad. She just got outclassed the same way DHIL and Jingliu got by her, but I guess being the Raiden of this game makes people see her META placing with distorted lenses
As somewhat new player feixiao help me alot , and literally carry me for clearing all the simulation universe divergent / gears / swarm Its carry me thru moc 12 , apocalyptic shadow everything . . . Except pure fiction 😂
feixiao def stronger rn, but at worst for acheron we're still talking T0 vs T0.5 who tf cares just get both TBH, or just stick to one and be happy because they're both really fun to use, 1-2 cycles don't make a difference lol and in terms of fun factor, boothill takes the cake personally
I think robin & march was bit op, as march & fei always on element, plus the res pen from robin e/1 is pretty busted, im not sure but i feel like acheron team shoulda used sparkle instead of pella & attk boots on acheron, sparkle & robin both premium supports, maybe im wrong tho, im like feels crafting lol, anyhow i think this run was a tie, Acheron - 1 cycle while 40% lightning resist Fei xiao - 0 cycle, e/2 robin & strong march.
I think versus Kafka is quite literally the one situation where Acheron is awful here. You’d probably be better off comparing both teams with 5 star teams and replace pela or JQ with silver wolf and conversely replace March with topaz. The real question I’m wondering is why are you fully utilizing robin e2 (to be fair, it isn’t by choice) but you aren’t using Acheron’s E2, which you do have? Kafka is weak to Wind, physical, and imaginary, where you have feixiao+march7th hunt+aventurine+ robin (e2) and then you pop on Robin’s e1 which is quite literally just a 24% dmg increase overall for the feixiao side- whereas Kafka has 40% lightning res, and the only pen you’re getting is from Acheron’s ult base kit. Which makes her run at 80% efficiency. Because of the skewed pen stats in calculations once you go under 100%, you’re basically running Acheron at 60% dmg output vs Kafka 💀
even 2 years later after insane powercreeps the diehard acheron fandom will still be arguing her relevance, yall pls dont waste ur time, acheron doesnt do half as much damage as feixiao be it at C0 or C6
If you talk per single target ofc Fei Xiao better be doing more damage. However, not only does Acheron hit everything at once with her ultimate, but currently she is the only DpS in the whole game where using a harmony character is an after thought. Yes people can do it, but it is not necessary. One more thing...Acheron is the only limited DpS that has access to all type res pen at E0. Any other dps that has that is locked behind E6.
@@TOTGodofWar you can list 1000 different positives about Acheron but it doesn't change her clear times or strength level, which are in fact behind Fei. Only the upcoming shared-hp 5 enemies is where Acheron currently has a small edge over Fei in MoC. Ones still holding on and defending her have AT LEAST S1, if not a few eidolons too, there has always been a discrepancy between her reputation and performance tbh, especially E0S0.
feixiao does better in the MoC that's meant for her to excel in, insane revelation... pleasantly surprised Acheron still got the 1-cycle though but lets be real feixiao is gonna get powercrept in two years as well LMAO
The problem is that when it comes to 36* MoC, she is good, but when it comes to an actual challenge like 0 cycling content, she is literally one of the worst dps units one can have.
To each their own, i find her a reliable dps in every mode and can brute force almost every content in the game. Sure it may be boring for min maxers but frankly i’m not that kind of player.
She's bad at 0 cycling and one of the best dps for normal play. 0 cycle players constantly meme on her because of that, but basically no one is going to even attempt to 0 cycle much less succeed at it, so her being bad at it is pretty irrelevant to everyone outside of a handful of players.
@@sct77 0 cycle math is crazy, players will sensationalize their prep for youtube a lot but I promise you 0 cycling is as easy as having good relics and dropping the support, its so insanely easy if you have a good account
pretty sure Aven with S1 is your man, won't get much better than debuff on a FuA sustain, no chance of a JQ sustain debuff-on-enemy-turn kind of deal, that's way too niche for sustains who already are some of the lower value units once you have 2 limited ones.
Ngl this is a really bad play on Acheron's side I basically did the same clear time with my e0s0 acheron lmao but I was using BS Robin instead of pela jq
trueeee lets upload a run where the main dps gets cc'd and the other run is perfect. Also lets show it on a boss which is lighting resistant goofy aah vid
@@hellur3474true and also e1 Robin is a far stronger eidolon than e2 acheron. I feel like doing this test on the aventurine side would have given clearer results.
The strongest character is that one traffic light robot in Belobog
Funny enough that immunity shield it has woulf be nasty on a preservation unit.
@@kemystery8896New physical preservation just dropped
The true emanator of preservation
Belebog traffic light: stand proud both of you, both of you are strong.
Funnily enough, DOT eats them since it ignores shield.
Acheron feels so incomplete without her LC istg. i have her E0S0 and sure, i clear MOC and PF fine with her but i can just feel that if i get her LC, it's gonna be much better playing her as i am now. that extra stack means a lot.
trueee. Although jiaoqiu does increase the preference of e2 over s1 because of his stack gen compared to the other nihilities.
in the f2p team core though my s1 is my saviour
so true, everyone saying she is the best but they have e2 and light cone, she loses soooo much without them
I with feixiao team and same party like the video all E0S0, i got 1 cycle same result like in the video on acheron. So yeah acheron no f2p friendly '-'
i dont have her lc since i lost the 75/25 and dude ur so right but thankfully jq unbricked my acheron i will still be going for her lc on the rerun for the extra damage/stack
She literally doesn't lose that much value without E2 or Lightcone. Her base kit is so damn complete. The damage increase with the burst of Crimson knot stacks is crazy, she has built-in All Type Res Pen, Weakness Ignore and is AoE.
The only good thing about signature lightcone is the free crit dmg and one extra stack. E0 Jiaoqiu with E0 Acheron is a free stack generator.
@@unaicasal3061
Using Acheron against a 40% res boss and feixiao against a 20% res boss with her also having robin e2 is a bit unfair. You are comparing Acheron at basically half damage to Feixiao at 104% damage.
E2 robin but s1 jiao and e6 pela. The cost is comparable. Since literally everyone has free e6 march and Robin e1 is what makes an actual difference in the run, e2 does practically nothing here.
@@o0ugi860 cost is comparable but it isn’t fair, Robin’s e1 and 2 are unconditional buffs you can’t control, but Acheron’s e2 just allows you to kick out a nihility. The one stack of crimson knots that Acheron gains from her e2 requires her to take 9 personal turns for it to even benefit her enough for an extra ult- so you can’t argue that either.
It would have likely been a better comparison if you ended up replacing Pela here with Bronya e0/e1 (since standard characters are considered 0 cost up to e1s1
@@o0ugi860 e6 pela doesnt do anything? plus hm7 and robin contributes to team damage a lot more than jia and pela. i think he shouldve used e2 acheron and put RM there to negate the lightning res.
Kind of unfair to use Acheron on a boss who has crazy resistance to her element and no one in her party except Aven can lower the toughness bar, and then use Robin + March which are crazy sub dps characters for Fei's side and Kafka being weak to all their elements.
And then not even take advantage of her e2 although you did use e2 robin
What if he replaced pela with the e2 robin?
@zeuscliff9676 no then the team becomes too high cost
@@Why_So_Meanthen he could add Topass to the team to balance it out but that being said even then it would Favor Acheron more because with JQ Robin is better then Sparkle with her.
Acheron ult has res pen +Jiaoqio applies vulnerability ( acts similarly with res pen so you compensate the resistance with the vulnerability ) meanwhile fei xiao has no vulnerability nor res pen just pure Brute force
we really can't exactly compare 2 units in HSR since content catering is so volatile, against this MoC and the next one, Feixiao is better because of weaknesses and MoC buffs, but we all know all it takes to make Acheron better is the enemy having a shared hp trait
Yeah that’s why I tosses up a lot of caveats
Lol, against the new 5 boss with shared hp, feixiao has lower cost when it comes to 0 cycling even though shes hunt 😂
@@wyattskyy shared HP? Get ready for the choir again in 2 weeks ! Trollface
@@bewitted1169 I hope you realized 0 cycling isn't really a thing to the majority of players
@@bewitted1169feixiao’s lowest cost is 5 vs the 5 million hp boss, Acheron’s lowest cost vs the 5 million I’ve seen is 3. Is there a feixiao 2 cost 0 cycle on the TV out there? Please let me know
Bro got the xqc diesease, calling horses dogs and wolves pigs...
We all know that Arlan is so strong that content creators gaslights viewers in believing he is weak just to have his power for themselves
In my opinion it more depend on the current moc and the buffs like the last one favored firefly and this favors feixiao
yes exactly i dont think theres one best dps it all depends on the content and what it favors that patch
i wonder how acheron and feixiao fare against each other 2nd half to see how they compare when the element advantage is reversed. i think which is better depends on how u look at it. acheron is a bit behind feixiao in memory of chaos and apocalyptic shadow (if they're both on-element and E0S1 they can reliably 1 cycle at most in moc in my experience), but acheron is comfortably better in pure fiction so i would argue she has more consistency in effectiveness
i've tried acheron against aventurine- it's kinda slow, he's much more built for single-target characters like Feixiao or Boothill
@@tactaillike aventurine is interesting because in order to win his dice rolls u want aoe but when it comes to attacking him specifically, single-target is better. i think that's part of the reason why some people struggle with him is because in order to use a rushdown character u kind of want cc immunity from ur sustain because of how likely you are to lose dice rolls in the 2nd phase
In a world of Fei and Acheron, pick daddy Booty without even a proper support aside from Ruan
Cool video. I don’t really have a dog in this race as I own and love both characters but this is not really a fair comparison. I know you have to do it with what content we have access to. That being said the fact that acherons team only had herself and Adventurine working on toughness bars and Fei’s team was almost perfectly matched up to rip toughness bars is a massive advantage without getting into resistances or how busted Robins eidolons are and March 7th is an insane sub DPS but it’s all good Fei is a absolute monster and having a ton of fun with her
I can't believe Robin is the strongest dps, who would have thought?
So... I have both E2S1. As a per se char, I really think Acheron is stronger (strong Single target and insane AOE), but Fei has the better team / synergy , Robin, Aventurine and then the 4th slot being flexible (Topaz, Jade, Moze, March or even another Support).
So in future I think we will see fluctuations in those teams dominance, depending on what the new chars will bring to those two
Isn't trend kinda pointless on aventurine if you're already using jiaoqiu, cuz you can't get more than one stack per enemy turn(correct me if I'm wrong)
Technically you can get more stacks with any bosses with double actions since jiaoqiu only triggers once, but yes 99% of the time it's redundant outside of pf (since you can waste all 6 of jiaoqius ult apps quite quick in some pfs)
I was told it's once per action, not once per turn, but not sure.
it's not useless. Jiao gives a stack per enemy turn, trend can give a stack per enemy attack. So, if an enemy takes a turn and attacks twice, first you will get a stack from Jiao then you will get a stack from trend on the second attack. Same goes for any out of turn attacks from the enemies
Its not like there are better options anyways
@orion615 you could just use a lc that focuses more on his defensive capabilities or his damage, that'd be better than wasted stacks no?
Kinda stings to say as an acheron main but it's fei, it's her. The experience I have had having fei Robin and aven even with just March is beyond amazing the whole team feels like a single unit, they synergise so well with each other at the same time being strong individual units it's crazy.
I do have Robin e1 but fei is E0S0 and i just got a 210 av clear on aven in apocalyptic shadow with fei herta aven Robin. A run with a sustain! It's honestly disgustingly good.
To add my acheron team is usually Gallagher acheron E0s1and jiaoqiu E0S1 with pela. It's amazing BUT as i said above besides jq, the team doesn't feel as cohesive as the fei one.
Fei's synergy is a whole archetype (FuA) while Acheron has a niche, which is wanting debuffs, not what I would call an archetype, that's why Fei has a lot more options than Acheron, and probably will always do.
Before JQ people kept saying wait for the 5 star debuffer, then he arrived and did help Acheron, but then new kid on the street Fei comes in and now people are saying wait for the debuff sustain (there currently are no leaks of such a character either).
Cuz fei already had bis team for her with 3 different options for second hunt, e4 bronya, what some f2p have, when acheron have only 1 jiaoqiu, she doesn't have sustain, and even at e0 it's better to use sparkle, even robin gives her way more than pela, personally tested, it was 2 cycles less with robin than with pela,like both equally so no bias, acheron just lack that perfect synergy chars what fei already have
@@greenvegaand that's not factoring in Kafka has 40% electric res.
@@greenvega that's what I am saying, having such a complete team at release makes fei feel really good to play.
I had to cope with gui and pela until i got Robin and even then it took me a while to get to know the Robin qpq Gallagher strat, jq was a huge upgrade but the team still is missing the completeness that I get from fei fua. Hopefully we get a better buffer/debuffer and a sustain too. I am pinning my hopes on a dot sustain.
I think imo firefly is the best f2p dps
It's low-key hard to build acheron as an f2p, and the last time I said that I got trashed for my build, and I'm not kidding
My acheron only does 170k per ult which isnt much compared to P2w acherons hitting 5x harder than mine with only her signature LC
I can even say that boothill is f2p friendly since he doesn't even need a lightcone to nuke enemies one by one
But firefly's synergy with Gallagher, one of the best 4stars, and how her best support is literally free, and her blast damage that can kill up to 3 enemies per turn, making a team with her makes the game much easier to clear
Low key saved my account.
True. I finished FF build in less than a week. And til now i havent reached the "built" threshold for acheron lmao
While true, as a player since launch she's honestly not worth it unless you specifically find her fun.
I find myself enjoying using almost every other character much more than her, and performing better with my boothill.
She's great at clearing content but very 1 note, whereas I can reach higher peaks with the likes of boothill due to his team's being more flexible.
Honestly I agree. Firefly made me get full stars on MOC for the first time.
@@EyesDontCrythats why I went for e2 ff, easier team to build while not having to deal with the jank of boothil. Sure boothil is really cool when he does his big nukes on bosses, but in most of the game’s content it’s overkill and you’d rather get aoe to clean up faster
agree, firefly is way stronger than my acheron and is generally an free MOC and AS
the issue is robin e2 and the fact we dont have a neutral enemy
Wake up, babe. New WyattSky video just dropped
Firefly gameplay💤
Acheron gameplay💤
Feixiao gameplay💤💨
Boothillicious gameplay🗣️💯🔥
id say both boothill and fua gameplay in general are dopamine boosters
bootycheeks gameplay
@@owowonn Amen brother
@@owowonn tbh boothils animations are really makes things feel very hard you can literally feel him nukeing the enemy
@@owowonnalso really like dots. where is the dot buffer hoyo.
at E0S0? Acheron just isn't it, while firefly and feixiao are close to each other
in the boothill wavelength 🏜💥🧘🏼♀️
the only character that’s gotten me through divergent universe v8 and with just f2p hmc gallagher and E0 bronya he’s insane
Not a fan of comparisons using limited eidolons tbh. E0S1 should be the standard for any comparison since eidolons vary so unequally per character
Eidolon toggle!!!
@@wyattskyyactually praying for an eidolon toggle
I mean if you were to take Acheron's damage and divide it by 2 (since there were two units) you would get bigger damage than Feixiao's by a small amount (despite not having lightning weakness) so I feel like Acheron is still better!
Using E1S1 Feixiao on Kafka side and E2S1 Acheron (with higher investment supports), Feixiao was able to 0 cycle where Acheron couldn't get a 3rd ult in time to prevent the phase 2 dice gamba, however Acheron's single target damage was considerably higher, from 180k skill to 780k ult, it feels reasonably balanced to me. Naturally the more backloaded damage from the higher investment team (2x ltd support with eidolons vs 1x + March 7th) will be higher per screenshot. If not for the gamba mechanic I'm pretty sure side 2 would have 0 cycled as well. I would also expect the currently ltd banner char to perform better with an optimal team than a 2.0 DPS, so I'm overall satisfied with the amount of compromise between the two, also considering my Acheron has a better build due to amount of build time (everyone on sig sets basically, no eagle sets on my acct rn)
Like others said it would be interesting to run both teams on both sides to give each the weakness dis/advantage, perhaps even running Moze instead of M7 against Aventurine? A single target showdown between Feixiao, Dr Ratio and Boothill could be fun, too (and Yanqing and Seele why not just do a hunt tourney lol)
I hope you do more trials to other bosses too! Like someone with wind res and etc
not really into teams that rely on a single character to deal damage, so Feixiao or FuA teams in general are my favorite
Feixiao is truly crazy but she got much more improvement from robins eidolons but still performs amazing great video buddy 🧡
tbh idc whos better both of em hits very hard both of em helps me clear things but idk if its because I got bored of archeron or not but fei xiao is so damn fun to play
Horse -> dog
Wolf -> pig
I think fei is better e0s0 but at e2s1 acheron pulls out ahead. Having a harmony makes her dps skyrocket
Break teams are inherently better for content than crit teams, so Boothill and Firefly are always bound to be better anyways. Whereas Acheron struggled here (at E2??) because her team was elementally resisted, the Breakers can always ignore such shortcomings (weakness implant and RES pen via Ruan Mei).
The *only* case where a break team does poorly is against one of the few bosses that temporarily become immune to toughness reduction, compared to the many cases where a character doesn’t fit one of the 3 out of 7 elements a boss can be weak to. (In all situations where a nonbreak boss appears in MOC, it costs nothing to just use them against the second boss. And Apocalyptic Shadow exists.) Regardless, due to Boothill and Firefly being archetypal 0-cyclers, the more you invest into them the easier it becomes for them to just delete bosses the moment their weaknesses are broken, never giving them a chance to attack. When 0 cycle runs rely on sustainless comps, which itself relies on using Break to prevent damage, obviously the best characters by this metric would be the best breakers.
Besides the Lightning resist, you wasted E2 Acheron by not using Sparkle instead of Pela, and gave an even bigger bonus to Feixiao since she did get external action advance EDIT: Sorry, forgot to say I love your content and keep cooking, I just think this was a bad team lineup for this matchup as well as a bad target
Keep in mind that Feixiao already has her full premium team while Acheron only really has Jiaoqiu. She’s still missing a bis sustain and a replacement for sw/pela
Also keep in mind that Feixiao can run a completely F2P team (bar Robin) for near identical performance to her premium team if you know what you're doing.
This logic also applies to all dps since future supports will always powercreep the current ones., you think this is feixiao best team but she might get better ones in the future too.. The thing with Feixiao vs Acheron team is that her FuA teams all do consistent dmg, even Aventurine does decent dmg cos of Robin +25% FuA CDMG and Topaz +50% FuA, meanwhile Acheron team dps drops off the cliff when she's not doing ult...
LMAAAO what is she missing?? pela/sw are already good enough she can use make use of sparkle at e2
BiS sustain? that gives billion dmg bonuses?💀 sure buddy keep dreaming she already peaked
she's missing no one. Her best supports are robin and jiaoqiu and her best sustain is aventurine at S1.
@@4..x Good enough doesn't mean best in slot lmao. Acheron won't peak until we get a 2nd 5 star limited Nihility that's on JQ's level and a Nihility focused sustain.
I just started and got both Feixiao and robin. Gonna get Acheron or Firefly to build the 2nd team. Hopefully Acheron will ger the rerun earlier.
acheron not having robin was the biggest difference. should have that + qpq gallagher for the best result even w/o e2 E: could maybe make it more fair by dropping acherons sig if you did this
How much speed should Gallagher have
@@Saberdud just 134 - pref higher than acheron especially with this moc buff. acheron 134+ as well
pretty sure that would make it so that the E2 would take full effect, which I guess is something he was tryna avoid by not playing her with a harmony to begin with, but yes i do agree her best team is QPQ gallagher + Robin + JQ.
@@Whitebook2111 Then why put E2 Robin in Fei's side ?
I think we need to try them in different scenarios
Feixiao is pretty much the undisputed best DPS in the game atm, and it's not even that close.
In terms of 0 cycle cost, Acheron BARELY edges out Feixiao in the upcoming 2.6 MoC against 5 targets with shared HP. Feixiao is as good or better than every other AoE unit tested there (including the likes of Firefly, Jade, and Rappa). Feixiao has been shown to surpass Acheron in nearly every other scenario.
Boothill has also never been shown to surpass Feixiao in literally any scenario whereas Feixiao has cheaper 0 cycles in most fights.
There's definitely a strong argument that Feixiao should be the only T0 DPS atm. The situation right now is very reminiscent of Acheron's initial release.
Boothill is better
Boothill is better against aventurine
@@АрсенСаркисян-й9у I don't think he has lower cost 0 cycles against Aventurine so no, he's not (could be wrong though)
@@Lumiere192 no one who's ever said this has ever been able to back it up
If you only judge based on 0 cycles, sure, but if we were to look at the normal meta with sustains and relatable builds then nah, it's way closer and Acheron's release was pretty mediocre. She wasn't the best at 0 cycling and she's the only T0 dps to never have the fastest cycles in MoC data.
Pitch-Dark Hook the Great, obviously
Just 1 thin, I expected to see Acheron 1st side then 2nd side and same for fei. Since puting Blade vs Kafka = 0 cycle. Kafka is weak to 3 of your chars in that run. Or you need to shoecase Acheron when she is in her element, or go to boss where noone has adv and that might be Aventurine boss. Ether way not really useful showcase based on title of video.
Fei can literally 0 cycle choir with himeko and Gallagher,0 cycle aven with 20% Wind res and can also 0 cycle the new 2.6 boss while being single target @shiroAkumaYT so the weakness in this case doesn't matter.If fei was e2 She would've speedrun both Kafka and aven in this moc,and e2 is a luxury for her.
@@set5026And? Choir isn't particulary hard to beat nor is he wind resistant(40%) like kafka. However he is fire and imaginary weak whinch gives here advantage for topaz and march, so that comparison is bullshit
@@set5026 robin e2 in feixiao team.
@@set5026 40% dmg reduction and no Robin e1 is kinda huge dif. Also there is no harmony, no rm or sparkle or robin, his relics are out of this world on Acheron, so e1 and e2 are useless.
I dont own Jiaoqiu and I dont own Feixiao, so I cant do showcase of e2. But I can say this, Kafka I do 0 cycle with Acheron Pela Sparkle Gepard, and 0/1 is on Aven, it is not consistant. If I were to use e0 s1 Jiaoqiu, its 0 cycle both. At that point we cant showcase dif.
To really show whos better you would need to use e0 team. Cos at e2 it is 0 cycle for both.
I juat pointed out that he had 3 chars who break shield on Fei team where dmn march is hiting 200k. And element is perfect. So I dont see any dif from Blade and Feixiao in that team. With thos sups Blade does same. My friend used Blade to do 0 cycle with March Robin and Luocha. So eh, not a good video title. He needa test server to do it with premium e0 s1 teams.
Seeing that they perform similar even though Acheron is up against 40% lightning res and Feixiao has E2 Robin is actually pretty cool to see, because lately I've seen those comparisons getting so exaggerated to a point where people are saying that Acheron is mid, can't actually clear content anymore and is not on the same level as Feixiao, which is just not true lmao, but ig this is just the average brain damaged players having that 0-cycle/tier list brainrot as always when a new dps is released
But honestly, when people are discussing this, they should consider that they are very different units, Acheron is an AOE unit with debuff focus and Feixiao is a ST unit with FuA focus, for the most part they are not far apart in performance and this is what should matter, people should stop being dumb and just accept that they both are the strongest in their respective ways.
just wanted to point out that camera placement might not hv been the best since seeing acheron and feixiao stacks wouldve been nice but apart from that thanks for the vid!
At this point just do a lower floor thats weak to wind and lightning and see who cleared more comfortably
"That's the downside of resistance" man that's the downside of your terrible relics I think
You having to nerf Acheron says it all . Both are amazing but Acheron is GOATED status
Agreed + dudes using e2 robin.
This was completely biased against acheron.
Wtf compared with 40 lightning resist, ain't no way
I don't even have Feixiao's signature light cone, any eidolons, or even her strongest sustain (I don't have Aventurine, so I use Fu Xuan). I'm missing all of that, and yet I effortlessly 0-cycle the Kafka side of MoC 12. Completely effortless. And on the Aventurine side I manage a 1-cycle, though I probably could 0-cycle if I put in the effort.
Feixiao is the strongest (for me) by far and it's not even close.
it's almost as if the new moc is designed for the new characters or something
@@thiccychiccy1157 🤣
What team are you using
@@MercuryCeres E1S1 Topaz, E1S0 Robin, and E0S1 Fu Xuan. I also managed to get REALLY lucky and pulled Feixiao's light cone right before her banner ended, so I guess part of my original comment is no longer really relevant.
Oh, although I was surprised that no matter how hard I try I can't 0-cycle the Aventurine boss with this team. Actually, that's not the part that surprised me. The part that surprised me was that I was able to do it with this team if I replaced Topaz with my E6 Moze. So if you have Moze and Topaz then even if you have an eidolon or two for Topaz Moze is still better if the enemy is lightning weak and not fire weak.
i think thats unfair comparison as this moc favor Feixiao alot even if you swap sides beside the fact when u make acheron faces aventurine then feixiao will destory kafka as she weak to wind and imaginary
Once i get Feixiao ima just use both lol
As somebody that has neither of them, so I have no horse in this race, Feixiao powercrept Acheron, plain and simple. It does not matter if Feixiao has more dmg per AV because of her team, this game has always been a team game, no character is played alone unless its Blade on meme SU runs, so if Feixiao's best comp can clear faster on an MoC with both wind and lightning res, then yes, she has outclassed Acheron. Yeah, the turbulence kinda favours her, but most runs I've seen dont even need that since the boss is dead before it triggers. That doesn't mean Acheron is bad. She just got outclassed the same way DHIL and Jingliu got by her, but I guess being the Raiden of this game makes people see her META placing with distorted lenses
At E0S0 it's Boothill. Acheron isn't that good without her sig. E2S1, I'd say it's between Boothill, Acheron and Feixiao, depending on the enemy.
Both mogged by Blade
As somewhat new player feixiao help me alot , and literally carry me for clearing all the simulation universe divergent / gears / swarm
Its carry me thru moc 12 , apocalyptic shadow everything . . . Except pure fiction 😂
And she is level 70 😂
gonna be the bias acheron main here. kafka has 40% lightning resist
Yunli and Boothill >>>
Great vid but next time cam on bottom right would be nicer imo
Kafka 40% res electro.
11:40
feixiao def stronger rn, but at worst for acheron we're still talking T0 vs T0.5 who tf cares
just get both TBH, or just stick to one and be happy because they're both really fun to use, 1-2 cycles don't make a difference lol
and in terms of fun factor, boothill takes the cake personally
should compare in apoc with best in slot team it will give precise points just use them on the same half.
Sam is the best if u put their E6 against Acheron/Feixiao e0 tbh
Game audio was kinda weird in this one
i’ll give props to acheron for almost 0 cycling a resistant boss but my general will always have my heart
These two need to brace themselves for gravitational disintegration.
I think robin & march was bit op, as march & fei always on element, plus the res pen from robin e/1 is pretty busted, im not sure but i feel like acheron team shoulda used sparkle instead of pella & attk boots on acheron, sparkle & robin both premium supports, maybe im wrong tho, im like feels crafting lol, anyhow i think this run was a tie,
Acheron - 1 cycle while 40% lightning resist
Fei xiao - 0 cycle, e/2 robin & strong march.
Fexiao how better relics and e2 Robin, nuff said 😂🤣
Im in a bit of a debate about rather to get fei or acheron lc maybe eve ff
Acheron end of story goodbye
I think versus Kafka is quite literally the one situation where Acheron is awful here. You’d probably be better off comparing both teams with 5 star teams and replace pela or JQ with silver wolf and conversely replace March with topaz.
The real question I’m wondering is why are you fully utilizing robin e2 (to be fair, it isn’t by choice) but you aren’t using Acheron’s E2, which you do have?
Kafka is weak to Wind, physical, and imaginary, where you have feixiao+march7th hunt+aventurine+ robin (e2) and then you pop on Robin’s e1 which is quite literally just a 24% dmg increase overall for the feixiao side- whereas Kafka has 40% lightning res, and the only pen you’re getting is from Acheron’s ult base kit. Which makes her run at 80% efficiency. Because of the skewed pen stats in calculations once you go under 100%, you’re basically running Acheron at 60% dmg output vs Kafka 💀
even 2 years later after insane powercreeps the diehard acheron fandom will still be arguing her relevance, yall pls dont waste ur time, acheron doesnt do half as much damage as feixiao be it at C0 or C6
If you talk per single target ofc Fei Xiao better be doing more damage. However, not only does Acheron hit everything at once with her ultimate, but currently she is the only DpS in the whole game where using a harmony character is an after thought. Yes people can do it, but it is not necessary.
One more thing...Acheron is the only limited DpS that has access to all type res pen at E0. Any other dps that has that is locked behind E6.
@@TOTGodofWar you can list 1000 different positives about Acheron but it doesn't change her clear times or strength level, which are in fact behind Fei. Only the upcoming shared-hp 5 enemies is where Acheron currently has a small edge over Fei in MoC.
Ones still holding on and defending her have AT LEAST S1, if not a few eidolons too, there has always been a discrepancy between her reputation and performance tbh, especially E0S0.
feixiao does better in the MoC that's meant for her to excel in, insane revelation... pleasantly surprised Acheron still got the 1-cycle though
but lets be real feixiao is gonna get powercrept in two years as well LMAO
feixiao and robin are currently the only t0 units imo
Is acheron better with sw or pela?
3:43 come again? 💀
Be nice and do another vid of this matchup vs choir boss ty
true
yeah bro feisxio e0 does alot more than e2 acheron
Genuinely oblivious to the FF controversy, but i use her all the time. What's the deal?
She's considered weak by stronger accounts because her ceiling is very low despite her floor being very high
The problem is that when it comes to 36* MoC, she is good, but when it comes to an actual challenge like 0 cycling content, she is literally one of the worst dps units one can have.
To each their own, i find her a reliable dps in every mode and can brute force almost every content in the game. Sure it may be boring for min maxers but frankly i’m not that kind of player.
She's bad at 0 cycling and one of the best dps for normal play. 0 cycle players constantly meme on her because of that, but basically no one is going to even attempt to 0 cycle much less succeed at it, so her being bad at it is pretty irrelevant to everyone outside of a handful of players.
@@sct77 0 cycle math is crazy, players will sensationalize their prep for youtube a lot but I promise you 0 cycling is as easy as having good relics and dropping the support, its so insanely easy if you have a good account
could have done teams jq, robin, adventurine for both :l
Acheron still doesnt have her best team. She can get a sustain that applies a lot of debuffs.
like preservation trailblazer
@@imrane161 better than him. He doesnt sustain well and the trend LC is antisynergistic with jiaoqiu.
And gepard and march are better than him imo
e2s1 aventurine kek
pretty sure Aven with S1 is your man, won't get much better than debuff on a FuA sustain, no chance of a JQ sustain debuff-on-enemy-turn kind of deal, that's way too niche for sustains who already are some of the lower value units once you have 2 limited ones.
QQ, take it or leave it.
FireFly
carried by robin
-an acheron main probably
Ngl this is a really bad play on Acheron's side
I basically did the same clear time with my e0s0 acheron lmao but I was using BS Robin instead of pela jq
Yeah Robin instead of pela and it’s an easy 0 cycle
Wait why didn't you switch sides :D
trueeee
lets upload a run where the main dps gets cc'd and the other run is perfect.
Also lets show it on a boss which is lighting resistant
goofy aah vid
I need acheron
Could've used SW on Acheron side ngl
Best dps is probably robin, lets be honest
Wyatt Firefly antiglaze has to be studied
I guess march is the best dps
robin is the absolute strongest
On stairrailstation global warp stats. Acheron got pulled 523k times and Feixiao 105k times. I’m sorry but I favour popularity > strength.
I try Feixiao team and same party like the video, all E0S0, and i got 1 cycle same result like in the video on acheron. So Feixiao much better 😊
The real answer is Robin
Neither. Kafka always.
I don’t wanna be that guy but to make it fair feixiao should have been E2 as well😅
Nevermind I forgot Kafka has electro res
acheron e2 doesn’t do much without a harmony
@@hellur3474true and also e1 Robin is a far stronger eidolon than e2 acheron. I feel like doing this test on the aventurine side would have given clearer results.
But she's with e2 robin
Firefly is the strongest😳😳🥰🥰
Our FF can't catch a BREAK from the Boothill mains , like did she eat your dog or something? 🥲