Should riders be required to wear motorcycle gear? - S1 E9
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- Highside / Lowside - Should riders be required to wear motorcycle gear?
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How much gear is the right amount of gear? Here at RevZilla, we sure have a passion for it, but everyone has their own take on what’s truly essential on a ride. Join Lemmy, Spurgeon, and Joe for a discussion about all things moto gear: ATGATT, helmets, riding styles, and more. There’s a lot we can’t control out on two wheels, but we can choose our gear, and everyone has their priorities. Ride safe out there!
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Great episode, but I feel you missed a viewpoint which would have been worth mentioning.
What about the emergency services who pick up the peices after you crash with no gear? And the cost to society IF you were killed or injured because of the lack of gear.
deadlyrasberry totally agree. The same mentality has caused the worst measles outbreak since widespread vaccination.
Can i make a suggestion about this podcast? It would be nice if it were on it's own channel that way when we sub we dont get a bunch of gear review vids when we are subbed for this.
I agree this needs to be revisited. With all respect to the views of Triple Titans of Gear. Somebody who is ATGATT should have been on the couch to represent.
ATGATT forever for myself. But no judgement on others.
I second that
Me too, but I’m ashamed to say I judge a little too.
Hard not to. See a guy in T-shirt, shorts, and flip flops and I cringe. None of my business, but I could not get on a bike and ride like that.
@@XRedJar I'm kind of middle ground on this. I wear a denim jacket, boots, jeans, gloves, and a helmet, but I don't necessarily feel the need to wear hard point reinforced jeans, ce rated boots, and an AR1000 jacket with ce level 2 elbow shoulder and back plates 24/7. Were I to live in a more populated area I might see more of a need to invest in better protective gear
@@XRedJar to me it's like watching another dude get kicked in the nuts. It doesn't actually affect you but you know how it feels or can imagine how it feels.
I’m an emergency responder and have been to lots of motorcycle crashes. I have seen atgatt reduce injuries and possibly save lives. But there is no better piece of gear than your brain. Pay attention to what is going on and don’t ride stupid.
Best comment here. Use your brain and if not, Darwinism takes hold. Everything is a risk, but how you think about that risk and go about it either exponentially impacts the consequence negatively or medigates it.
This. I constantly see people in cars, on bikes, and just walking around with absolutely no idea what's going on around them. Pay a-f***ing-ttention and be cognizant of your surroundings.
I have to agree with you. There are countless videos on YT of sport bikers racing up and down the highways at 100+ per hour and doing wheelies with full gear on. On hot days when I go cruising on my Harley I am dressed only in regular jeans, a tank top, and leather gloves and boots and maybe a half helmet (not always) if it isn't too hot. However, I don't speed or do wheelies and ride very defensively and have successfully been doing this for 47 years. IMO I am safer than the fully armored kids on sport bikes are.
Yes, but, your brain won't protect you from a cager who is texting while driving and slams into you at a stoplight. Just sayin'....
@@donaldsutton1846 Actually your brain (and skills) can indeed protect you from motorists doing the unexpected; but probably not if you're speeding as so many motorcyclists are. I NEVER exceed the speed limit unless it is to accelerate out of a dangerous situation.
Lemmy avoiding questions defeats the purpose of the show.
I plead the 5th ... I think Lemmy ,meant he does not want to even discuss it because it's every persons personal choice and Nun Ya business..
@ZLA Lemmy Yes I thought you sounded Sarcastic when you said you don't want to talk about it.. Then I thought you were trying to make the point that you think people should be able to chose what they wear themselves. I wear a helmet 99% of the time gloves 20% of the time and sturdy shoes almost always .. And now i have some cheap mesh motocross armor for the days it's so hot I can only bear a t-shirt which was many days last summer but so far almost always have to wear a jacket this year..
@ZLA Lemmy Ummmm ......Russell Westbrook? Is that you? :)
Andy Byrd since Lemmy doesn’t wonna answer they should kick him out and bring Anthony in
Lemmy "asks" questions he doesn't "answer" questions. That is all.
Your beards from right to left are like the beard scale of difficulty.
Where do you think they got the idea from?
This is the best comment ever.
Nice! Good eye
Jessica Hansen that’s amazing
Dad set out on a 3 mile ride around the block, gearless. Hit a deer on a gravel-on-tar road, peeled his face off, shredded his arms, and got a t.b.i.. Mom spent 5 months by his side in the hospital then died after taking care of him at home for 6 weeks. I've spent the last 6 years changing his diapers...had to leave my whole life behind to move back to take care of him. A helmet would have made all the difference and kept him from becoming an invalid. It's not just your life you're risking.
I ride almost every day, not atgatt, but never without a helmet. I'm not going out like a chump from catching a june bug in the face.
A hard thing to go through...its one thing to focus on the rights of the individual but there is almost always a price to be paid by others.
🤔More -ppl- *riders* oughta hear this story. That's sum heavy shit.
Not sure the appropriate condolence, since it's not a "loss" per se
But yeah - condolences.
1) I definitely don't think anyone should be required to wear anything aside from what would prevent an indecent exposure charge on or off a motorcycle. 2) As someone who about 5 weeks ago had a sedan pull out in front of me while I was going 45, and was catapulted 50 feet onto the pavement.... I think you're crazy to ride on the street without at least a helmet, if not an armored jacket. I'd be 110% dead right now if my now cracked and scraped helmet hadn't been between me and the pavement. Further i'd be missing all the skin from my right arm (along with some well done tattoos) if I hadn't been wearing a jacket.
Again, do you. If you wanna blaze down the highway in your banana hammock, go for it. However, as someone who has been in a "should be dead" collision, I personally won't go without ever.
Wow, I'm glad you're okay. Be safe, despite the d*heads on other vehicles.
@@felipe-nt-d Thanks! Nothing a bit of titanium attaching my bones together couldn't fix :-p Unfortunately, i'm afraid my season is over, since my bike is in 5,000 pieces (totaled that car though!). I'll hopefully be back next Spring, but everyone definitely needs to keep their head on a swivel. I consider myself very aware of my surroundings on a bike, but there are just some things you can't avoid.
That's something i didn't consider. I paid good money for my bad tattoo and i don't want to have it ripped off. But i also wear armour so
@@phillip2169 hah yea, i've seen road rash scarred tattoos before. It's a sad thing...
@@Chasing.Adventure glad you're ok. glad the car was totaled. just yesterday i saw 2 riders (who flew past me earlier in the day) on the side of the road, laid out flat with the police and a crowd looking over them, waiting for the ambulance. he and his woman slammed into the concrete divider. i didn't get a good look because i was driving 2 up with my girl, but i caught a glimpse of him and saw blood. my girl got a good look and saw blood all over him and his woman twisted up about 2 feet from him. they both had tank tops on but helmets. i'm with you: wear what you want; only you live with the consequences. many years ago i had my own collision with a car (totaled bike, ambulance ride, stitches, separated shoulder) and since then go with gear unless it's to the local pizzeria but ALWAYS with helmet, boots and gloves (i love my hands and feet). anway, hope you heal well and get back on 2 wheels soon.
I’m a Paramedic and ride daily. I’ve seen people die miserable at work, happy at home, woke up dead, crashes in cars and bikes. We get hurt and we die it’s part of life. Wear what you want.
Doesnt mean you have to assist with the unforeseen or inevitable. Gear is not meant to stop death per say but, it can prevent some injuries that can cause it. A PARAMEDIC!!?WOW!! Maybe job security is your biggest concern?
@@ralphaelconfer9719 Working in the medical field does not have a requirement that you be a big government boot licker. It's just heavily implied.
Ralphael Confer I had my gear on fell at low speed 1st gear leaving a stop sign while turning. Tore my clavicle from my scapula. Gear doesn’t equal safety.
I get what you're saying Elijah but wearing safety gear is a broader topic than it being about a few individuals.There is also gear that can be worn as to how you ride (experienced or inexperienced). I had that same fall and injury (stuck throttle from a stopped position/laid it down) But, I continue to wear gear...not for me but for the reasons I spoke of earlier. Plus, it truly does releave some anxiety to be covered. Hope you're better!
Woke up dead?
I'm against more laws, and statism, so no, people should not be required by law to wear gear, and the government has no business with how people should protect themselves.
I am ATGATT, though.
Stupid seat belt laws.
So should the legal requirements of seat belts and air-bags be removed from cars? Or is your stance an intellectually inconsistent one?
AT2 Productions Seat belts and air bags should be included in cars, but wearing them should not be a law.
But if you expected either the Gov via it's health services like here in NZ, where it's free if you have an accident then I think it's fair for them to mandate minimum, which here is just a helmet, you can right naked if you are stupid enough or proud enough. If you have to have personal insurance in your country then I think they can either require you to wear protective gear or get you to pay higher premiums. Only time I ever rode without a helmet was in US in a Nat Park and it ended up costing me 47 stitches in the head, 5 broken bones and 2 snapped tendons in left arm, her fault, admitted it on tape, she paid all costs or should I say her insurance did. I also got a personal payout from her insurance company. here in NZ that cannot happen we have a no fault system and even tourists get free medical for accidents, heart attacks etc....I prefer our system but loved the cash payout I got...LOL. Full Face helmet for me, boots jacket and gloves as first thing you do in a crash is put your hands down...But I do love the way the US still has personal choice and not letting the Gov to tell you what to do.....
@@colin3150 Sorry about the crash dude, but your last sentence is what makes the US a great place. The problem with any governmental entity making a law (we're doing this for your own good) is that when you give an inch, they'll end up taking a yard or more. 📏
With the number of drivers distracted by their cellphones these days, I don't know why anyone wouldn't wear all the gear.
I think the European debate is conditioned by free at the point of use healthcare. If you're expecting society to pick up the tab for your rehabilitation, society gets a right to have a say in whether you wear a helmet. Would be interesting to hear your views on whether insurers (in a US context) should be allowed to put exclusions in for people who don't wear a helmet, for instance. The slippery slope argument is interesting too. I can see how it might work that way; France has mandated gloves, and dabbled with hi vis for instance. But the UK introduced mandatory helmet laws in the 1980s and hasn't shown any signs of adding other requirements since. I'm enjoying highside/lowside. Thank you for taking the time to do it.
yep, that's the way I see it. People say that they are taking the risk but our laws in the US say other wise. If your vehicle touches another vehicle even if it was not your fault you are responsible for all damages and cost.
Government services are not "free". Every resident of those countries was forced to pay for that healthcare. I don't hear anyone proposing that fatties who haven't exercised in decades should have to pay for their own angioplasties. If you want to price health insurance like life insurance, go for it. More money in my pocket. Until then though, I'm going to expect my motorcycle, ski, bicycle, etc wreck to be covered. Especially since I haven't had a medical expense in 25 years.
Hi Jellybiscuit, thank you for your reply. Yes, "free-at-the-point-of-use" is a term used to describe the concept of social insurance, whereby we all pay taxes but then people get treatment (the point of use) without getting a personal bill. Generally all these systems come with caveats (rationing and waitlisting for non-critical conditions being the most common). As I'm sure you know, that also happens in the USA, where rationing is inevitable even with insurance (e.g. you can't just buy yourself onto the transplant list and you can't get on a transplant list at all if you engage in risky behaviours like smoking). I suppose my point is that, for private insurance models, where certain risks become material to the overall economics of the risk pool, insurers are more-or-less obliged to consider risk-based pricing. At least, that is how it works in the UK (I am a financial regulator in the UK). So this idea that "the man" (i.e. Government) is mandating helmets and "that's, like, totally an invasion of my personal freedom and having to spend $50 on a helmet is an unacceptable barrier to entry for new riders" is kind of specious if the end effect of that is health insurance premiums become unaffordable, or insurers consider excluding certain risky activity (such as motorcycling). I should caveat all of this by saying I know next to nothing about how health insurance in the USA works (except what I see watching John Oliver). However, most people already pay more for winter sports cover on their travel insurance don't they? I think I'm just urging some caution about a very politicised framing of the gearing up point. It might be (might just be) that sensible gear regulation could lower the barrier to entry. Also, I'm not an ATGATT fanatic. I have been known to ride in jeans, a tee shirt, helmet and gloves on a hot day in London (although I would never consider it at high speed). I'm also not sure I buy the argument that it's a slippery slope (certainly that it has to be a slippery slope). Anyway, it may be that the number of motorcyclists (or motorcycling accidents) is insignificant to the overall risk pool. If so, perhaps its legitimate to focus on the government as the only "man" worth worrying about.
Jamie Bell. Well said, and your term at the front is absolutely correct. "At the point of use". US healthcare is typically slso almost free "at the point of use" for those insured or on Medicare insurance. Typically a small fee for using the service ($50-250) and most have to share a 10% or 20% portion of the bill for a big visit (like a crash). Often those costs are free at the point of use due to vehicle insurance.
If we added up all our insurance premiums, copays and % matches, then we may find that all systems are about equivalent as to their cost to the average person. Most US arguments bring up the odd persons that fall in some inevitable crack between a solid worker, and fully poor or retired.
I totally agree with you Jamie. If you choose not to wear a helmet and something happens, then it's not society's problem to pick up the tab for the additional medical/rehabilitation. A helmet is the minimum....not necessarily a slippery slope, that's just paranoia of what "could" be.
I am attgat for the most part, but that is personal choice. I wouldn't regulate it.
Wheel Trouble same here
I don't go out without all my gear. Full face Helmet, gloves, jacket, boots. That being said, I think gear should be optional. Adults know the risk of riding without and should be able to if they choose.
I wear all my gear, why should I pay the price for other people who don't? The gear isn't just about the particular rider, it's about the family, the paramedics, the ER staff and the poor shlub that just killed or severely injured the rider when reasonable protective gear might have been enough to prevent or mitigate the damage.
People who ride around without all their gear and adequate training are immature and self-centered and if they're lucky, it won't get them killed.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade Then fight for financial independence from those you perceive as "irresponsible, immature, self-centered" people rather than using the current big government to demand bigger government.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade you must be a Liberal ugggg you were brain washed in Public Schools or should I say Communist Indoctrination centers.. Yet people still smoke.. Their Health Insurance Premiums are higher as they should be..
@@SmallSpoonBrigade I wear gear, but your reasons for wearing gear (legitimate) can be said about riding a motorcycle at all. Simply riding a motorcycle impacts family, paramedics, ER staff, etc.
I wear the exact amount of gear that keeps me from going through a costly divorce from my lovely wife!
When I fell off my last bike, I was wearing a textile jacket, regular jeans, timberland boots, gloves, and a full face helmet. The jacket was scraped up, the jeans had holes (scrapped skin), and the helmet was scraped.
Now I wear a full face helmet, gloves, a textile jacket, reinforced jeans, and over the ankle shoes. 🤷🏾♂️
You can wear/ not wear what you want and I won’t judge you, but don’t judge me when I shake my head at you and call you stupid when that car makes that left in front of you. 😔
Follow-up question: what if insurance companies begin to mandate gear?
That's a damn good question. From what I'm aware of though I'm sure it's well within their rights to put that in their policies. But I think this would be more for health/life insurance agencies and not for motorcycle insurance.
Sounds good to me if it reduces my rates
Or if they say your only covered so and such much per protective item listed in a crash incident report.
Sorry, but that's a stupid question. Motorcycle insurance doesn't usually cover the rider anyway so it wouldn't matter. My insurance just covers my bike and another car that I might run into so the insurance companies have zero incentive to add full gear restrictions or even give a discount for it. And as long as Trump doesn't succeed in killing the ACA such restrictions are illegal on your separate healthcare insurance.
Insurance companies were the moneybags that lobbied Congress to pass the seat belt law, they can't require you to wear a helmet, they have no way to enforce it. But good ole Uncle Sam on the other hand
I understand my American brothers and sisters worship independence like the baby Jesus, but as a Canadian I'm quite happy to have helmets mandated. I don't want motorcycle crash victims taking up more hospital space and healthcare dollars. Or having to support you afterwards because your brain is mush. Or even thinking about how it affects your loved ones. I'd rather (happily) use that social capital on those who didn't chose to take a risk so they could feel the wind in their hair. For what its worth, i've ridden plenty in a half helmet which gives you the 'easy rider' feelings.
I always ride helmet/boots/gloves/jacket and am lucky/thrifty enough to have saved up for both cold and warm weather jacket and gloves. I'm not all all uncomfortable in my perforated leather jacket. But I also understand that not everyone can afford these pretty expensive items, so if you're in a shirt on a hot day, its not the end of the world. Just ride safe everyone!
EDIT: Forgot to mention, Spurge kinda cuts his own legs out on the helmet argument by saying RIGHT AFTERWARDS that they make you wear a seatbelt and that is good. Its the same thing! Basic mandated safety for the greater good.
Well making every individual responsible for their own health insurance would solve that issue also but that is another argument for another day. It is a dangerous thing to say it is OK to infringe on the rights of the individual for the "greater good" aka the masses. They could technically ban motorcycles all together to reduce your health care burden since they are more dangerous than cars. I bet then you would have a totally different perspective on the worth of individual freedom.
I guess in Canada A Country that made it illegal to save your own life with a firearm People are not smart enough to make up their own mind to wear a helmet or not.
Anyone Stupid enough to vote for Trudeau or Obama should not even be issued a drivers License.. @chris lanstaff
@@mikeskidmore6754 This is why people hate Americans
@@jacktrevino1108 lol I'm from Chicago
The law should require a rider training course to get your license not gear. I agree with most if you're not wearing a helmet I think you're crazy or stupid but that's your're choice. I also think more crashes and injuries would be avoided if every rider had proper training/education. 10 yrs ago i took the licensing course and they said something like 80% of crashes involve alcohol, so I don't drink if i'm riding not 1 drop it's just a personal choice to remove myself from what is statistically the highest cause of crashes. So all in all No gear should not be required by law.
Yes that’s what my MSF instructor said as we’ll main two are alcohol and speeding.
Required? No.
I wear all the gear, all the time. You do you...
Even when you're not riding your motorcycle?
@@MrPAULONEAL If that's what floats yer boat, go ahead...
Lemmy wants them to take this seriously,l while absolutely not doing so and dodges each question the HE asked its offputting imo. Its ok to have an opinion dude.
he didnt even include a 21year old pic of himself, just the other two. lame bro
Wish they did these more and more. Could listen to these three talk about bike and life shenanigans all the time!
Your slippery slope for helmet laws is baseless. California, much complained about it's nanny state laws, passed it's motorcycle helmet law requirement in 1978 and over 40 years later, has not passed any other laws requiring safety clothing requirements. You can say the same about seatbelt laws. Sure, autos are required to have airbags, etc...but no restrictions on drivers/passengers for wearing or using extra safety items. This slippery slope argument has not been proven out regarding these laws.
"When it comes to the government, you give an inch and they take a mile. " And yet, with 60+ years of seat belt laws, and over 40 years of helmet laws, the Government has not taken a mile from that inch. You might say they took a foot from seatbelt laws to helmet laws even then it took 20+ years to do that and nothing more for 40+. I think the paranoia of government is over rated.
The whole slippery slope is a type of logical fallacy...
With my son, he wanted to ride. Conditions To me teaching him.was to wear full face helmet till he turned 21. I purchased his first helmet. He is 28 now and still wears a full face helmet. He had his license at 17.
PA does have a helmet law. It does have exceptions that allow you the freedom to choose, but we do have a helmet law.
SO many ideas, try to keep it short: Several months ago I completed an MSF course wearing a Bell 500 w/bubble, and gear that I accumulated on the lead up to the course (I like to be prepared). The instructor talked about ATGATT, then regaled us with a horrific tale about a crash he had on his face (if memory serves, he was not wearing full face helmet) we had a laugh about him remembering that he was afraid his beard wouldn't grow back and upon close inspection yes the two sides of his face were different. Ironically he showed up on a big bagger wearing what was essentially a plastic baseball cap, but I digress. Flash forward several months, I bought a bike and decided to be SUPER conservative about CCs for the first bike in a effort to trim the danger level slightly, Rebel 300. NYC traffic does not need a huge engine was also my reasoning. Gaining confidence, I started looking into what the future would look like in terms of buying a bigger bike and from out of nowhere (thanks internet) saw a picture of a guy who crashed on his FACE with no helmet. In the picture he was still alive, sitting up, with his face hanging off his chin a torrent of blood running down his shirt (again, thanks internet and now me). Two things went through my brain initially; 1st gotta sell my bike 2nd Ghost Rider's skull head IS possible. I calmed down, did not sell the bike, make sure I am as alert as I can possibly be when I ride, and still have plans to get a little bigger. AND certainly bought a full face helmet, from Revzilla of course.
I love this show/podcast and at 46 years old I value all of your varying opinions. Just a thought though; how do all of our more radical accidents impact the insurance tables and is that anything at all to consider collectively? Really relate to what Joe said about how our follies can effect loved ones. But I also value the freedom to be wrong about my choices as a tax paying adult.
-Keep the rubber side down.
So a helmet law is the start of a slippery slope? I don't agree. It hasn't been a slippery slope anywhere else in the world. Training has been increasing in the rest of the world. THAT's your slippery slope.
Dave Potter you gotta remember these are Americans. They’re insane about completely random shit. Like still signing for credit cards instead of having a pin with the card. The entire rest of the world uses chip and pin and they’re barely starting.
gotta say it but I know many disagree. Helmets should be required by law nationwide.
Why? Money. It is not possible to be responsible for the costs you incur when suffering a serious brain injury. Most or many (depends on source) serious traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients who survive a motorcycle accident without a helmet never return to full employment at the level they had before the accident. Very many of them end up supported by the state for the remainder of their lives.
We don't hear from these folks because they often slip from public view (Michael Schumacher survived a TBI in a ski accident, slipped from public view). Those who don't survive often leave behind children who may become dependant of state support. bottom line, riding w/o a helmet is very costly and those costs for irresponsible behaviour are paid by your tax dollars.
Riding w/o a helmet, failing to wear seatbelts, failing to vaccinate children, these are not "individual choices." These types of actions have impact far beyond the individual.
Bill Kerr interesting example as Michael Schumacher *was* wearing a helmet, and I believe a fancy schmancy one at that.
I’m not anti-helmet by any means and always plan to wear one on a motorcycle spare a cross parking lot idle or something, but I think it’s important to realize helmets aren’t magic and a binary decider in how you come out of an accident.
I always wear my gear if I'm going a decent distance. I commuted to work once for 15 mins with only my helmet and steel toe cap boots and I felt genuinely naked... I have crashed and it does hurt, I feel safer and faster when I know I'm protected. I don't moan at others but if they ask my opinion i will answer it with, "Go rub your arm up and down on the road and tell me it doesn't hurt... now imagine that at 30+mph".
ATGATT for me, you do you.
It would be smart for the industry to promote wearing gear. Motorcycling in the US would be more popular if people felt it was more safe. Europe has much tougher motorcycle laws, and the sport is infinitely more popular there than in the States. This “I do what I want; you’re not the boss of me” mentality IS the US market, and it’s a shrinking, failing (and sometimes dying) market. The money doesn’t lie. I don’t think it’s something that shouldn’t necessarily be legislated, but I think changing the cultural stereotype of what is COOL for a rider to wear would really help to expand the lifestyle to a broader audience.
Lemmy don't be afraid to contribute to the conversation. Id rather hear 3 men conversing on a topic that two men answering questions. As for equipment wear what benefits to your personal riding experience but know what your getting into.
As a member of the military, I'm required to wear PPE, DOT helmet, long sleeved shirt, long pants, gloves and shoes that go over the ankles as a minimum. However I don't think it should be mandatory for the civilian population. We have to in the military Because they cover our healthcare and have invested a lot of money and time in our training.
Tulio Santos military members are also required to take the basic riders course which is smart
@@dustoffmedic71 and the advanced 3 months after the basic. I had fun at the advanced course. And all done during working hours was great. The icing on the cake was that the DMV took the basic as good enough for my license.
Tulio Santos yea the course gets you your license in California too. Yea a plus being in the military is that you get to do it during work hours lol.
Helmets, yes. Everything else, no. I don’t think every conceivable riding scenario requires full gear.
I thought i would be an ATGATT person. Then as a plus size woman, I realized the amount of quality gear in my size is very limited. I have only reliably found helmets, gloves, and boots in my size. Pants, jeans, over pants, and jackets are very limited or non existent in plus sizes for women.
No armoured jeans past size 16
No jackets above size women's XL
Being forced to wear ill fitting men's gear.
And when you get men's gear, somewhere, someone decided the bigger you are, the taller you are as well. Also they decided every man is V-shaped, the shoulders are baggie and the waste barely closes.
The whole thing is discouraging, and so I am more of a All The Gear MOST of the Time
On the topic of people understanding risks it not, I think just as big a part is that so many people don't realize truly just how much good gear helps. Maybe 2 years ago I lowsided at 50 and slit across 3 lanes into a ditch. Ended up with a bruised rib and that's it. Got up and finished the next 2 days of riding with no issues. Gear vs no gear makes a crash a very different experience, and as long as you understand that then do what you want.
For a guy who didn't want to talk about this topic Lemmy had plenty to say. Also, I don't think Lem could have picked a better moment to crack that can open than in the middle of Joes' hot day story lol perfect! So glad Spurg got rid of the 70s porno stache. The only time I will tell someone what gear they have to wear is when they want to get on my motorcycle. Helmet, gloves, boots (do not have to be motorcycle boots), and armoured jacket.
I live and ride in Japan where a helmet is required. I kinda like that. I also like the fact that the law allows pretty much any kind of motorcycle helmet. I’d like to learn how the laws are in other parts of the world and how people think of them too!
When I started riding sport bikes 3 years ago I had some old sport bike vets laugh at me wearing an armored vest along with my full face helmet, riding boots and gloves. They were VERY Atgatt but preached 1000's only and daily wheelies and have all crashed since. I've got friends who just wear hoodies, helmets and gloves and think it's enough. You do you!
Military installations require helmet,long sleeves, eye pro, boots, gloves on all installations for dod members. I know that AD members also must wear it all the time when off base as well. No specific armor or ratings required tho.
When I'm on post at the base I do contract work for in VA, I'm required to wear hi-vis in either vest or jacket form, too!
Don't make a law, but you could offer incentives to wear gear, such as your state working with insurance companies to lower premiums or deductibles for wearing gear. Not sure how you could enforce it, possibly as a penalty if you get into a collision without it, like requiring you to repay the money you saved on your premium. You can still wear as little as you want, pay the same premiums, or wear more to reduce the cost of ownership. This is just an idea. There's more than one way to skin a squid.
Keep HS/LS videos coming. Y'all's commentary is appreciated and always look forward to hearing the different view points.
Huge fan of the topic. This is in my opinion something that should be debated world wide. My opinion: Fullface Helmet, gloves and motorcycle jacket with a back protector should be required by law. If something hits you while you're riding, this will prevent damage and bad reactions.
Personally i never go for a ride without Full coverage. Fullface helmet, jacket with back protector, gloves, pants, boots, the works. I tried a neck protector, but it made turning my head slow, which is as dangerous as not wearing any gear...
Heart disease is a slow death, usually involving some genetic predisposition. often you can still walk and take care of yourself. Moto accident is a sudden loss of your independence through something that is completely your choice. Big difference Lem
The one thing I have not heard considered is the financial aspects to the public. I believe that people should be able to responsibly wear whatever they would like. However those who choose not to wear gear should be required to sign a waiver that all medical expenses occurred during an accident will not exceed their net worth.
The bike is a K1300s, the gear are full face Bell helmet, mesh armour jacket, winter and summer gloves and short bike boots. Also of course, wet weather gear that always gets packed on top. I'm 62 now but when I was 18 a car cut across in front, at an intersection and wearing a full face helmet my jaw got broken in three places. I have also lost a lot of bark of the body over the years. Having said that, when not riding interstate, I often ride with just a helmet but boy, am I aware. Never take your eye off anybody.
I wear full gear, but there is no way that it should be required! This is a good topic but since your company sells gear some might think this is a self serving subject, but your approach seems balanced.
Of course it should be required, the sort of people who ride without helmets are exactly the same people who should be wearing them all the time, because they're too immature to make wise decisions. This whole, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, foot stamp reaction is not something that reflects and individual who has the maturity to get away without wearing one.
People who don't wear a helmet do not understand what it's like to go around with a head injury. Trust me, it's not fun to wake up in the ICU and have the doctors watching carefully to see if you're going to be able to feed yourself and not be allowed to get out of bed without somebody holding a harness while you walk so that they can verify that you can still walk without hurting yourself.
It's one thing if that crash is fatal, but if it's not fatal, they're going to regret their decision to not wear a helmet.
Similarly, those other bits of gear are what are going to reduce the likelihood of waking up in the ICU without an arm or a foot and collectively contribute to the likelihood of pulling through at all.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade A helmet should be required since it's so much more important than anything else and putting it on isn't really that big of a hassle but requiring full gear to ride 1km to the store would just be mad. Most of the time when I ride I'm not going more than 5km away and I'm staying in a 50km/h zone so even if I crash it's really not worse than falling on a bicycle. Of course I wear gear when I go faster than that but making everything mandatory would just make everyday life that much harder for many people.
Always pants and gloves; I tried not wearing a helmet once, and though I was only going barely 1/4 a mile, I thought it was the dumbest decision I ever made.
At the end of the day, on simple backroads going to work, or just around town, gloves and helmet will do (I always wear pants, though not always reinforced); if I'm going on the highway, then I wear all the gear.
Thing is the you do you mentality has to permeate unilaterally, not just in singular areas.
No helmet?
Be my guest- but you are accountable for your actions; if you crash and die? No tax money should be used to ease the financial hardship of those you leave behind. Paralyzed? Hope your income source isn't harmed, otherwise you're going to be hungry. Need emergency surgery you can't afford? It was nice knowing you.
I'm all for getting to do what I want without the gov intervening, but the whole equation needs to match. The guy riding around with no helmet, 4 kids, and a 40k/year job with no savings- his choices are not my problem. Reap what you sow.
Are you going to pay for his expenses if he does have a helmet?
No? Then you're not making a helmet argument at all. I agree, take care of yourself. I just think you're confusing the issue here. The line of what's "responsible" behavior varies by person to person. Some might say you have to have a helmet. Next guy says too bad, you didn't get the goldwing with the airbag. If you put it up to a vote, I'd wager a very large percentage of people wouldn't cover a motorcycle at all.
@@jellybiscuit yea that's the whole point, in such a system you have to consider both sides. It's unreasonable to ask for more of one side without giving up something from the other.
An even more slippery slope. Do you pay for a fat guy who dies of a heart attack because he ate McDonald's every day? What if the guy on the bike is riding with all the gear but it's cheap crap and he dies anyway?
By this logic everyone should walk everywhere so as not to burden society with unnecessary danger.
@@Dustballable negative, the burden to society just needs to be commensurate with ownership of the individual. A similar example would drugs should be legal. Ok, that's fair, but when someone ODs it's on them-the burden can't be on society.
Legally, I think no one should be mandated to wear gear; not boots, gloves, jackets, armor, helmets, eyewear. Nothing.
That being said, that equipment is essential to your personal safety, and choosing not to wear your gear is asking for trouble.
Insurance companies should be able to lay out their expectations for gear in their plans. If you don't wear the gear they say is essential, I think they should be allowed to deny your claim.
As an example: I as a health insurance provider state that it is reasonable for people using my product wear a full face helmet if operating a motorcycle. If you ride a bike, get into an accident and are not wearing a helmet, I can deny your claim. It was a term you agreed to, and you violated that term.
I feel this way about cars too.
Many states REQUIRE you to wear a helmet, and I would agree that gloves are essential: Boots not so much. I would require anybody on a motorcycle to have long pants on, preferably leather or heavy duty work pants. A jacket with full sleeves is also desirable. I've done about 5 feet on my helmet in a crash - and scraped up a knee, even though long pants were worn at the time. Elbows were protected by the jacket being worn. (I was biking in San Francisco, where a jacket is required for warmth!)
I have been riding for 51 years. One of the reasons I ride is the freedom...wind in my face, t-shirt flapping in the wind. If I had to gear up every time I ride, it would take some of the enjoyment out of riding. I gear up completely if I'm hitting the twisty canyon roads and my goal is to push as hard as I can for the adrenaline rush. But for a leisurely Sunday ride, boots, t-shirt, jeans and probably a helmet. The riskier the ride, the more gear I wear, but it should be my choice.
j lost my foot at 40 mph crash on a 50cc motorcycle no gear dog ran out hit front will now i use full track gear road rash no fun
Franklin Booher my dad passed away 4/23/19 he had gear on but someone kicked his bike he crashed 6/12/17 and lasted way to long so I’m sorry ik how it feels
I am a full supporter of natural selection. Don’t want to wear a helmet? I’m cool with that. No jacket? I’ll be one of the people saying “nasty rash man” no boots? How’s that ankle buddy? Personally, my skin is worth $1500 and I’d like to keep it that way. And I love my kids so I’m gonna wear my boots and helmet so I can return to them and play with them
ATGATT myself and I feel helmets should be legally required same as seat belts. The rest of the gear optional. You won't die from a minor road rash in a 10mph fall, but you can absolutely crack your head open.
So you are the kind of dickhead that wants teenagers to look like morons wearing a fucking bicycle helmet when riding their bicycle.Dumbest law EVER.Just so people like you can be happy that you forced your social morality on others.
Steven Corry you cant compare a bicycle to a motorcycle you goober.
@@stevencorry5790 Go smack years head into the concrete at 5 mph and tell him if you still feel the same.
Then again by the sound of it you might already have some brain damage.
I’d love a weekly, 1 hour podcast of these three guys, no script, just having a beer and talking bikes.
The way I feel about it is that everyone should just be able to wear whatever they want to wear. It's not like in a car where seat belts will protect the other passengers from your flying body. No matter what you're wearing on a motorcycle, if you crash, you're not going to do any more or less damage to somebody else. If you're okay with risking your own safety, go for it.
Im an Australian and just started riding in Vietnam - here nobody wears any protection at all. Helmets are mandatory but almost nobody wears certified full-face or even visored helmets. 99 percent wear cheap (like 2-3USD) helmets and flip-flops when riding and nothing else to avoid police fines/bribes. I have seen these helmets shatter into several peices from simply falling after being hooked onto the handlebars and the bike falling over while parked.
In a year here I have witnessed at least 5 fatal motorcycle accidents. A colleague of mine is in hospital this week having toes amputated.
I don't have enough money to buy decent gear and super heat means even I wont be wearing a full jacket and pants. I bought a certified full face and I always wear closed toe shoes or steel toe boots (really hard to get riding boots here). I also wear mechanix gloves as its difficult to find gloves here too. When riding off road I wear some heavy jeans and the above and that's it.
I get the angle of all the gear all the time but the reality is that its just not feasible or possible in all parts of the world. Try wearing jackets and kevlar jeans in 45 degree (celcius) heat!
A full face Bell saved my ass 45 years ago, going around 60 a large horse Chesnut fell and splattered my face shield, damn near knocked me over and blocked my vision, it cracked my shield, a quick wipe and back in control, I never leave home without one
Team ATGATT here, but no one forced me to do so. One minor accident was enough to realize my safety is more important than looking cool. But hey, you do you. I'm on personal freedom and responsibility side of this. No laws!
In Michigan, you're allowed to ride with no helmet if you have a certain amount of insurance coverage. I'm not sure how much it's enforced, but I think it's not a bad solution
Ok. I want this segment done over again with the following premise:
“If your spouse or now adult child were taking motorcycle lessons, and then going to be on the road with you, what motorcycle gear do you want them to have? “
Because whether we are talking about family or our brotherhood of the wheels, what new riders and less experienced riders want to know os this: “What’s the best thing for my enjoyment and safety, long-term?”
I would say... 30 years ago when I was riding, I rode with blue jeans and tennis shoes and a full face (HOT) helmet. It was dangerous to ride but, I did it because I wanted to do so. Fast forward 30 years, motorcycle specific gear has come a long way in weight, style and effectiveness. Also, people were not texting and driving back then either. I ride with very comfortable armored jackets (mesh and leather), my gloves actually are comfortable and have protection (not just leather work gloves) and my helmet is modular (which gives me the best of all worlds. It is a GREAT time to ride motorcycles. No more reserve tanks. No more chokes. Headlights are WAY better. Overall, I think embracing what you feel comfortable with, helps you enjoy the road while minimizing the risk that is already there.
If anything is regulated by law, I think training has a bigger impact on safety than gear. More required training for both cars and bike riders, and more regulation for new riders (like there are in other places) will have a bigger impact than gear laws.
Full face, gloves and my Cowboy boots that are super heavy duty logging boots.
And to be honest, I only started wearing a full face For music. It was cheaper then a street glide. Helmet are only required for under 21 in my state as well.
Never take life to seriously, you'll never get out alive.
Also, in my state. If your pulled over for Speeding. And wearing a helmet. Part of the fine is waved... and they just passed law for us to filter at red lights
I'm with Lemmy nearly 100%. Every once in awhile, I'll take off without a helmet. For me it's all about risk assessment, but I'll never get on the bike without boots and gloves.
The realness of this and these guys and RevZilla actually posting this gets a like from me
I think we should adopt Europe's bike size policies. We have different levels of drivers licences, it should be the same for motorcycles. Age brings wisdom. (For most people).
I really think that gear depends on how you feel what you're riding who you're riding with and just basically how the cosmic Vibes are flowing in the quadrant whether it's an erratic or non erratic frequency :-) l0l
i shall apply these wise words of wisdom though anything i do from now on in my life. I must see how these cosmic vibes and how erratic they are to make my decisions from now on XD
As a rider, I think riders should ride to there level of comfort, But, we have to consider the bigger aspects of a hobby we enjoy with a higher level of understanding. If we didnt gear up..that will hurt cycle shops that we love to browse through, if we didnt gear up, how can we get society/government to take us more seriously, if we didnt gear up it will truly affect younger riders who already are reckless and last but, not least; insurance coverage will be costly. Having insurance is a state law but, who will cover you if you not trying to cover yourself!?
As mentioned, people make all sorts of stupid choices that are detrimental to their health, life and a lot of times, other people. My husband and I wear helmets, jackets, and now protective jeans from Revzilla - thanks for the great service and merchandise! I’m the passenger of six years. After an accident, hopefully the only one, at only 30 mph when I got thrown off and wearing no jacket because it was in the high 90s, I’m happy to not have road rash again! Thanks guys for a great session.
I do tend to agree with Joe's comment on wearing a different "uniform" on a different bike. I have a denim jacket, jeans, and logger boots with a bitwell gringo helmet that I wear on my '76 CB550, but if I was on a newer sport bike, I'd feel a little bit out of place in my current gear
I think that when the consequences of your actions affect people other than yourself, you are responsible for taking reasonable steps to mitigate the severity or probability of those consequences. Wearing gear (even just a helmet) does a lot to mitigate the severity of injuries in a collision, considering it's a pretty small investment on the rider's part.
As for helmet *laws* ... If all riders opted to wear helmets, there would be no need to pass a law. In Spurge's case, if he doesn't want helmet laws to be enacted, it's in his best interest to advise other motorcyclists who don't wear helmets to wear them voluntarily, as he does.
Also, they need to update the DOT helmet standard. If you're going to require motorcyclists to wear helmets, at least make them wear *good* helmets.
Must wear protector gear always ..
Always wear riding gear. Has saved my life once already
Been riding over 50 years and compiled nearly half million miles on street. Had two accidents, luckily never seriously hurt beyond a broken bone. Always wear helmet as personal choice, boots, long pants, gloves and unless extremely hot a jacket. With that being said, I feel strongly against legislating away our rights of personal choice, let each person assume their own level of risk. If left to lawmakers, they would outlaw everything they felt had risk, motorcycles, bicycles, boats you name it, so protect your rights unless they put other innocent people in harm's way. Just my personal view Gov is far too big & imposing.
@revzilla if Lemmy is ok with no helmet, should it be acceptable for insurance companies to modify payment percentages based on what gear your had on during the crash? Since having insurance is you deferring risk for a fee, shouldn’t it be adapted if you take some of that risk back on yourself by not wearing it? Also, Lemmy mentioned part of it is the unsafe ness of it, how would he respond to his son asking if it is more important that Lemmy gets his dopamine hit from riding without a helmet or is making sure he is still alive to be a father for him. I accept that motorcycling is more dangerous, but encouraging others on ways to mitigate the risks is not being preachy.
I've crashed both with and without a helmet, both at low speeds. I was uninjured in both, and the bike I was back seating without a helmet was usable. My own I put on the ground was usable with a helmet on. On mine my helmet took the impact and had some deep scratches on it my face would have taken. Riding behind my friend we went down when he failed to brake properly on wet pavement. We were moving slow and simply rolled off the bike with no injuries, picked it up got it restarted and kept on traveling. What drove me to wear a full face helmet was taking an angry bee to the face with a 3/4 helmet. I don't want to repeat that event. Gloves for me are a regular thing. I have a set of gloves that is very comfortable, and that makes a difference for me. Leather jacket is well broken in now and an absolute must, even in the heat.
Riding almost 40 years I find myself even uncomfortable not getting on the bike without Kevlar Jeans or riding pants. Just like getting in the car and putting on a seat belt. Might not ultimately save one's life but increases the percentages of other types of injuries.
Hey all, newer rider here. Unfortunately I have to admit that I will frequent opt for comfort over safety. But I do ALWAYS wear a helmet. Seen too many wrecks where they would have saved a life (former law enforcement). I've also seen plenty where the helmet wouldn't have made one difference at all. Anyway, what I really wanted to say was that I am totally on board with the slippery slope concept. A free person can choose to take their life in their hands if they want, even if I would choose differently for myself.
I get all the "you do you" and "adults can choose for themselves their own level of comfort and safety." The problem becomes when your personal choice effects my freedoms, or my wallet. When people don't ride smart or don't wear gear, and have more complex accidents (medical costs / EMT responses) that raises my insurance rates because those rates are based on averages and local statistics. I don't want to pay for someone else's right to make poor choices.
Eye wear yes! Absolutely. Everything else is optional. Some times comfort is about feeling safe and sometimes comfort is just plain old comfort. Puttering across town on a hot day no faster than 25 MPG shouldn't require even a helmet much less ATGATT. Since I've been riding again I go everywhere on the bike unless groceries and stuff hauled makes it impossible. Higher speeds and longer rides up the level of gear to a personal level. Personally I always wear helmet and eye protection because it is required. Passing a law to make people money (Gear sales) or save people money (insurance companies) shouldn't be done.
At the minimum I wear a helmet, gloves, jeans, boots, eye protection, and a vest. I live in Florida so I like to have more surface area to cool off. Just closing the visor on the helmet increases the internal temp ten degrees. That's a big change for a small space.
I say at the minimum all riders should wear a helmet and gloves.
Outstanding video again fellas. This conversation for me with my 21 year old son, because he is new to motorcycling and I am getting back into it, has been like you would imagine it would go. I am preaching that the gear is good. He is saying things like the jacket will be too hot in South Dakota summers etc. However, he did take the motorcycle safety class that you can do to get a certificate for a motorcycle license with me. And the education was priceless for both of us. I whole heartedly agree with keeping the government out of this discussion. Their only role should be education. If people are educated on the dangers of not wearing gear and they choose not to wear it anyway then the way I see it at the end of the day is this is natural selection. If you choose to increase your odds of suffering significant injury or death that's on you and your family. As someone who rarely wore a helmet myself at 21 I am going to push strongly for my kid to wear one because as the old adage goes, with age comes wisdom. The rest is up to him.
Most of the questions posted are answered by simple practical means and the equipments required are incremental to ride distance, traffic situations, road conditions, forecasted weather, etc. But the most important gear of all disregarding all those situations is:
WEAR A HELMET! Even when going for a couple of blocks.
I think it's important for motorcyclists to enjoy themselves and have fun while riding, and wearing a ton of heavy gear can really interfere with that. But on the other hand, there will be more motorcyclists on the road having fun if we're not constantly becoming pavement decoration because we didn't want to get hot for a few seconds at red lights or get called names by our riding buddies
The advances in protective gear over just the last 5 years alone have been tremendous. I wear ATGATT and feel totally comfortable even in hot (33 C) weather, and over the last few years seems like we (riders) are constantly coming closer to wearing something that looks and feels basically like casual clothes while having exponentially greater protection, for both break and abrasion.
PLEASE consider wearing an ECE full-face helmet, a full-grain leather jacket (with mesh and/or perforation in low-risk areas), and pants lined with aramid/kevlar at the bare minimum, ideally something truly protective for riders like Covec or similar. You've probably spent thousands of dollars on your bike, spend a thousand getting yourself some equipment that will keep you riding it.
Lemmy was talking about boots and gloves, and he said that boots were more about function than protection. I understand that, but I have to say that boots are very much protective gear. The first good streetbike I had was a Kawasaki Zephyr 500, and I made the mistake of riding it with my tennis shoes, and I dropped it pulling back in my driveway, and just that fall peeled my ankle like an onion, so boots are absolutely protective gear. One thing that drives me absolutely crazy is when people ride in shorts, because pavement will peel the skin off your body in an instant. Now don't get me wrong, I believe I don't have the right to tell people what to wear when it comes to riding riding gear, but I do think we should use some basic common sense and think about the consequences of riding without proper gear. I don't always wear my jacket, but I don't ride without my helmet, and without my boots, but I still believe a person should have the freedom to ride as they please. I still have no problem encouraging and recommending gear.
I'd like to be anti government, but use of public roads means that if you have an accident, there will be first responders who need to take lifesaving measures, or see and clean up your remains. It's in all our interest that they not get PTSD over your corpse. I don't think it's too much for the general public to demand helmet laws to this end. Personally, I'm fine with a number of PPE laws, if people wanted them. That said, I'd like to see strengthened automotive licensing requirements alongside that. All drivers on the road should be treated as commercial drivers, insofaras they're expected to drive with professionalism.
What I don't favor are regulations which tend to infringe on the right of repair. With the computerization of motorcycles, my opinion is that anyone should be able to download and use software relevant maintaining and repairing their motorcycle.
Living in a country with socialised healthcare, it annoys me when people put themselves at risk with insufficient gear knowing it’ll be the rest of us footing the bill for their avoidable injury. Having said that, I also live in a super multicultural city and I get how people from less developed nations have an entirely different standard of gear.
I'm finding that when I ask people in Michigan, few of those who don't wear helmets realize that in order to do so they're required to carry extra personal injury insurance (for them AND their riders, separately) to do it - you can't just not wear a helmet. I think some of them might get hit with fines or not get their injuries covered by medical insurance if they wreck.
I'm an ATGATT rider myself. I'll judge a little when someone runs by me in a chino, but won't actually start a discussion with them. Living in the EU, I'm required by law to wear a helmet, long pants, long sleeves and gloves. besies shoes, that is all. But you didn't touch on the subject of public view.
I just started riding at 35yo. And im active duty military. We all have to go through a 2 day course which is the same as most just to get a license. But we are required to wear gloves, long sleeves, pants, over the ankle shoes and a helmet anytime were on base. While were off base.. we still have to wear all the above minus long sleeves. Or we run the risk of our life insurance not being paid out to our family in the event of a crash. I am fine with that. But i made the decision a long time ago that when im riding i will always wear all of that minus long sleeves or a jacket. But im not going to force my civilian friends to use those standards. Ultimately its your choice. Mine is to wear what i need so my family can be taken care of.
Its very frustrating how every conversation about motorcycle laws devolves into a debate about helmets. Thats such a small aspect of the debate we should be having around motorcycle safety, culture, and regulations. I believe the motorcycle community needs to have more conversations about regulations as they apply to standards set by DOT, how traffic sensors and traffic laws apply to motorcycle riders, and what laws SHOULD or should not be in place regarding car drivers and their relationship to motorcycle riders. Great show though - also a great store. Been there several times.
i've crashed on the street, track and off-road. i LOVE LOVE LOVE gear. only 2 types of people don't like gear: 1) people who've never been busted up on a bike 2 )cheap riders. i understand that it's the rider who has to live with the consequences, so wear whatever you want, but if you can afford it then suit up. it looks cool and could save your life and/or body.
I think the only thing required by law should be boots, gloves, long pants, long shirt, and helmet. Doesn't necessarily have to be full on motorcycle gear but at least have your skin covered to help in case of an accident. The rider can be the safest on the road but there are alot of things that cant be controlled such as road conditions and other drivers and riders. It wouldnt bother me if it became law as I will never jump on a motorcycle without covering up.
I'd honestly say the biggest thing is a full face helmet is what shouldn't be forced..but all riders should be peer-pressured to be full faced. When someone falls off their bike...it isn't the top of their head sliding on the pavement..it is their face. While you can prob. survive if you take a bad fall without wearing the rest of the gear and suffer from arm/troso/leg skin being shredded....you cannot (or atleast highly unlikely) survive your jaw being torn off.
I live in Thailand the temperatures are extreme. I wear a full face helmet with gloves pants and a body armor vest. To me the full jacket is just unbearable with the heat.
I'm always, always going to insist that my pillion is ATGATT. This is because the safety of my pillion is my responsibility. Otherwise, it's up to the individual as to what great they wear. Personally, I found out the hard way, over and over, that ATGATT makes sense for me. Thanks for a good discussion. Actually, I think a RevZilla tee shirt would be a very good piece of gear... if only I had one....
Even though the ideals of being a motorcycle enthusiast have changed drastically in the past 10 years. One thing that I doubt will ever change is that riding a motorcycle is about freedom. I personally CHOOSE to wear all the gear, because I've been down HARD. Concrete hurts. June bugs to the face at 80mph suuuucks. There's a lot of benefits for ME to wear the gear. That being said. If those things don't bother you. Rock on with your bad self.
As a trauma physician, I have seen the worst of the worst. Many motorcycle crashes occur when you are just running down to grab a carton of milk. You might have a helmet on and that is it. Then I get to make friends with you in my very expensive ER. When you hit that pavement, jeans and skin are the first to go. Then it is muscle, then bone. We are great at fixing bones, tendons, skin loss, but neuro injuries not much we can do. I remember one guy that we operated on, at least a 100 times, as he straddled a curb for around 25 feet. Not much left between the legs. Feet also become caught on bikes and are torn off so boots are important. Million dollar hospital bill’s.
The thing is, you sort of need to crash at least once to realize what a motorcycle crash feels like. It's absolutely soul crushing and thats if you walk out of it ok. Every rider ive met whos not wearing gear, i subtly ask them if theyve ever crashed and almost every single time, the answer is no man, ive never crashed in my life. And they say it in a boasting manner, when in reality, i believe you cant be a experienced rider, till well, youve experienced everything. The highs and the lows.
A great discussion with a variety of perspectives. As an ATGATT guy, I appreciated hearing your thought processes.