It's not the music having no appeal. That's property developers and councils assisting them by regulating venues out of existence. The way of life that, whether it involves live music or not, revolves around the Ale house, Tavern, concert hall, Longhouse... is under attack and has been for thirty years.
@StephenAB23 doubt it. Any more than classical music will come back round. Guitar music will always be there, but will be increasingly niche. Kids have it too easy. They are accommodated at every turn and have nothing to be angry at. Half of them will never fall in love. Bleak? You betcha. No one my age or younger buys newspapers. Music will go the same way. It's only the 50 something doctors and lawyers who are keeping the industry going. And they won't be around much longer.
I 100% agree which is why I’ll never sell my tube amps. But tbh I play through headphones 90% of the time and my 100w amp tends to just make my office look pretty
Well the TMP has a touch screen with 10 knobs. Each foot switch is also a rotary encoder knob, plus two more large main knobs on both sides of the screen. Don't has more knobs in a more eloquent way than others. The combo really is the best of the UI's!
Totally agree I’m 100% rely on digital gears especially Line 6, but I find myself prefer a knob on rotary switch instead of a slide bar thing in the Helix.
Regardless of what some say, for what these modelers are designed to do (give you the sound of the amp after it’s processed) we are coming close to the edge of what we are capable of hearing. I mean, pair almost any of these devices up with the Tone Master FR and you’re not losing much, record direct to interface and you’ll be very hard pressed to know what was actually used, thousands of A/B tests have proved that at this point. Other than GAS, there’s not a huge reason to abandon gear you currently have. You can get restless and go back to a pedalboard using a Nano, ToneX, UA pedal or whatever, add a VP4 or 4 individual pedals of your choice and you’ll be at the same price point or higher of the FM9 or Helix and you won’t sound any better or worse. It’s great to have all these options, I really don’t know what the next gen is going to do to tempt me away from what I already have.
I think, after my experience with the Boss GX-100 (only needing about a third of what it is truly capable of, even for the lesser modeler), pairing down the flagships, focusing on making them more user friendly for gigging musicians would be more appealing. If they could make things download-able, for example, like amp models, instead of selling a unit that comes loaded with a ridiculous amount of amp models the majority of which will never be used, the unit would be more flexible. The attractive part of the GX-100 to me was that it DID NOT have a million amp models, just a few tried and true models (out the 25 or 30 models it comes with, I only use 5.) It would be so great to be able to download only the ones you might need, saving all the processing power for effects, eq, etc. and keep the costs down as well maybe, in theory.
@@trev3971 Not everyone uses VST’s. At least for guitar effects. Many if us use them for mixing, sure, but we can also have controllers, so we don’t have to click much on the screen.
Touch screen is good for some things like reordering effects, but I wouldn't want a UI based around one. I'm sure there are things that will be added that we aren't even thinking of. One thing I would want is either Wifi or Bluetooth so you can wirelessly connect to an editor.
Helix Floor should make these changes - 1. Type C USB interface (the current one is doggy), 2. Non-Metal switches (metal one's rust and degrade) 3. Big Touch Screen (this is a given) 4. Amp capture ability (they all do this now a days) 5. A version without the onboard pedal (that will make it smaller) 6. Higher DSP (bigger chip) 7. A frame (body) that will last forever (again could be high quality plastic) 8. Some vocal specific effect (for example - feedback suppressor) - How many agree with this list? 🙂
So you aren’t just paying for the hardware, you are paying for the work to develop the product plus the ongoing support including free firmware updates.
The Bald Shredder' gets some of the most incredible tones ive ever heard. he uses the same Pod Farm he purchased almost 20 years ago, sounds as great as any of the TOTL modelers or tube amps . you should check him out if for no other reason than to prove to yourself that we have already had everything we need for decades now
I'm not going to speculate on what Line 6 may come up with next as a flagship that would "replace" the Helix, but my Helix floor is the perfect size for me. Smaller would mean less switches or getting them closer to each other which would diminish its usefulness for my case. My workflow is to have one preset per song with generally 4 snapshots per presets (I have the snapshots in the bottom row and carefully selected individual effects in the top row. Some of my presets have 5 snapshots so I add one to the top row. This works well for me. Also, almost all my presets have 2 amps (one clean and one for crunch to high gain (generally the Revv Gen Red). What I would like in a new Helix type flagship is amp models with all the controls of the real life version on the individual amps. The Placater Dirty gets close to that and it makes it very flexible. Also, clearly, some of the older models could benefit from being redone. I would also love 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 cabs with G12H-75 Creamback speakers which I find is a somewhat glaring omission in the current Helix 3.71 firmware. I love my physical Revv 1x12 with that speaker in it and I also have a 1960A Marshall 4x12 with 2 H75 Creambacks and 2 V30s in X pattern. That cab sounds incredible. Touch screen would be nice as well as a bigger screen but not a deal breaker for me. More DSP power would certainly be a must for any upgraded or "replacement" devices for the current Helix/HX ones. But I really have no idea what they will come up with. Hopefully they keep one new model with the Helix floor form factor. I love mine!
I use spdif when connecting my modeler, in my case an AxeFx2, to my audio interface. The idea is basically to avoid analog/digital conversions though the difference is quite negligible in most scenarios. But it also gives me some extra routing possibilities if I want to use my out analog for monitoring and spdif for the actual recording source.
If Behringer can price their new flagship Wing Rack mixing console at just the exact same price as the 12 years old X32 rack it replaces, so can line6 do for Helix's replacement.
Don’t forget not all musicians play paid gigs. Church musicians in particular are significant purchasers and yet most play for free, and for the joy of it
Working in the live music industry I had the chance to geek out with many techs for pro guitarists and when the helix appears in a live tour scenario it's main selling point is the IO, both for options and flexibility. I doubt they are going to get rid of it, maybe to keep the price in check the LT minimalism (if we can call it that) will be the flagship floorboard, but we'll get the full experience in the rack unit and remote control or even have it expanded. I think they might "trim some fat" by going the touchscreen route and removing some knobs and buttons with all the hardware they require and the variax IO which, unless something moves into that front, is now officialy obsolete. I'm actually confident we'll see some additions, like maybe an embedded wireless unit of higher quality compared to the Pod Go experiment, and (in my dreams) a combo TS/XLR input like in the Quad Cortex instead of removing the MIC input as in the LT.
I honestly feel like the pod go is an amazing form factor for the helix to emulate. Helix 2.0 should definitely be smaller. Maybe 60 percent of its current size. Or maybe have a Helix “mini” option. Touchscreen is cool but I’ve gotten pretty used to the way the helix works.
I had a Kemper, basically spent all my time hunting for tones. I sold it, spent that money on UA Woodrow, Ruby, Dream and now the Enigma. I'm a happy camper, not looking back.
That's my fear with modelers. Option paralysis. Too much time messing around and tweaking rather than just finding a sound, going with it and then making it my own.
@@jnh73not only it's a lot easier to find tones in these (I use the Enigmatic), but also the feel is immensely superior. They almost feel like an amp, almost. But as they sound so good, you don't even think about it not being an amp. I had the Helix for years, made loads of presets to never be able to find my sound, my thing. Always sound digital and didn't feel good to play. I bought the Enigmatic, tried a couple stuff for two days, second day decides on my preset and now I barely change it. Sometimes I do little changes depending on the room, but nothing more. And it always sounds and feels good and mixes well with a lot of different sounds and genres/sound styles.
@@jnh73 No, I don't think it is even close. I basically bought really good and better than the Kemper can do amp tones of my favorite amps. Now instead of endlessly searching I just plug in my favorite amps and practice. I don't own all of them, I only bought what I like, if something new comes around, yeah sure maybe but from what I like to play right now, I don't need them.
I have Helix LT, so it is the stripped down version of Helix Floor. I don't care as much about the hardware. They could keep the unit pretty much as is but upgrade the DSP. I think the focus needs to be on the software and quality of amps and effects. I've built a board around my LT. Everything I'm doing now is to extend the capacity or improve tone quality. Those are the areas any modeling company should focus on.
I was a tube amp guy for a long time. I purchased a used HX stomp 5 years ago on a whim after my daughter was born. To my surprise, I still use the stomp daily. My hand wired amps are collecting dust. When the helix successor comes out, I’ll either sell off a few tube amps for the new flagship or pick up a helix LT at half the cost of the successor. I think there is still a lot of mileage left in the Helix ecosystem.
As a home hobbyist who records, but also who will play out occasionally, I’m tapped out on prices!! The stomp XL would be the format I would move to if I were leading Line 6. Increase the overall processing power, but also allow more freedom with the user and how they use that processing power, e.g. number of blocks useable, etc.
It’s a good point but isn’t an overpowered stomp xl just an LT in disguise? And the price , after the recent corrsction(reduction) isn’t a huge jump). They have built such a differentiated market that’s hard to improve one without undermining the other a bit. I love my used LT but it would be nice if it was smaller. I do miss the size and weight of the PodGo.
The way forward is to develop a different speaker sim tech for live. Capture or replicate the sound of different speakers without cabinets and room reflections and traditional studio recording chain which are very coloured. Because what continues to suck is hearing a recording of a speaker cabinet played back through a speaker cabinet. It’s why the Boss Katana is so relentlessly popular, even though it is digital modelling, it is actually an amp with a guitar amp power section and guitar amp speaker. It’s why the Line 6 Catalyst never challenged it, all the demos of the Catalyst sounded like a recording of an amp speaker coming out of a speaker coming down a microphone and out of whatever speaker you are listening on. Modellers are amazing for recording, because that’s what they are recreating, but live it’s always some kind of compromise (unless you use in ears).
If I were a big company I’d be designing something modular. Think like the base unit has the screen, main controller, 2 foot switches and processing for 6-8 high quality blocks. Then the physical body supports slotting in extra modules that each add 2 more foot switches and processing for 2-4 more blocks. A module for an expression pedal. A module for microphone input. Etc. The whole thing needs to be built around a very low latency high throughout bus that connects the modules, so you don’t add latency as you add modules. Looper module. Etc. the sky is the limit and hobbyist can get in for cheaper and upgrade as they get hooked on the ecosystem.
I think I said it on another video but… Hx stomp XL size with helix processing, iPad Bluetooth compatible editor and built in wireless… would sell like an oggy on a Sunday!
The thing that I like the most about the helix is the fact that it does have all thouse in and outputs and the varaix input. And therefore the amount of routing options available. Though ive aways been a line 6 user. Taking them away would just make it just like everything else. The inputs are crutial to what I do with instrument switching, live.
Let L6 cook man. If anyone is giving us options for hardware across all price ranges, packing tons of value into their units, continuing to support their modeling platform with updates, and giving us the full modeler in a plugin, it's L6.
We don't *have* to have the very latest / most expensive / most advanced to make music. John would still sound superb on an early Gen POD. I'm a fan of buying gear that is a few years old (but still good) and not worrying about running with the latest and 'greatest'.
I think the general idea of a flagship, which you hinted at in this video, is that it acts like a big neon sign for your brand. Companies don't usually shift the same volume of their flagship model, but they have to have one because without one they are at risk of looking like a minor player in the global market, and that perception could cost them millions of $. The next Line6 flagship product will most probably offer more and better of everything. Like Fractal they are known for pushing the boundaries of what can be achieved with electronic music, and they aren't going to stop trying to do that just because we can already create great tones. If companies did that we'd all still be breaking down on the M1 in a lorry overloaded with rack gear 😆 I expect the next Line6 flagship pedalboard to have probably 2 or 3x the DSP, a touchscreen for the drag & drop routing part of the UI, a tougher case and knobs, a revamped UI that is more intuitive than the sliders for every parameter, probably more like real world pedals/amps (that's what most guitarists prefer as far as I know), best in class synth engine and pitch tracking, improvements to the looper in terms of recording time and more customisable functionality, vocal processing, amp capture, vst hosting??? - I better stop because this is getting silly...
I’m How long has fender been making the deluxe reverb? Decades upon decades. It has been relatively the same platform. With that I think it reasonable to just leave the platform pretty much the same. Maybe tweak some things to make it more streamline. Beyond that there really is no reason to change anything. The power this units have is pretty incredible when you take time to think about it.
My latest solution… Quilter DirectAmp with my favorite pedals including HX FX. I got rid of my Helix, HX Stomp, Kemper and Fractal AX8. I’m very happy with my rig.
I the next Helix should be something inbetween the full Helix and the Hx stomp in form factor. Maybe a bit smaller than the Helix LT? Always felt the full blown Helix was too much, though I do dig the scribble strips...
The LT is awesome, and a good bit cheaper now, but there used to be no denying it’s big. If you make a smaller version though you presumably kill the LT and maybe the stomp at the same time. Might not be a bad idea if the orcs is right.
I would like to see a more powerful Stomp XL, with scribble strips, and the option to load amp profiles, alongside the modelled amps. Also a Line 6 powered THR type amp.
Nope, I didn't buy the full helix. I own the helix lt. I was looking for something smaller and easier to tweek at a gig. So I purchased a Headrush core and am very happy with it. I'm done with modelers for awhile. I don't see such a drastic change to make me want to go out buy another one. We'll see in about 5 - 7 years.
Its hard to create an all-in-one solution that works for the professional musician, that isnt completely overkill for the weekend warrior or bedroom rocker. When I think about it, my ideal pedal would be something of a blend between the Helix, the Quad cortex, and a Seymour Duncan power stage. Take the best parts of all these units and you would end up having the capability to power a cab from one output, while feeding XLR to front of house, the ability to capture your pedals and amplifiers and having a sturdy functional expression pedal fpr volume / wah / etc. make sure that it takes a standard IEC power cable and omg take my money! Right now if i want the functionality ive mentioned, i need Multi seperate devices and its a mess to organize them, a nightmare to connect at rehearsal and gigs.
I think, the manufacturers of this stuff will try to keep the prices in the range of today or rather tend to bring them down. One should always consider that electronics have become cheaper and cheaper over time and at the same time multipled their power. The major influence of inflation comes from the salaries of employees,. Be it in development or service. But also here you will see a significant increase in efficiency. Service will be done in future more and more by chat bots and development does always win via economies of scale. This ist something Line6 has already taken to a very high level by producing devices across all price segments by using more or less the same pieces of software, sometimes more, sometimes less like for the POD Express. The latter is a great marketing tool to attract more musicians to the modeling world. So, no concerns from my side.
I think brands are now branching towards the smaller footprint pedals because that is really what most people need. I would say more than 50% of people who own a full Helix/Axe FX/Quad Cortex/etc. are actually using relatively simple chains and only a few presets for gigging, which you could totally do with something like an HX Stomp/HX Stomp XL/FM3/etc. Also, now that Hotone have announced they are adding captures to the Ampero II (even including the Ampero II Stomp, apparently), I think it might become a real alternative to the main brands.
The Ampero Stage II is awesome and is everybit as good as the top tier modellers if not better for hafl the cost. Yes it already has capture tech and it lacks nothing. Im surprised this thing has not blown up more than it has. Its litterally the best modeller on the market right now.
This is it. I have a NUX MG-300. I play mostly rock and metal. So... Exactly five presets - two distorted tones for rhythm and for leads, two clean tones for rhythm and for leads, one bass tone for when I play the bass. I'm not a shoegaze player, I don't need a million tones. Five presets that I created years ago. That's it.
@@Tigermaster1986 Yup and dont need to sound exactly like others. I need my tone nothing else matters so I dont need to capture anything. The tones are already there in the modeller. They are plenty good enough.
I have an HX Stomp and I've been seriously considering selling it and buying a used ACS1. I occasionally use the on board effects but I have ridiculous amount of pedals (I don't have a problem, I can quit any time I want) and I use the Deluxe Reverb model most of the time. It's nice to have a Memory Man or a Roland Space Echo right there when I want it but I can get nearly identical sounds out of my RV-6 and DD-8 if I need to. I can imagine a future where those pared back, stomp box sized modellers are the standard daily drivers and the full featured modellers are a luxury, like a Bugatti.
Aside from what it did (which btw was awesome) - I loved the concept of the Retrowreck a while back. While we all love the do everything devices - and it's easy to feel like giving you less is like paying to turn on your heated seats you already bought - I definitely think the interface is improved with a dedicated knob interface. Honestly - the only time my HX Stomp XL leaves the JTM45 model is when I plug in my nylon string guitar.
Maybe a helix head with tubes that's designed to power speaker cabs and have a smaller foot control that's designed to inergrate with stomp boxes boxes kinda like a spider but done right
My next upgrade would be a helix that's smaller, with a bigger touch screen, remove the volume pedal base, adjustable footswitches like QC, more DSP, capture that can be done live, preferably while running the full patch behind it, more amps/effects. Basically I want everything known to man before I need another modeler. And it's ket that it's smaller so I can still run analog drives and whatever other pedals without taking up the entire stage. Some sort of built in wireless IEM would also be sweet but now I'm getting greedy, maybe?
I think the future is Tonex style but like you can do paid for add ons. So you get basic updates but you also can pay for like extra updated features. You would be able to have basic effects but you could also pay for more specific effect models. Idk… that seems like the most user friendly idea.
If L6 just wanted to slap a "new flagship" label on the same old thing with a cosmetic update and some bigger chips, they'd have done it way before now. What would I like? Bigger chips, huge touch screen, extra MIDI buttons for DAW/Ableton/Playback, maybe Bluetooth in for rehearsing, possibly onboard recording to aid with patch creation, maybe Dante out, additional controller sends (maybe Bluetooth) for more button and pedal controllers, and all the things that I haven't thought of but which will make it last another 10 years. This is a modeler, not a capture device, but if they want to dive down that rabbit hole, how about an AI-type feature that analyzes a song clip and creates a basic patch to start programming from? Maybe the ability to pull guitar out of a song so you can play along with it (either the stems w/o the guitar or the guitar part to study)? I still find my Helix fun to program, intuitive, easy to gig with, and extremely powerful.
I think Helix could have 3 or 4 USB-C ports to receive MIDI from a tablet, Mic, Variax, and a USB digital out for recording. That would all be smaller and more versatile than reserving the large purpose-built ports. The other major thing I'm looking at is the foot switches. I've had two sets of switches go bad, including a full switch daughterboard replaced at an official service center.
At some point, you get option paralysis. What I have experienced is that at some point, you home in on 2 to 3 great sounds, add some options, and call it done. I'm actually debating on keeping the Helix LT I recently picked up, or swap it for a Boss GX-100. Im personally like having a wash/ wah option on board. I know the Helix can do more and has received a lot of updates, but at what point is enough just that? The Tonex One is a good example of something that might be enough for a lot of people.
The main thing that a "flagship" unit offers is consistency and stability vs using a pedalboard with a compact modeler or capture device. As long as those features don't get lost in the advancement of the tech, then I'm for it. However, I suspect that at a certain point, the stability will take the hit in favor of saving a buck in production as the space becomes more and more competitive.
A big part of a decision to buy into a modelling platform is about the track record of the company - because you’re buying the product for the long haul. H90 is a great case in point - it’s a lot of money yes. But look at how Eventide developed the H9. I felt comfortable buying a product that was kinda not totally finished at launch because I knew they could and would sort it. And already it’s a brilliant product IMO & one I’ll use for years. Line6 can trade off its amazing track record with a new product in the same way. And this is where, despite lots of good features & a footprint that really appealed to me, the Quad Cortex didn’t make sense. And I continue to think long term it will fail to realise its full potential because of development limitations. Also agree with the comment that it’s the parlous state of live music that is a bigger worry/barrier. That’s the pipeline issue, not the tech.
I would like to see digital line-level guitar gear companies begin to coordinate with existing gear so people have a real choice. Why not have a piece of hardware that contains a high quality attenuator that can deal with a new ( or old), valve amp and bring the user's personal amp sound to a point where it can have digital ( time based) effects, and analogue compressors and overdrives blended with the signal and then sent to an onstage FR FR or FOH mixer or anything else the user needs. This would necessitate abandoning part of the existing business model ( no pun) for something, or anything else that the guitarist might want. When I began playing, everyone was forced into having a 100 watt Marshall and quad ( even if you preferred using something like a Fender Deluxe combo) Now we are coerced into buying line-level processors that are based on headphone listening rather than hearing an amp in the air of the room. We seem ,always, to be at the mercy of industry investment, rather than the free market place of choice. Either way it is not what most of us that remain unhypnotised want or need. This is not a call for going into the past, because that was similarly restrictive to the amateur or professional guitarist. Whatever new digital products come out, they are likely to be based on whatever they think they can get away with, according to what they've sold in the past.
I’m not worried a bit. A ‘real’ amp with analog effects still rules… and most audiences don’t care either way. So simply make the choice that works for you. Back in the day I was using Marshall stacks. Now I choose among a trio of 12” combos, one vintage Fender and one Marshall DSL - and one Boss Katana MkII modeler. The Katana does not sound as good as either of the others. But tweaked correctly it sounds good enough, and the plethora of built-in digital effects means I don’t have to bother with the pedalboard. That’s all good news for my 60+ year old back.
I think the next thing needs to be customization. If you can purchase a processor that's modular and expandable it'll be a game changer. Imaging buying something like the POD express or Cortex Nano and then being able to expand the number of assignable foot switches you can add to it, almost like an old school pedalboard. Some people don't need 8 foot switches, others might want 16. I'm still waiting for someone to develop an expression based tremolo that I can clip on my guitar so I can stop using analog trem bridges so my guitar will stay in tune.
I’m still going with processing power should double and become cheaper every year, and these units are using older chips that have been redesigned for music gear, keeping flagships at 1500$ shouldn’t be too difficult, even with inflation. Great video love your playing, keep sharing.
Upgrade some stuff like the chip for more power and change some cosmetic stuff like adding a bunch of different colors to choose from. Maybe change the design/shape of it a little bit. If line 6 wanted it to be, the helix could be what iPhone is to apple. Just over all keeping things simple with just cosmetic changes and more power.
Its a good point, and I would add its also a problem statement for Line6/Helix in particular, since they were a race to market share early on, but now they are the dinosaur of the competitive bunch. Not only does the next iteration have to cost more potentially just because of inflation, they need a major update in design to pair with that which potentially drives cost up outside of the inflationary adjustment. It probably accounts for a delay in releasing a v2 like product. Line 6 is sort of in a spot with it this issue specifically because they are 10 years deep/old in that product. Trouble with tech speed in guitar realm really.
More processing DSP and models of boutique effects that in 2015 might have been considered avant garde but are now more mainstream (Earthquaker, Chase Bliss, Hologram, etc.).
Even as old as the Helix is it still sounds great. I think the only thing it lacks is power. Maybe more power and a touch screen would be killer. Possibly a smaller footprint. The only thing I hate about the Helix is the built in pedal. I don't even use it. I use an external pedal when I rarely use one. It seems that a lot of the effects makers are going to ARM DSP processors as opposed to the Analog Devices style ones. A friend of mine who is a programmer told me that the ARM processors take a lot less power to run. That's what's in the the Fractal VP4 and all the new Strymon pedals. The big Eventide units have been using them for years.
For me, since I’m using the Variax VDI input, I would prefer the possibility of simply paying for an update CPU and its installation on my Helix Floor. I know, it won’t happen, but it’s still free to dream…
I think the pricing is fine based on line6 proving they invest heavily on free updates. However the issue for me is that they are trying to be a solution for all price points. Whilst i understand this, i dont want to be spending £1500-£2000 on a brand that feels better known down at the toy/more affordable end of the industry. If im spending that money, i do want to feel good about the brand as well as the product because I can with other brands
Not everything has gone up in price. Fractal has been able to keep the price pretty steady. FM3 launched at the same price of AX8, and yes, they paired down the amount of switches. Regarding gigs, is kinda funny, I used to get paid $50-$100ish around '88-'94 and I've done gigs recently at the same price. $100/gig wasn't enough to live on in 88, I can't believe the price hasn't at least doubled. (Drinks have definitely more than doubled in price)
I have an FM9 but often play Variax guitars. I wish I could find a way to make changes on the guitar without buying a helix or an LT. I love the helix stuff but buying another unit isn’t in my budget these days.
I personally use the expression pedal extensively, and all the buttons on Helix. I'd have to really swallow hard if they removed the onboard pedal in a new model for the sake of making it smaller.
If you look at other new modelers that have recently came out about 1700.00 is the tops and flagships average 1500-1700. You have to remember electronics come down over time because technology gets cheaper as it becomes more common and cheaper to produce even as it gets more powerful. So ai would think the next Helix will be around 1700.00
My question is what are companies going to be able to do to set their devices apart? We're reaching a point where a lot of the devices in any given price point basically do the same things give or take a feature. Right now I'm looking over options for a floorboard type unit and the deciding factor for me isn't really the amp/fx list or necessarily the in/out set (most floodboards have so many ins and outs, more than I'll use on pub gig), its the size and weight. In the year 2024 you have to honestly try as hard as you can to get bad tone. If someone can't get a good sound out of any of the modelers or plugins out there, that's on them not the gear.
32 bit now so 64 will be next. Simplicity in operation will always be nice. I can tell/hear when a person is solo using 32bit like Kemper and the likes, but not in the mix. I like the sound but at some point, the end result of tone maybe sounding over processed almost synthesizer sounding maybe. You know they will come up with better ADA converters and so on. I remember when CD players first came out and the music sounded thin and sterile, and it too was the ADA's and they have come a long way in sounding more and more analog. So, at some point it will be the heat factor like computers, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. The interaction between a guitar and a cranked-up tube amp. Think, if we started with digital back in the 50s-60s and we just got into tube power now what would we be talking about? Wet dry wet.. lol
I gig happily with a nice tube amp and some pedals, and have many other more important things to worry about in the world. Expensive digital amp modellers can take care of themselves.
I think, changes will come in terms of size or something "more" easy to use, and this is not only for Line 6, because all this stuff are basing their sounds on analog technology created on 50s or 60s...maybe 80s if you are talking about stereo stuffs or more complex algorithms (delays, reverbs, mods, etc) like Eventide or TC Electronics, so for these and many other reasons, those companies will not reinvent the wheel, the only thing they can do is to improve the experience, as you said
The hardware of the Helix is fine, but some upgrades could be made I guess. Yes more powerful processors would be useful but most of the upgrades need to be in the software not the hardware. EG the Amp sims need to feel more alive under fingers like the Fractal or profilers. A profiling system should be a must as its now pretty mainstream. The FX need a serious upgrade; they really are still very average compared to the best from Eventide, Strymon and Fractal. Maybe there should be an advanced mode for those of us who like to tweak. Its definitely more an evolution than a revolution I think for the next Helix.
I have to say a lot of respect has to be given to Line6 for holding to their flagship for nearly 10 years. I mean many companies would’ve done very minor changes with a ton of hype every 2-3 years just to sell a few more units. I think Line6 has a significantly superior unit in the works for this reason. They’ve resisted the minor tweaks in favor of dropping the next game changer. At least I hope so. The trickle down has been great. I love my POD Express.
The cost of manufacturing tech gets cheaper with time. In 2010, I paid 1500usd for a nice Dell XPS 13 8GB, 250GB hard drive. Today, you can find a Dell XPS 13 a hundred times better for the same 1500USD
The new Line 6 flagship should just bring more power to the table, better modeling, improve the design of that expression pedal, get rid of Variax stuff connections and stay away from touch screens or profiling. Both add to the cost and aren't needed when you have such intuitive UI and good modeling.
No better investment than one of those modelers. By the time you spend money on the basic pedals you would be close to spending as much anyway. I know because I have done it. I have an FM9 and wow, well worth it.
There is nothing worse for me than when I come across videos "Are Kemper, Helix, Quad Cortex still relevant in 2024", etc. I mean really, as if the technology has changed for the 360? I'm ready to go to a gig with only Tonex and not buy anything in about few years or more. I think we have become slaves to equipment.
Agreed. I think TH-cam is an echo chamber (digital or analogue lol?) where reviewers are constantly being sent the latest gear and we get to see it, get GAS and - if we have the money - likely buy a unit. Then a week later another bloody unit is the "game changer" and... dear gawd, it's just too much. I have the Tonex and Headrush MX5 as well as a bucketload of pedals from cheap to mid range. This is more than enough that, should I even suddenly become 20 again and go out touring, I can get every imaginable sound, tone and effect I could ever need. I like John's channel, enjoy his playing and thoughtful reviews, but I'm watching less and less YT guitar channels these days as they've become the QVC TV advertising channel for guitarists. I'm done now - I have all the gear I will ever need or want. We have reached a point where the gear is that good at even cheapish prices, unless you're a pro musician working all year long, it's just like Guitar Pokemon - gotta have 'em all.
Interesting. I didn't know that Analog Devices had released a new version of the SHARC, which apparently they have. I would have bet you a good chunk of my net worth that the new new new!!! Helix would actually run on a CPU, almost certainly and ARM CPU. That's what Korg did with their new wavetable + FM digital synths. They basically stuck a Raspberry Pi inside of keyboard case and wrote plugins for it. I should try to figure out what UA is dong with their pedals now. UA is definitely able to cross-compile the DSP code in their guitar pedals, since they are supporting them running natively on CPUs on both main consumer OS's. But I should try to figure out if they are putting embedded DSP chips in their pedals, like they do with their DSP enabled plugins, or if they caved and went CPU in those guitar pedals as well.
I'm not sure why people are so keen on jumping on the newest things. These modelers are designed to replicate okd gear and they nail it. They've been refined already and they have more features than ever. People just love to consume I think.
How much can you trust Line6 product support? Was near impossible to get Variax parts way before it went end of life. How many support centres do they have UK and Europe?
If Line 6 raises the price, they hopefully have a product that surpasses the FM9. I don’t think that’s going to happen. In the beginning they were the only top tier modeler without breaking the bank for an axe effect. Now they aren’t and there’s competition. Smart thing to do is come out with a more efficient Helix at a lower price point and like you said remove some I/O. I personally do use the spdif to route my audio back into the helix for re amping without needing a di. It then goes back through the signal chain through the preamps and into daw. I hope they don’t scrap these at least.
Guitar modelling/profiling etc is in the same place as mobile phones atm. All mobile phones are super expensive and its becoming harder and harder to justify buying a flagship each year as theyre all basically the same and most people have woken up to the fact that the improvements each update are minimal and not worth buying
At no point using my helix rack on stage or in a studio, at no point have I ever wanted it to do something I doesn't already. Best investment iv ever made.
Electronics pricing drops dramatically over time. Look at TV’s, cell phones, whatever. Processing power and digital memory costs have dropped exponentially from a few years ago. Once a company has developed a series of amp models and effects; the bulk of their R&D is already invested. Adding more should not cost all that much. A smart company will introduce a product without a bazillion amp and effects. Just cover the basics and price it accordingly. And they’ll sell a ton of them. A $2,000 product will always have a home, but a mighty small one.
One issue you missed out on is how quickly these modellers get out date and loose value. They cost a lot of money, but as soon as they bring out a new model the value drops drastically and often updates stop.Unlike tradition amps that tend to hold there value.
I am more worried that live music has not the appeal It had some years ago, live clubs are closing and we have a lot of gear collecting dust at home
Everything goes in circles, it will come back round 😊
It's not the music having no appeal. That's property developers and councils assisting them by regulating venues out of existence. The way of life that, whether it involves live music or not, revolves around the Ale house, Tavern, concert hall, Longhouse... is under attack and has been for thirty years.
@StephenAB23 doubt it. Any more than classical music will come back round. Guitar music will always be there, but will be increasingly niche. Kids have it too easy. They are accommodated at every turn and have nothing to be angry at. Half of them will never fall in love. Bleak? You betcha. No one my age or younger buys newspapers. Music will go the same way. It's only the 50 something doctors and lawyers who are keeping the industry going. And they won't be around much longer.
Yeah live music has not recovered, just like it ended my Career. COVID killed alot more than just Lives, it KILLED livelyHOOD.
Less competition 🙌
Call me old fashioned but nothing beats having your hand on the knob
Underrated comment
I 100% agree which is why I’ll never sell my tube amps. But tbh I play through headphones 90% of the time and my 100w amp tends to just make my office look pretty
@@Fnnggjji I’m a headphones guy also but still find myself reaching for it when I’m home alone
Well the TMP has a touch screen with 10 knobs. Each foot switch is also a rotary encoder knob, plus two more large main knobs on both sides of the screen.
Don't has more knobs in a more eloquent way than others.
The combo really is the best of the UI's!
Totally agree I’m 100% rely on digital gears especially Line 6, but I find myself prefer a knob on rotary switch instead of a slide bar thing in the Helix.
HX stomp with more processing power would be worthwhile
I just want to be able to use the polycapo with other stuff lol
Regardless of what some say, for what these modelers are designed to do (give you the sound of the amp after it’s processed) we are coming close to the edge of what we are capable of hearing.
I mean, pair almost any of these devices up with the Tone Master FR and you’re not losing much, record direct to interface and you’ll be very hard pressed to know what was actually used, thousands of A/B tests have proved that at this point.
Other than GAS, there’s not a huge reason to abandon gear you currently have. You can get restless and go back to a pedalboard using a Nano, ToneX, UA pedal or whatever, add a VP4 or 4 individual pedals of your choice and you’ll be at the same price point or higher of the FM9 or Helix and you won’t sound any better or worse.
It’s great to have all these options, I really don’t know what the next gen is going to do to tempt me away from what I already have.
I think, after my experience with the Boss GX-100 (only needing about a third of what it is truly capable of, even for the lesser modeler), pairing down the flagships, focusing on making them more user friendly for gigging musicians would be more appealing. If they could make things download-able, for example, like amp models, instead of selling a unit that comes loaded with a ridiculous amount of amp models the majority of which will never be used, the unit would be more flexible. The attractive part of the GX-100 to me was that it DID NOT have a million amp models, just a few tried and true models (out the 25 or 30 models it comes with, I only use 5.) It would be so great to be able to download only the ones you might need, saving all the processing power for effects, eq, etc. and keep the costs down as well maybe, in theory.
Yeah man I can't wait to twist the picture of a knob on the screen rather than a physical knob, it's so modern and advanced.
We've all been doing this for years in VSTs, where you been?
@@trev3971 Not everyone uses VST’s. At least for guitar effects. Many if us use them for mixing, sure, but we can also have controllers, so we don’t have to click much on the screen.
I’ve got everything I ever wanted in terms of gear. I can’t get ‘better’ but I’m always up for ‘different’.
I hate touch screens.
Touch screen is good for some things like reordering effects, but I wouldn't want a UI based around one. I'm sure there are things that will be added that we aren't even thinking of. One thing I would want is either Wifi or Bluetooth so you can wirelessly connect to an editor.
Helix Floor should make these changes - 1. Type C USB interface (the current one is doggy), 2. Non-Metal switches (metal one's rust and degrade) 3. Big Touch Screen (this is a given) 4. Amp capture ability (they all do this now a days) 5. A version without the onboard pedal (that will make it smaller) 6. Higher DSP (bigger chip) 7. A frame (body) that will last forever (again could be high quality plastic) 8. Some vocal specific effect (for example - feedback suppressor) - How many agree with this list? 🙂
Yes on everything except touchscreen, just another failure point
They could just cut the price by half and dominate the market for the next 30 years. Does anyone really "need" anything new?
They just knocked about a third off everything recently. I think most presume that indicates the last phase of these products but who knows.
@SerenaandAndrew we need a spider VI. The V is still awesome
So you aren’t just paying for the hardware, you are paying for the work to develop the product plus the ongoing support including free firmware updates.
The Bald Shredder' gets some of the most incredible tones ive ever heard. he uses the same Pod Farm he purchased almost 20 years ago, sounds as great as any of the TOTL modelers or tube amps . you should check him out if for no other reason than to prove to yourself that we have already had everything we need for decades now
I'm not going to speculate on what Line 6 may come up with next as a flagship that would "replace" the Helix, but my Helix floor is the perfect size for me. Smaller would mean less switches or getting them closer to each other which would diminish its usefulness for my case.
My workflow is to have one preset per song with generally 4 snapshots per presets (I have the snapshots in the bottom row and carefully selected individual effects in the top row. Some of my presets have 5 snapshots so I add one to the top row. This works well for me. Also, almost all my presets have 2 amps (one clean and one for crunch to high gain (generally the Revv Gen Red).
What I would like in a new Helix type flagship is amp models with all the controls of the real life version on the individual amps. The Placater Dirty gets close to that and it makes it very flexible. Also, clearly, some of the older models could benefit from being redone. I would also love 1x12, 2x12 and 4x12 cabs with G12H-75 Creamback speakers which I find is a somewhat glaring omission in the current Helix 3.71 firmware. I love my physical Revv 1x12 with that speaker in it and I also have a 1960A Marshall 4x12 with 2 H75 Creambacks and 2 V30s in X pattern. That cab sounds incredible.
Touch screen would be nice as well as a bigger screen but not a deal breaker for me.
More DSP power would certainly be a must for any upgraded or "replacement" devices for the current Helix/HX ones.
But I really have no idea what they will come up with. Hopefully they keep one new model with the Helix floor form factor. I love mine!
spdif is the most underrated thing on modelers
I keep hearing about it. I need to investigate what you can do. I use it in my studio to add more inputs to my DAW. Other than that I’m a caveman.
I use spdif when connecting my modeler, in my case an AxeFx2, to my audio interface. The idea is basically to avoid analog/digital conversions though the difference is quite negligible in most scenarios. But it also gives me some extra routing possibilities if I want to use my out analog for monitoring and spdif for the actual recording source.
If Behringer can price their new flagship Wing Rack mixing console at just the exact same price as the 12 years old X32 rack it replaces, so can line6 do for Helix's replacement.
Behringer lives in its own little universe however.
Don’t forget not all musicians play paid gigs. Church musicians in particular are significant purchasers and yet most play for free, and for the joy of it
Statistically that can’t be true here in the UK. I’m guessing in the Bible Belt in the US you’d be right.
Working in the live music industry I had the chance to geek out with many techs for pro guitarists and when the helix appears in a live tour scenario it's main selling point is the IO, both for options and flexibility. I doubt they are going to get rid of it, maybe to keep the price in check the LT minimalism (if we can call it that) will be the flagship floorboard, but we'll get the full experience in the rack unit and remote control or even have it expanded. I think they might "trim some fat" by going the touchscreen route and removing some knobs and buttons with all the hardware they require and the variax IO which, unless something moves into that front, is now officialy obsolete. I'm actually confident we'll see some additions, like maybe an embedded wireless unit of higher quality compared to the Pod Go experiment, and (in my dreams) a combo TS/XLR input like in the Quad Cortex instead of removing the MIC input as in the LT.
I honestly feel like the pod go is an amazing form factor for the helix to emulate. Helix 2.0 should definitely be smaller. Maybe 60 percent of its current size. Or maybe have a Helix “mini” option. Touchscreen is cool but I’ve gotten pretty used to the way the helix works.
I had a Kemper, basically spent all my time hunting for tones. I sold it, spent that money on UA Woodrow, Ruby, Dream and now the Enigma. I'm a happy camper, not looking back.
That's my fear with modelers. Option paralysis. Too much time messing around and tweaking rather than just finding a sound, going with it and then making it my own.
Isn't that basically the same thing? Now instead of hunting for tones on the Kemper, you're hunting for tones across multiple amp sim pedals.
I have the same 4 UAD pedals….couldn’t be happier 😁🤘
@@jnh73not only it's a lot easier to find tones in these (I use the Enigmatic), but also the feel is immensely superior. They almost feel like an amp, almost. But as they sound so good, you don't even think about it not being an amp.
I had the Helix for years, made loads of presets to never be able to find my sound, my thing. Always sound digital and didn't feel good to play.
I bought the Enigmatic, tried a couple stuff for two days, second day decides on my preset and now I barely change it. Sometimes I do little changes depending on the room, but nothing more. And it always sounds and feels good and mixes well with a lot of different sounds and genres/sound styles.
@@jnh73 No, I don't think it is even close. I basically bought really good and better than the Kemper can do amp tones of my favorite amps. Now instead of endlessly searching I just plug in my favorite amps and practice. I don't own all of them, I only bought what I like, if something new comes around, yeah sure maybe but from what I like to play right now, I don't need them.
I have Helix LT, so it is the stripped down version of Helix Floor. I don't care as much about the hardware. They could keep the unit pretty much as is but upgrade the DSP. I think the focus needs to be on the software and quality of amps and effects. I've built a board around my LT. Everything I'm doing now is to extend the capacity or improve tone quality. Those are the areas any modeling company should focus on.
I was a tube amp guy for a long time. I purchased a used HX stomp 5 years ago on a whim after my daughter was born. To my surprise, I still use the stomp daily. My hand wired amps are collecting dust. When the helix successor comes out, I’ll either sell off a few tube amps for the new flagship or pick up a helix LT at half the cost of the successor. I think there is still a lot of mileage left in the Helix ecosystem.
I sold my tube amps, some were hand wired because they were gathering dust too.
As a home hobbyist who records, but also who will play out occasionally, I’m tapped out on prices!! The stomp XL would be the format I would move to if I were leading Line 6. Increase the overall processing power, but also allow more freedom with the user and how they use that processing power, e.g. number of blocks useable, etc.
It’s a good point but isn’t an overpowered stomp xl just an LT in disguise? And the price , after the recent corrsction(reduction) isn’t a huge jump). They have built such a differentiated market that’s hard to improve one without undermining the other a bit. I love my used LT but it would be nice if it was smaller. I do miss the size and weight of the PodGo.
The way forward is to develop a different speaker sim tech for live.
Capture or replicate the sound of different speakers without cabinets and room reflections and traditional studio recording chain which are very coloured. Because what continues to suck is hearing a recording of a speaker cabinet played back through a speaker cabinet.
It’s why the Boss Katana is so relentlessly popular, even though it is digital modelling, it is actually an amp with a guitar amp power section and guitar amp speaker.
It’s why the Line 6 Catalyst never challenged it, all the demos of the Catalyst sounded like a recording of an amp speaker coming out of a speaker coming down a microphone and out of whatever speaker you are listening on.
Modellers are amazing for recording, because that’s what they are recreating, but live it’s always some kind of compromise (unless you use in ears).
If I were a big company I’d be designing something modular. Think like the base unit has the screen, main controller, 2 foot switches and processing for 6-8 high quality blocks. Then the physical body supports slotting in extra modules that each add 2 more foot switches and processing for 2-4 more blocks. A module for an expression pedal. A module for microphone input. Etc. The whole thing needs to be built around a very low latency high throughout bus that connects the modules, so you don’t add latency as you add modules. Looper module. Etc. the sky is the limit and hobbyist can get in for cheaper and upgrade as they get hooked on the ecosystem.
I think I said it on another video but…
Hx stomp XL size with helix processing, iPad Bluetooth compatible editor and built in wireless… would sell like an oggy on a Sunday!
I would love HX edit on iPad and Wi-Fi updates. Not sure what the holdup is
The thing that I like the most about the helix is the fact that it does have all thouse in and outputs and the varaix input. And therefore the amount of routing options available. Though ive aways been a line 6 user. Taking them away would just make it just like everything else. The inputs are crutial to what I do with instrument switching, live.
I would like a new HX Stomp with real tubes and transformers inside. That would be the perfect Stomp, man...
Let L6 cook man.
If anyone is giving us options for hardware across all price ranges, packing tons of value into their units, continuing to support their modeling platform with updates, and giving us the full modeler in a plugin, it's L6.
We don't *have* to have the very latest / most expensive / most advanced to make music.
John would still sound superb on an early Gen POD.
I'm a fan of buying gear that is a few years old (but still good) and not worrying about running with the latest and 'greatest'.
I think the general idea of a flagship, which you hinted at in this video, is that it acts like a big neon sign for your brand. Companies don't usually shift the same volume of their flagship model, but they have to have one because without one they are at risk of looking like a minor player in the global market, and that perception could cost them millions of $.
The next Line6 flagship product will most probably offer more and better of everything. Like Fractal they are known for pushing the boundaries of what can be achieved with electronic music, and they aren't going to stop trying to do that just because we can already create great tones. If companies did that we'd all still be breaking down on the M1 in a lorry overloaded with rack gear 😆
I expect the next Line6 flagship pedalboard to have probably 2 or 3x the DSP, a touchscreen for the drag & drop routing part of the UI, a tougher case and knobs, a revamped UI that is more intuitive than the sliders for every parameter, probably more like real world pedals/amps (that's what most guitarists prefer as far as I know), best in class synth engine and pitch tracking, improvements to the looper in terms of recording time and more customisable functionality, vocal processing, amp capture, vst hosting??? - I better stop because this is getting silly...
I’m How long has fender been making the deluxe reverb? Decades upon decades. It has been relatively the same platform. With that I think it reasonable to just leave the platform pretty much the same. Maybe tweak some things to make it more streamline. Beyond that there really is no reason to change anything. The power this units have is pretty incredible when you take time to think about it.
Yes....all valid points. Been wondering where it can go next myself.
My latest solution… Quilter DirectAmp with my favorite pedals including HX FX. I got rid of my Helix, HX Stomp, Kemper and Fractal AX8. I’m very happy with my rig.
I the next Helix should be something inbetween the full Helix and the Hx stomp in form factor. Maybe a bit smaller than the Helix LT? Always felt the full blown Helix was too much, though I do dig the scribble strips...
The LT is awesome, and a good bit cheaper now, but there used to be no denying it’s big. If you make a smaller version though you presumably kill the LT and maybe the stomp at the same time. Might not be a bad idea if the orcs is right.
I always wanted a helix in the from factor of the HX Effects with an optional expression pedal that could somehow be attached either side if required.
I would like to see a more powerful Stomp XL, with scribble strips, and the option to load amp profiles, alongside the modelled amps. Also a Line 6 powered THR type amp.
Nope, I didn't buy the full helix. I own the helix lt. I was looking for something smaller and easier to tweek at a gig. So I purchased a Headrush core and am very happy with it. I'm done with modelers for awhile. I don't see such a drastic change to make me want to go out buy another one. We'll see in about 5 - 7 years.
I've scrapped digital modelers and gone back to a tube head and cab w/ a few pedals. I'm just playing at home now. no gigging
Its hard to create an all-in-one solution that works for the professional musician, that isnt completely overkill for the weekend warrior or bedroom rocker. When I think about it, my ideal pedal would be something of a blend between the Helix, the Quad cortex, and a Seymour Duncan power stage. Take the best parts of all these units and you would end up having the capability to power a cab from one output, while feeding XLR to front of house, the ability to capture your pedals and amplifiers and having a sturdy functional expression pedal fpr volume / wah / etc. make sure that it takes a standard IEC power cable and omg take my money! Right now if i want the functionality ive mentioned, i need Multi seperate devices and its a mess to organize them, a nightmare to connect at rehearsal and gigs.
All top tier modelers already sound indistinguishable from a mic”d amp cab , there’s not much left to improve
I think, the manufacturers of this stuff will try to keep the prices in the range of today or rather tend to bring them down. One should always consider that electronics have become cheaper and cheaper over time and at the same time multipled their power. The major influence of inflation comes from the salaries of employees,. Be it in development or service. But also here you will see a significant increase in efficiency. Service will be done in future more and more by chat bots and development does always win via economies of scale. This ist something Line6 has already taken to a very high level by producing devices across all price segments by using more or less the same pieces of software, sometimes more, sometimes less like for the POD Express. The latter is a great marketing tool to attract more musicians to the modeling world. So, no concerns from my side.
I think brands are now branching towards the smaller footprint pedals because that is really what most people need. I would say more than 50% of people who own a full Helix/Axe FX/Quad Cortex/etc. are actually using relatively simple chains and only a few presets for gigging, which you could totally do with something like an HX Stomp/HX Stomp XL/FM3/etc.
Also, now that Hotone have announced they are adding captures to the Ampero II (even including the Ampero II Stomp, apparently), I think it might become a real alternative to the main brands.
The Ampero Stage II is awesome and is everybit as good as the top tier modellers if not better for hafl the cost. Yes it already has capture tech and it lacks nothing. Im surprised this thing has not blown up more than it has. Its litterally the best modeller on the market right now.
This is it.
I have a NUX MG-300. I play mostly rock and metal. So... Exactly five presets - two distorted tones for rhythm and for leads, two clean tones for rhythm and for leads, one bass tone for when I play the bass. I'm not a shoegaze player, I don't need a million tones. Five presets that I created years ago. That's it.
@@Tigermaster1986 Yup and dont need to sound exactly like others. I need my tone nothing else matters so I dont need to capture anything. The tones are already there in the modeller. They are plenty good enough.
I have an HX Stomp and I've been seriously considering selling it and buying a used ACS1. I occasionally use the on board effects but I have ridiculous amount of pedals (I don't have a problem, I can quit any time I want) and I use the Deluxe Reverb model most of the time. It's nice to have a Memory Man or a Roland Space Echo right there when I want it but I can get nearly identical sounds out of my RV-6 and DD-8 if I need to. I can imagine a future where those pared back, stomp box sized modellers are the standard daily drivers and the full featured modellers are a luxury, like a Bugatti.
Aside from what it did (which btw was awesome) - I loved the concept of the Retrowreck a while back. While we all love the do everything devices - and it's easy to feel like giving you less is like paying to turn on your heated seats you already bought - I definitely think the interface is improved with a dedicated knob interface. Honestly - the only time my HX Stomp XL leaves the JTM45 model is when I plug in my nylon string guitar.
Maybe a helix head with tubes that's designed to power speaker cabs and have a smaller foot control that's designed to inergrate with stomp boxes boxes kinda like a spider but done right
My next upgrade would be a helix that's smaller, with a bigger touch screen, remove the volume pedal base, adjustable footswitches like QC, more DSP, capture that can be done live, preferably while running the full patch behind it, more amps/effects. Basically I want everything known to man before I need another modeler. And it's ket that it's smaller so I can still run analog drives and whatever other pedals without taking up the entire stage. Some sort of built in wireless IEM would also be sweet but now I'm getting greedy, maybe?
I think the future is Tonex style but like you can do paid for add ons. So you get basic updates but you also can pay for like extra updated features. You would be able to have basic effects but you could also pay for more specific effect models. Idk… that seems like the most user friendly idea.
If L6 just wanted to slap a "new flagship" label on the same old thing with a cosmetic update and some bigger chips, they'd have done it way before now. What would I like? Bigger chips, huge touch screen, extra MIDI buttons for DAW/Ableton/Playback, maybe Bluetooth in for rehearsing, possibly onboard recording to aid with patch creation, maybe Dante out, additional controller sends (maybe Bluetooth) for more button and pedal controllers, and all the things that I haven't thought of but which will make it last another 10 years. This is a modeler, not a capture device, but if they want to dive down that rabbit hole, how about an AI-type feature that analyzes a song clip and creates a basic patch to start programming from? Maybe the ability to pull guitar out of a song so you can play along with it (either the stems w/o the guitar or the guitar part to study)? I still find my Helix fun to program, intuitive, easy to gig with, and extremely powerful.
Yep, AI analysis of your favorite artists will be the next step with these amp modeler’s.
I think Helix could have 3 or 4 USB-C ports to receive MIDI from a tablet, Mic, Variax, and a USB digital out for recording. That would all be smaller and more versatile than reserving the large purpose-built ports. The other major thing I'm looking at is the foot switches. I've had two sets of switches go bad, including a full switch daughterboard replaced at an official service center.
At some point, you get option paralysis. What I have experienced is that at some point, you home in on 2 to 3 great sounds, add some options, and call it done. I'm actually debating on keeping the Helix LT I recently picked up, or swap it for a Boss GX-100. Im personally like having a wash/ wah option on board. I know the Helix can do more and has received a lot of updates, but at what point is enough just that? The Tonex One is a good example of something that might be enough for a lot of people.
The main thing that a "flagship" unit offers is consistency and stability vs using a pedalboard with a compact modeler or capture device. As long as those features don't get lost in the advancement of the tech, then I'm for it. However, I suspect that at a certain point, the stability will take the hit in favor of saving a buck in production as the space becomes more and more competitive.
A big part of a decision to buy into a modelling platform is about the track record of the company - because you’re buying the product for the long haul.
H90 is a great case in point - it’s a lot of money yes. But look at how Eventide developed the H9. I felt comfortable buying a product that was kinda not totally finished at launch because I knew they could and would sort it. And already it’s a brilliant product IMO & one I’ll use for years.
Line6 can trade off its amazing track record with a new product in the same way.
And this is where, despite lots of good features & a footprint that really appealed to me, the Quad Cortex didn’t make sense. And I continue to think long term it will fail to realise its full potential because of development limitations.
Also agree with the comment that it’s the parlous state of live music that is a bigger worry/barrier. That’s the pipeline issue, not the tech.
I would like to see digital line-level guitar gear companies begin to coordinate with existing gear so people have a real choice. Why not have a piece of hardware that contains a high quality attenuator that can deal with a new ( or old), valve amp and bring the user's personal amp sound to a point where it can have digital ( time based) effects, and analogue compressors and overdrives blended with the signal and then sent to an onstage FR FR or FOH mixer or anything else the user needs. This would necessitate abandoning part of the existing business model ( no pun) for something, or anything else that the guitarist might want. When I began playing, everyone was forced into having a 100 watt Marshall and quad ( even if you preferred using something like a Fender Deluxe combo) Now we are coerced into buying line-level processors that are based on headphone listening rather than hearing an amp in the air of the room. We seem ,always, to be at the mercy of industry investment, rather than the free market place of choice. Either way it is not what most of us that remain unhypnotised want or need. This is not a call for going into the past, because that was similarly restrictive to the amateur or professional guitarist. Whatever new digital products come out, they are likely to be based on whatever they think they can get away with, according to what they've sold in the past.
I’m not worried a bit. A ‘real’ amp with analog effects still rules… and most audiences don’t care either way. So simply make the choice that works for you. Back in the day I was using Marshall stacks. Now I choose among a trio of 12” combos, one vintage Fender and one Marshall DSL - and one Boss Katana MkII modeler. The Katana does not sound as good as either of the others. But tweaked correctly it sounds good enough, and the plethora of built-in digital effects means I don’t have to bother with the pedalboard. That’s all good news for my 60+ year old back.
I think the next thing needs to be customization. If you can purchase a processor that's modular and expandable it'll be a game changer. Imaging buying something like the POD express or Cortex Nano and then being able to expand the number of assignable foot switches you can add to it, almost like an old school pedalboard. Some people don't need 8 foot switches, others might want 16. I'm still waiting for someone to develop an expression based tremolo that I can clip on my guitar so I can stop using analog trem bridges so my guitar will stay in tune.
I’m still going with processing power should double and become cheaper every year, and these units are using older chips that have been redesigned for music gear, keeping flagships at 1500$ shouldn’t be too difficult, even with inflation. Great video love your playing, keep sharing.
Upgrade some stuff like the chip for more power and change some cosmetic stuff like adding a bunch of different colors to choose from. Maybe change the design/shape of it a little bit. If line 6 wanted it to be, the helix could be what iPhone is to apple. Just over all keeping things simple with just cosmetic changes and more power.
Its a good point, and I would add its also a problem statement for Line6/Helix in particular, since they were a race to market share early on, but now they are the dinosaur of the competitive bunch. Not only does the next iteration have to cost more potentially just because of inflation, they need a major update in design to pair with that which potentially drives cost up outside of the inflationary adjustment. It probably accounts for a delay in releasing a v2 like product. Line 6 is sort of in a spot with it this issue specifically because they are 10 years deep/old in that product. Trouble with tech speed in guitar realm really.
I just want the pod go but with customizable signal path!
Keep the dsp limitation just let me add whatever I want within those constraints
More processing DSP and models of boutique effects that in 2015 might have been considered avant garde but are now more mainstream (Earthquaker, Chase Bliss, Hologram, etc.).
Even as old as the Helix is it still sounds great. I think the only thing it lacks is power. Maybe more power and a touch screen would be killer. Possibly a smaller footprint. The only thing I hate about the Helix is the built in pedal. I don't even use it. I use an external pedal when I rarely use one. It seems that a lot of the effects makers are going to ARM DSP processors as opposed to the Analog Devices style ones. A friend of mine who is a programmer told me that the ARM processors take a lot less power to run. That's what's in the the Fractal VP4 and all the new Strymon pedals. The big Eventide units have been using them for years.
For me, since I’m using the Variax VDI input, I would prefer the possibility of simply paying for an update CPU and its installation on my Helix Floor. I know, it won’t happen, but it’s still free to dream…
I think the pricing is fine based on line6 proving they invest heavily on free updates. However the issue for me is that they are trying to be a solution for all price points. Whilst i understand this, i dont want to be spending £1500-£2000 on a brand that feels better known down at the toy/more affordable end of the industry. If im spending that money, i do want to feel good about the brand as well as the product because I can with other brands
Not everything has gone up in price. Fractal has been able to keep the price pretty steady. FM3 launched at the same price of AX8, and yes, they paired down the amount of switches.
Regarding gigs, is kinda funny, I used to get paid $50-$100ish around '88-'94 and I've done gigs recently at the same price. $100/gig wasn't enough to live on in 88, I can't believe the price hasn't at least doubled. (Drinks have definitely more than doubled in price)
I have an FM9 but often play Variax guitars. I wish I could find a way to make changes on the guitar without buying a helix or an LT. I love the helix stuff but buying another unit isn’t in my budget these days.
I personally use the expression pedal extensively, and all the buttons on Helix. I'd have to really swallow hard if they removed the onboard pedal in a new model for the sake of making it smaller.
If you look at other new modelers that have recently came out about 1700.00 is the tops and flagships average 1500-1700.
You have to remember electronics come down over time because technology gets cheaper as it becomes more common and cheaper to produce even as it gets more powerful.
So ai would think the next Helix will be around 1700.00
My question is what are companies going to be able to do to set their devices apart? We're reaching a point where a lot of the devices in any given price point basically do the same things give or take a feature. Right now I'm looking over options for a floorboard type unit and the deciding factor for me isn't really the amp/fx list or necessarily the in/out set (most floodboards have so many ins and outs, more than I'll use on pub gig), its the size and weight. In the year 2024 you have to honestly try as hard as you can to get bad tone. If someone can't get a good sound out of any of the modelers or plugins out there, that's on them not the gear.
I still love my helix like a 15 year old happy marriage. The upgrade would have to be tremendous. Im not sure how they could do that?
32 bit now so 64 will be next. Simplicity in operation will always be nice. I can tell/hear when a person is solo using 32bit like Kemper and the likes, but not in the mix. I like the sound but at some point, the end result of tone maybe sounding over processed almost synthesizer sounding maybe. You know they will come up with better ADA converters and so on. I remember when CD players first came out and the music sounded thin and sterile, and it too was the ADA's and they have come a long way in sounding more and more analog. So, at some point it will be the heat factor like computers, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. The interaction between a guitar and a cranked-up tube amp. Think, if we started with digital back in the 50s-60s and we just got into tube power now what would we be talking about? Wet dry wet.. lol
touch screens are nice if it weren't for my hands keeps sweating the moment it sensed a little heat.
I gig happily with a nice tube amp and some pedals, and have many other more important things to worry about in the world. Expensive digital amp modellers can take care of themselves.
I think, changes will come in terms of size or something "more" easy to use, and this is not only for Line 6, because all this stuff are basing their sounds on analog technology created on 50s or 60s...maybe 80s if you are talking about stereo stuffs or more complex algorithms (delays, reverbs, mods, etc) like Eventide or TC Electronics, so for these and many other reasons, those companies will not reinvent the wheel, the only thing they can do is to improve the experience, as you said
The hardware of the Helix is fine, but some upgrades could be made I guess. Yes more powerful processors would be useful but most of the upgrades need to be in the software not the hardware. EG the Amp sims need to feel more alive under fingers like the Fractal or profilers. A profiling system should be a must as its now pretty mainstream. The FX need a serious upgrade; they really are still very average compared to the best from Eventide, Strymon and Fractal. Maybe there should be an advanced mode for those of us who like to tweak. Its definitely more an evolution than a revolution I think for the next Helix.
I have to say a lot of respect has to be given to Line6 for holding to their flagship for nearly 10 years. I mean many companies would’ve done very minor changes with a ton of hype every 2-3 years just to sell a few more units. I think Line6 has a significantly superior unit in the works for this reason. They’ve resisted the minor tweaks in favor of dropping the next game changer. At least I hope so. The trickle down has been great. I love my POD Express.
Helix is fantastic, the only thing that they need to improve on is the amp models and stock cabs. Just like the fractal audio system.
Do you still get latency or gap when you switch between patches on today’s processors?
The cost of manufacturing tech gets cheaper with time. In 2010, I paid 1500usd for a nice Dell XPS 13 8GB, 250GB hard drive. Today, you can find a Dell XPS 13 a hundred times better for the same 1500USD
I'm not sure inflation and pricing work the way they're often talked about in TH-cam videos trying to drive interactions.
The new Line 6 flagship should just bring more power to the table, better modeling, improve the design of that expression pedal, get rid of Variax stuff connections and stay away from touch screens or profiling. Both add to the cost and aren't needed when you have such intuitive UI and good modeling.
No better investment than one of those modelers. By the time you spend money on the basic pedals you would be close to spending as much anyway. I know because I have done it. I have an FM9 and wow, well worth it.
There is nothing worse for me than when I come across videos "Are Kemper, Helix, Quad Cortex still relevant in 2024", etc. I mean really, as if the technology has changed for the 360? I'm ready to go to a gig with only Tonex and not buy anything in about few years or more. I think we have become slaves to equipment.
Agreed. I think TH-cam is an echo chamber (digital or analogue lol?) where reviewers are constantly being sent the latest gear and we get to see it, get GAS and - if we have the money - likely buy a unit. Then a week later another bloody unit is the "game changer" and... dear gawd, it's just too much. I have the Tonex and Headrush MX5 as well as a bucketload of pedals from cheap to mid range. This is more than enough that, should I even suddenly become 20 again and go out touring, I can get every imaginable sound, tone and effect I could ever need.
I like John's channel, enjoy his playing and thoughtful reviews, but I'm watching less and less YT guitar channels these days as they've become the QVC TV advertising channel for guitarists. I'm done now - I have all the gear I will ever need or want. We have reached a point where the gear is that good at even cheapish prices, unless you're a pro musician working all year long, it's just like Guitar Pokemon - gotta have 'em all.
@@martin-1965 Well said, mister
Interesting. I didn't know that Analog Devices had released a new version of the SHARC, which apparently they have. I would have bet you a good chunk of my net worth that the new new new!!! Helix would actually run on a CPU, almost certainly and ARM CPU. That's what Korg did with their new wavetable + FM digital synths. They basically stuck a Raspberry Pi inside of keyboard case and wrote plugins for it. I should try to figure out what UA is dong with their pedals now. UA is definitely able to cross-compile the DSP code in their guitar pedals, since they are supporting them running natively on CPUs on both main consumer OS's. But I should try to figure out if they are putting embedded DSP chips in their pedals, like they do with their DSP enabled plugins, or if they caved and went CPU in those guitar pedals as well.
I'm not sure why people are so keen on jumping on the newest things. These modelers are designed to replicate okd gear and they nail it. They've been refined already and they have more features than ever. People just love to consume I think.
Interesting topic!
How much can you trust Line6 product support? Was near impossible to get Variax parts way before it went end of life. How many support centres do they have UK and Europe?
How much better can modelers possibly sound doe?
I think Ampero just did it Ampero II. That thing pretty much blowes everything away for half the cost. It is what everyone else isnt.
I hope they add capturing abilities to the new gen
The Cordified Bon Jovi song is beautiful.
I put together a cost of living crisis pedalboard. AUD$250. Sounds great.
If Line 6 raises the price, they hopefully have a product that surpasses the FM9. I don’t think that’s going to happen. In the beginning they were the only top tier modeler without breaking the bank for an axe effect. Now they aren’t and there’s competition. Smart thing to do is come out with a more efficient Helix at a lower price point and like you said remove some I/O. I personally do use the spdif to route my audio back into the helix for re amping without needing a di. It then goes back through the signal chain through the preamps and into daw. I hope they don’t scrap these at least.
Guitar modelling/profiling etc is in the same place as mobile phones atm. All mobile phones are super expensive and its becoming harder and harder to justify buying a flagship each year as theyre all basically the same and most people have woken up to the fact that the improvements each update are minimal and not worth buying
I use a tc eclectic G system with real amps and I’ve never been happier. I think it’s gear over load, didn’t we buy things to stop buying things?
John, please do a review on the Quilter DirectAmp. It’s a great piece of gear.
Alright Cordy, spill it. What do you know :)
At no point using my helix rack on stage or in a studio, at no point have I ever wanted it to do something I doesn't already. Best investment iv ever made.
Electronics pricing drops dramatically over time. Look at TV’s, cell phones, whatever. Processing power and digital memory costs have dropped exponentially from a few years ago. Once a company has developed a series of amp models and effects; the bulk of their R&D is already invested. Adding more should not cost all that much. A smart company will introduce a product without a bazillion amp and effects. Just cover the basics and price it accordingly. And they’ll sell a ton of them. A $2,000 product will always have a home, but a mighty small one.
One issue you missed out on is how quickly these modellers get out date and loose value. They cost a lot of money, but as soon as they bring out a new model the value drops drastically and often updates stop.Unlike tradition amps that tend to hold there value.
Give me a modernised Vox Tonelab SE and I'd be happy. Simple, straight forward, like an amp.
Pls... L6 just make triple DSP Helix II in the QC form factor (dimensions), with 6-8 footswitches and the current UI...