Why Perspective Beefs with Japan
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- In today's video I take down an entire country.
Patreon: www.patreon.co...
You can follow me on Twitter for show updates:
/ perspectiveend
Discord:
/ discord
The Fraternacons Solo Channel:
/ @fraternacons7969
The Channel Reddit:
/ perspectiveend
Music: Zaza - Be Together
My big problem with Japanese Transformers is that they almost always make the Decepticons bumbling morons. Making an objectively overpowered character is fine if they’re expecting to fight guys in their weight class. Sticking Superman in the ring with a joke villain isn’t cool, it makes him look like a bully for harassing someone so far below them they may as well be a non-combatant.
I mean to an extent it was the same in the US but only to an extent. You are left wondering how they could win ever in Japan.
Well my problem with Japanese transformers They always just RePaint a character and call it a super mode It always bugs me
In terms of why they aren't fighting over Energon it's because... They've never actually been fighting over Energon. In G1 the war began because the Decepticons were war robots who were built to fight wars but had no wars to fight, so they took their agression out on the Autobots who were all just civilians. This war raged on for so long that Cybertron ran out of energy and both sides had to scramble to get more of it, eventually leaving the Autobots to flee Cybertron, to which the Decepticons followed because they weren't done murdering yet. Energon was a factor of the G1 war, but it wasn't the purpose behind it. Hell, Energon wasn't even their main source of power, it was just a condensed and liquid form of electricity.
Then in Beast Wars the fight was over the future because the Predacons wanted to kill Optimus Prime to change the timeline and leave them in charge, and there just so happened to be "natural" deposits of Energon on Earth which then frankly never really got involved in the plot except for the background radiation.
Then in Armada the fight was over weather little people should be slaves.
Oh ok, the series called "Energon" has them fighting for Energon but then again in that timeline the fight was originally over slaving small transformers, and Energon was pretty much just something they could weaponize to give them the edge over the other faction.
Cybertron is the third installment of the war for Minicons but doesn't actually take place in that universe so we have no idea what they were fighting about. Energon is never mentioned.
IDW1 was also over weather or not people should be slaves, but this time it was the Decepticons so there's no weird racist allegory there, only Galvtrons brother being forcefully turned into a woman, which is not a thing that exists for their species, but actually also is a thing that exists for them but nobody ever knew they existed, and driven insane by the process.
Animated was the Decepticons starting up the previous war again and we are shown clips of G1 so I pretty much we just go with that context of the Decepticons just being murder robots with nothing to murder.
Alligned went back to Decepticon slaves, but for a time they almost had an interesting Energon mechanic. Blue was normal, Purple raised and controlled the dead, Green made you Captain America, and Red activated the Sandevistan. And then nothing ever followed it up.
The only time we see Energon in something since RiD '15 is in Cyberverse where it's basically a legal steroid you get from touching sports equipment. Otherwise yeah the war is still over political inequality.
And then I guess Earthspark is doing the Animated thing of giving us the context of the G1 war but not actually being connected to that storyline. But this time Megatron breaks his built in code and aims his agression towards other Decepticons.
bro rit a entity book in a perspectiveend comment
You might be right. And the rest of the transformers continuity is just defending earth. But even still it doesn't change the point of the video
Forgot to mention that in cyberverse it's also used for drinking like juice or beer.
The way the war starts is sure a power grab by the Decepticons, but that came WAY later with War Dawn, and the war devolved into a Fight over fuel.
No the fight in Beast Wars was over Energon, and then when that was taken out of reach by most of it being destroyed by the Vok Weapon, Megatron Fell back on changing the future, because he was adaptable.
Also Energon is like a Super Fuel in that.
Again the way the War starts is inconsequential, what the war is fought over for the majority of the duration is what's important.
Also basically everything that comes out after Beast Wars starts getting heavily influenced by Japanese Transformers because it had enough time to Migrate over to the US by that point, and there was a period of like 7 years where hasbro was just importing Japanese Transfomers as the main bulk of the media we got.
We have no idea what they were fighting about in Cybertron? Obviously it’s because OUR WORLDS ARE IN DANGER
(Memes aside, Optimus’s narration at the beginning of the opening theme literally explains the premise of the show, only without explaining that the Autobots also need the Cyber Planet Keys to stop the super black hole consuming the universe)
Transformers in the west and in Japan are essentially two separate franchises which branched off during G1 and never looked back. They overlapped a bit over the years, but the Western Transformers and Japanese Transformers may as well be considered separate franchises with G1 S1-3 being the root that ties them. Whether or not they "get" the Transformers isn't really the issue, because it existed as another seasonal mecha anime to them from the start and nothing else. It did not get the same treatment every dubbed American cartoon got over there, and Takara's marketing team tapped into the audience buying Popy's Chogokins.
Exactly! That's my point, to them it's just a Mecha Anime, and they are a completely different feeling franchise. This is why "I" don't like their stuff, it's not a reason it's bad or anything. It's just not what I'm here for.
@PerspectiveEnd A lot of Transformers otaku over there feel the same, especially with their localizations of the Beast Wars and newer shows like Prime.
Since you bought up that Japanese Transformers are super-robots, it makes me wonder what the Japanese Transformers could've been if it took the "Real Robot" route G1 did, like Gundam or other Mecha anime that involves military conflicts.
Transformers are not Real Robots, they’re just low-level Super Robots
When your robots can shoot lightning out of their hands or lasers out of their eyes without visible weapons systems, or fly without any visible propulsion system, it’s a Super Robot. When your robots can become ghosts and possess other robots, it’s a Super Robot.
About the only Transformers series that could be considered Real Robots are the live-action movies.
Have you ever heard of Brave Saga?
I always saw Transformers as a mix of super robot and real robot. They're super robots because they're living, sentient aliens that can transform into vehicles and machines. They're real robot because of their warfare, tactics, and they can easily die.
@@pantsmaniac I think Prime would be the most real robot the tra sformers has been, given they bring up how cybertronian vital organs cannot simply be engineered
Ex:
Bee's voice box took purified cybermatter (probably equivalent to the fountain of youth) to heal
"You're a motorcycle, Arcee, can't you build an engine?"
"You're a human, Jack, can't you build me a small intestine?"
Magnus' crushed hand has to be replaced with a crude pincer claw as Ratchet lacks more appropriate materials
I'd have been way more interested in a Real Robot Transformers series than a Super Robot one.
Some of the Japanese original character designs actually end up being really cool when you take into account the idea that Cybertronians INTENTIONALLY make themselves ornate.
The thing that pissed me off the most is when they turn cybertronians into just mindless mechas controlled by random humans (like headmasters, ginrai etc) like, why would a human be fighting this war that isn't even from it's species?
Hate that yeah. They aren't Transformers any more at that point. It's just Power Rangers.
Um, wouldn’t humans want to fight to protect their planet and species from being wiped out by the Decepticons? And given a group called the Decepticons, naturally they should be able to pull some deception over some humans to get them to work with them, at least for sometime. To be fair, maybe most of the cast of Masterforce shouldn’t have been humans who turn into Transformers.
@@tristankawatsuma8962 yes, they should protect their planet, that's alright, but what I take issue with is when they start replacing the transformers in the war or using them as mere mechas
Honestly, at least Starsaber had the decency to keep his decorative stuff with a practical purpose behind it as well, if not for one mode, than another.
This video is perfect, best of yours in my opinion. I’ve been wanting to talk about this but would’ve never been able to put it into words as good as you did.
Thank you very much, I don't know if I could call it my best, but I'm glad you love it.
I do kinda like how Star Saber is basically a jet Optimus in a giant suit of armor to give him equal footing against Deathsaurus and the combiners, and still somehow gets his ass kicked at times.
Though some of these points are definitely valid. Probably one of my biggest peeves with BW2 as Lio Convoy and Galvatron felt so ridiculously powerful but all the other Maximals and Predacons felt fairly normal? If that makes sense?
Yeah, the Anime's tend to have a problem with Hero Characters making all the rest pointless, Just like DBZ.
Japanese Transformers - Bumblebee: fights Devastator. Devastator: laughs and beats up Bumblebee. Bumblebee: fatally wounded * screams Optimus Prime’s Japanese name * “CONVOY!!!!!” Devastator: * dies *
While I grew with the writing portion I can't help but like the designs. Like the super robot aesthetic might not fit in but it's an aesthetic I like so I can't complain too much.
On an Unrelated note I actually managed to track down a reasonably priced 86 grimlock and damn everything you said about it was true. It immediately became my second favorite figure next to the masterpiece Soundwave.
I love to hear that. Grimlock rocks, and you even got that MP soundwave, who also just rocks soooooo hard.
But the problem with the super robot design plan is that it trades function to look like a goddamn peacock, like Perspective mentioned.
Real sentient robots would never trade functionality for aesthetics, and that’s why Japan needs a good clubbing for ruining their take on a frankly much better franchise when it is fully taken out of their “creative control”.
Their writing is literally nothing but sad cyclical Japanese culture circle jerking, where nothing is superior to soul ascended ninjas or samurai.
@@JROD082384 that's crazy. Still looks cool though.
Being Japanese and watching the transformers was so different from I was used to. I am glad you brought this up because the giant robots, are literally just people fighting in a war, and I love the shows for it. Japan just dosen’t know how to chill out, so yeah.
Honestly love the way IDW took Sixshot, in contrast to his original design, being a lonely, single man army type character that Megatron sends to deal with difficult situations.
I don't know, the whole "Reapers" Storyline seemed really edgy to me, and they went down like a bunch of Chumps.
(Psst, the transmetals forms of Beast Wars also let the characters who had them survive Energon overload radiation in robot mode. The power up had a very practical and grounded application in that regard.)
Actually they don't, what happened is that MOST of the Energon on Earth was destroyed when the Vok tried to destroy the planet, and so the Radiation levels Dropped low enough that it was no longer a Threat.
If you notice even the people who didn't go through the Transmetal Upgrade also had no worries about Energon overload as well.
@@PerspectiveEnd ah did a quick search and found that we're both correct. While most of the Energon deposits were, in fact, destroyed, high concentrations of energon in a given area still affected non-transmetal characters in a couple of scenes while other transmetals characters were immune
i don’t have anything against japanese transformers, i like some of them but the thing that bugs me is the names
they’re so dumb it’s embarrassing to talk about with someone who asks me about it who’s not in the franchise
“yeah that’s uhh that’s god bomber he turns into a block” “oh that gold warthog? yeah that’s randy”
Funniest part is that it is not only time Takara had trasforming robot with "bomber" in name who had nothing to do with bombing, in Might Gaine, other show of theirs we got entire combiner of 3 them called "Tri Bomber" that that can combine further with another guy, who also has "bomber" in name
as far I can recall, the build team in j-decker was the only time where the members of a gestalt team have actual individual names instead of something like say…dash max, sky max, and drill max (who form god max)
Sky Gary... All that needs to be said has bee.
I'm happy for Sengi he definitely needed that raise since his parents just died and his fiancé is diagnosed with terminal cancer, not to mention that he has been living out the back of his van, not even an entire van just the back of it plus his co worker pushed his 112 year old grandmother down a flight of stairs
Oh Please... Shenji can't get a Girlfriend...
I do prefer it whenever a character has to struggle to defeat and/or kill somebody else.
Even if they're on a similar playing field it still shouldn't ever be easy and the possibility of getting cut down and/or outright killed always represent.
Optimus and Megatron are evenly matched, but if one gets in a certain number of blows in just the right place...
this is why i can never get into anime but still adore transformers cybertron, yes its cheesy at times but its got good story and character growth and each combined mode for optimus never feels forced because it has a reason for existing, overhaul unleashing his inner beast and becoming leo breaker, optimus and wing saber finally learning to work together and unlocking sonic wing mode,
not to mention both sides had a clear reason to track down the cyber planet keys, megatron wants them for power and the autobots need them to stop a massive black hole
@@fangspecter2232 Don't forget how insane Starscream got with his quest for power. This man threw hands with god and went toe to toe with Galvatron. That's not something you can say for other incarnations of Starscream.
@@FireFury190 vary true and not only that, him and galvatron literally blew a massive whole into gigantion that went all the way down to the center layer! and that was them fighting with all the power they had and unlike every other anime, non of that power scaling came out of no where and had plenty of buildup towards it
Exactly. I want my stuff to have TENSION. Super powered heros or villains who can just walk through people like they aren't resisting is boring.
@@PerspectiveEnd Even the people who made Superman TAS understood this. Clark is powerful and can endure alot of punishment but he isn't invincible. Lotta times he came close to dying. You could tell Darkseid had a VERY good chance of killing him.
One thing to add on the whole Japan doesn't understand Transformers is that the Japanese Transformers shows there are targeted at an even younger demographic than they are in the West. Like at Preschoolers. You can tell that a lot of the Japanese transformer shows past G1 are a lot more comedic. Especially the Japanese dubs of Western Transformers shows. Not to mention the live-action segments that happen after every episode that make it feel like a preschool show.
The whole one guy being the absolute best at everything is definitely a major problem I have with Japanese kids' shows. It's really another avenue of Japan wanting a power fantasy with the characters they watch. With shonen heroes wanting to be the king of something. And we're already having the power fantasy problem in anime aimed at teens.
Japan constantly swapping out the casts for a completely new ones all the time is just how they prefer to handle their toy lines. They always want the next new thing. Not the same thing over and over. At least when it comes to kids' toylines. It's why you have shows like Digimon, Yugioh, Super Sentai, Kamen Rider, and Ultraman have a new cast of heroes every show. It's really no different than how Transformers reboots itself with a new show every 3-4 years. It also just makes it easier for writers of these shows to not have to deal with rebooting a character over and over and trying to make them feel consistent with past incarnations. Japan also really liked Rodimus Prime in G1 so that could be another reason why they would switch leaders all the time.
Hell Transformers isn't even very popular in the Japan. At least with kids. Because the only way you can buy Transformers toys is online. They are never at retail because they shelf warm so much. Japanese kids just aren't that big into Transformers nowadays.
Well Armada or Micron Densetsu whichever way you watched it is the opposite of that.
@@johnnypulse5542 Good because I grew up on the Unicron Trilogy and loved it. Mostly Cybertron since that was the one I saw the most as a kid. I only remember parts of Armada and Energon.
I have no issue with how Japan handles Transformers with the more insane action, I just want to know the mind set of why Japan likes that kind of shit so much. And I honestly wish Hasbro would commission an anime studio to do a new Transformers anime. Have Studio Trigger do it. There are clearly people who love Transformers there as evidenced by the TF easter eggs in SSSS Gridman.
@@FireFury190 Ironic that when it came to Armada and to a point Energon, the Japanese produced them with the same mindset Mainframe Entertainment did when they made Beast Wars in it's original glory and not it's Jap dub. They were the least Super Robot and for a time the Japs actually understood Transformer.
But maybe that's why Hasbro won't hire an anime studio to make a Transformer anime, the experiences with the production of Armada and Energon and the result of it dissuaded Hasbro from attempting a joint production like that ever again. And they want full control so it would have to be done on their terms, collaboration on shared interest or not there will be changes and disagreements.
Oh yeah, another thing that Japanese Transformers does that really pisses me off is how they Bastardized Beast Wars. Like how dare they do what they did with the dub of that show.
You know I never really though of how that related to shows like Digimon and Power Rangers, you are right... Huh.
I feel like it's getting that way over here too because of how bad Hasbro has been at handling the media recently.
@@johnnypulse5542 I honestly dislike that. Especially given that a lot of the Generations toyline shows they've made have been pure garbage. I'd much rather Japan have a spin at the wheel again making a TF show than have Hasbro do another older audience TF show again. Especially when Hasbro having too much control often leads to shit feeling the same between shows just because they want brand synergy. I am so goddamn sick of the allspark at this point.
This is why I like to imagine Star Saber and Deathsaurus having their own subfactions, and their little anime fights are somewhere else in space where that's just the norm
Or you can just treat it as a completely different serries that has nothign to do with it.
@@PerspectiveEnd but that's... a waste of potential? For example I had the idea of a storyline where Star Saber honourably challenges Rodimus for the Matrix, believing him to not be worthy.
@@nightlypiano4116 that could actually work
@@nightlypiano4116 and gets his ass kicked
@@APlatypus i think it'd be an even match, but Rodimus' honour and willingness to fight for his men makes SS reconsider
Now it's got me wondering if you had the chance, how would you personally write each of the Japanese transformers series while trying to keep some of their main gimmicks? (Example Ginrai and the other godmasters, or Star Saber)
I don't know about perspective, but me personally, i would limit godmasters by removing the super powers, replacing them with the controllers of the transtectors being able to control them from a distance when in vehicle mode
@@timeman7753 could you also do the power masters to
I'd really Reduce the level of powers. Everyone would be a lot weaker than they are in the show as is.
This is honestly a video I never knew I wanted
Happy to provide.
It's a bad video lmao
Perspective: Optimus Prime will never be able to beat Devastator
Transformers Devastation:
Perspective: Bumblebee will never be able to beat Megatron
Transformers Prime:
About the power scale
It's not really as important as Japanese media makes it
In American Transformers media, usually when they present someone who's menacing or threatening, characters afraid of this character not because of how big or strong this bot is, but because of what kind of fucked up shit he did
Physically Megatron or Galvatron or Tarn or Straxus or Lockdown or any other baddie, maybe not the strongest deceptions of all, Trypticon could step on every one of them together and won't even notice, but those characters are menacing because of their ruthless and merciless nature, it is because of all those horrible things they did without any remorse
G1 Unicron and TFA Megatron, most of the show were just a heads without a body, yet still they managed to bring some chaos and gather deceptions, without moving a finger
Meanwhile Optimus Prime, Ultra Magnus, Rodimus (to some extent), Primal are all respected among their crew because of how wise and caring they are, which makes them great leaders
It's not really about how strong those characters are built, but what they represent
In Japanese transformers, it's kinda a power scale measurement contest, where you need to overpower the most powerful to get more power in order to power up and get ever more power, by using all powerful super sword of power
>In Japanese transformers, it's kinda a power scale measurement contest, where you need to overpower the most powerful to get more power in order to power up and get ever more power, by using all powerful super sword of power
That's pretty much the easiest way for writers to sell you new toys basically. Especially when you're on that crunch to make sure there's a new episode out every week throughout the whole year. Why use strategy when you can get a new toy that automatically let's you overpower your foe without putting much training into it?
And this is coming from a tokusatsu fan where shit like this is everywhere
EXACTLY!
Japan is about the Power Scaling, but what I like is the Dynamics. I talked a lot about fighting power, but that's ancillary to what makes them good or interesting.
funny thing to note in one of the botcon stories when they wrote lyozack from victory to the story he acted like your cliche anime character even screaming his attack moves meanwhile flak and landshark be like "is this guy for real?"
this was the botcon story about kup's olden days where he was in a crew of autobots from the past to answer you which botcon story it is
Yeah I hard about that Recently from the Man him self.
Though I would prefer it to be Bugly or Bludgeon since well, rule of funny and their characterization allows for them to be portrayed as such.
I completely agree with you my guy. Can’t wait to get HasLab Victory Saber.
Happy to hear it. Hope you enjoy that thing none the less.
You raised so many good points regarding this topic, especially since the tone in the Japanese shows is wildly different than the Western shows. Honestly, rather than "SUPER ULTRA POWERFUL SWORDBOT" I would prefer Transformers with Mundane Yet Awesome powers, like the aforementioned Skywarp. Heck, I want WTF powers as well.
You are on my Wavelength here. Though honestly I feel like I could have worded this a lot better. I prefer powers that would be useful, but not world ending.
Here’s my pet peeve: Whenever there’s a female Transformer, the Japanese writers always depict her as a stereotypical anime girl/waifu
I mean.... Most writers do that with most of the female cast. And this comes from a guy that loves anime
It’s almost like they were always a flawed idea
Can you do the same type of video on the wreckers ?
I kind of already did in my WTB Wreckers.
2:25 Well, unless you count Transformers: Devastation. Though in fairness to that, Optimus also does have to charge up his super punch in order to knock Devastator back, so it’s not something Optimus can just spam.
or bumblebee being able to take down devastator. but still, thats a game.
I really miss tf devastation
@@lucastheprime787 But in Optimus’ case, he has the super punch ability that makes it easier to fight Devastator. Something I was quick to find out in the Devastation game is that certain characters are better to use when dealing with certain enemies. For Devastator and Megatron, it’s easier to use Optimus. You could use other characters to take on either of those two enemies, but Optimus is the character who will be able to take on those guys in a shorter amount of time, and with a greater rate of success.
But that doesn’t mean Optimus is always the best character for the job in every battle. I’ve found that it’s easier to fight Starscream with Grimlock, and I had a better time fighting Blitzwing with Bumblebee as opposed to using Optimus.
So yes, it is video game logic at the end of the day, but the characters do have varying abilities, strengths, and weaknesses that make them suited for specific fights. And the rate of success/time spent in those fights will depend on which character you use.
@@Carlos-lq7ey me too, It’s what got me into G1 and I wish there was a sequel.
That's a Video Game, a game where you can't beat all the enemies is lame. Also it's made by platinum. So it too is Japanese.
Brawn is just a mass shifted titan so it's okay for him to throw around Megatron like he is a baseball
I don't think he's a Titan, but maybe he's a Mass Shifted Giant guy.
Some of my favourite designs were Japanese Exclusives, mainly Deathsaurus and Starsaber. I really like their design even after 30 years. And some of these design concepts carried into brave Yuusha ( and some like Dai Atlus were even blatantly ripped from).
I guess to each their own. Some people I know really love the Bayformers, and I still can't wrap my head around that.
"Optimus Prime will never be able to take on Omega Supreme."
Energon Optimus Supreme: Am I a joke to you?
That is in japanese TF so it doesn't count
What Izuto said.
After watching this I'm wondering why thundercracker was never given the ability to shoot or use lightning?
I believe Thundercracker was given the ability to generate sonic booms in his original toy bio. It was never used in the G1 cartoon or the marvel comic (I think) tho.
Yeah what he said plus not everyone needs a power
@@0pt1tr0nD27 True, I still think giving Thundercracker a neat little ability would be cool so he's not just "the blue one" of the seekers.
I would like to point out that Thunder is not lightning.
It’s always been in the an idea in my head but yeah the transformers in most western cartoons are fairly grounded with understandable power levels like a flyer is going to more dangerous than a ground based bot
Exactly the reason a character is more dangerous is very understandable because it's just a regular advantage. They aren't stronger because we say so.
JP transformers may be my bread and butter, but that’s a pretty understandable view of the whole thing yea
Thank you. I'm glad I was able to explain myself adequately.
In many respects I'm pretty much the exact opposite of you, which is funny since you're by far my favorite TF content creator. But that's because you possess a pretty incredible talent when it comes to entertaining people!
Anyway, when I finally started delving into Japanese Transformers, it quickly became my main focus of the franchise. I love Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory, vastly prefer them over seasons 1 through 3 (we don't talk about the Rebirth in this house). Same with Beast Wars 2 and Neo. I love the Japanese designs. I love that they often prioritize the rule of cool over functionality - Transformers is escapist fantasy at its finest, it doesn't always need to make sense, and when cool and realism clash, I'll generally prioritize cool (sure Devastator is cool, but Devastator with a cape? WAY COOLER!) I love the dramatic poses. I love the humor and the clear influence of gag anime in the Japanese series. I love the See See Seacons song. I love the Japanese Beast Wars Seacons and their pirate ship. I love that the Japanese G1 canon places the cartoons, manga, and all ancillary media, and even later toylines like Binaltech all in the same giant continuity, instead of having a billion and one different G1 continuities like we do in the West.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Transformers as we know them in the west (although in terms of media after the Unicron Trilogy my interest quickly tapers off), but I absolutely love the Japanese canon, and when collecting I generally go after the characters from the Japanese continuity first. In fact Fanshobby Power Baser/God Armor (God Ginrai) and Double Evil (Overlord) are currently duking it out on my nightstand. 🤣
My girlfriend has Darth Vader on hers. My goodness we're nerds.
Thank you! I'm so happy to be the guy who can keep people around through sheer entertainment.
Nor do we talk about the Rebirth in my house.
See I very much DONT LIKE the rule of cool. When it's used subtly I like it just fine, but when logic starts going out the window "Because Cool" I start getting really annoyed.
See Devestator with a Cape is dumb to me, because he's not one guy, he's a Team of guys only temporarily fuzed.
When you say After the UT your interest Tapers off as in you don't like Animated, Prime, The Movies, The PWT, Cyberverse, and the WFC?
Or do you mean that you Also don't care for G1 and Beast Wars?
America: bold enough to actually make Rodimus and Primal distinct from Optimus (even if Season 3 of Sunbow’s animation was junk)
Japan: Optimus knockoffs all the way down
Perspective, you’re not crazy for disliking Japanese Transformers media. Heck, there’s a lot of takes you’ve had on this franchise that are ones I agree with (the Wreckers are TRASH). Just do you, y’know?
Also, agree with you on the comical overpoweredness of Japanese Transformers. I love Star Saber, Overlord, Lio Convoy and Deszaras as much as the next guy, but precious Primus, they all need to be nerfed HARD if they ever appear in new TF media.
Also also, Angolmois energy is technically Dark Energon. It’s Unicron’s lifeblood
Don't worry I'll never stop being me. I just want people to know I'm not doing it to be a contrarian or an asshole.
Indeed. Like I'm ok with the Bad guys being strong as hell, but not when they can wade through the good guys like they aren't fighting back.
Wow. And I thought I couldn't hate Evil Gasoline any more.
How are the Wreckers trash?
@@alejandroelluxray5298 Watch his "What's the Best Wreckers" video; he'll explain his position there
i do also prefer the cleaner robot designs on western transformers, but the japanese ones i do like are the ones where it looks like they tried to integrate the vehicle parts into the robot body a bit more, making the transformations seem more believable and translate better into the toy figures. prime's design in the armada anime looks like it was MADE to avoid the issue on 99% of G1 prime figures where the grill in the front of his truck mode was different from the one in his robot form. also his truck wheels were exposed in robot form, so they dont need to hide them inside his leg using panels with hinges that will probably lose durability and become loose pretty fast
I mean I can feel you on that, but I still find them gaudy.
Ironically Angolmois Energy was Dark Energon before Dark Energon was a thing.
Indeed it was, and while the name was still bad, at least it wasn't the Equivalent of "Evil Gasoline."
I honestly don't have much of an opinion about japanese transformers shows (mostly because I barely watched any), but after you've mentioned it, I've realized that almost every major character originating from japan in either OP as fuck, a leader, a chosen one, have some sort of conecction to an ancient macguffing, or all of the above. And all of them trying to one up eachother when it comes to who's the strongest.
Just remember that Optimus is all of those too… and Rodimus for that matter
Exactly. The characters are just to powerful in Japan, the power creep is unreal.
Never thought you were racist lol. Its funny because I'm an asian american weeb whos all about anime nonsense. To me though, transformers is a very specific case, this franchise has a very delicate balance where only certain japanese styled character designs seamlessly feel a part of the overall franchise and in my opinion the japanese side of the fandom/official media can lean alittle to hard on super robo anime stuff.
I'm glad to hear that, yeah, it's started to bug me because a few people seem to be maybe put off a bit by it, so I was worried how I was coming off.
And EXACTLY, they just don't fit together as one cohesive serries because the two VASTLY different story telling types.
This is actually very insightful and helped me to appreciate some aspects of the transformers that I never knew I loved. While G1 is far from perfect it’s narrative situation at the beginning is very nice and you did it justice by your explanation. I don’t hate anime but it’s not my thing I personally cannot stand the art style or the animation but the over exaggerated nature of some of the stories always bothered me most. This says it all, much thanks
You are very welcome. Happy I could voice your beef as well as mine.
Its also a thing that giant robots in Japan arent usually characters. Almost every robot is a piloted mecha. Japan does robots with character, but...usually more humanoid androids. So they tend to make the TFs even more their archetypes than the West ever does.
Absolutely, this is another good point.
This is a good video and I agree with your point. I actually noticed this same issue in regards to power recently with the Japanese Transformers. I like Transformers Cybertron and RID 2001, but it always did bug me that Optimus is always the most powerful, and suddenly pull out some bullshit even when it looks like he's defeated.
Yeah, victories should be hard fought, the super powered leaders are lame.
I would have to say the Unicorn Trilogy is not exactly like normal Japanese Transformers. Yes there are the lasers that just, go everywhere. But there was never one overpowered character that just did everything
I mean there's always Optimus.
@@PerspectiveEnd yeah that’s true
Hell yeah we reviewing countries now.
Nothing can Stop my Reign of terror.
I have always felt like transformers was more of a real robot series like gundam. Sure it had mystical and fantasies stuff but it was the 80’s and Star Wars happened.
Honestly less of it than you think, really the Mythical stuff mostly came AFTER the Movie.
@@PerspectiveEnd what about the Beatle super weapon, robotic Spinx, the pool of magical water that turned seaspray in a connan the barbarian knock off, and the giant dragon monster optimus fought?
They also invented the scanning an alt mode on the fly rather than using he ship to reformat them
Truly they are history's greatest monsters.
My biggest gripe with storylines originating overseas? How often problems are solved or overcome with the power of believing in yourself or the help of many children (thanks Car Robots 9_9)
Yes. That. That's kind of what I was getting at.
This is exactly how I feel about Japanese Transformers. It's how I feel about Japan and anime too. I respect Japan as a culture and anime as a form of art an entertainment. It's not that I "hate" them, but I' m just not a fan of their ideas and tropes. If there's one thing I like about Japanese Transformers more than the American versions is their take on the headmasters. I definitely prefer headmasters being the actual Transformers rather than a separate human or nebulon in armor. In my head canon fanfic, I like to see headmasters as the Transformers transferring their sparks and consciousness into a smaller human sized body to drive their bodies in vehicle modes and have a holographic disguise to make them look more human.
I can like Japanese tropes, but it does annoy me when I see them over commit to said tropes.
Oh yeah, I hated the Headmasters being Squishy Organics, that was dumb and I always despised the Rebirth.
Now I realize that since Thundercracker in Cybertron always said super attack names, I now wonder if he’s a weeb.
I mean you've seen his Japanese Fan Dance.
@@PerspectiveEnd so a weebu?
We're kind of opposites; I'm an Asian guy who's life once revolved around Magic the Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons, and Warhammer.
1:45 - 212 : This why I use to hate Star Saber (nowadays I think he's *just* ok). He's like a robotic gary stu, or a fan-made D&D character who's cool and OP at everything. There's no stakes because his plot armour is stupidly thick. But I realise now that's just Japanese culture. Transformers Victory at the time was aimed at children, and Japanese shows (drama serials, animes, etc) are a means of social engineering. Japanese producers and parents wanted to instil the belief in kids that the good guy always wins; and if you want to win in life, you have to be the good guy... There's that, and also the G1 Star Saber toy was outrageously expensive, and the job of the show producers was to advertise it.
You're not wrong at all. Personally what I like about Japanese transformers is how they handled stuff like headmasters and power masters.
Also coming in as a Gundam fan I really enjoy the designs of guys like Starsaber, but I don't like hows he's basically invincible.
A character being able to beat anyone and anything is boring. If they go in to something knowing full well, and it's presented that they could lose, then that's actually badass
I'm glad that you can appreciate my points, even if they are opposed to your own.
And exactly. OP Main characters is beyond terrible. You want OP villains that the hero's have to work to beat.
Wait, so Optimus with his trailer as armor isn't something you like? Just to make sure, because everything about that is supermode ,but wasn't a new concept to the transformers. Power master is a thing, which I believe was a co-made toy by Hasbro and takara.
Also, if you even feel like saying the aesthetic for a transformer isn't something you like because of the super robotness, just use that clip of Johnathan Joestar saying "I'll never forgive the Japanese" it's funny, gets the point across, and ironic since the show is Japanese in origin
Japan or not, Optimus combining with his trailer is something that should always happen.
I can't say that I HATE that but I don't like it because if he can do that, then why doesn't he do it all the time. And if he does it all the time, then it robs the victories of their meaning.
The Good Guys should struggle. That's what makes the Vicotries Cool.
I've never seen that clip, so I didn't know it existed.
@@PerspectiveEnd the reason he wouldn't use it all the time is because it big and clunkier, so movement should be harder (sometimes) so I think of it as more of a gun rather then a form, if I'm going stealth, I'm bringing a personal side arm, not a explosive, but if I'm mid fight with something, the explosive should be used
it's cooler yes, but that'd essentially make OP Ultra Magnus.
joseph joestar said that not jonathan joestar
Say what you will about Japanese transformers, there’s one series we don’t speak of
Kiss Players
Shhh! We don't speak it's name.
Something I’ve realized is that you haven’t brought up any example of Japanese Transformers in which you say the heroes and villains are so powerful they can do almost anything. Additionally, the plots of specific shows are never mentioned, such as Headmasters, Masterforce, Victory, Beast Wars II, Beast Wars Neo, and Go!. So with a lack of evidence to support your points, such as power levels of characters and the goals of the factions, I can’t say you’re helping your case unless those watching your video have watched those shows, of which I haven’t watched any of them.
I mean I didn't think it was necessary to present annotated evidence as to why my points were correct, cause I wasn't arguing that it was bad, just explaining the things I don't like about the Transformers Manga and Anime.
Thinking about the designs, which were adapted from Diaclone and MicroChange are fairly grounded. Diaclone have robots that mostly transform into real vehicles, and the same for MicroChange, just with miscellaneous toys, weapons, and devices. I personally find that fascinating. Dunno if that’s related at all.
Just the name Super God Master Force gives me a brain hemorrhage
I know right!
YOOOO the $1 raise was the funniest shit ever. I need more Perspective rants/beefs
Thank you. I hope to do more in the future.
Honestly, it would be fun if you did roasts on Anime main characters.
I mean I did Grandus, and Skygarry.
I’ll say in their defense,
The Japanese G1 shows weren’t made with international broadcasts in mind and were exclusively for Japan,
So I kinda don’t blame them for leaning more towards what was popular about mecha anime with them
But i could never get into it, most mecha anime just aren’t my thing
I absolutely agree... If I want to play with Gundmam, Mazinger or Macross toys, I'll be buying those toys directly, not buying replacements among the Transformers characters!
Exactly. Those series already exist and Transformers was it's own thing.
IDW took a jab at Thunderclash by hyping him up to be this great Gary Stu, and then making him useless in the actual stories
I never noticed that they made him useless, it just seemed like he was the guy who everyone took out first because they wanted him out of the way. But yes. Even being Finger Quotes "Amazing" he never had much physical impact on the conflicts.
This video put a tumor in my head
Sorry to hear that.
one, word. Anime. what else is there to say?
Anime isnt that bad
Especially because The WFC trilogy is one
@@joaoandlucas5867 WFC isn’t an anime
@@zack-qb1xq "anime was a mistake"
-gengis khan
@@lonewolf9578 Netflix said It was, Even Tho it Isn't
I guess that's why I treated the Japanese series as their own thing cause of all the points you just said. I never thought about why the series from the headmasters to Victory did not feel right but your points again got me thinking. Granted I still like them for what they are.
I'm glad I was able to voice something you couldn't put into words your self.
While I can generally understand your points, and agree with just about all of them I can still appreciate that the Japanese take on some of the gimmicks are better, mainly things like headmasters. Transtectors make way more sense than what the G1 cartoon was trying to do, and that extends to every similar concept. Also super modes are cool, especially if it's something practical looking like cybertron prime's flight and firepower boosts.
Like I said, I hope you never stop liking it, but I just don't.
For me Supermodes kill Tension. I like it when the good guys are at Real Risk of losing all the time.
You’re not wrong, but I don’t agree with everything either. Yeah, Japanese Transformers are far closer to the traditional super robot than the US/British war narrative (one could argue the Braves are a more distilled idea of what Japan wanted from the Transformers especially given Masterforce and Victory are often referred to as prototypes for the Brave shows) and that is very separate from the core conflict…but that war in the comics is a mere offshoot of a much greater conflict between their creator and Robot Satan. There’s an element of mysticism built in at that point.
Hoping this doesn’t sound too rambling because I think you have a point here, the Transformers in US continuities are closer to the real robot genre than the super robot one, but some of the wackier yet most iconic elements of the lore are drenched in super robot ideals.
Honestly, the distinctiveness gets more blurred the moment you step beyond the G1 Cartoon, especially the original Marvel Comics. The mystical aspects TF lore started there, not in Japan.
Another Reason to not like the Marvel Comics.
You don't have to agree with anything, I just hope you can see my reasoning, because this isn't about convincing you of anything other than I'm not crazy.
I truly DESPISE when Unicron is made into the Cybertronian Satan. NO ONE IN G1 KNEW WHO HE WAS!
Why would Hotrod say "Unicron? Who's Unicron?", if that was the case Kup should have slapped him and said "You know Satan." "Oh Right."
Religion should not be PROVEABLE in Transformers.
@@PerspectiveEnd shut up, just because you say that doesn’t mean it’s right, not everything has to be realistic and grounded
@@PerspectiveEnd and I despise your opinions
Honestly I don’t mind the mystical power levels when your starting to deal with energies from like Primus and Unicron. Although I’d also point out that your argument about “we need to remake this thing because we didn’t make it” comes back to the US series’ too… like how Dark Energon and Analgomos are basically the exact same thing but “they’re different” because the writers of Prime just refused to acknowledge them as the same thing.
Also… a lot of the JP series’ have the Autobots lose or not auto-win usually. That has happened before in some of the shows, although most try to have points where the characters lose. Then again many times the characters seem to have stronger power levels when they actually don’t. Cybertron is actually fairly well known as some of the higher end of the power scale (even the “strongest” JP G1 characters are scaled to be around the power level of the combiners. Just because they won doesn’t mean they are inherently stronger. Also Lio Convoy is scaled to Optimus Primal)
I still like the JP shows because they were willing to go places that the US shows wouldn’t… namely explore the factions and war without Optimus and Megatron, and not have everything on Earth. Yes there are some points that are crazy… looking at Masterforce especially… but it’s not like the US side has not had similar things… like Megatron surviving a blast that moved Cybertron out of Earth’s orbit… (compare to Victory Saber who became so injured after a planet was destroyed he couldn’t continue to fight…)
Oh don't get me wrong I DESPISE Dark Energon, and I hate when Primus gets involved. The Transformers Should not Have provable gods.
At the same time the JP serries also have armies of guys who the Autobots still lose to while wasting thousands of enemies in a giant horde at the same time, because of Conservation of Ninjutsu.
I don't think that's a Place that western media wasn't willing to go, remember Beast Wars is a Thing, and Season 3 and 4 of G1 are a thing.
@@PerspectiveEnd I actually like the powers of Primus and Unicron are involved but I feel that should be fairly rare, just like the Thirteen should exist but I don’t like them being around all the time. I also rather have the Transformers have those provable gods honestly. The characters existing and having the occasional interaction is very cool IMO, but I hate when they are around too much.
Well that’s going to be an issue with series that fill out their casts. G1 has similar issues at times, which really just happens when you have shows with big casts, especially when you have generics to fill out the cast. Actually it brings up an opposite issue in most of the Western shows that the scale of the war feels kinda diminished when the primary part of the war is fought between about 10 characters… it makes the war feel just a bit too… small…
That’s actually kinda my point - the last time we really explored these ideas and spread out past the few moments in the war is the Beast Era outside of Animated and from my understanding that took a LOT of convincing Hasbro to let them do a post-war setting. It says something that G1 and the Beast era was the last time we really saw Hasbro take a major risk with the franchise. (And even with that I’d argue Animated wasn’t a “huge” risk as they kept it to the same “basic” concept - Optimus and Megatron are still facing against each other and the real risks that show took didn’t happen till S2 when they were pretty solidified as a show)
The Yellowing wont stop. Here is a list of figures I have found to be yellowing in my collection.
- SG Starscream (everyone knows that he is inevitable)
- Kingdom Dinobot and Grimlock (Same spots on the hands and lower arms as well as inner chest)
- Artfire (His head bucket for some reason is yellowing and that is it)
- Jazz (Front tire covers)
- Tigatron (Sad but true on the hands, feet, upper legs and upper arms)
- G2 Ramjet (tiny spots on the blue plastic yellow a bit)
- Netflix Megatron (Upper legs, Head flap, upper arm joints, leg pivot joints)
- Jhiaxus (Upper leg hinges turning weird green color)
That is pretty much it for now. Still worried about SG Soundwave and Breakdown
Man I'm sorry.
Are they in a cool location. I'm really starting to believe it has to do with heat.
@@PerspectiveEnd Just in my room. Best option for my cabinet.
This video hurts my brain
Sorry to hear that. I was just explaining why I don't like this stuff, not why anyone else shouldn't.
Am I the only one who wants a transformers show were we get to see the military side the Autobots and Decepticons like there different ranks and how they operate and all those things hopefully you get what I am talking about
I'd be cool with a more structured faction serries where it focuses on the war aspect more.
@@PerspectiveEnd Beast Wars kind of did this where both leaders (Optimus and Megs) were once indisposed, forcing their crew members to do something. Of course though, it gets resolved later on so...
Average Japanese Transformer battle Decepticons about to kill main character Accidentally drops their gun Main character Becomes overpowered The leader leaves The minions Retreat
That's a fair summary.
The real reason is because when Michael Bay he screened the movie for Japanese producers, they reacted with "Oooh"
... Wut?
"Small guys can't kill big guys"
Cliffjumper, who almost assassinated Megatron in G1: *T_T*
The operative term is Almost, and I'd argue "Not even close" considering he missed by a Mile. He just had the opportunity.
Video idea for you: It you were in charge of the world building for the newest Transformers continuity, what would that look like?
Hell, that could become a whole series, if you wanted. I’d sure watch it.
Yeah, they are different. As such, just because you like one doesn't mean you'd like the other.
Exactly. Nothing wrong with liking either. I just only like one.
@@PerspectiveEnd Right, like some like chocolate OR vanilla, while others both.
4:46
Two of these guys have non-Earth altmodes, and Deathsarus has a fantasy creature altmode akin to the Monsterbots.
My counter, Jetfire and Omega Supreme.
How are Jetfire or Omega Supreme's bodies covered in decorations, they are both pretty plain.
And Omega Supreme isn't a Cybertronian, he's a Guardian Robot, AKA a Sparkless Automoton that was built, so he would be afforded more Decoration than a Sparked being with a Biology.
Watched your video, and I like it, it reminds me of Transformers Go! when you bring up Japan, and its disjointed attachment in the Aligned Continuity.
PerspectiveEnd you got a lot of valid points. Food for thought.
Thank you very much. Happy so many people can finally see I'm not crazy.
Finally! I always found it weird how not transformers like Japans shows were honestly it is more akin to Gundum with their flashy designs and overpowered characters. Although to be fair there versions of American toys kick all kinds of ass.
Irony being they are less militaristic than Gundam
Idk man, there’s still a big difference between Gundam and Japanese Transformers, even though there are a lot of aesthetic choices.
@@amazingstudios7889 there are the same designers, but style is different
Agreed. Though it is funny that Gundam is probably one of the least Flashy Super Robot shows.
@@PerspectiveEnd it is NOT super robot, it is classified as real robot meaning a military Mecha
Pretty succinct explanation, yeah. As for OCs, I'm rather happy to say that Transformers finally got a dedicated tabletop rp, the core rulebook came out at TfCon this last weekend, I got the full kit and thank Primus and Vector Sigma they return to energon and the genuine Transformers series. It wouldn't be hard to lens/homebrew it towards your favorite series as the lore, mechanics and balancing are all based on G1, BW, TfA and TfPrime with a smattering of unified characters from others. It sold out in a day, so I'm hopeful it'll get dedicated books to each series.
I read the book on the 22hr train ride home, I'd give it a recommend, though I should warn everyone here, the core rulebook is 55USD, so might not suit everyone's price tag, but given that's the price of most 5e books I've seen, that may just be the new standard. I haven't owned a physical book since Pathfinder or 3.5e.
Oh did that Come out. I thought it was still a few months out.
I need to check that out.
@@PerspectiveEnd Yeah, they timed its release with the Chicago TfCon this weekend.
I think this video helps me better understand my own personal issues with various Japanese-based TF media and toys. I can enjoy them, but I can also view "TF: Cybertron" and consider all the ubiquitous 'unstoppable force of will' and 'power of friendship' stuff as overplayed Shonen anime bullcrap.
Exactly. It's just like everything else Japan makes, and Transformers is special. It should be different.
I think the way you described this is the reason why I hate Headmasters so much. I enjoy Masterforce and Victory a lot, though that may be mainly because I take them as Super Robot anime doing their own thing. Headmasters though feels like a bunch of dickheads fighting their own weird war in the middle of the Cybertronian's fight while everyone else from the last season is shoved to the sidelines, reduced to just standing in place & shooting blindly in fights or, worse case scenario like Magnus, killed off posthaste; not to mention how overpowered Sixshot and the Headmasters are. Like, them taking down someone like the Throttlebots, sure, but when they start taking down Combiners in one or two punches, that's when I get annoyed. Not helped at all by how the Autobot HMs are just jackasses and Scorponok decides to take over the Decepticons because "I want power, lol".
Exactly. When it's blatantly part of the TF franchise is when it's most unforgiveable, because it's twisting the characters stories that we know, into stuff it should have never been.
@@PerspectiveEnd Yeah, least of all when they literally blow up Cybertron in episode 10. Y'know, THE REASON THIS WHOLE WAR IS HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE?!? Literally almost every episode beforehand revolved around Cybertron somehow, but then it goes boom and I'm pretty sure the only few times it's mentioned afterwards is when Zarak is describing how his plan works.
"No one can access a super state where they are unstoppable"
*me with my story idea that Optimus channels the Matrix and Megatron uses Dark Energon to become stronger*
Yeah, I'm a have to be your Opponent there.
Also Dark Energon is stupid. That's like saying "Evil Gasoline"
@@PerspectiveEnd Honestly, i like the idea. Energon is the blood of Primus, so it only fits that Unicron's blood would be something similar. It's important to remember that it's blood as well as fuel
@@PerspectiveEnd shut up, energon isn’t just gasoline, stop treating your opinion as fact
Remember when G1 did “the rebirth” and Japan was just like “fuck that we’re gonna do something completely different for some reason” and then Boom, Headmasters and the Japanese Canon was born
So if only "Season 4" finger quotes, didn't suck so bad, none of this would have ever happened to us.
@@PerspectiveEnd g1 post movie definitely wasn’t as good, Galvatron was okay but he definitely wasn’t the same as either megatron or Galvatron in the movie, Rodimus wasn’t as good as Optimus
Imagine the bayformer decepticons appears in the japaneses transformers universe and didn't wait for anyone there and attacked like eren punching the Warhammer mid transformation
I'm not quite Following.
I meant that the bayverse decepticons will start attacking the Japanese autobots before they finish their anine transformation, and those ships they have with guns that evaporate humans to ash will kill starbsaber's son and he'll be anger and proclaimed he will destroy them only to get shot everywhere by the oac or orbital assault carrier ships
American transformers are better but Japan had better toys
Edit:I mean transformers shows.
I mean for a while at least. Though I'd say the WFC stuff is better than anything Japan put out in the main lines.
@@PerspectiveEnd yeah, that’s why I said had.
Amazing
Everything you just said is what I feel about Japanese Transformers
I’m starting to love you more and more
I'm happy to hear that. A lot of people took issue with what I said here, and I do get it, I phrased it kind of Agressively so it sounds like I hate Japan, but some people actually get what I mean, so its nice when it happens.
@@PerspectiveEnd yeah you do have a kinda angry tone but it’s fine by me
Keep up the good work, Mr. End
Tl:dr 2 nukes wasn’t enough
Damn that’s a spicy take PE
I feel like that was your take.
This is a fairly long comment that tries to respectfully breakdown the misunderstandings in the noted points. This isn't a jab or an attack and I mean it all to educate those with the same misunderstandings. You are 100% entitled to your own opinion and that's alright👍
To be fair, this isn't widespread knowledge but I don't think you realize how powerful certain transformers really were.
Optimus from the very beginning has the power to destroy entire planets in a single punch, but he limits his power GREATLY for the sake of whatever planet he's on. Megatron is presumably nearly as strong or at least a competitor of that range because even with Optimus going all out in '86, Megatron still put up a hell of a fight and took Optimus with him. Megatron was just rarely in physical combat at a point where he was capable of using his full strength without -again- destroying the very ground(or device) he was standing on.
Yes, Japan upped the anti by 11, but it was still grounded in it's own way because most of the time(as far as G1 alone goes) the powers weren't just strength.(it's also worth noting that 99% of the abilities were dramatized for kids)
For the Headmasters it was skills and personality attributes.
For Godmasters it was the harnessing of different types of energy for different strengths in combat(not represented very well unfortunately).
For Brainmasters it was like Headmasters but to a higher degree.
I will 100% surrender this point for Transformers Zone in particular because the powered masters were hella broken, but even then, you'd kinda expect the guardians of the thing that created the universe to be stronger than pretty much anything else around. Much less, a rag tag group of Decepticons that can barely be considered a real enemy at that point in the storyline.
But lumping Japanese Transformers as a whole into that category of power issues isn't fair in my opinion.
And with the energy in the Japanese BW shows, it was surprisingly well explained. The beast characters are far more fuel efficient because those shows take place hundreds and thousands of years in the future after a technological leap for Cybertron as a whole DUE TO how long the separate factions were fighting over resources.
Anglemua(I don't remember how to spell it) is not only a FAR superior energy source, it also derives from an ancient doomsday prophecy in Japanese culture. Coincidentally the release of BWII or Neo(again, can't remember) lined up roughly with the prophecy so the creators based the newly discovered energy on that historically grounded one.
Most of the other stuff you said is opinion based and that's completely alright and you don't have to like the Japanese shows. I just wanted to explain why it's far more grounded than you think and how the original show was far from exempt of the majority of your points. I personally enjoy the shows BECAUSE they're grounded in unique ways but I understand that not everyone wants to do the research I do just to enjoy a show or two. And a lot of the things I broke down seem stronger than they really are just because it was a kids show so everything had to be flashy.
Overall, I respect your opinion but I don't really agree with the majority of your points because of most of them being based in misunderstanding.
I hope this helps explain some of the Japanese oddities respectfully : )
(im not a computer so I may have gotten a few details wrong toward the end because I'm not as familiar with Japanese BW as I am with the G1 stuff, but the points still stand as far as historical basis)
It is indeed quite long.
I can't tell if you are joking? No Optimus was not in any way powerful enough to destroy a planet, if a Cybertronian was, what threat would Unicron be.
Even after Unicron Powered Up Megatron, he wasn't strong enough to even Scratch Unicron.
And I do get that not all Transformers Manga's and Anime, treated them as having the Same Levels of Power. Some of them were more grounded, but the fact that you have to sift through them to find the grounded ones is a problem.
Becoming more Fuel efficient does not mean more powerful. A vespa is more Fuel Efficient than a Car. That does not mean a Vespa could pull a car.
The Beast Wars characters were stated to be more Fuel Efficient, yet Megatron had to Charge up an Attack for like 20 seconds just to injure Optimus Prime's Face.
Angomua energy is an example of my type of problem. It doesn't matter that they explain it, the explanation is just an excuse to have Super Powers. The problem is the Super Powers, not the lack of an explanation.
And it's fine. I'm glad you like it, it's fine that we disagree on what's we like in this franchise. I'm just glad to have fans like you.
@@PerspectiveEnd this was actually my introduction to your content😅 but more importantly, I better understand your point on the powers from stronger energy now, I was misunderstanding and misrepresenting that. Sorry about that. Moving onto the point of Optimus though, you are incorrect. He WAS that powerful.
Unicron was not simply a planet, but a multidimensional god of that realm so of course he would be stronger than an average planet, but it's also worth noting that Optimus never actually made contact with Unicron so we don't actually know how that would have gone but in fairness, we know how Transformers movies LOVE their muhguffins(not sure how to spell that one either so I just pronounced it) so that's kinda irrelevant.
Optimus himself, however, was far stronger than any normal fight would depict. In The Ultimate Doom 3 parter, Megatron was caught at point 0 of an explosion strong enough to move Cybertron(a planet depicted in this context as roughly 3 to 5 times the size of Earth[it's also made of much denser materials so that's a whole other mathematical can of worms]) not only out of it's current orbit, but at a rate so fast that it was out of view in a few seconds. Needless to say, that was an explosion that could destroy a planet had it been on the ground, but after the explosion, Megatron merely has some cracks in his armor. In the '86 movie, Optimus did a hell of a lot more than crack his armor and we don't even know if that was Optimus' strongest, we just assume so. So Optimus was AT BARE MINIMUM strong enough to destroy a planet with a single hit seeing as Optimus actually SHATTERED parts of Megatrons armor in individual hits.
Optimus' strength isn't really debatable with what we can actually see, but I would definitely be willing to agree that it's explained HORRIBLY and rarely ever brought up.
Topping this off, I 100% agree that it's a huge problem that fans have to sift through this much lore and history and math and shows and movies and comics and convention exclusives and character bios and all this other shit just to understand the original story in a cohesive way. It's insane! But that necessity to expand your reach to learn more is part of the fun for lore junkies like me. It really does hurt the casual/semi-casual fans, but it's REALLY fun for the completionists and aficionados. It really just depends on where you are in the community. But that variety is what makes this series and this amazing fan base so diverse. It could use a LOT of fixing for the less invested, but it's been fun for me and a few of my nerdy asf friends so it just comes down to perspective there.
Oh also lil bit edited on here, Unicron's physical threat means basically nothing because the matrix and him being a god and all that extra shit. I didn't really explain that well but I'm not about to spend 30 mins typing on a small point of the long comment discussion😅
OH I forgot to respond to this point so here's another edit😅
On the point of fuel efficiency, I agree that that doesn't inherently make them stronger, but more so that stronger energy for a more fuel efficient body would make them stronger or seem stronger by scale of attacks. That was mainly in regard to anglemoise(I think that was how you spelled it but yet again my brain fails me here lol) being a super energy. I also didn't word that particular point the best either. Sorry for the inconvenience there, my comments are way too long for this tiny ass text box so I have to scroll and reread a lot and my memory isn't the best, but I hope this comment helped clear up some of my ill wording.
I'm sure you can guess this bit as well😅😫
I misread one part of your response, the part where you mentioned sifting through the Japanese media to find the grounded ones. I mentioned how all of them(just in the G1 continuity til about the release of Neo) are grounded in their own way. If you'd like I could go more in detail on that point since I explained it on my first comment but you said that anyway. I might be misunderstanding again, I'm sorry if I am. This has been a lot of typing lmao.
Glad it made you stick with me, though I thought you'd been around a lot longer than that.
Um no. That's not accurate. The Multidimensional Unicron thing, is something the Retconned him to be in like 2012. It was not a thing in the Franchise before that, and it also no longer is.
That was a Temporary idea that Hasbro had, that they have since given up on.
Also to be clear they have since stated, that Optimus never used the Matrix before, because he was not worthy of it. So even if we go by the Multidimensional Retcon, Optimus was actually less powerful than you think.
That's not really how it works either, you can put better fuel in a more Fuel Efficient Vehicle, but the Vehicle does not become more powerful than before.
At the end of the Day the Components of the vehicle can only handle the level of Strain you Put them under. If you did manage to over charge them with say a WAY MORE powerful fuel, the pressure bearing components of said vehicle would just break under the strain.
Super God Masterforce, has people Transmogrifying into robots. That's not what I would define as Grounded.
@@PerspectiveEnd The Unicron bit was more of a small nitpick but- yes I was aware that it was a short-lived concept that was retconned, but it was canonically retconned. That means that it was in the story, then it was taken out of the story by means IN the story. That implies that it was around prior to that story(even if not plainly stated), and that's the basis I personally use, but that is ENTIRELY dependent on how we want to view it so I'll drop that there.
Back to Optimus, I never said the matrix made him strong, I just said he was strong and gave my example of why I believe that. I only mentioned the matrix because that was "the only thing that could destroy Unicron", as the movie put it(and which was kinda proved when he was multiversally split in the retcon story)and was relevant to making the m'guffin(I'm not even trying anymore lol) joke.
And with the fuel thing, yeah you're right that a part can only take so much strain, but that doesn't change the fact that in the Transformers mythos across the entire series ever since G1, stronger power sources have made Transformers stronger. But that's more of a picky choosey thing because that went kinda back and forth depending on the plot of that week's episode or what creator wrote that plot.
Yeah that end bit doesn't really make much sense realistically but it's good to keep in mind that we're discussing an 80s kids show so some dots just can't be connected or they take a long ass time and way too much work to connect(lol).
My main points were just that Optimus was stronger than you thought and that point still stands, and that stronger energy can make a Transformer stronger, whether it be for a short time or permanently which also still stands as far as logic IN Transformers goes. Although your Masterforce point is kinda irrelevant as far as just the point itself. A human transforming isn't grounded, I agree(Daniel in '86), but I don't see that as a relevant point because it didn't give any direct power boosts to anyone that gained the ability. It was the transtectors that had different abilities, and even then, the Godmasters were the only ones that got a boost of any kind. The Headmaster Juniors just got bigger bodies that allowed them to fight like normal transformers. And if by "transmorph" you're talking about Hydra and Buster, then that's a slightly different story. Now THAT is a good example of the powerup bs you talked about, but it didn't really amount to anything but cool new face designs for them in the end.
You haven't really proven any of my pertinent points wrong and have failed to reinforce your own. I only started this because a lot of your original opinions were rooted in misunderstanding so I wanted to explain. Sorry if I'm sounding a bit spiteful, I'm actually really enjoying this as a debate and I really appreciate your taking time to respond to my point, I just get very passionate😁😅
Quick edit: just remembered that the multiversal Unicron thing was brought back in the Netflix shows but if we're talking OMNIversal then yeah you're still right about it not being a thing anymore.
Star Saber in victory wasn't that powerful , skilled yes but not powerful , he actually lost some fights to which Ginrai had to come and save him which enviably lead to Ginrai almost dying himself and being reformatted into Victory Leo and I have read more into the Japanese g1 continuity Star Saber actually got shot down by Megatron but to me Victory seemed to me at least balance in term of the characters strengths and weaknesses to older characters .
That would imply PE has watched any of it.
I'm not saying that the good guys never loose in the Anime series's but that they are Generally OP, like with Dai Atlas killing all the Combiners with ease.
@@PerspectiveEnd To be fair to Dai Atlas, that's more the result of a writing shortcut to make a new character instantly valuable and cool so kids buy their toy (hopefully). The same trick was used for Sixshot in the US G1 continuity, were in his first appearance he is able to take down all members of the Arial bots using his different alt modes, even though they're supposed to be a strong capable combat unit who can form a massively powerful big robot to turn the tide of most fights.
"optimus prime will never be able to take on Omega Supreme or Devastator" Optimus prime literally destroyed Unicron in Marvel G1 and keeps being a space jesus, so i don't know what you're on about here
I'm not talking about the comics. I hate those too. Unicron is not Cybertronian Satan. Fuck that noise.
@@PerspectiveEnd well, the comics are part of western transformers, deal with it. Also not to mention how Optimus in idw defeated unicron by literally the power of love. So no, it's not japan who doesn't get the transformers, neither the west gets them
Well let me say this, Japan basically made the Transformers. Without Diaclone, there would be no Transformers so they can do whatever the hell they want with the franchise they basically created
They did not create the Franchise. That's like saying you need to thank Nature for the tree your house is built out of.
What made people care about the Transformers was the writing. The figures had already bombed in the US once under different licensing, and it was the lore that made it succeed on the second go.
It is fine to like the Japanese additions if you do, but "They made the toys" is not a valid argument for it.
“Optimus prime will never be able to beat devstator” *devastation intensifies*
That's a video game where you are meant to have fun.
4:05 I still prefer Anguima Energy as a name instead of Dark energon.
This is fair. That is better than saying BS like "Evil Gasoline" which is all I hear when people say Dark Energon.
Woah, at this rate this video may surpass the ER video for most controversial, didn’t think that would ever happen.
Hey guys, new Japanese transformer dropped! It’s ultra godmaster super ginrai mega star god sky blade convoy
Edit: no, not accurate. Needs a couple more over the top adjectives
I don't know, that felt Really Accurate to me.
It shows that you did not see the series
Which one, there's like 10?
@@PerspectiveEnd I was referring to the animes, I must clarify
totally agree. I have never liked the overly flamboyant body parts on the the Japanese TF'S. I'm not a huge fan how the most powerful weapons are swords in the franchise now either
Yeah, swords are cool as a back up, but as the primary damage dealer is silly.