@@The3DHandyman I'm working on my own, pid temperature control, custom pcb, lcd, csv temerature curves and so on. You gave me very valueable info. Thanks again. Will be waiting for other video
As some mentioned before, your machine performs perfectly fine. The problem is not how it is moulded, but what. You just cannot mould full 90 degree angles. Professional moulds are always slightly sloped and rounded on the edges. It also helps greatly if the moulded object has some small holes to ensure airflow also through the object itself.
Very true! Everything needs to be drafted to wok properly. I talk about it a bit in this video th-cam.com/video/T8bm8GvG3Tk/w-d-xo.html I'd like to do another update later this year. Thanks for the comment!
Shorten the distance you drop the plastic. And move the plastic ½ to 1" away from the heater even if it leaves a gap while heating. Get linear bearings off of Amazon. 33-36 a pair. Use neodymium magnets to hold tray in place that you first were going to use. Change the vacuum box configuration to a "Grease trap" style collector . Then attach 2 shop vacuums at the same time . Mount on a dual switch .
@@The3DHandyman I remember when Buffalo State plastics department got there's in , it was 1973 , what I learned it was important the plastic jiggled when it was ready. Like a bowl of pudding . When the plastic is to close to the heat it burns. Like slow roasting a marshmallow. You want the side of the plastic opposite the heat to get just as warm. It takes longer, but it isn't exactly a production situation.
You can bend those heating elements into any shape you want. I had a CNC guy who was making lead fishing weights and we made a custom shape heater element for him this way.
Very true. I bent a lot of elements in my day. They are filled with ceramic though and if you push them too far they can break, especially if they are seasoned.
(2:30) Excellent subtle transition between b-roll and 3D model, there dude. Clearly you have some skill in video production and modeling as well as DIY widgetty.
@@The3DHandyman You can also vary the distance between de heater en de material, more distance is less heat at once. Our Geiss has control on every heating element 40x150 mm ;-)
I am currently planning how to build a cross-countercurrent heat exchanger. The design is relatively simple and I also know how to structure the thermoforming foils so that they can simply be stacked and glued in a housing, so that you have four easy-to-use inputs / outputs. The structure of your vacuum former is ingeniously simple. What I have available is a vacuum pump (750W. 10CFM, 254 liters / minute) and a pressure equalization tank I still have to get, the current one will probably be too small. The round connector for the vacuum cleaner can be replaced by a smaller connector (as in the video at 15:08). This would then also reduce the volume of the lower box, so that less air has to be sucked out. I would then need many of these similar layers that are 1 meter x 30cm and only a few millimeters high. Such devices already exist, but they only run at temperatures down to -2 ° C and that is just unfavorable.
Thanks Mike! Building a heat exchanger sounds like an interesting project. You are right to want to make the connector smaller and the internal dimensions of the lower box as small as possible. This is especially important when using a vacuum tank which does not have an endless capacity like a vacuum cleaner. You can always test out your current vacuum tank before buying a new one, just in case. If cost is also an issue you can daisy chain two smaller tanks (one you already own) with the same effect as a large one. There are a few vacuum former builds out there with a lever that moves the plastic tray up and down. With my design a 1 meter wide pull might be a bit hard to grab ahold of on either side (it might also be just small enough). With a lever you can go as wide as you want. Also with a 1m wide tray you may want to use some steel tubing to reinforce the aluminum C-Channel (if you plan to use it) so that it does not flex in the center. My largest formers were about 64cm wide and the C-Channel was not enough on its own. If there is flex in the tray this might translate into parts that are slightly warped and if you want these to stack perfectly that might be an issue.
Thanks! I did this quite a bit over the summer and actually got very similar results to the method shown in this video. The pulls were maybe slightly better but it was hard to see a real difference. If I turn off the heater and turn on the vacuum before lowering the plastic tray it does effectively run on a single 20A circuit. It also obviously reduces power consumption as well. Both good things!
what you might need is an infrared panel, that might distribute and heat the plastic evenly. we use them in the screen printing industry to gel cure our plastisol and completely cure it on a conveyor dryer.
Maybe one idea for improvement: There are these large buckets for vacuum / de-gassing purposes that you can buy for like 150 bucks online. I'd first build a complete vacuum in one of those and then use that negative pressure directly on the vacuum-forming machine. This way, you can build up a volume of negative pressure beforehand and "unleash" it all at once on your vacuum forming process.
I will test this out! I have a 5 gallon vacuum degassing tank already. It may take me a few months to get to it, but I'll be making a new, larger former with a lot of upgrades.
@@The3DHandyman I was thinking the same thing, get an actual decent vacuum in a tank and build a valve that's held closed by atmospheric pressure but with a spring pushing it open. Once the shop vac pulls out most of the air the reduced pressure will allow the spring to pop open the other valve and lower the pressure further with the buffer tank. You would need a big check valve on the shop vac connection as well and to minimize the volume of the space between them. One downside is that the limited capacity means whatever you're vacuum forming needs to be closed on the bottom as well to avoid increasing the amount of air that needs to be removed by the buffer tank.
@@AndrewMerts I'll need to think about the switch between the two vacuum systems. I used to have a cheap check valve in my old vacuum formers but I never thought it worked sealed correctly when the high vacuum was engaged. I might already have an idea...
great detailed, I have some tips for you : 1. To minimize the cost for vacuum you can use dual vacum configuration : 1st is using cheap impeller vacuum to move large air, and you can parallel with diaphragm dc vacuum or modified aquarium pump. but I recomended to use 2pcs cheap dc 12v diaphragm vacuum (cost only $5 each). the concept is your impller vacuum job to move large air, and dc diaphragm vacuum to suck little but strong. 2. Since you sell this unit, is good to have some protection like fuse or ground cable on the chassis. cheers
this was awesome thank you. Fantastic production value and all round greatness. What are the thickness limits on a design like this one? Last week I made a simple vacuum forming setup to hopefully form 10mm acrylic. The plastic went white and then set like rock before I managed to pull it over my buck! I learned that i need to dry the material first. And about 50 other important points and had to abandon that particular mission, for now. Really glad to discover your video.
Thanks, happy to hear it helped! As for 10mm acrylic.... that is going to be very challenging. The thickest I have ever worked with is 5mm ABS and that was not easy. I'm not even sure this is possible without a much more complex machine and very high vacuum and lots of it. It will help if the shape is quite simple... like a hemisphere or something. If it's complex, you might be better off tying a resin pour or something. You are going to have to put so much heat into the sheet to make it formable, getting the plastic dry enough to prevent bubbles might be near impossible. You are at difficulty level 1000 with that project, my friend.
@@The3DHandyman Thanks for your response and guidance. A lot of things I try seem to have difficulty level 1000 so just another day! The shape is basically a brick so very simple and I made a pushing die to help stretch the hot plastic downward. I am making a housing for a gadget that needs to hold some pressure, along with having some chemical resistance which is why I chose Acrylic, so although that was a fine idea of yours, I don't reckon resin will do it. But if I use thinner sheet, then Resin Pour or chopweave and glass the outside to strengthen it, that will surely do it. Secondly since we all already have vacuum and heaters, I wonder if it would be possible to make a smallish pressure box that fits the cut sheets. Then vacuum distil the sheet to more quickly and thoroughly dry the sheets than the conventional method? i.e. water boils at a lower temperature under vacuum without degrading the makeup of the materials being distilled. This might greatly reduce drying times in an oven. Vacuum distillation even works on metals so I reckon it would in this instance. And finally, this Comments section is awesome. It's so rich in information. A lot of experienced people have chimed in with little titbits that have confirmed a few things in my head. Well done inspiring that in people.
@@waynoswaynos Happy to have inspired! Removing the water with a vacuum sound interesting. Let me know how that process goes. I wouldn't the gas bubbles that form under vacuum would have enough strength to crack the acrylic. I wonder how long you would have to leave the material in the vacuum. If it works well, I can dehydrate my 3D printing filament this way!
Of everything I've learned on making my own vacuum former by watching many videos from many makers is that I'm willing to save up the money and buy one.
Cool build. As someone who deals with High Vacuum weekly (1x10^-7) there's doesn't seem to be a good reason you're not pulling negative pressure when you drop the plastic over the vacuum plate (You will never see any negative pressure if your vacuum plate isn't actively under load). Since wood is so porous, I'm curious if brushing a few layers of epoxy (You could impregnate it with Cactus Resin, but you're cost will go WAY up, and it's probably not worth the time/effort in this application) and some silicone around the edges would improve your vacuum. As far as the heating of the plastic, you might want to look/play with distance between your heat element and spreader. Remember; Your heating element is not only heating air, but also releasing infrared radiation. So not only do you have analogy for light (Infrared), but so also have analogy for sound (heating of the air); both want to travel outwards from the source in a spherical shape that expands (In the case of sound, it expands twice as fast as the distance it travels [squared]) as it gets further from the source. If you put the element too close, you're superheating small sections of the Heat Spreader because you're not giving the heat enough travel distance to expand.
Yeah, I think my plastic-over-platen method of closing off air flow was flawed. I'll do something more scientific for the next iteration, whenever I can get to it. People have commented with better heating concepts that I'll try out. The one in the video was easy but not that good. Those elements are also very difficult to find now. I may have mistakenly made a bunch of old electric grills obsolete by making this video. Party fowl. Thanks for the ideas and the comment!
Did anybody try another vacuum approach that I would call 'shock vacuuming'. The idea is that the vac is already running but the hose is connected at the moment of thermoforming. Another approach would be to have a wide opening on one side of the vacuum box that can be closed by a door on hinges controlled by your feet. This will lead to a rapid forming taking advantage of the inertia already present in the system. I posted my comment / idea under this video because it is by far one of the most useful. Thanks for that.
Thanks for the comment and ideas! I didn't have my foot pedal for the last 20 or so pulls that I did and I went with the "shock vacuuming" approach instead and it worked pretty much the same. The hinged door idea is interesting! The concept sounds like it might work. I'll probably make another machine sometime next year and try to incorporate some of the ideas in the comments.
Watched all of the info. Tip that may help. Have you thought of using aluminum diffuser in the heating element to spread the hot spot out from center to the corners giving you a more controlled n even hot zone. Used this is powder coating oven that would have hot zones which would cause uneven flow n curing.
I remember the heat elements that I had my eye on years ago had that style diffuser. It's a great idea but it may just be better to go with a different style of heat element in the next build.
I may be a little late on this, but I have a suggestion that may help with the heating element. You could line the inside of the baking tray with gold foil heat shielding tape used in automotive use, as it would reflect far more of the heat onto the heat spreader more evenly compared to only insulating the outside :)
@BrokenAnvil Any time! 3mm is getting pretty thick. This design overall should still work but it may need an excessive amount of time to heat up the plastic. With thicker plastics the "voids" between the heat element and the sides of the heater hood may result in the plastic not getting up to forming temperature in the corners. This can cause failure of the seal at the edge of the platen in this design. I have not used the heating coils (that look like a stretched out spring) on one of my designs before but that may be a better choice for thick plastics like 3mm. The benefit is that you can run the coils right up to the edge of the heater hood to avoid dead spots. My only success with 3mm + materials was on simple objects that did not fill up the build platform/platen. The mold needed the extra material around it to get a mold that had decent uniform thickness. Also a vacuum tank is ideal for getting detail in thick plastics like this as well. Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions
I think the deformed excess plastic sheet at the lower edge of the mold is not only about the reasons you mentioned. Adding up holes on the mold near by the lower area most likely solve the problem of deformation
Great information. Thanks very much for that. I'm looking to make a 24" x 24" model and trying to work out the heater design at the moment. Trying to figure out how to get an even heat at that size without ending up with too much current draw by multiple heating elements. Have you ever setup a heater this size?
The largest I made was a 20"x24" unit that used 2x120v (3600watts) or 1x240v (2500watts) heaters. The 3600 watt setup worked a lot better than the 2500watt. If you insulate the heater really well it might be possible to run it with less but it might be a gamble on weather or not it works. If the heater is underpowered it might take an excessive amount of time to heat the plastic if it does at all. I have never worked with wire heating elements but there seem to be some advantages to those. It might be something to look into. Maybe Adam Savages vacuum former video talks a bit about that?
make a single hole with multiple platform boxes in different sizes with custom frames to fit them so you can vac form smaller things without wasting plastic. Then you can also make boxes that have just one big hole instead of being perferated so you can draw vacuum bubbles/domes that are perfectly clear, or if you offset the hole you can make pear shapes/canopee shapes.
When you turn on the shopvac you're also having to pull vacuum in the entire volume of the shop vac & hose as well as the vac former base. Turning the shopvac on ahead of time before lowering the plastic and having a large diameter ball valve directly on the body of the vac former will allow vacuum to be pulled in the former much quicker as the hose and shopvac tank will already be 'vaccumised'. --- But yeah, years ago I made a two-stage vac former which had a shopvac with valve as above, and also an old freezer compressor attached to a scrap compressor tank. The tank would hold a high vacuum which would be applied just after the shopvac had done it's thing. ...While waiting for the heating element & plastic to get up to temperature you'd pull a decent partial vacuum in the vac tank. As soon as the plastic is placed on the bed you'd open the shopvac valve for a second or two which would pull out do the bulk of the forming and remove as much air as it could, then you'd close that valve and at the same time open a valve to the vacuum tank which would apply a much stronger vacuum. Leaks mean this level of vacuum won't stay for long so shortly after you'd open the shopvac valve again then maintain a low-level vacuum from the shopvac while the plastic cools (you needed three hands to juggle all of the above so I wanted to add solenoids and computerise these first two stages ...but never got around to it). Finally a third (optional) step would be to close the shopvac valve again and a third valve attached to an airline would positively pressurise the chamber and pop the plastic off the mould (in cases where the mould was fixed down to the base).
Very nice job on this. To get a stronger/better pull do away with the peg board and us some Aluminum T-Shaped Tile Edging Trim and make a supporting frame out of that flat side down so that you'll get a better pull through the vent holes on your metal mesh. That peg slows air volume down to much. I did something like this for a small custom powder coat oven for long small parts. But i used angle iron instead of aluminum. I welded them into 4" squared cubes to circulate hot air from the top down to the bottom with a fan rated for ovens. I wanted a strong floor to hold racks on.
It's not a "Resistor" that gets hot, but the Triac, a component, which can turn power on and off very quickly. The fan speed controller got hot, because fan speed controllers are designed for loads around 100-200W. Your heater is more than that. It is not "excess power" but over current, which causes the heat.
Fun Fact about 20 years ago I made a 2'x4' vacuum form machine from plans I found and it along with a ShopBot cnc router made a killing making lighting products for Arby's, Wendy's , Sonic, etc, etc... I learned later on that it worked better than several mass produced units I came across. If I remember correctly I had about $300 bucks in it.
To prevent webbing use a pusher frame around the mold with enough clearance for the plastic. It should be preheated as well as the mold. As soon as the plastic contacts the mold it freezes and the perimeter stretches thin. Old school vacuum former from the 70's here, forming 15 foot pylon sign faces to deep draw letters all on a vacuum table, by hand.
Great to know. I'm not sure how well a 3D printed mold would hold up to preheating. It would probably warp or lose dimensional accuracy. Thanks for the comment! I actually talked with someone today that had all sorts of things to say about vacuum forming signs. It must be that kind of day.
@@The3DHandymanuse the 3d printer to make a mould that you can then pour vacuum forming resin into. Thanks for the tip of the heat spreader, never thought of that myself
I worked on 8'x9' too 3'x'3 VFM for years. 50% percent of a good pull is your Buck. You need to have a contoured riser lifting the buck up to make the fold fall lower past the object area. Your machine is fine.
Nice detailed explanations. A good source of perforated sheet metal is from a discarded microwave oven door. Also, I don’t know the reason why you don’t start the vacuum before you bring down the sheet over the buck. Not doing so allows cooling of the plastic sheet on the buck before the vacuum can do its job.
Thank you! I lost the foot pedal switch in a move last year and ended up using the vacuum former without it. Not sure if it worked noticeably better with the vacuum on ahead of time but it definitely didn't need that feature. Thanks for the comment!
Huge documentation, maybe i recomend you to use some kind of seal when you put down the plastic, before you vacuum it, sometimes the vacuum dont work as well if theres some spaces, a plastic seal would help you to acomplish what you need.
As a thought... What about adding a frame with ceramic tiles to the heating unit. It will take the tiles a while to get up to temp, but once they are, the temperature would be evenly distributed. I have also seen other sources use electric IR patio heaters as a heat source. This of course brings the cost up, but appears to produce much more even heat.
OHH I like this build. I have wanted to build one like this, but I have been trouble ironing out the details in my head, especially the heating element. What I love about this design too, that I built with my first (and want for my next ), is you stretch the plastic over the edges when pulled down. Additionally, I am happy to learn I can get 110V heating elements (a 220V would be a problem for me). Lastly, could you have NOT used peg board and drilled your own? That way you have a larger surface area of holes to pull down the plastic. Mine was small, and I used a standard home vacuum cleaner. I also had to pull them out a microwave oven ( would have the vacuum on before the pull). However, it pulled REALLY well for me as long as I made sure to not let the plastic cool too quickly (which to be honest, due to the drooping and lack of space to allow it, it probably was too cold to begin with).
Thanks! I hope to make a new version of this with different heating elements later this year. The gill element I used is hard to source at this point. You can definitely make your own pegboard. Anything with lots of holes in it works well. If the material is thick then you don't need a support structure behind it like I used in this video.
Great content, thanks for your efforts. Am intending to get a commercial one for large wall deco stuff, i watched on instagram a business of dashboard that uses vacuoforming and they were using a machine that was more rectangular due to their applications' nature. Anyways, is there a commercial entity you'd recommend for getting a reliable machine from at an adequate price ? Thanks again for your efforts.
Thanks for watching! Textured wall panels are a great application for this sort of product. I can't say that I am familiar with many brands that make large format machines, always built them myself. That is by far the least expensive option.
the magnets loose there hold when they get hot prolly make some clamps form spring steel that mount to the side of the heater setup and hook under the frame holding the plastic in a way that a small jerk up or down will let the frame slip passed it
Hi, I thought he was going to put something like that into the handles. So you would push in the handle or a slider to lock it into place, then when you are ready, pull the handles/ sliders out to release.
If someone hasn't posted already; all you need for vacuum is any three stage vacuum motor. This will get you 4.5 to 5.5 psi. Your shop vac has about 3 to 3.5 psi. Your dust collector has less than 1/4 psi. I used to know the model of 7.2 " Lamb vac motor used in many commercial vac forming machines. It is135 in. Of water lift. Which is 4.6 psi. You did better with the shop vac than I ever did. Don't cheap out here. I think I saw a 5.7" Lamb vac motor (136 in.), for $114. If you habe a central vac, you may have this kind of suction.
Never thought about a central vac as an option. Good thought! I hope I can make a new vacuum former this year, but I'm not sure I can fit it into the schedule at this point. Thanks for the comment!
Thanks! It was a bit outside the scope of the project at the time. I do really like the idea and I might try it out at some point. A need for large vacuum formers seems to keep popping up.
Thanks! I purchased my .06" Clear PETG at eplastics.com US Plastics and Professional Plastics are other options in the US. If you are outside of the US it's best to find a local supplier. If you need less plastic than a full sheet (4ft x 8ft) then you can do an internet search for smaller amounts.
I'm sure you know by now that air flow isn't as important as the amount of vacuum you can draw. Instead of measuring wind velocity, it's more beneficial to have a vacuum gauge. I found an old shark brand upright vacuum that draws more vacuum than my $300 Fein shop vac. I've vacuum formed for years without a vacuum pump but they are much cheaper now and you don't need to get your material nearly as hot. I really like your platen with the cross bracing underneath the peg board and I never thought of using the perforated aluminum. Thanks for the great video.
@@The3DHandyman 1/8" ABS. The Shark doesn't make a big difference, only the vacuum gauge can probably tell, lol. I'm having to heat it to about 390 degrees fahrenheit with infrared electric and it starts to bubble around 405. I think with an actual vacuum pump I could drop the temp by 100 degrees.
@@buckylaine 1/8" is as thick as I've gone on a machine like mine. I made a battery compartment from for an e-bike back in '06. The shape was simple, to say the least. My air compressor died a while ago and I'm thinking that I should have saved that tank for a vacuum tank! Either that or I will go with .04" PETG for the mushroom packaging. Easier detail with less expense.
14:40 The wood is just a very fine air filter! You need to seal it well with 2 part resin then it will be ok with a shop vac, not the best but good. What you are doing with using a more robust vacuum system is like adding a oil tank to a car that's burning a lot oil - the engine doesn't run out of oil but the problem is not addressed. Fix the burning oil, that is the problem.
Have you tried sealing the plywood both inside and out of the vaccum chamber with polyurethane? I believe air escapes through plywood. Also maybe shorten the shop vac hose to achieve more negative pressure
You are definitely right about shortening the length of hose on the vacuum. The shorter the better! It may be that the plywood is slightly permeable but if there are no distinct cracks in the surface, my guess would be that this wouldn't have much of an effect. If I were using mid grade or lower ply from home depot or similar I would expect this to be more of a issue but not so much with Baltic Birch.
Thank you! Maybe at some point once I get some things out of the way. Would you like the idea of a kit or fully built? At the moment the heating element that I used is unavailable, so I would need to figure out a workaround for that.
@@The3DHandyman Fully built would be ideal, as you do quality job, but we can benefit from your idea of a kit also. I have a research lab that has access to the Centroform - EZFORM SV 1217 Vacuum Forming Machine, but their forming area is too small (12"x17"); we need to extend it to 20"24". We've already improved the vacuum system for a more powerful one, and currently looking for ways to make a larger heating area. We would be willing to buy the heating part only, too, if that's easier or quicker to built for you.
@@hadikhan2000 Awesome! I am familiar with EZFORM's products. Currently fulfilling orders for the MycoSERIES that I did some videos on. That will take me through the end of the July. When do you need the vacuum former?
@@The3DHandyman I was hoping to have it early July, as we are a fast-pace group. Would that be possible for you? Also, could you give us an estimate for the 24"x20" heating box?
@@hadikhan2000 Sorry for the very late reply! I just got back from a much needed vacation. As we are already in early July, I unfortunately can not pull off that request. Making this machine will take me to until at least the end of August at this point. There is just to much going on at the moment. If that will work for you, let me know and I will put together a quote. Sorry again for not getting back to you sooner!
Wow! Thanks for this incredibly detailed build demonstration. I’m sure you’re very busy but if you would be interested in thermo forming a small item for me I am in need of this service. Looked into building or buying one but the cost doesn’t make sense at this point. If you are interested in supporting this request, please let me know and we can iron out the details. Thanks Tyler
Hi! I would like to under normal conditions, but lately things have been anything but normal. There is just too much on my plate at the moment to imagine adding anything else. Maybe later this year, I could, but a lot of monumental tasks need to go perfectly for that to happen. If there is a maker space in your area you might be able to work with them on your project. Just a thought. Best of luck with it!
Great start, you need to consider better ways to remove your plastic when done forming. This is probably the biggest weakness of home made machines. A flaw that everyone seems to copy when designing home machines. Professional machines have a way to secure your buck/form/mold down for a reason, easier part removal. But that also requires a well designed buck with good draft angles. Also consider something to block the holes on your platen so you draw air only through areas around your buck. You don't need to have a perfectly formed shape of your web catchers. So if air isn't removed from there as well it makes part removal easier. You also don't thin your overall sheet out as much during forming because it doesn't have to cover as much surface area forming to the shape of the catchers. Good luck!
No doubt! The plastic was destroyed each time the block of wood was removed. I had planned on having the prototype packaging video be part of this but the timing just didn't work out. Once this video does come out it will feature most of the things you have mentioned. My 3D printed tool is fully drafted and would eject cleanly...if I hadn't attempted to paint it. That part was a poor choice. Otherwise the resulting parts were good enough drop a couple of sample products into the mail.... with no damage in shipping (the most important part) Great notes on the web catchers and securing the part to the surface of the platen! I suppose with the large dust port on the back I could stick my hand in there to secure a bolt to the underside. For the 3D printed tool I am able to bump it on the top side to remove it from the plastic... except when the paint fuses to the plastic. Maybe a future update could include replaceable platens for more pointed hole placement. I would say that the unused areas of the platen could be taped off with some foil tape but that would likely result in a sticky mess once heated.
Cool Video. Thanks. What is the max heat temp you need? Have you tried silicon heating pads? Might be too slow to get to temp? The one for my 3d printer is rated for 230c. Is that a hot enough temp? I use the silicon heat pad adhered to a 1/4" plate aluminum. It provides a very well distributed heat surface.
This was a completely random suggestion however I really like the video! Of course, this video being a random suggestion I have not watched any videos that are more recent. With that said, have you tried using one of the “cheap” vacuum pumps and an air tank? That would give you near instant vacuum and if you want to slow the vacuum rate you can reduce the air line between the platen(sp?).
I tried that setup long ago and didn't have a big enough tank or a perfect enough seal to make it really effective. Hopefully I can build a new vacuum former this year and try out some new concepts.
great video with amazing detail to your trouble shooting process. Would be interesting to see a mold produced via 3d printing or machining to be used on this DIY vacuum former. Was the total build costs $800 at the end of the video due to the vacuum pump required?
Thanks! I worked quite a bit with 3D printed molds on this project. Here's the video th-cam.com/video/T8bm8GvG3Tk/w-d-xo.html Yes, with a vacuum pump and a large ballast tank you can easily spend that much. These days the price might be more reasonable for a budget build especially if you use a small vacuum pump and just wait a while for the tank to charge. The machine as I used it only cost about $450 including the cost of the shop vac
I have not. This might be the sort of things where it would be best to charge up a take with a high vacuum so that it can be released in and instant. The displacement pumps I'm looking at only produce up to 5cfm and that's a bit low. You could do a shop vac/displacement pump hybrid design but you have to have a system to close out the high flow/low vacuum system from the low flow/high vacuum system so you don't lose pressure. I think its just more simple to go with a large vacuum tank that you charge up with a simple vacuum pump. Have you worked with them much?
No momento não estou vendendo a máquina. Precisa de trabalho e, no momento, não tenho tempo para entrar em produção nisso. Eu posso ter tempo mais tarde neste sim ou no próximo. Até então, meu site tem planos para esta unidade que você pode baixar gratuitamente se tiver alguém para fazer isso para você.
really cool thanks for this. I like longer videos, this 10min videos as a new trend that is on TH-cam its so terrible. So thanks for your work. And why you don't add a Temperature sensor to the heater ? to get heat the plastic sheets more gently
Thanks! I agree, it's difficult to be reasonably thorough in 10 minutes unless the subject is simple. The trouble is that for good watch percentage on a video the ideal length is 6 minutes or less. That said...I'm really happy that this video has taken off lately, it has convinced me that I should do another build. I'll be sure to add a temperature sensor to it! Thanks for the comment!
Sounds interesting! I didn't actually know that was a thing. Is it for subwoofer enclosures? I can look into it. I have a lot of air filter related content in the pipe but I hope to do more vacuum forming videos next year some time.
@@The3DHandyman after reading up some more it looks like the thermoforming used for hard cases is usually done with EVA foam but you cover the eva foam beforehand with fabric. For textured fabric finishes you can use a sandwich of fabric and foam in the middle, I'm not sure what type of foam you need in the middle but seems you can use a wide range. And then for felt, seems like using that is also possible, I've seen one video where they make car parts with the same sandwich technique and recycled felt as the middle layer.
Using kanthal coil would be a cheap improvement for your heater. It's easy to work with, and would let you fine tune your heater's size, shape, and power. Second, smaller vacuums actually pull with higher pressures, so that may be something to experiment with. Finally, working to reduce the pulled volume's geometry could result in residual gains (thinner aluminum top platform, parabolic bottom made of thin plywood bent around with shapers, internal geometries that soak up space without reducing air flow).
Dumb question most likely, but could you not make it so that the heating element and it's enclosure, follow the plastic down the guide rails until it's closer to the mould (thingy), maybe using two extra adjustable depth stops to control how far the element descends before it separates from the form material frame? I'm just thinking it might by one a little longer in terms of keeping the plastic at a formable temperature by reducing the distance to the work piece? (not that I have a clue what I'm talking about because I've never even seen one of these before, let alone used one!😁)
Good question! It may help in some ways but the complexity of the build would definitely go up. It's also desirable to have the plastic cool quickly to improve cycle time if you are doing a lot of forming. Really this machine just lacks high vacuum. Not an insurmountable issue, just an expensive one!
Thanks! I've used US plastics, Eplastics, and Professional Plastics. Depending on where you are and what you are buying the prices and options will vary a bit between them. All are good to work with
I have no idea how I got here, but I’m so impressed.
That's quite a complement. Thank you kindly 😎
Wow
Me too, but I want one, but I can't think of a practical application for me yet ! 😂
That real to 3d model transition was so clean
fantastic build, nicely explained with tips and hints!!, moreover plans also shared , great thinking, more generous, hats off and keep rocking.
What a thorough video! I really appreciate the effort!
Thanks for taking the time to share ):
Thank you for the vast education. Great video indeed.
This is a masterclass in CAD and animation. The first 4 minutes are one continuous skill flex. And that monotone delivery... ❤ I'm going to subscribe.
Just subbed! There's a ton of thought and work put into your videos and it shows man. Thank you so much!
Terrific instructional video. Thanks for uploading.
I’m very impressed with your testing breakdown!
Thanks! There is a follow up video on making 3D printed molds that gets into even more detail
th-cam.com/video/T8bm8GvG3Tk/w-d-xo.html
great explaination thak you. gave me an insight into the components that make up this form of plastic frming thank you
Interesting process. Economy of scale for sure, its a great tool for a creative mind. Nice design thank you for sharing this. Cheers!
Very Nice Build and technical walk through. Video is excellent quality. The animation is a great touch. Thanks for Sharing!
Thank you very much!
I hadn't considered reducing the volume by the slanted board. Very clever!
We are in the presence of a master
What a well documented, professional build! Thanks for sharing this!
Thanks! Any time
Thank you. Very informative.
Man...that vacuum former look awsome!!!
Thanks for that fine comment! Warms my soul.
شكرا لك على هذا العمل الرائعة جدا جدا جدا جدا جدا 😘
Thanks to the great algorithm for bringing me here! You’ve gained a sub
Great video and well presented..
I made a unit similar to yours and had the same issues. I added covers over the unused hole to close them off, and this made it work perfectly.
Good tip!
Nice use of thermal imaging to verify the process!
You sir just earned my subscription with one video. Great content!
Happy to have you! I am hoping to have another vacuum forming video out in a month or two 👍
@@The3DHandyman I'm working on my own, pid temperature control, custom pcb, lcd, csv temerature curves and so on. You gave me very valueable info. Thanks again. Will be waiting for other video
@@RokasSondaras Sounds awesome
Havent finish the video yet. But that opening animation was tv quality. Very well done!
Thank you very much! It is one of my passions
Great video. You can cut expended metal with a grinder and cutoff wheel btw.
Good tip! If you want to keep the place clean, its best to do the grinding outside.
I am noob. Thanks for the detail. Lots of good design tips.
Happy to help!
As some mentioned before, your machine performs perfectly fine. The problem is not how it is moulded, but what. You just cannot mould full 90 degree angles. Professional moulds are always slightly sloped and rounded on the edges. It also helps greatly if the moulded object has some small holes to ensure airflow also through the object itself.
Very true! Everything needs to be drafted to wok properly. I talk about it a bit in this video th-cam.com/video/T8bm8GvG3Tk/w-d-xo.html
I'd like to do another update later this year. Thanks for the comment!
Shorten the distance you drop the plastic. And move the plastic ½ to 1" away from the heater even if it leaves a gap while heating. Get linear bearings off of Amazon. 33-36 a pair. Use neodymium magnets to hold tray in place that you first were going to use. Change the vacuum box configuration to a "Grease trap" style collector . Then attach 2 shop vacuums at the same time . Mount on a dual switch .
I'm hoping to do another vacuum former build this summer. Will keep all that in mind!
@@The3DHandyman I remember when Buffalo State plastics department got there's in , it was 1973 , what I learned it was important the plastic jiggled when it was ready. Like a bowl of pudding . When the plastic is to close to the heat it burns. Like slow roasting a marshmallow. You want the side of the plastic opposite the heat to get just as warm. It takes longer, but it isn't exactly a production situation.
awesome video thank you i love 3d printing
Thank you. I love it as well 👍
Muito obrigado por disponibilizar seu projeto para a comunidade!!
En cualquier momento. ¡Gracias por ver!
@@The3DHandyman With the viewership and money you're making on these videos you should hire a narrator. This text to speech stuff is terrible.
@@bashkillszombies Lol. With this viewership I can afford 1 free bowl of cereal a day. The voice is also my own, haha
This kind of videos are the few that makes internet valuable over tiktok and tons of bullshit. Many thanks. You are awesome
Thanks. My thoughts exactly!
You can bend those heating elements into any shape you want. I had a CNC guy who was making lead fishing weights and we made a custom shape heater element for him this way.
Very true. I bent a lot of elements in my day. They are filled with ceramic though and if you push them too far they can break, especially if they are seasoned.
(2:30) Excellent subtle transition between b-roll and 3D model, there dude. Clearly you have some skill in video production and modeling as well as DIY widgetty.
I do like obsessing over the details, thanks for noticing :)
great video!
good one
This is awesome
Thanks much, I'll be making more vacuum former content some time this year
You can ad an variac on the heater.
Faster heating can be problematic.
I love the thermo views!
Good call on the Variac! That's exactly what I need
@@The3DHandyman You can also vary the distance between de heater en de material, more distance is less heat at once.
Our Geiss has control on every heating element 40x150 mm ;-)
I am currently planning how to build a cross-countercurrent heat exchanger. The design is relatively simple and I also know how to structure the thermoforming foils so that they can simply be stacked and glued in a housing, so that you have four easy-to-use inputs / outputs.
The structure of your vacuum former is ingeniously simple.
What I have available is a vacuum pump (750W. 10CFM, 254 liters / minute) and a pressure equalization tank I still have to get, the current one will probably be too small.
The round connector for the vacuum cleaner can be replaced by a smaller connector (as in the video at 15:08).
This would then also reduce the volume of the lower box, so that less air has to be sucked out.
I would then need many of these similar layers that are 1 meter x 30cm and only a few millimeters high.
Such devices already exist, but they only run at temperatures down to -2 ° C and that is just unfavorable.
Thanks Mike! Building a heat exchanger sounds like an interesting project. You are right to want to make the connector smaller and the internal dimensions of the lower box as small as possible. This is especially important when using a vacuum tank which does not have an endless capacity like a vacuum cleaner.
You can always test out your current vacuum tank before buying a new one, just in case. If cost is also an issue you can daisy chain two smaller tanks (one you already own) with the same effect as a large one.
There are a few vacuum former builds out there with a lever that moves the plastic tray up and down. With my design a 1 meter wide pull might be a bit hard to grab ahold of on either side (it might also be just small enough). With a lever you can go as wide as you want. Also with a 1m wide tray you may want to use some steel tubing to reinforce the aluminum C-Channel (if you plan to use it) so that it does not flex in the center. My largest formers were about 64cm wide and the C-Channel was not enough on its own. If there is flex in the tray this might translate into parts that are slightly warped and if you want these to stack perfectly that might be an issue.
Nice build. A PID controller that switches a relay could be found for about $20 and that solves the overheating issue.
Thanks for the idea!
I used a 220 volt dryer heater coil for the heating element it worked great.
I used to use these for my largest vacuum formers. They put out a ton of heat. Fine choice!
Nice video, thanks for the thermocam. I think u should try to turn the vacum before lowing the plastic to prevent loosing heat
Thanks! I did this quite a bit over the summer and actually got very similar results to the method shown in this video. The pulls were maybe slightly better but it was hard to see a real difference.
If I turn off the heater and turn on the vacuum before lowering the plastic tray it does effectively run on a single 20A circuit. It also obviously reduces power consumption as well. Both good things!
what you might need is an infrared panel, that might distribute and heat the plastic evenly. we use them in the screen printing industry to gel cure our plastisol and completely cure it on a conveyor dryer.
Great idea! I'll keep this in mind for my next build
Maybe one idea for improvement: There are these large buckets for vacuum / de-gassing purposes that you can buy for like 150 bucks online. I'd first build a complete vacuum in one of those and then use that negative pressure directly on the vacuum-forming machine. This way, you can build up a volume of negative pressure beforehand and "unleash" it all at once on your vacuum forming process.
I will test this out! I have a 5 gallon vacuum degassing tank already. It may take me a few months to get to it, but I'll be making a new, larger former with a lot of upgrades.
@@The3DHandyman Please do share your results, I would love to see it!
@@The3DHandyman I was thinking the same thing, get an actual decent vacuum in a tank and build a valve that's held closed by atmospheric pressure but with a spring pushing it open. Once the shop vac pulls out most of the air the reduced pressure will allow the spring to pop open the other valve and lower the pressure further with the buffer tank. You would need a big check valve on the shop vac connection as well and to minimize the volume of the space between them. One downside is that the limited capacity means whatever you're vacuum forming needs to be closed on the bottom as well to avoid increasing the amount of air that needs to be removed by the buffer tank.
@@AndrewMerts I'll need to think about the switch between the two vacuum systems. I used to have a cheap check valve in my old vacuum formers but I never thought it worked sealed correctly when the high vacuum was engaged. I might already have an idea...
In case of white sheet there is vaccum finishing problem in 4corners
great detailed, I have some tips for you :
1. To minimize the cost for vacuum you can use dual vacum configuration : 1st is using cheap impeller vacuum to move large air, and you can parallel with diaphragm dc vacuum or modified aquarium pump. but I recomended to use 2pcs cheap dc 12v diaphragm vacuum (cost only $5 each). the concept is your impller vacuum job to move large air, and dc diaphragm vacuum to suck little but strong.
2. Since you sell this unit, is good to have some protection like fuse or ground cable on the chassis.
cheers
Great ideas. Thanks for the comment!
this was awesome thank you. Fantastic production value and all round greatness. What are the thickness limits on a design like this one? Last week I made a simple vacuum forming setup to hopefully form 10mm acrylic. The plastic went white and then set like rock before I managed to pull it over my buck! I learned that i need to dry the material first. And about 50 other important points and had to abandon that particular mission, for now. Really glad to discover your video.
Thanks, happy to hear it helped! As for 10mm acrylic.... that is going to be very challenging. The thickest I have ever worked with is 5mm ABS and that was not easy. I'm not even sure this is possible without a much more complex machine and very high vacuum and lots of it. It will help if the shape is quite simple... like a hemisphere or something. If it's complex, you might be better off tying a resin pour or something.
You are going to have to put so much heat into the sheet to make it formable, getting the plastic dry enough to prevent bubbles might be near impossible.
You are at difficulty level 1000 with that project, my friend.
@@The3DHandyman Thanks for your response and guidance. A lot of things I try seem to have difficulty level 1000 so just another day!
The shape is basically a brick so very simple and I made a pushing die to help stretch the hot plastic downward. I am making a housing for a gadget that needs to hold some pressure, along with having some chemical resistance which is why I chose Acrylic, so although that was a fine idea of yours, I don't reckon resin will do it. But if I use thinner sheet, then Resin Pour or chopweave and glass the outside to strengthen it, that will surely do it.
Secondly since we all already have vacuum and heaters, I wonder if it would be possible to make a smallish pressure box that fits the cut sheets. Then vacuum distil the sheet to more quickly and thoroughly dry the sheets than the conventional method? i.e. water boils at a lower temperature under vacuum without degrading the makeup of the materials being distilled. This might greatly reduce drying times in an oven. Vacuum distillation even works on metals so I reckon it would in this instance.
And finally, this Comments section is awesome. It's so rich in information. A lot of experienced people have chimed in with little titbits that have confirmed a few things in my head. Well done inspiring that in people.
@@waynoswaynos Happy to have inspired!
Removing the water with a vacuum sound interesting. Let me know how that process goes. I wouldn't the gas bubbles that form under vacuum would have enough strength to crack the acrylic. I wonder how long you would have to leave the material in the vacuum. If it works well, I can dehydrate my 3D printing filament this way!
simple upgrade may be a thermostat for the heater element allowing it to cycle attaining a target temperature where you have located the probe.
Will put that into the upgraded design later next year!
Of everything I've learned on making my own vacuum former by watching many videos from many makers is that I'm willing to save up the money and buy one.
Fine choice! It will save a lot of time and headaches :)
Cool build. As someone who deals with High Vacuum weekly (1x10^-7) there's doesn't seem to be a good reason you're not pulling negative pressure when you drop the plastic over the vacuum plate (You will never see any negative pressure if your vacuum plate isn't actively under load). Since wood is so porous, I'm curious if brushing a few layers of epoxy (You could impregnate it with Cactus Resin, but you're cost will go WAY up, and it's probably not worth the time/effort in this application) and some silicone around the edges would improve your vacuum.
As far as the heating of the plastic, you might want to look/play with distance between your heat element and spreader. Remember; Your heating element is not only heating air, but also releasing infrared radiation. So not only do you have analogy for light (Infrared), but so also have analogy for sound (heating of the air); both want to travel outwards from the source in a spherical shape that expands (In the case of sound, it expands twice as fast as the distance it travels [squared]) as it gets further from the source. If you put the element too close, you're superheating small sections of the Heat Spreader because you're not giving the heat enough travel distance to expand.
Yeah, I think my plastic-over-platen method of closing off air flow was flawed. I'll do something more scientific for the next iteration, whenever I can get to it.
People have commented with better heating concepts that I'll try out. The one in the video was easy but not that good. Those elements are also very difficult to find now. I may have mistakenly made a bunch of old electric grills obsolete by making this video. Party fowl.
Thanks for the ideas and the comment!
Did anybody try another vacuum approach that I would call 'shock vacuuming'. The idea is that the vac is already running but the hose is connected at the moment of thermoforming. Another approach would be to have a wide opening on one side of the vacuum box that can be closed by a door on hinges controlled by your feet. This will lead to a rapid forming taking advantage of the inertia already present in the system. I posted my comment / idea under this video because it is by far one of the most useful. Thanks for that.
Thanks for the comment and ideas! I didn't have my foot pedal for the last 20 or so pulls that I did and I went with the "shock vacuuming" approach instead and it worked pretty much the same.
The hinged door idea is interesting! The concept sounds like it might work. I'll probably make another machine sometime next year and try to incorporate some of the ideas in the comments.
What about.... turning on the vacuum first...then pull the sheet down?? It worked for me.
I misplaced my on/off foot pedal and started just turning the vacuum on to start with. It works just just about the same that way.
Watched all of the info. Tip that may help. Have you thought of using aluminum diffuser in the heating element to spread the hot spot out from center to the corners giving you a more controlled n even hot zone. Used this is powder coating oven that would have hot zones which would cause uneven flow n curing.
I remember the heat elements that I had my eye on years ago had that style diffuser. It's a great idea but it may just be better to go with a different style of heat element in the next build.
I may be a little late on this, but I have a suggestion that may help with the heating element. You could line the inside of the baking tray with gold foil heat shielding tape used in automotive use, as it would reflect far more of the heat onto the heat spreader more evenly compared to only insulating the outside :)
Interesting idea! I may have to test that out
Thank You for taking the time to Make this video! It's amazingly usefull. Would You recomend some changes to this design for 3mm thick plástic?
@BrokenAnvil
Any time! 3mm is getting pretty thick. This design overall should still work but it may need an excessive amount of time to heat up the plastic. With thicker plastics the "voids" between the heat element and the sides of the heater hood may result in the plastic not getting up to forming temperature in the corners. This can cause failure of the seal at the edge of the platen in this design.
I have not used the heating coils (that look like a stretched out spring) on one of my designs before but that may be a better choice for thick plastics like 3mm. The benefit is that you can run the coils right up to the edge of the heater hood to avoid dead spots.
My only success with 3mm + materials was on simple objects that did not fill up the build platform/platen. The mold needed the extra material around it to get a mold that had decent uniform thickness.
Also a vacuum tank is ideal for getting detail in thick plastics like this as well.
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have any other questions
@@The3DHandyman thank You !
Use ceramic quartz heating elements and set up zones control each zone to get uniform temps
Will keep this in mind for the next build. Thanks for the info!
I think the deformed excess plastic sheet at the lower edge of the mold is not only about the reasons you mentioned. Adding up holes on the mold near by the lower area most likely solve the problem of deformation
Good idea! Thanks for the comment
Great information. Thanks very much for that. I'm looking to make a 24" x 24" model and trying to work out the heater design at the moment. Trying to figure out how to get an even heat at that size without ending up with too much current draw by multiple heating elements. Have you ever setup a heater this size?
The largest I made was a 20"x24" unit that used 2x120v (3600watts) or 1x240v (2500watts) heaters. The 3600 watt setup worked a lot better than the 2500watt. If you insulate the heater really well it might be possible to run it with less but it might be a gamble on weather or not it works. If the heater is underpowered it might take an excessive amount of time to heat the plastic if it does at all.
I have never worked with wire heating elements but there seem to be some advantages to those. It might be something to look into. Maybe Adam Savages vacuum former video talks a bit about that?
make a single hole with multiple platform boxes in different sizes with custom frames to fit them so you can vac form smaller things without wasting plastic. Then you can also make boxes that have just one big hole instead of being perferated so you can draw vacuum bubbles/domes that are perfectly clear, or if you offset the hole you can make pear shapes/canopee shapes.
Fine idea, I will keep this in mind for my next build!
When you turn on the shopvac you're also having to pull vacuum in the entire volume of the shop vac & hose as well as the vac former base.
Turning the shopvac on ahead of time before lowering the plastic and having a large diameter ball valve directly on the body of the vac former will allow vacuum to be pulled in the former much quicker as the hose and shopvac tank will already be 'vaccumised'.
---
But yeah, years ago I made a two-stage vac former which had a shopvac with valve as above, and also an old freezer compressor attached to a scrap compressor tank. The tank would hold a high vacuum which would be applied just after the shopvac had done it's thing.
...While waiting for the heating element & plastic to get up to temperature you'd pull a decent partial vacuum in the vac tank.
As soon as the plastic is placed on the bed you'd open the shopvac valve for a second or two which would pull out do the bulk of the forming and remove as much air as it could, then you'd close that valve and at the same time open a valve to the vacuum tank which would apply a much stronger vacuum. Leaks mean this level of vacuum won't stay for long so shortly after you'd open the shopvac valve again then maintain a low-level vacuum from the shopvac while the plastic cools (you needed three hands to juggle all of the above so I wanted to add solenoids and computerise these first two stages ...but never got around to it).
Finally a third (optional) step would be to close the shopvac valve again and a third valve attached to an airline would positively pressurise the chamber and pop the plastic off the mould (in cases where the mould was fixed down to the base).
Thanks for the detailed comment! I am hoping to make another vacuum forming video next year with has more features like the one you describe.
Very nice job on this. To get a stronger/better pull do away with the peg board and us some Aluminum T-Shaped Tile Edging Trim and make a supporting frame out of that flat side down so that you'll get a better pull through the vent holes on your metal mesh. That peg slows air volume down to much. I did something like this for a small custom powder coat oven for long small parts. But i used angle iron instead of aluminum. I welded them into 4" squared cubes to circulate hot air from the top down to the bottom with a fan rated for ovens. I wanted a strong floor to hold racks on.
Great idea! Thanks for the comment! I may do another build next year and this would be a nice addition.
@@The3DHandyman wish you luck. Thanks for the reply
It's not a "Resistor" that gets hot, but the Triac, a component, which can turn power on and off very quickly. The fan speed controller got hot, because fan speed controllers are designed for loads around 100-200W. Your heater is more than that. It is not "excess power" but over current, which causes the heat.
Good to know. The controller is rated for this level of power but that doesn't mean that it is best suited for it. Thanks for the comment!
Cool
Fun Fact about 20 years ago I made a 2'x4' vacuum form machine from plans I found and it along with a ShopBot cnc router made a killing making lighting products for Arby's, Wendy's , Sonic, etc, etc... I learned later on that it worked better than several mass produced units I came across. If I remember correctly I had about $300 bucks in it.
That is a fun fact!
To prevent webbing use a pusher frame around the mold with enough clearance for the plastic. It should be preheated as well as the mold. As soon as the plastic contacts the mold it freezes and the perimeter stretches thin.
Old school vacuum former from the 70's here, forming 15 foot pylon sign faces to deep draw letters all on a vacuum table, by hand.
Great to know. I'm not sure how well a 3D printed mold would hold up to preheating. It would probably warp or lose dimensional accuracy.
Thanks for the comment! I actually talked with someone today that had all sorts of things to say about vacuum forming signs. It must be that kind of day.
@@The3DHandymanuse the 3d printer to make a mould that you can then pour vacuum forming resin into. Thanks for the tip of the heat spreader, never thought of that myself
@@jamieclarke321 Any time! Good call on the resin molds. I'll have to try that at some point.
I worked on 8'x9' too 3'x'3 VFM for years. 50% percent of a good pull is your Buck. You need to have a contoured riser lifting the buck up to make the fold fall lower past the object area. Your machine is fine.
I'll put that in my next vacuum forming videos, whenever I can get to them. Thanks for the comment!
Nice detailed explanations. A good source of perforated sheet metal is from a discarded microwave oven door. Also, I don’t know the reason why you don’t start the vacuum before you bring down the sheet over the buck. Not doing so allows cooling of the plastic sheet on the buck before the vacuum can do its job.
Thank you! I lost the foot pedal switch in a move last year and ended up using the vacuum former without it. Not sure if it worked noticeably better with the vacuum on ahead of time but it definitely didn't need that feature.
Thanks for the comment!
Huge documentation, maybe i recomend you to use some kind of seal when you put down the plastic, before you vacuum it, sometimes the vacuum dont work as well if theres some spaces, a plastic seal would help you to acomplish what you need.
I'll keep that in mind for the next build. Thanks!
As a thought... What about adding a frame with ceramic tiles to the heating unit. It will take the tiles a while to get up to temp, but once they are, the temperature would be evenly distributed. I have also seen other sources use electric IR patio heaters as a heat source. This of course brings the cost up, but appears to produce much more even heat.
I like the idea. Will see if I can implement it on a new design later this year. Thanks for the comment!
OHH I like this build. I have wanted to build one like this, but I have been trouble ironing out the details in my head, especially the heating element. What I love about this design too, that I built with my first (and want for my next ), is you stretch the plastic over the edges when pulled down.
Additionally, I am happy to learn I can get 110V heating elements (a 220V would be a problem for me).
Lastly, could you have NOT used peg board and drilled your own? That way you have a larger surface area of holes to pull down the plastic. Mine was small, and I used a standard home vacuum cleaner. I also had to pull them out a microwave oven ( would have the vacuum on before the pull). However, it pulled REALLY well for me as long as I made sure to not let the plastic cool too quickly (which to be honest, due to the drooping and lack of space to allow it, it probably was too cold to begin with).
Thanks! I hope to make a new version of this with different heating elements later this year. The gill element I used is hard to source at this point.
You can definitely make your own pegboard. Anything with lots of holes in it works well. If the material is thick then you don't need a support structure behind it like I used in this video.
Great content, thanks for your efforts.
Am intending to get a commercial one for large wall deco stuff, i watched on instagram a business of dashboard that uses vacuoforming and they were using a machine that was more rectangular due to their applications' nature. Anyways, is there a commercial entity you'd recommend for getting a reliable machine from at an adequate price ?
Thanks again for your efforts.
Thanks for watching! Textured wall panels are a great application for this sort of product. I can't say that I am familiar with many brands that make large format machines, always built them myself. That is by far the least expensive option.
the magnets loose there hold when they get hot
prolly make some clamps form spring steel that mount to the side of the heater setup and hook under the frame holding the plastic in a way that a small jerk up or down will let the frame slip passed it
That is a fine idea! I Will keep that in mind for the next build/update. Thanks for the comment!
Hi, I thought he was going to put something like that into the handles. So you would push in the handle or a slider to lock it into place, then when you are ready, pull the handles/ sliders out to release.
Add a simple pid temperature controller to the heating element, will solve a lot of issues 👍
I'll keep this in mind for the next build. Thanks for the comment!
What you have is a larger version of the vintage 1962 Mattel Vac-U-Form.
Pretty much! And you are right, the small gap-s in things need to be sealed better. A vacuum tank add-on is on the to-do list.
If someone hasn't posted already; all you need for vacuum is any three stage vacuum motor. This will get you 4.5 to 5.5 psi. Your shop vac has about 3 to 3.5 psi. Your dust collector has less than 1/4 psi. I used to know the model of 7.2 " Lamb vac motor used in many commercial vac forming machines. It is135 in. Of water lift. Which is 4.6 psi. You did better with the shop vac than I ever did.
Don't cheap out here. I think I saw a 5.7" Lamb vac motor (136 in.), for $114.
If you habe a central vac, you may have this kind of suction.
Never thought about a central vac as an option. Good thought! I hope I can make a new vacuum former this year, but I'm not sure I can fit it into the schedule at this point.
Thanks for the comment!
Fantastic video, definitely interesting to see the range of tests. Dumb question, how come you didnt hack together your own heat element?
Thanks! It was a bit outside the scope of the project at the time. I do really like the idea and I might try it out at some point. A need for large vacuum formers seems to keep popping up.
Nice video. Thanks for posting. What about the clear plastic? Can you post the link to purchase it?
Thanks! I purchased my .06" Clear PETG at eplastics.com
US Plastics and Professional Plastics are other options in the US. If you are outside of the US it's best to find a local supplier.
If you need less plastic than a full sheet (4ft x 8ft) then you can do an internet search for smaller amounts.
I'm sure you know by now that air flow isn't as important as the amount of vacuum you can draw. Instead of measuring wind velocity, it's more beneficial to have a vacuum gauge. I found an old shark brand upright vacuum that draws more vacuum than my $300 Fein shop vac. I've vacuum formed for years without a vacuum pump but they are much cheaper now and you don't need to get your material nearly as hot. I really like your platen with the cross bracing underneath the peg board and I never thought of using the perforated aluminum. Thanks for the great video.
Thanks for the comment! Good to know the Shark's preform well on this task. What thickness/type of material do you typically use?
@@The3DHandyman 1/8" ABS. The Shark doesn't make a big difference, only the vacuum gauge can probably tell, lol. I'm having to heat it to about 390 degrees fahrenheit with infrared electric and it starts to bubble around 405. I think with an actual vacuum pump I could drop the temp by 100 degrees.
@@buckylaine 1/8" is as thick as I've gone on a machine like mine. I made a battery compartment from for an e-bike back in '06. The shape was simple, to say the least.
My air compressor died a while ago and I'm thinking that I should have saved that tank for a vacuum tank! Either that or I will go with .04" PETG for the mushroom packaging. Easier detail with less expense.
Thanks now ill be shopping for vacuum pumps again…
Add a litle aluminium fan in the heater box, shaft going in, while motor is on the outside.
Or use space heater tubes which can be beter spaced
Thanks for the ideas! Will keep these in mind for my next build
great job, you have a similar voice to mirageC
Thanks! Hopefully I will have similar subscriber numbers too... one day 🙂
14:40 The wood is just a very fine air filter! You need to seal it well with 2 part resin then it will be ok with a shop vac, not the best but good. What you are doing with using a more robust vacuum system is like adding a oil tank to a car that's burning a lot oil - the engine doesn't run out of oil but the problem is not addressed. Fix the burning oil, that is the problem.
Have you tried sealing the plywood both inside and out of the vaccum chamber with polyurethane? I believe air escapes through plywood. Also maybe shorten the shop vac hose to achieve more negative pressure
You are definitely right about shortening the length of hose on the vacuum. The shorter the better!
It may be that the plywood is slightly permeable but if there are no distinct cracks in the surface, my guess would be that this wouldn't have much of an effect. If I were using mid grade or lower ply from home depot or similar I would expect this to be more of a issue but not so much with Baltic Birch.
Thanks for the quality work; really enjoyed watching it. Wonder if you still sell any of these? I definitely would be interested
Thank you! Maybe at some point once I get some things out of the way. Would you like the idea of a kit or fully built?
At the moment the heating element that I used is unavailable, so I would need to figure out a workaround for that.
@@The3DHandyman Fully built would be ideal, as you do quality job, but we can benefit from your idea of a kit also. I have a research lab that has access to the Centroform - EZFORM SV 1217 Vacuum Forming Machine, but their forming area is too small (12"x17"); we need to extend it to 20"24". We've already improved the vacuum system for a more powerful one, and currently looking for ways to make a larger heating area. We would be willing to buy the heating part only, too, if that's easier or quicker to built for you.
@@hadikhan2000 Awesome! I am familiar with EZFORM's products.
Currently fulfilling orders for the MycoSERIES that I did some videos on. That will take me through the end of the July. When do you need the vacuum former?
@@The3DHandyman I was hoping to have it early July, as we are a fast-pace group. Would that be possible for you? Also, could you give us an estimate for the 24"x20" heating box?
@@hadikhan2000 Sorry for the very late reply! I just got back from a much needed vacation. As we are already in early July, I unfortunately can not pull off that request. Making this machine will take me to until at least the end of August at this point. There is just to much going on at the moment. If that will work for you, let me know and I will put together a quote.
Sorry again for not getting back to you sooner!
Wow! Thanks for this incredibly detailed build demonstration. I’m sure you’re very busy but if you would be interested in thermo forming a small item for me I am in need of this service. Looked into building or buying one but the cost doesn’t make sense at this point. If you are interested in supporting this request, please let me know and we can iron out the details.
Thanks
Tyler
Hi! I would like to under normal conditions, but lately things have been anything but normal. There is just too much on my plate at the moment to imagine adding anything else. Maybe later this year, I could, but a lot of monumental tasks need to go perfectly for that to happen. If there is a maker space in your area you might be able to work with them on your project. Just a thought.
Best of luck with it!
Great start, you need to consider better ways to remove your plastic when done forming. This is probably the biggest weakness of home made machines. A flaw that everyone seems to copy when designing home machines. Professional machines have a way to secure your buck/form/mold down for a reason, easier part removal. But that also requires a well designed buck with good draft angles.
Also consider something to block the holes on your platen so you draw air only through areas around your buck. You don't need to have a perfectly formed shape of your web catchers. So if air isn't removed from there as well it makes part removal easier. You also don't thin your overall sheet out as much during forming because it doesn't have to cover as much surface area forming to the shape of the catchers.
Good luck!
No doubt! The plastic was destroyed each time the block of wood was removed. I had planned on having the prototype packaging video be part of this but the timing just didn't work out. Once this video does come out it will feature most of the things you have mentioned. My 3D printed tool is fully drafted and would eject cleanly...if I hadn't attempted to paint it. That part was a poor choice. Otherwise the resulting parts were good enough drop a couple of sample products into the mail.... with no damage in shipping (the most important part)
Great notes on the web catchers and securing the part to the surface of the platen! I suppose with the large dust port on the back I could stick my hand in there to secure a bolt to the underside. For the 3D printed tool I am able to bump it on the top side to remove it from the plastic... except when the paint fuses to the plastic.
Maybe a future update could include replaceable platens for more pointed hole placement. I would say that the unused areas of the platen could be taped off with some foil tape but that would likely result in a sticky mess once heated.
This is amazing work. Great content!
Cool Video. Thanks. What is the max heat temp you need? Have you tried silicon heating pads? Might be too slow to get to temp? The one for my 3d printer is rated for 230c. Is that a hot enough temp? I use the silicon heat pad adhered to a 1/4" plate aluminum. It provides a very well distributed heat surface.
That is definitely hot enough! Great idea. I'll look into it for the next build.
This was a completely random suggestion however I really like the video! Of course, this video being a random suggestion I have not watched any videos that are more recent. With that said, have you tried using one of the “cheap” vacuum pumps and an air tank? That would give you near instant vacuum and if you want to slow the vacuum rate you can reduce the air line between the platen(sp?).
I tried that setup long ago and didn't have a big enough tank or a perfect enough seal to make it really effective. Hopefully I can build a new vacuum former this year and try out some new concepts.
great video with amazing detail to your trouble shooting process. Would be interesting to see a mold produced via 3d printing or machining to be used on this DIY vacuum former. Was the total build costs $800 at the end of the video due to the vacuum pump required?
Thanks! I worked quite a bit with 3D printed molds on this project. Here's the video th-cam.com/video/T8bm8GvG3Tk/w-d-xo.html
Yes, with a vacuum pump and a large ballast tank you can easily spend that much. These days the price might be more reasonable for a budget build especially if you use a small vacuum pump and just wait a while for the tank to charge.
The machine as I used it only cost about $450 including the cost of the shop vac
How about using Quartz heating elements? It will speed up the heating process and allow for better spread. They are easy and cheep to get on ebay.
I hope to test this and other methods out later this year. Thanks for the idea!
have you thought about adding a small fan to the heater box to help even out the heat in the chamber?
It has been suggested. I may give it a try in a future build. Thanks for the commment!
Have you tried working with a positive displacement pump instead of the dust vac? They have less flow but higher vacuum pressure
I have not. This might be the sort of things where it would be best to charge up a take with a high vacuum so that it can be released in and instant. The displacement pumps I'm looking at only produce up to 5cfm and that's a bit low.
You could do a shop vac/displacement pump hybrid design but you have to have a system to close out the high flow/low vacuum system from the low flow/high vacuum system so you don't lose pressure. I think its just more simple to go with a large vacuum tank that you charge up with a simple vacuum pump.
Have you worked with them much?
Place your mold on a a riser block and you will get crisp corner that don't fold over on it's self.
For sure. I used felt pads to rise it up a little but I could have definitely taken it further. Thanks for the comment!
Gostei muito da máquina. O responsável pelo vídeo é o mesma pessoa que fabrica a máquina, ele não vende o kit desta máquina ?
No momento não estou vendendo a máquina. Precisa de trabalho e, no momento, não tenho tempo para entrar em produção nisso. Eu posso ter tempo mais tarde neste sim ou no próximo. Até então, meu site tem planos para esta unidade que você pode baixar gratuitamente se tiver alguém para fazer isso para você.
really cool thanks for this. I like longer videos, this 10min videos as a new trend that is on TH-cam its so terrible. So thanks for your work. And why you don't add a Temperature sensor to the heater ? to get heat the plastic sheets more gently
Thanks! I agree, it's difficult to be reasonably thorough in 10 minutes unless the subject is simple. The trouble is that for good watch percentage on a video the ideal length is 6 minutes or less. That said...I'm really happy that this video has taken off lately, it has convinced me that I should do another build. I'll be sure to add a temperature sensor to it!
Thanks for the comment!
i need one
Hello, Can you do a video on thermoforming felt? (For enclosers and such?)
Sounds interesting! I didn't actually know that was a thing. Is it for subwoofer enclosures? I can look into it. I have a lot of air filter related content in the pipe but I hope to do more vacuum forming videos next year some time.
@@The3DHandyman after reading up some more it looks like the thermoforming used for hard cases is usually done with EVA foam but you cover the eva foam beforehand with fabric.
For textured fabric finishes you can use a sandwich of fabric and foam in the middle, I'm not sure what type of foam you need in the middle but seems you can use a wide range.
And then for felt, seems like using that is also possible, I've seen one video where they make car parts with the same sandwich technique and recycled felt as the middle layer.
@@VTeslaV Very cool. I have seen a few videos on the EVA foam. I'll be sure to order some for experimenting. Thanks for the ideas!
Using kanthal coil would be a cheap improvement for your heater. It's easy to work with, and would let you fine tune your heater's size, shape, and power.
Second, smaller vacuums actually pull with higher pressures, so that may be something to experiment with.
Finally, working to reduce the pulled volume's geometry could result in residual gains (thinner aluminum top platform, parabolic bottom made of thin plywood bent around with shapers, internal geometries that soak up space without reducing air flow).
Thanks for the idea! I was hoping to make a new version of this build this year but it looks like that will need to wait.
Dumb question most likely, but could you not make it so that the heating element and it's enclosure, follow the plastic down the guide rails until it's closer to the mould (thingy), maybe using two extra adjustable depth stops to control how far the element descends before it separates from the form material frame?
I'm just thinking it might by one a little longer in terms of keeping the plastic at a formable temperature by reducing the distance to the work piece?
(not that I have a clue what I'm talking about because I've never even seen one of these before, let alone used one!😁)
Good question! It may help in some ways but the complexity of the build would definitely go up. It's also desirable to have the plastic cool quickly to improve cycle time if you are doing a lot of forming. Really this machine just lacks high vacuum. Not an insurmountable issue, just an expensive one!
They have vacuum forging now too…under heat too.?
Horizontal Sliding heaters on either side of the sheet
Interesting idea!
Great video. One question. Where are you getting the plastic?
Thanks! I've used US plastics, Eplastics, and Professional Plastics. Depending on where you are and what you are buying the prices and options will vary a bit between them. All are good to work with