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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2022
- Transmission oil for the Volvo M47 gearbox, lots of different opinions and facts out there, in this video I put ATF type F fluid (LiquiMoly Toptec 1300) into mine instead of the other suggestions of 10w30, 75w90 etc, let's see how it does..
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Volvo used to sell an oil for M45, M46, M47 and M90 with part no. 1161645 (discontinued as of a couple years ago) which was a 75W GL-4 manual transmission fluid. Closest to this you can get your hands on today is Redline MTL which in it's specsheet claims is equivalent to Volvos 1161645. I use this in my M90 and it did improve the shift quality.
That being said ATF works, that's what Volvo used to spec for these gearboxes according to the user manuals and Haynes books. However in 1982 they release a service bulletin calling for 10W30 motor oil except for in M46 gearboxes before MY 1982.
So through the production of these cars the recommendation from Volvo has in chronological order been ATF > Motor Oil > Volvo oil 1161645, and thats why you'll find conflicting information online, because they were all right at some point.
I see, that does explain why, thanks for the info!
@@Involvod No worries. I spent an unreasonable amount of time scouring the web to piece this mystery together and take every opportunity to spread the information. Keep living the redblock life, love your channel mate!
This is true. I have that piece of paper where it says this.
ATF often contains extreme pressure additives which is why ATF type F or G was suggested. These are old type fluids for older RWD cars that didn't have a common fluid lubricating the transmission and final drive gears.
My take is 10w/30 should be fine for NA cars but turbo versions may benefit from EP additives due to greater torque.
EP additives slightly impair synchromesh action but ATF contains more cleaning agents than engine oil. (GL4 has more EP additives than ATF and GL5 has even more.)
I changed my M47 to Dexron 2 a few years ago but I think I'll use the slightly more viscous type F which does not contain friction modifiers.
The type F is also correct for the inefficient BW35 transmission of 100 and earlier 200 cars.
The metal on the magnet is normal and nothing really to worry about.
If there are multiple oils recommended over the years, of wildly varying types. It means the gearbox is not fussy and almost anything will do. I run ATF type F and it shifts great.
Hard to get in gear from a stand still (first or reverse) is nearly always cause by the spigot (sometimes called the pilot) bearing in the crankshaft that centres the input shaft of the gearbox. When this bearing goes bad, the excess friction keeps spinning the input shaft when it should have stopped, hence the grinding.
When you do the clutch, make sure to replace this bearing with a good quality Japanese bearing (koyo, ntn etc) it has a tough and vital job and is not easy to replace. Also do the rear main while you are in there and machine the flywheel.
I would also order a clutch fork. Mine was so worn, the pivot ball was starting to crack through the back of the fork on the pivot. I drilled the crack out and welded it up because I needed it back on the road. I will replace the fork next time the box or engine is out.
Keep the vids coming!
@blue_mountains_brick
That's a very good point. And thanks for the info, I actually removed the gearbox and found the pilot bearing to be rough! Appreciate you watching, great pics of your brick on Insta 👌
I had the same problem with 1st gear in my m47. It was solved via moving metal plate to left side a little bit. Its located under the rubber casing m47
Thanks, I actually tried that and it did need adjusting, it was all the way over to the right side at the top, but it hasn't solved the issue, so going to dig deeper!
You’re not kidding about it being a minefield of choices when it comes to ATF/manual oil. Great video dude
Thanks man!
Got the same issue with 1st on mine, thanks for the tips and probably condemning my clutch lol
😄 You might have seen someone commented here about the adjustable plate under gear stick boot that sometimes needs adjusting. It didn't fix my issue though.. I'm part way through doing the clutch now, we'll if it was the issue!
Been running ATF type F for a bit and so far it's been behaving well. Now if only it wasn't leaking.
Thanks for the info! Sorry to hear about the leak, never fun!
I ran into so many conflicting posts when I was searching to drain/refill my m46 in the Canadian 245! I ended up using ATF type J. I'm glad I changed it because I was a quart low and the fluid was jet black like engine oil.
I had the exact same experience when I drained and refilled my M47! Anyway, I just put in exactly what the manual said to, and the car drives fine. I also have trouble getting directly into first gear, so most of the time I just shift from neutral to second to first in one single motion when I'm starting off.
I do that too but with 4th instead I found it a bit easier, but even easier I find is to shift into 1st before coming to a complete stop, then it was totally happy to go in
My handbook from 1991 says. “ Volvo synthetic transmission oil”. OR. “ ATF type F or G. So I presume the former is the clear one put in by the factory. Capacities. 5 speed. 1.55 lt with overdrive 2.6 lt.
Thanks!
ATF type F has always been dyed red.
I realize that. I was referring to Factory ATF by using the word “former”
As Daniel Page noted below, "also overfill the M47".
Outside of the car, this is easy to do by simply tilting the M47 on its side. You really can't put more than 2 quarts in there.
With the M47 in the car, jack up the left side of the car only, remove the top fill bolt and then add fluid with a syringe or pump until it starts to dribble / drip out of the top fill hole.
I do this with all 240s that have a M47 transmission.
Hey sledge cool video, keep up the awesome Volvo content!😁
Thanks Charles!
Well Sledge I have to admit that I didn't understand a word of that - lol! It doesn't matter of course as it's your personality & enthusiasm that counts.
😄 Thanks 😉
Really helpful videos, well produced.
Thanks 🙂
Yes also overfill the M47.
What a great video! Feels like sitting on "M47 anonymous" meeting🤣. I couldn't open the fill plug last time so I quit😅
Haha! And that's a shame mate, if it shifts and sounds right you might be alright, still plenty of M47s around too
The oem manual recommends ATF Type F for my M46 so that's what I use. It's been great!
I couldn't shift when my clutch went out. Wasn't slipping either but a new clutch allows it to shift like butter, I was surprised.
Thanks for the info, that's what I'm hoping is the case here!
Also had 1st gear issues which improved after using gearbox additive (I believe from LiquiMoly as well). But as you say, that looks like it has had a mix of original and later topped up oil. Ours got a flush with the same ATF you bought and then filled with it plus the additive. Took a few months to really improve but it did get better.
That's interesting, didn't realised it could take a bit of time to work. If it's still the same after the other components are replaced and it turns out to be the gearbox I'll dump some of that additive in and see if it helps, not much to lose at that point!
I cant remember excact spec but its some mobil gear oil. Nothing wrong with the car. Its been driven about 90k km since the transmission oil change. M47 shifts fine. 370k km driven.
Morning buddy, ha, you're not wrong about finishing the list of jobs, it does seem never ending. Just when I thought I was getting there, I notice a power steering fluid leak and one from the main seal! We're gluttons for punishment man. Take it easy dude and thanks as always for the great content 🤘
Never ends does it! I'm doing the rear main seal when I do the clutch on this car, not looking forward to it!
There are some bushings in the shifter mechanism. When they get worn out the shifter moves more than it should and makes it harder to get the gears in, I had a 240 where I had to lift the reverse locking thingy on the shifter to be able to put first and second gear in. Maybe you should also have a look at rubbermount for the gearbox and make sure that everything is where it's supposed be to have the shifter working properly.
Thanks for the tips!
I don't have a Volvo but i do have a RWD Lada and many complain that the 5-speed gearbox is extremely weak. Mine had been really easy to shift and been working great since i replaced the clutch and changed the gearbox oil to John Deere HyGard oil. It is a UTTO oil (Universal Tractor Transmission Oil) and is classed as a GL-4 oil so it won't damage synchronizers.
The ball of the clutch engagement paw has worn out, as has the pressure point on this lever.
In addition, there was play in the gearshift mechanism.
For the M47 from 1982-1990 Volvo recommended ATF type F or G
from 1991-1997, Dexron IID-Ford Merccon or fluid type 1161323 was approved.
Mixing Dexron IID with ATF was not allowed.
Good call on that pilot ball wearing through the lever arm
I have seen that before as well.
I've herd that when driving in 5th gear at too low of a speed, say under 55, it's not flinging the fluid well enough to cool it self down, causing premature wear and failure. Made sense to me, enough that ever since I only shift to 5th when over 55mph
I heard that too, I can't remember what speed I heard but that it's definitely better not to shift up to soon
Dont know about that. I usually shift to 5th gear at 80km/h
Sometimes at 70km/h. Havent broke it yet.
I had a 1975 Honda Civic that took solid 30 weight in the manual transmission. And the next year, 1976 Honda Civic with the same transmission took 80w90 gear dope.
Ha! That's what's confusing me here, how can the thinnest and thickest of oils both be right 🥴
Главное не заливать густую(у нас некоторые подешевле и погуще берут, по старинке на советских авто (ТАД-17 густая шла или нигрол) и льют в м47, выходит не очень. Один из моих знакомых залил в м90 трансмиссионку неправильную с серой и густую, у него стали туго включаться передачи, а содержание серы в масле выедает цветметаллы, а именно бронзовые втулочки и кольца синхронизаторов. В остальном сильно переживать о том что льется в м47 не стоит, я лично видел вскрытую рабочую 47 в которой была черно - серая вязкая паста от возраста, после промывки и замены на такое же масло как у тебя в видео она спокойно продолжила работать, подарив в благодарность легкость переключений и тишину
That's really good to know, thanks for the info. Someone else also mentioned the brass which is why Type F is important
I'm not sure about this but i seem to remember that there is an adjustable BRACKET tjat defines the amount of distance that you can put tge shifter to the LEFT. this bracket needs to be adjusted correctly in order to have smooth 1st + 2nd gear shifting. It's located under the shifter boot. Maybe worth having a look if it is in fact adjusted accotding to specs.
Yeah absolutely, I was told about that by someone after I filmed this, I checked it and it did need adjusting, but I still have the same problem, so going to dig a bit deeper..
Wear of the bushing in external linkage. I rebushed mine to sort it but had a fluid with lots of EP additives been used, things may have been different.
lmao the big shaq cutaway LMAO
I was personally recommended RedLine MT-90 for my transmission. I have a m47 gearbox
I think that's the other best choice for these
The green book (TP30941-1) lists ATF type F or G for the M46 and M47/M47II transmissions so I've been using ATF-F in my 740 with no problems. I've heard others say ATF helps it shift better when cold, but I haven't yet been able to compare it with conventional MTF fluids to shine any more light on it. A clutch replacement is pretty straight forward on these cars and will make for a nice video! Might want to change the rear main seal and the little pilot bearing located in the crankshaft while you're already so close to it.
That's good to know! Thanks. Definitely going to change those things as well, turns out the rear main seal is leaking so another good reason to take the box out
According to the Haynes manual "recommended fluids in cold climates" and according to my memory of when I had my manual transmission 1984 245, I used ATF type F or G which was pink in color. (I used essentially the same oil that was used in the power steering which was ATF type F). According to the Haynes manual in temperate climates "Volvo Thermo Oil" is recommended. That may be the clear oil that they no longer make. I guess Maine was considered a cold climate. According to the 1990 Owner's Manual for the 740 The specs say "Volvo synthetic gearbox oil 1161324 or ATF type F or G with the M46 requiring 2.6 liters (2.8 quarts) and the M47 requiring 1.5 liters (1.6 quarts). I don't know if that is better than the information you received about the specific oil that your friend recommended? Good Luck! Continue to enjoy your videos.
Thanks for the info, this fluid I used is yellow but it is Type F, which seems to get the most votes! Just a few people on the forums seem convinced it doesn't give enough protection, but we'll see!
When the clutch is starting to go bad och reverse gear and first gear is starting to grind, go to second gear first and then to reverse or first. This method will eliminate/minimize grind and be nicer to your gearbox.
I bought myself 2 liters of Ravenol ATF type F in the m47 of my Volvo 940. I think everything will be fine, at the moment the box does not make noise, but I will still change it, because I do not know when the last time the oil was changed in it.
My 360 (300 with B19A) has the same gearbox and I've been using ATF type F (I've also heard it someone call it type "Ford") for the past couple of years now. It's the typical red ATF from a generic brand but you want it to be the type F. Haven't had issues with it, was hoping on smoother gear changes but mine shifts about the same as your box. The important part is that the brass sleeves inside the box will not deteriorate when using type F. I'm not sure about that Liqui Moly but if a 240 owner uses it, it's probably alright.
Thanks, I just looked that up, and this Liqui Moly stuff I used is listed as type Ford oil as well on their website, specific for older vehicles
welcome to the Alfa Romeo owners world. The guys on the 164 forums go back and forth on this every few months.
It can be the same with engine oils, hours spent on the forums full of information, only to come away none the wiser 😄
@@Involvod yuuup, wanna troll a 164 guy? Ask if the front control arm ball joints are mounted on the top of the control arm or below it. While Volvo guys have their own perceived quirks, we Alfaholics are a strange breed. I come to your channel for a breather, good content and thanx for the time you take producing it!!
@@chrisbeall9098 haha, thanks. Maybe you should give the Volvo 164 a go instead!
@@Involvod I love those things (the 240 series mid to late 80's) and would have one or three if I wasn't so heavy into the Alfa scene.
I have heard the same thing about it being a minefield mate hopefully a clutch sorts the issue
Thanks mate, fingers crossed 🤞
After 180kkm the factory oil from my M47R gearbox (Volvo 340) was dark red, clear and odorless. The magnet was full of fillings. The M45/46/47/47R gearbox has brass synchronizers cones so the oil must be yellow material safe. According to the Volvo specifications the ATF type F or G should be used with M47 (or special Volvo gear oil GL4 75W - not available anymore) but for the M47R the ATF Type A only. The M47R seems to be identical with the M47 with the main difference it is mounted at the rear of the vehicle and connected directly to the differential. There are opinions (American forums) the ATF should never be used in M47 even if the specification says so - lifetime of the gearbox may be shorten significantly. I tried several oils: Gulf Type A, Ravenol ATF Fluid (Type A), ELF 75W80, Valvoline 75W80 (Volvo 97308) and now testing LM TOPTEC 5200 75W80 (Volvo 97308). In my opinion no one of these oils is perfect for the M47R. The best shifting quality I noticed was with the Valvoline but it is probably mineral oil (LM is synthetic). I have also impression the M47R performs better with gear oil rather than with the ATF. Choosing appropriate oil for the M4X gearbox is not an easy task.
All official Volvo factory service manuals and Owners Manual specify Type F ATF for the M47
It is so annoying...
I also filled my M47 with LM 1300 and the LM gear box oil additive a couple of years ago. So far its fine but you never know. It just feels wrong filling an ATF in a manual box. I also have the service note from 83 to fill in 10w 30 or 10w 40 which feels even more wrong.
What you also could try is to change the cluch cable!
Haha it really does! And definitely, I've got a clutch cable on the way 👍
I 'bout spat my tea out at the curry comment.
😄😄😄
ADD LUCAS OIL TO THE MIX. It adds tackiness to the oil and will be amazing for your transmission!
Why are people using atf oil? Volvo came with an update in 1983 that one schould engine oil instead. I have a proof of that on paper. I have a 240 and a 940 and both of them have M47 with engine oil. I have now driven around 60000 km in my 940 and have had no issues.
Good to know, thanks!
Could you do a video on how to swap auto to manual transmission🙏 with a list of parts you need
Hopefully one day!
If you decide on a new clutch and rebuilt pressure plate, remove the flywheel and get it skim cut or you could have clutch chatter once everything is assembled. Need to decide if time and extra cost is worth it.
Thanks Dave, I'll look into it
So, are we going to see you changing the clutch? Would be great. I think Ruby needs that too.
Yeah man! It will be the next video, will try to show as much as possible too!
Since there's no Laycock de Normanville overdrive I dunno that it would make much difference. The various branches of ATF vary by their friction modifiers, oxidation/corrosion inhibitors and variations in base oil which would today be synthetic typically (no more Sperm Whale Oil!)
I suspect it'd work fine with straight 30-weight motor oil (Such as the M41 my 142S uses) or any form of modern ATF or good old GL-5 80-90 weight gear oil.
As for shifting into 1st gear, is it the same with the engine off or does it only have this behaviour when the engine is running?
It seems that anything will do, but being a Volvo I'm not surprised 😄 That's a good question and would definitely point to the issue, I'm pretty sure it's with the engine running, as it also seems to get slightly worse as it gets hotter which is why I was also suspicious of the fluid
Totals lube advisor says ATF33 1.55 Litres. Lube advisors in general are pretty good so I would go there before going to some gnome on the internet anyday. If no answer go to the dealership since its a still running brand.
shift problem you have is the bearing in the flywheel that centers the inputshaft on the gearbox thats going bad
Thanks for the info, I didn't know they could cause that kind of problem, I thought they just got noisy, good to know!
Made in švedska broj 1 Volvo ,Husqvarna esab
Did you try to ask the Volvo dealer? In my opinion they should know this.
The problem is they seemed to have changed their mind more than once 🥴
what should i use for my 5 speed 1986 volvo 340?
What does the Haynes manual say in it ?
Hey, getting the m47 in first or second with some trouble can also mean that the shifting mechanism is getting old. Have the same issue but little less far I think. It’s probably just the connection outside the trans between shifter and trans.
I think it's also pretty typical of these older gearboxes. Hell, not even modern gearboxes are always smooth.
Thanks for the tip!
how many liters did you use? is 1 liter enough?
How did the oil work in that transmission ?
Hallo, kommt es bei deinem Volvo 240 auch vor, dass nach einer langen Autobahnfahrt das Getriebe und auch der Schalthebel heiß werden?
My advice! Always use genuine Volvo fluids, especially gearbox!
GL-4 in gearbox and GL-5 in rear axle. Simple. 😊
I have been using Redline MTL if the original oil has been removed.
Thanks, I heard that was also a popular choice
Hi mate, my clutch of 240 has cable with adjusterwheel at end of cable on gearboxside….my pedal is only engaging at the highest side of pedal…my friend doesnt suspect the clutchplate, I will try to shorten the cable by the adjustingwheel, or interchange the clutch cable with a known good one, on other 240 …is it hard job to change the cable by another one?
Hey, no it's a nice easy job, the cable can be a bit stuck where it goes through the bell housing hole but a few light taps should get it moving 👍
@@Involvod thx brother, i check!
I have a m47 and i went to a volvo dealership to buy fluid, i was going to buy syntetic manual fluid but they told me to get Volvo ATF fluid instead.
Thanks for the info!
What happens if we do the opposite?
I was thinking about changing my gear oil a year ago but don’t think I’m gonna bother tbh
Why's that mate?
@@Involvod don’t see the point now, fort it would help make the box last longer but if the fluids for lifetime I’ll leave it
@@mr.bodge. is it still clear and the correct level? If so yeah alot of people have said to leave it in that case, hopefully they are right!
Dexron III if its a automatic.
The oil that came out seemed very thin!! Is there any way you can find the spec of original fluid or a standard it passed as that might help find one. Lubricants are a very specialised stuff - I used to test them for a living!
That's probably the best approach, apparently Volvo also changed it at some point which adds to the confusion
ATF Type F/G
forgot 1.55 liters
I ran into so many conflicting posts when I was searching to drain/refill my m46 in the Canadian 245! I ended up using ATF type J. I'm glad I changed it because I was a quart low and the fluid was jet black like engine oil.
Wow, glad you caught that one, they can still handle a ton of abuse though