FM Monster Duel! Yamaha TX816 vs TX802
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2020
- The FM monster showdown. Yamaha TX816 vs. TX802.
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The Yamaha TX816 from 1984, a monster DX7, in fact you get EIGHT DX7 in one box with a total polyphony of 128 voices.
Drawback - It's easy to waste voices and you can't edit anything without a real DX7 to control it. Or compatible software.
The Yamaha TX802 from 1987, a highly flexible and powerful FM workhorse. EIGHT 2 voice polyphonc DX7IIs inside. So less total voices than the 816, but you can arrange voices as you want and fully editable from the module itself.
Which one should you get? I show you the differences and how to use them both.
17:00 Answer to what mix was what from the last video - MIX A=802 MIX B=816
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Growing up I listened to so much synth-pop and it's only natural that my own music takes inspiration from many of the acts I loved back then. I still love them and listen to them!
Howard Jones, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys, New Order, Erasure, Thompson Twins, Tears for Fears, The Human League, Propaganda. FGTH, Ultravox, OMD, Eurythmics, Duran Duran, Giorgio Moroder, Jean Michel Jarre, Jan Hammer, Alphaville, A-ha as well as loads of artists doing what is now called Italo Disco. And many more great acts like Nik Kershaw, Spandau Ballet, Wham, Dire Straits ++ - เพลง
I got a TX816 a month ago and its my new FM power house. I actually use Dexed to make music in my DAW and then take that midi information in the DAW and export the Dexed sysex patch I used into the TX816 and then record the TX816 playing it and processing it. It's fantastic and I've been having a blast designing sounds that compliment each other and then loading them all at the same time for a wall of sound that's got to be like 128 voices at once.
Tower of bloody FM Power! Next up is to combine this with the two TX81Zs, your TX16W and my SY99 + FS1R. Watch out, south of Norway will explode in frequency modulation! ^_^
Haha! The country will never recover ;-)
@@EspenKraft Maybe set the earth off it's Axis...
Legend has it that such FM power is so strong, Saturn's rings started to ripple! True story! ;)
Oooo the FS1R! Formant FM!
Tarik Essamri Yeah, you should check out Espen’s earlier episode on that one. :)
I love my TX816. And since they're so old now I went ahead and spent the time to recap the power supply and modules, including changing the batteries. Good as new!
Proud owner of 2 x TX816, and a DX7 (had even 2 at a time!). I spoke with Wally Badarou few years ago who still use 2 TX816 for his famous power strings.
I always preferred the sound of a DX7IIFD over the original DX7, and thus the TX802 over the TX816.
I'm glad that after all these years, your video has indeed verified my opinions from so many years ago. Thanks for capturing the nuance in your recording.
Thanks! :)
Same here! There's a very funny TH-camr named hedge who says "whichever one you like better, you're right." the 802 seems least noisy to my ears and the most clear.
OMG FM HOLY GRAIL. Espen you continue to amaze us. With the depth of your love for 80s music tech. And history. Always wanted a TX816. But you also showed how great the TX802 is. And in reality for price and reliability. Its is probably a better option.
Both are great, for different reasons. ;-) Cheers
I just got my TX816 up and running. Also have an fm synth museum collection I'm building. So far: DX7II, TX81Z, TX816. Waiting to get a TG77.
Thanks and Very Good video Espen. In France Éric Serra used the TX816 a lot for the movie :Le Grand Bleu where there is very good music...
It's 2020 and it's *Still Worth It!* I'll take both! If i had enough money...
OK ,so I guessed wrong the last Video. Thanks for showing ,FM Synthesis seems to be more impressive than I thought
Many were wrong. ;-) Cheers
Have both machines...but the king is the 816...the thing is not to use the same sound in each module and detune it..of course that can be nice too, but rather to build a massive expressive wall of sound from different sounds in the modules, detune and pan those to your liking and run some of them thru FX and it´s amazing. One superb player doing this is the great Jay Oliver. He were into "upper and lower structures" where some of the modules provided the "body" of the sound and others the "top details" without body to work together. Like a D-50 if you will...doing this, the expressiveness is UNMATCHED by anything
Espen is the type of friend who knows it all and helps you out when you have a question 🥰. Great video again, stay safe!
Thanks for saying! :)
Espen, Thanks for showing two of my favorite FM synths!
I got a TX802 as a gift from a friend recently and was curious how different it would sound from an 816, or if it were 'worse', but... nope can't hear a difference here! I'm really happy with my 802 and don't plan on a change over anytime soon ^^
The 802 is great!
I detected some Ducktales Moon theme during the introduction, nice. 😃
Cheers!
Thanks Espen! This was a really interesting video! Love taking a look at these old rackmount units
Cheers! :D
One DX7 engine is satisfying
Two is great
Eight engines is EPIC
Man, you even found a DMP7! Talk about some classic icons! I’ve got a pair of DX7s, a DX5 which is my “Rolls Royce” DX, and a TX816. Nothing like 12 DX7s all playing at once, all slightly defined and panned apart!
The DMP7 is historically significant so it was cool to be able to show this as well. ;-)
@@EspenKraft indeed. The first tour I did with Smitty, that rig was massive, and all the synths were routed into a pair of DMP9/16's... the rack mount successor to the DMP7. They were great boxes!
Nice Jim, cool to know! They do sound good, even by today's standard. I've used so many Yamaha Digital mixers through the years and I've always enjoyed them.
Great demo! Awesome FM racks! It's a sound! Thanks a lot, Espen! Well done!
Many thanks man! :)
of course you have these already! i just found out these even exists :)
Really interesting comparison thanks
Great video - good enough to convince me I need some FM synthesis in my life - got a TX802 coming in the next few days
Thanks! And congrats :)
Espen Kraft Haven’t stopped playing with it since it arrived - should have got one years ago ! . It has version 1.4 firmware in it so I’ve ordered a 1.5 EPROM to install inside to get it up to latest spec
@@TheGuitartwanger Sweet!
thanks so much for making this, helped me get one of these i found at a pawn shop with bad batteries back from the dead with new sysex patches
Excellent news. Cheers :D
Whow ¡ Min: 12:21, What a sound ¡ Very inspiring....
Awesome Video as always, Mr Kraft 😎
Thanks Sam! :)
Thanks, great stuff as always Espen!
Many thanks man! Easy gear to be enthusiastic about ;-)
This is the best vintage keys channel of youtube .
Many thanks for saying!
Yayyyyy! Rolling up my sleeves for this one. Here we go...
Yeah man, things a beast system! I am using a RX15 to distribute the midi and essentially have a dedicated 8 part FM drum machine!
Great video Espen as always, greetings from Argentina!
Thanks Marcelo! :)
What is love has come to my mind.
Cool! I think that the most big difference between the simple module and top FM-rack is the details and level of expression. Anyway both are really good gear and in most cases sounds very close to each over.
Respect and special thanks for the short retro-trip with an excellent arrangement of the Duck Tales NES game, level Moon =)
Thanks man, happy you liked it! :)
Same sound. Thank you for the review.
Cheers!
First of all, I need to thank you for having uploaded this video, Espen. It helped me realize that I was confusing two of Yamaha’s TX modules, the 802 and the 81z. I was aware that the Z was equipped with the DX7MkII engine, but I wasn’t sure what engine was in the 802.
If I’m not mistaken, TX-816 should be given a medallion for being the first ever 128-note polyphonic model ever to hit the market, A good 15 or 16 years before E-mu started building Proteus modules that had the same polyphony. Something which I’ve written before and that some might tire of seeing from me is a fantasy that I had before. My fantasy was that someone with an 816 could program a 4-part multitimbral patch at 32-note polyphony that could be triggered from a vector synthesizer whose joystick controller could switch between the four tones. The word I received when I asked about whether or not such an idea could come to fruition is that this module cannot be configured that way.
The 81z does not have a DX7 engine of any kind, inside. The 81z is a 4-operator FM synth with some features the DX7 does not have, but it's not near the power of a 6-operator DX7. Cheers :)
Thank you for the correction, Espen. Nobody likes to make mistakes, but I appreciate when somebody informs me of one.
No problem. The 81z is a fantastic FM module regardless and I like it a lot. It's been very much used by a lot of electro artists throughout the decades, for various reasons.
Great looking gear setup. I think to quote Anders with the tower of FM power. I just can't persuade my wife I need more gear so I'm stuck with software and Dexed at this time for my FM fix. Luckily you have plenty to share.
Dexed does a very good job!
Great job Espen. Man, I think my 1983 DX7 needs a new friend lol
Cheers!
Thanks for the great video as usual. It really makes you want to fire up the FM sound modules starting to collect dust in the rack.
I have all these gear except the DMP7 which I sold away because the motorized faders became stuck and the higher end of the sound was quite restrictive. It must be hard to maintain these old kit in good condition.
I dust every day, with a fine brush while using a hand vacuum cleaner just above the brush. ;-)
Mind blown Espen, Yamaha FM sound is unique for sure, I still have a TX81Z, I hope you do a video on the TX81Z one day. Keep up the awesome content. Cheers!
Thanks! I have done that already. 22 minutes long.
@@EspenKraft How could I have missed that! I will look for it, thanks again Espen you're the best!
Cheers!
Thanks for the explanation , useful as always
Thanks for watching, happy you liked it! :)
The Yamaha Montage will give you the FM power of the 816... and a whole lot more. :-) Nice to see an interest in FM synthesis again.
But it won't give ME what I want. ;-)
The 802 can be filter, EQ, ect to dull it down a bit if need it. And the winner is THE 802 👏👏👏👏👏
Excellent demo!
Thanks!
As always it's nice to learn about all equipment from you Mr. Kraft. cause you explain easily and in depth 💯..
Quick story.. FM blew up my car speakers..🤭 Trying to pulse the car's cheap speakers with FM Dexed on the laptop. Use too loud of a low signal and it popped the right speaker. 😳 but I still love that FM...
Cheers... gonna try to use my yamaha Montage using FM-X as a TX816.
Sorry to hear it. Cheers :D
They are cheap speakers.. jaja. So now I just listen to it in mono...
I like balanced XLR outputs on back of TX-816. I'm proud owner of 2 x TX-802. Beautiful, timeless machines. Cheers!
Cheers!
The FM cover of NES DuckTales' Moon theme @ 00:19 & 04:57 is very sweet!
Thanks!
@@EspenKraft I would love to hear a full version! ;)
Maybe some other time, but a longer version of this would just trigger the algorithms of TH-cam and Nintendo would shut it down. ;-)
I was right all along. Thanks for an interesting video, Espen.
You knew it! Thanks Pekka! :)
@espenkraft Is The Man ..! Just...Thank you...!
Yup. I guessed right on the previous video. Not even sure I can explain why, it was so close.
Yamaha REV7! Beautiful
I love your Red micro Phone
I don't hear significant differences. So I am happy that I have the 802, because I can add one of the moderne Cardridge with many soundbanks to load any Sound in shortest time. And I like the 8 Single outputs to get really crazy sounds out of the 802.
@Jon Goat And if we are talking about the "home studios" in these days (well for me early 90:s), don't forget about the usually really crappy and extremely noisy mixers. The Boss BX- 60 I had was notorius for being very noisy. And then it had to finally go into a normal tape (the consumer small ones) in the end which brought even more noise to it!
I couldn't hear any difference, I thought the mk1 sounded quite a bit different. I dont have any real use for the 816 even though I could have got one for very little many years ago, its a bit big and ugly and my 802 is more than enough in the age of DAWS.
I have a TX416. I hope to eventually load it up with TF1 cards but I’m in no hurry.
There’s something I really like about its size, its weight, the connections, the user-unfriendliness. It is like a living thing that just wants to mind its own business. A 37-year old musical robot slave to do my FM bidding.
Amazing presentation. These synths and Mr Espen are magic and timeless. Is it possible to buy or download beautiful patches from video?
Many thanks Nick! All the patches used in this video are easily found and downloaded from the net. Free. Thousands upon thousands of patches online for the DX7.
@@EspenKraft Thank you for your quick answer
wonderful!! immediately bought a TX816 on the bay after watching! Now you gotta buy a Rev1 for those! BTW, I also own an Yamaha CE20 and a CE35. Those are the earliest affordable FM performance synths, Yamaha ever made. They sound amazing! Like poor mans GS2.
I also have a Rev1 and I can tell you it’s worth every penny. No comparison to Rev7, Rev5 or SPX. But this also would give a great comparison video on it’s own - best of Yamaha reverbs!
Thanks! I actually know the Rev1, but don't own one. I don't plan to buy it either, but it's a great unit still.
tihinter Yamaha CE-25 was my first real fm synth back on the year 1988. I used to gig around with it a lot.
Still catching up - first, yeah, called it from the last video - the 802 and 816 do have a generational sound difference, and someone with experience with FM could pick it up on the right sounds and outside a mix. Not sure I reliably do it in a mix with other instruments of course. Oh, and I really like the touch of using the DMP7 mixer here - applause for completeness! I always wanted one of those back in the day too. (Eventually owned a DM1000, which cured me of that!)
I think the DMP7 is mandatory in a rack of Yamaha DX gear. ;-)
My mouth was watering all the way through this video...
You need therapy.
I don't blame you! :P
@@vjrei I'm pretty sure I do, yeah.
Hey Espen, have you seen those crazy old Yamaha Electone "synth organs" from the late 80s? I just picked up one yesterday and was blown away with the FM synth in these. They are multi timbral Stereo FM synths (claims to have 16 operators), you can even make your own FM sounds via the manual switch panel, but you can dig even deeper into them via midi! What blew me away was that these old Yamaha instruments had insanely good keyboards with both Touch and After touch on ALL keybeds. I suspect they where too expensive back in the days, and the programming too hard to do for the average demographics these were meant for. Already after just ONE day with this monstrosity (I got a Yamaha HS-6 in brand new condition, from 1987) I already could make better examples than 99 percent of the youtube examples of the instrument - because everyone thought it was an organ, it's not an organ - it's a programmable multi timbral FM synth in Stereo! It's like having several DX7's in one. Back in the days, it retailed for 45000 SEK in sweden (1987), imagine what that monster would cost today.
It was even so far ahead of its time - that every keybed it comes with - has its own MIDI channel, so you can in fact use it as a master-multi-keyboard setup with full Touch and Aftertouch support. Insane. Hope you find one - one day and lay your masterful fingers on it, so it at least get ONE last honor before every model has been thrown away in the bin like common organs.
@sneakydisco Yeah I suspect you are right. You have 16 combinations, I think thats what they meant in the advert. You can adjust some of the parameters in the "manual roll menu" to the right, but if you want to adjust ALL the parameters, you must do it via MIDI (yes you can do this via midi!) There are some software for the Atari ST series where you can adjust all the parameters for them, not made for PC yet, but who knows? Someone ought to be the first, it's fully programmable!
Btw, did you know the HS6 (and respectively HS8) have individual touch AND after touch on each keybed? If you have the HS8 - you even have after touch on the PEDALS too! What blew me away, was that they have higher resolutions than can be played with the internal synthesizer, and the higher resolution touch levels are sent via midi - so I connected a modern Yamaha Montage to it, and the HS6-became a mind blowing Master keyboard for it. The Montage assigns Midi1 , 2 and 3 etc. via each patch you add to one instrument, so it can be played individually on each keybed on the HS6 or 8, amazing!
@sneakydisco Only the HS8 has the Pitch/Modulation wheel, and the HS6-8 series had spared no expenses, imagine being so ahead of your time that you decided to make your organ series with synthesizers inside instead? And to top it off - combine it with AWM (PCM sampling + fm synthesis?) and make your organ fully programmable, rythms, ROM/Ram cartridge upgrades and whatnot, back in the 87s? And midi with full control both ways, including full polyphony keybeds all 3 of them, with touch/aftertouch. WAAAY ahead of time. ELS-02C/X, ELS-01C/X och EL-900m. was the only ones according to an Electone enthusiast I know of that has similar traits.
@sneakydisco My friend told me to stay away from the HX ones as they are less capable than the HS series when it comes to things you "can do" with them, modify etc...I don't know the EL-90 myself, but looking at a few youtube videos - it sounds pretty sweet! Hope you got a good deal on it! Look at the manuals, look at the MIDI section, and the specs, and see if you can discover something useful!
@sneakydisco You're spot on! :) They thought the HS/HX series looked so futuristic, like a thing out of star-trek so it was used as a prop, indeed these where futuristic, also on the inside. The engineers did some amazing stuff, but people weren't ready!
@sneakydisco organforum.com/forums/forum/organ-building-repair-restoration/virtual-organs/38602-yamaha-electone-el90-as-virtual-hauptwerk-console check out that thread...might be of some help to you,
muito bom amigo!
Thanks Espen, The 816 has way too many complex scary parts that could fail for my liking😊 I can’t hear any actual difference so 802 definitely my preference! ( plus display/programmability etc). Was weird seeing you playing the Juno alpha but very “non-Juno” sounds coming out of the speakers. I liked what you were playing with the 816, it’s it out of a song or just something you made up?
Thanks! The tune I play on the 816 is called "Sheeba". That both released commercially and I have a tutorial on this channel.
@@EspenKraft that's very cool! Thanks!
It's funny. The factory default sounds for these synths didn't really have any decent Pad or String sounds. But there are tons of user-made patches that sound great. I was kind of shocked when I came across a whole bank of good sounding pads. It's even better when you can stack synths :P
I bought an untested 816 from ebay for a lowish price. And got it up and running just yesterday. All the voice data and settings on each module was messed up from probably long dead batteries (I had a Wavestation A/D that lost its data as well). Needless to say I was worried about it, but it works.
You can't hear the difference because the A/B comparison were just using one module of the 816. Listen at 12:16 to see what happens when you stack. Now the 802 can stack, but the voice count is much lower.
I had a Sy77 back in the day
Monster patch 9:40 ... amazing; that’s a track right there.
Well, that IS a song already. ;-)
Be on the look out for a Beetle PR-7. They were made in the mid 1980s. They are a 3U rack unit the exactly duplicates the front panel of an original DX7 for use with the TX-816
Is an AWESOME addition to a TX-816
Yes, it's a very cool thing to get if you don't have a DX7. Which I have btw ;-)
816 is better to my ears. Beautiful melody you play with it. Is there a way to load the same sound into all the modules at the same time?
TX816 is a definite dream one for me.
Another great video! Always wished to listen to a comparison like this! I have read that a famous artist used the whole TX-816 all for one realistic guitar patch, can't remember his name now.
Just for curiosity: is that true that old Yamaha keyboards can send dynamic values only up to 120 instead up to 128, loosing the chance to a complete dynamic control on other gear linked?🤔
Thanks! Yes, the original DX7 can not transmit over 100 in velocity, so it's worse than you think. ;-)
There's a TX802 for sale locally (and, living on an island with nothing but sea in all directions, that is an advantage not to be underestimated), but I can't really justify it. Because it's not just the TX802, but also the extra audio inputs, the effects processing, the space...
*Looks up Yamaha DMP7* =o] I recently traded my K2500rs for a TX802. I use Dexed to sysex patches into it, super easy and convenient.
So I got the quiz correct!!! You can tell when the sound is isolated, but in a large mix it would be hard to tell. Great video as usual, coming to Norway next year will pop in!
Thanks man! :)
Espen, any idea where one can get replacement crystals for the DX/TX series? And please don’t get heatstroke from your power plant!
Try Synthaur. Now that winter is coming I'm happy to have it to warm my house. ;-)
I believe the TX802 is 16 bit and the TF1 is 12 bit. The sounds do sound alike, but if you were to crank the gain a LOT and listen to the fade out of the sounds you would hear a big difference in the noise level and smoothness. Try it for us please.
You're right about that. I don't have anything more in terms of comparison planned at this point. Too many other things to do. ;-)
I have been forced to downsize to a flat so am still hoping that I'll be allowed some discretely disguised gear. I had planned prior to this to add a TX802. Assuming I'm able to keep the following do you reckon that my FS1R will cover my TX802 / DX72 needs if in 6 operator mode & I could simply use 1 of the 8 modules on the TX816 to get a normal DX7 mk1 sound? I think I got my FB01 before the TX81Z came out so I'll stick with that for 4 operator sounds. It's actually a favourite module & saves space as I rack it with another 1/2 unit , an EMU Proformance + piano , my main piano module.
Your FS1R will basically cover all FM needs, but nothing sounds like a DX7mk1 so a TX816 with just one TF1 will cover that. ;-)
Awesome!!!
Thanks! :)
Do you use any software or application to edit and organize patches for your synthesizers (maybe Ctrlr, Patchbase, Sounddiver)?
Most of the time I do not. I use Ctrlr occasionally (for programming) for some synths, but any software organizing or whatever I never use.
Mit der Hcard-702 Speicherkarte von Hypersynth kann ein Yamaha DX7-II, DX11 & DX-7S um bis zu 6400 Speicherplätze erweitert werden, die sich auf 100 Bänke verteilen. In 100 Bänken zu je 64 Sounds finden sich nicht nur die originalen Werkspresets des DX7-II, sondern auch 16 Bänke mit sorgfältig ausgewählten neuen Klängen.
Yeah, I tried to buy one for my DX7 and they were out of stock. I really want one of those cards though :( Do these modules have card slots like the keyboards do? My TX7 module doesn't have a card slot.
Automatische Übersetzung. Ich kann lesen, was du geschrieben hast, aber ich kann kein Deutsch.
Ja, ich habe versucht, einen für meinen DX7 zu kaufen, und sie waren nicht vorrätig. Ich möchte wirklich eine dieser Karten :( Haben diese Module Kartensteckplätze wie die Tastaturen? Mein TX7-Modul hat keinen Kartensteckplatz.
hello Espen, waht do you think about the Yamaha TG77 is that diferent to the older FM synths?
i have on and i look for a good Hardware Programmer you know a good one?
TG77 is great. I have no idea what's out there for it in terms of controlling, if any. ;-)
@@EspenKraft ok thank you for ask me that fast
Welp, a couple of months late ;) But again, another great video! I like the pedagogics, a brief overview of two pieces of fine hardware (again, since Yamaha = Japan, it is by default great! Unless proven otherwise :p ) ! I was genuinely surprised about how good they sounded...I guess having all of that "FM power" available by the touch of a key really does makes a difference! I was pleasantly surprised about the guest appearance of Anders! You should do some serious collabs some day ;)
That clip with him is from my Yamaha TX81Z video. Didn't you watch it? ;-) Him and I talk for over 30 minutes about that synth. I might do more synth-talk videos with him in the future. Not working together on music though, I don't do that. ;-) Cheers mate
@@EspenKraft Ahhh really? No I must confess that I have quite a back log here as there are so many great videos ;) Thank you however for pointing it out! I'll add it to my to-watch list! :) I understand the thing about not collabing on music though talking about the hardware, or going over it together, sharing each others experiences, takes on sounds (demoing), usability, reminiscing about how so or so sound was used in this or that tune etc. would be cool! :)
Some like to collab, some don't. I generally don't like to collab on anything where I have to share the creative decisions. I've done that for so many years in the past and I hated every minute of it. Primarily I like to work on my own, in solitude and with no one but myself to answer too. Again, in the creative process. ;-)
Espen Kraft, hello sir,
Can I get your advice on what type of vocal processing you use to get a more Neil Tenant Pet Shop Boys quality ?
My video "how to do 80s vocals" shows my vocal chain, but you can't get a Neil Tennant voice unless you have that voice to begin with. I have a similar vocal timbre, but that's my voice that does that, not the processing. I can sing like Dave Gahan if I want to too, but again, that's my voice, not the processing. ;-)
Espen Kraft thank you Espen! :). Yeah I get more of a David Gahan quality from my voice than Neil... but my voice dropped sooner than most of the guys growing up. Just didn’t end up with the same 💰 as Dave 😂
Imagine if each of those modules were little DX7 500 series modules? That would be so sweet I’d totally buy one
More full and rich sound the Tx816...
awesome.... 2nd :D both nice modules :D
I’ve done some dumb things in life, one was selling my TX816 with 8TF1s. Used MOTU Unisyn to manage the sounds.
Does the "TX802" have the same issue with most FM synthesizers of that time where you can't Tweak any Timbre control on the fly without retriggering the note gate?
I would assume so yes. Never thought about it.
@@EspenKraft Yeah, that's a problem I always had with FM synthesizers and it's a problem I have even with my Korg "volca FM". Where I can't hold down a note and tweek any sound perimeter? It only changes when I press another key!🎹😵😅
To me that totally fine, it doesn't bother me. ;-)
@@EspenKraft I know, right?🎹😵😅👍✌
Great demo! I'm on the look for a tall and open rack like the one you use for the FM tower. Can you share what brand it is?
Sure , I would be a rich man if I had dollar every time someone asks me that. ;-)
Check gear4music. com and search for 19" racks, it'll pop up down the results.
@@EspenKraft Thanks! I took a good listen and looked at the sound files to see if I could hear/see the 12-bit vs 16-bit FM. Not really ;-)
I did notice that drumtrack was shared, bit for bit (except the reverb) - the drums cancelled out completely when playing both files and phasereversing one.
In some patches the 816 sounds brighter but I suspect it could be because of the different velocity response of the keyboards.
What a rack! Yum...
Yes maybe the 802 is a more "human" machine but I dream of a 816, the Absolute King of the TXs, since... hm... 37 years.
You play them with a Roland keyboard, which probably goes up to velocity level 127.
Do both Yam racks only go to level 100 like the Mark 1 DX7, or was the TX802 already capable of distinguishing up to 127?
What happens when you hit the ceiling of over 100 with the TX816 sounds?
I really don't know. I was never very concerned with this. I f I like the sound I hear I when I play I don't care what the MIDI velocity is. If I don't like the sound I just go into that patch and edit it until I do. That DX7 mk1 velocity = 100 never bothered me one bit. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Like that approach. With good keybeds from the 8ties and 9ties one seldom hammers into the top range anyway, unlike these new midi-controller only flimsies that go straight up to the top. (You mentioned the different velocity curve as well). THX for your excellent videos.
moon theme from Ducktales ♥️
Hi Espen Kraft, could you tell me where I can get those patches or if you could share them please?
These are all patches that are easily found online. I just dumped a couple of banks into the modules while doing this video.
There is a patch there called” Windens.1” that i like particularly, sounds very expressive. I’ll have a look from those found online..
I just got my TX816, and some of the modules are monophonic and playing one note at a time, and a slide between each note. Is there any idea why?
It can be different reasons for this. Bad batteries in the TF modules. I suggest you clear out all modules. Check manual page 34 for this and reload the factory presets (sysex) into each modules. These can be found online. I show the sysex load procedure in my video.
@@EspenKraft Awesome. Turns out, many of the modules are coated in some awful brownish-red goo, and it's created a film causing most of them to be monophonic in nature, as well as completely distorting the sound. I am going to have to manually clean each one up, which will be *so* much fun. I do appreciate you helping me, as I did end up removing all the batteries and finding the problematic TF modules.
Appreciate it!!
@@EspenKraft Alrighty... I'm now on my second module to diagnose here... I set the output volume to 3 and the sound is completely distorted and awful. I recorded a video of it. The FM chip HAS to work, since when I change sounds on my DX7, the sounds do have different tonality. It's just completely disoriented and distorted.
th-cam.com/users/shortsWjZf0ZSkTF8
Heh, I guessed the mixes correctly in the last video.
That TX802 menu screen looks almost exactly like the Yamaha V50 synth that came out a couple years later in 1989 (I think). Have you ever tried that one? (It's the only synth I own.) (I'm pretty new to all this, love your vids!)
The V50 was the new dawn of FM synthesis after the DX/TX line and expanded on everything.
Had a TX416 for a long time, ended up doing a recap job and moving on after picking up an 802. Wildly easier to use the 802. Slightly altered patch/panorama across the TF1s is The One Trick that the big box has over anything.
What caps did you go with?
@@xfloodcasual8124 phew, million years ago... I don't remember the series but I'm sure they were panasonics.
@@soupforare I've been recapping a TG77 and replaced some on the digital board and when I turned it on it the OS was completely hosed. :( I replaced the originals but no dice. Was it a mistake to mess with the digital board? Have no idea what happened.
@@soupforare Oh figured it out! Needed to do a factory reset.
hey could you please demo the ys200?
I just had a batery holder mod on mine and I love the sound of this machine so much! It is pretty warm for being only 4operator and it definitely has potential for sounding even better with all the free sounds online for it.
Don't have one. ;-)
The choice is easy. Buy a Yamaha MODX or Montage. You can convert sound libraries from either the TX816 or TX802 into these new synths, plus enjoy the new FM-X engine.
For some of us it's not that easy. It's like a kit-car or replica. Even if it's made by the same company, it's not the same if you want the original real thing. Beside that, the ModX does not sound the same.
@@EspenKraft It's plenty close enough for me. My uses are for live performance in a rock band.
I first replaced my DX7 (TX7 module) with a soft synth, and even that was fine. The sounds I used in my bands were ridiculously close. Now the MODX can do the job, plus expanded FM synthesis with FM-X.
Like anything, it would depend on your specific use.
In a rock band, like Woody's challenge of soft synths vs hardware synths, it would be very difficult to distinguish. With the songs we cover, even if we used all the original keyboards of every song we played, there would still be slight differences anyway. The MODX is plenty good enough for the job of capturing the character of the sounds.
"The Yamaha FM Converter (for Montage/MODX keyboards) allows you to use contents from the DX7, DX7II, TX802 and TX216/816 on your new Montage or MODX, instantly expanding the creative possibilities with thousands of additional sound" This would likely be good enough solution for the vast amount of synth players. But like any synth, only the original revision will be good enough for some people. There will be slight differences, but they will generally take some serious effort to hear those differences. The Montage/MODX engine is an excellent reproduction. But it's still a reproduction.
Sure, but if you WANT the original... ;-) It takes me 5 minutes to go to the store to get milk, in both my cars. But it's a lot more fun taking the Ford Mustang '69 than the 2015 Ford Fiesta.
@@EspenKraft I don't think one person in the audience would pick up on the difference in the mix of my live band if I alternated chords between the original or the Montage/MODX even if the audience were all musicians. "Easily" the best choice for most people. I've replaced several of my synths with replacements that are compatible with the original sounds in either modern hardware or software, and yet, I still feel like I have my original synths.
On a platinum album, maybe.
But it's not ALL about the audience when you desire vintage gear, in fact, for many it's the experience of the vintage gear itself that inspires creativity. MY music is directly inspired by the nostalgia I get from using it. If you forced me to make a track using the ModX it would be done, I am a pro after all, but it wouldn't have my heart in it.
So we use vintage gear because it affects us in a positive way. You use modern gear because that's what YOU like.
Coming to a vintage hardware channel and pointing at the ModX won't win many over. ;-)
why is there a shadow box over the screen on the 802 when your running your finger over it?
I added some contrast in post to the 802 display so it would stand out clearer to those watching the video. ;-)
I know they're quite different but do you have a TX81Z and what do you think about it?
Haven't you seen my 22min epic video about it? ;-)
@@EspenKraft No! Or maybe I forgot. Searching frantically for it now!
If you watch this video, I link to relevant videos at the end, So also the 81Z video. I always do that. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Of course! I had completely forgotten about this one. With the bottles of Dr. Pepper at the end! th-cam.com/video/BjxuzeVXCDU/w-d-xo.html.
Nice! Sounds like a Jan Hammer Miami Vice tune at around 9:00...
Thanks! You should check out the commercial release of that track then. It's called "Sheeba" and you can find it through the links in the video description. It's on Spotify and other digital platforms. ;-)
I have heard that one on Spotify.... Reminds me a lot of the first part of ”The Trial and the Search”. Excellent!
Cheers!
How much was that rack back in the day? Heaps i remember
Hello Espen, could you make a comparison with the Yamaha MODX
I don't have a MODX. Besides, the MODX does not interest me very much. ;-)
I wonder what is the most unique or spectacular external effect for DX7, TX802, TX816. Is it Strymon BigSky, Ensoniq DP4+, Lexicon 480L or other? Sometimes I think dry is the best. Maybe in the near future there will be possibility and time to create an external effects video comparision on Your channel 🙂? This will help me make my decision.
I've always been fond of the AMS RMX16 which I think is the most iconic 80s reverb there is, but I use the reverb/effect I feel suits the sound best in the production/arrangement it is part of. Sometimes that might be an Alesis MicroVerb. ;-)
@@EspenKraft Yes, It depends of style, arrangement, scale and feel. Thank you. AMS RMX 16 is awesome. Maybe I try first with UAD emulation 🙂
The problem with the UAD is that is doesn't feel quite right to me. However, the original costs a lot, and maintenance can be cruel on these. ;-)
816 sounds rounder, 802 more brilliant. I prefer the 816…sound.
But I think I prefer the 802 interface 😅