There will never, ever be a third crossing thanks to the Labour controlled South Wales Assembly Government. North Wales doesn't count. The South Wales lot would rather waste money on Kerdiff loss making airport.
They need a bridge from Caernarfon to Anglesey it would decrease traffic on the A55 and Menai bridge. And be handy for residents of Caernarfon from travelling 7 miles to Bangor to go to Anglesey.
Great presentation, a very beautiful land, unusual eye-catching bridge idea. Just a point, it's The Mabinogi (beginnings, genesis tales) not children's tales as Mabinogion means. Got this from Alan Wilson & Baram Blackett's writings. Welsh heritage is amazing.
I'm no engineer but I'd prefer to investigate the possibility of modifying the Britannia bridge lower deck to carrying road traffic. A new rail crossing could be built just north of Y Felinheli, utilising the old veynol tunnels on the closed Caernarfon line. Then diverting across the Veynol estate and crossing the straits before rejoining the Holyhead line south of Gaerwen. (Llanfair PG would unfortunately lose its station). This all depends on whether its possible to convert the lower rail deck of the Britannia bridge to carry road traffic. High wind shielding could be retrofitted to the top deck to bring the bridge up to modern standards and make it more resilient to the weather.
Aside from the loss of Llanfair PG - Which would haemorrhage _lots_ from tourist receipts - This would require the bridge planning process be started afresh, and that means another 10+ years of designs and consultations and objections and funding challenges. The lower height of a bridge in that location might also cause issues with the listed status of the Britannia Bridge and the view down the strait toward Menai as well. 👀 I've walked across the strait via the redundant rail span before, and I'm confident the most you'd get from moving rail elsewhere is another two lanes, and those would have to have a 3,25m height and 2,1m width restriction to them. That's OK for cars, vans and bicycles, but not much else. 😳
@@dieseldragon6756 A far cheaper and more realistic solution to the traffic bottleneck on the Britannia bridge would be to install a traffic management system in the form of variable speed limits on the A55 approaches.
@@leejohnson3209 That would definitely work, as might having reserved „flows“ across the bridge for freight traffic, where freight waits in a designated area and then is signalled across the bridge in convoy, other traffic from Llanfair being stopped to give them direct access. 🚛 Also; The higher the speed limit, the longer the separation distances employed and thus the fewer vehicles passing a given point per minute. I wonder if putting a 30mph limit on the bridge could increase throughput _and_ contribute to making the bridge safer to use in heavier weather conditions? 😇
@@dieseldragon6756 I think one of the problems is everyone racing up to the bridge at 70mph then... crunch. If traffic can be gradually slowed down to 40mph from say Abergwyngregyn and Llangefni it gives merging traffic on the bridge more time to clear. Also the island 'on ramps' 8 and 8a could be controlled by part time signals at rush hour. Some reengineering of the A5 and A5025 to allow for queuing traffic would be required. The bridge itself could be retro fitted with wind barriers for improved weather resilience and safety. I'd also consider the possibility of a central barrier to separate the east and west carriageways on the whole length of the bridge. Finally I'd consider the possibility of converting the unused lower deck up-line as a dedicated cycle way. I've never been a fan of putting another road bridge next to the current britannia bridge for environmental and aesthetic reasons.
@@leejohnson3209 I'm wondering if those aesthetic reasons (Which are part of the listed status) might be why the bridge can't (IIUC) have wind defences added to it. Part of me wonders if transparent ones - Made of toughened glass or polymer panels (Seen on many sound defence barriers in Germany) - Might work around that limitation? 💡 Better control of traffic flow approaching and over the bridge would help matters a lot, possibly even extending to temporary holds of traffic heading in the off-peak direction short of the bridge and traffic in peak direction signalled to proceed in both lanes? The downside to that approach being the „wrong side“ working has to be confirmed clear of the bridge before off-peak traffic can be signalled on and vice-versa, leading to long dwell times between modes and capacity loss. ⏳ Wales already makes extensive use of lane control systems (And these are normally configured with bi-directional working in mind in places e.g. Penmaenbach where natural events might block flow in one direction) so people would readily understand these over Pont Britannia too. Combine it with „Operation Stack“ style queueing lanes in advance of the bridge on both sides and (As you suggest) entry control signals at Llanfair, you probably have everything you need to operate the bridge in the most efficient and flexible manner possible despite the unchangeable nature of the bottleneck that it presents. 😇 That said, I don't think a barrier down the middle would work. Clearance over the bridge is tight enough as it is - Especially through the towers - And I've seen passing HGVs have to slow right down to ensure they can pass each other safely (e.g: If it goes wrong, the impact is lesser, safer, and unlikely to send either/both vehicles into the Menai.) 👍
Having crossed the strait _Menai_ times throughout childhood up until my 30s _and_ having a thing for civil engineering, I would _love_ to have had the chance to submit one of my low-arch long-span designs for that! Pretty much an arch bridge, but with the road deck in a different position such that the arch isn't nearly so prominent e.g. like on the Tyne/Sydney Harbour bridges. 😇 Sadly; I came here from another video that had been uploaded a day before this comment. In that, the presenter said the third crossing had been cancelled... 🙁
Anglesey and North Wales need something of this magnitude to put us firmly on the tourism map this project as put in the film seems to tick so many boxes. Why not also tie in the proposed pylons that the national grid seem bent on putting across the island. They could tie into the story instead of putting up conventional pylons have a design like they have in other countries of walking men/women Looking like some of the characters mentioned in the film, dynywen, etc . Let’s think big !
@Irish Viking I don’t disagree with you we need to boost the economy in this area with full time better paid jobs and not rely on the jobs currently supporting the local economy in the service industry but this is just not happening in fact the opposite . Companies are closing companies that have been here for many years. This project would put the area on the map show how innovative we can be in the area and could act as a catalyst for industries to want to invest in the area. The university could be training students for potential employers instead of students seeking employment elsewhere is the country. It’s not a case of either or but a combined effort to increase the opportunities available in the area.
A fantastic and beautiful idea for a third bridge, but sadly as or Welsh Labour government have suspended all road building for the forseeable future, a third crossing now seems unachievable
If I recall correctly the options for a new 4-lane bridge in the consultation documents also appear to retain the current A55 bridge deck above the railway, meaning there would be 6 A55 lanes across the Menai. Given that the rest of the A55 is 4-lane, 6 lanes (8 if you also count the suspension bridge) across the Menai is far more than necessary. So, where's the option to build a new 4-lane bridge (with pavements for pedestrains and cyclists), demolish the current A55 bridge deck and restore double track on the railway? That would help make the lions visible again and allow improvements to the rail service (the A55 bridge deck above the railway might also be a barrier to future electrification of the railway). The government is supposed to be encouraging modal shift towards public transport; you don't do that by increasing a 2-lane road to a 6-lane one, you do it by improving public transport.
I have to say that I really don't like this design at all, there are much more ways of making a bridge elegant, include cultural elements and make it more modern using engineering advancements. Both Menai and Britannia were huge feats of engineering in their times and this just feels unimaginative in comparison. Also you can't say that cable stayed bridges are "excitable from the wind" and then use a clip from Tacoma Narrows, that was nearly 80 years ago and now Engineers know much more about how wind frequencies can affect large structures.
@@Aron-ru5zk The speed limit on the bridge is 50mph ,obviously you have not driven over it .Maybe therefore you are one of the ones that cause the problem .I arrest my case!
@@Aron-ru5zk Reading your post again ,you have no clue about the bridge,quote "4 lanes plus on 2 ramps going into 2 lanes" please explain 2 ramps! There is one road merging from each side of the bridge onto the road over .Dallt?
Terence Wyn Roberts the on/ off ramps coming off the 2 roundabouts on the Bangor side come up onto a dual carriageway and then merge into a single carriageway, I was counting the lanes going both ways
@@Aron-ru5zk There is only one lane merging onto either side of the bridge,it doesn't matter if there was 24 roundabouts either side they all merge into one slip road. The problem is that idiots reduce their speed to under 50 mph over the bridge . I have crossed that bridge on my motorcycle and car since it was opened and always people reduce their speed .The speed limit is 50 mph unless strong winds .No need for 3rd bridge .People who think that the speed limit is 30mph need throwing off the bridge.
Awful ugly idea. Why impose the arrogance of man on such a beautiful landscape? Worst idea I've seen in years. Wouldn't even be needed if it weren't for Wylfa B. It makes me physically sick think I'd have to drive past this twice a day.
Fantastic film - let's hope it comes to fruition
Great stuff, Bont, what a great video and comments, bloody briliant
This is an awesome idea bring it on, lets have some forward thinking for a change !!!!
Some amazing ideas here. Hope its not just a pipe dream. We need to spread the word.
There will never, ever be a third crossing thanks to the Labour controlled
South Wales Assembly Government. North Wales doesn't count.
The South Wales lot would rather waste money on Kerdiff loss making airport.
I was the Bangor Fireman who took the initial call to the fire on the Britannia Tubular Bridge
on Saturday 23rd May 1970 at 21.45 Hrs.
Such a great idea and so carefully thought out. We need our Angel of the North equivalent
Some excellent ideas here.
They need a bridge from Caernarfon to Anglesey it would decrease traffic on the A55 and Menai bridge. And be handy for residents of Caernarfon from travelling 7 miles to Bangor to go to Anglesey.
Fantasic idea, bring the Welsh Legends to life.
Great presentation, a very beautiful land, unusual eye-catching bridge idea. Just a point, it's The Mabinogi (beginnings, genesis tales) not children's tales as Mabinogion means. Got this from Alan Wilson & Baram Blackett's writings. Welsh heritage is amazing.
Bring it on, seize the day
I'm no engineer but I'd prefer to investigate the possibility of modifying the Britannia bridge lower deck to carrying road traffic.
A new rail crossing could be built just north of Y Felinheli, utilising the old veynol tunnels on the closed Caernarfon line. Then diverting across the Veynol estate and crossing the straits before rejoining the Holyhead line south of Gaerwen. (Llanfair PG would unfortunately lose its station).
This all depends on whether its possible to convert the lower rail deck of the Britannia bridge to carry road traffic. High wind shielding could be retrofitted to the top deck to bring the bridge up to modern standards and make it more resilient to the weather.
Aside from the loss of Llanfair PG - Which would haemorrhage _lots_ from tourist receipts - This would require the bridge planning process be started afresh, and that means another 10+ years of designs and consultations and objections and funding challenges. The lower height of a bridge in that location might also cause issues with the listed status of the Britannia Bridge and the view down the strait toward Menai as well. 👀
I've walked across the strait via the redundant rail span before, and I'm confident the most you'd get from moving rail elsewhere is another two lanes, and those would have to have a 3,25m height and 2,1m width restriction to them. That's OK for cars, vans and bicycles, but not much else. 😳
@@dieseldragon6756 A far cheaper and more realistic solution to the traffic bottleneck on the Britannia bridge would be to install a traffic management system in the form of variable speed limits on the A55 approaches.
@@leejohnson3209 That would definitely work, as might having reserved „flows“ across the bridge for freight traffic, where freight waits in a designated area and then is signalled across the bridge in convoy, other traffic from Llanfair being stopped to give them direct access. 🚛
Also; The higher the speed limit, the longer the separation distances employed and thus the fewer vehicles passing a given point per minute. I wonder if putting a 30mph limit on the bridge could increase throughput _and_ contribute to making the bridge safer to use in heavier weather conditions? 😇
@@dieseldragon6756 I think one of the problems is everyone racing up to the bridge at 70mph then... crunch.
If traffic can be gradually slowed down to 40mph from say Abergwyngregyn and Llangefni it gives merging traffic on the bridge more time to clear.
Also the island 'on ramps' 8 and 8a could be controlled by part time signals at rush hour. Some reengineering of the A5 and A5025 to allow for queuing traffic would be required.
The bridge itself could be retro fitted with wind barriers for improved weather resilience and safety. I'd also consider the possibility of a central barrier to separate the east and west carriageways on the whole length of the bridge. Finally I'd consider the possibility of converting the unused lower deck up-line as a dedicated cycle way.
I've never been a fan of putting another road bridge next to the current britannia bridge for environmental and aesthetic reasons.
@@leejohnson3209 I'm wondering if those aesthetic reasons (Which are part of the listed status) might be why the bridge can't (IIUC) have wind defences added to it. Part of me wonders if transparent ones - Made of toughened glass or polymer panels (Seen on many sound defence barriers in Germany) - Might work around that limitation? 💡
Better control of traffic flow approaching and over the bridge would help matters a lot, possibly even extending to temporary holds of traffic heading in the off-peak direction short of the bridge and traffic in peak direction signalled to proceed in both lanes? The downside to that approach being the „wrong side“ working has to be confirmed clear of the bridge before off-peak traffic can be signalled on and vice-versa, leading to long dwell times between modes and capacity loss. ⏳
Wales already makes extensive use of lane control systems (And these are normally configured with bi-directional working in mind in places e.g. Penmaenbach where natural events might block flow in one direction) so people would readily understand these over Pont Britannia too. Combine it with „Operation Stack“ style queueing lanes in advance of the bridge on both sides and (As you suggest) entry control signals at Llanfair, you probably have everything you need to operate the bridge in the most efficient and flexible manner possible despite the unchangeable nature of the bottleneck that it presents. 😇
That said, I don't think a barrier down the middle would work. Clearance over the bridge is tight enough as it is - Especially through the towers - And I've seen passing HGVs have to slow right down to ensure they can pass each other safely (e.g: If it goes wrong, the impact is lesser, safer, and unlikely to send either/both vehicles into the Menai.) 👍
Having crossed the strait _Menai_ times throughout childhood up until my 30s _and_ having a thing for civil engineering, I would _love_ to have had the chance to submit one of my low-arch long-span designs for that! Pretty much an arch bridge, but with the road deck in a different position such that the arch isn't nearly so prominent e.g. like on the Tyne/Sydney Harbour bridges. 😇
Sadly; I came here from another video that had been uploaded a day before this comment. In that, the presenter said the third crossing had been cancelled... 🙁
Anglesey and North Wales need something of this magnitude to put us firmly on the tourism map this project as put in the film seems to tick so many boxes. Why not also tie in the proposed pylons that the national grid seem bent on putting across the island. They could tie into the story instead of putting up conventional pylons have a design like they have in other countries of walking men/women Looking like some of the characters mentioned in the film, dynywen, etc . Let’s think big !
@Irish Viking I don’t disagree with you we need to boost the economy in this area with full time better paid jobs and not rely on the jobs currently supporting the local economy in the service industry but this is just not happening in fact the opposite . Companies are closing companies that have been here for many years. This project would put the area on the map show how innovative we can be in the area and could act as a catalyst for industries to want to invest in the area. The university could be training students for potential employers instead of students seeking employment elsewhere is the country. It’s not a case of either or but a combined effort to increase the opportunities available in the area.
Make it so!
Da iawn gobyithio de 👍🏴
A fantastic and beautiful idea for a third bridge, but sadly as or Welsh Labour government have suspended all road building for the forseeable future, a third crossing now seems unachievable
If I recall correctly the options for a new 4-lane bridge in the consultation documents also appear to retain the current A55 bridge deck above the railway, meaning there would be 6 A55 lanes across the Menai. Given that the rest of the A55 is 4-lane, 6 lanes (8 if you also count the suspension bridge) across the Menai is far more than necessary. So, where's the option to build a new 4-lane bridge (with pavements for pedestrains and cyclists), demolish the current A55 bridge deck and restore double track on the railway? That would help make the lions visible again and allow improvements to the rail service (the A55 bridge deck above the railway might also be a barrier to future electrification of the railway).
The government is supposed to be encouraging modal shift towards public transport; you don't do that by increasing a 2-lane road to a 6-lane one, you do it by improving public transport.
Rhydgaled If they do that it would be more expensive
Syniad ardderchog!
Tunnel!
Interesting but your initial introduction is incorrect. The Menai Strait is singular! It is not the Menai Straits!
Even though you're right, most local people do call it the Menai Straits, so he's perfectly ok to call it that in my view.
Am syniad hollol wych!!!
Yes, deff. good idea BUT, like the colossal cost of that hair brain HS 2 railway , it will never happen now.
I have to say that I really don't like this design at all, there are much more ways of making a bridge elegant, include cultural elements and make it more modern using engineering advancements. Both Menai and Britannia were huge feats of engineering in their times and this just feels unimaginative in comparison.
Also you can't say that cable stayed bridges are "excitable from the wind" and then use a clip from Tacoma Narrows, that was nearly 80 years ago and now Engineers know much more about how wind frequencies can affect large structures.
No need for 3rd bridge, traffic jams are caused by people slowing down to 30mph as soon as they get to the bridge.keep to 50mph.
Terence Wyn Roberts that’s because that’s the speed limit, and that speed limit is there because of the 4 lanes plus 2 on ramps going into 2 lanes
@@Aron-ru5zk The speed limit on the bridge is 50mph ,obviously you have not driven over it .Maybe therefore you are one of the ones that cause the problem .I arrest my case!
@@Aron-ru5zk Reading your post again ,you have no clue about the bridge,quote "4 lanes plus on 2 ramps going into 2 lanes" please explain 2 ramps! There is one road merging from each side of the bridge onto the road over .Dallt?
Terence Wyn Roberts the on/ off ramps coming off the 2 roundabouts on the Bangor side come up onto a dual carriageway and then merge into a single carriageway, I was counting the lanes going both ways
@@Aron-ru5zk There is only one lane merging onto either side of the bridge,it doesn't matter if there was 24 roundabouts either side they all merge into one slip road. The problem is that idiots reduce their speed to under 50 mph over the bridge . I have crossed that bridge on my motorcycle and car since it was opened and always people reduce their speed .The speed limit is 50 mph unless strong winds .No need for 3rd bridge .People who think that the speed limit is 30mph need throwing off the bridge.
Awful ugly idea. Why impose the arrogance of man on such a beautiful landscape? Worst idea I've seen in years. Wouldn't even be needed if it weren't for Wylfa B. It makes me physically sick think I'd have to drive past this twice a day.
Man created bridges, not women.