I remember reading about Thetis when I was around ten years old, it stuck with me for many years. The thought of slowly choking to death in the dark at the bottom of the sea, surrounded by scared, dying people - I had nightmares about it for a long time. Such a heartless, hopeless tragedy.
Same here. I read 'The Admiralty Regrets...' but many decades later read the story of how the worls-wide fund set up was diverted to navy personnel only and vicious administrators denied aid and care to the bereaved civilian families of the onboard shipyard technicians. It has haunted most of my 75 years yet I was born nine years after the event. My father, a signaller knew about it anyway.
There is a true account of the U-Boats written by an actual, surviving Commander. It's titled "Iron Coffins". Give it a read if you haven't yet. It will certainly keep you awake.
@@CBe-ot8vu A 10 year old child may be scared of things. Where have you left your empathy? Or is that your whistling in the dark because you have your own fears and know you'd be scared by these things too?
Look up the Winterberg tunnel on the Chemin des Dames battlefront, near Reims. On the 4th of May 1917, this 300m long supply tunnel to the German front lines was attacked with artillery --- the French using an observation balloon to see the rear entrance too, and both tunnel ends were hit and closed off --- ammunition at the rear end was hit and went off, not helping things. Over the next 6 days (or possibly more), the 270+ soldiers inside died, by lack of water, lack of oxygen, suicide, assisted suicide. 3 could be dug out by German troops; but with the French pushing the attack, the Germans had to retreat the next day. The French had no time for digging, nor had the Germans when they some time later retook the ridge. Oh, and did I mention the over 400 bodies found in a tunnel at Mont Cornillet east of Reims, found (again) in 1973? Or the 34 who were entombed on the 18th of March 1918 in a shelter of a tunnel system near Carspach in the Alsace region? Aerial mines collapsed parts of the 500 man sized tunnel system 5.5m below the surface. At the time 13 bodies could be recovered, but 21 had to be left there as it was too dangerous. (And yes, the name of everyone there is known.) Rediscovered in 2012 as a road building project needed excavations, the place is very well preserved: no light, little air, little water ... Newspaper parts still perfectly readable. The list goes on and on ... and as an infantry man, you do not sign up to be immured like a submariner would.
Yep. Had the painters in a few years ago, idiot, lazy tradie decides to paint over the manhole to the ceiling cavity, so it was effectively glued shut. We had to get my dad (who's taller than me, I'm his daughter) to balance on a ladder with a stanley knife to try and un-seal the bloody paint work, it's still an issue. Wish I could of rung that tradie out to dry, would of taken him 5 minutes to remove the cover and paint it separately but nope. Lazy people doing lazy work, not thinking or bothering with how their actions affect others. Typical.
The full story was banned in the UK in 1939, but not in Germany, where a book titled "SOS Thetis" was published about it. After the war the British occupation regime ordered the destruction of all copies of that book.
@@bobfranke2347Something about the British being sore winners, and you know prior history of their ancestors and ruling religions burning books and records that they saw as "blasphemy" to their shallow egos.
Such is the trouble with Queen Elizabeth II's absurdly long reign. Britain reached a steady state with her as Queen, where she'd been queen forever and seemed to be fine continuing as queen basically forever. And then she didn't.
No one’s at fault, because there was no prior outcome like this, therefore it couldn’t be predicted… Are you freaking kidding me. Great way to deflect blame and take no responsibility. If I lived at that time and served, I would quit. I truly don’t respect those who can not accept accountability for their mistakes.
@@nathanworthington4451that’s not really how “I’m regards to” works. Should probably make your case as to why he’s naive for stating a rather obvious and objectively correct point
@@CodyTeichert26 Exactly. It's so obvious as to why those decisions were made. Politics, bureaucracy, military, are you both so naive you dont understand how the world works? All that combined with technical limitations at the time, looming war, and the unprecedented nature of the event it would be highly unlikely any other course of action would've been taken. Do you understand? Or is there anything else you need me to explain to you?
knowing it was something so simple that's so easy to fix? yeah I mean I think if you're choosing to get on submarines in the first place you have a pretty high threshold for... everything, so that's kind of like a tangible problem that can be avoided. if you have that same type of fear, then it should apply to the type of passenger jet that crashed into the ground at like 900 mph because of its autopilot in Ethiopia. Like all autopilot should be called into question, if we use the same logic.
@@Velereonics there was nothing to rebuild of planes that went down thanks to Boeing's designs. So no one flew on rebuilt lion air or ethiopia air airframes. And Boeing planes were grounded until they fixed the plane. you act as though sailors don't have superstitions about sailing on ships that are known for producing fatalities...
@@noconsent Indeed, but I wonder how many of those submariners would have even been told about the Thunderbolt's previous name and history before their assignment, heh.
"when the helm is turned to starboard the ship turns to port" good to know that Oceangate hasn't learnt about checking that you havent installed your controls backwards despite another 80 years between the Titan and the Thetis... hubris is a funny ol thing
Crazy that the guys could have been saved by an air pipe, but the British Navy decided they'd rather let the sailors die than disrupt the structural integrity of the ship. Those people should have been sent to prison.
For some reason the tail end was cut off. These are the last sentences. "Thetis is salvaged and made ready for active service. It’s renamed Thunderbolt and dispatched during World War II. On the 14th of March 1943, Italian Corvette Cicogna fires on and sinks Thunderbolt. Today it lies somewhere on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, at a depth of almost 1400 meters. The remains of her second crew are still on board." Thanks for watching. If you enjoyed this video and would like to watch more videos from this channel without any ads, consider joining our Patreon. The link is in the description. You can join for free or select a membership with benefits ranging from ad free videos through to early access and live q and a calls. I look forward to meeting you there. www.patreon.com/WaterlineStories
My lord, this is absolutely horrifying. Those poor men deserved better! Their families could have at least been compensated. Despicable and cowardly how they were sacrificed.
The government and people always say thank you for your service but it’s just lip service. Most people don’t care about freedom or appreciate it even though America isn’t a free country I hope one day it will be. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED was not a suggestion.
Yeah, that's what pawns are for. It's called war. Spoiler: soldiers & sailors are all expendable. The military industrial complex doesn't care about your life or feelings.
The accident changed the design of safety valves on torpedo tubes. These days, to manually confirm a tube is not flooded, which needs to be done in case the electrical indicator is faulty the valve is opened and a 8 inch steel rod pushed into it to ensure that the hole isnt blocked with debris or anything else..once confirmed the tube is dry it can be opened. It was the Thetis accident that changed the design from a faucet style valve to a straight hole allowing the rod to be inserted to break any blockages which might give the impression the tube is dry
They had a straight hole on Thetis, but inserting the tool to check it was clear was done as part of routine housekeeping, not every time they opened the door. (Evidence by the torpedo officer later) Was probably felt unnecessary on first cruise.
It's an old story. Most men in the service know this. Many men died saving many ships. When the Yorktown was hit men were knowingly sent to their deaths fighting the fires.
At least Yorktown was in combat in a time when we were short on carriers compared to our enemy, this was peacetime, and subs are replaceable, not that im lessening the value of thier lives, but the circumstances were somewhat different and the value of the Yorktown wasnt mearly a dollar value which is my point
What happened to the USS Indianapolis and several other ships (that I’m aware of) was horrific. 900 men survived the sinking only to die when their SOS messages were ignored. It took 4 days for the Navy to realize they were missing and by that time, around 600 men died. It’s alarming how common this was during WWII and this incompetence wasn’t just limited to the Navy. But poor Captain McVay was blamed and he never forgave himself- he committed suicide before he was officially cleared of wrongdoing. Although this occurred at peacetime, the USS Iowa turret explosion was also infuriating. The navy just threw their own under the bust in an attempt to shirk responsibility while attempting to blame and slander innocent service people despite knowing the true cause of the explosion. These people tried to serve their country and were treated like garbage by the military. They treat people like they’re expendable.
"And the generals gave thanks As the other ranks held back the enemy tanks for a while And the Anzio bridgehead was held for the price Of a few hundred ordinary lives..." ~When The Tigers Broke Free
Great video as always! One quick thing, not sure if you can change it but the end of the video is cut off. It ends on "...fires on and sinks Thun-". Hope that makes sense!
A surprising amount of historical subs. Like a shocking amount. Especially in the United States submarine force. It's not so much of a common practice now a-days.
That mention of enamel paint jamming up essential equipment triggered my memory of a similar but much less serious occasion. Our church was being refitted with up to date smoke detectors, alarms, backup lighting, and fire break walls, etc. It was all volunteer work and I took part. Within a week of completion, my father told me that another congregation member who happened to be employed during the day with the provincial utility company, found that when some circuits went dead, he had a hell of a time sorting the puzzle because all of the circuit breaker switches were indicating ON. He pulled out the panel and found red enamel paint was jamming all the breakers of the fire system and a few others too. We had another member well known for painting anything that didn't move, even over threaded speaker wire terminals when he was painting the walls the speakers were mounted on, and he'd painted the outside of every breaker switch that was part of our new fire alarm system with red enamel to distinguish them. The paint had seeped in to the back so breakers were tripped but the outside bakelite 'flipper switches' didn't move, just the inside metal contacts. Possibly some contacts were enamelled in the closed contact ON position too.
My father was the Regulating Coxsun of HM/s Trident and Tabard when they came out to Australia. Between 1952 till 1958. He had been an AB on HM/s Oswald. Thus sub had been rammed and sunk by an Italian destroyer. This happened in 1940. He remained a POW until 1944 when he escapes.
For various reasons, a submarine is always referred to as a boat. The "S" in HMS when used for such vessels is for "submarine", not "ship". An interesting and troubling story. And well told.
Also he said "Her Majesty's", whereas in 1936, when it was commissioned, King Edward VIII was the monarch (succeeded by George VI later that year after he abdicated).
"Blocked with paint" sounds like you just went out of your way as hard as possible to reword "painted shut" in a different way, to try and sound smarter.
That story came to an abrupt stop. If an editor pushed that out like that, then I would be finding a new one. Outside of that - Great channel though! I am a fan.
By far the best chanel on TH-cam. I really appreciate the level of detail and way in which you explain these amazing (and tragic) stories. Keep up the awesome work!!! Thank you.
Didn't help that one of the senior naval officers decided to take a train from Scotland to Liverpool instead of flying , took him way to long to get to the accident site.
First time on this channel, but have noted about 8 considerate remarks re. the chopped ending w/ no comment or edited correction by this channel. My (only?) conclusion is that a bit of British arrogance perpetuates. WHY not just fix it?
Here's a question. Why not tow it to shore, ASAP after spotting the tail out of water? I'ld rather swim up thru 30 ft of water next to the shore, then 100 feet in the open ocean.
Men can be rebuilt WAY easier than a submarine lmfao. What a dumb quote. It takes 3 minutes and a single orgasm. Humans are easily replaceable lmfao. We breed like rabbits
I just discovered this channel and watched a few. Great format, all the proper context and the story telling flows without getting boring. Definitely subscribed
Alistair MacLean probably took inspiration from the incident with the torpedo tube for his novel "Ice station Zebra", though in the book it was a Soviet saboteur, not a careless painter, who had blocked the stop cock and disconnected the mechanism of the torpedo tube front door. The description of the incident in the book was remarkably similar, even saying there were a few drops of water coming from the cock.
Thanks for another great learning experience! I like your honest way of pointing out "actual footage" as opposed to presenters that stuff non sensical footage that just confuses the story when the pictures don't relate. I also like the way you point out the hypocrisy of the situation. Groete, beste, Totsiens.
Why were there photos of USN personnel then? And at one point what looked like an Oberon class submarine which were post WW II subs? Also the ‘Control Room’ footage looked like 70’s technology. At 5:50 we see what looks like a Soviet Nuclear Submarine. So much for actual footage.
Great work as usual, but I think something might've happened when uploading this video to TH-cam as the ending is cut off which I KNOW is not normal for your quality of videos/editing/storytelling! So might be worth looking at re-uploading... Or wait until peak posting views have been achieved then re-upload the full video 🤫😆 I'll gladly watch twice 😉👍
Everyone, please remember. At this point, the science of submaritime rescue had just barely been invented. While the Thetis was undergoing her trials, the US Navy was still recovering the USS Squalus. For some reason, onevof her induction valves opened as she was diving. Twenty-six men died as a result. But every man who survived the intial disaster was rescued. This is almost exclusively due to one man: Swede Momsen, for all intents and purposes the inventor of this science. The diving chamber, the locking collars, and the escape hatch were all completely or primarily his inventions. The macabre idea of recovering a sub once it's crew was dead was not new. Until escape hatches, docking collars, and rescue chambers were invented, there was literally nothing else that could be done, most of the time. He tested the escape hatch in a sub at 110 feet. Several months earlier, an entire crew died in that same sub at that same depth.
I read a book about this when I was a kid 60 years or so ago when I lived in Manchester, it claimed that the cause of the sinking was that all the Torpedo tubes had gauges on them to tell if the outer door was open or closed, the problem was that when fitting the gauges there was a pipe or something in the way so the gauge was installed upside down so when all gauges were reading 12 O'clock to say the the doors were closed in fact all doors but 1 were closed and the other one was open which caused the flooding when the inner door was opened causing the flooding and sinking, how true this is I really don't know though???????
Always boggles my mind not only that they'd have passengers, but that they would even have a full crew versus only one watch on board, and that they wouldn't have things like air hoses etc already hooked up by default before they started (assuming there's a valve on the trunk built for that as implied in the video), or towing vessel and divers on hand, blah blah
The "Thetis" incident is complecated and yes mistakes were made. But to a certain extent the board of enquiry was correct, nothing like those circumstances had ever happend before, however blame could have been attached to: Allowing too many "guests" from the Dockyard on board during these triails; The lack of awarness of the escort tug as to testing procedures and what to do if they though something had gone wrong; The signals sent to Portsbouth during the accident could have been given more priority by the Navy; The " emergency" equipment easily available was obtained was faulty due to lack of maintenance; The lack of care taken to ensure that the tubes safety test features were operating correctly such that the stopcock on tube 5 was outside its operational perimeters; Then add to the above that the crew were unable to easilly read the indicators showing that the outer doors were open on tube 5, which was obscured behind a horizontal bar and that non of these indicatiors had a standard "orientation" which made it easire to check. ....Its a chain of errors from lack of familiarity for the new crew on a new submarine of a new class which had not previously been made in that dockyard. Its a prome example of Murphy's law in action. Now you criticised the RN over not cutting a vent in the rear of the submarine to pipe air in and there were very reasonable engineering reasons as to why that did not happen. Foremost being by the time they were in a position to undertake that task ( having all the tools engineers etc that were needed) the turning of the tide creating strong currents which dragged the submarine under...... Had the initial signal sent been treated with more priority ( so not having a two+ hour delay) maybe they could have saved some people and the salvage ship Vigilant did have that equipment on board to do just the operation you suggest... So to defend the RN it was not a decision taken not to save the boat, and alow the crew to perish, and had they knowledge on how to do it..., due to so many of the K class acting like "lawn darts" and burying their bows into the seabed because they were a terrible design which made diving the boat a lottery! If you want further reading Paul Kemp's book "the T class submarine - the classivpc British design" covers the incident in chaprer 8
QUESTION #1: Why did the Royal Navy REFUSE help from the salvage vessel when this help was first offered? PROBABLE ANSWER: Pride and hubris - for the great Royal Navy to have to ADMIT that it needed help is more than their pride could accept. QUESTION #2: Why did the Royal Navy REFUSE to allow the salvage vessel to drill a hole in the ship in order to save all those lives? PROBABLE ANSWER: Because for the military, lives are expendable, lives are CHEAP and submarines are EXPENSIVE. QUESTION #3: Why was the Royal Navy allowed to be judge and jury in this investigation? PROBABLE ANSWER: An INDEPENDENT inquiry would have found the Navy at fault and would have forced the Navy to pay compensation to the families of the victims.
Its crazy to think that very few of them had the actual balls to crawl through that escape hatch. If they all simply followed the captain, or atleast if the crew and everybody with a survival suit did, the air wouldve lasted the passengers long enough. If the navy had just been ok with patching a small hole in the hull it couldve been pressurized again and refloated with the passengers inside. They truly did sacrifice them for a tiny hole!
After the first two pairs got out it was decided to send them in 4s, two submariners and two Cammell Laird men in each batch. This was disastrous as they were tightly jammed in and led to the panic described, where they drowned. However a bigger issue was the control of the outer hatch. Once the outer hatch was opened and the men swam out the hatch could be closed from inside the sub but the wheel used to do that must them be returned to the start of it's travel so that control returns to the wheel inside the hatch. Somebody didn't do that after the last pair got out, only turned it one turn. (may not have known they needed to). The result was the next men in could only open the hatch a few inches, see daylight above, but not get out. They didn't know what was wrong, only that it was jammed. So nobody could use it.
Thanks for the video on the Thetis disaster, you mentioned HMS Dolphin (I used to live near there and worked at the Royal Navy research establishment which was next door to Dolphin) which had a feature of the Gosport skyline which is the 100 foot (30 metre) submarine escape practice tower which i'm curious to know if it's design and building was influenced by this accident or is it just coincidence it's height is very similar to the depth Thetis sank too.
The SETT was built in response to Submarine accidents, being stated in 1949. It's probably safe to assume that Thetis featured in the thinking, but there were two other escape trainers before SETT at 15 and 30 feet.
As I understand it nobody tried to use the forward escape compartment on Thetis, not thinking they could escape from that depth. The tower was a response to that, so I have read.
Great video,such a loss of life.I do family history and a distant cousin on my mothers side,Joseph Charles Hughes was a Petty Officer cook on board,sadly died.
The story was just too sad so he probably had to go down to the pub to numb himself. God knows l would if l had all their Pstreons and sponsorship and what not. And l would invite all his faithful viewers to also go down to the pub, or maybe mail them some whiskey. Anyone from the WLS team reading this? Hello? Please.
This appears to have ended a bit too soon? Fires on and Sinks? Or my YT is screwed. I love discovering new channels though. "subbed". I like you're style.
US Navy sub S4 sank off Provincetown Massachusetts. The local fishing fleet arrived to raise it, they raised sunken vessels all the time, there was tapping from the sub, some were alive. The Navy shooed them off while waiting for a crane barge to come from Boston, delayed by bad bad weather. All perished. And yes they did raise it and used it for an in harbor training vessel. There is memorial in town and a vigil service every year.
Liverpool Bay, not Irish Sea. Liverpool sAlderman also lost aboard. Twas a recovered, was later found washed up in sea sludge mud then dragged out, emptied and refloated as Tbolt.
That is a very unfortunate headline. Without a doubt this was a case of numerous errors when met at the same day. Starting with the design sub, like installing features backwards so that the controls for the ballast were backwards, the forward dive plane being made so that the locking mechanism would not work to release it (in my understanding of the situation, the navy should have never let this boat go out on even a brief trial until the entire design was reworked), of the watertight doors, painting the torpedo door seals with enamel paint, of not allowing anyone other than the strictly necessary crewmen take the boat out (yes, the subs were still called boats, if you look at the old designation you will find for example K Boats, and beyond), out for the first trial run, and moving to other people, not training enough people on how to use escape suits and escape hatches, the tug not dropping anchor until it was sure that the sub was okay and then not waiting around, regardless of the situation unless they had received an all clear type notice, and then more. Not one person's fault and if it had not been for so many things to have happened at once, quite possibly all these problems with the sub itself, these might have been discovered and fixed. In a way, this is like when America's first supersonic bomber was making its initial flight being filmed by Air Force chase planes, one got close enough so that the vortex wind disturbance generated by the vertical stabilizer caused him to do a roll which caused the jet to hit the vertical stabilizer, and both planes crashed. I do not remember so I speculate that this was still before we knew all of the causes of vortexes. The chase plane was filming and was possibly getting as close as possible to film something the pilot noticed and thought was noteworthy enough to get as close as possible to so so. There used to be a show about disasters and what caused them and in every one of the disasters, numerous things, some very small, all met together at the same time.
It’s called the Swiss cheese theory. When you layer enough holes on top of each other, sooner or later, you’re going to create a gigantic hole that is catastrophic.
Just a slight error Captain! H.M.S. in 1936 stood for "His Majesty's Ship" as the UK at that time was ruled by a King! Either King Edward VIII or King George VI! Sorry for the small correction sir! Loving your content
I dunno why but everytime i watch a video for some reason for brief moment you look like you laying on leather bed while telling the story. Love content😂
I remember reading about Thetis when I was around ten years old, it stuck with me for many years. The thought of slowly choking to death in the dark at the bottom of the sea, surrounded by scared, dying people - I had nightmares about it for a long time. Such a heartless, hopeless tragedy.
Same here. I read 'The Admiralty Regrets...' but many decades later read the story of how the worls-wide fund set up was diverted to navy personnel only and vicious administrators denied aid and care to the bereaved civilian families of the onboard shipyard technicians. It has haunted most of my 75 years yet I was born nine years after the event. My father, a signaller knew about it anyway.
There is a true account of the U-Boats written by an actual, surviving Commander. It's titled "Iron Coffins". Give it a read if you haven't yet. It will certainly keep you awake.
Nightmares? Your kidding right? You must be scared of everything
@@CBe-ot8vu A 10 year old child may be scared of things. Where have you left your empathy? Or is that your whistling in the dark because you have your own fears and know you'd be scared by these things too?
Look up the Winterberg tunnel on the Chemin des Dames battlefront, near Reims. On the 4th of May 1917, this 300m long supply tunnel to the German front lines was attacked with artillery --- the French using an observation balloon to see the rear entrance too, and both tunnel ends were hit and closed off --- ammunition at the rear end was hit and went off, not helping things. Over the next 6 days (or possibly more), the 270+ soldiers inside died, by lack of water, lack of oxygen, suicide, assisted suicide. 3 could be dug out by German troops; but with the French pushing the attack, the Germans had to retreat the next day.
The French had no time for digging, nor had the Germans when they some time later retook the ridge.
Oh, and did I mention the over 400 bodies found in a tunnel at Mont Cornillet east of Reims, found (again) in 1973?
Or the 34 who were entombed on the 18th of March 1918 in a shelter of a tunnel system near Carspach in the Alsace region? Aerial mines collapsed parts of the 500 man sized tunnel system 5.5m below the surface. At the time 13 bodies could be recovered, but 21 had to be left there as it was too dangerous. (And yes, the name of everyone there is known.) Rediscovered in 2012 as a road building project needed excavations, the place is very well preserved: no light, little air, little water ... Newspaper parts still perfectly readable.
The list goes on and on ... and as an infantry man, you do not sign up to be immured like a submariner would.
"Never paint doors, windows, and torpedo hatches whilst shut"
-a wise man
Yep. Had the painters in a few years ago, idiot, lazy tradie decides to paint over the manhole to the ceiling cavity, so it was effectively glued shut. We had to get my dad (who's taller than me, I'm his daughter) to balance on a ladder with a stanley knife to try and un-seal the bloody paint work, it's still an issue. Wish I could of rung that tradie out to dry, would of taken him 5 minutes to remove the cover and paint it separately but nope. Lazy people doing lazy work, not thinking or bothering with how their actions affect others. Typical.
Talk about a bad day/ cluster *uck
Why they didn't test all those valves and doors beforehand is plain negligence.
Never paint what’s meant to be a water tight door/hatch while open
-a wise man who didn’t die because a seal that couldn’t form
"Never shsa s auuuuuuuu uuuuuueeuualls'
- Ryan 'John' Submarine
The full story was banned in the UK in 1939, but not in Germany, where a book titled "SOS Thetis" was published about it. After the war the British occupation regime ordered the destruction of all copies of that book.
"Burning" books is a universal habit :D
Thank fully the brtish could not destroy all of them.
...something about the victors writing the history, right?
@@bobfranke2347Something about the British being sore winners, and you know prior history of their ancestors and ruling religions burning books and records that they saw as "blasphemy" to their shallow egos.
Typical covering the tracks of their imbecility & incompetence...
One small correction, It's "HIS Majesty's Ship" since Britain had a king at the time, king George VI.
Oh geez. I didn’t even think of that. Thanks for the correction
I was wondering that and paused to read the comment.
Great info!! I had no idea...
Such is the trouble with Queen Elizabeth II's absurdly long reign. Britain reached a steady state with her as Queen, where she'd been queen forever and seemed to be fine continuing as queen basically forever.
And then she didn't.
@@Skorpychan So exactly like the previous queen then? Who reigned for so long that the Victorian era seemed to never end.
No one’s at fault, because there was no prior outcome like this, therefore it couldn’t be predicted… Are you freaking kidding me. Great way to deflect blame and take no responsibility. If I lived at that time and served, I would quit. I truly don’t respect those who can not accept accountability for their mistakes.
You're naive
@@nathanworthington4451 Naive, in regards to what?
@@memphis6694 In regards to the comment you recently made in this videos comment section
@@nathanworthington4451that’s not really how “I’m regards to” works. Should probably make your case as to why he’s naive for stating a rather obvious and objectively correct point
@@CodyTeichert26 Exactly. It's so obvious as to why those decisions were made. Politics, bureaucracy, military, are you both so naive you dont understand how the world works? All that combined with technical limitations at the time, looming war, and the unprecedented nature of the event it would be highly unlikely any other course of action would've been taken. Do you understand? Or is there anything else you need me to explain to you?
Like they say, safety regulations are written in blood.
"the torpedo doors were painted shut" Did they hire my landlord to paint this?
DEI hires probably
Unqualified people know their stuff.😵💫
Image getting assigned to Thunderbold knowing it was a deathtrap of 99 people.
knowing it was something so simple that's so easy to fix? yeah I mean I think if you're choosing to get on submarines in the first place you have a pretty high threshold for... everything, so that's kind of like a tangible problem that can be avoided.
if you have that same type of fear, then it should apply to the type of passenger jet that crashed into the ground at like 900 mph because of its autopilot in Ethiopia. Like all autopilot should be called into question, if we use the same logic.
@@Velereonics there was nothing to rebuild of planes that went down thanks to Boeing's designs. So no one flew on rebuilt lion air or ethiopia air airframes. And Boeing planes were grounded until they fixed the plane.
you act as though sailors don't have superstitions about sailing on ships that are known for producing fatalities...
Wonder if it was haunted....yes I know but there are plenty reports of ships being haunted by people who had nothing to gain.
@@noconsent Indeed, but I wonder how many of those submariners would have even been told about the Thunderbolt's previous name and history before their assignment, heh.
@@Schwarzvogel1 Very hard to find any information on the sailors that went down with the Thunderbolt. Maybe yes, maybe no.
I can remember my mother telling me she went and saw the sub when it was beached at Traeth Bychan as she lived just down the road at Malltraeth.
You should have said, “Pictures of you at the Beach with the Sub, or it’s not True Mom” 😅😂🤣 lol JK. That’s actually an awesome story your mother has.
@@memphis6694 lmaybe I mean she would have been 8 so photos might not have been an option lol 😂
"when the helm is turned to starboard the ship turns to port"
good to know that Oceangate hasn't learnt about checking that you havent installed your controls backwards despite another 80 years between the Titan and the Thetis... hubris is a funny ol thing
Each time something happens that hampers the rescue I grab my heart and think "Oh $hit". Yet another great story from my favorite story teller. ❤❤❤❤
Your "Actual photo" of U20 is in fact a photograph of U9 from the Wikipedia page. You can sort of tell this by the U9 painted on the bow...
0:21
wank wank
You took every opportunity to say thr name of that tug and i appreciate that.
😂😂😂😂 ur killing me !
Thanks for telling this tragic and unusual story. Appreciate the informative content & quality narration. Such a tragic loss of life though.
the video ended mid sentence for me "an italian ship fires on and sinks thunderb..."
Crazy that the guys could have been saved by an air pipe, but the British Navy decided they'd rather let the sailors die than disrupt the structural integrity of the ship. Those people should have been sent to prison.
Agreed
'Collateral damage'. Yeah, murder.
It's called war, snowflake. What did you think the pawns were for? Sailors are cheaper than submarines.
I was thinking about this but could it be argued that the vessel is more important?
@@alexxsafhow? It's a fucking object. Those are people.
For some reason the tail end was cut off. These are the last sentences.
"Thetis is salvaged and made ready for active service.
It’s renamed Thunderbolt and dispatched during World War II.
On the 14th of March 1943, Italian Corvette Cicogna fires on and sinks Thunderbolt.
Today it lies somewhere on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, at a depth of almost 1400 meters.
The remains of her second crew are still on board."
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Great mini-documentary as usual.
Thanks for writing the parts we missed. It ended mid sentence and i was so confused lol amazing video tho
"Still on patrol" three haunting words
Hauntingly familiar
F
My lord, this is absolutely horrifying. Those poor men deserved better! Their families could have at least been compensated. Despicable and cowardly how they were sacrificed.
The government and people always say thank you for your service but it’s just lip service. Most people don’t care about freedom or appreciate it even though America isn’t a free country I hope one day it will be. SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED was not a suggestion.
All for a hunk of metal😭
Yeah, that's what pawns are for. It's called war. Spoiler: soldiers & sailors are all expendable. The military industrial complex doesn't care about your life or feelings.
My Uncle George Mollen was an apprentice and missed out on selection for the sea trial. He lived until his seventies.
The accident changed the design of safety valves on torpedo tubes. These days, to manually confirm a tube is not flooded, which needs to be done in case the electrical indicator is faulty the valve is opened and a 8 inch steel rod pushed into it to ensure that the hole isnt blocked with debris or anything else..once confirmed the tube is dry it can be opened.
It was the Thetis accident that changed the design from a faucet style valve to a straight hole allowing the rod to be inserted to break any blockages which might give the impression the tube is dry
we don't just have cameras by now...? I mean sure, have that as well, but doesn't seem like a reasonable FIRST line of investigation in 2024.
They had a straight hole on Thetis, but inserting the tool to check it was clear was done as part of routine housekeeping, not every time they opened the door. (Evidence by the torpedo officer later) Was probably felt unnecessary on first cruise.
It's an old story. Most men in the service know this. Many men died saving many ships. When the Yorktown was hit men were knowingly sent to their deaths fighting the fires.
At least Yorktown was in combat in a time when we were short on carriers compared to our enemy, this was peacetime, and subs are replaceable, not that im lessening the value of thier lives, but the circumstances were somewhat different and the value of the Yorktown wasnt mearly a dollar value which is my point
Big difference between combat a peacetime. In combat, this can be expected. In peacetime you do your damndest to save lives.
@@patrickreilly4639Agree
What happened to the USS Indianapolis and several other ships (that I’m aware of) was horrific. 900 men survived the sinking only to die when their SOS messages were ignored. It took 4 days for the Navy to realize they were missing and by that time, around 600 men died. It’s alarming how common this was during WWII and this incompetence wasn’t just limited to the Navy. But poor Captain McVay was blamed and he never forgave himself- he committed suicide before he was officially cleared of wrongdoing.
Although this occurred at peacetime, the USS Iowa turret explosion was also infuriating. The navy just threw their own under the bust in an attempt to shirk responsibility while attempting to blame and slander innocent service people despite knowing the true cause of the explosion. These people tried to serve their country and were treated like garbage by the military. They treat people like they’re expendable.
@@ripwednesdayadams That's the navy for you. For every accident there's always a scapegoat. Just so long as the navy isn't held responsible. 🤷♂
"And the generals gave thanks
As the other ranks held back the enemy tanks for a while
And the Anzio bridgehead was held for the price
Of a few hundred ordinary lives..."
~When The Tigers Broke Free
Great video as always! One quick thing, not sure if you can change it but the end of the video is cut off. It ends on "...fires on and sinks Thun-".
Hope that makes sense!
Yeah, I don’t know why it got cut off. I’ll have to try and fix it. I can’t ad in but I might be able to cut it off at a more appropriate place.
So it sank twice....
My hometown shipyard Cammell Lairds and this tragedy has cast a long shadow down the years! #OurHistory
Hey Dave :)
@@HiddenHistoryYT hallo mate, fancy meeting you here, all the best people, all the best places. 👍
Why
I wonder how many subs have 3 crews worth of bodies accounted to them like this one?
A surprising amount of historical subs. Like a shocking amount. Especially in the United States submarine force. It's not so much of a common practice now a-days.
That mention of enamel paint jamming up essential equipment triggered my memory of a similar but much less serious occasion. Our church was being refitted with up to date smoke detectors, alarms, backup lighting, and fire break walls, etc. It was all volunteer work and I took part. Within a week of completion, my father told me that another congregation member who happened to be employed during the day with the provincial utility company, found that when some circuits went dead, he had a hell of a time sorting the puzzle because all of the circuit breaker switches were indicating ON. He pulled out the panel and found red enamel paint was jamming all the breakers of the fire system and a few others too.
We had another member well known for painting anything that didn't move, even over threaded speaker wire terminals when he was painting the walls the speakers were mounted on, and he'd painted the outside of every breaker switch that was part of our new fire alarm system with red enamel to distinguish them. The paint had seeped in to the back so breakers were tripped but the outside bakelite 'flipper switches' didn't move, just the inside metal contacts. Possibly some contacts were enamelled in the closed contact ON position too.
What a disgraceful reaction by the UK navy. Almost at every turn the response was negligent. I cannot believe families were not compensated.
My father was the Regulating Coxsun of HM/s Trident and Tabard when they came out to Australia. Between 1952 till 1958. He had been an AB on HM/s Oswald. Thus sub had been rammed and sunk by an Italian destroyer. This happened in 1940. He remained a POW until 1944 when he escapes.
For various reasons, a submarine is always referred to as a boat.
The "S" in HMS when used for such vessels is for "submarine", not "ship".
An interesting and troubling story. And well told.
No. Correctly it is 'ship', but colloquially it is 'Submarine'.
So is the new HMS Dreadnought His Majesty's Ship or His Majesty's Submarine?
@@Edax_Royeaux submarine.
Also he said "Her Majesty's", whereas in 1936, when it was commissioned, King Edward VIII was the monarch (succeeded by George VI later that year after he abdicated).
I think you will find that the tube door was not painted shut but that the test cock was blocked with bitumen paint .
Yeah i questioned that whole pivotal scenario to the catastrophic flooding.....how it actually happened 🤔
You said cock. Hee hee haw haw. Cock.
"Blocked with paint" sounds like you just went out of your way as hard as possible to reword "painted shut" in a different way, to try and sound smarter.
@@gavinjenkins899 I refer to the test cock not the door
@@gavinjenkins899 I was referring to the test cock NOT the door - a very different situation
That story came to an abrupt stop. If an editor pushed that out like that, then I would be finding a new one. Outside of that - Great channel though! I am a fan.
By far the best chanel on TH-cam. I really appreciate the level of detail and way in which you explain these amazing (and tragic) stories. Keep up the awesome work!!! Thank you.
Didn't help that one of the senior naval officers decided to take a train from Scotland to Liverpool instead of flying , took him way to long to get to the accident site.
flying in the year???
At that time of the century, probably about 5 people in Scotland knew about planes.
I could listen to this narrator all day...a great plus to these very interesting videos!!! Subscribed!
Your videos are great. Very well done. Lot's of relevant footage and the room you are in looks great too!
Why is there a sudden cut at the end?
Is there a part of video missing?
Puts me in mind of the Kursk. A Navy doesn’t like to be caught helpless.
Great video, but it ended mid-sentence!
I really don’t see
Exactly that, the video ends before he finishes describing how the sub is sunk by enemy action.
First time on this channel, but have noted about 8 considerate remarks re. the chopped ending w/ no comment or edited correction by this channel. My (only?) conclusion is that a bit of British arrogance perpetuates. WHY not just fix it?
Yet another amazing documentary
Here's a question.
Why not tow it to shore, ASAP after spotting the tail out of water?
I'ld rather swim up thru 30 ft of water next to the shore,
then 100 feet in the open ocean.
Vessels can be rebuilt, men cannot.
We have the technology
Men can be rebuilt WAY easier than a submarine lmfao. What a dumb quote. It takes 3 minutes and a single orgasm. Humans are easily replaceable lmfao. We breed like rabbits
To some care not 😢
Unfortunately men can be replaced 😢
@@wengerball8697 Not to their families. I understand what you mean though.
I just discovered this channel and watched a few. Great format, all the proper context and the story telling flows without getting boring. Definitely subscribed
Alistair MacLean probably took inspiration from the incident with the torpedo tube for his novel "Ice station Zebra", though in the book it was a Soviet saboteur, not a careless painter, who had blocked the stop cock and disconnected the mechanism of the torpedo tube front door. The description of the incident in the book was remarkably similar, even saying there were a few drops of water coming from the cock.
Pretty sure he was in the RN around the same the time so he'd have known about the incident.
That cut off. Thanks for the knowledge
Thanks for another great learning experience! I like your honest way of pointing out "actual footage" as opposed to presenters that stuff non sensical footage that just confuses the story when the pictures don't relate. I also like the way you point out the hypocrisy of the situation. Groete, beste, Totsiens.
Why were there photos of USN personnel then? And at one point what looked like an Oberon class submarine which were post WW II subs? Also the ‘Control Room’ footage looked like 70’s technology. At 5:50 we see what looks like a Soviet Nuclear Submarine. So much for actual footage.
Great work as usual, but I think something might've happened when uploading this video to TH-cam as the ending is cut off which I KNOW is not normal for your quality of videos/editing/storytelling! So might be worth looking at re-uploading... Or wait until peak posting views have been achieved then re-upload the full video 🤫😆 I'll gladly watch twice 😉👍
THIS is a NIGHTMARE! Why didnt they tow it in right away?
Everyone, please remember. At this point, the science of submaritime rescue had just barely been invented. While the Thetis was undergoing her trials, the US Navy was still recovering the USS Squalus. For some reason, onevof her induction valves opened as she was diving. Twenty-six men died as a result. But every man who survived the intial disaster was rescued.
This is almost exclusively due to one man: Swede Momsen, for all intents and purposes the inventor of this science. The diving chamber, the locking collars, and the escape hatch were all completely or primarily his inventions.
The macabre idea of recovering a sub once it's crew was dead was not new. Until escape hatches, docking collars, and rescue chambers were invented, there was literally nothing else that could be done, most of the time.
He tested the escape hatch in a sub at 110 feet. Several months earlier, an entire crew died in that same sub at that same depth.
Video stopped before finishing the sentence?
Great video, there seems to be an issue with the cut right at the end though
You post, I click! WS is one of the few channels I have watched every video at least twice.
🤣 so good to read. Thanks🤛🏻
Absolutely love this channel , you're story telling ability is Absolutely amazing ❤ love from cape town
Thanks. My brother lives in Cape Town. I would love to live in Cape Town. Maybe one day.
I read a book about this when I was a kid 60 years or so ago when I lived in Manchester, it claimed that the cause of the sinking was that all the Torpedo tubes had gauges on them to tell if the outer door was open or closed, the problem was that when fitting the gauges there was a pipe or something in the way so the gauge was installed upside down so when all gauges were reading 12 O'clock to say the the doors were closed in fact all doors but 1 were closed and the other one was open which caused the flooding when the inner door was opened causing the flooding and sinking, how true this is I really don't know though???????
A sad story of a bungled sea trial. No dog and ponies should have been made until after sea fit. Tragic.
Always boggles my mind not only that they'd have passengers, but that they would even have a full crew versus only one watch on board, and that they wouldn't have things like air hoses etc already hooked up by default before they started (assuming there's a valve on the trunk built for that as implied in the video), or towing vessel and divers on hand, blah blah
The "Thetis" incident is complecated and yes mistakes were made. But to a certain extent the board of enquiry was correct, nothing like those circumstances had ever happend before, however blame could have been attached to:
Allowing too many "guests" from the Dockyard on board during these triails;
The lack of awarness of the escort tug as to testing procedures and what to do if they though something had gone wrong;
The signals sent to Portsbouth during the accident could have been given more priority by the Navy;
The " emergency" equipment easily available was obtained was faulty due to lack of maintenance;
The lack of care taken to ensure that the tubes safety test features were operating correctly such that the stopcock on tube 5 was outside its operational perimeters;
Then add to the above that the crew were unable to easilly read the indicators showing that the outer doors were open on tube 5, which was obscured behind a horizontal bar and that non of these indicatiors had a standard "orientation" which made it easire to check.
....Its a chain of errors from lack of familiarity for the new crew on a new submarine of a new class which had not previously been made in that dockyard. Its a prome example of Murphy's law in action.
Now you criticised the RN over not cutting a vent in the rear of the submarine to pipe air in and there were very reasonable engineering reasons as to why that did not happen. Foremost being by the time they were in a position to undertake that task ( having all the tools engineers etc that were needed) the turning of the tide creating strong currents which dragged the submarine under...... Had the initial signal sent been treated with more priority ( so not having a two+ hour delay) maybe they could have saved some people and the salvage ship Vigilant did have that equipment on board to do just the operation you suggest... So to defend the RN it was not a decision taken not to save the boat, and alow the crew to perish, and had they knowledge on how to do it..., due to so many of the K class acting like "lawn darts" and burying their bows into the seabed because they were a terrible design which made diving the boat a lottery!
If you want further reading Paul Kemp's book "the T class submarine - the classivpc British design" covers the incident in chaprer 8
I'd say the shipyard is at fault...
thank you for saying birkenhead and not liverpool. frustrates alot of the residents
Theres a photo of this boat in RNA Wallasey, about a mile from where she was built in Cammel Lairds Birkenhead
Hi quality video, thank you. Very sad story.
👍🏻
Subs are creepy as hell. I was a recon marine and we had to train in locking out of subs. Jeezus it’s all a nightmare even when things are going well.
HMS back then was obviously not short for Her Majesty's Ship but rather His Majesty's Ship since Elizabeth would not become Queen until 1952.
QUESTION #1: Why did the Royal Navy REFUSE help from the salvage vessel when this help was first offered?
PROBABLE ANSWER: Pride and hubris - for the great Royal Navy to have to ADMIT that it needed help is more than their pride could accept.
QUESTION #2: Why did the Royal Navy REFUSE to allow the salvage vessel to drill a hole in the ship in order to save all those lives?
PROBABLE ANSWER: Because for the military, lives are expendable, lives are CHEAP and submarines are EXPENSIVE.
QUESTION #3: Why was the Royal Navy allowed to be judge and jury in this investigation?
PROBABLE ANSWER: An INDEPENDENT inquiry would have found the Navy at fault and would have forced the Navy to pay compensation to the families of the victims.
Its crazy to think that very few of them had the actual balls to crawl through that escape hatch. If they all simply followed the captain, or atleast if the crew and everybody with a survival suit did, the air wouldve lasted the passengers long enough. If the navy had just been ok with patching a small hole in the hull it couldve been pressurized again and refloated with the passengers inside. They truly did sacrifice them for a tiny hole!
"Ifs" "ands" & "buts" were candy and nuts everyday would be Christmas.
Not letting a little hole for an airline be cut in the hull was a pretty contemptible and foolish fatal decision@@bobfranke2347
After the first two pairs got out it was decided to send them in 4s, two submariners and two Cammell Laird men in each batch. This was disastrous as they were tightly jammed in and led to the panic described, where they drowned. However a bigger issue was the control of the outer hatch. Once the outer hatch was opened and the men swam out the hatch could be closed from inside the sub but the wheel used to do that must them be returned to the start of it's travel so that control returns to the wheel inside the hatch. Somebody didn't do that after the last pair got out, only turned it one turn. (may not have known they needed to). The result was the next men in could only open the hatch a few inches, see daylight above, but not get out. They didn't know what was wrong, only that it was jammed. So nobody could use it.
I spent 23 years on submarines. Sad that these poor souls did not have the escape procedures that now exist.
*pause* "At least he has company" 👌
Just a quick FYI, the H, in H.M.S. then (as now, with KC.III) stood for 'His' not 'Her'.
6:03 uniforms weren’t like that until well after the year 2000. I did 22 years
Then you would have noticed the bloody nuclear submarine in the frame before, wouldn't ye?
Save a rusty dusty submarine that wasn’t even built properly, instead of saving human lives just shows how much our leaders care about us 😢
Agree on the ethics but she wasn’t rusty and or dusty she was brand new but unfortunately untried.
Bro they had passengers for a sea trial?
Video cuts off at the end
The deepest unassisted escape from a submarine is 60mts (200ft).
Was the video meant to just cut off mid sentence?
Looks like there's a few seconds missing on the end of the vid
Sucks the end of the video got cut off
Thanks for the video on the Thetis disaster, you mentioned HMS Dolphin (I used to live near there and worked at the Royal Navy research establishment which was next door to Dolphin) which had a feature of the Gosport skyline which is the 100 foot (30 metre) submarine escape practice tower which i'm curious to know if it's design and building was influenced by this accident or is it just coincidence it's height is very similar to the depth Thetis sank too.
The SETT was built in response to Submarine accidents, being stated in 1949. It's probably safe to assume that Thetis featured in the thinking, but there were two other escape trainers before SETT at 15 and 30 feet.
As I understand it nobody tried to use the forward escape compartment on Thetis, not thinking they could escape from that depth. The tower was a response to that, so I have read.
Great video,such a loss of life.I do family history and a distant cousin on my mothers side,Joseph Charles Hughes was a Petty Officer cook on board,sadly died.
Why is it randomly cut at the end?
The story was just too sad so he probably had to go down to the pub to numb himself. God knows l would if l had all their Pstreons and sponsorship and what not. And l would invite all his faithful viewers to also go down to the pub, or maybe mail them some whiskey. Anyone from the WLS team reading this? Hello? Please.
This appears to have ended a bit too soon? Fires on and Sinks? Or my YT is screwed. I love discovering new channels though. "subbed". I like you're style.
You do awesome work
👍🏻
11:59 a bit of dark humor in a horrible situation! I like it
US Navy sub S4 sank off Provincetown Massachusetts. The local fishing fleet arrived to raise it, they raised sunken vessels all the time, there was tapping from the sub, some were alive. The Navy shooed them off while waiting for a crane barge to come from Boston, delayed by bad bad weather. All perished. And yes they did raise it and used it for an in harbor training vessel. There is memorial in town and a vigil service every year.
Liverpool Bay, not Irish Sea.
Liverpool sAlderman also lost aboard.
Twas a recovered, was later found washed up in sea sludge mud then dragged out, emptied and refloated as Tbolt.
DETAIL . . . In 1938 HMS Thetis was HIS Majesty’s submarine, Victoria died in 1901 and Britain didn’t have another Queen until 1952.
Love hearing about naval history
Same! I've learned so much about the history of man on the seas, maritime history and laws, and now I keep all sailors in my prayers. 🌹
Love you're handle skyraider favorite airplane of all time
HMS in 1936 was His Majesties Submarine.
That is a very unfortunate headline. Without a doubt this was a case of numerous errors when met at the same day. Starting with the design sub, like installing features backwards so that the controls for the ballast were backwards, the forward dive plane being made so that the locking mechanism would not work to release it (in my understanding of the situation, the navy should have never let this boat go out on even a brief trial until the entire design was reworked), of the watertight doors, painting the torpedo door seals with enamel paint, of not allowing anyone other than the strictly necessary crewmen take the boat out (yes, the subs were still called boats, if you look at the old designation you will find for example K Boats, and beyond), out for the first trial run, and moving to other people, not training enough people on how to use escape suits and escape hatches, the tug not dropping anchor until it was sure that the sub was okay and then not waiting around, regardless of the situation unless they had received an all clear type notice, and then more. Not one person's fault and if it had not been for so many things to have happened at once, quite possibly all these problems with the sub itself, these might have been discovered and fixed. In a way, this is like when America's first supersonic bomber was making its initial flight being filmed by Air Force chase planes, one got close enough so that the vortex wind disturbance generated by the vertical stabilizer caused him to do a roll which caused the jet to hit the vertical stabilizer, and both planes crashed. I do not remember so I speculate that this was still before we knew all of the causes of vortexes. The chase plane was filming and was possibly getting as close as possible to film something the pilot noticed and thought was noteworthy enough to get as close as possible to so so.
There used to be a show about disasters and what caused them and in every one of the disasters, numerous things, some very small, all met together at the same time.
It’s called the Swiss cheese theory. When you layer enough holes on top of each other, sooner or later, you’re going to create a gigantic hole that is catastrophic.
We should never forget those who paid the ultimate price for freedom
Honour & Respect . Lest we forget . .
The submarine at Minute 4:10 is a 1960s Oberon class
HMS = HIS Majesty's Ship, during the time period being discussed.
1:17 Her Majesty's Submarine? In 1938 the monarch was George VI, a king. Never knew he was trans.
😂😂😂
sounds about right, because people are expendable where as machines can't be replaced..
Ya this is a sad story
Just a slight error Captain! H.M.S. in 1936 stood for "His Majesty's Ship" as the UK at that time was ruled by a King! Either King Edward VIII or King George VI! Sorry for the small correction sir! Loving your content
Excellent narration of horrendous tale.
Keep posting boss...
👌🏻
I dunno why but everytime i watch a video for some reason for brief moment you look like you laying on leather bed while telling the story. Love content😂
Is the last minutes missing?
Did this video end abrupt?
Love your videos
Thanks 👍🏻
when AI gets good enough to be a true personal assistant, i want mine to have this guys voice.