Get ALL my tips in one convenient place: Check out my In-Complete Book of Electronic Music Ideas, Tips and Tricks: patreon.com/loopop UPDATE: Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live. Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live. Also, check out Nabla Looper for Reaper - I've not tried it, but it's worth a shot if you don't own live: th-cam.com/video/LmMO4KhsxLI/w-d-xo.html
Hi there, I have ZenAudio already, but I'm finding a bunch of issues with it, and now there's no support I don't know how to troubleshoot them. Would you recommend just ditching it and going with Ableton?
@@loopop I already have Ableton, I found out about Zenaudio and got excited because it’s a lot simpler and to the point for this. It’s disappointing they’re winding it down, I would like to keep using it but I’m not sure it’s worth the time investment if it’s going to have issues that won’t be fixed or supported.
@@kirstylouise indeed disappointing - there’s a reason I put them first, however, in light of how operating system updates tend to break unsupported software, ALK probably wouldn’t be a good long term bet (just like Ableton Live 8 or 9...)
Thanks for this. My entire Twitch performance has been built using method 3 from this video, and I want to say a huge thank you to @loopop for this brilliant video. It does take time to sequence the looping, but the benefit is a stable looping environment where you can focus on the performance and forget about pedals! I also use a ‘cue track’ where I tell myself what to play next (and remind myself of the lyrics). The possibilities are endless!
I have been wondering about how this works for a long time, and I feel lucky to have found this video. Excellent description of these methods. Thank you!
@RickySweum, well we did cover this in class way back in 2016 ;-) Lesson 5, I believe. Ableton's Looper is certainly the easiest, it works just like a looping guitar pedal, only better (more features). But with the an IAC bus control you can map out a much more complicated live looping performance, including loops of different lengths and changes in your arrangement, such as muting a loop after you've recorded it and then bringing it back in all hands free. The downside is that you need to follow along with your mapped out game plan or you can easily end up lost. It's really the most powerful and flexible technique but it certainly requires a lot more planning and rehearsal, versus just looping away with Looper.
@@jt9800 It's $129 for the package of three devices. Audio or midi alone is $60. tinyurl.com/yatxbm9f If you loop instruments, it's indispensable. If not, maybe not needed.
Great video for multiple approaches! I'd like to add that for the IAC approach you can get away with doing it without an external midi controller for mapping. Kind of a hack I used when I was away from a midi controller. 1. Create a midi clip on a new midi track with a single instance of the CC or note you want to use. Set midi output to IAC. 2. Play the clip. 3. Stop the transport (not the clip.) The clip should still have a green play arrow that is paused. 4. Turn on midi map mode and click on the parameter you want to map. 5. Press spacebar to start the transport. The clip starts playing with the midi CC or note. It should map to the selected parameter. 6. Hit spacebar again to stop the transport. 7. Leave midi map mode and delete midi clip (or just change value for next mapping and repeat.) Your parameter should now be mapped to that midi CC or note. As someone who also teaches music technology I really value your videos! Thanks!
Whoa this totally blew my mind. I have been trying to wrap my mind around how she did that for a long time and you solved it in a 15 minute video. Great stuff!
wow so a bunch of these "live loop performances" are actually so intricately planned out with all the instruments, loop lengths, pre-amps/fx pre set up in the daw! never realized
I always wonder if it's cheating...I like to use it with a drum track and sequenced looping and I feel kind of guilty haha. I don't like backing tracks but I think this is a decent compromise for a solo performer.
That ALK Zen Audio looper is pretty great. Works as advertised and has been super easy to stay in the box and make music. Finding it hard to record and arrange on the fly, that software makes it seamless.
The technical side os great but more importantly you have told us how to create a very convincing renditio of Feel it Still with just a bass, a drum, and a lead. Thank you!
Thank you so much for this tutorial! I'm getting into live looping after a while of wanting to do so. I already know how to play piano and electric guitar, but I'm still learning about live looping. Thanks again! I'll check out the rest of your videos.
Hi! Awesome video, I am thinking of going with a Boss RC 202, DAW methods feel a little shaky to me :(. What is the blue box you are using for percussions? I am looking for standalone synth and percussion hardware.
Elin how are you getting on with your Boss? I have the RC505 and feel the same! Especially for performing live, this software feels so foreign to completely change to... tempting to try tho!
Thanks a lot for posting this. I'm so over all the commenters basicly calling Elise a liar when she says in her video descriptions that they are done live in one take. Not that she doesn't reherse but she DOES do the finished vid live.
RADThird1 thanks and yeah - if you need proof check out her jimmy kimmel performance - the clapping at the beginning of the first loop constantly bleeds into the first loop and you hear it throughout the song. No one would prerecord that
that's interesting. I guess she would have to press play right on the downbeat of a separate metronome that is programmed to be the same tempo of the session. and give her self some bars before she has to play
Ollie B it’s really super simple - all she has to do is start the sequence just like I do in the clip. The first couple of bars can be a metronome as part of the sequence, and then the looping starts. Once she records the drums, the metronome isn’t even necessary
wait, so you're saying she actually had to time her walk from the drums to the bass to be exactly x bars because the recording start/stop are pre-determined? I thought it would have been some super fancy edge triggered mechanism.
Not only that, but she did it after 3 bars which makes me super uncomfortable because that either means the bass loop point is halfway through the drums or she started the drum beat halfway through the loop! I mean it’s amazing but as a performer it stresses me out!
The biggest drawback to method 2 is that, as far as I've been able to tell, you have to have the audio monitor turned on for Looper to get any input. Which really sucks if you're trying to keep stuff in perfect time (like you'd want with looping). Monitoring is best done through your audio interface for the lowest possible latency.
Awesome video! Any chance you have the download and Authorization key for ZenAudio ALK?! I know the company closed a few years back and stopped selling it. I haven't been able to find it anywhere online. Currently using Ableton and Push 2. Would love to try out the ZenAudio. Thanks!
Hey bro, lil late but I found your video today, and it helped so much, so I made the timestamp for ya :V just put this in your description 👇 Timestamp: 00:00 Intro 00:35 Demo session 01:40 Method #1 (ZenAudio ALK) 03:35 Step-by-step 06:15 Method #2 (Abelton) 08:50 Method #3 (Abelton IAC) 13:45 Demo + Sequence
I bought Zenaud.io based on this video, and it was great. The only real drawback was that you needed to already be versed in VST and Audio Units, as well as bring your own, to really use it. Sadly they have since gone out of business.
Hello, In the second way, 8:13 there is a button for quantization of looper which was set to "global" in your video. Is it not quantizing al all? By the way thanks for your very detailed instructions and your calming voice.
Would you be willing to share any tips on possible undo/redo midi mapping ideas for guitar audio looping in Ableton live? It's the only function iv not worked out yet! Iv got enough midi device options to use as triggers, just not sure of a command I can assign that will undo/redo as a hardware loop station would do. Thank you in advance.
This was great! I'm going to use method #2. I'm currently running my live set in session view, so I've been thinking about using ClyphX to trigger automation for the looper (which it doesn't do, to my knowledge). Maybe I'll have to run my songs through arrangement view. Thanks so much - a whole new world just opened for me!
Wow. Thank you very much! Too bad I havent found this earlier... gotta think about how much spirit of „traditional looping“ is still in there, but great that these options exist!
Yes, this seems to me to be more like pre-programmed multi-track recording rather that what I think of as 'live looping' but it's amazing what these musicians are doing. And I'm going to have fun giving it a go :-)
why do you leave both audio tracks armed from the beginning instead of automating that as well? would you recommend automating the arming the tracks as well? especially if you are making a more complicated arrangement?
I use option 3 not for live looping but in order to arm/disarm tracks at various points in a live show so that I can control multiple synths in ableton from just one control keyboard. Kinda fiddly to set up, but it works.
My God I’ve been dreaming of this for so long and saw a complex method years ago but never expected it to be made so easy! Thanks for this awesome video. The other part I dreamed of ten years ago was to apply groove quantisation to parts and even tweak the quantisation in real time using a knob controller. Can this be done now or just the straight quantisation you mentioned? To record a percussion part and then quantise it into a John Bonham groove in front of an audience would be unreal.
Thanks ;) It depends if you’re taking about zen audio or live. For zen audio, no, but email then, who knows... for live, it’s just like anything else - if you can to it in live, you can include it here. I’m sure there’s a groove/swing plugin somewhere (which would also then most likely work on zen audio tracks)
Thought we'd chime in -- so currently you can't quantize to a groove in ALK; only to your standard 1/4, 1/8, .., 1/6 (triplets), etc. The usual. However, one thing we do differently is that you CAN assign a knob to it and alter it in realtime. The reason is that in ALK, quantization is not a function -- you don't quantize the notes once to the grid and then they're moved. Instead, the original position of the notes is stored, and we shift the notes in an online fashion according to the current value of quantization amount, which of course can be automated. This allows you to start a song with a fairly loose groove, and then tighten everything as more elements are introduced. Please note that this also currently only works for MIDI, unfortunately, though we certainly plan to have extend our audio warping code to handle that. Hope this helps :)
It's definitely planned, but it's not going happen right away, I'm afraid. We want to spend some more time on Mac honing the product and really nailing the feature set before moving to other platforms.
Third method seems best, to be honest - it's more intuitive for anyone who has used (or seen) an APC/Launchpad/Push controller. It's like sequencing the button presses so you don't have to have hands on it! Also, I haven't tried it yet, but I imagine you could use a hardware sequencer to control Ableton Live and treat it like a loop-pedal (instead of a DAW). I am going to test this with my Digitakt today!
Jamie you know, I understand where you’re coming from, liking method 3 if you’re used to session view but live looping this way is really more like sequencing/arrangement than the improvisational grid based sessions imho, but if it works for you, great! And yeah hardware should work too!
Programming Ableton to control itself could be tough for some people to wrap their head around, sure. But using an external sequencer (another DAW or hardware, mpc, etc) and that thing controls synths, and Ableton is just another "midi module" in the rack. At least that's how I looked at it when I tested :) Yes, it does work very well. Problem with Digitakt is that the note comes back around and hit's "play" again, even if you stop that clip. The sequencer is too short (no song mode...)
Yes, USB or MIDI both work. What I meant is you can't have it record a loop, play for 8 bars, stop, and record a new loop, etc. Oh, maybe with pattern chaining? That's gonna be a little nuts. And MPC would be much easier to turn Ableton into something like the first method. I bet it would work with a hardware looper pedal too (RC-505?)
i like the nethod 2 but it has some limitation, since you are using the play button and not the recording button, everything is gone once you hit the stop button, also as mentioned above , when you are working with multiple armed tracks at once you cant turn off the monitoring otherwise the looper won't record anything
I've been trying to use ALK for about a month now and find it almost unusable because it crashes when you pull in more than three VSTs. Do you have any advice for routing that might help?
At 11:02 you switched to Arrangement View then double clicked on measure 1 then a Place for you to put midi notes just appeared on the bottom portion of the screen how did you do that mine does not do that.
What's cool is if you have an Arturia key step like that, or even an op-1 or any other midi controller with a sequencer built in - then you can do the IAC driver method without any automation. (The sequence is run from the same keyboard you are controlling with) :D
Would you have a video it doesn't need to be yours) or a quick explanation in how to do it? Looks now we have plenty of options to MC with built in sequencer. Any of them would work? Thanks.
@@fabiofazmusica I don't actually know if there is a video on doing it that way or not. I will make one though on my other channel @synthshapes. I think the nice thing about doing it the way I'm talking about, is it eliminates the need to do all that loopback/IAC driver confusion because you're just using a sequencer to control it (have it tempo synced to your project) instead of having to "connect your DAW to itself" through software. Which in my experience also can cause latency and other annoying issues.
ZenAudio looks so simple and interesting to use compared to the other methods. It's available for PC too. I'm going to play with the demo version over the weekend.
@jekennedy108 Good to know, thank you. The demo worked out well for me for home use but if I was to use it live I'd be far more concerned with the bugs. I decided not to use it anyway as I'm currently leaning towards live hardware looping.
Yo I need help so bad lol I been looping with hardware loopers for years, rn i use headrush looper board, im finnaly trying to shift to ableton, but I find it to be so much more complex. Where do I even start lol
Very useful video! I only have a question for Ableton automation method: How do you switch between projects without closing the current one? I mean, in a live show, what you want to do is to play multiple songs and for example, looping automation is set for one song specifically. How can we switch between songs in a fast way?
I don’t think there’s a way to switch a project without closing the current one, but you might try putting different songs in different places on the arrangement timeline and use markers to job between them. Not perfect, but works
Well, actually, for the moment it ONLY works with windows, which is quite ironic... I'll have to go for 2nd method, I guess, unless there exist a substitute for ALK which is still maintained.
Thanks a lot for this great video 😀👍 I was curious about one thing: If I'm not mistaken it doesn't seem like this method leaves much room for improvisation ? + what happens if you make a mistake ? Thanks for your time.
Thanks - generally speaking you’re right, but there are ways around this. You can set loop points and jump around to improvisation points with methods 1 and 3. I think that when we’re on our own improvisation is fun but when an audience is watching their preference is for a song that moves along, develops and is dynamic - with the performer’s attention on performing rather than operating a looper, not to mention that the options with manual operation are much more limited. ALK2 has panic functions for mistakes. But yes, generally speaking these methods indeed have a rigid structure.
Thanks a lot! Nice hearing from you. I'm used to using a Boss RC20 pedal playing mostly live and I do a lot of it on the fly. This is another level. I think what I'm trying to say, is that it seems that with this method and this software, if I'm not mistaken, you need to know the structure of the song in advance don't you? Elise Trow sounds great don't get me wrong, and she is very talented, but she is basically recording live something she composed before hand and knows what part to play when, right ? Thanks again for your time and for your tips.
Thanks for the video. Pretty clear and well delivered. Btw, anybody knows if the ZenAudio ALK is back available? Any new versions or did they just simply disappear from earth?
my big question about all this though is LATENCY. I get about 8 - 10ms of latency, which means when i record though audio (like how she does with drums or bass or guitar or vocals) i get a delay when looping so each time i lay down a loop it gets more and more out of time
Excellent! Just Checked out Zen Audio and they have PC version for windows 8. My question is : is it possible to route (separately if possible ) this tracks intro my DAW for multitrack recording ? As in my case not everything will be about looping, some drum machines and synths going as well Thanks for sharing !
Hey Ziv, thanks for the good work! So I can't do method 1 since using Ableton (Mac), can't do method 2 since I'm using Ableton Live 9 and that automation button is not where yours is and I can follow method 3 and all the steps you demonstrate, but by no means I understand how you would go from there to walk around from instrument to instrument and having it all looped and played back in a seamless way. Would love the help. Thanks again!
Thanks for the kind words - I'm not familiar with Live 9 but I'm sure you can do automation on it - keep looking! Sorry more than that is beyond the scope of the comment section and I don't offer 1x1 lessons/support
I am looking for a method to do this without a computer. Throw in some eurorack, some jamman looping pedal, whatever. Playing drums keeps your hands and legs busy so you can't press any other button, so you cannot set the length of the loop. Hence the difficulty to "automatic loop" like the lady on drums. The loop on a looper pedal must be triggered and stopped. Any ideas?
When you click on your MIDI track #1 at 11:04 you get a screen that allows you to subsequently place midi commands in and I can’t get that to pop up on my view in Ableton 9. You don’t seem to have anything else on the track other than the looper so I’m wondering how you got that to happen?
Hey, thanks for the time stamp link ;) hmmm I was using Ableton 9 at the time, so it should work. That's really off. Are you sure you *double clicked*? If that doesn't work for you then I don't know... perhaps just copy a MIDI clip from somewhere else and place it on the arranger?
First off thanks for this wonderful content! For live looping you prefer this over the looper pedal? Also please, which midi controller/virtual keyboard is this? Looks amazing, I mean the screen one. Thanks Loopop!
Thanks for the kind words! I prefer a pedal to this for "regular" live looping, but for arranged live looping, nothing beats Ableton Live and the technique I show here. The little synth is an organelle.
First of all, this video is outstanding!QUESTION: At 7:13 you click on the record button on the right side of the track. However, I have set up two tracks to record and loop at different times. It seems the only way I can trigger the second track to record is by manually clicking on it when the first track is complete. Is there a step I am missing that will automatically engage the second track? I would rather not use the last method. Thanks again for a GREAT video!
Hi loopop , I figured Id ask you this question since your pretty much the go to guy for hardware and software knowledge or at least from all the vids of yours I've seen. I was wondering if you could tell me which DAWs have a loop recording mode that will live record different length loop tracks and sync them together ? I know Abelton has that option but I'm trying to find cheaper DAWs that can do that . I think maybe Reaper but I'm not sure. My Deluge does that but unfortunately the used one I got off ebay has a bad DC power input so Im returning that one and while I think the Deluge is pretty fun Im now leaning towards DAWs just for the quickness of clicking a mouse and having a better view of whats going on with out having to memorize button push and knob twist menu combos . I also have a hard to finding samples on the Deluge , which looks pretty straightforward to do on DAWs . I did see a looper software called LiveLoop Lite , that looks like it can do that type of loop recording but I cant verify for sure it actually does. Thanks
I was wondering if there is a way that after recording a track in session view ableton can automatically change to the next track to start recording the next layer of the song
Thanks! What i did not get is, why ableton is not working without the iac driver. it should be the same if a track gets the note from a keyboard or another track inside hm, do you know why?
I'm new to midi instruments but WTF kind of keyboard controller is that? You can slide notes like a guitar? I must have this! Also working on drums now. Picked a an Akai LPD8 but havent found a drum vst that works with it natively yet. What are you using there for programming drums? Guitar Rig is awesome, that I am farmiliar with. Up to now I have only recorded guitar and bass, using "Drumkit From Hell" pre programmed loops. Really struggling with drums.
Thanks! Sure - in both methods they are quantized. This trick really does anything Ableton does, it just pushes buttons for you via midi or automation. Everything else stays the same
Awesome video! Just have one issue with Ableton I can't fix, I don't want to hear myself while recording the loop, only after I've recorded it and I can't find an answer for this anywhere at the moment, pls help.
Get ALL my tips in one convenient place: Check out my In-Complete Book of Electronic Music Ideas, Tips and Tricks: patreon.com/loopop
UPDATE: Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live. Unfortunately Zen Audio have stopped selling their ALK software. However, please do watch through that part, as I later explain how to get similar results with Ableton Live. Also, check out Nabla Looper for Reaper - I've not tried it, but it's worth a shot if you don't own live: th-cam.com/video/LmMO4KhsxLI/w-d-xo.html
Hi there, I have ZenAudio already, but I'm finding a bunch of issues with it, and now there's no support I don't know how to troubleshoot them. Would you recommend just ditching it and going with Ableton?
@@kirstylouise why not try? Ableton has a 90 day trial going on now
@@loopop I already have Ableton, I found out about Zenaudio and got excited because it’s a lot simpler and to the point for this. It’s disappointing they’re winding it down, I would like to keep using it but I’m not sure it’s worth the time investment if it’s going to have issues that won’t be fixed or supported.
@@kirstylouise indeed disappointing - there’s a reason I put them first, however, in light of how operating system updates tend to break unsupported software, ALK probably wouldn’t be a good long term bet (just like Ableton Live 8 or 9...)
@@loopop oh... I have Ableton 9... it’s not supported in Catalina? I’m about to upgrade my computer
Thanks for this. My entire Twitch performance has been built using method 3 from this video, and I want to say a huge thank you to @loopop for this brilliant video. It does take time to sequence the looping, but the benefit is a stable looping environment where you can focus on the performance and forget about pedals! I also use a ‘cue track’ where I tell myself what to play next (and remind myself of the lyrics). The possibilities are endless!
I have been wondering about how this works for a long time, and I feel lucky to have found this video. Excellent description of these methods. Thank you!
Best video on looping ever!!
@RickySweum, well we did cover this in class way back in 2016 ;-) Lesson 5, I believe. Ableton's Looper is certainly the easiest, it works just like a looping guitar pedal, only better (more features). But with the an IAC bus control you can map out a much more complicated live looping performance, including loops of different lengths and changes in your arrangement, such as muting a loop after you've recorded it and then bringing it back in all hands free. The downside is that you need to follow along with your mapped out game plan or you can easily end up lost. It's really the most powerful and flexible technique but it certainly requires a lot more planning and rehearsal, versus just looping away with Looper.
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.th-cam.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/w-d-xo.html
ZenAud.io - Now available for Windows PC!! Thank you for this simple explanation.
Well it is available for Windows, but it doesn't work on my Win10 64 Pro because the ASIO4ALL drivers crash my BEHRINGER drivers. I need a Mac.
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.th-cam.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/w-d-xo.html
@@JDNicoll $150 for just that?
@@jt9800 It's $129 for the package of three devices. Audio or midi alone is $60. tinyurl.com/yatxbm9f
If you loop instruments, it's indispensable. If not, maybe not needed.
Zenaudio is now officially dead. Just 5 months later. :(
Great video for multiple approaches!
I'd like to add that for the IAC approach you can get away with doing it without an external midi controller for mapping. Kind of a hack I used when I was away from a midi controller.
1. Create a midi clip on a new midi track with a single instance of the CC or note you want to use. Set midi output to IAC.
2. Play the clip.
3. Stop the transport (not the clip.) The clip should still have a green play arrow that is paused.
4. Turn on midi map mode and click on the parameter you want to map.
5. Press spacebar to start the transport. The clip starts playing with the midi CC or note. It should map to the selected parameter.
6. Hit spacebar again to stop the transport.
7. Leave midi map mode and delete midi clip (or just change value for next mapping and repeat.) Your parameter should now be mapped to that midi CC or note.
As someone who also teaches music technology I really value your videos! Thanks!
Thanks for your comment!
I’ve spent the whole day trying to figure this out via experimenting and watching videos. This video was definitely the most clear! Thank you
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.th-cam.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/w-d-xo.html
Singlehandedly the most useful looping video I have seen to date! Thanks!
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.th-cam.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/w-d-xo.html
dude you have helped me a ton. Not just this video, your videos are just incredibly helpful. Thank you.
Whoa this totally blew my mind. I have been trying to wrap my mind around how she did that for a long time and you solved it in a 15 minute video. Great stuff!
What a feat of technical wizardry to achieve a smooth flow in a process like this with pre determined record, play, loop and stop processes.
I just saw Elise Trouw for the first time minutes ago and had to do some research which is how I got here! Thanks!!
wow so a bunch of these "live loop performances" are actually so intricately planned out with all the instruments, loop lengths, pre-amps/fx pre set up in the daw! never realized
I always wonder if it's cheating...I like to use it with a drum track and sequenced looping and I feel kind of guilty haha. I don't like backing tracks but I think this is a decent compromise for a solo performer.
That ALK Zen Audio looper is pretty great. Works as advertised and has been super easy to stay in the box and make music. Finding it hard to record and arrange on the fly, that software makes it seamless.
This is literally EXACTLY what I was searching for. Thank you for this awesome and very helpful video!
Auto punch out for Ableton: m.th-cam.com/video/XJCLVWmfOd0/w-d-xo.html
i dont have that automation option and i also dont have that looper ableton plugin
It doesn’t exist in all version of Live. Check out the Melda looper as an alternative
The technical side os great but more importantly you have told us how to create a very convincing renditio of Feel it Still with just a bass, a drum, and a lead. Thank you!
Thank you so much for this tutorial! I'm getting into live looping after a while of wanting to do so. I already know how to play piano and electric guitar, but I'm still learning about live looping. Thanks again! I'll check out the rest of your videos.
Hi! Awesome video, I am thinking of going with a Boss RC 202, DAW methods feel a little shaky to me :(.
What is the blue box you are using for percussions? I am looking for standalone synth and percussion hardware.
It’s called Organelle
Elin how are you getting on with your Boss? I have the RC505 and feel the same! Especially for performing live, this software feels so foreign to completely change to... tempting to try tho!
@@danielawilliams7911 I do not still have it in my hands. I am getting an RC30 btw.
Thanks a lot for posting this. I'm so over all the commenters basicly calling Elise a liar when she says in her video descriptions that they are done live in one take. Not that she doesn't reherse but she DOES do the finished vid live.
RADThird1 thanks and yeah - if you need proof check out her jimmy kimmel performance - the clapping at the beginning of the first loop constantly bleeds into the first loop and you hear it throughout the song. No one would prerecord that
how come you never hear a metronome in her videos or live performances?
Ollie B I don’t know this first hand but there’s a little earpiece in her ear so my guess is it’s there.
that's interesting. I guess she would have to press play right on the downbeat of a separate metronome that is programmed to be the same tempo of the session. and give her self some bars before she has to play
Ollie B it’s really super simple - all she has to do is start the sequence just like I do in the clip. The first couple of bars can be a metronome as part of the sequence, and then the looping starts. Once she records the drums, the metronome isn’t even necessary
wait, so you're saying she actually had to time her walk from the drums to the bass to be exactly x bars because the recording start/stop are pre-determined? I thought it would have been some super fancy edge triggered mechanism.
She shuffled ;)
Not only that, but she did it after 3 bars which makes me super uncomfortable because that either means the bass loop point is halfway through the drums or she started the drum beat halfway through the loop! I mean it’s amazing but as a performer it stresses me out!
Some of the most useful minutes I ever spent on youtube, thanks a lot for this!
The biggest drawback to method 2 is that, as far as I've been able to tell, you have to have the audio monitor turned on for Looper to get any input. Which really sucks if you're trying to keep stuff in perfect time (like you'd want with looping). Monitoring is best done through your audio interface for the lowest possible latency.
OMG im so thankful i ran into this video!
LOVE IT! thank you for explaining so quickly, clearly, and simply :)
This was helpful. Thanks. You may want to note that Ableton Looper does not actually loop MIDI, but the audio output of a MIDI instrument.
dude that thing in the beginning is beautiful
Awesome video! Any chance you have the download and Authorization key for ZenAudio ALK?! I know the company closed a few years back and stopped selling it. I haven't been able to find it anywhere online. Currently using Ableton and Push 2. Would love to try out the ZenAudio. Thanks!
Thanks! No I don't but you should be able to get to very similar results with Live using "method 2" in the video
@@loopop Yeah Ableton and Push 2 are awesome. Thanks for the reply! Best wishes!
Hey bro, lil late but I found your video today, and it helped so much, so I made the timestamp for ya :V just put this in your description 👇
Timestamp:
00:00 Intro
00:35 Demo session
01:40 Method #1 (ZenAudio ALK)
03:35 Step-by-step
06:15 Method #2 (Abelton)
08:50 Method #3 (Abelton IAC)
13:45 Demo + Sequence
there seems to be an ALK2 for windows from Zen Audio. nice video easy to understand.
Thank you soooo much! This is what I’ve been looking for for a longtime. Really helpful!!
Just saying ... thank you so much for this video... I've been struggling for quite a long time...your a lifesaver ..
You’re welcome my pleasure ;)
I bought Zenaud.io based on this video, and it was great. The only real drawback was that you needed to already be versed in VST and Audio Units, as well as bring your own, to really use it.
Sadly they have since gone out of business.
Hello, In the second way, 8:13 there is a button for quantization of looper which was set to "global" in your video. Is it not quantizing al all? By the way thanks for your very detailed instructions and your calming voice.
Shame ALK2 from Zen Audio is no longer available as it looked great here.
Would you be willing to share any tips on possible undo/redo midi mapping ideas for guitar audio looping in Ableton live? It's the only function iv not worked out yet!
Iv got enough midi device options to use as triggers, just not sure of a command I can assign that will undo/redo as a hardware loop station would do. Thank you in advance.
Your best bet would be the use Ableton’s audio looper device or a third party one like the one Melda make
Unreal man, thank you so much! So hard to find a succinct tutorial for these techniques.
This was great! I'm going to use method #2. I'm currently running my live set in session view, so I've been thinking about using ClyphX to trigger automation for the looper (which it doesn't do, to my knowledge). Maybe I'll have to run my songs through arrangement view. Thanks so much - a whole new world just opened for me!
Yeaaaaaaaahhhh method 2 is what I was looking for for ages 🙏🏻😍 thank you so much
been looking for a simple looping video for ableton this works great thanks.
Wow. Thank you very much! Too bad I havent found this earlier... gotta think about how much spirit of „traditional looping“ is still in there, but great that these options exist!
Yes, this seems to me to be more like pre-programmed multi-track recording rather that what I think of as 'live looping' but it's amazing what these musicians are doing. And I'm going to have fun giving it a go :-)
this is an eye opener ...thank you so much.
Do you know if is possible to program live loop on Logic Pro X like you show?
why do you leave both audio tracks armed from the beginning instead of automating that as well? would you recommend automating the arming the tracks as well? especially if you are making a more complicated arrangement?
I use option 3 not for live looping but in order to arm/disarm tracks at various points in a live show so that I can control multiple synths in ableton from just one control keyboard. Kinda fiddly to set up, but it works.
You should make a new video of this topic with the new pre arranger max for live plugin. seems so smooth
My God I’ve been dreaming of this for so long and saw a complex method years ago but never expected it to be made so easy! Thanks for this awesome video. The other part I dreamed of ten years ago was to apply groove quantisation to parts and even tweak the quantisation in real time using a knob controller. Can this be done now or just the straight quantisation you mentioned? To record a percussion part and then quantise it into a John Bonham groove in front of an audience would be unreal.
Thanks ;) It depends if you’re taking about zen audio or live. For zen audio, no, but email then, who knows... for live, it’s just like anything else - if you can to it in live, you can include it here. I’m sure there’s a groove/swing plugin somewhere (which would also then most likely work on zen audio tracks)
Thought we'd chime in -- so currently you can't quantize to a groove in ALK; only to your standard 1/4, 1/8, .., 1/6 (triplets), etc. The usual. However, one thing we do differently is that you CAN assign a knob to it and alter it in realtime. The reason is that in ALK, quantization is not a function -- you don't quantize the notes once to the grid and then they're moved. Instead, the original position of the notes is stored, and we shift the notes in an online fashion according to the current value of quantization amount, which of course can be automated. This allows you to start a song with a fairly loose groove, and then tighten everything as more elements are introduced. Please note that this also currently only works for MIDI, unfortunately, though we certainly plan to have extend our audio warping code to handle that. Hope this helps :)
+ZenAud.io , What about a windows version of ALK. Plleeeaaassseeee.
It's definitely planned, but it's not going happen right away, I'm afraid. We want to spend some more time on Mac honing the product and really nailing the feature set before moving to other platforms.
I love you bro. Awesome and simple explanation!
Third method seems best, to be honest - it's more intuitive for anyone who has used (or seen) an APC/Launchpad/Push controller. It's like sequencing the button presses so you don't have to have hands on it!
Also, I haven't tried it yet, but I imagine you could use a hardware sequencer to control Ableton Live and treat it like a loop-pedal (instead of a DAW). I am going to test this with my Digitakt today!
Jamie you know, I understand where you’re coming from, liking method 3 if you’re used to session view but live looping this way is really more like sequencing/arrangement than the improvisational grid based sessions imho, but if it works for you, great! And yeah hardware should work too!
Programming Ableton to control itself could be tough for some people to wrap their head around, sure. But using an external sequencer (another DAW or hardware, mpc, etc) and that thing controls synths, and Ableton is just another "midi module" in the rack. At least that's how I looked at it when I tested :)
Yes, it does work very well. Problem with Digitakt is that the note comes back around and hit's "play" again, even if you stop that clip. The sequencer is too short (no song mode...)
Yes, USB or MIDI both work.
What I meant is you can't have it record a loop, play for 8 bars, stop, and record a new loop, etc.
Oh, maybe with pattern chaining? That's gonna be a little nuts. And MPC would be much easier to turn Ableton into something like the first method. I bet it would work with a hardware looper pedal too (RC-505?)
Thanks so much! Not sure why anyone wouldn't just use method 2!
Method one is more tailored, but compared to 3 for sure
i like the nethod 2 but it has some limitation, since you are using the play button and not the recording button, everything is gone once you hit the stop button, also as mentioned above , when you are working with multiple armed tracks at once you cant turn off the monitoring otherwise the looper won't record anything
Mind blown! Thanks loopop! Gonna use this asap
Extremely useful. Would love to see if/how this could be done with an iPad too.
qwe1231 hopefully ZenAudio will come out with an iOS version... though with clever midi loopback it might be possible
qwe1231 touchable pro...
I've been trying to use ALK for about a month now and find it almost unusable because it crashes when you pull in more than three VSTs. Do you have any advice for routing that might help?
At 11:02 you switched to Arrangement View then double clicked on measure 1 then a Place for you to put midi notes just appeared on the bottom portion of the screen how did you do that mine does not do that.
Method 2!!! So stupid simple.. How I didn't thought about it? Awesome video 👍 👏👏 thanks!
Excellent video. Thanks for taking the time to explain it
Super well explained...thank you
What's cool is if you have an Arturia key step like that, or even an op-1 or any other midi controller with a sequencer built in - then you can do the IAC driver method without any automation. (The sequence is run from the same keyboard you are controlling with) :D
True
Would you have a video it doesn't need to be yours) or a quick explanation in how to do it? Looks now we have plenty of options to MC with built in sequencer. Any of them would work? Thanks.
@@fabiofazmusica I don't actually know if there is a video on doing it that way or not. I will make one though on my other channel @synthshapes. I think the nice thing about doing it the way I'm talking about, is it eliminates the need to do all that loopback/IAC driver confusion because you're just using a sequencer to control it (have it tempo synced to your project) instead of having to "connect your DAW to itself" through software. Which in my experience also can cause latency and other annoying issues.
@@brodiecole8856 thanks man! Looking forward to watch your video. Meanwhile ill buy a Midi controller - sequencer - keyboard.
much apreciated man, thanks
ZenAudio looks so simple and interesting to use compared to the other methods. It's available for PC too. I'm going to play with the demo version over the weekend.
@jekennedy108 Good to know, thank you. The demo worked out well for me for home use but if I was to use it live I'd be far more concerned with the bugs. I decided not to use it anyway as I'm currently leaning towards live hardware looping.
Yo I need help so bad lol
I been looping with hardware loopers for years, rn i use headrush looper board, im finnaly trying to shift to ableton, but I find it to be so much more complex. Where do I even start lol
ZOMG! You are our new best friend!
Live Loopers where have you been all my life!
Was just about to ask the same thing. Just added your channel to our featured channels.
Very useful video! I only have a question for Ableton automation method: How do you switch between projects without closing the current one? I mean, in a live show, what you want to do is to play multiple songs and for example, looping automation is set for one song specifically. How can we switch between songs in a fast way?
I don’t think there’s a way to switch a project without closing the current one, but you might try putting different songs in different places on the arrangement timeline and use markers to job between them. Not perfect, but works
@@loopop Thank you!
the owner of Zen Audio released his program for free use just last week, and it's available for windows now too, so thats pretty cool news..
Well, actually, for the moment it ONLY works with windows, which is quite ironic... I'll have to go for 2nd method, I guess, unless there exist a substitute for ALK which is still maintained.
at 6:57 ..when I want to place the in and outs, it's not snapping exactly on the bar as in your case. Are you pressing an additional button?
zenaudio's site is down. Any way to get the installer?
Thanks a lot for this great video 😀👍 I was curious about one thing: If I'm not mistaken it doesn't seem like this method leaves much room for improvisation ? + what happens if you make a mistake ? Thanks for your time.
Thanks - generally speaking you’re right, but there are ways around this. You can set loop points and jump around to improvisation points with methods 1 and 3. I think that when we’re on our own improvisation is fun but when an audience is watching their preference is for a song that moves along, develops and is dynamic - with the performer’s attention on performing rather than operating a looper, not to mention that the options with manual operation are much more limited. ALK2 has panic functions for mistakes. But yes, generally speaking these methods indeed have a rigid structure.
Thanks a lot! Nice hearing from you. I'm used to using a Boss RC20 pedal playing mostly live and I do a lot of it on the fly. This is another level. I think what I'm trying to say, is that it seems that with this method and this software, if I'm not mistaken, you need to know the structure of the song in advance don't you? Elise Trow sounds great don't get me wrong, and she is very talented, but she is basically recording live something she composed before hand and knows what part to play when, right ? Thanks again for your time and for your tips.
Yes absolutely you are right
Thanks for the video. Pretty clear and well delivered. Btw, anybody knows if the ZenAudio ALK is back available? Any new versions or did they just simply disappear from earth?
my big question about all this though is LATENCY. I get about 8 - 10ms of latency, which means when i record though audio (like how she does with drums or bass or guitar or vocals) i get a delay when looping so each time i lay down a loop it gets more and more out of time
Excellent! Just Checked out Zen Audio and they have PC version for windows 8.
My question is : is it possible to route (separately if possible ) this tracks intro my DAW for multitrack recording ?
As in my case not everything will be about looping, some drum machines and synths going as well
Thanks for sharing !
I don’t know. Please ask them and if you remember leave a comment here ;)
this is so nice in method 2 how do you record the live looping. if you push the record button then hit play will try to loop again
Whats the name of your keyboard and drum synth?? Theyre so cool
Organelle and Continuum
Great tutorial. It's a shame that ALK2 is no longer being developed. Is there a way to do this with Logic Pro?
Thanks! Probably, but I haven't tried
I have a pedal board for my guitar and It wont pick it up in sound all it says is Asio4all?I clicked all of them no sound comes from any of them...
Awesome video! Thank you!
what is the name of this touching piano from 5:44 min?
Continuum by Haken Audio
@@loopop thanks, i will check Google :)
I love the video, but I don't see enable automation (6:48). What am I missing? Thanks in advance...
Mark Quinn it’s right where I clicked it. Maybe your on a version of Live before 10? I don’t remember how to turn it on there :(
Thank your for tips! Can you type the name of trainer that you recommend for Ableton?
Thank you!!! Great video!
Heyho thanks for the nice tutorial !! I am wondering if anyone knows what this keyboard like Instrument is called ??
Hey Ziv, thanks for the good work! So I can't do method 1 since using Ableton (Mac), can't do method 2 since I'm using Ableton Live 9 and that automation button is not where yours is and I can follow method 3 and all the steps you demonstrate, but by no means I understand how you would go from there to walk around from instrument to instrument and having it all looped and played back in a seamless way. Would love the help. Thanks again!
Thanks for the kind words - I'm not familiar with Live 9 but I'm sure you can do automation on it - keep looking! Sorry more than that is beyond the scope of the comment section and I don't offer 1x1 lessons/support
@@loopop Thank you for answering!
Great vid, learned new techniques. What are the instruments, controllers you're using?
What kind/brand of drum sequencer is that?
It’s called Organelle- though here it’s used as a simple midi controller
I am looking for a method to do this without a computer. Throw in some eurorack, some jamman looping pedal, whatever.
Playing drums keeps your hands and legs busy so you can't press any other button, so you cannot set the length of the loop.
Hence the difficulty to "automatic loop" like the lady on drums. The loop on a looper pedal must be triggered and stopped.
Any ideas?
Sounds doable with a looper that accepts MIDI or CV
When you click on your MIDI track #1 at 11:04 you get a screen that allows you to subsequently place midi commands in and I can’t get that to pop up on my view in Ableton 9. You don’t seem to have anything else on the track other than the looper so I’m wondering how you got that to happen?
Hey, thanks for the time stamp link ;) hmmm I was using Ableton 9 at the time, so it should work. That's really off. Are you sure you *double clicked*? If that doesn't work for you then I don't know... perhaps just copy a MIDI clip from somewhere else and place it on the arranger?
First off thanks for this wonderful content! For live looping you prefer this over the looper pedal? Also please, which midi controller/virtual keyboard is this? Looks amazing, I mean the screen one. Thanks Loopop!
Thanks for the kind words! I prefer a pedal to this for "regular" live looping, but for arranged live looping, nothing beats Ableton Live and the technique I show here. The little synth is an organelle.
Awesome, thanks a lot!
First of all, this video is outstanding!QUESTION: At 7:13 you click on the record button on the right side of the track. However, I have set up two tracks to record and loop at different times. It seems the only way I can trigger the second track to record is by manually clicking on it when the first track is complete. Is there a step I am missing that will automatically engage the second track? I would rather not use the last method.
Thanks again for a GREAT video!
Thanks - sorry I can't troubleshoot individual issues but what I show works - automation of the looper takes care of recording
Great video man! I just not tried the first option. I agree with you, the last one is the best one.
Hi loopop , I figured Id ask you this question since your pretty much the go to guy for hardware and software knowledge or at least from all the vids of yours I've seen. I was wondering if you could tell me which DAWs have a loop recording mode that will live record different length loop tracks and sync them together ? I know Abelton has that option but I'm trying to find cheaper DAWs that can do that . I think maybe Reaper but I'm not sure. My Deluge does that but unfortunately the used one I got off ebay has a bad DC power input so Im returning that one and while I think the Deluge is pretty fun Im now leaning towards DAWs just for the quickness of clicking a mouse and having a better view of whats going on with out having to memorize button push and knob twist menu combos . I also have a hard to finding samples on the Deluge , which looks pretty straightforward to do on DAWs . I did see a looper software called LiveLoop Lite , that looks like it can do that type of loop recording but I cant verify for sure it actually does. Thanks
Thanks! Check out Bitwig and Logic if you have a Mac
I was wondering if there is a way that after recording a track in session view ableton can automatically change to the next track to start recording the next layer of the song
Thnx for the great video buddy, but can i ask you what's the name of the blue instrument?
I've been looking for it for days
Thanks! It’s called an organelle
Thanks! What i did not get is, why ableton is not working without the iac driver. it should be the same if a track gets the note from a keyboard or another track inside hm, do you know why?
Yes, I show it in the video, because you can't control the user interface with MIDI notes coming from a track, only from an external device.
@@loopop yes, is that a bug or a feature?
A workaround within limitations imposed by the software
@@loopop :-)
This was very helpful. Thanks!
Thanks Loopop.
I'm new to midi instruments but WTF kind of keyboard controller is that? You can slide notes like a guitar? I must have this! Also working on drums now. Picked a an Akai LPD8 but havent found a drum vst that works with it natively yet. What are you using there for programming drums? Guitar Rig is awesome, that I am farmiliar with. Up to now I have only recorded guitar and bass, using "Drumkit From Hell" pre programmed loops. Really struggling with drums.
Shaun Blackman the drums are Spark from Arturia. The red and black instrument is the Haken Continuum - and amazing synth and controller
loopop what's the blue thing with the wood buttons?
An Organelle - there’s a review of it on my channel
how do you even begin to do something like this like what is everything you need
Hits hard considering ALK is free now(but support is discontinued).
Did you get it? Are you a Windows user?
Exceptional video! Is there any way to quantize midi and audio loops as you record them with Ableton automation?
Thanks! Sure - in both methods they are quantized. This trick really does anything Ableton does, it just pushes buttons for you via midi or automation. Everything else stays the same
@@loopop Sorry but I understood that's impossibile to quantize clips with the method 2...
For the 2nd method how do you cut a looped section then enable it again (similar to the bass drop section in the ZenAudio method)
Not sure I understand exactly what you're trying to do, but regardless, the same way you'd do it with a manual looper, just with automation.
Awesome video! Just have one issue with Ableton I can't fix, I don't want to hear myself while recording the loop, only after I've recorded it and I can't find an answer for this anywhere at the moment, pls help.
Thanks! Automate levels