i also watched a video about Adam Ondra explaining that he doesn't want to be to strong as he fears that he will lose technique if this happens so this can be a reason why his speculated strength is lower than Alex Megos
@@roberty7999 That's not quite what he said, he said if you focus too much on power then you end up losing technique. Of course, Adam Ondra wants to be as strong as possible
@@zdenekburian1366 I think that Stefano has a little bit of both but at the same time is not as good as Megos and Ondra regarding power and tecnique, furthermore is not as flexible
a lot of the so called "better" climbs by Ondra were simply because he is taller and can include more eficient movements (or less movements) and find more rest positions than Megos but it has nothing to do with better. Quite some examples about Ondra being better technical were simply not possible for Megos. I agree with Ondra being more efficient but thats also something dependable on his body type. Megos wouldnt be able to climb at his level by copying Ondra. Also comparing them on plastic doesnt really make sense. Compare them onsighting a new route and you would get to a different opinion and more in sync at what maters regarding skill level. I understand if others see it different but climbing elite routes is imo the defining level of climbing not indoor climbing.
Megos has crazy climbing strength, which transfers well to pulling strength like front levers and one arm pull-ups, but when it comes to pushing strength and balance (planches and one-arm handstands) he wouldn't stand a chance against advanced calisthenics athletes. Just different disciplines.
All bodies and minds are different so while it is interesting to compare (I loved the video!) I do think rock climbing is also such a satisfying activity because watching someone send their first V3 is as exciting as anything else in the sport. We enjoy the progress of an individual solving a problem and breaking their own boundaries perhaps just as much (or maybe even more) than observing a legend do things we can't possibly fathom replicating and pushing the boundaries of the sport itself. I have never been one to watch sports, I always preferred to play them. But I watch more climbing videos than I do anything else.
About the high foot at 5:28 - could it be because of their height difference? Megos is more stretched out, so there's less weight on his right foot. So if he tried making a high left foot he might swing off with the right foot. It's hard to tell though, because they're standing on different holds (Onda on the right round thingy, Megos on the left)
I'm glad you think so! Adam's technique is honestly amazing - he's so fun to watch. I had another video planned about Tommy Caldwell, because his hip mobility is some of the best that I've ever seen. I don't think I'll ever make it due to copyright issues, unfortunately.
@@johnpattenden8553 Tommy's hip movements? I would watch this video: th-cam.com/video/q6SHbz28vto/w-d-xo.html. It's subtle, but he has a really cool rhythm to his climbing - he moves his hips away, gets his feet where he wants them, and then glues his hips back to the wall before moving a hand. When your hips are close to the wall there's less force on your hands, so Tommy's making sure that the moments when his hands are the weakest (when one of them is off the rock) is when his hips are closest (so the remaining hand has an easier time holding on).
you should be aware that in some of the compared clips, alex moves the way he does not because he likes dynamic moves but because he is a smaller dude, ondra can use his fit in some situations where other climbers cant. But with that said, I think you where pretty much correct, Ondra is much more efficient
That's a great point! Their height is definitely a big factor in some of the decisions they make, and also in how they've developed their styles overall
Completely agree. When Ondra gets a high left foot on the hexagon shaped holds, it seems evident to me that he does so because he has the height to stand on his right foot, whereas Megos may not be able to. Megos is my favourite climber, but I wouldn't disagree that Ondra is the more successful climber.
Whether you're a beginner or an elite, there's one thing that never changes---people are going to whine about how tall you are and undermine your achievements
*anymore, Though I doubt people at the TOP of their game like these two are pretentious enough to try to race for such a thing since they are both very aware that a definitive 15.d is decades away from being definitively confirmed by other climbers
Honestly I think Margo Hayes deserves to be in this discussion. Obviously she’s not going to send Silence or Bibliography, but sending Biographie is imo one of the greatest athletic feats ever. 20 years after Sharma blew everyone’s mind, Hayes’ climb moved the gender gap in athletics closer than in any sport ever. Considering the strength deficit she has in comparison to elite, or even good, male climbers, what she did is insane. The equivalent in a main stream sport would be a woman making the starting XI for Man City or getting selected in the first round of the NBA draft. Only 19 people have ever sent the route. Her ability to compete with and stand equal to even the most elite male athletes in the sport is simply unheard of. She deserves to stand above (or at least beside) athletes like Serena Williams, Annika Sorentstam, Lindsay Vonn, and Jackie Joyner-Kersee in her ability to achieve equal footing with the elite male athletes in her sport.
Serena did not achieve equal footing with the elite male athletes (she loses to rank 200 male players), and neither did Hayes. Being able to do *a* thing men do does not mean you can do *all* things those same men do.
First 9a+ for a female was an amazing performance, but there are other comparable performances. Angela Eiter climbed the first 9b by a female only half an year after Margo's first 9a+ (which was not Biography, but La Rambla). Lynn Hill's free ascent of The Nose stands out too in my opinion. And the woman closest to men's level in the history of the sports is hands down Janja Garnbret. Almost forgot Josune Bereziartu, who pushed the grade more than any other female, comparable with what Gullich did for the men. Also without taking anything from these great performances, I think it's fairly true that sport climbing is one of the sports with the narrowest gaps between men and women.
There's no question of adam being the better climber, both in overall top level, and his technique is far better then alex's. Alex however, has immense strength for his body weight, something hardly any other climbers even come close too.
criticizing Alex' shoulder posture is just bizarre. He has the best endurance/power endurance in the world with that posture. Shouldn't we assume, based on his amazing endurance, that he knows how to use his body? And indeed that the way he holds himself is somehow positively correlated and connected to his amazing physical ability? ... instead of speculating that he would be even better with different shoulder posture...( apart from that, great video! just a little point )
I trust biology more than I trust the instincts of a practitioner, because the practitioner trusts what works, and rarely thinks about what works better
@@edannoble4116 a practitioner, especially at higher levels and in competetive environments, spends a lot of time thinking about and testing what works better. (in fact it's bizarre to suggest that practitioners fighting to achieve perfection don't try to find ways that work better) Not only that, but what works better is naturally selected. (there's a big pool of climbers each using their bodies in slightly different ways, and the ways that work better lead to better results...)
I would have to agree with that assessment. Good eye! That is the differences between them. Alex is super powerful. But nobody can compare with Adam’s efficiency and technique.
Megos climbing looks like an excellent climber, Ondra, however, looks like a spider on the wall. He's got that bit extra of raw, magical talent and he's found the one thing in life to which he is perfectly suited.
Such a shame the companies that own the rights to Adam's footage are so simple and close-minded with their property. Haven't they had their own problems not too long ago about not being able to use IFSC competition footage, which was then resolved because the federation realized it was better for the popularity of the sport? Hopefully they come to their senses and start allowing fair and reasonable use of their footage for the purpose of critique (aka: literally "fair use" that they shouldn't really be able to claim anyway if youtube's system wasn't completely broken)
Trust me, I tried! I even went the fair use route, but their footage is owned by a Czech company, so Czech laws would apply if they sued me and the Czech says nothing about fair use. In Adam's defence, they have their own distribution agreements with companies about their footage (BD, Reel Rock, etc), and they could get in trouble for not enforcing ownership of their stuff, so I don't reeaaaallly blame them - it's just annoying to work with.
@Pavel Blažek I understand wanting to have complete control over your work but fair use is literally the reason why your allowed to have music in your videos have lenses from more than one company on your cameras. When you take something someone else made and change it to the point it's no longer what they made it becomes a new thing. You guys absolutely have every right to shut down people reposting videos In their entirety but individual clips for the purposes of commentary or other forms of personal expression don't take away from your guy's views. I don't think anyone would watch this see a 2 sec clip from silence and decide they don't need to watch the full video on it. Of anything they're more likely to go find the video that clip is from.
@taret and @pavel It's a grey area. It sucks to be the flimmaker having their hard work and effort used without consent, and it sucks to the youtuber who's creating content and sharing something amazing then getting blocked. It's lose/lose. Someone always pays for the "free" stuff; you might not even know when or how it's you who's paying, but there is always a cost. The best instance is to acquire the rights (by paying, advertising, maybe just asking would've worked) to use the content, because then it's a win/win/win (AOteam/Ascentionism/Viewer). We learn together, thank you for reading.
Adam Ondra is 6’1” and Alex Megos is 5’7” tall so their climbing beta is going to be very different when doing the same route. You can tell Megos has to try a bit harder to reach the same holds.
@@francescomonini8882 I'm sorry but neck length or shoulder shit doesn't matter at all, however Ondra has a really long wingspan, longer than his height. This coupled with his long legs gives him a huge advantage.
@@W4TH3JE5U5 Adam's wingspan is comparable with his height, he has long fingers but relatively narrow shoulders and the famous long neck; both Alex and Adam have an ape index close to 0, which of course gives Adam an advantage in reaching holds farther away
Ondra is the Best. And I think there's no discuss. He ruled the climbing world in sport climbing, boulder, multipitch and climbing competitions for 10 years. And it's not over
Right now its adam ondra imho. But megos has the potential to challenge him for the throne if he matures more as an athlete. But honestly.. i dont care. If #1 and #2 are so close they both deserve respect. Im wondering if its one of those two who will do the first 10a or if it will take another generation of climbers for that jump in grade.
I agree! I've always said that Alex probably has a higher ceiling if he could just get some of the Frankenjura climbing style out of his system. I think that's a super interesting question (and I want to do a video on it sometime). Adam and Alex are both around 27 years old. If you use Sharma's ascent of La Dura Dura (he was 31 when he sent it) as a rough estimate of when they'll hit their ceiling, they theoretically each have 4 more years where they can improve and push the grades. Personally, I would want to see them put up a few more 5.15d's before they start slapping the label of 5.16 on something, but it'll be super interesting to see if they can get it. As a sidenote, I'll be pissed if training for the olympics distracts them from real rock and they never even take a crack at 10a
@@ascentionism I think for Sharma his last big one will be the "Le Blonde" project, which I would guess would be 5.15d and the hardest Sharma will climb. What I am curious about is the grade of Bibliographie. As the one 9b+ Megos has done is rather suited to his Frankenjura style (pockety), I wonder if a climber who had climbed 9b+ of a similar style (La Dura Dura) who then tried Bibliographie might think the grade soft? This is all hilarious armchair speculation, I am nowhere near the level of these two climbing gods, but I do like to nerd out over this stuff. P.S. I heard you live in Canada. If you are ever in the Squamish area and want to go climb and chat about this shit I would be super keen! HMU
@@yognaught1000 Is Sharma still projecting? That would be bonkers if he put up a 15d at 40, although I guess you see that sometimes - Dani Andrada peaked around that age. I think the Bibliographie question is super interesting because it seems to push different climbers in different ways. Megos took ~11 days of climbing to Perfecto. Ondra got about 10 days of climbing on it and got shut down (with some really terrible conditions, to be fair), but said the top section was easy. Schubert polished it off in 3 weeks and said he almost downgraded it to 9b, but the top section felt hard for him. Overall, it's just hard to get a gauge on it. Realistically I think Megos should've tagged at least one more 9b+ before he labeled something as 9c (but also, he's 10000x the climber I will ever be, and he can label stuff however he wants). Dura Dura seems like it would be doable for him. It's also annoying to think how long it'll take for Silence to be repeated. Really my best hopes at this time are Ghisolfi or Bouin, because Alex has basically said he wants nothing to do with it. I'm always happy to nerd out about this stuff! Shoot me an email any time you like - I love the theoretical discussion. I'm a Berta kid, but squaw is on my radar as soon as COVID dies down. If you're ever out in the Rockies and want to do some multi's let me know!
@@ascentionism I'm not sure whether he is actively projected it right now, what with the gym that he opened. However you see pieces of media from time to time of him trying it. Seems like it could be up in that range just for the amount of time he has spent on it. Thats sort of what I was thinking as well. Megos calling Bib 15d seemed a bit... premature... but once again, I'm nowhere near that level. I guess time will tell, but I would really love to see some more people try Bib. Silence I don't think will be done soon, but I was stoked to see Stefano do Change as fast as he did, so maybe it will happen! I'm actually planning a sport climbing trip to the Bow Valley at the end of summer! Hopefully covid will have chilled out enough to allow inter-provincial travel, but we will see. And likewise when you come out to Squamish I can take you up some CLASSIC trad multipitches!
@@yognaught1000 Yeah, Stefano did Change WAY quicker than I thought he was, and I was really impressed with how quickly he adapted to the weird Flatlanger style. I think Schubert has already hinted that he would like to try Bib, and I feel like it would be absurd if Ondra didn't give it a shot once the Olympics are out of the way, so hopefully we'll be able to get some more ascents - it DID take Megos 60 days of work, which is an insane amount of time when you consider how quickly he crushed Perfecto, so maybe there's something to it. Definitely let me know when you're in town! COVID-allowing, of course, but it would be sweet to hop on something. Trad routes are spooky but I would definitely be down to try (especially because the rock in Squamish seems a lot more solid than the bullshit we have to put up with here in BV)
I love Megos' powerful style, it's fun to watch, but Ondra I feel is the more rounded, better climber but more because of his relaxed, flowy style and "less aggressive" attitude. Either way, both of these guys have my utmost respect and adoration. I like to do the Ondra screams on 5.8 cruxes lol
Right? Adam Ondra is really beautiful to watch climbing (as long as you have the volume off, lol), and it's amazing to watch how smoothly he flows through sequences
You could distinguish by creating categories to establish superiority in different domains. Like athleticism (break that into subcategories like finger strength, endurance, etc.), technical abilities like (decision making, footwork, etc.), accolades (events won, flashes, etc) and maybe an X factor thing like creativity or something to then make a final assessment. I def enjoyed the video tho!
It's just a feeling as I did not reasearch him but when watching competitions Megos seems like he just do it because he has to. He does not seem to care half as much as Ondra. He also do no seem to 'embrace' and use his fame as much. Being known and all that does not seem to be his thing.
Honestly, I think I kind of agree - Adam seems to wake up every day wanting to be as good at rock climbing as possible, while Alex seems more chill. I'm not saying he doesn't train SUPER hard - he just more seems to be there to have fun
I feel like Alex isn’t really a competitive climber. I mean when looking at his results. In 2019 Adam finished as The number 1 lead climber and as the number 2 boulderer. While Alex finished as number 7 in Lead and number 19 in bouldering.
@@zennar8294 Megos seems like Güllich in that regard and just not care much about competition climbing. Thats why imo its difficult to compare them climbing plastic. Them doing the same route outdoors on sight would be more telling.
This is a Great video over all, and I agree that Adam ondra is a Stronger due to his resume on big walls & multiple V16 boulders. How ever In the climbing comparison you failed to mention that Ondra is taller and has a greater Ape index than Megos. That is why you see toe hooks>heals & 1 or 2 more moves than Ondra... Ondra also just started projecting Perfecto Mundo! So hopefully you can come out with another climbing comparison when he sends the route. Great video over 👍
Thanks! You're right, I totally forgot to mention the height difference and how it impacts their climbing. I'm SO excited that Ondra is working Perfecto Mundo. It's going to be such an interesting insight into how long it takes him to send, especially considering it's not his style whatsoever. Maybe afterwards he could venture over and try Bibliographie...? I would love to compare them on the route, but I'm not going to be able to - Ondra's super strict about his vlog footage, and if I use any of it, the video will get taken down for copyright infringement.
this could kinda be translated to Jain Kim and Janja, efficiency style vs bumpy and if I’m not mistaken Adam said that Jain is his favourite female climber
I really really like Janja's style. Her dynos are very high risk and she uses them even in situations where they are absolutely not needed, but she does them with such confidence, never doubting herself. Watching Janja climb is nerve-wrecking and amazing at the same time.
I feel Adam Ondra is sort of the future of the sport. He's not ultra jacked. He just has a really good technique which I think is more accessible to a lot more people which is how sports normally develop. It's almost always technique over raw strength. Decreasing movements and increasing your movement. You're not always going ABCD. You're going A to D which allows you more movement in a smaller timeframe and is more efficient at conserving energy. Raw strength can overcome this, but at the cost of Energy. That's not to rip on Megos because it's impressive as all hell watching him hang like that, but his style is a lot less accessible as I feel it relies on his strength a bit more than technique which is still in of itself very impressive. I guess what I'm saying is Less is more.
Yep, both are stellar climbers, who wouldn't even warm up on my best achievement in terms of grade. However, one of your few plus points for Alex could actually be argued as a plus point for Adam. If they have both achieved about the same level of technical difficulty but the Lattice test suggested Alex is stronger, surely that means Adam therefore has to be more technically proficient?
Sorry, but the Video has to be renamed in: Who is the better Onsight-Competition Climber? You only compared them in a competition route, where they are climbing Onsight on plastic. I think its hardly possible to transfer that into Redpoint Rockclimbing.
Hey, sorry you felt that I didn't compare them enough outside! A couple of points to that: -In the original version of this video, I do compare their styles on Fight Club and talk about how Ondra's drop-knee was a little too fanciful. However, that video got taken down because Reel Rock didn't want me to use the footage of Adam climbing Fight Club -Literally every video of Adam climbing outside is either owned by him or by Reel Rock, and both of those companies have forbidden me from using their stuff. I literally can't show Adam climbing outdoors, which makes it hard to compare. -Adam and Alex have less overlap in their outdoor routes than they do in competitions, so it's easier to find footage of them doing the same moves. Additionally, competitions will have a consistent camera angle, which makes it so much easier to find where they are in the route and judge their body positions. -In lieu of them climbing outdoors, I tried to talk about their outdoor resumes to at least paint a picture of where they are. I hope that shows why I wasn't able to show them outdoors more. I agree, that's where the true test of their ability lies, but in practical terms it's a lot harder to compare that
Résumé is the only thing that matters. Only thing that counts in climbing is what you have climbed. Megos is the better trainer sure, but no one cares about that. This isn’t body building or gymnastics. It’s climbing. Megos is a god, but Ondra is clearly the best climber to ever do it. He’s got the ticks to prove it.
@@crimpingenthusiast Personally, I think climbing shouldn't be any one person dictating what climbing should be. And why should speed records be the only competitive part of climbing? That seems totally arbitrary. Almost like you just made it up...
There is "best" and "strongest" and then there is "most impressive" and/or "climber who has captured the imagination of the non-climbing world" and we all know that person. It's maybe not fair, but life is not fair.
megos is technically the better climber because he has onsighted much harder grades and is significantly physically stronger. it also takes him much less time to send projects and established hard routes. if megos had the same resources as ondra he would be climbing routes that ondra simply couldn't. however could megos pull off the crazy foot move on silence? maybe not, so neither is better. there are so many metrics that you can't say which is better. ondra is more accomplished but megos is far stronger and has more potential
If both climbers were of exactly the same ability and exactly the same strength, then the governing factor for who is the better would be height/reach. This would give Adam the edge. I would argue that Alex is stronger than Adam, but Adam is slightly more efficient/accurate. Really hard to split the difference. I would like to see Alex on "Silence" and Adam on "Bibliographie"!
That's actually a really interesting point! It's kind of frustrating that the two of them have never really projected a similar route. The closest I could maybe think of would be Super Crackinette, which Alex climbed in 3 goes and Adam flashed, but that's a 5.15a so it probably isn't very representative of their abilities.
@@ascentionism Yes, ah wait we have „the Project“ this 9c+/10a indoor thingy. There Alex holds the record by like one move I think, and Adam is Second place but very close... but maybe the pumpy nature of the route suits a guy with better anaerobic capacity better.
@@qawi272 That's true! I really wish more climbers spent dedicated time on The Project (even though I understand why it's not a big priority for them) because I'd love to be able to compare them side by side. I have seen the route, though, and I think is suits both of their styles pretty well - Adam's pretty decent on pumpy routes as long as there aren't any pockets, and Alex is just SO strong
@@qawi272 The Project was just a gimmicky marketing stunt. No top level climber is going to spend any time seriously trying an indoor project. The sponsors flew out some of their sponsored climbers for the event and then no one ever heard anything more about it.
It's sad for me that the climbers have to do speed climbing when it takes away time from them to actually perfect their art. Especially when they dont enjoy it. Wish olympics would separate the two sports.
Adam Ondra is the best climber (especially lead climbing) but I think Tomoa Narasaki will win the 2021 Olympics because he is better at speed climbing and bouldering than Ondra.
I think the only one who can compare to Ondra is Jackob Schubert, in terms of outdoors climbs lead and boulder, and competition lead and boulder.... One step lower maybe Stefano and Megos, but far from ondra both
@@letsprogress4124 If you watched the video this comment might make sense. Both climbers climb at a very fast pace and while Alex relies much more on his power, Adam relies on his technique and experience.
you're going out of your way to mock someone who is bringing a lot of people to appreciate the sport and fun of climbing? and who, nonetheless, is a fantastic climber? lol...
Adam is the best climber. His focus on climbing is demonic. His technique should be our bible. Alex is much stronger. Raw power defines him. “Fuck it I’ll campus it”.
I would say Ondra - Novak and Megos - Nadal )) Federer at his best is better than anyone , simply genius. I don't see such equivalent in climbing (yet)
Best climber of all time. Meanwhile there's a barefoot 14 year old boy in a jungle somewhere ascending a 200ft cliff with no protection for eggs or something
This was so biased towards Ondra from the outset, you made your opinion rather clear by not focusing really on megos' strengths... Such as his stylistic abilities in pockets etc which Ondra has repeatedly admittes that he lacks
Ondra is way better.He won so many competitions and Megos is performing really poor.Ondra has way more hard routes climbed and his mental strength and technique is unmatched.Maybe Megos is number two.But i think that Jacob Schubert is better than Megos too.Ondra then Schubert and number three maybe Megos.I am always right!
Megos is better than Schubert, he has both harder onsights and also harder first ascents. Comparing Ondra and Megos' performance in competitions is also pretty arbitrary since Ondra dedicates much more time to training for them. I think Megos proved in the Olympic qualifications last year that he is able to perform when he put the time in.
Ondra is way better.He won so many competitions and Megos is performing really poor.Ondra has way more hard routes climbed and his mental strength and technique is unmatched.Maybe Megos is number two.But i think that Jacob Schubert is better than Megos too.Ondra then Schubert and number three maybe Megos.I am always right!
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I love watching videos where some Gumby determines whose the most bestest climber by watching videos
I love reading comments from gumbies talking about "some gumby". Much entertain
Chill out dude
Chill dude
I like watching old gumby cartoons.
Mr Gumby? My brain hurts!
Slight correction :
In the lattice article, Adam's stats are estimation so we don't really know his actual real finger strengh
That's a good point!
i also watched a video about Adam Ondra explaining that he doesn't want to be to strong as he fears that he will lose technique if this happens so this can be a reason why his speculated strength is lower than Alex Megos
@@roberty7999 That's not quite what he said, he said if you focus too much on power then you end up losing technique. Of course, Adam Ondra wants to be as strong as possible
So basically, Alex is the stronger climber and Adam is the better climber ;-)
Yep. And you don’t need a video to know that.
Or has Stefano Ghisolfi the best of both the worlds?
@@zdenekburian1366 I think that Stefano has a little bit of both but at the same time is not as good as Megos and Ondra regarding power and tecnique, furthermore is not as flexible
...we think
a lot of the so called "better" climbs by Ondra were simply because he is taller and can include more eficient movements (or less movements) and find more rest positions than Megos but it has nothing to do with better. Quite some examples about Ondra being better technical were simply not possible for Megos. I agree with Ondra being more efficient but thats also something dependable on his body type. Megos wouldnt be able to climb at his level by copying Ondra. Also comparing them on plastic doesnt really make sense. Compare them onsighting a new route and you would get to a different opinion and more in sync at what maters regarding skill level. I understand if others see it different but climbing elite routes is imo the defining level of climbing not indoor climbing.
“Why learn technique when you can just campus?” - Alex Megos
TIL that Alex Megos and I have the same climbing philosophy
@@ascentionism I'm more of an Adam, maybe because we're both tall :)
Megos is a calisthenics monsters who would put Chris heria to shame
well one's a world class athlete and one's a TH-camr.
@@SyRyanYang I think you dont realise who is Chris Heria
@@Kevin-tp4gl I know who he is. He's overrated.
No doubt he’s insanely strong but he doesn’t have the pushing strength for calisthenics moves like full plan he or Maltese
Megos has crazy climbing strength, which transfers well to pulling strength like front levers and one arm pull-ups, but when it comes to pushing strength and balance (planches and one-arm handstands) he wouldn't stand a chance against advanced calisthenics athletes. Just different disciplines.
All bodies and minds are different so while it is interesting to compare (I loved the video!) I do think rock climbing is also such a satisfying activity because watching someone send their first V3 is as exciting as anything else in the sport. We enjoy the progress of an individual solving a problem and breaking their own boundaries perhaps just as much (or maybe even more) than observing a legend do things we can't possibly fathom replicating and pushing the boundaries of the sport itself.
I have never been one to watch sports, I always preferred to play them. But I watch more climbing videos than I do anything else.
About the high foot at 5:28 - could it be because of their height difference? Megos is more stretched out, so there's less weight on his right foot. So if he tried making a high left foot he might swing off with the right foot. It's hard to tell though, because they're standing on different holds (Onda on the right round thingy, Megos on the left)
Amazing! Reminds me how important technique is!
And hip mobility . . .
I'm glad you think so! Adam's technique is honestly amazing - he's so fun to watch.
I had another video planned about Tommy Caldwell, because his hip mobility is some of the best that I've ever seen. I don't think I'll ever make it due to copyright issues, unfortunately.
@@ascentionism can you give an example of when this is apparent?
@@johnpattenden8553 Tommy's hip movements? I would watch this video: th-cam.com/video/q6SHbz28vto/w-d-xo.html.
It's subtle, but he has a really cool rhythm to his climbing - he moves his hips away, gets his feet where he wants them, and then glues his hips back to the wall before moving a hand. When your hips are close to the wall there's less force on your hands, so Tommy's making sure that the moments when his hands are the weakest (when one of them is off the rock) is when his hips are closest (so the remaining hand has an easier time holding on).
you should be aware that in some of the compared clips, alex moves the way he does not because he likes dynamic moves but because he is a smaller dude, ondra can use his fit in some situations where other climbers cant. But with that said, I think you where pretty much correct, Ondra is much more efficient
That's a great point! Their height is definitely a big factor in some of the decisions they make, and also in how they've developed their styles overall
Completely agree. When Ondra gets a high left foot on the hexagon shaped holds, it seems evident to me that he does so because he has the height to stand on his right foot, whereas Megos may not be able to. Megos is my favourite climber, but I wouldn't disagree that Ondra is the more successful climber.
Whether you're a beginner or an elite, there's one thing that never changes---people are going to whine about how tall you are and undermine your achievements
They're not in a race to establish the first consensus 15.d.
*anymore, Though I doubt people at the TOP of their game like these two are pretentious enough to try to race for such a thing since they are both very aware that a definitive 15.d is decades away from being definitively confirmed by other climbers
Honestly I think Margo Hayes deserves to be in this discussion. Obviously she’s not going to send Silence or Bibliography, but sending Biographie is imo one of the greatest athletic feats ever. 20 years after Sharma blew everyone’s mind, Hayes’ climb moved the gender gap in athletics closer than in any sport ever. Considering the strength deficit she has in comparison to elite, or even good, male climbers, what she did is insane. The equivalent in a main stream sport would be a woman making the starting XI for Man City or getting selected in the first round of the NBA draft. Only 19 people have ever sent the route. Her ability to compete with and stand equal to even the most elite male athletes in the sport is simply unheard of. She deserves to stand above (or at least beside) athletes like Serena Williams, Annika Sorentstam, Lindsay Vonn, and Jackie Joyner-Kersee in her ability to achieve equal footing with the elite male athletes in her sport.
Who exactly are you angry with?
Serena did not achieve equal footing with the elite male athletes (she loses to rank 200 male players), and neither did Hayes. Being able to do *a* thing men do does not mean you can do *all* things those same men do.
First 9a+ for a female was an amazing performance, but there are other comparable performances. Angela Eiter climbed the first 9b by a female only half an year after Margo's first 9a+ (which was not Biography, but La Rambla). Lynn Hill's free ascent of The Nose stands out too in my opinion. And the woman closest to men's level in the history of the sports is hands down Janja Garnbret.
Almost forgot Josune Bereziartu, who pushed the grade more than any other female, comparable with what Gullich did for the men.
Also without taking anything from these great performances, I think it's fairly true that sport climbing is one of the sports with the narrowest gaps between men and women.
There's no question of adam being the better climber, both in overall top level, and his technique is far better then alex's. Alex however, has immense strength for his body weight, something hardly any other climbers even come close too.
"TH-camrs gotta TH-cam, though, so let's get on."
xD
criticizing Alex' shoulder posture is just bizarre. He has the best endurance/power endurance in the world with that posture. Shouldn't we assume, based on his amazing endurance, that he knows how to use his body? And indeed that the way he holds himself is somehow positively correlated and connected to his amazing physical ability?
... instead of speculating that he would be even better with different shoulder posture...( apart from that, great video! just a little point )
I trust biology more than I trust the instincts of a practitioner, because the practitioner trusts what works, and rarely thinks about what works better
@@edannoble4116 a practitioner, especially at higher levels and in competetive environments, spends a lot of time thinking about and testing what works better. (in fact it's bizarre to suggest that practitioners fighting to achieve perfection don't try to find ways that work better) Not only that, but what works better is naturally selected. (there's a big pool of climbers each using their bodies in slightly different ways, and the ways that work better lead to better results...)
I would have to agree with that assessment. Good eye! That is the differences between them. Alex is super powerful. But nobody can compare with Adam’s efficiency and technique.
Action directe wasn't Ondra's first 9a. It was Martin Krpan. He did Action directe two years later.
Megos climbing looks like an excellent climber, Ondra, however, looks like a spider on the wall. He's got that bit extra of raw, magical talent and he's found the one thing in life to which he is perfectly suited.
Such a shame the companies that own the rights to Adam's footage are so simple and close-minded with their property. Haven't they had their own problems not too long ago about not being able to use IFSC competition footage, which was then resolved because the federation realized it was better for the popularity of the sport? Hopefully they come to their senses and start allowing fair and reasonable use of their footage for the purpose of critique (aka: literally "fair use" that they shouldn't really be able to claim anyway if youtube's system wasn't completely broken)
Trust me, I tried! I even went the fair use route, but their footage is owned by a Czech company, so Czech laws would apply if they sued me and the Czech says nothing about fair use.
In Adam's defence, they have their own distribution agreements with companies about their footage (BD, Reel Rock, etc), and they could get in trouble for not enforcing ownership of their stuff, so I don't reeaaaallly blame them - it's just annoying to work with.
@Pavel Blažek I understand wanting to have complete control over your work but fair use is literally the reason why your allowed to have music in your videos have lenses from more than one company on your cameras. When you take something someone else made and change it to the point it's no longer what they made it becomes a new thing. You guys absolutely have every right to shut down people reposting videos In their entirety but individual clips for the purposes of commentary or other forms of personal expression don't take away from your guy's views. I don't think anyone would watch this see a 2 sec clip from silence and decide they don't need to watch the full video on it. Of anything they're more likely to go find the video that clip is from.
@taret and @pavel It's a grey area. It sucks to be the flimmaker having their hard work and effort used without consent, and it sucks to the youtuber who's creating content and sharing something amazing then getting blocked. It's lose/lose. Someone always pays for the "free" stuff; you might not even know when or how it's you who's paying, but there is always a cost. The best instance is to acquire the rights (by paying, advertising, maybe just asking would've worked) to use the content, because then it's a win/win/win (AOteam/Ascentionism/Viewer). We learn together, thank you for reading.
Adam Ondra is 6’1” and Alex Megos is 5’7” tall so their climbing beta is going to be very different when doing the same route. You can tell Megos has to try a bit harder to reach the same holds.
But consider ondra has an incredibly long neck, should look at shoulder height instead. Ondra still taller but not so much more
@@francescomonini8882 I'm sorry but neck length or shoulder shit doesn't matter at all, however Ondra has a really long wingspan, longer than his height. This coupled with his long legs gives him a huge advantage.
@@W4TH3JE5U5 Adam's wingspan is comparable with his height, he has long fingers but relatively narrow shoulders and the famous long neck; both Alex and Adam have an ape index close to 0, which of course gives Adam an advantage in reaching holds farther away
Ondra is the Best. And I think there's no discuss. He ruled the climbing world in sport climbing, boulder, multipitch and climbing competitions for 10 years. And it's not over
Very good video for such a small channel 👍🏻
Thanks! I'm glad you think so
Right now its adam ondra imho. But megos has the potential to challenge him for the throne if he matures more as an athlete.
But honestly.. i dont care. If #1 and #2 are so close they both deserve respect. Im wondering if its one of those two who will do the first 10a or if it will take another generation of climbers for that jump in grade.
I agree! I've always said that Alex probably has a higher ceiling if he could just get some of the Frankenjura climbing style out of his system.
I think that's a super interesting question (and I want to do a video on it sometime). Adam and Alex are both around 27 years old. If you use Sharma's ascent of La Dura Dura (he was 31 when he sent it) as a rough estimate of when they'll hit their ceiling, they theoretically each have 4 more years where they can improve and push the grades. Personally, I would want to see them put up a few more 5.15d's before they start slapping the label of 5.16 on something, but it'll be super interesting to see if they can get it.
As a sidenote, I'll be pissed if training for the olympics distracts them from real rock and they never even take a crack at 10a
@@ascentionism I think for Sharma his last big one will be the "Le Blonde" project, which I would guess would be 5.15d and the hardest Sharma will climb.
What I am curious about is the grade of Bibliographie. As the one 9b+ Megos has done is rather suited to his Frankenjura style (pockety), I wonder if a climber who had climbed 9b+ of a similar style (La Dura Dura) who then tried Bibliographie might think the grade soft?
This is all hilarious armchair speculation, I am nowhere near the level of these two climbing gods, but I do like to nerd out over this stuff.
P.S. I heard you live in Canada. If you are ever in the Squamish area and want to go climb and chat about this shit I would be super keen! HMU
@@yognaught1000 Is Sharma still projecting? That would be bonkers if he put up a 15d at 40, although I guess you see that sometimes - Dani Andrada peaked around that age.
I think the Bibliographie question is super interesting because it seems to push different climbers in different ways. Megos took ~11 days of climbing to Perfecto. Ondra got about 10 days of climbing on it and got shut down (with some really terrible conditions, to be fair), but said the top section was easy. Schubert polished it off in 3 weeks and said he almost downgraded it to 9b, but the top section felt hard for him. Overall, it's just hard to get a gauge on it.
Realistically I think Megos should've tagged at least one more 9b+ before he labeled something as 9c (but also, he's 10000x the climber I will ever be, and he can label stuff however he wants). Dura Dura seems like it would be doable for him.
It's also annoying to think how long it'll take for Silence to be repeated. Really my best hopes at this time are Ghisolfi or Bouin, because Alex has basically said he wants nothing to do with it.
I'm always happy to nerd out about this stuff! Shoot me an email any time you like - I love the theoretical discussion. I'm a Berta kid, but squaw is on my radar as soon as COVID dies down. If you're ever out in the Rockies and want to do some multi's let me know!
@@ascentionism I'm not sure whether he is actively projected it right now, what with the gym that he opened. However you see pieces of media from time to time of him trying it. Seems like it could be up in that range just for the amount of time he has spent on it.
Thats sort of what I was thinking as well. Megos calling Bib 15d seemed a bit... premature... but once again, I'm nowhere near that level. I guess time will tell, but I would really love to see some more people try Bib.
Silence I don't think will be done soon, but I was stoked to see Stefano do Change as fast as he did, so maybe it will happen!
I'm actually planning a sport climbing trip to the Bow Valley at the end of summer! Hopefully covid will have chilled out enough to allow inter-provincial travel, but we will see.
And likewise when you come out to Squamish I can take you up some CLASSIC trad multipitches!
@@yognaught1000 Yeah, Stefano did Change WAY quicker than I thought he was, and I was really impressed with how quickly he adapted to the weird Flatlanger style.
I think Schubert has already hinted that he would like to try Bib, and I feel like it would be absurd if Ondra didn't give it a shot once the Olympics are out of the way, so hopefully we'll be able to get some more ascents - it DID take Megos 60 days of work, which is an insane amount of time when you consider how quickly he crushed Perfecto, so maybe there's something to it.
Definitely let me know when you're in town! COVID-allowing, of course, but it would be sweet to hop on something.
Trad routes are spooky but I would definitely be down to try (especially because the rock in Squamish seems a lot more solid than the bullshit we have to put up with here in BV)
I love Megos' powerful style, it's fun to watch, but Ondra I feel is the more rounded, better climber but more because of his relaxed, flowy style and "less aggressive" attitude. Either way, both of these guys have my utmost respect and adoration. I like to do the Ondra screams on 5.8 cruxes lol
Right? Adam Ondra is really beautiful to watch climbing (as long as you have the volume off, lol), and it's amazing to watch how smoothly he flows through sequences
alex is unwatchable. only good to watch for climbing dummies. what is worse in him is that he is always serious. relax pal. take a smile.
You could distinguish by creating categories to establish superiority in different domains. Like athleticism (break that into subcategories like finger strength, endurance, etc.), technical abilities like (decision making, footwork, etc.), accolades (events won, flashes, etc) and maybe an X factor thing like creativity or something to then make a final assessment. I def enjoyed the video tho!
It's just a feeling as I did not reasearch him but when watching competitions Megos seems like he just do it because he has to. He does not seem to care half as much as Ondra. He also do no seem to 'embrace' and use his fame as much. Being known and all that does not seem to be his thing.
Honestly, I think I kind of agree - Adam seems to wake up every day wanting to be as good at rock climbing as possible, while Alex seems more chill. I'm not saying he doesn't train SUPER hard - he just more seems to be there to have fun
I feel like Alex isn’t really a competitive climber. I mean when looking at his results. In 2019 Adam finished as The number 1 lead climber and as the number 2 boulderer. While Alex finished as number 7 in Lead and number 19 in bouldering.
@@zennar8294 Megos seems like Güllich in that regard and just not care much about competition climbing. Thats why imo its difficult to compare them climbing plastic. Them doing the same route outdoors on sight would be more telling.
This is a Great video over all, and I agree that Adam ondra is a Stronger due to his resume on big walls & multiple V16 boulders. How ever In the climbing comparison you failed to mention that Ondra is taller and has a greater Ape index than Megos. That is why you see toe hooks>heals & 1 or 2 more moves than Ondra... Ondra also just started projecting Perfecto Mundo! So hopefully you can come out with another climbing comparison when he sends the route. Great video over 👍
Thanks! You're right, I totally forgot to mention the height difference and how it impacts their climbing.
I'm SO excited that Ondra is working Perfecto Mundo. It's going to be such an interesting insight into how long it takes him to send, especially considering it's not his style whatsoever. Maybe afterwards he could venture over and try Bibliographie...?
I would love to compare them on the route, but I'm not going to be able to - Ondra's super strict about his vlog footage, and if I use any of it, the video will get taken down for copyright infringement.
this could kinda be translated to Jain Kim and Janja, efficiency style vs bumpy
and if I’m not mistaken Adam said that Jain is his favourite female climber
That's a good comparison! I have a Janja vs Laura Rogora video, but I want to make one about Jain Kim too - her technique is so flawless
I really really like Janja's style. Her dynos are very high risk and she uses them even in situations where they are absolutely not needed, but she does them with such confidence, never doubting herself. Watching Janja climb is nerve-wrecking and amazing at the same time.
I dunno, I'd say Janja's dynamic style is actually probably more efficient but also riskier.
Great analysis. Agree.
Why use a clip of him failing to bench press? 😂 1:20
it was the last rep of a set to failure and stands for his big effort he puts into physical training.
Who’s the third you think might make good?
For a gold medal in Tokyo you HAVE to be talking about Tomoa Narasaki; I think he might actually be my favourite to win
Jakob schubert would be my guess
Good job! We luck content like this on YT, keep up 💪
Thanks!!
Very interesting thanks. Where is the video on the 10 best climbers?
That actually also got removed because of copyright restrictions. I'm working on a new version of it, though!
The Olympics with the speed climbing, did not end well for these two champs.
It seems almost like federer vs nadal 😃
How do you guys define about who is the better climber? Better means stronger? Better means more winning? How do you really define it.
I feel Adam Ondra is sort of the future of the sport. He's not ultra jacked. He just has a really good technique which I think is more accessible to a lot more people which is how sports normally develop. It's almost always technique over raw strength. Decreasing movements and increasing your movement. You're not always going ABCD. You're going A to D which allows you more movement in a smaller timeframe and is more efficient at conserving energy. Raw strength can overcome this, but at the cost of Energy. That's not to rip on Megos because it's impressive as all hell watching him hang like that, but his style is a lot less accessible as I feel it relies on his strength a bit more than technique which is still in of itself very impressive.
I guess what I'm saying is Less is more.
Where is the thumbnail picture of adam from?
That's him on "Disbelief" 5.15b! It's actually in the Bow Valley / Canmore, which is my local climbing/scrambling area.
Yep, both are stellar climbers, who wouldn't even warm up on my best achievement in terms of grade. However, one of your few plus points for Alex could actually be argued as a plus point for Adam. If they have both achieved about the same level of technical difficulty but the Lattice test suggested Alex is stronger, surely that means Adam therefore has to be more technically proficient?
cool videos mate ! could you consider translating the grade in the french system somehow ? the american one can get pretty confusing at times
Both brilliant👍
Adam is By Far the BEST. All the other climbers know it.
feels like you have a hypothesis that you want to prove. Instead of making an actual comparison.
Sorry, but the Video has to be renamed in: Who is the better Onsight-Competition Climber? You only compared them in a competition route, where they are climbing Onsight on plastic. I think its hardly possible to transfer that into Redpoint Rockclimbing.
Hey, sorry you felt that I didn't compare them enough outside! A couple of points to that:
-In the original version of this video, I do compare their styles on Fight Club and talk about how Ondra's drop-knee was a little too fanciful. However, that video got taken down because Reel Rock didn't want me to use the footage of Adam climbing Fight Club
-Literally every video of Adam climbing outside is either owned by him or by Reel Rock, and both of those companies have forbidden me from using their stuff. I literally can't show Adam climbing outdoors, which makes it hard to compare.
-Adam and Alex have less overlap in their outdoor routes than they do in competitions, so it's easier to find footage of them doing the same moves. Additionally, competitions will have a consistent camera angle, which makes it so much easier to find where they are in the route and judge their body positions.
-In lieu of them climbing outdoors, I tried to talk about their outdoor resumes to at least paint a picture of where they are.
I hope that shows why I wasn't able to show them outdoors more. I agree, that's where the true test of their ability lies, but in practical terms it's a lot harder to compare that
Résumé is the only thing that matters. Only thing that counts in climbing is what you have climbed. Megos is the better trainer sure, but no one cares about that. This isn’t body building or gymnastics. It’s climbing. Megos is a god, but Ondra is clearly the best climber to ever do it. He’s got the ticks to prove it.
That foot-hand match in the thumbnail is disgusting... In a good way
Why does it matter who's better, they are both amazing at what they do enough said
Should we cancel the olympics and just give out participation medals?
@@crimpingenthusiast Personally, I think climbing shouldn't be any one person dictating what climbing should be. And why should speed records be the only competitive part of climbing? That seems totally arbitrary. Almost like you just made it up...
Adam actually has 3 5.15c's
That's true! I always kind of forget about Vasil Vasil. My bad!
There is "best" and "strongest" and then there is "most impressive" and/or "climber who has captured the imagination of the non-climbing world" and we all know that person. It's maybe not fair, but life is not fair.
megos is technically the better climber because he has onsighted much harder grades and is significantly physically stronger. it also takes him much less time to send projects and established hard routes. if megos had the same resources as ondra he would be climbing routes that ondra simply couldn't. however could megos pull off the crazy foot move on silence? maybe not, so neither is better. there are so many metrics that you can't say which is better. ondra is more accomplished but megos is far stronger and has more potential
If both climbers were of exactly the same ability and exactly the same strength, then the governing factor for who is the better would be height/reach. This would give Adam the edge. I would argue that Alex is stronger than Adam, but Adam is slightly more efficient/accurate. Really hard to split the difference. I would like to see Alex on "Silence" and Adam on "Bibliographie"!
Very good video
Somehow Alex should be better on projects shouldn’t he? Because he is stronger and when projecting you habe forever to find out the technique.
That's actually a really interesting point! It's kind of frustrating that the two of them have never really projected a similar route. The closest I could maybe think of would be Super Crackinette, which Alex climbed in 3 goes and Adam flashed, but that's a 5.15a so it probably isn't very representative of their abilities.
@@ascentionism Yes, ah wait we have „the Project“ this 9c+/10a indoor thingy. There Alex holds the record by like one move I think, and Adam is Second place but very close... but maybe the pumpy nature of the route suits a guy with better anaerobic capacity better.
@@qawi272 That's true! I really wish more climbers spent dedicated time on The Project (even though I understand why it's not a big priority for them) because I'd love to be able to compare them side by side. I have seen the route, though, and I think is suits both of their styles pretty well - Adam's pretty decent on pumpy routes as long as there aren't any pockets, and Alex is just SO strong
@@qawi272 The Project was just a gimmicky marketing stunt. No top level climber is going to spend any time seriously trying an indoor project. The sponsors flew out some of their sponsored climbers for the event and then no one ever heard anything more about it.
I say Adam Ondra because by the time Adam was 12, he was climbing V 12's
"TH-camrs gotta TH-cam tho" Lol
Now can I make an argument here that climbers height is the difference here? LOL
It's sad for me that the climbers have to do speed climbing when it takes away time from them to actually perfect their art. Especially when they dont enjoy it. Wish olympics would separate the two sports.
I think Adam climbed A D when he was 15 not 13
I thought it was 14 haha😂
team alex
Adam looks older than Alex. Are we just seeing Adam having more experience?
i could take both of them
Adam Ondra is the best climber (especially lead climbing) but I think Tomoa Narasaki will win the 2021 Olympics because he is better at speed climbing and bouldering than Ondra.
100% agree with you! I have a video coming out on this really soon so stay tuned :)
“Meegos” is a rapper, no?
megos - when in doubt, just dyno it.
I think the only one who can compare to Ondra is Jackob Schubert,
in terms of outdoors climbs lead and boulder, and competition lead and boulder....
One step lower maybe Stefano and Megos, but far from ondra both
Its two entirely different, yet similar climbing styles.
Lmao what
@@letsprogress4124 If you watched the video this comment might make sense.
Both climbers climb at a very fast pace and while Alex relies much more on his power, Adam relies on his technique and experience.
I heard magnus meatball is better than those guys lol
Man Gus has 3x as many subscribers as Adam so he must be 3x better at rock climbing
you're going out of your way to mock someone who is bringing a lot of people to appreciate the sport and fun of climbing? and who, nonetheless, is a fantastic climber? lol...
Ich finde beide geil!!!!!
Adam Adam
Juicy!
Adam is the best climber. His focus on climbing is demonic. His technique should be our bible.
Alex is much stronger. Raw power defines him. “Fuck it I’ll campus it”.
Alex Honnold ;)
So, basically:
Ondra~~Federer
Megos~~Nadal
Gotcha, fam
I would say Ondra - Novak and Megos - Nadal )) Federer at his best is better than anyone , simply genius. I don't see such equivalent in climbing (yet)
Ondra is better because climbing is about technique and he can get stronger it's not like you can't get stronger alex migos with never Come close
Alex is Cristiano and Adam is Messi
Alex is the better sport climber, Adam is the better all around climber
Best climber of all time. Meanwhile there's a barefoot 14 year old boy in a jungle somewhere ascending a 200ft cliff with no protection for eggs or something
Ondra
This was so biased towards Ondra from the outset, you made your opinion rather clear by not focusing really on megos' strengths... Such as his stylistic abilities in pockets etc which Ondra has repeatedly admittes that he lacks
2:47 this is basically what you are talking about, he brings up megos’ strengths over ondra but says that ondra’s resume is more impressive.
Alex is way stronger so he might edge it but Adam is more skilled
Sharma
Alex is the better on-siter...
Who really cares !!
I have a hard time believing that Alex's 9c is as difficult as adams silence 9c
Ondra is way better.He won so many competitions and Megos is performing really poor.Ondra has way more hard routes climbed and his mental strength and technique is unmatched.Maybe Megos is number two.But i think that Jacob Schubert is better than Megos too.Ondra then Schubert and number three maybe Megos.I am always right!
Jakob over Stefano Ghisolfi and Seb Bouin? Lol
Megos is better than Schubert, he has both harder onsights and also harder first ascents. Comparing Ondra and Megos' performance in competitions is also pretty arbitrary since Ondra dedicates much more time to training for them. I think Megos proved in the Olympic qualifications last year that he is able to perform when he put the time in.
*alex is a horrible climber. unwatchable.* and very cold character too. adam is qute, has great, creative technique and has a nice haircut.
Ondra is way better.He won so many competitions and Megos is performing really poor.Ondra has way more hard routes climbed and his mental strength and technique is unmatched.Maybe Megos is number two.But i think that Jacob Schubert is better than Megos too.Ondra then Schubert and number three maybe Megos.I am always right!
"I am always right"?? Such a poor way to end an expression of opinion haha...
But I definetly agree. Ondra is the better climber