Are Surf Brands Ripping Off Photographers On Instagram?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ส.ค. 2023
- In this video I answer a question from a photographer who is getting his images used by a surf brand. Love to know your thoughts and experiences on this topic, I think its important to keep the conversation open amongst all of us photogs so we can create and more directional and positive future.
Let me know if you want to hear more about this...
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Tom, well done. I allow the local surfers to re-post my photos on social media for free but I do make it clear that they are welcome to use my images of them for personal use on social media only but any commercial use MUST be negotiated with me. I make it clear that "I am not in the business of loosing money to help other people make money". When you consider I am either standing on the beach or swimming with equipment that costs a lot of money (my beach rig is a Canon R3 + EF800mm L F5.6 lens worth about $30K) then why in hell would I be happy for someone to use my photo to make money for themselves for free. Whilst I have only had to take action a couple of times I have successfully sued a few that have used my images for commercial use without permission for breach of copyright. I am fortunate enough to have the financial means to be able to take them on. They have all settled when the legal letter arrives from my solicitor and paid up. So far I have not ended up in court but I would if it came to that. Most punters don't have the resources or knowledge to be able to take them on and those using the photos for commercial use trade on that with the knowledge that most punters will just give up. You are right, pricing is a whole other challenge. You can't eat a photo credit. I only shoot photos for fun now but damned if I will let someone use my photos for commercial gain for free. Good metadata embedded in the images is also very, very important to help track images.
Thanks Greg, really appreciate these insights, Im sure they will be valuable for many! I'm starting to even question the surfer to pay, especially for the high end surfers. Many of them are paid by their sponsors an allowance to gather content for their instagrams. You are in a sense building their personal brand, which is their business, so it could be argued that they are actually in the same boat as a brand.... Note* I think at the moment this is only true for the CT comp surfers or high profile free surfers, but its something to keep an eye on down the track... social media is so relatively new and will are all trying to navigate it together, that's why I think we need more discussions between photographers to paved a clear path for the future... thanks again for these insights, the meta data is a great point to bring up as well, I will do some stuff on that down the track, cheers Ledge!
@@dreamlifephotography Thanks Tom I haven't really had to address the issue of "pro-surfers" re-sharing my photos. Whilst we have some red hot surfers around Cronulla I could count on one hand the number who make money and there is probably only two who really do - Connor O'Leary and Jarvis Earle. I am very happy to support both of them as I have known them both since there were very young surfers and as they are both members of Elouera Boardriders Club of which I am a life member and founding president. Unfortunately there are far too many photogs, not just in surfing, who are happy to give their photos away for a photo credit these days which has destroyed the market and weakened the quality of the images you see these days because anybody who is any good gives shooting away when they can't make any money especially when their wives/husbands want them to focus on the the work that pays the mortgage and puts food on the table. I am nearly 70 now and have long since given up trying to make money and just do it for fun. Whilst I love the ease of digital it has to take the blame for destroying the market for those trying to make a real earn from photography for anyone other than those very few who make it at the high end where there is still money to be made. Long gone are the days of getting $1,000 plus for a cover on a mag or even more for double page adds. I was selling buyouts (selling copyright) for $5K + in the film era. I recently had a about 10 photos run within an article in a mag and got free copy of the mag for a few months. You can't put food on the table with that.
For regular (recreational) surfers, I don't charge for social media use. However, if they want a hi-res or a print then I charge for that. I alway make it clear that the social media images are for personal use and any commercial use is chargable. When I'm shooting, I try and capture some good surfers for my social media, but I also capture a few not so good surfers - who are more than happy to pay for a print and hi-res images, particularly if it's a water shot as they don't get many photos. Most recreational surfers in the water will say, "if you get a good shot , I'll pay for them". If the recreational surfers can afford some $$ for images, then so can a business.
Whilst surf brand are particularly tight (unless you are a fashion photographer shooting their clothes) I have also had other brands and businesses (Yoga, Boutiques, Health Brands, Real-Estate) all repost my work without permission. It's as though they treat Instagram as a free Getty and all they have to do is credit the photographer (or artist).
Tom is right, Social media is highly important for a brand - it's where their customers are. Websites are an adjunct for bookings or ecommerce, but are not the main sales funnel - social media is and the aim is to convert their audience into paying customers for commercial gain. So don't let any commercial entity use your images for free or try and tell you any BS about social media not being important.
The way I see it, is that we use social media to advertise our products and services (the photos) and as a result those images are copyrighted and should be licensed for commercial use. I think that it's absolutely fair for any photographer to ask for payment for their product and services. I imagine that none of these brands would let you wander in off the streets and take their products off the shelves, or let you use their services for free without some sort or arrangement before hand.
I'm sure that there are plenty of photographers and artists that are happy for a credit and nothing else. Unfortunately that has an affect on others and sets the wrong expectation, which is why - sadly - commercial entities just move onto the next photographer, who gets taken advantage off.
Thanks so much for these insights Tony, I really appreciate the depth and knowledge and experience showed in this comment. So true about "if a local surfer can afford to pay for a high res image for personal use, then surely a brand can pay some dollars for advertising use on social media... this is a powerful realisation for photographers to have... you are absolutely right, the amount of regular surfers that say "I'm happy to pay you if you got a photo of me" actually happens nearly every session for me and Im sure other photogs too..... they are showing respect to you when some brands just think they can take from you without any energy exchange ($$) is really perplexing!!! but thanks again for your comment, I encourage everyone to read a few times to get the gold from it.. cheers mate
Well said bro! If any surfers ask if they can use shots then I'm always cool with that, but always make sure to mention if their sponsors want to use it to message me to work something out. I feel like if you tag a surfer/brand then that implies they can use it, but if you haven't tagged them then its pay to play!
Yeah I think its fair to pay for the content that they see as valuable enough to advertise with. The key as a photographer is to have a rate card ready to go, so you can promptly send them it through a professional PDF that clearly states what you charge, this is something that I may encourage other photographers to setup or even make a template for those that are interested.... thanks for your input ledge!
@@dreamlifephotography indeed a quick and concise response armed with rates certainly helps push that professional approach. I think sharing a template would be an epic idea - the more photographers come to the table with that, the better it'll be for everyone!
agree mate... just checked your channel man, looks epic! @@StokedForTravel
@@dreamlifephotography thanks heaps bro - much appreciated ☺
I think there's certainly a lack of compensation for creative work in the surf industry, but I suppose it isn't one of the most financially well off industries to begin with. Also, it is very saturated with talented photographers and filmers. Interesting space!
It so is now, its great to see new content from fairly inexperienced photographers, some of it is mind glowingly great.
Yeah for sure Benj - definitely an interesting space and while the surf industry might not be the most "well off" industry they still need to pay for a service. A mechanic doesn't charge less for a service or give it away for free because the car owner is on minimum wage, the service is the same if you are making 500k a year or 30K a year. If the brand thinks it is valuable enough to post for their brand awareness or to promote their gear then the image is an asset.... brands are only posting on social to stay in business... its the best way for a brand to stay in business right now, so they need to be paying for the service that photographers are providing for them... that's what I reckon anyway... really appreciate your insights and thoughts on this mate, thanks for getting involved in the conversation
@@dreamlifephotography, I totally agree. It’s tough to change and industry like this, but hopefully it happens! This is why I rarely shoot professionally or for brands in surf anymore. Just for prints and my own use!
I support all QS surfers now, and only charge for CT photos to adapt to the industry, any CT surfers or QS sponsors that don’t play ball go in a black book. Other surf industry photogs are also doing this, comparing black books (in NSW and QLD especially)shows some interesting trends, in regards to brands and riders. It’s a great way for😢 myself and fellow photographers to weed out the poor payers - in return reducing their content reach on the free platforms. Another tip, avoid dodgy competitions where rights are wavered to the image.
Yes!! a lot of photo competitions are total traps for getting loads of images to use free! Great point to be very careful about entering most photo comps, thanks for bringing that up! So I couldn't get total clarity from your comment, are you charging the QS and CT surfers? I agree that anyone abusing the system will get found out soon enough, that might get a few freebies but eventually no one of quality will want to work for them
Ive stopped charging QS surfers, sorry it was ambiguous, I work with them for future CT relationships
Had my acronyms about face oops
Tom thanks so much for the response video! Love the point that they wouldn’t be reposting it if they didn’t think it’d bring them more revenue. Looking forward to more videos from you on the subject. Also shoutout to your community for these insightful comments as well. Stay stoked!
Thanks Ledge, yeah they are using a valuable service for their brand... I think the most valuable services visuals (video and photos) is the most powerful way for a surf brand to be noticed and followed and then ultimately profit, so its just crazy that they are not investing in content or respecting the ones that are creating it for them!!
Great video, very informative, thanks 👍
Thanks so much for your feedback..appreciate
Thanks Tom, this was a great watch. I am just getting into water photography and so many of the surfers at my local are fairly well known in the industry, or have small deals with local shops. I am kind of at a loss on the best way to use these photos I am getting. Do I post them on my social and hope to gain interest from the surfers and in turn their small shops? And at that point if either the surfer or brand want to use it, I request compensation or request they take it down (if they repost it for example)? As you are well aware equipment and time isn't free... I also surf these breaks regularly and don't want to put a target on my back for "refusing" to give photos to the local surfers who "moderate" the line up.
I get that its a fine line to walk, It really starts by respecting yourself and your work and the energy that you will give off from this will most of the time get the respect of people around you. So it starts from there. You don't want to come off as an aggressive photographer throwing your weight around over a picture here or there, but I have found when you are a good human that backs themselves then the respect and expectation to pay for the work will be a given and you will less likely come up against the brands are asking to use for free, they will instead come to you with an offer.... Its always good to ask questions back, Like how do you expect me to keep doing this without getting paid if you are getting hassled for free photos... but try to get the respect in yourself and your own work and that will be reflected in the way others see you