Thank you for the video! I was interested in the construction of these valves and your videos fit the bill perfectly! Three years ago, as a first time homeowner, we purchased the cheap "IPS Angled Adjustable Steam Radiator Valve" to replace the broken one on our bedroom radiator. It split right along the seam a few weeks back. Sounded like a whistle train when it failed. Three years in service isn't too bad but, I figured that there must be better models. We just purchased a Gorton replacement.
So that hoffman 75, when it cools down will it allow air back into the system? Thats definitely what was broken on my system allowing water and air to go both directions. Ive ordered a new one. Should be here tomorrow.
It depends on the size of the steam main and the length. I would look at using at least a Gorton #1 (it has the same venting rate as the Hoffman #75). Often, a Gorton #2 is a good idea (it is difficult to over vent a main) Sometimes even just one #2 is not enough and you have to gang them up.
Very useful video. We have a steam radiator on the 4th floor that lets out air very very slowly. Is it possible to move the air out faster by adding 2 vent valves or a different one that moves air out faster?
You could try a faster vent. What do you have on there now? Sometimes, improving the main venting in the basement helps overall. Sometimes, adding a dedicated "riser vent" can help get the air out, then a relatively small vent can work. If you go with too fast of a vent on the problem radiator first, it might cause it to spit and grumble (ie it's possible to over-vent a radiator)
I still use Hoffman 1A's but use Gorton nos. 1 and 2 for mains and for hard to vent rads that are further off the mains and risers. 40s don't seem to vent fast enough, although sometimes slow is good. Thanks.
Thank you for showing us the insides of these vents and how they work! Much easier to see than “theory” or drawings in a book. And how do you get such nice cuts when you cut them in half???
Thanks! So glad it was helpful. I usually cut open two vents, one is cut open just to remove the inner part, and the other is cut longitudinally with a fine-toothed band-saw.
Do u recommend this #40 air vent on vintage radiators ….. the boiler I have is from 1960 (peerless) …. A couple of years ago I needed up buying Dole air vents .
The answer is... It depends. The #40 is a fixed (non adjustable) relatively "slow" vent. A large radiator, column type, might heat up more with a faster vent. A tube type radiator might heat up just fine with a slower vent (there is less air in a tube type raditor of the same EDR) Where there is Air, there CANNOT be steam. Make sure you have good steam main vents such as a Gorton #2.
Any advice on how to size air vents for heating coils for roof top units? Got a new job recently and finding a lot of screwy stuff here and I’d like to make it right.
For roof-top units, the big thing is to make as sure as possible there is no trapped water in the coils, pipes etc at the end of the heating cycle. Proper slope, vacuum breakers are needed esp if there is a zone valve!
It’s two pipe with modulating valves. I noticed the air vents were leaking and then realized instead of having one vent and one breaker there were two air vents. So seems to me somebody has been doing a lot of guessing here. I’ll be doing a full run down of these machines in the spring and hopefully get them back to their former glory
My hoffman No 40, air steam vent, has started to spit water. I don't know what else to do because I have taken water that was inside, but it's still doing the same.
They *should* last for years. If they let steam escape, they should be replaced, of course. If they don't let air out and the radiator doesn't heat, the vent should be looked at, at least. If the rate of vent failure seems too high, make sure your main vents are working and big enough. Make sure you are running at low (less than 2 psi) pressure. Also, stick with good quality vents.
@@gordonschweizer5154 It seems that hard water not treated in the boiler can expedite corrosion and muck build causing the vents to not behave properly.
@jazzcornertv Some folks have replaced their boiler water with de-ionized or even distilled water to avoid the over-mineralization of their steam system. I am not an expert on doing this procedure.
My steam radiator has the standard Hoffman vent but the apt building is pre-war so the vent threads on the radiator itself are old and corroded so that it doesn’t tightly lock into place. Tonight the steam/pressure blew the Hoffman vent off of my radiator and now my bedroom is a sauna & the radiator is spitting water. Called my super but any tips on the interim? I’ve already tried tape on the vent threads and pitching the radiator as much as I possibly could
If the 1/8 NPT threads in your radiator are worn out, very likely a skilled plumber will need to be summoned to drill out and re-tap the raditor to 1/4 NPT and install a 1/4 x 1/8 bushing. In the mean time, the radiator will need to be shut off.
The air vent hole should point up if you want the vent to work properly. If you so desire, you can shut off the radiator by installing the vent with the hole pointing down.
@@gordonschweizer5154 Thank you for your reply. I found the radiator didn't work when it was pointing down. The maintenance man said it should point down and I didn't believe him.
can i replace a hoffman n40 with any other Gorton if i don't like this design? my large living room radiator is not heating up. maybe got water in it. the coming neck area is warm/hot, radiator is cold.
Did the radiator in question heat before and now it doesn't? Is the radiator valve open all the way? If yes to both, try removing the Hoffman 40, shaking out the water & putting it back.
@@gordonschweizer5154 probably it wasn't heating up before, because of water blocking that steam coming pipe. it was never a concern since the living is not the coldest area. actually, i did a vacuum on those shredded off pain chips yesterday, and twisted that stop valve a bit(its fully open clockwise, not sure if any thing broke in there). it has some play after that day. maybe is not real hot, because the room temperature has reached up to 71 on its setting, and the steam stopped. that vent been wising tho. could Hoffman No40 be replaced by a gorton #4 or something, that venting hole size look similar. unless that radiator is design for that type of vent for easier shut off.
I've found that there are 2 variations on the cheap USAV-884 vent. The smaller diameter one with the small adjustment screw, and the larger diameter one with the large adjustment screw. The large one is of considerably better quality and I have actually found they do a much better job of sealing against wet steam than others. At least until the bad near boiler piping can be fixed. The Durst SRV from Lowe's which is a Gorton clone is also useful for balancing a system. It comes with every size of orifice for $10. Would I use these on a properly running system, probably not. But to limp a leaky boiler through the winter they absolutely work, as well as to balance a system without buying a bunch of expensive Gortons. When they break they can be replaced with the real thing, now that you have an idea of what vent should go where.
I'm going to be installing a main vent on a small one pipe system. I'm thinking, Gorton #1 or a Hoffman #4A. There's a 1/2" tapping conveniently located on a tee, 15" from end of the dry return before it drops to the Hartford loop. Which vent would you choose?
@@gordonschweizer5154 yes, only one 2" main. About 30 feet long. 1" dry return. 2+1/2" header, 1+1/2" equalizer. Two story cape. New SGO-3. Going back to skim next week and install the new main vent.
Hi Gordon, I live on the 3rd floor and have steam heat, would you recommend the Hoffman #40 for all 9 of my radiators? As it is now I have those cheap Maid of the Mist ones and some radiators are not heating.
@@gordonschweizer5154 Yes when I first moved in they did heat, then I had all the air valves changed one summer because I had a few that were hissing, seemed that would be a good upgrade. Unfortunately I used the Maid O Mist ones from the local hardware store.
I had one radiator in my bedroom that was totally cold, I just replaced the M-o-M with a Hoffman 40 and it sprung back to life after being cold since I moved in 2 years ago!! Its a miracle!
Thank you for your question. Here are a few thoughts, by no means comprehensive: A Radiator vent would need to be replaced for several reasons. One would be if the radiator does not heat at all. If you remove the vent while the boiler is making steam, and the radiator starts to get hot, the vent *may* have failed shut or had a drop of paint in the vent hole. (Painters are good at that.) If the radiator heats, and the steam reaches the vent and steam continues to vent from it, the vent has failed open and, after shutting off the steam, the vent needs to be replaced.
We have about 20 new/old stock 2A Hoffman's. I tested them all. Four failed to hold a vacuum. Of those 4, two out and out leaked from the bottom seam from poor solder joints! Pretty high failure rate. "They don't make 'em like they used to" isn't always true.
Hard to answer without knowing a bit more. Is your 1A failing? Does your radiator heat ok with that 1A? What setting is your 1A on? The Hoffman 40 is a slower vent (generally) than the 1A. Are your main steams large enough?
I myself have not had much success using the vinegar soak method. That does not mean others won't. It's always worth a try. I have seen where boiling Hoffman #40 vents in vinegar has nearly stripped the plating off of newer models
Yes, I often use the Gorton #4, one of the slowest vents I know of, on small or over heating radiators. Gortons are well made vents that work on a different internal mechanism from the Hoffman #40. I hope to make a video on Gorton vents soon!
Thanks for the video! It's very helpful! One question, one of the #40 vent in a radiator in my home is getting very loud recently. Is it normal? Thanks in advance!
Hmm, probably not. So, question for you: Does that radiator heat all the way to the vent? If it is still hissing when the vent is almost too hot to touch, that indicates the vent has failed to close properly. It may be time for a replacement. Save the old vent and try putting it in a vinegar bath, that may restore it if it is foreign matter that got stuck under the seat. If that inner container has lost its "juice", then the vent is scrap. Also, check to see if your overall steam pressure is set as low as possible and your pigtail under the pressure control has not clogged up.
Thank you for the video. Exactly what I was looking for.
Thank you for the video! I was interested in the construction of these valves and your videos fit the bill perfectly! Three years ago, as a first time homeowner, we purchased the cheap "IPS Angled Adjustable Steam Radiator Valve" to replace the broken one on our bedroom radiator. It split right along the seam a few weeks back. Sounded like a whistle train when it failed. Three years in service isn't too bad but, I figured that there must be better models. We just purchased a Gorton replacement.
A real American one lasts 70 years.
Thanks Gordon! Very informative video!
This was extremely useful information for my everyday life =)
I hope you're finding steam heating fun and enjoyable.
So that hoffman 75, when it cools down will it allow air back into the system? Thats definitely what was broken on my system allowing water and air to go both directions. Ive ordered a new one. Should be here tomorrow.
What size valve should you use in the basement just before the wet return in the basement
It depends on the size of the steam main and the length.
I would look at using at least a Gorton #1 (it has the same venting rate as the Hoffman #75).
Often, a Gorton #2 is a good idea (it is difficult to over vent a main)
Sometimes even just one #2 is not enough and you have to gang them up.
Very useful video. We have a steam radiator on the 4th floor that lets out air very very slowly. Is it possible to move the air out faster by adding 2 vent valves or a different one that moves air out faster?
You could try a faster vent.
What do you have on there now?
Sometimes, improving the main venting in the basement helps overall.
Sometimes, adding a dedicated "riser vent" can help get the air out, then a relatively small vent can work.
If you go with too fast of a vent on the problem radiator first, it might cause it to spit and grumble (ie it's possible to over-vent a radiator)
I still use Hoffman 1A's but use Gorton nos. 1 and 2 for mains and for hard to vent rads that are further off the mains and risers. 40s don't seem to vent fast enough, although sometimes slow is good. Thanks.
Thank you for showing us the insides of these vents and how they work! Much easier to see than “theory” or drawings in a book.
And how do you get such nice cuts when you cut them in half???
Thanks! So glad it was helpful.
I usually cut open two vents, one is cut open just to remove the inner part, and the other is cut longitudinally with a fine-toothed band-saw.
Why are the small brass tip that sticks out always bent when I get them new
I do not know for sure.
I suspect it might have something to do with packaging.
You might want to ask the manufacturer.
Let us know what they say.
Do u recommend this #40 air vent on vintage radiators ….. the boiler I have is from 1960 (peerless) …. A couple of years ago I needed up buying Dole air vents .
The answer is... It depends.
The #40 is a fixed (non adjustable) relatively "slow" vent.
A large radiator, column type, might heat up more with a faster vent.
A tube type radiator might heat up just fine with a slower vent (there is less air in a tube type raditor of the same EDR)
Where there is Air, there CANNOT be steam.
Make sure you have good steam main vents such as a Gorton #2.
👍👍👍thank you
Any advice on how to size air vents for heating coils for roof top units? Got a new job recently and finding a lot of screwy stuff here and I’d like to make it right.
Two Pipe or one pipe?
For roof-top units, the big thing is to make as sure as possible there is no trapped water in the coils, pipes etc at the end of the heating cycle.
Proper slope, vacuum breakers are needed esp if there is a zone valve!
It’s two pipe with modulating valves. I noticed the air vents were leaking and then realized instead of having one vent and one breaker there were two air vents. So seems to me somebody has been doing a lot of guessing here. I’ll be doing a full run down of these machines in the spring and hopefully get them back to their former glory
What does it mean when a steam radiator vent air valve is blowing steam out? Do I need to replace it?
@@nereydaruiz7348 Yes, pretty much.
Replace it asap, as it will cause your boiler to use more fresh water, shortening its life.
Would love to see you compare other models
My hoffman No 40, air steam vent, has started to spit water. I don't know what else to do because I have taken water that was inside, but it's still doing the same.
Is this at your house or your condo?
What pressure are you running your system?
What is the water level at the boiler?
It might also be a failed vent.
General question... as a rule of thumb how often should someone replace the air vents?
They *should* last for years.
If they let steam escape, they should be replaced, of course.
If they don't let air out and the radiator doesn't heat, the vent should be looked at, at least.
If the rate of vent failure seems too high, make sure your main vents are working and big enough.
Make sure you are running at low (less than 2 psi) pressure.
Also, stick with good quality vents.
@@gordonschweizer5154 It seems that hard water not treated in the boiler can expedite corrosion and muck build causing the vents to not behave properly.
@jazzcornertv Some folks have replaced their boiler water with de-ionized or even distilled water to avoid the over-mineralization of their steam system.
I am not an expert on doing this procedure.
My steam radiator has the standard Hoffman vent but the apt building is pre-war so the vent threads on the radiator itself are old and corroded so that it doesn’t tightly lock into place. Tonight the steam/pressure blew the Hoffman vent off of my radiator and now my bedroom is a sauna & the radiator is spitting water. Called my super but any tips on the interim? I’ve already tried tape on the vent threads and pitching the radiator as much as I possibly could
If the 1/8 NPT threads in your radiator are worn out, very likely a skilled plumber will need to be summoned to drill out and re-tap the raditor to 1/4 NPT and install a 1/4 x 1/8 bushing.
In the mean time, the radiator will need to be shut off.
@@gordonschweizer5154 For next time, as Gordon says, shut the valve if that's possible or hammer a wood plug into the vent hole.
Should the valve point up or down ( the hole at the end) when connected to your radiator? Does it matter?
The air vent hole should point up if you want the vent to work properly.
If you so desire, you can shut off the radiator by installing the vent with the hole pointing down.
@@gordonschweizer5154 Thank you for your reply. I found the radiator didn't work when it was pointing down. The maintenance man said it should point down and I didn't believe him.
can i replace a hoffman n40 with any other Gorton if i don't like this design? my large living room radiator is not heating up. maybe got water in it. the coming neck area is warm/hot, radiator is cold.
Did the radiator in question heat before and now it doesn't?
Is the radiator valve open all the way?
If yes to both, try removing the Hoffman 40, shaking out the water & putting it back.
@@gordonschweizer5154 probably it wasn't heating up before, because of water blocking that steam coming pipe. it was never a concern since the living is not the coldest area. actually, i did a vacuum on those shredded off pain chips yesterday, and twisted that stop valve a bit(its fully open clockwise, not sure if any thing broke in there). it has some play after that day. maybe is not real hot, because the room temperature has reached up to 71 on its setting, and the steam stopped. that vent been wising tho. could Hoffman No40 be replaced by a gorton #4 or something, that venting hole size look similar. unless that radiator is design for that type of vent for easier shut off.
Did I understand you that the valve is "fully open clockwise"? I think it is supposed to open when you turn the handle counter-clockwise?
@@gordonschweizer5154 uhoh.
@@gordonschweizer5154 well, its the stop valve. people who used to live here turned it off/my brother did it, thanks
If water enters Hoffman 40 AV is the vent unusable?
Usually not. You should be able to spin the vent off, shake out the water and put it back on.
I've found that there are 2 variations on the cheap USAV-884 vent. The smaller diameter one with the small adjustment screw, and the larger diameter one with the large adjustment screw. The large one is of considerably better quality and I have actually found they do a much better job of sealing against wet steam than others. At least until the bad near boiler piping can be fixed. The Durst SRV from Lowe's which is a Gorton clone is also useful for balancing a system. It comes with every size of orifice for $10. Would I use these on a properly running system, probably not. But to limp a leaky boiler through the winter they absolutely work, as well as to balance a system without buying a bunch of expensive Gortons. When they break they can be replaced with the real thing, now that you have an idea of what vent should go where.
I'm going to be installing a main vent on a small one pipe system. I'm thinking, Gorton #1 or a Hoffman #4A. There's a 1/2" tapping conveniently located on a tee, 15" from end of the dry return before it drops to the Hartford loop. Which vent would you choose?
Is that your only main? If so, I'd go with the Gorton #1 over the #4A. The 4A has pitiful air venting. How long and what size are your mains?
@@gordonschweizer5154 yes, only one 2" main. About 30 feet long. 1" dry return. 2+1/2" header, 1+1/2" equalizer.
Two story cape. New SGO-3. Going back to skim next week and install the new main vent.
@@gordonschweizer5154 just ordered the Gorton No.1 ☝️
Hi Gordon, I live on the 3rd floor and have steam heat, would you recommend the Hoffman #40 for all 9 of my radiators? As it is now I have those cheap Maid of the Mist ones and some radiators are not heating.
Did the non-heating radiators ever heat? Or did they stop heating recently?
@@gordonschweizer5154 Yes when I first moved in they did heat, then I had all the air valves changed one summer because I had a few that were hissing, seemed that would be a good upgrade. Unfortunately I used the Maid O Mist ones from the local hardware store.
@@joshr9417 What size orifice do you have on the M-o-Ms now?
@@gordonschweizer5154 Its the one that came with the valve the M-o-M Jacobus Steam Vent Model C.
I had one radiator in my bedroom that was totally cold, I just replaced the M-o-M with a Hoffman 40 and it sprung back to life after being cold since I moved in 2 years ago!! Its a miracle!
How would you know if the ones you have, need to be replaced or not ? Thanks in advance.
Thank you for your question.
Here are a few thoughts, by no means comprehensive:
A Radiator vent would need to be replaced for several reasons.
One would be if the radiator does not heat at all.
If you remove the vent while the boiler is making steam, and the radiator starts to get hot, the vent *may* have failed shut or had a drop of paint in the vent hole. (Painters are good at that.)
If the radiator heats, and the steam reaches the vent and steam continues to vent from it, the vent has failed open and, after shutting off the steam, the vent needs to be replaced.
Have you tested that Hoffman 2A valve to see if it holds vacuum?
We have about 20 new/old stock 2A Hoffman's. I tested them all. Four failed to hold a vacuum. Of those 4, two out and out leaked from the bottom seam from poor solder joints! Pretty high failure rate. "They don't make 'em like they used to" isn't always true.
I have hoffman 1A in my home my local dealer only have Hoffman 40, are the 40s ok to replace the 1As?
Hard to answer without knowing a bit more. Is your 1A failing? Does your radiator heat ok with that 1A?
What setting is your 1A on?
The Hoffman 40 is a slower vent (generally) than the 1A. Are your main steams large enough?
Quick question, Gordon…….do you recommend cleaning these on occasion using the “ Soak in Vinegar” method?
I myself have not had much success using the vinegar soak method.
That does not mean others won't.
It's always worth a try. I have seen where boiling Hoffman #40 vents in vinegar has nearly stripped the plating off of newer models
The Bob Ross of heating.
😆
Another good one, Gordon. Have you been using Groton vents?
Yes, I often use the Gorton #4, one of the slowest vents I know of, on small or over heating radiators.
Gortons are well made vents that work on a different internal mechanism from the Hoffman #40.
I hope to make a video on Gorton vents soon!
Thanks for the video! It's very helpful! One question, one of the #40 vent in a radiator in my home is getting very loud recently. Is it normal? Thanks in advance!
Hmm, probably not. So, question for you: Does that radiator heat all the way to the vent? If it is still hissing when the vent is almost too hot to touch, that indicates the vent has failed to close properly. It may be time for a replacement. Save the old vent and try putting it in a vinegar bath, that may restore it if it is foreign matter that got stuck under the seat. If that inner container has lost its "juice", then the vent is scrap. Also, check to see if your overall steam pressure is set as low as possible and your pigtail under the pressure control has not clogged up.
Never buy junk steam valves from any big box store, go to a plumbing supply house...
"Only rich people can afford to be cheap" is what I've been told.