Is Suspension The Future Of Gravel Bikes?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2020
- Suspension on gravel bikes is a contentious topic, with many people arguing that you should just ride a mountain bike off-road instead. But as technology evolves and more people start to ride gravel, the demand for forms of suspension on gravel bikes has evolved. Si is convinced it's the future, but how do you feel?
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si you left half the fork at home
He lost it. Rattled loose.
Seriously ... it’s made like that to be lighter
I had the privilege of riding a Lefty for one trail run a few years back and even though it's normally on bikes that are too expensive for my tastes, or abilities I experienced stiffness and flex-free steering precision that I've never encountered with any fork other than rigid forks before. Granted, my old RS Pikes with a Maxle are far from the best or stiffest thing around today but I've tried out newer bikes with modern, better Fox and BOS forks than mine and they're still missing the bump-sensitivity and precision of that Lefty I tried.
Before you think I'm mad for Lefty forks, I'm not. They're expensive and much harder to maintain, apparently. They also severely limit your frame and hub choices. Like most of us, I make do with perfectly acceptable regular forks and almost wish I'd never ridden that Lefty. I'm not willing to put up with its downsides but I now know how much more flex, weight, and sticktion my own forks bring to the table. Ignorance was bliss!
@@chrisfanning5842 there's a big impacting factor you're missing. The wheels. They change the way a bike handles massively. Cheap wheels are weak and flex in both axes. The radial flex is okay, but the lateral makes the steering fell muddy. Entry trail wheels are stiff in both directions which isn't optimal, but better. The wheels on the lefty were probably high(er) end,maybe carbon. Good expensive wheels flex on radial impacts, same as the suspension,but not laterally, so the feel very precise to steer. I never rode a lefty, but their lateral stiffness is praised (and marketed...) so mayby you felt the combination of really good wheels and a really good fork.
@@blackpete Lefties are just AMAZING. The best suspension ever you will ride, and not only are they superstiff, but also react way faster to imperfections as they have way less stiction.. but what makes them amazing in use also makes them a pain in maintenance, just look at the intervals:
cannondale.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/219100977-What-are-the-required-service-intervals-for-Lefty-forks-
Essentially £1-£1.50 per hour of operation.
As mountain bikes got more suspension had to ride tougher terrain to get the same level of excitement, when I got a CX bike was amazed how much fun it was riding green and blue mtb trails and even the forest roads became enjoyable. I think suspension would make it more comfortable and easier but mean less grins.
I definitely regret getting a full sus trail bike for riding mtb in my area. Even the harder trails I could probably do on my cx bike.
Yeah but even a cx bike , when you hit big roots and ruts and branches they just are not made for that abuse without any compliance of a suspension
exactly my thought, I thought the point of gravel bikes was a "back to the roots" cross country experience..
Sometimes roadies' opinions are as stiff and unforgiving as their frames and tires...
stiff like a sports car = gotta go faaaast.
Przemyslaw Sliwinski at least trials riders know to differentiate their opinions and frame stiffness...
Hahaha spot ON and just like UCI road racing rules...roadies are generally very difficult to accept changes/progress......ie the hoohaas regarding disc brakes which MTB have been using for ages and even slow acceptance of tubeless....hahahaha
Or perhaps it’s different strokes for different folks.
@MRGRUMPY53 You've been living under a rock mate?
My main problem with shocks and other suspension pieces on gravel bikes is simply the service interval of those pieces. The Lefty Ocho rebuild interval is 200 hours. That's fine on a mountain bike as you're not generally going to be riding more than 2-4 hours at a time. Gravel/road? You might be rebuilding 2-3x or more a year if it's your primary/commuter bike.
I think this is an inherently niche product: only for people who can afford more than 1 expensive bike, and those with very specific riding needs.
This bike frame with a lauf fork, all flex, no sliding parts
I had a Slate when I lived in Iowa. Completely awesome there as gravel roads could be very rough. I now live in Minnesota, with much smoother gravel and traded my Slate in on a new Domane. I run two wheel sets, and with 40c tubeless it’s great on MN gravel. So, yes, probably niche for states like IA, KS, NB, etc. but completely worth it on those rough roads. The maintenance intervals are definitely inconvenient. I usually was ‘notified’ about mine when the fork began to stick and the ride suddenly got much harsher.
200 hrs is a very long time when you think about it. Typically, MTB forks have a 50 hrs service interval.
@@bink281 Yes 50 hours for a small service, but also 200 hours for a big service, its just that most people dont do it like that. Most people will just get it serviced when they really notice problems or after a long time like 2 years.
We are just re-living mountain bike development. We are now somewhere around 1999
Sit back, relax and enjoy the cyclomilennium crisis
@@PolyglotBikepacker you would think companies could take a lesson from history and skip all the interim steps, but where is the profit in that?
Yep
I would just put 40mm width gravel tires on a cross-country mountain bike if I need a gravel bike 😂
Ah, as a citizen from a third world country, I have finally found a road bike fit for my city. Though I might have to work for a year to get enough money to buy this.
Ur probably better off with a cheap one from some local shop, bikes like that get stolen pretty easily
Are you from England?
the best bike, is the one you have!
Chad Hayag yes it’s hard to be a British.
this bike is stupid, cost big and easy target for thefs , stay low profile with your cheap wheels and be happy.
What I like about this is that nowadays we have more options when it comes to choose a bike. Excellent video!
Remember Simon telling he rode gravel cause mtb had got too easy?😅
Jeez
Dave Zabriskie said something similar, although more complimentary of mtb. He said in an interview for a gravel channel that “if you think the course seems easy, just downgrade your bike”. His own way of saying how much he enjoys both mountain and gravel.
So dum. Change terrain!
😂 I remember that, whilst riding a boring, mellow trail and spouting off like it was technical 😂
For me it’s more like an “MTB light” not gravel. come on , dropper post and full suspension frames? Why? I think the market is trying to sell everything right now under the umbrella of gravel. I am huge fan of non-competitive bike touring and bike-packing but these features are totally unnecessary.
I’m looking forward to these becoming more mainstream, I live in South Somerset and always found the roads uncomfortable on a road bike, have since changed to a gravel bike and couldn’t be happier. Looking at that Cannondale it just gives you so many options on one ride which can only be a good thing in my eyes.
One important aspect worth mentioning that suspension provides is compression and rebound damping. Tires do have some suspension but no damping.
Of course they do, it's inherent in the material, otherwise you'd be rebounding up and down endlessly after the very first bump.
Si’s so consistently good in these videos but at 4:21 he really surpassed himself 😄👍
I love GCN's (and Si's for that matter) attitude towards sponsored content.
Reasonable. They at least make it clear that it is sponsored.
The Jeremy Clarkson of the two wheeled pusher world?
I own both a mtb and a gravel bike (no front suspension), using the gravel bike even on light trails is a pain particularly because of the rigidity but also it’s geometry that puts you above the handle bars, how hard it is to position behind the seat and also very narrow handle bars to deal with rocky terrain. I really like the gravel for tarmac and occasional dirt road short segment but would def not recommend for any trail of any level
Si, you caught me. I had already made up my mind about suspension on gravel bikes (against) before watching the video. After hearing your thoughts I am a bit more open to the idea but will stick with my old tried and true titanium cyclocross bike for my personal gravel adventures.
I bought a couple Cannondale Slates for me and the Mrs a few years back. Absolutely love them. For all the reasons mentioned in the video. Try one. They are amazing. And now I want a Topstone.
For the price of that thing you could get a half decent road bike and a hardtail...
But neither can do both road and off road really good.
Better have one best thing, than two good ones.
@@blackpete sure darling.
@@blackpete But this also can't do on and off road really good. It's a compromise.
@@earthstick It's always a compromise. You just need to decide what and how much you want to compromise. Which is gonna be different for every rider. When you buy an MTB solely for off road riding, you compromise things as well. For example an enduro bike is gonna be better on the descends, and an XC bike is gonna be better on the climbs etc.
I roll a 2018 Specialized Diverge full Carbon W future shock suspension, Which it really does add to the comfort and overall feel of a really fast machine that's compliant.. ✌💜😎
mine came with x30 tires, moved to x32. Been eying x37 at next tire replacement. Friend of mine get the new model, with x38 tires and he's enjoying it
Mine has 38's and they are Ideal!! 🙂
0:39 gonna let us make up our own mind ? Thats what we always do Si. Nice vid and bike btw.
Great piece, Simon! The cynics would say this is the bike companies trying to bleed the customer base dry behind the flag of n+1. I love to see the time, effort, money and risk which goes into developing and applying this sort of tech. Also, it seems almost purpose-built for the UK's potholed roads!
Just love Si and love gravel... So this combo is legit! Thx GCN! Well played...
Love you guys, keep it up😎
Nice vid Si. I recently bought a gravel bike with 650b and i will never look back, still fast on the roads but so much more comfortable with the pot holes and generally crap roads around the cotswolds. In my opinion it's faster around my neck of the woods. You are spot on, nimble is the word
One of the most exciting things about this video is the Venture Front/Byway back tyre combo. Another thing to trickle down from MTB, and something we should see more of, and is likely to be the next focus in adventure road/ gravel tyre development. I’d love to see more choice out there for this.
Nice Video! Thanks. I have a Diverge with first gen future shock. I mainly use it for commuting over rutted bike tracks carrying a clarinet, saxophone, flute, laptop, lunch, and change of clothes. (I teach music.) It carries this weight really nicely as opposed to my old flat bar road / hybrid commuter which used to flex side to side. I don't actually ride it on gravel very much but the suspension is great for all the pot holes and ruts. I Australia they lay some new bike tracks that are as bumpy as a road after 20 years of use......Ah....... I dream of Switzerland!
You can always lock-out the suspension and put road tires on a gravel bike, especially if the stack height is roughly the same as a road bike. That said, the midnight blue/green Topstone Carbon with ultegra and rigid fork is one of the best looking bikes I've ever seen.
I've just sold my emtb to fund my Gravel Bike. I've just purchased the new Orange X9 Pro complete with 40mm travel Fox AX front fork..... 1 month in & my face aches from the constant smiling..... Great video Si
What a great way to start the summer. More suspension = less sweat? Happy Summer Solstice Si and GCN!!!!! ;-)
This topic is front and center for me! I spent the past weekend on so many gravel roads on my gravel bike and when I returned home, said to my partner...is it possible to put front suspension on my Norco? We are looking at options now because it would be so much more comfortable, especially with the rocky gravel roads we have in New England. Thank you for this run-down of information. Cheers!
Oh how great. As soon as I start looking for a monster cross bike, gcn uploads this
Devinci hatchet. If you can find one in stock anywhere
I bought a Suntour Suspension Seatpost and a Redshift Shockstop Stem for my gravel bike. The reason is because some of the routes I take are through some small mountain villages with fast descents with very rough roads that fatigues my hands holding on and braking during those sections. The seatpost is to see if it will save my spine in the long run. I also suspect these upgrades are way cheaper than going out and buying a new full suspension gravel bike. Heck, they cost less than half of just a Lauf Fork.
I think you need to review Redshift on CX setups for minimum weight
depend on which is your priority....1) fast on the road and can still go fast thru non technical trails = gravel bike wt susp. 2) Very Fast on the road but can only go thru gravel road (fireroad type) = rigid gravel bike 3) non so fast on the road but way faster on technical trails both down & up = full susp XC bike 4) slow on the road but can bomb thru/flatten tech trails/rock garden/downhills = ALL Mountain trail bike......Choose which suits you preference..
Anyway, way few years back santa cruz brand have a gravel bike like called "jake the snake"
Wasn't that Kona and a cyclocross bike?
@@chrisunderwood3453Exactly, yes, but did it have suspension, anyway? The current ones don't.
@@nikveldkamp8630 No. The Kona Jake the Snake never had suspension.
All bikes are getting better and for sure, it looks like a bit of suspension on gravel bikes is the way to go. You always do good work, Si, as Scientific Si and thanks for that.
Gotta say I'm a fan of suspension in a Gravel bike. I bought a Specialized Diverge Sport last year and its supper versatile. Especially as I've also bought a set of Hunt aerolight34 wheels for it as a road set up. One bike, two wheel sets and it runs really great whether that be on club group rides, longer distance training rides on the wonderful roads (NOT!) of Belgium, on pavé, or on forest trails and farm tracks. The "future shock" front suspension just means I'm more comfortable on my ride and I don't actually notice it otherwise. A true quivar killer.
Is mountain bikes the future of gravel bikes? ...
Is gravel bikes the future of mountain bikes??
No chance, that couldn't do half of what we can
@@phillipstewart2031 Is road bikes the ultimate future of both mountain and gravel riding? At some point cyclists are gonna understand that straight tubes and narrow tires are soo much faster! They will even find a genious system that is lighter and easier to use than those giant rotors sticking on your wheels. The future is bright
Will the road bike finally go extinct? The future is bright!
@Salvatore Gravano yeah, the biggest thing keeping me from buying a gravel bike, is a road bike. Already have a HT MTB
@Salvatore Gravano Lmao it's a hit now. Gravel's the ultimate bike for all terrain
Love the Topstone, love Cannondale. At the same time I have a Ridley X-Trail gravel bike - without suspension. Really don’t see the need to upgrade it. Seems like one more thing to service, as much as I like the aesthetic and the potential, just not worth it for someone like me who already has a very serviceable gravel bike. Ride what you’ve got & love it!
I started in MTB but now, work/living circumstances put me in the heart of the city, meaning I have a high % of time on roads. That said, over the past year, I haven't done a route yet that didn't include some section of off-piste, which at times can get quite gnarly. I have route options available that could see 25-33% of my ride on questionable surfaces. As such, I continually find myself yearning for the utility of a MTB to cruise quickly and accurately over the rough stuff but with the lack of grams of a road bike for speed on tarmac that comprises the majority of my route-km. This Cannondale Topstone, unlike the Frankenbike that is the Slate, looks like it ticks all of the boxes. I want no limitations on my riding. Now if GCN could just help me to complementarily demo the bike for a year, that would be quite nice thank you very much!
Lauf Fork + Kinekt seat post = My full suspension gravel Jamis Renegade since 2017! Hell YES!!!!
Best video. Nice work Mates 😃
I have a 2017 Cannondale slate Ultegra. Still love it. It’s my commuting bike... er... when commuting was a thing. Tubeless carbon rims.. I might get one of these new lefty top stones as my only issue has been the 650b size and choice of rubber
I am definitely open to front suspension if tuned for the road. I think it’s better day go this route them to get increasingly larger tires. Some bikes are exceeding the 50 mm range now. Not so quick anymore.
I’d like to try both this and the Niner full suspension gravel bike that was on the channel a while back and see which I like more. I don’t really like the bobbing I get on my FS e-bike and I like standing up more on a road bike so I suspect I’ll like the Cannondale. But that’s just a guess.
Can I just say the quality of these vids are better than ever post lockdown🤙
The Idea of suspension on gravel bikes is just amazing to begin with, I havent really had any experience with any other bike than XC bikes, but my terrain is usually a good mix of Road, Gravel and good climbs. I would definately try a gravel bike to see the different feel especially in terms of speed. Question is since Tires play a big role on performace, What tire size would be a sweet spot for a perfect all round Gravel grinder with / without suspension? Also Do a piece on Suspension Gravel bikes only ....Like try out the Leftys the Full Niner , the levarg i'd love to see what the lads at GCN think about those as well...AND ...any suggestions on online shops that would ship bikes down to Kenya for decent prices. Thanks.
4: 44 As early as 1885, the Whippet brand of safety bicycle was notable for its use of springs to suspend the frame.
At this point just put dropbars on a mtb and call it a day
It would be awesome if it was that simple.
I have a 90's rigid steel frame Peugeot mountain bike I've put drop bars and a road crankset on as my winter commuter. Of course it's a heavy beast compare to today's gravel bikes, weighs 16 kilos.
Modern MTBs are a bit different. The biggest problem is reach. Straight bar specific bikes always have longer top tubes, especially new MTBs. If you put a drop bar on an MTB you will be super stretched out. You can just put a short stem on it, but the handling might be crap with a super short stem and drop bars, and even XC bikes are moving to shorter stems so sometimes you simply can't get a short enough stem to account for the extra reach added. You can also try to size down, but the fit might never feel right. Then you have drivetrain compatibility issues. Then if you want a bit higher gears for road sections, you might not be able to put a chainring big enough on an MTB, because chainring sizes are usually pretty limited for maximum tyre clearance. Then you have the $$$ issue. The bike in the video is expensive, but so is converting a new MTB (drop bar hydro prices are ridiculous).
There are drop bar MTBs out there that were designed from the ground up with drop bars in mind, like the Salsa Cutthroat (sweet bike IMO). But it's not as simple as just bolting drop bars on instead of flat bars.
@@HOllyBOni have you seen the high end gravel bikes? they have a long wheelbase and high reach, and require a short stem
its basically a mtb with dropbars and a rigid fork and low headtube
@@HOllyBOni imo if you wanna go fast off road, rigid titanium is the way to go. just get a custom frame done and you're good to go. make the toptube really low, and have it slope up. hell, just get a moots with the weird rear triangle, don't need shocks.
As with any bike discussion, there is significant crossover technology that on the surface may blur the edges when comparing specific bikes. I ride both road and mountain and often can be seen riding my S-Works Epic XC on the road; the disadvantage is speed. I can comfortably ride 18-20mph in most conditions and push up to 25mph in favorable conditions, but not over longer distances - I mainly use the XC bike for training on the road when I have less riding time available do to running out of gearing and eventually, the watts to push a large bike in an upright position. Even on Gravel, the XC has limitations on the speed side and requires a significant increase in watts to maintain higher speeds. With a Gravel bike like the S-Works Diverge or the Cannondale Lefty, the weight increase is still significantly less than my super light XC along with aero frame and riding position, allowing me to increase my speed on average by 5-6mph, and in favorable conditions (no wind...) I can ride 26-28mph for longer distances; or significantly less watts expended to maintain the same speed. A similar jump can be made when I ride my pure Road bike. What about my S-Works Hardtail... yes it's a bit faster because it's lighter than my full suspension XC, but not much, and the aero aspects of the riding position and the bike still hinder higher speed performance.
Now, given that I am older (64) I'm not going to do much single track on my Gravel bike, but wider trails and gravel roads, or urban jungles, the Gravel bike with some suspension can't be beat as it keeps the tires in contact with the ground, less fatigue on the body, better gearing for the terrain, lighter weight and Aero qualities adds up to a fast ride for less effort. There is a definite place in the cycling world for a lightweight suspended Gravel bike and it is the future of this blended riding environment. Great video Si... Seems like some testing is in order on these bikes to numerically show the benefits!
I have got a full suspension road bike, a 2000 Hercules Emozione. It makes the ride really smooth on the road but comes with a penalty of around 2-3kg. Now with the trend to gravel bikes I would like to fit bigger tires in there. With 1mm of clearance I can just fit 28mm wide tires. And now modern endurance disc bikes can fit already wider tires of around 32-35mm which are not as plush as a full suspension but are probably a better compromise for speed and weight.
I think a combination of a Moots Routt YBB with a Lauf SL would be a worthwhile test in this category!
Gravel bike for decent money is extremely fun to ride on gravel roads, parks, partly roads. Any MTB would be just slow and heavy (or seem slow, but still be and seem heavy).
Not an XC bike...
Just bought the Triban RC 520 Gravel. Good partial groupset (Shimano 105), not the lightest, not the heaviest. Suits my budget just fine. I'm looking mainly road and path, but light rubble and wooded paths too. Perfect for my needs. Replaced the rear cassette already from a Microshift 11-32 to a Shimano 11-34, for steeper hill sections. Will replace the chain for a proper 105 Chain soon also. Carbon forks. I'm not looking for rough gravel terrain, otherwise I'd be using a mountain bike. The wider bars of the mountain bike will also help with control on the bumpy stuff. Otherwise - road bikes with suspension would have been brought out by now.
Just started riding my Cannondale Topstone 105 alloy (not rich enough for carbon). It's a dream, and a perfect match for my regular riding route. If I were to consider rougher terrain, some suspension would be nice to have. As it is, on the packed roads that I ride, the big tires and carbon fork dampen the road enough for me.
You can consider any bike if you like but what really determines which bike makes sense is you style of riding and even more WHERE are you planning riding, in my opinion. I live in North California, the real north meaning in the redwood forest, so all roads and paved roads are bumpy...now you tell me what I am riding and what I am planning to get as my next bike. Smile.
Good take on this bike. The topstone lefty isn’t exactly a full suspension bike, I know, I own a full suspension gravel conversion (2015 Scott Spark) and a topstone lefty. Proper full suspension operates with sag and the travel is dampened. In the cannondale, there is no sag front or rear and only the front is dampened. The benefit to real suspension is traction, since the wheels follow the contour of objects they roll over, they never lose contact. The benefit of the topstone lefty is that it rides like a road bike should, but attenuates the blows from what you are rolling into and over all day long. Don’t expect this bike to have the traction of a dualie mtb but it stays glued better that a fully rigid bike and being several pounds lighter than my dualie conversion, runs like a rocket.
For myself..& my cutthroat, a red shift stem & maybe the seat post is all I think I'd ever need suspension wise for the terrain I typically ride.
good to see Si rocking the new kit.
Just got my Kona gravel bike a week or so ago. Such a blast. I admit, proper suspension would help but I’m using this more as a commuter bike with the odd trail session here and there.
That's a great application for a gravel bike - you can get to work a little faster than on a mtb, but it's still fun to take off-road on the weekend!
Where I ride gravel roads can often have severe washboarding and moderate pot holes so suspension could make a lot of sense. How about a video on xc mountain bike vs suspension gravel on cobbles?
How does it compare to the Lauf fork you've previously tested?
The Lauf is going to have much less maintenance and issues like that. I think it is also designed to take out the road buzz as Si called it where this left fork is for the medium to large bumps
For the type of riding here in the coffee belt of Colombia, a little suspension could be nice on these old, often rocky logging roads and busted up chunks of concrete that comprise of the other mixed surfaces. (Most people here are riding Downhill and XC Mtn. bicycles). However, I do enjoy the extra challenge (and perhaps arm workout) of under-biking them on my rigid fork on the gravel bike.
Also amazing your capability to pedal and talk so fluently.
Living in SoCal where the gravel is rocky, I totally understand the appeal of suspension on gravel bikes. However, suspension does make it a bit more of a specialized tool instead of the all rounder it's best as. My gravel bike doubles as a road bike with a wheel swap, so I'm good with a rigid one for the foreseeable future. If I ever needed more comfort, I could just revert to a suspension stem/seatpost if necessary.
Having ridden that rocky section in the video many times on my Topstone Carbon without a front fork, I have to say it'd make it a lot more fun to have one! But I'd say that route is on the limit of a gravel bike vs MTB
Is mountain bike the future of gravel bike ? 😉
No!!! Who the hell wants to ride a montagne bike on hilly roads!!!!
@@kevywilliams3304 seems like you didn't get the joke
@@P0pcornmaschine looks like someone else didn't. But the problem is, it isn't a joke, is it? Marketing people pushing 90s MTB geometry hard, now with 90s miniscule travel suspension fork. And in a couple of years a suspension gravel with more travel and a gravel bike that weights less etc. Just ride what you like but don't be fooled by the marketing - a suspension fork adds a kilo to the bike and at least a few hundred dollars to the price... Wake me up when there's a full suspension bike below the UCI limit...
Judging by bike shop inventory around here, mtb are the only bikes. We have no mountains here.
just google flat bar gravelbike: how to sell a 90ies mtb in 2020
Bike companies are always creating "niche" in the market in order to sway people to spend more. First, there was the RBs then followed by the MTBs afterwards they combined both to come out in our consciousness the Gravel bikes in rigid forks then now introducing a Gravel bikes with suspensions so we goes back to MTBs. People spend more by following this "niche" with they created to enriched themselves.
There were lots of people before gravel bikes who owned 5 different kinds of MTBs for different purposes.
@@HOllyBOni my point. by the way, i forgot to mention ebikes.
I would love to see a GCN logo on that high-tech bike stand. Patent pending? On another note, how did you get on with the BB30A? Any annoying knocking, clicking and generally unhealthy sounds originating from the BB? I bought a Topstone C 105 in Jan '20. Fantastic smooth ride - but many other issues. e.g. been through 2 rear wheels in 4 months (stock hubs are made from compressed toilet-paper I reckon..... ). Upgraded.
Awesome video !!!!!
Great product, easy to clean -worked out great !
I rode a Topstone Lefty (with the aluminium version) and it rode extremely well. I had a bit of an issue with the 22lbs weight though vs the Ultegra RX version (which I ended up buying, i.e. the normal fork version) which came in at around 18lbs. For the use I will do with this bike, the fork with 40c tires was plenty and I did not want the weight drawback for 99.5% of my riding for the added flexibility of 0.5% of my riding which would « require » a lefty. If money was no object, I would have bought the top shelf Lefty with Carbon Lefty with almost no weight difference but then that would have doubled the price of my bike, something I did not want. Overall, fantastic bikes, both in Lefty and fork versions.
I see PLENTY of room in the market between traditional rigid gravel bikes, and XC mountain bikes. My quiver killer dream bike sits in this space that's currently under-served. More of this!!!!!!!!
Cannondale have always thought outside the box and to be fair they have succeeded. Since the dawn of time inventors and riders have been trying to make bikes more comfortable and putting suspension where the impact area happens is the best choice.
Absolutely suspension has better control over rough terrain. I like how you said instead of the energy bouncing you up over bumps which slows you down, it absorbs that so you can go faster. People can spend a lot on a typical bike so adding suspension , why not, the more this is done the more expectation it will be there.
I finally tried 40s on my road bike and I am loving the “MTB” trails less than 2 miles away from my apartment. And then on Monday I ride it 10 miles to work on the road.
I believe it to be the absolute best for what I need!
I love Si, he’s my fav presenter by far.
Ollie and Dan are tired as my second fav.
Good video, Si. Thanks for the input. P.S., I'm old enough to have a feel for the "recent" evolution of bikes. Thus, I am, perhaps, a bit more open than some to innovations when they come along. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't, but they're always interesting.
I have a hard tail MTB, the suspension does something but not as much as I might have hoped. Maybe it needs to be a bit softer. That brings me to a question. If your tyres are low pressure, nice and soft, when you hit a bump are they not going to compress and possibly hit the rim before the suspension reacts? Should the suspension be more compliant than your tyres?
How much speed do you get from seat suspension on a gravel surface? You sit your butt higher and heavier on a gravel bike. By contrast, on an MTB in a singletrack situation, your weight is set more on the pedals for leg-suspension purpose. Many types of seat suspension are available now, from separate steel spring devices between saddle and seatpost, to actual suspension seatposts. At cruising speeds over 20 mph, gravel is rarely as flat as it appears. THis is especially true when riding in aero bars. You get shot into the air by the saddle. I've even broken a saddle.
Great analysis and quite impartial. Personally having experienced MTB from the 80s I love the more conservative fully rigid gravel bikes. They are a great reminder for what cycling is all about. It's an uncomplicated and healthy way to explore the world around you. If things get rough you still have the option to carry the bike on the shoulder. Putting your feet down it's not a shame 😉
Interesting
Love your stick stand 😎😎
I own a Cannondale mtb with a lefty and love it. But personally I'd throw a Lauf fork on one of these for truly maintenance free full suspension.
I can see how racers would benefit from additional speed on certain courses, but for me there's something extra-satisfying about having the skill to make it through with no suspension. In real-world application, I'd go unsuspended gravel with appropriate tire size for the terrain, or go Mt. bike for extreme climbs and descents and more difficult technicals. That just makes sense to me especially when you're looking at such things as cost/benefits in terms of performance and maintenance/durability.
If your off-roading is getting so demanding that it requires suspension then are narrow drop bars and a road racing riding position going to hinder you next?
I think there is a place for these bikes along the spectrum of road to off-road, it just depends where you want to be on that scale.
Good video, and discussion points.
For me, when you start to need full suspension, then you probably need a MTB. However, a soft tail like the former Topstone, or
the BMC system, or like on the Roots is fine. For the front something like the FutureShock, Isospeed or the RedShift stem should be enough to take the sting out of road/light trails.
I agree with you, I own a steel road/gravel bike on which I can out on a beefy pair of wheels and the red shift and I own a Fargo. You can really feel the difference in purpose there! The Fargo is a monster cross, basically almost a MTB for travelling.
If I were to put a suspension fork on a gravel bike, it would very likely be the Lauf or some similar design one to kind of keep the simplicity of such bike. But for the Topstone Neo is Lefty air fork probably a very good choice (I could imagine that bike being ridden by my mom if its price tag was about two thirds lower).
I haven't ridden a gravel bike yet but I'm assuming its fairly close to a cyclo crosse bike of which I have ridden and loved. Great all-rounder. But isn't putting suspension on one a bit too much towards a mountain bike?
Or why not put drop bars on a xc or dh bike? Anyone tried that?
That castelli kit is super nice
Si gave lowkey the best explanation on suspension that I've ever seen. Kudos to the lad.
Wheel base is also a major difference that wasn't covered very much, but just from eyeballing your gravel bike it's pretty obvious how much shorter and more nimble, but as a result less stable, the gravel bike is compared to a trail or downhill setup.
I am all for suspension in gravel bikes but I am a very aggressive rider and enjoy fully rigid mountain bikes as well. I love pushing the limits of my gravel rig and suspension makes those limits alot harder to push.
I have done around 1000km with my gravel, mainly on very good road. With less than 5% rooty / bumpy road, my wrists and elbows hurt. So yes, if a suspension is lightweight, I would definitely need it.
A beautiful machine, however weighing up the cost of the bike against the pain and inevitable trip to the dentist via an angry Mrs, I think I will wait for my numbers to come in.
Coming from MTB, riding short travel trail bike, i were hiting the road on fitness bike. Then Gravel bikes arrived. And i took this train ASAP. A few years later, and some km, I have foundmy style of gravel riding. Long escape on smallest roads, country or forrest paths. No self emulation, "am I able to ..." kind of thing. Just go look further, and no matter if I carry my bike. I often create my own POIs for future MTB rides this way.
Today, what do I expect from a gravel bike? More flex in the rear and a goddam*** dropper seatpost! I don't really fell the need of front suspension, for my style of riding of course. Reviews with FOX AXS fork complain about supplness when leaving the saddle.
I must try a BMC URS, using MTT seems to be a good solution. If those beasts could handle 2x drivetrains, it would be awsome.
I'm incredibly excited to see the engineering specifically designed around gravel biking. I don't think anyone should confuse this at all for a cross country or downhill mountain bike at all - as Si said, its design concept is still very much a light, rigid road bike, and the specialized suspension is very much built around that as opposed to truly harsh offroading.
Great to hear Sumiko!
What is the difference/distiction between suspension and 'damping' and the balance beween the two on a gravel bike. Damping or suspension or both so to speak. Damping being technology that essentially amoeliorates and manages generally poor surface quality and suspention having a more active effect but presumably more impact on ride quality on good tarmac. This raises the question of the potential for damping to become (once more?) a feature of road bikes more generally especially in an endurance/winter bike arena were variable road surface is potentially significant factor. It would seem to have a logic following the trend for forks designed to allow forfor more forgiving tyre choices.
I have two cyclocross bikes. A Raliegh RX Race 1x and a Focus Mares CX4. I road the Raliegh to a pretty impressive time i feel at the Paris Roubaix Challenge and I use this bike a lot on fire roads around cannock chase but riding with a friend on an 8kg hard tail all day. It was really disparaging to see him disappear over a 100 meter section of roots and bricks. Suspension definitely has its place.
I suppose XC MTB have a choice of full suspension and a hardtail depending on the course and a roadie has a choice of an aero bike or lightweight climbing bike depending on the terrain also. So a suspension gravel bike should be seen in the same way as an option instead of being what all gravel bikes will be in the future, although the need for this option will be dictated by how rowdy gravel races in the future might become? I'd be interested to see a suspension gravel bike with the geometry to take 29er wheels and 2 inch tyres though if the larger wheels are supposed to roll better.
Hi Si great video , one thing tho . Trek has brought out their new 2021 Emonda .
Great video but it’s left me thinking how gravel bikes compare to hybrid bikes. Future GCN video perhaps? 🤔
I ride a hard tail mountain bike Scott Scale 970, on gravel all of the time. Change out the rocket Ron’s for a nice set of gravel tires. Stay in the mid range gear box and can go all day. When I get on the road I can just jump the curb move up to the third gear sprocket tighten down the front suspension and keep on going.
Nice! That's great, glad you're enjoying your set up!
My current hybrid bike is essentially a basiv hard tail mtb with 700c wheel (Carrera Crossfire 1). If this type of bike was marketed as a hybrid (which it does seem to be ultimate version of) I'd have one of these alongside my road bike and try to fit more mtb style tyres to the current "hybrid"