As a "megafan" of the series, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I agree that Secret of Mana is the crown jewel of the series. I'm very excited for Visions of Mana. Thank you for this.
I always found it strange that Secret of Mana is the crown jewel when, imo, it's not even the best. Since you're a "megafan," I wonder if you'll understand when I'll join you to say that Secret of Mana is the "Mega Man 2" of the Mana series.
Legend of Mana is the best for me; the freedom, the stories, the systems (smithy, monsters, golems, etc), the customization, the combat, the music.. God, I LOVE the music in that game, Yoko Shimomura did an excellent job.
Well, I love so much about it. I think the atmosphere is probably the best of all mana games (even Secret of Mana still has the edge at the music). but the combat (and with it the other systems you mentioned) could have been much more meaningful. it inloved almost no strategy and button smashing + 1 or 2 super abilities would just ensure you win every fight. I know this game has an incredibly complex crafting system, but you don't need the reward if every battle is incredible easy. this art style + story combined with the fast battles of Sword of Mana would have been my favourite entry ever.
I agree on the combat, it was a bit mashy/easy. think they could have tweaked combat and mechanics a bit on the remaster, too bad they didn't. Also technically legend is a spin-off title. ☺️
@@sefiryu Yoko Shimomura is a blessing on any project she’s a part of. The mana series, Kingdom Hearts, Super Mario RPG, Parasite Eve, Xenoblade Chronicles, just to name a few that I’ve played. She’s always great.
Legend was beloved probably because you can fully customize everything in the game and it had good plot arcs that were not black and white but gray. So it was not like playing a character or a script but doing what you wanted.
@@SolaceAndDread Yeah legends is not for everyone so I can understand if someone did not like it. The battle system sucked and it had some hiccups but it was my favorite for the full customization and how it was not a cookie-cutter, good vs evil, story.
Final Fantasy Adventure was one of the first games I have ever played, period. And I still remember it fondly for that. But Legend of Mana is my all-time favorite. As another commenter mentioned, the infinitely customizable aspects of the game, the pet system, and even the janky multiplayer mode was fun for the time, as it let me and my best friend join each other's games with our character from our own game. The weapon forging and golem systems could also be surprisingly deep, and you could actually forge weapons that were so stupidly powerful that you could decimate everything. You would also unlock the "Tome of Nightmares" after beating the game the first time, that allowed you to adjust/increase the difficulty for new games, as well as storylines and other stuff that could only be found with certain elemental combinations on your world map, which depended on certain locations being next to others, and it mattered which places you visited in what order to unlock things. I've rambled enough, but there were just so many great things to see and experience, and I thought the replay value of Legend of Mana was great.
@@megsemitinas okay, bringing the characters from your own game is WILD. I didn't even know there was a multiplayer aspect, Crazy how Mana does that lol. How did that work? Code? Memory card?
@@SolaceAndDread in the first town of Termina, there’s a house on the left side where you can knock on the door, and it’ll trigger a prompt to load from memory card, so your friend can put their memory card in slot 2, and it’ll scan the card for save games. Then you can load their character into your game and they can run around and fight with you so long as you dont need a certain NPC for the quest. The downside being that their loadout is locked-in from their save, so they’d have to load their game to make any changes. If I recall, your friend gets to keep any experience earned while they were in your game. All NPCs can have control changed over to a Player 2, but most of them aren’t very good.
I played since Final Fantasy Adventures/Mystic Quest for the Gameboy. It may even have been my first JRPG, or maybe it was Zelda idrcc. Secret of Mana is the most impactful one, I dearly hold to high regards. Trials/SD3 I played only recently as a remake. Legend of Mana was good and also so bad. i am very curious if they can make this one a good JRPG, or even a masterpiece, pre-ordered it, but Idk with Star Wars Outlaws being released the following day, I kinda think I will start VoM and put it aside.... Idk.
My first Mana game was actually a fan translation of Trials of Mana, though I knew it as Seiken Densetsu 3 for a long time before I realized that it was a Mana game. I loved the remake it got a few years ago and played through it more than a few times. I preordered Visions right after playing the demo, I am so excited for it.
Hi, just here to say that your video kinda touched me near the end, definitely made me tear up, your love and adoration for this series is palpable. Niche JRPG games are genuinely where I feel at home most, which is why I feel the ending of your video impacted me in the way it did. With all this said, I haven't played a lot of the Mana games, but me and my girlfriend adored Trials of Mana and I definitely plan to play Secret of Mana at some point. I've already pre ordered Visions of Mana and I genuinely hope that this is a new start for this adorable and insanely charming series. 💖☺️
Thank you for watching! Care to share your favorite jrpg's? (niche or not) please come let me know what you think of Som and Trials when you play them! Thanks for the comment 🙂
@@SolaceAndDread Yeah, for sure man, I will! 😊 Off the top of my head a few of my favorites are Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance, Labyrinth of Refrain, Ys 8, and Ys 9. There's definitely more, but these are what I can think of off the top of my head. 😊
Legend of Mana is just a masterpiece! I love everything on that game since the start of the adventure! The music, the graphics, the colored vibes and all the most silly things are just complete cover with much love. Best of the best and since more than 20 years, is still my favorite game of all time.
@@SolaceAndDread I play the game when I was a little child. And all the atmosphere, the domina city music, and discovering things for me was so magical. Building the world and see the events taking place, raising pets and spending hours on the blacksmith facility was something so eternal and magick for me. The games just give me a lot of good energy and I feel everything so cute and beautiful at the same time. Just give a try and enjoy the adventure!
Thanks for this fantastic video. I’ve already preordered and it’s one of my most anticipated games this year. I wish there was more hype around this game because it looks incredible. I’ve been a fan of the Mana games for most of my life.
I really enjoyed the remake of Secret of Mana. I know a lot of people don't feel that way, but I really appreciated having a version of the game with an updated translation/script that made more sense, as well as graphics that made what the characters were supposed to look like more clear. It was also very faithful to the original's gameplay, with a few quality of life improvements. I wasn't expecting anything revolutionary, and it delivered on what it promised, bugs aside. If I wanted to go back and play Secret of Mana again some time, I'm not sure which version I would go for. I think I might just stick to the remake, unless I really want a hit of nostalgia from the 2D SNES graphics. The remake has a lot of advantages over the SNES original, and even if I want to hear the original music, the remake lets me do that. Still, the Trials of Mana remake blows the Secret remake out of the water. It's a highly superior product. It would have been amazing if Secret of Mana got THAT treatment. Heck, maybe it still can if the series performs well...? I'd buy it.
I have always played Legend of Mana and have been wanting to check out some of the rest of the series, this was a great video to get a feel for what the other games are like and which ones I may prefer over others.
My first foray into the series was Dawn of Mana! I was a ps2-addicted tween and after KH and FFX it was so much fun. I'm going to give this series some much needed attention as an adult. Great video! 😁
This was a great video! Love the Mana series and am hyped for Visions. You might have missed the Legend re-release in your timeline, unless you left it out since it wasn't really anything new.
thank you! and thank you for watching 🙂 I did leave it out for that reason, yes, since it was (near) identical. Still, I should have mentioned it, even if i did leave it off the timeline.
I think the Secret of Mana remake got way too much hate. I remember the second the first trailer dropped there was a snap judgement by a lot of people that turned into a bandwagon effect of everyone pre-deciding it was garbage. Most of the discussion at that time was that it "looked like a phone game" but it literally was just doing a faithful 3D rendering of the original character art f I personally thought it looked amazing. Basically just like the clay models in the original SNES manual. But since people really hated mobile gaming at the time and they thought it looked like their imagining of what a phone game looks like... they just decided it couldn't be any good. Adventures of Mana got the same hate for the same reason and Sword of Mana seems to have gotten a lot of hate for reasons I don't really understand. I literally grew up playing the original on Gameboy and was very excited about Sword and fairly excited about adventures and like the SoM remake I actually loved the look. But once people had decided that the SoM remake was terrible way ahead of the actual release it seemed nobody was allowed to have any positive opinion on it. Honestly, your very balanced take is probably the most "praise" I've ever heard for it. It didn't improve that much about the original, but honestly, the original doesn't hold up that well when you take off the nostalgia glasses. I love it and I love the pixel art, but the original SoM would get absolutely shredded today for so many reasons. I definitely think Trials was a huge upgrade though. I think it was a bit too easy, but I remember when I played SD3 via a translation patch way back when that I thought the back half of the game had a ludicrous difficulty spike that suddenly required a lot of grinding. I think Trials has definitely been my favorite so far though. I was fairly pleased with the Visions demo, but I think it picked a weird slice of the game to plop you in. I strongly suspect the full game will be better because like most mana games you'll slowly get onboarded to the deeper systems rather than just tossed into all of them with 3 characters and little explanation other than an onslaught of text boxes. As excited as I am I definitely won't pre-order and will wait for some reviews, especially with concerns about performance.
I loved reading this on my lunch break. I played through FFA on Gameboy as a kid and just bought SwoM, I am kinda shocked at the hate. I personally think it's much better. I know people think the story gets "in the way" but I like that they tried to flesh out the characters/world a bit.
@1:03 But I DID! 😁 But then again, I've been following this series since Final Fantasy Adventure. Appreciate the Salamando love. He was my favorite since I first met him in Secret of Mana.
While i had only played trials i had known of the exitance of the rest if the games and got the older ones in emulator and played a bit of most of them. So i like to csll mt self a fsn of the series as a whole. You definerly did a good job.
You did an awesome job with the vid. First vid of yours I’ve seen. I’ve subscribed and plan to check out the rest of your channel. The Mana Series is my favorite game series with both versions of Trials of Mana being my favorite (the original being #1 though). And I actually really also enjoy Dawn of Mana for what it did, tried to do, and how it brought the series to life with the cutscenes and characters. It’s funny how you said that being a Star Ocean fan something draws you in with Mana and their focus on gameplay and such. I feel the same way as I’m also a big Star Ocean fan.
Did you play the Fan-translated verison of Trials before the official release in 2019? Did you notice any major script changes? Also thank you for the kind words :-) I'm a Star Ocean super-nerd!! gah I could gush about that series for hours (simultaneously trashing and praising it.)
@@SolaceAndDread I’ve beaten the fan translation probably 20+ times before to try different party set ups and builds and I have the Collection of Mana. However I haven’t done a playthrough of that version yet. I’ve beaten the remake like 3-4 times and given how it was done I imagine it’s the same or similar to the translation for the original game.
Good ole Final Fantasy Adventure. I was always shy about action RPGs but it sucked me in. Later on SOM became one of my all time fave games. Same with FFL/SaGa and Saga Frontier. I’m still trying to finish SF 30 years later 😂 dang remaster
Maybe the hype is not there, because the game is not releasing on Switch. Most of the JRPG audience is there now (specially for games with this type of artstyle). I played Secret, Seiken 3, and Sword like 20 years ago, and loved them! Seiken 3's remake (Trials of Mana) was like a dream come true. Now I have absolutely 0 interest on this new game, because it's not releasing on the console that I have. Pretty sure I'm not alone on this. I think that Visions will sadly share the same fate as Soul Hackers 2. Great retrospective btw. I find out about a bunch of cellphone games I didn't know existed! :D You gained a new sub.
You know, there is some truth to this. The art style and consoles don't mesh well. This would definitely appeal to a Switch audience more. But I do understand why it's not on there. Hopefully it's developed for the switch successor.
Was a fun watch seeing this, especially on some games I have yet to play or didn't know of like some mobile games. But really am excited for Visions of Mana since for once for me it wasn't another mobile game of Mana it's an actual new mainline game in the series after so long. Tho when it comes to the remakes I only got to try Trials and enjoyed that one despite the voice acting, tho I was glad it got received well cause after the secret of mana remake I was wary until they brought collection of mana and I immediately bought that. Finally trying FFA and enjoying that one despite it's limitations and weaknesses, while Secret of Mana... honestly I had more nitpicks with it as I played with magic being so busted compared to regular attacks with odd hit detections, to where I felt I liked Trials/SD3 and even FFA more than that game, until recently playing Co-op with a friend and finally beating SoM it was a fun time despite the jank. That and I did look up the development of SoM originally was gonna be a SNES CD game with Time travel, but plans fell through, 40% of the game was cut including Time travel which that concept got put into Chrono Trigger, and SoM had to work with the limitations of the SNES, which is impressive despite what came around and it's kinda why Trials on SNES was an improvement even that one also has it's odd quirks too. Still have yet to try Dawn of Mana, maybe one day but still I'm genuinely looking forward to Visions soon!!
Dawn is really overhated. I'm playing through it right now, and I'm kind of in love, despite the horrible jank, lol. for every sin the game commits it charms me just as much. if they do a remake of that game they're gonna have their hands FULL, lol. Also loves to read this mana love, thank you for the comment (and watching
I've been thinking about it I think this is visions of mana is going to pull a Dragon Quest 11 on us and rip the rug out from under us cuz Dragon Quest 11 you know they hit you with that generic setup but then they just pull the rug out from under you
I remembered LOVING Seiken Densetsu 3 and then playing Secret of Mana afterwards and not liking it and never touching the series again haha! Visions looks GORGEOUS, so whenever I get a PS5 I will be picking it up (I wasn’t happy with the performance of the demo on the PS4). I’ve recently been playing Final Fantasy Adventure and will be replaying Trials of Mana shortly as well. So I’m definitely in the mood to play more of the series thanks Visions coming out!
@@SolaceAndDread hahaha it’s pretty much for the same reasons you mentioned. I hated waiting to attack in order to do any damage, plus the hit-rate was pretty terrible. Looking forward to playing the Turbo hacked version of the game though. It looks like it takes care of all my issues.
I've been a "fan" of the series since 1993 with Secret of Mana. I was really excited when I saw Visions announced, caught the trailer and was shocked how bad it looked, in my opinion. Characters were dull and lifeless, in that uncanny valley way. Gameplay looked slow, stale and lifeless. I'm glad someone else is excited for it though. Couple of points I'd make: 1. You are absolutely right about Dawn of Mana. Not enough people compare it to Kingdom Hearts. I think that for fans of Secret of Mana, they moved on to Kingdom Hearts when that came out. Kingdom Hearts basically stole all the Mana fans. 2. You are again, absolutely right about Legend of Mana. I got it immediately when it came out, played it, beat it and was left completely numb. For me, I didn't enjoy the ability to "customize" the world. The game made no sense to me, there were absolutely no stakes and when I beat it, felt like it was a waste of time. Granted, I played this game after other "masterpiece" games and couldn't help but compare it to FF6, FF7, Chrono Trigger, Mario RPG, Final Fantasy Tactics, amongst others. 3. For me, Children of Mana and Heroes of Mana had a ton of promise, but were ultimately lacking. I got them both, played them both, but I think got burned out on the whole series. I loved the Sword of Mana remake, though. I thought it was beautifully done and the class system was pretty incredible. 4. I never bought Dawn of Mana. When I first saw it, I was super excited, saw footage and read reviews and didn't bother to get it. It didn't seem to capture the "magic" of Secret of Mana or Seiken Densetsu 3. 5. Square made a fatal mistake, not releasing Seiken Densetsu 3 in the States in any capacity for so long. They could have put it out on Playstation 1 like they did with Final Fantasy 5 or Chrono Trigger for fans who didn't originally get it. I think Seiken Densetsu 3 would have boosted the brand for those people who loved Secret of Mana. Not releasing it at all, they zigged when they should have zagged. Then releasing that much later in the States, it's too little, too late. 6. Mana should not be treated like Final Fantasy (or Zelda, for that matter), in the way that each game is a "reinvention" with no discernable timeline. I think this is also a huge mistake they've made. The games should be connected, in order to get fans invested in all the games to have a complete picture of the storyline. For a lack of a better comparison, I think Mana should be more like Marvel, with a connected universe, rather than like the FF series. 7. I think it's obvious they don't know what to do with this franchise and it's not a top priority enough to be given any kind of real love and care. They know there's an identifiable art style that they can paste on a game and get a certain amount of sales if the game is an action RPG. Put in all the classic elements, the tree, Flammie, etc., and a certain amount of people will buy. But in my opinion, what the franchise really needs, is a "vision" (no pun intended). Someone needs to come in, who understands it, it's potential, where it could go, where it should go, how it could be improved. Hopefully, Visions is that installment. But for me, it doesn't look compelling enough to get reinvested. I think a lot of the "fans" have moved on to other games/franchises.
I loved reading this ❤️ I can answer to #5. According to the creator of the series, back then it would have "cost a fortune" to translate the game with the multiple branching dialogue options and it just wasn't feasible for the budget Mana had, especially since Secret of Mana actually didn't sell as well as they hoped in the US. This is something I should have stated in the video, lol.
@@SolaceAndDread I might pick it up when it drops. I’ve been looking for something new to get into that isn’t Fromsoft related. 😅 I haven’t played a JRPG since tales of Arise.
7:56 The Command Ring and combat systems were somewhat copied over between Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore.. At least, it appears to be on the surface level.. Secret of Evermore also was a SNES game that featured a Command Ring and the scaling percentage damage gauge that forced you to wait between attacks instead of spamming it.. I don't know if the same devs were behind both games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.. I had a lot of fun with Secret of Evermore myself, but only have tiny fragments of memories of having barely played Secret of Mana.. I have not played either since the days the SNES was the latest generation of consoles..
@@Masquerade404 Secret of Evermore was American made but they did directly take the command ring from Mana. Very close in dev cycle. The game came up in my research, lol. I never got to play it as a kid tho
@@SolaceAndDread Ah, good to know.. Also, there is a point later in the video where an ally/enemy is frozen in place while glowing white/blue with a circle around its feet just like how the spells did in Secret of Evermore.. In SoE it happens with one of the healing spells, but since the clip is from SoM, I don't know what spell that is.. I actually have the sound of the healing spell from SoE playing in my head right now..
After LoM the drought set in. It feels like they didn't really know where to go with the Mana series and also didn't quite understand what made Mana special. World of Mana was very hit or miss, mostly misses, like a bunch of jumbled projects and I've never been very keen on mobile games. I understand that there are some good ones and the market is huge, but if that's the only thing a series gets it will fade into obscurity and become a joke. Even mobile spinoffs need a relevant series of mainline games as a foundation. I feel the spell was finally broken when they released the Collection of Mana to test the waters and followed up with the Trials remake. It really feels like Mana is finally out of its slump. That shit took forever though.
I'll tell you why I haven't preordered Visions yet: it isn't on switch 😢 I want this game so badly. I've been playing secret of mana since I was a kid discovering retro games on the earliest days of TH-cam. I own a lot of the franchise physically and would love to buy visions on a Nintendo console... I need to support this game but I don't have and don't want a PS5. The PS4 physical got canned which was my plan. I also don't have a PS4 but i do have Castlevania on that. Which is only bc sotn isnt allowed to come out on Nintendo.
I wish the demo would have started you at the beginning rather than in the middle. I hate when demos start you in the middle and everything feels overwhelming.
@@jordanneal576 I think it also helps sell the game when your progress carries over to the full game from the demo. Definitely should have been started from the beginning
the new game would technically be Seiken Densetsu 5. Dawn of mana is Seiken Densetsu 4. I just did a deep dive on that game, by the way, I recommend checking it out 🙂 Also i think this is the first mainline mana title that also uses the subtitle given to western audiences too.
Calls the video "retrospective", doesn't mention that trials of mana is considered on of the best rpg ever created, essentially says that every game was mediocre -> concludes that the mana series is one of the best jrpg series. Ok
Trials is *not* considered one of the greatest JRPGs ever made, lol. It's one of the JRPGs. It's admired by a small community but it is NICHE in the west. Also the majority of these games WERE mediocre. I gave praise to SoM and Trials remake as well as FFA. Just because they're not perfect doesn't mean they're not great.
@SolaceAndDread considering YOU have to try and push engagement by asking questions in the comment section, not only do i not care, i doubt its any consequence regardless. stop putting rubbish into the world.
@@eproductions5115 news flash: commenting on your own videos does not boost engagement. It's only if people choose to engage with you. Just dislike the video and move on. Quit crying in my comment section. "eproductions" but literally doesn't produce anything anyone cares about. Don't sling mud here kid, you're not ready.
@SolaceAndDread you wrote a whole bunch of nothong for no reason. your video is shit. simple. cry more later. since you want me gone dw ill make myself known more. 🥰 i produce a whole lot, content isnt at the top of thst list, and its irrelevant honestly, considering the topic of the conversation is your lazy half assed "retrospective"
LOL if I wanted you gone I could just block you. Your pathetic whining in my comments only helps put money in my pockets. Like I said you're the only one in the comments complaining among hundreds. Don't you have another video to make to get 20 views on? Chop chop. Your videos are SO cringe and you come in here talking about US? Lol, keep trying man, maybe someone will care someday. "I produce so much, I'm a big deal you don't even know, my mom loves my stuff" 😂😂🤡
@@SolaceAndDread Oh I love all the mana games (except Dawn though that dislike has grown less through the years). I'm talking about Visions. I don't know if they learned nothing from the Trials remake's combat or if it's from having such an open map but fighting or moving feels like I am moving through molasses.
The reason why I have zero interest in this game is the modern trend of open world bullshit. Even the best modern open world games are pretty much ruined by the vast empty aimless wandering of the open world bullfuckery that this generation of gamers have seemingly fallen in love with. A few games everyone loves, The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild and Ghost of Tsushima? Trash. Not exactly trash, just mediocre titles, because I would rate them just below average as a 4/10, because the aimless wandering that both games require. You spend so much time running around doing nothing, and then once you finally get to the location, you finally get to play the game. You spend so much wasted time not actually doing shit. Elden Ring, what I'd rate a 7/10, unlike Demons/Dark Souls 1, 3, and Bloodborne at a 9/10(2 at 8/10,) because you're spending so much time wandering aimlessly doing nothing but trying to find stuff to do to complete everything. The limitations of the previous Souls games make exploration so much more enjoyable than the empty aimless open world bullshit. Everything else in Elden Ring is excellent which is why it's still rated as high as it is for me, but the open world really hurt the experience for me. /// Finally, the Mana series has always been mediocre. I loved Final Fantasy Adventure, but even on the SNES, I only liked Secret of Mana because I could play it with my friends, but the game itself imo has always been very mediocre. It's funny because once the remake of Secret of Mana came out, every review was complaining about aspects of the game that were in the original release. None of these idiots realized any of this despite being "such a huge fan of the game." The remake allowing full directional aiming is far better than the four directions in the original game so it actually was a much better game than the originally, but it's a bad game because the original is trash. And what you stated in your video. It's not "hit detection." There's two major issues here, the ability to miss attacks, and the massive amounts of invulnerability time. So the reason you can't hit the bosses after the first few 99.9% of the time with melee attacks is because the game is an RPG and calculates hit%. Bosses have an absurd amount of evasion and even if you hit them, you won't hit them, so what appears to be hit detection is just your character missing bosses because their high evasion. So Secret of Mana just turns into a magic spam against bosses in order to kill them. You get to the boss with a few faerie walnuts, you just spam magic, use your faerie walnut, spam magic, use your faerie walnut, the boss is likely dead by that point, but if not, then use the next one. If you save your MP it usually doesn't require any, but one at most. But the biggest issue isn't even the evasion. It's that every time you hit an enemy with 100%, the enemy has several seconds of invulnerability until they get back up, you hit them again at 100%, and they once again have invulnerability. Repeat again and again and again and again. This game is an absolute fucking chore to play through, and the only reason it was enjoyable is because it was an RPG with friends, not because it was good. This game is straight garbage. Beuatiful graphics and great music are nice, but definitely don't make a shit game better. The Mana series has never been great. Seiken Densetsu 3 received all of its praise because it wasn't available in the west. And this happens with any garbage game no one is able to play, some assholes circle jerk about how amazing these "best games you've never played are" and then once people finally play them. Once people finally play Final Fantasy 3, once they finally play Final Fantasy Type 0, once they finally play Shenmue 1 and 2(not Japanese exclusive, but most people didn't play this trash,) and the list goes on. Once people these god tier best game you've never played bullshit, they're finally like, oh, "this game didn't "age well."" It's not that these games didn't age well, that's just some shitty excuse for, the game was never good, you never played it, and hyped it up like some asshole sheep that jumped on the hype train like every other blind gamer. I did play Seikden Densetsu 3 like a lot of others from romhacking.net and being Japanese ecxlusive doesn't mean shit to me when it's a rather mediocre action game. It is better than Secret of Mana, so maybe you had to like that piece of shit to feel this game was some sort of redemption and a quality game. But considering I didn't care for Secret of Mana because of all the issues, there were many better action games, I also didn't care for Sieken Densetsu 3 when I finally played it sometime around, when I already owned a PS2. I actually would have liked Legend of Mana if the game had even the slightest bit of balance. The game is so stupidly easy, that you can play straight through without using any of the games advanced features. Now after beating the game you can increase enemies levels to 10 levels higher such and such levels higher or level 99. There's still no balance there. Increasing by a base level does nothing but increase a base level and if it's too hard it's just a chore to play. At level 99 everything just becomes a damage sponge and you get killed in one hit. It's sad because despite not liking the beat em up genre, Legend of Mana is an RPG beat em up with incredible amount of depth, if it actually had some balance it may have actually been a good game but as beautiful as it is, as great gameplay was, as deep as the weapon crafting and the really cool Carnage Heart style AI robot that you customized his AI, the game was a bad game because just how stupidly easy it was, it was not fun in the least. Sword of Mana took Final Fantasy Adventure and shit all over it. They just ruined the combat, making so slow and jank, pretty much took away all of the spells and turned them into the spirit guardian crap. They ruined the entire game. I played Trials of Mana, got bored after I got to Wendel. Want to play a good action RPG? Go play Ys. Square Enix just needs to put this series to rest, stop trying. There are other better series they can bring back.
lol this was an fun read. Good point on the evasion (and invuln) - this could have been better conveyed to the player with a "miss!" text pop-up. Also regarding the "open world" in Visions, it's not open world. It's open zones, and the open zones are not very big. futhermore they actually show you where the treasure is on the map so you don't have to waste time scouring for it. but even that seems optional and not the goal. Sorry to hear you don't enjoy the Mana series though. have you considered the demo for Visions? I think I enjoyed this combat iteration more than any of the other games I'd played in the series.
@@SolaceAndDread I didn't attempt the demo because I thought it'd be just what Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth went towards Every video I've watched seems to prominently feature the open world environments. While you don't have to do the content in the open world section of Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, a lot of the best content is locked away behind doing this open world stuff, sadly. The main game itself also has a lot of fetch quest stuff you need to progress through, like you have to do the chocobo stuff in the first area, you then have to find at minimum five shinra groups before the Rufus welcome ceremony, and then a lot of fetch quest stuff when you reach Costa Del Sol. Despite not being open world, a lot of game design is just taking these modern open world elements and pushing them into the main game. The original Mana though was open world but your more classic open world, very small areas with a meaningful reason to explore. I wouldn't mind an eventual physical release of that mobile phone remake of Final Fantasy Adventure. Kind of hideous looking and generic looking, but still based on the original Final Fantasy Adventure instead of the Sword of Mana version. I haven't played any of the PS2 or DS games.
Mana series is one of the many series that plagued by the BS gacha games. There's absolutely no reason for these soulless, cheap, lazy cash-grab mobile games to exist other than to milk the nostalgia out of the fans, just to satisfy the never-ending corporate greed.
NEW VIDEO - Dawn of Mana Retrospective! th-cam.com/video/G9jkqZaFsIg/w-d-xo.html
As a "megafan" of the series, I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I agree that Secret of Mana is the crown jewel of the series. I'm very excited for Visions of Mana. Thank you for this.
lol you made it to the end 🤩
Thank you for watching!
I always found it strange that Secret of Mana is the crown jewel when, imo, it's not even the best.
Since you're a "megafan," I wonder if you'll understand when I'll join you to say that Secret of Mana is the "Mega Man 2" of the Mana series.
@@AkaiAzulyeah it's the crown jewel
Of course
Yeah, most people who actually played Secret and Trials know Trials significantly improved everything.
Legend of Mana is the best for me; the freedom, the stories, the systems (smithy, monsters, golems, etc), the customization, the combat, the music.. God, I LOVE the music in that game, Yoko Shimomura did an excellent job.
@@sefiryu it seems to be the favorite - even beyond SoM
@@SolaceAndDread Why did you not list it as a main Mana title?
Well, I love so much about it. I think the atmosphere is probably the best of all mana games (even Secret of Mana still has the edge at the music). but the combat (and with it the other systems you mentioned) could have been much more meaningful. it inloved almost no strategy and button smashing + 1 or 2 super abilities would just ensure you win every fight. I know this game has an incredibly complex crafting system, but you don't need the reward if every battle is incredible easy. this art style + story combined with the fast battles of Sword of Mana would have been my favourite entry ever.
I agree on the combat, it was a bit mashy/easy. think they could have tweaked combat and mechanics a bit on the remaster, too bad they didn't.
Also technically legend is a spin-off title. ☺️
@@sefiryu Yoko Shimomura is a blessing on any project she’s a part of. The mana series, Kingdom Hearts, Super Mario RPG, Parasite Eve, Xenoblade Chronicles, just to name a few that I’ve played. She’s always great.
Fun fact: Secret of Mana for SNES was compatible with the multitap accessory so you could play with 3 players!
@@vigo2669 I always heard of the multitap but never actually saw one as a kid, lol
That's how I played it. Once by myself and then with 2 mates when they came to house. Also played Super Bomber with 4 players.
Legend was beloved probably because you can fully customize everything in the game and it had good plot arcs that were not black and white but gray. So it was not like playing a character or a script but doing what you wanted.
I appreciate the insight because I SURELY don't understand the love, LOL. I moderately enjoyed my time with it though, no hate.
@@SolaceAndDread Yeah legends is not for everyone so I can understand if someone did not like it. The battle system sucked and it had some hiccups but it was my favorite for the full customization and how it was not a cookie-cutter, good vs evil, story.
Final Fantasy Adventure was one of the first games I have ever played, period. And I still remember it fondly for that. But Legend of Mana is my all-time favorite. As another commenter mentioned, the infinitely customizable aspects of the game, the pet system, and even the janky multiplayer mode was fun for the time, as it let me and my best friend join each other's games with our character from our own game. The weapon forging and golem systems could also be surprisingly deep, and you could actually forge weapons that were so stupidly powerful that you could decimate everything. You would also unlock the "Tome of Nightmares" after beating the game the first time, that allowed you to adjust/increase the difficulty for new games, as well as storylines and other stuff that could only be found with certain elemental combinations on your world map, which depended on certain locations being next to others, and it mattered which places you visited in what order to unlock things. I've rambled enough, but there were just so many great things to see and experience, and I thought the replay value of Legend of Mana was great.
@@megsemitinas okay, bringing the characters from your own game is WILD. I didn't even know there was a multiplayer aspect, Crazy how Mana does that lol. How did that work? Code? Memory card?
@@SolaceAndDread in the first town of Termina, there’s a house on the left side where you can knock on the door, and it’ll trigger a prompt to load from memory card, so your friend can put their memory card in slot 2, and it’ll scan the card for save games. Then you can load their character into your game and they can run around and fight with you so long as you dont need a certain NPC for the quest. The downside being that their loadout is locked-in from their save, so they’d have to load their game to make any changes. If I recall, your friend gets to keep any experience earned while they were in your game. All NPCs can have control changed over to a Player 2, but most of them aren’t very good.
That is fcking sick, lol. Alright, thank you for the info lmao.
I played since Final Fantasy Adventures/Mystic Quest for the Gameboy. It may even have been my first JRPG, or maybe it was Zelda idrcc.
Secret of Mana is the most impactful one, I dearly hold to high regards.
Trials/SD3 I played only recently as a remake.
Legend of Mana was good and also so bad.
i am very curious if they can make this one a good JRPG, or even a masterpiece, pre-ordered it, but Idk with Star Wars Outlaws being released the following day, I kinda think I will start VoM and put it aside.... Idk.
@@bejisan1 Secret of Mana is so great. Did you play the remake? A lot of people weren't happy with it.
My first Mana game was actually a fan translation of Trials of Mana, though I knew it as Seiken Densetsu 3 for a long time before I realized that it was a Mana game. I loved the remake it got a few years ago and played through it more than a few times. I preordered Visions right after playing the demo, I am so excited for it.
@@IamLaTerry nice! I never played that fan translation but did you notice any big difference between the scripts? I'd imagine not
@@SolaceAndDread I think the biggest differences were how some names were localized, but I've never sat down and really compared them.
I feel like Trials was the peak of the series and its been squares kiddy/budget franchise since. Hopefully Visions brings it.
Tears in my eyes playing the Visions demo... ❤
Great video, instant subscribe.
Welcome and thank you! I am excited as well. I'm ready to fall in love with Visions too. We'll all have to compare notes!
@@SolaceAndDread Looking forward to your future content. Thanks for the entertaining and thoughtful takes.
Hi, just here to say that your video kinda touched me near the end, definitely made me tear up, your love and adoration for this series is palpable. Niche JRPG games are genuinely where I feel at home most, which is why I feel the ending of your video impacted me in the way it did. With all this said, I haven't played a lot of the Mana games, but me and my girlfriend adored Trials of Mana and I definitely plan to play Secret of Mana at some point. I've already pre ordered Visions of Mana and I genuinely hope that this is a new start for this adorable and insanely charming series. 💖☺️
Thank you for watching! Care to share your favorite jrpg's? (niche or not)
please come let me know what you think of Som and Trials when you play them! Thanks for the comment 🙂
@@SolaceAndDread Yeah, for sure man, I will! 😊 Off the top of my head a few of my favorites are Shin Megami Tensei 3 Nocturne, Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance, Labyrinth of Refrain, Ys 8, and Ys 9. There's definitely more, but these are what I can think of off the top of my head. 😊
I need to pay the Ys series, how long are they?
@@SolaceAndDread I put over 100 hours into both Ys 8 and Ys 9, I feel you could easily put more if you decided to do everything. 💖
This is intimidating
Legend of Mana is just a masterpiece! I love everything on that game since the start of the adventure! The music, the graphics, the colored vibes and all the most silly things are just complete cover with much love. Best of the best and since more than 20 years, is still my favorite game of all time.
Maybe a deepdive on just this game is needed, hahahaha. I need to get my head examined i guess, i'm the only one who doesn't like it.
@@SolaceAndDread I play the game when I was a little child. And all the atmosphere, the domina city music, and discovering things for me was so magical. Building the world and see the events taking place, raising pets and spending hours on the blacksmith facility was something so eternal and magick for me. The games just give me a lot of good energy and I feel everything so cute and beautiful at the same time. Just give a try and enjoy the adventure!
Thanks for this fantastic video. I’ve already preordered and it’s one of my most anticipated games this year. I wish there was more hype around this game because it looks incredible. I’ve been a fan of the Mana games for most of my life.
I really enjoyed the remake of Secret of Mana. I know a lot of people don't feel that way, but I really appreciated having a version of the game with an updated translation/script that made more sense, as well as graphics that made what the characters were supposed to look like more clear. It was also very faithful to the original's gameplay, with a few quality of life improvements. I wasn't expecting anything revolutionary, and it delivered on what it promised, bugs aside. If I wanted to go back and play Secret of Mana again some time, I'm not sure which version I would go for. I think I might just stick to the remake, unless I really want a hit of nostalgia from the 2D SNES graphics. The remake has a lot of advantages over the SNES original, and even if I want to hear the original music, the remake lets me do that.
Still, the Trials of Mana remake blows the Secret remake out of the water. It's a highly superior product. It would have been amazing if Secret of Mana got THAT treatment. Heck, maybe it still can if the series performs well...? I'd buy it.
Secrete of MAna was my childhood. I loved this game. I still have the whole package of the game.
I have always played Legend of Mana and have been wanting to check out some of the rest of the series, this was a great video to get a feel for what the other games are like and which ones I may prefer over others.
If you have the ability I'd recommend Dawn with the caveat that it's not very good but entertaining if you stick it out
Can i get this, but like.... an 8 hour, full tear-down on each game? Please and thanks.
😂😂 well, I'll at the least be doing a full teardown on Dawn of Mana. Should be up by Saturday ❤️ 🤞🏾
Okay, you sold me on Collection of Mana. I will give the Trials remake and Visions a play next :)
Collection is a great nostalgia trip ❤️
My first foray into the series was Dawn of Mana! I was a ps2-addicted tween and after KH and FFX it was so much fun. I'm going to give this series some much needed attention as an adult. Great video! 😁
thanks so much for watching.Hope you pick up visions!
@@SolaceAndDread hope I can land a job and do just that soon! 😁
Do you have a favorite Mana game?
Final Fantasy Adventure was the first time a videogame made me cry. Yes Amanda, I'll take your tears to Lester.
Secrets of Mana will always have a special spot
me is trial of mana
@@OurHeroXero did you play the remake?
@@MRoROBOT remake or original?
This was a great video! Love the Mana series and am hyped for Visions. You might have missed the Legend re-release in your timeline, unless you left it out since it wasn't really anything new.
thank you! and thank you for watching 🙂 I did leave it out for that reason, yes, since it was (near) identical. Still, I should have mentioned it, even if i did leave it off the timeline.
I would've loved a world where Mana was popular enough to get an mmo. Imagine a rabite raid boss 😂
Shoutout for spreading the gospel of Mana! Looking forward to Visions coming out…
@@jyakku79 the people must know! 😂
I think the Secret of Mana remake got way too much hate. I remember the second the first trailer dropped there was a snap judgement by a lot of people that turned into a bandwagon effect of everyone pre-deciding it was garbage. Most of the discussion at that time was that it "looked like a phone game" but it literally was just doing a faithful 3D rendering of the original character art f I personally thought it looked amazing. Basically just like the clay models in the original SNES manual. But since people really hated mobile gaming at the time and they thought it looked like their imagining of what a phone game looks like... they just decided it couldn't be any good.
Adventures of Mana got the same hate for the same reason and Sword of Mana seems to have gotten a lot of hate for reasons I don't really understand. I literally grew up playing the original on Gameboy and was very excited about Sword and fairly excited about adventures and like the SoM remake I actually loved the look.
But once people had decided that the SoM remake was terrible way ahead of the actual release it seemed nobody was allowed to have any positive opinion on it. Honestly, your very balanced take is probably the most "praise" I've ever heard for it.
It didn't improve that much about the original, but honestly, the original doesn't hold up that well when you take off the nostalgia glasses. I love it and I love the pixel art, but the original SoM would get absolutely shredded today for so many reasons.
I definitely think Trials was a huge upgrade though. I think it was a bit too easy, but I remember when I played SD3 via a translation patch way back when that I thought the back half of the game had a ludicrous difficulty spike that suddenly required a lot of grinding. I think Trials has definitely been my favorite so far though.
I was fairly pleased with the Visions demo, but I think it picked a weird slice of the game to plop you in. I strongly suspect the full game will be better because like most mana games you'll slowly get onboarded to the deeper systems rather than just tossed into all of them with 3 characters and little explanation other than an onslaught of text boxes.
As excited as I am I definitely won't pre-order and will wait for some reviews, especially with concerns about performance.
I loved reading this on my lunch break.
I played through FFA on Gameboy as a kid and just bought SwoM, I am kinda shocked at the hate. I personally think it's much better. I know people think the story gets "in the way" but I like that they tried to flesh out the characters/world a bit.
@1:03 But I DID! 😁 But then again, I've been following this series since Final Fantasy Adventure.
Appreciate the Salamando love. He was my favorite since I first met him in Secret of Mana.
Keep up the great work. This channel's content is fantastic honestly, super under-rated.
Thank you for the kind words :-)
Awesome video! Love this series always will
Thank you!!
While i had only played trials i had known of the exitance of the rest if the games and got the older ones in emulator and played a bit of most of them.
So i like to csll mt self a fsn of the series as a whole.
You definerly did a good job.
Legend of Mana is a masterpiece ❤
Great job bro I can't wait to play this
Less than 2 weeks!
i preordered the deluxe, im so excited to play this entry, it feels like a true sequel to trials of mana
Still getting it looks amazing a think more gamers are looking forward to black myth
I took will be getting black myth to try to rush through it before Mana
You did an awesome job with the vid. First vid of yours I’ve seen. I’ve subscribed and plan to check out the rest of your channel.
The Mana Series is my favorite game series with both versions of Trials of Mana being my favorite (the original being #1 though). And I actually really also enjoy Dawn of Mana for what it did, tried to do, and how it brought the series to life with the cutscenes and characters.
It’s funny how you said that being a Star Ocean fan something draws you in with Mana and their focus on gameplay and such. I feel the same way as I’m also a big Star Ocean fan.
Did you play the Fan-translated verison of Trials before the official release in 2019? Did you notice any major script changes?
Also thank you for the kind words :-)
I'm a Star Ocean super-nerd!! gah I could gush about that series for hours (simultaneously trashing and praising it.)
@@SolaceAndDread I’ve beaten the fan translation probably 20+ times before to try different party set ups and builds and I have the Collection of Mana. However I haven’t done a playthrough of that version yet. I’ve beaten the remake like 3-4 times and given how it was done I imagine it’s the same or similar to the translation for the original game.
I've been curious of all of the more drastic changes, but I don't have time like I used to and am really trying to tackle my backlog.
Good ole Final Fantasy Adventure. I was always shy about action RPGs but it sucked me in. Later on SOM became one of my all time fave games. Same with FFL/SaGa and Saga Frontier. I’m still trying to finish SF 30 years later 😂 dang remaster
I've never touched saga but people have been recommending it like crazy.
Great video!
Thank you!
Nice video! I would to add that collection of mana was released in 2019
Thank you!
The Collection of Mana was actually released in 2017 but it wasn't translated and didn't come to the States until 2019.
@@SolaceAndDread oh really!? I didn't know
Maybe the hype is not there, because the game is not releasing on Switch. Most of the JRPG audience is there now (specially for games with this type of artstyle).
I played Secret, Seiken 3, and Sword like 20 years ago, and loved them! Seiken 3's remake (Trials of Mana) was like a dream come true. Now I have absolutely 0 interest on this new game, because it's not releasing on the console that I have. Pretty sure I'm not alone on this.
I think that Visions will sadly share the same fate as Soul Hackers 2.
Great retrospective btw. I find out about a bunch of cellphone games I didn't know existed! :D You gained a new sub.
You know, there is some truth to this. The art style and consoles don't mesh well. This would definitely appeal to a Switch audience more. But I do understand why it's not on there. Hopefully it's developed for the switch successor.
Also thank you, welcome to the turtle kingdom 🐢
Was a fun watch seeing this, especially on some games I have yet to play or didn't know of like some mobile games. But really am excited for Visions of Mana since for once for me it wasn't another mobile game of Mana it's an actual new mainline game in the series after so long. Tho when it comes to the remakes I only got to try Trials and enjoyed that one despite the voice acting, tho I was glad it got received well cause after the secret of mana remake I was wary until they brought collection of mana and I immediately bought that. Finally trying FFA and enjoying that one despite it's limitations and weaknesses, while Secret of Mana... honestly I had more nitpicks with it as I played with magic being so busted compared to regular attacks with odd hit detections, to where I felt I liked Trials/SD3 and even FFA more than that game, until recently playing Co-op with a friend and finally beating SoM it was a fun time despite the jank. That and I did look up the development of SoM originally was gonna be a SNES CD game with Time travel, but plans fell through, 40% of the game was cut including Time travel which that concept got put into Chrono Trigger, and SoM had to work with the limitations of the SNES, which is impressive despite what came around and it's kinda why Trials on SNES was an improvement even that one also has it's odd quirks too. Still have yet to try Dawn of Mana, maybe one day but still I'm genuinely looking forward to Visions soon!!
Dawn is really overhated. I'm playing through it right now, and I'm kind of in love, despite the horrible jank, lol. for every sin the game commits it charms me just as much. if they do a remake of that game they're gonna have their hands FULL, lol. Also loves to read this mana love, thank you for the comment (and watching
this was very thorough and I appreciate the knowledge dear turtle
@@DreadandSolace ty wife
I've been thinking about it I think this is visions of mana is going to pull a Dragon Quest 11 on us and rip the rug out from under us cuz Dragon Quest 11 you know they hit you with that generic setup but then they just pull the rug out from under you
@@amacandtheswordoflight310 ah, the ending showing it's before ALL OF IT. hahaha. I'd be shocked if they pulled something off like that
thank you
I remembered LOVING Seiken Densetsu 3 and then playing Secret of Mana afterwards and not liking it and never touching the series again haha!
Visions looks GORGEOUS, so whenever I get a PS5 I will be picking it up (I wasn’t happy with the performance of the demo on the PS4).
I’ve recently been playing Final Fantasy Adventure and will be replaying Trials of Mana shortly as well. So I’m definitely in the mood to play more of the series thanks Visions coming out!
I heard the performance wasn't the best on "last gen" consoles. I really hope they fix that prior to release
@@dukey03 also WILD that you didn't like SoM 😂
@@SolaceAndDread hahaha it’s pretty much for the same reasons you mentioned. I hated waiting to attack in order to do any damage, plus the hit-rate was pretty terrible. Looking forward to playing the Turbo hacked version of the game though. It looks like it takes care of all my issues.
I've been a "fan" of the series since 1993 with Secret of Mana. I was really excited when I saw Visions announced, caught the trailer and was shocked how bad it looked, in my opinion. Characters were dull and lifeless, in that uncanny valley way. Gameplay looked slow, stale and lifeless. I'm glad someone else is excited for it though. Couple of points I'd make:
1. You are absolutely right about Dawn of Mana. Not enough people compare it to Kingdom Hearts. I think that for fans of Secret of Mana, they moved on to Kingdom Hearts when that came out. Kingdom Hearts basically stole all the Mana fans.
2. You are again, absolutely right about Legend of Mana. I got it immediately when it came out, played it, beat it and was left completely numb. For me, I didn't enjoy the ability to "customize" the world. The game made no sense to me, there were absolutely no stakes and when I beat it, felt like it was a waste of time. Granted, I played this game after other "masterpiece" games and couldn't help but compare it to FF6, FF7, Chrono Trigger, Mario RPG, Final Fantasy Tactics, amongst others.
3. For me, Children of Mana and Heroes of Mana had a ton of promise, but were ultimately lacking. I got them both, played them both, but I think got burned out on the whole series. I loved the Sword of Mana remake, though. I thought it was beautifully done and the class system was pretty incredible.
4. I never bought Dawn of Mana. When I first saw it, I was super excited, saw footage and read reviews and didn't bother to get it. It didn't seem to capture the "magic" of Secret of Mana or Seiken Densetsu 3.
5. Square made a fatal mistake, not releasing Seiken Densetsu 3 in the States in any capacity for so long. They could have put it out on Playstation 1 like they did with Final Fantasy 5 or Chrono Trigger for fans who didn't originally get it. I think Seiken Densetsu 3 would have boosted the brand for those people who loved Secret of Mana. Not releasing it at all, they zigged when they should have zagged. Then releasing that much later in the States, it's too little, too late.
6. Mana should not be treated like Final Fantasy (or Zelda, for that matter), in the way that each game is a "reinvention" with no discernable timeline. I think this is also a huge mistake they've made. The games should be connected, in order to get fans invested in all the games to have a complete picture of the storyline. For a lack of a better comparison, I think Mana should be more like Marvel, with a connected universe, rather than like the FF series.
7. I think it's obvious they don't know what to do with this franchise and it's not a top priority enough to be given any kind of real love and care. They know there's an identifiable art style that they can paste on a game and get a certain amount of sales if the game is an action RPG. Put in all the classic elements, the tree, Flammie, etc., and a certain amount of people will buy. But in my opinion, what the franchise really needs, is a "vision" (no pun intended). Someone needs to come in, who understands it, it's potential, where it could go, where it should go, how it could be improved. Hopefully, Visions is that installment. But for me, it doesn't look compelling enough to get reinvested. I think a lot of the "fans" have moved on to other games/franchises.
I loved reading this ❤️
I can answer to #5. According to the creator of the series, back then it would have "cost a fortune" to translate the game with the multiple branching dialogue options and it just wasn't feasible for the budget Mana had, especially since Secret of Mana actually didn't sell as well as they hoped in the US.
This is something I should have stated in the video, lol.
Why i haven't pre ordered is becauce im actually getting it as a christmas gift since you asked. :)
I just completed the Demo last night. It was fun.
Gonna pick it up or wait for a sale?
@@SolaceAndDread I might pick it up when it drops. I’ve been looking for something new to get into that isn’t Fromsoft related. 😅 I haven’t played a JRPG since tales of Arise.
I was late into the mana games so I have no nostalgia for them but I do enjoy their almost chill like experience
@@RPGStory same, really. I only played FFA in my youth, the rest were later on.
Have you covered the saga series?
Hey there - nope. I only played one of them. It's something to put on a future list though
I will play it on PC. Would you say it is playable with mouse and keypad or do I need a joystick?
7:56 The Command Ring and combat systems were somewhat copied over between Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore.. At least, it appears to be on the surface level.. Secret of Evermore also was a SNES game that featured a Command Ring and the scaling percentage damage gauge that forced you to wait between attacks instead of spamming it.. I don't know if the same devs were behind both games, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.. I had a lot of fun with Secret of Evermore myself, but only have tiny fragments of memories of having barely played Secret of Mana.. I have not played either since the days the SNES was the latest generation of consoles..
@@Masquerade404 Secret of Evermore was American made but they did directly take the command ring from Mana. Very close in dev cycle. The game came up in my research, lol. I never got to play it as a kid tho
@@SolaceAndDread Ah, good to know.. Also, there is a point later in the video where an ally/enemy is frozen in place while glowing white/blue with a circle around its feet just like how the spells did in Secret of Evermore.. In SoE it happens with one of the healing spells, but since the clip is from SoM, I don't know what spell that is.. I actually have the sound of the healing spell from SoE playing in my head right now..
After LoM the drought set in. It feels like they didn't really know where to go with the Mana series and also didn't quite understand what made Mana special.
World of Mana was very hit or miss, mostly misses, like a bunch of jumbled projects and I've never been very keen on mobile games. I understand that there are some good ones and the market is huge, but if that's the only thing a series gets it will fade into obscurity and become a joke. Even mobile spinoffs need a relevant series of mainline games as a foundation.
I feel the spell was finally broken when they released the Collection of Mana to test the waters and followed up with the Trials remake. It really feels like Mana is finally out of its slump. That shit took forever though.
I agree with every letter in this comment, lol
Secret of Evermore anyone?
@@bryanlegge5400 best non-mana Mana game
Rawr
@@OurHeroXero articulate as always
I'll tell you why I haven't preordered Visions yet: it isn't on switch 😢
I want this game so badly. I've been playing secret of mana since I was a kid discovering retro games on the earliest days of TH-cam. I own a lot of the franchise physically and would love to buy visions on a Nintendo console... I need to support this game but I don't have and don't want a PS5. The PS4 physical got canned which was my plan. I also don't have a PS4 but i do have Castlevania on that. Which is only bc sotn isnt allowed to come out on Nintendo.
@@MattDustyParker I would love for it to be on switch, but the game barely runs well on PS5. I hope you get one (or a gaming PC) someday!
I wish the demo would have started you at the beginning rather than in the middle. I hate when demos start you in the middle and everything feels overwhelming.
@@jordanneal576 I think it also helps sell the game when your progress carries over to the full game from the demo.
Definitely should have been started from the beginning
Visions was incredible and blew me away. I didnt even like demo. Sucks not selling super well and studio closed
So is this new game Seiken Densetsu 4?
the new game would technically be Seiken Densetsu 5. Dawn of mana is Seiken Densetsu 4. I just did a deep dive on that game, by the way, I recommend checking it out 🙂
Also i think this is the first mainline mana title that also uses the subtitle given to western audiences too.
Calls the video "retrospective", doesn't mention that trials of mana is considered on of the best rpg ever created, essentially says that every game was mediocre -> concludes that the mana series is one of the best jrpg series. Ok
Trials is *not* considered one of the greatest JRPGs ever made, lol. It's one of the JRPGs. It's admired by a small community but it is NICHE in the west. Also the majority of these games WERE mediocre.
I gave praise to SoM and Trials remake as well as FFA. Just because they're not perfect doesn't mean they're not great.
Chicken Tendy hair!
Your jealousy of his beautiful (delicious) hair is showing.
@@SolaceAndDread 🤣🤣 I'm gonna eat his hair
Solace the way you pronounce gaiden hurts me.
@@gamingturtle8412 I'm aware it's "guy-den" - just a mispronunciation that didn't warrant a second take.
I only liked Sword of Mana for the GBA but the more modern ones don't really appeal to me anymore. They look like they want the gacha fanbase now.
@@knight_lautrec_of_carim did you try the demo for visions? Big recommend. ☺️
Dawn of mana was really bad. So bad infact I never finished it.
Funny enough I love that game to pieces. But yeah, it's not great lol.
theres no such thing as a good 20 minute retrospective.
There's several hundred people who disagree with you, but go off king.
@SolaceAndDread considering YOU have to try and push engagement by asking questions in the comment section, not only do i not care, i doubt its any consequence regardless. stop putting rubbish into the world.
@@eproductions5115 news flash: commenting on your own videos does not boost engagement. It's only if people choose to engage with you. Just dislike the video and move on. Quit crying in my comment section.
"eproductions" but literally doesn't produce anything anyone cares about. Don't sling mud here kid, you're not ready.
@SolaceAndDread you wrote a whole bunch of nothong for no reason. your video is shit. simple. cry more later. since you want me gone dw ill make myself known more. 🥰
i produce a whole lot, content isnt at the top of thst list, and its irrelevant honestly, considering the topic of the conversation is your lazy half assed "retrospective"
LOL if I wanted you gone I could just block you. Your pathetic whining in my comments only helps put money in my pockets. Like I said you're the only one in the comments complaining among hundreds.
Don't you have another video to make to get 20 views on? Chop chop. Your videos are SO cringe and you come in here talking about US? Lol, keep trying man, maybe someone will care someday.
"I produce so much, I'm a big deal you don't even know, my mom loves my stuff" 😂😂🤡
Game does not play well
What don't you like about them?
@@SolaceAndDread Oh I love all the mana games (except Dawn though that dislike has grown less through the years). I'm talking about Visions. I don't know if they learned nothing from the Trials remake's combat or if it's from having such an open map but fighting or moving feels like I am moving through molasses.
Visions of mana plays like an underwater turd sadly
@@Maj-zx4xd what's the difference between how an underwater and out of water turd's play?
Legends of mana is a trash game. Even when it came out.
Is there a Mana game you do like or are they not for you?
The reason why I have zero interest in this game is the modern trend of open world bullshit. Even the best modern open world games are pretty much ruined by the vast empty aimless wandering of the open world bullfuckery that this generation of gamers have seemingly fallen in love with.
A few games everyone loves, The Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild and Ghost of Tsushima? Trash. Not exactly trash, just mediocre titles, because I would rate them just below average as a 4/10, because the aimless wandering that both games require. You spend so much time running around doing nothing, and then once you finally get to the location, you finally get to play the game. You spend so much wasted time not actually doing shit.
Elden Ring, what I'd rate a 7/10, unlike Demons/Dark Souls 1, 3, and Bloodborne at a 9/10(2 at 8/10,) because you're spending so much time wandering aimlessly doing nothing but trying to find stuff to do to complete everything. The limitations of the previous Souls games make exploration so much more enjoyable than the empty aimless open world bullshit. Everything else in Elden Ring is excellent which is why it's still rated as high as it is for me, but the open world really hurt the experience for me.
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Finally, the Mana series has always been mediocre. I loved Final Fantasy Adventure, but even on the SNES, I only liked Secret of Mana because I could play it with my friends, but the game itself imo has always been very mediocre. It's funny because once the remake of Secret of Mana came out, every review was complaining about aspects of the game that were in the original release. None of these idiots realized any of this despite being "such a huge fan of the game." The remake allowing full directional aiming is far better than the four directions in the original game so it actually was a much better game than the originally, but it's a bad game because the original is trash.
And what you stated in your video. It's not "hit detection." There's two major issues here, the ability to miss attacks, and the massive amounts of invulnerability time. So the reason you can't hit the bosses after the first few 99.9% of the time with melee attacks is because the game is an RPG and calculates hit%. Bosses have an absurd amount of evasion and even if you hit them, you won't hit them, so what appears to be hit detection is just your character missing bosses because their high evasion. So Secret of Mana just turns into a magic spam against bosses in order to kill them. You get to the boss with a few faerie walnuts, you just spam magic, use your faerie walnut, spam magic, use your faerie walnut, the boss is likely dead by that point, but if not, then use the next one. If you save your MP it usually doesn't require any, but one at most. But the biggest issue isn't even the evasion. It's that every time you hit an enemy with 100%, the enemy has several seconds of invulnerability until they get back up, you hit them again at 100%, and they once again have invulnerability. Repeat again and again and again and again. This game is an absolute fucking chore to play through, and the only reason it was enjoyable is because it was an RPG with friends, not because it was good. This game is straight garbage. Beuatiful graphics and great music are nice, but definitely don't make a shit game better.
The Mana series has never been great. Seiken Densetsu 3 received all of its praise because it wasn't available in the west. And this happens with any garbage game no one is able to play, some assholes circle jerk about how amazing these "best games you've never played are" and then once people finally play them. Once people finally play Final Fantasy 3, once they finally play Final Fantasy Type 0, once they finally play Shenmue 1 and 2(not Japanese exclusive, but most people didn't play this trash,) and the list goes on. Once people these god tier best game you've never played bullshit, they're finally like, oh, "this game didn't "age well."" It's not that these games didn't age well, that's just some shitty excuse for, the game was never good, you never played it, and hyped it up like some asshole sheep that jumped on the hype train like every other blind gamer. I did play Seikden Densetsu 3 like a lot of others from romhacking.net and being Japanese ecxlusive doesn't mean shit to me when it's a rather mediocre action game. It is better than Secret of Mana, so maybe you had to like that piece of shit to feel this game was some sort of redemption and a quality game. But considering I didn't care for Secret of Mana because of all the issues, there were many better action games, I also didn't care for Sieken Densetsu 3 when I finally played it sometime around, when I already owned a PS2.
I actually would have liked Legend of Mana if the game had even the slightest bit of balance. The game is so stupidly easy, that you can play straight through without using any of the games advanced features. Now after beating the game you can increase enemies levels to 10 levels higher such and such levels higher or level 99. There's still no balance there. Increasing by a base level does nothing but increase a base level and if it's too hard it's just a chore to play. At level 99 everything just becomes a damage sponge and you get killed in one hit. It's sad because despite not liking the beat em up genre, Legend of Mana is an RPG beat em up with incredible amount of depth, if it actually had some balance it may have actually been a good game but as beautiful as it is, as great gameplay was, as deep as the weapon crafting and the really cool Carnage Heart style AI robot that you customized his AI, the game was a bad game because just how stupidly easy it was, it was not fun in the least.
Sword of Mana took Final Fantasy Adventure and shit all over it. They just ruined the combat, making so slow and jank, pretty much took away all of the spells and turned them into the spirit guardian crap. They ruined the entire game.
I played Trials of Mana, got bored after I got to Wendel. Want to play a good action RPG? Go play Ys. Square Enix just needs to put this series to rest, stop trying. There are other better series they can bring back.
@@kupomogli lots of words for such a trash opinion
lol this was an fun read.
Good point on the evasion (and invuln) - this could have been better conveyed to the player with a "miss!" text pop-up.
Also regarding the "open world" in Visions, it's not open world. It's open zones, and the open zones are not very big. futhermore they actually show you where the treasure is on the map so you don't have to waste time scouring for it. but even that seems optional and not the goal.
Sorry to hear you don't enjoy the Mana series though. have you considered the demo for Visions? I think I enjoyed this combat iteration more than any of the other games I'd played in the series.
@kupomogli let's meet negativity with positivity. He's just stating how he feels about the game(s)
@@SolaceAndDread I didn't attempt the demo because I thought it'd be just what Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth went towards Every video I've watched seems to prominently feature the open world environments. While you don't have to do the content in the open world section of Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth, a lot of the best content is locked away behind doing this open world stuff, sadly. The main game itself also has a lot of fetch quest stuff you need to progress through, like you have to do the chocobo stuff in the first area, you then have to find at minimum five shinra groups before the Rufus welcome ceremony, and then a lot of fetch quest stuff when you reach Costa Del Sol. Despite not being open world, a lot of game design is just taking these modern open world elements and pushing them into the main game.
The original Mana though was open world but your more classic open world, very small areas with a meaningful reason to explore. I wouldn't mind an eventual physical release of that mobile phone remake of Final Fantasy Adventure. Kind of hideous looking and generic looking, but still based on the original Final Fantasy Adventure instead of the Sword of Mana version.
I haven't played any of the PS2 or DS games.
Mana series is one of the many series that plagued by the BS gacha games. There's absolutely no reason for these soulless, cheap, lazy cash-grab mobile games to exist other than to milk the nostalgia out of the fans, just to satisfy the never-ending corporate greed.