The REAL difference between 3 and 4 season tents
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
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Should you buy a 4 season tent? you do not need a 4 season tent. four season tents are unnecessary. Backpacking and camping and hiking and winter camping. - บันเทิง
Key features 4 season / snow capable tent: 1) Ventilation up high to ensure still working during snow accumulating outside (opposite to ventilation from "ground" 2) Fly sheet down to the ground (no cut outs) 3) no mesh so doors etc will not let snow in during a snow storm. Usually heavier material and poles to deal with heavy wind.
Absolutely! When I started winter camping in 30F degrees I learned very quickly how miserable it is to have blasts of icy air blow in under your rainfly. Brrrr - never again!
Would also add a big (2 even better) vestibules so you can bring all of your gear in, have a nice cooking place. So basically a tunnel tent where you can have good ventilation no matter what the conditions are. This Nemo would be horrible in high wind snow storm. Hars winter conditions are no joke and these guys should know it. Welcome to the Arctic’s with those 3 season tents 😂
Up here in Norway we use proper 4-season tents during the winter. One major benefit is the space, and of course increased durability.
Greetings Norway :) Also winter is not just winter... you can easily use a ultralight tent during easter on the hardangerplatou, but winter conditions in Norway can be really hard, and good luck in a real winterstorm, skiing in the mountains snow packing up on the tent, the wind is really heavy... if you need a wintertent or not is a matter of where you are going, and what the weather is like. you also need, like you said to have the space innside to coock and what not.
In Finland I also have a hot tent, but Im kind of tempted to try a lightweihgt 1 person tent, just because I can, and because I really cannot buy light 4-season tent at the moment.
I have Sea to Summit alto tr1 Plus that is "3+ season tent" with ski poles I think can make the frame pretty solid, but, I'm still thinking that apex vent in a snow storm, just by shutting it I risk that my tent can become airtight if fly is under the snow at the groud level, must just balance by leaving the apex vent zipper in just the right position and little openung to innertent door zipper because that mesh and inner tent nailon can freze airtight, or can it? Am I just overthinking it?
Yeah Im not really buying this spiel about 3 season tents being enough.
I do just fine with an Amazon 3 season tent in the Scottish Highlands in Autumn and Spring ...... in a valley.
On an exposed hill, or during winter, a 3 season ultra light would be a liability.
If you are camping somewhere like Norway or Finland, you need a 4 season tent for a reason. I have seen some hardcore Finnish guys make it work with a Polish Lavvu, but lets be honest.... pros can do a lot of things when the weather is good.
@@TheWtfnonamezI have Polish lavvu 😂
And actuallu I have a 4-season tent because I have a firestove and a tent that came with it, but it is heavy thing not to even mention the firewood.
@@TheWtfnonamezI was thinking of using just Polish lavvu in the winter, and most likely do that, it is touhh enough, but it just need to be staked properly from so many corners.
And oh it is not that you really need a tent at all, but a tent that is trapping some heat, does shelter from wind, drafts, snow and snack hungry critters is just so nice. Just a spruce, and a good sleeping system is good enought, just not nearly as comfotable. I have seen some finnish people do stuff too, I live here after all.
I camp in north Swedish mountains alot. Wouldn't even consider using a UL, paper thin tent. Why? -When it fails, you may die. Winter tent is also a kind of "trade off" between ventilation and warmth. Interesting discussion though.
Having a proper 4 season tent with snow skirts and good support structure makes a massive difference in winter camping. Also the lack of mesh helps alot in keeping the heat inside the tent.
Make sure to try out your gear in the garden before going with it winter camping. Especially moisture management while sleeping can be tricky.
I have an original Quest 4 Season 2 man tent. It's the one with the huge vestibule on the end . It has zippered flaps over the mesh up high to keep out the cold if needed in winter,. while unzipped we have ventilation control. So sad when quest went away. (too heavy to carry )
*4 Season tents are usually designed differently often with a snow skirt that allows it to be anchored with a pack of snow that blocks wind from blasting from up underneath among the things you mentioned.*
I say a tent for conditions. I live in a small very windy island in the Irish seas and used my big Agni’s cop spur that folded and snap a pole so I’m back to my “4 season fjallraven Abisko” for the tougher weather. Definitely see what this video is about. 👍
Love it, wintercamping is where i feel most alive!
I think a “3.5 Season” tent like the Durston X Mid Solid is a good compromise for most winter camping. It’s on my wishlist for next winter but I have a $27 Ozark Trail tent that I’ve camped in down to 0f. It’s more about the sleep system than the tent most of the time.
Exactly, a great sleep system and protection from the elements (wind/rain/snow/freezing rain/heat) is the way to go.
P.S. Love your name!
And, Durston is looking to sell the inner’s separately. So, you could have the mesh for nicer weather and the solid inner for those times where you feel you need it.
Gordon is killing it! Love seeing people pursue and succeed
😭 Much love… thank you!
I've been camping in the woods for over 40 years. My tent which I have had since 1986 is a 2 man Eureka Timberline. It's considerd a 4 season tent due to the aluminum poles and weight of the nylon. It stands up to extreme winds and a heavy snowload. I do agree that weaker tents will hold up in the winter but maybe not last as long. Thanks for sharing.
That Eureka Timberline is on my wishlist! Such a cool tent!
The Best winter tent I used ever was a TNF-VE 25. Used on backcountry snowboarding trip for 8 days at altitude in winter. Fit 3 adults in winter gear. I can’t say I remember condensation ever being an issue. Second best used was the black diamond”Mega-mid” pyramid on the same trip as an overnight away from base camp. Like the winter content Dan!
I love mine. You can literally use it in any weather and it wont show condensation. It's also super comfortable for 2-3 adults, you can fit all your gear in the vestibules, it feels bombproof and at 4-ish kg, I've even hiked with it no problem.
@@Francisco_Otero I will assume you mean the mega mid it is a great shelter , TNF VE 25 is a beast in many ways including weight.
4 season tents or Expedition tents (which are even a step above the 4 season) are meant for high altitude, rough conditions situations. I watch most of your videos and while it is cold, snowy, etc.. I don't think you have a grasp of what alpinist have to endure high up there. Seems like always low altitude. I haven't seen crampons or ice axes yet.
I currently own a Ferrino Pilier III which is probably unknown on the other side of the pond and let me tell you that the sturdiness, warmth and wind resistance of this tent is nowhere near of what lesser tents offer. Anchoring is a big issue in winter (number of points and size/shape so you can use skis, snowshoes, ice axes, etc).
Snow flaps are kind of a debate. It allows you to bury the outher wall so no wind can go under it. Some tents have them, others don't (mine does not have them).
Have a look at the Hilliberg tents... and you will understand how snow flaps work.
Great video as usual but... don't dismish 4 season / expedition tents.
Mikel
Have used a eureka timberline 2p for winter and mountaineering for thirty years. Has always served me and my party well.
Bless the Eureka Timberline
I also did very seriously snowshoeing camping with it
Keep them coming Dan.
I live in the tropic, so I have only 2 seasons: 1) hot & rainy, and 2) hotter and more rainy; but it's always interesting to see your videos. THANK YOU !!
This is kind of a joke guys... All fun and games when NOT too remote, extending longer term, or in truly tough context. Content-wise lots of unsound and conterfactual suggestions. It's not to say shelter selections exhibited here or 3-season stuff does not work, HOWEVER, video should not be interpreted or taken seriously if/when reliant upon for ventures into demanding, remote environments/conditions. Inadequate foundations, lack of experience with potentially unsuitable gear selections are fundamentally substandard, unfavorable guidelines, and not good recommendations. Tho' skill-set, comfort-zone, adaptability, repair know-how, familiarity, etc. are of significant factoring to pushing less than favorable, optimal gear selection in whatever situations... obtaining 4-season, well-designed/manufactured gear selection optimized to surroundings/circumstances is much better practice for preparedness and reliability.
You don't pay attention do you. I've backpacked all over the US, Canada and Alaska...never had a four season tent. Nor did I need one. It would be different if I was homeless looking for a permanent shelter. But recreational camping for less than two weeks a three season is fine. The largest I have is a cabela alaskan guide six man. And it's so heavy I have to take a sled.
Stupid comment... keyboard warrior statements. In video... Dan even negates the vast majority of the gibberish. The two of them talk situationally and ponder notions of their perceived extremes. Both pretty much clueless. They try to sum it up with a 99.9% usage BS. The true 4-season expedition reliable tent is a game changer for all seasons Alaska. By the way... your Cabelas tent is not bonafide, trusted, expedition worthy 4 season product. Most Cabelas crap can barely survive the shoulder seasons use throughout much of Alaska.
When I started hiking I used a beach tent with an additional piece of parachute. Lot of love and respect to all of you ❤️❤️🤩! Lot of love and respect from a solo mountain hiker friend from the Hindu Kush Mountains Lower Chitral District of Pakistan!
I have a 3+ season for winter camping. Its much sturdier and warmer than my 3 season. I love it!
anyone that bushcrafts a winter leanto is cool in my book and worth a subscribe
Dan 2/20 and just heard you were hurt and wanted to say you and your family are in our thoughts and prayers
I have an old Moss Superdome. It's a true 4 season tent, and it's incredible. A bit heavy for backpacking, but it can be done. One person takes the main body of the tent, and the other takes the rain fly. I've carried it into the backcountry on snowmobile trips, late-season rafting, and canoe trips. I've spent over a hundred nights in it during the winter.
Love it keep up the great work!
Still love you man. Always inspiring and insightful. Keep’em coming when you can
SEMPER FI
I love the old Big Agnes Fly Creek tents for winter. The mesh is a small strip at the top, so the solid lower blocks all the wind and keeps you at least 10 degrees warmer.
Heading out this weekend on a snowshoe trip below tree line in my Mountain Laurel Design Duomid with a solid inner from 3F ul.
That's really good to know.
When in the past I'd ski in some place to spend the night---I had a 4 season tent. Especially if you're "riding the storm out on a full moon night in the Rocky Mountain Winter"
As a bivy sleeper I typically just add a tarp and fire to my sleeping plans. Really I don't need all that if I don't mind being more stationary, utilizing natural resources, but it really shows that we don't need too much more to survive the cold as longs as we dress appropriately and know how to manage sweat and fire
I always have a tarp over the tent … and I always have a bivi bag 🔥🔥🔥✌️😜✌️🍀🍀🍀
Definitely depends where. I took a MSR elixir just above the tree line, in spring, a surprise blizzard rolled in and crushed the tent with just wind. We had to run back to safety before nightfall. Since then I only take sturdy tents into potential high wind conditions.
Poor tent placement may have been a factor. We camped in a heavily sheltered cut out in the snow. However it ended up funnelling wind onto the top of the tent squashing it like a pancake.
What tents do you use now if I may ask?
Mont Dragonfly 4 season. It’s not super hardcore and similar layout to the MSR, but much stronger DAC poles and sturdier fabric.
@@murphychris314 my favourite tent , survived heaps of big mountain storms because of it.
@@Rpsb2 the MSR Elixir?
@@murphychris314 the mont dragonfly, I like to be able to go hiking at anytime during the year and in the ranges here you kinda need a storm resistant tent for autum-spring
Nice video, I took my nemo kunai down to -18 F few weeks back. Really went well, even with 0 degree bag was plenty warm. Should have had vents open more than i did, condensation wasn't great in the morning but was worried about waking up cold...
Hi Dan - I think it’s important too also mention not only what kind of tent you buy but where you buy it from and what the warranty is from the manufacturer. I over bought when I got my Nemo Kunai 2p. I wanted something that would be as you guys are talking about a more ‘weather proof vs four season’. When going on photo shoots it’s good to get to where the shot I hope to get the day before instead of hiking in the dark. If the weather catches me I want to know that my shelter can take it. No snow camping in this tent yet but super heavy rains and 35-50 mph gust and it’s solid. Thanks for the reviews. Happy Trails - Roger
HA! I did the Frozen Butt Hang there this year! Same lake!
There are only 2 weeks out of the year where I love that a 4 season tent is called for. I’ll just wait it out and take that time to restock and maintain my gear.
I camp a lot in the winter. The last two years I have upgraded to a hot tent, but for many, many years I camped in cold tents. Mostly 3 season tents. I did get a four season tent and the condensation inside was terrible. To the point where it was like I was getting snowed on inside the tent. I have also camped in a Tentsile tree tent in winter which just has a fly over top of mesh. I camped in that at -34C. It was fine because I was in a good sleep system.
Hey Dan, could you possibly do a video on tent repair options such as a good option to patch the bug net on your tent?
I like where you're going with the video: "just get out there with the gear you've got & you can afford...don't be terrified of winter." A lot of truth to that! :-)
That said: I've had 3 tents destroyed by high winds in the past 20 years, 1 with fiberglass poles & 2 with hollow steel poles, all with big rips in the fabric when the tents finally failed...in MN, SD, & TX. We're not talking the Himalayas here, or even chinook winds off the Rockies.
Winter tents need to be properly staked. I remember watching a video of a guy in the UK recount how his tent went airborne with him in it (last year?).
Cold makes materials more brittle - both the poles & the fabric...I've had elastomer that's tougher than saddle leather at 30 above, tear with very little twisting at -20. (Thank God for a zip tie temp fix.)
I think a lot of people use a 4-season tent for comfort/peace of mind as a basecamp type deal for a week...carry a lightweight emergency shelter or space blanket in your daypack...come back daily to the spacious 4-season tent with room to dry out that gear that keeps accumulating moisture if you're outside for more than 3 or 4 days in the winter.
If I'm 5 minutes from my vehicle & the winter forecast is perfect: 25 above, little wind, no snow, 1 or 2 nights out with my friends...by all means, that tent you got on a blue light special from K-Mart in 1975 will suit me fine.
But I'm a tad skeptical that Jon Krakauer is the only one on the planet who actually needs a 4-season tent...just saying! ;-) I do agree with your general sense: if the winter weather's going to be good, get out there & camp with what you have...it's a blast! :-)
I love the channel, Dan! Thanks!
I use a Traptent Moument DW for winter. It's a tunnel style tent with a lot of four season features. So far it's proven to be a tough little 2lb tent. Roomy too. I'm 6'5" and can not use most backpacking tents. Especially one person designs.
Really important clarification about those shorts...
It wasn’t until my 5th year as a Alaska resident before I found the perks worth it to have a 4 season tent
The tents are made of heavy vinyl-coated polyester fabrics that are securely insulated to maintain coolness during high temperatures. This material is a special fabric that has flame-retardant, UV-blocking, waterproof, and anti-tear features
In this day and age, there are thousands of brands and varieties of tents out there. However, almost all tents can be grouped into 1 of 4 categories based on their shape. Here are the 4 different types of tents: A-Frame tents, Pyramid tents, Hoop tents, and Dome tents.
*** A-frame tent Scout
A-Frame tents: A-Frame tents take on a triangular, “Letter-A” shape and are often supported by a pole on each end. These tents tend to have ample floor area, but not a lot of air space, as the sides slope inward in a triangle shape. These are the tents my troop used, and are generally a popular, inexpensive option for camping!
*** Dome tents:
Another very popular type of tent, dome tents are usually made with poles that criss-cross over their middle in a “dome” shape. These types of tents are strong and spacious, so they’re a great option for most conditions. In fact, my current tent is a dome tent!
*** Hoop tents:
Hoop tents create their frame by bending poles in a half-circle and connecting their sidewalls to those poles (the image is a very large hoop tent; most look like that but are smaller). Therefore, most hoop tents only consist of 2 or 3 long poles.
Pyramid Tents
*** Pyramid tents:
Pyramid tents are supported in their middle by a single pole, with the tent’s fabric being pulled out and pegged on each of its sides. From what I’ve seen, pyramid tents aren’t too popular as a smaller tent type, since the central pole can get in the way. However, I’ve made this structure with a tarp and a hiking pole while backpacking, and it works pretty well in a pinch!
Quick question I live in a mostly warm climate year round except around January if I get a sleeping pad with a higher R rating will I be sweating or feel hot though out the rest of the year or would it be ok
Good information
Here in Colorado if you intend to camp in the alpine in the winter you really need/want a 4-season tent. Wind can be just brutal. That said most days a non-ultralight 3-season tent is plenty even up there if you stake it properly. As usual ymmv depending on location, weather and comfort tolerance/preference.
What would you say your typical base weight is on a weekend trip?
My Tiger Wall Platinum collapsed on me during a snow in Tennessee. Luckily the poles popped back into place when I pushed it up from the inside. Point being, when it’s a wet snow, it doesn’t take more than a couple inches to collapse a semi-freestanding tent. My Cooper Spur would have probably held the weight.
Have you ever tried the Hilleberg tents? if so, what is your opinion?
When I took my msr hubba hubba out this last Christmas it started as rain in the 30s then turned to snow and ended up being negative 18 degrees
I will say it held up but the tent walls froze and I literally had to cut my lines
As they were so frozen
Would definitely recommend proper tent for conditions like that
I have a Mountain Hardware Trango 2 and it is an 8 pound overbuilt winter storm tent.
It does have a lot of room for gear though.
Most of the time in MI people winter camp in 3 season tents and they work just fine here
I do a lot of year round camping and have a 'four' season tent I have used in both summer and winter. There have been a number of nights where I was the only one warm in my tent and the rest of the guys ( with a lot of experience ) complained of a cold night. Especially now that I am older an extra 5 to 15 degrees of warmth means a lot especially when you need to pee in the middle of the night. That being said it does get stuffy during the summer and I use a three season for that. Love your video's guys!!
Exactly, a good 4 season tent (I use TNF - VE25) will work great on any season. It's cool enough for summer (never had condensation on it) and warm / rugged enough for winter. It's spacious for 2 adults and I use it a lot for car camping because it's just so darn comfortable.
After a windy but little to no snow campout last year with the scouts I bought a cheap "winter" dome tent off Amazon, there are several brands, pick your poison. This particular tent is a small two person (or one with gear) double wall polyester with just a bit of mesh and snow/wind flaps at the bottom of the rain fly. Packed size is pretty small and weight is actually respectable (probably 5 lbs). I would backpack with it. I really do think it kept me a little warmer with a low temp of 19f. I was able to get away with my second warmest sleeping bag (10 degree survival rating) using a 4.9r value air pad. Condensation was noticeable but no issues with dripping on me. Anyhow, I will continue to use it and think despite it being two pounds heavier than my summer backpacking tent it allows me to save a little weight in the sleep system vs a tent with lots of ventilation. My humble $.02. Thanks for the great content Dan!
@DanBecker , I'm from Wisconsin, the Milwaukee area. Can you recommend any areas to primitive winter camp?
Dan what Rab model jacket are you wearing in this video?
Dixie in the Homemade Wanderlust channel recently had an Iceland trip that demonstrates the need for a four season tent pretty well. And then you have the expedition tents that go even a step further.
But yeah, start out with a three season tent, try out camping during summer when the weather is favorable and then see how far you can comfortably stretch it. And then, if you start to fear that your tent may break, you can find yourself a more serious tent. Just don't think that you'll want to lug that around in nice weather.
used my pariah bryce last night... it was 3 degrees and got 6 inches of new snow. ALLL of your gear choices determine your comfort when outdoors not any single piece
I love my Terranova Pioneer2. Good for all year use. 1.9kgs and solid. I have always though if I need a tent that needs to be more robust that this due to conditions, I probably shouldn’t be out in it
What's this, Fjällräven pants? Haven't been following this channel for long but think it's the first time I'm seeing any of their stuff on here. Wooo!
your facial expressions on your thumbnails are freaking hilarious
Next time you are in northern WI, give Danny and I at Superior Gear a shout! That’s our stopping grounds!
@Dan , Would love if you get the chance to review the Decathlon Forclaz MT900 tent.
Worst night camping ever was in a 3 season Dome tent on a good 2.5” foam sleeping pad and a 0 degree bag with a wool blanket under me for additional warmth. The temp was 12 degrees with about 15 mph wind. The wind was constant and kept coming into the tent. It was humid out.
I have since slept in colder conditions in a 4 season tent with same sleep system and was not freezing.
I agree most times you do. NOt need a 4 season tent but if youre not backpacking or not hiking too far the extra 3 pounds can make a big difference.
Of course there are other options as some went over in video. But most people freeze all night or just pack up and dash to the car. Heck lots of people hear something and dash to the car these days as it is 🤣🤣
My 4 season tents are 5-8 pounds depending on the size. My back packing tent is 2.2 pounds that is 1 person so for 3 more pounds i can be good in what ever weather i end ip in not having to carry Tarps or have to pack ip and hike out or tend to a fire the entire night or shack and freeze all night.
I've got a so called 3+ season tent it's all mesh inner and it gets so cold when the wind blows.yes 3 season tents can be used in winter on those days it isn't really windy and there's no spin drift or heavy snow expected
I love winter camping. I sleep so much better bundled up in cold air. Makes me sad that I'm moving south for work.
But Dan! Where were you for the Frozen Butt Hang? Love the video and love seeing Game Lake again.
LOL I backpacked for years with a 3 person arctic season North Face (talking small holes around, except for entrance) and a Dana pack, in Alaska. Who cared what the weather was doing. All my gear inside, including my pee water bottle. That was before I started weighing my gear. PS: I'm a 5'2 female. I will admit that the guy I was backpacking with got to carry the bulk of it, I got poles and fly. Ha ha. Loved that tent.
Lewis and Clark were sponsored by Hillberg
wanna come out here and borrow my Hilleberg Nallo 2 so you can show a 4 season tent.
I did all the "hard conditions" you guys said with a 3 seasons tent and its fine...
I have a 31 year old Sierra Design 3 season tent that is nearly 6 pounds and cost about $270 in 1992, made to withstand winds up to 80mph. It never let me down in all kinds of weather, mostly heavy rain.
I have a 20 yo sierra designs Hercules AST four season tent rated to 100mph. It’s never let me down either. It cost me something like $700 way back then
@@superwag634 hard to beat an SD tent!
From now on, when I want to feel cool, I'm going to channel Dan walking in slow mo
I just realized that walking or ski poles can be used to make sea to summit alto tents vestibules freestanding, and something just long enought to strech the headend to full widht on the ground to make the whole tent quite rigid self standing tent.
I have TR1 Plus version that is 3+ season tent, Bow I don't has to worry that much about winds and those sticks can take some snowload over the apex vent, but the snow coming in from it 🤔
Any suggestions?
Oh and hope that nailon can take that snowload too.
As the Realtors say Location location location. Expedition tents are meant for situations where it's likely going to be impractical to bail. If the route out is over a high pass or steep complex ground you would not be able to traverse at night in a storm you may be very glad to have a bomb proof and roomy tent. You may also be stuck in it for a couple of days. One big difference between standard and expedition tents and a major factor in the weight difference is simply the amount of room. A winter expedition 2 man tent would sleep 3 or 4 in easy conditions but stormed in, having to bring ALL your gear inside and cook in the tent you absolutely need the room. Conversely the situation in the video is accessible and sheltered, just a bit chilly so definitely a good sleeping bag and pad are the priority. Note I use the term expedition tent not 4 season. You also get 3 season expedition tents often called base camp tents.
The super durable tents for extreme weather, I have heard them called expedition tents.
A lot of cheap '4 season' tents are basically a 3 season tent with a 4 season inner tent (very little mesh). However, the fly and poles are faily standard items.
Can I use a electric heater in a 4 Seasonal Tent?
Dan do you know of any bivvy bag that takes the big angas rapid sl regularly wide sleep sleep mat
Go and try a Hilleberg tent. Ask Randy Newberg, or Aron Snyder. They are back country high alpine hunters that can give you some perspective when you will want a 4 season.
Still worth it to get a 4 season tent if you go often. I have a Black Diamond Highlight 2 (the blue one), and it is about 4 lbs. It's a mountaineering tent, actually, so I feel confident to take it out in some pretty knarly conditions.
How do you like it? Looking for a good 2 person tent to take on a mount Shasta climb in June
@@stevenuseda6317 I like it a lot! Very comfortable and warm. I noticed that the temperature increased substantially once I had it zipped up. Setting it up takes practice and is a pain, I'll admit. That's because the poles set up on the inside. But that is what allows it to be both strong and light (as a solo female I really can't carry anything heavier than that). It weighs about the same as the Big Agnes copper spur 2p, if I remember correctly. The plus is that breaking it down takes seconds. Just pull the front corner poles out of the door and down it goes. It is strictly for winter. It doesn't have enough ventilation for wet/rainy weather and it will bake you in warm weather. Hope that helps. Pro tip: don't lay the poles on the snow. If they get wet they will freeze overnight and you'll have poles stuck together. This is the case for any tent. (blowing hot breath on them will thaw them out). Hope that helps!
This is a matter of scenarios. If you're a youtuber doing a few days in the cold with your car or a building or other people fairly close by, you can away with whatever. If your are doing month long expeditions in cold weather far away from civilization, you would never use Nemo Hornet Elite or any other toy tent. You would use an expedition grade four season tent that can hold up to extreme conditions for days on end and that you can meaningfully repair and where you have a number of contingencies. Ultralight would not be an option. Surviving is more important than weight.
But sure, basically if you have a backup plan and know that you're not putting yourself in danger even if your tent is ripped by winds or weight of snow etc, then you can get by with whatever.
Not sure where you get a double walled 4-seasn tent has more condensation. The purpose of that second wall is to let condensation escape the first wall and settle on the outside wall, preferable an outside wall with vents. Contrary to popular belief, double walls aren't about being warmer.
That being said, most of my 4-season tents are single walled tipi shelters which shed wind and snow using a single pole.
Of course you can just 4-season camp in a hammock under a tarp with the right site selection.
Lack of ventilation creates more condensation. This is very typical of 4 season tents
@@DanBecker The inner layer is meant to keep it off. That's why it's not mesh.
If you take a look at tunnel style 4-season tents, they're meant to have the rear pitched into the wind, and the rear has a vent that carries over the ceiling into the vestibule. Single walled 4-season tents tend to be a different beast intended to be used in alpine areas with little space for larger tents.
100% a 4 season tent has more condensation. Most hunters know this and prepare for it. It's talked about all the time. So.......that's prob where he gets it. Cause it's true.
@@southbaygladiator7748 Cold has more condensation.
Take a look at a Hildeberg tunnel to see how they're built to manage condensation.
The outer is meant to capture it. The inner is meant to keep it off of you. With a mesh inner, you get a rain or a snow shower inside. With a breathable inner, it doesn't.
The best bet of a real, durable, not too heavy four season tent that would stand up to extended periods of extreme weather conditions would be a black label Hilleberg.
I have the Kodiak 12x12 hot tent. Mainly bc if I'm going to get my gf out with me in the winter I have to have a place I can keep 70° also use it for deer camp. But it's definitely not for backpacking
Im in Utah and my 4 season tent is a MRS Hubba HP.
when its blowing 69 proper units per second and snowing from down up and sideways ima be glad for proper tent tho
if you are going in a really cold temperature(under -25C) i recommend using a 4 season tent, a hot tent, only a tarp, a bivy sack or a combinaison of bivy and tarp, because condensation will freeze all your material and i assure you it’s not funny the second night and when you need to pack.
I’ve seen some parts of the industry start to replace the 3/4 season terminology with backpacking/mountaineering or with treeline/alpine terminology which seems more descriptive
Dan, never change brother! There is a reason you are accumulating so much subscribers! Your spirit cheers us up! Stay blessed!
Can you list the specs of a true 4 season tent ?
Every year it happens, more than once. A person who believes is experienced, goes to the Brazilian rainforest, and they bring a 3 season tent, or even a 4 season tent, and DIE on 30-degree (C) weather of hipotermia. I don't like the season definition. The things that need to be considered is: water column, wind resistence and snow shedding. A 4 season tent with less than 8000 mm in the exterior wall and 12000 mm in the floor is very likely to not hold you dry. So, I advise people to not consider the season rating and look at the specs. Consider the weather were you go and decide the tent: humid? Double wall. Strong winds? Freestanding with very high wind speed tested resistance. Lots of rain? High colum rating and without any nylon. Etc.
I've built hunting shelters for a few dollars out of cheap tarps and sticks that lasted years in the mountains through feet of snow.
^ I’ve actually slept in the Antarctic winters for years in nothing but socks and I’ve been fine, don’t let this guy fool you into thinking you need tarps and sticks.
@@dukezaragoza6663 I've actually camped out on the moon without socks or oxygen. Don't let this guy fool you. You don't actually need socks or air.
@@Befread i dont even believe in camping, I just hike non stop and if I need to sleep, I just sleepwalk along the same route. I leave everything at home including my belly button because thats how our ancestors adam and eve used to travel. Dont let this guy fool you, you dont need to stop at all
@@MrAshraffwk I'm permanently walking through the vacuum of space, no oxygen, no clothes, no sticks, no socks. Just emptiness. What a fool if you think you really need a surface to camp/eternally hike
@@suruived95 I've actually slept completely naked, frozen into an ice cube under the water for months. Don't let this guy fool you into thinking you need walking or the vacuum of space.
What's everybody's favorite backpacking tent for high winds?
This may be a fair assessment for the lower 48, but think of your Canadian viewers, Northern European viewers, etc.
I know you don’t do videos about winter camping specifically, and are more geared towards hiking (not skiing or other winter sports). I think you should have someone on the channel who is familiar with proper winter camping scenarios, and the benefits of a 4 season tent. Break down the pros and cons instead of just saying you don’t need one. I own a Hilleberg and it is absolutely bombproof. Not a fan of the narrative that a single wall tent can act as a winter tent either. Talk about moisture management and condensation!
I’ve used my Marmot Hammer at about -10F, my FF -25F bag touched at the head and foot and every time I moved I got a condensation shower in the face. But it was definitely doable, if I’d had the vestibule I would have left it unzipped to help with ventilation. At 4lb for the tent, poles, and stakes I can live with it. My Mountain 25 is over twice as heavy but maybe I’ll give it a try this winter. I need some practice setting it up, anyway.
I just wish I was badass enough to do things that required a 4 season tent. Like the scientists you described, badasses.
I’ve had poles snap on me twice on winter camps. Never using a hubbed poles again.
If you are going to experience heavy snow loads a 3 season tent will not cut it. I've had a Trango 2 out in heavy NH snow and it wanted to buckle under that snow.
Hey Dan, you should go winter camping with Justin outdoors, he did a -50c wintet camp
Great video Dan. I’ve been holding off buying as I felt I may need a 4 season for snow camping but was then worried it would be too hot in summer.
Get a “hybrid” or 3.5 season tent. They’re built a little stronger than 3-season tents but don’t have snow flaps or as many guy lines and usually can’t be sealed 100% against spindrift. They’re more than adequate for winter camping below treeline. My long-discontinued ALPS Mountaineering Jagged Peak 2 is an example of a hybrid tent.
I guess high winds in Wisconsin are 20 mph…..you get one of those twiggy tents in 40-50 mph wind and those twiggy tents will fold up like a cheap suit! We get a lot of that in the sierras …. Twiggy could kill ya in big weather !
anyone looking for a light 4 season tent go with the onetigris stella tent it is under 200$ and weighs 4 pounds. Has double nylon walls and the design of the tent is made to where you get good ventilation.
... Forget the season .. pack for the conditions ....Forget the weight ,, it is what it is .... in winter ,, use a snowmachine or a pulk sled to carry needed gear .... stay comfortable ,, not just survive .... .. Why do all tubers set up tents in wide open areas ,, meadows or middle of an exposed frozen lake ?? ..... when there is dense tree cover nearby to protect you from the elements ,, along with not using an overhead tarp for cover protection .. seems that only see tarps used for hammock setups and that of course is in the trees ...
... I see the season rating is only a marketing means to suggest a weather standard ... in winter .. for portability ....NOTHING beats a Hot Tent ... ( for me Canvas).. for comfort and conditions .... .......backpacking tents in freezing and sub zero temps is miserable near suicidal .. and always brings up the question of ..." WHY " ....
Dan looks like he's so much colder than Gordon out there, lol.