It's crazy your mentioned this because I remember being 5,6,7,8 year's old and rolling with my older brother around to all his friends garages and they all were building their own small block's. Sending the bare block out and just reassembled them using the stock crank and all of them forever having as you say a time bomb. Then just do it all again. Love this video. Truly priceless information.
In your particular case of turbo charging an engine, the "heavier" rod would actually be preferable for the sake of strength/durability. As long as the rotating assembly has been statically and dynamically balanced, rod weight should only affect low-end acceleration and then only minimally. The extra stresses turbo charging an engine puts on connecting rods are something auto manufacturers have taken into consideration, as evidenced by the use of heavier rods in early draw-through turbo applications. The Corvair went to a larger displacement, 145 to 164 C.I., in late '64 and saw an increase in rod size/weight. Physics doesn't discriminate.
I’m not an engine builder, just a mechanic but it seems to me if your crank is balanced and your rods/piston sets are within 10 grams of each other isn’t the assembly still pretty much balanced?
I switched to Gen IV rods and came up with similar weights that you got by using a postal scale. I was told by an experienced engine shop that more than 5 grams would throw the balance out. 30 years ago I threw together a 350 engine, and it had a vibration in it around 850 RPMs. Couldn't keep the belts on the water pump, and alternator, the bolt on yoke on the transmission kept coming loose, and the oil pan bolts wouldn't stay tight. It turns out that somehow I used a 305 crankshaft. Even though they have the same stroke the bob weights are different. Can't remember exactly but it was around 1850 for the 350, and 1900 something for the 305. I had my 6.0 engine balanced because of the weight difference, they added weight to the crank to balance it. Being that we didn't have the alignment fixture for the relucter wheel, weight was added to the flywheel/ flexplate because the relucter needed to be removed. They made an alignment mark so I put the flywheel back in the same place, hope I never need to replace it. The moral of the story is Get your engine balanced! When they balance the rods, a special fixture is used so they can weigh big end separately from small end. One is rotating, and the other is reciprocating, 100% rotating, and 50% reciprocating
I’m piecing together an Iron Block LS 5.7 now and plan on having it balanced. Playing with my Desk Top Dyno I have a solid combo making 544hp NA then add boost. 👍😎🙏🏻
I found the block on marketplace, already bored to the stock LS1 bore size. Yes it would need a bore of at least .118”. The Iron/LS1 is a pretty common build; I just hope the cylinders hold up to boost 🙏🏻
William Ardoin I didn't question the Gen 3 block... But running Gen 4 pistons/rods on a Gen3 crank will wear the bearings because they're way out of specification. I'm not saying it won't run just it won't last as long as a properly balanced assembly. I mention in the video if you don't mind breaking it by all means run it.
William Ardoin well then, the information doesn't apply to your build. The engine going into the Typhoon is a late build date 2003, it had the 24 tooth crank with the Gen 4 internals score! Pleasantly surprised! Did you have to use the 58 tooth in your build?
William Ardoin I weighed the piston pins tonight, the Gen 3 is 163 grams and the shorter Gen 4 are 150 grams. I wasn't able to video yet, I didn't have the Gen 4 pin clips to weigh and I have to clean the Gen 3 piston. Interesting stuff.
While the total weight may be different, you're not considering the dynamics of the rotating assembly. For example, the big end of the rod is rotating with the crankshaft, the small end is not..its motion is linear. There is some cancellation of the weight difference of the big ends due to the fact they oppose each other even on a cross plane crankshaft. The kinematic motion of the piston/rod assembly is likewise cancelled due to opposing throws, so there's more to this than simply weighing the rods and saying it's a big difference.
Chris Cross Good feedback I appreciate it, I was using information from the machine shops and local speed shop engine builders recommendations. Some people want to build an engine 100% correct for the intended use. Yes there are differences in weight distribution on the connecting rods, however when you’re done all the rods will weigh the same. Also there’s over balance and under balanced assembly theory. Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it! JD
you have to weigh the pin your changing as well. from a machinist, drag racer, shop owner of over 30 years. LS is different breed for sure with many possible combos. even this old machinist had to learn many a lesson about the LS platform
I think it’s in a different video where I weigh the pistons and pins. There’s a diameter, length and weight difference for the piston pins between press-pin and floating. Iirc the 6.0 pistons have a longer pin than the 4.8/5.3/5.7 but I can’t guarantee it’s true. I really wish I had run the Gen 4 rods/pistons in my current 4.8 Turbo build, I cheaped out and didn’t want to pay for the balancing. JD
You could probably find a whole gen4 short block for less than the cost to balance your assembly. I understand you get vr wheel issues but it's really something to consider, especially because the bushed rods need captive piston pins.
Timothy Bayliss The pins aren’t interchangeable between the press vs floating designs, sucks because you can’t run the Gen 4 floating rods with a factory LS1 piston. If you were building a true performance engine intended for sustained high rpm use it would need a precision balance, +- $175.00-$200.00 in our area. The factory used a +-4 gram median balance, meaning from the established median weight +- 4 grams, so there can be as much as an 8 gram variance in the piston/rod assemblies. Not horrible but definitely not optimal either. Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! JD
@@HeadFlowInc Your right about a having a proper balancing job done. I just don't know if it would be worth It with stock Gen3 stuff. It's so good already, but if you were serious, a bore with aftermarket pistons on a factory gen4 crank/rod combo that's properly balanced will fill the needs of just about everyone that drives on the street. The gen4 short blocks are so tough, even most racers won't need more than that, and at that level the stock sleeves are starting to sweat. I didn't realise how much variance there is in the factory balance, +-4g isn't bad, but that leave a lot of room for improvement.
What I don’t understand is when you look up reman crankshafts 99-04 they are all the same part number even with the cross over year with floating rods.
Busa0069 Exactly the problem! Even the local machine shops don’t have a way yet to determine what CID the #16 crankshafts come from. We have noticed there is a slight difference in the clocking of the counter weights between the 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0 when standing on end side by side. I hope to see if there’s possibly a slight weight difference but it might be a stretch. If you find any definitive information on identifying the CID for the 3.622” stroke cranks! 👍
HeadFlowInc Probably explains some of the hit or miss reliability of gen3 remanufactured LS engines, if they don’t know what crank their running kind of hard to tell how long the motor will last.
I have gen 4 rods in a gen3 motor/crank with a turbo. over 4,000 miles. Yes, you will have weird engine vibrations from doing this. anything over 2700 rpm for me starts to feel like a medium driveshaft vibration but its actually the motor.
I've done it on a 5.7L LS1, But got her rebalanced as I give it death every time I drive it. She's hits 7500rpm all day every day for 4 yrs an still going strong NA of course & she's killed 3 4l60e trans so far. 4l80e going in her very soon just have another 2k to save up.
I think much more important are weight difference between same con rods. Also some engine configurations do not need bob weight for crank balancing so conrod and piston weight are not very important if they are same weight to each other.
Edvinas J. Can you explain which rotating assemblies do not require balancing? Balancing the rotating assembly is the process of "Counter Balancing" the counter weights of the crankshaft to account for the weight of the Piston/Pin, connecting Rod, and the Rings used in order to reduce Harmonics and Vibration.
Sorry for my bad English. Balancing are necessary for all engines but for example 4 cylinder inline engine crankshaft are balanced without using bob weighs. Pistons and rods still need to be same weight all 4 in maximum 5g difference between but it makes almost no difference for same crank if all 4 conrods and pistons will be used for example 400g or 600g because like I said crankshaft are balanced without bob weights.
It is because 4 cylinder is 90degree apart and crank it self has opposite weights to counteract each other so if crank is balanced it self and if pistons and con rods weight the same to each other in less than 5g difference they also counter act it self so it makes no difference for crank balance if they more heavy or less.
Its because of the configuration of the cylinders, inline 6 is balanced perfectly in the first and second modes for both moment and shake. The engineers didnt do this, it is a by product of the configuration.
My question is this , if your swapping out rods and pistons and the weights are within spec across the 8 used in comparison to reciprocating balance then why not ? or are you saying that because the rod / piston combination of the stronger set up is that much heavier that you will some how damage the crank or the bearings designed for the stranger rod / piston combination am I missing something here ...
mike c What he is saying is that If you swap in the gen 4 stuff without getting it balanced you may run into issues of it being so out of balance that it may eventually wear out a bearing early or cause other issues.
C&B Lay Lightest Piston/Rod combo helps reduce opposing forces at higher rpm. The heavier your assembly bob-weight is when spin balancing an assembly ultimately limits strength. Grams are multiplied exponentially when the assembly increases with RPM’s. Both inertial and kinetic energy increase. JD
Doug Blocks are the same, you can mix n match Gen3 & Gen4 internals but remember there’s a difference in the reluctor wheels 24 tooth and 58 tooth on the crankshaft sensor. Also many Gen4 move the cam sensor to the front cover. Make sure the reluctor matched your setup ECU
@@HeadFlowInc everything from 05 and on had the newer rod design with floating pistons however gm did start using the floating pistons and thicker rods as early as 2004 maybe even earlier mid 2004 def had gen 4 rods and floating pistons
Ok I understand your point but did u weigh out every single rod and piston and calculate the difference across the board with a complete rotating assembly
Xavier Barksdale Yes we have, each assembly varied +- 8 grams, verifying 2 things: 1. Each assembly was heavy and 2. Factory rotating assemblies are not precision balanced. GM uses a +- 4 gram tolerance based off a mean/median weight to match the piston and rod assemblies. Each assembly is not precision spin balanced like a race engine. I did see some reports the high end hand assembled Corvette engines may be precision balanced but I have not verified this information.
Xavier Barksdale Part of my yet unproven theory surrounding heavier Gen 4 vs Gen 3. If you could find a 100% verified Gen 3 6.0 crankshaft, you could run Gen 4 5.3 pistons and rods on it and be balanced under 2grams per assembly building a 5.3. Problem is, nobody offers any reliable was to differentiate a 5.3 crank from a 6.0 🤷♂️. Even the 5.7 cranks share the same part number as the 5.3 & 6.0 but a true LS1 5.7 crank has gun drilled journals. (Remember the theory the Corvette engines may be precision balanced)... 🤔
BolognaTheTiger Good for Matt, he’s also blown up more engines than most people have owned and doesn’t care. But, if you watch his current videos he prefers to use untouched high mileage factory engines now! 👍😉🤔
Yeah I've noticed. And the only reason i brought it up was because in his most recent Q&A he was asked by a viewer about running gen 4 pistons and rods in a gen 3 with the gen 3 crank without balancing, and just said it would be fine, he's done it quite a few times. Mainly I was wanting your take on it and got it. Thank you for replying. I like Q&A's as much as the next guy however it's always nice to get a reply. Love your channel btw!!!! Thanks again!!!
BolognaTheTiger It’s 100% proven you can run the Gen 4 piston/rods on a Gen 3 crankshaft, it’s been done a lot as you know. I even offer, if you can find a verified Gen 3 6.0 crankshaft the Gen 4 5.3 pistons/rods will work great, within 2grams of being balanced! 👍 I think my position on this topic is it’s fine to run what you like, it’s just not 100% correct and won’t run as good or as long as a properly balanced engine. I had feedback showing old school SBC were run with the same or more out of balance issue for decades. 🤔. Thanks again for the feedback and for watching! 👍👍
I have a question...could I put a gen lll 5.3l into my gen lv with a 5.3...and if so what would I have to do. I've heard change knock sensor location and reluctor wheel
Josh Cogswell Depends which version G4 you have early or later. Some of the early crossovers between G3 to G4 still had the Rear cam sensor and 24 tooth. They moved the cam sensor from the top/rear of the block to the timing cover/driver side, easy fix $20.00 harness extension. Now, for the change from 58 tooth to 24 tooth, you’ll need to look into the boxes they sell to convert the signal.
drewnashty I'll try to gather up the Pistons, pins, snap rings, and rings to do a weight comparison. The rings should be the same weight as long as the bore is the same.
kenneth gonzalez 4.8 Rods can only be run with a 4.8 crankshaft!!! You can mix & match 4.8/5.3 “pistons” with no issue. The 4.8 has its own unique crankshaft stroke and connecting rod length. 3.27” stroke 6.275” rods. The 5.3, 5.7 & 6.0 all use the same crankshaft stroke and rod length. 3.622” stroke 6.098” rods.
do you think aftermarket piston and rods have this same issue? im trying to bore my 5.3(gen 3) to a 3.820 bore im looking at gen 4 rods and aftermarket pistons on a gen 3 crank as a possibility also looking at summit racing forged piston and rod set on a gen 3 crank
Most aftermarket pistons have a better drain back setup. Definitely check the design, specifically what it looks like with the support rails installed. On the pistons, if the budget allows go with a forged piston. I like the Gen 4 rods but even they get scary above 800 wheel Hp, they can live or not depending on the tune and weight of the car etc. I’m slowly building an “Iron” LS1 aka iron G3 5.3 bored to 3.900”+ with a 2005 6.0 crank and Rods. I’m undecided yet on either oem 2005 LS6 pistons or a forged piston like the Summit Racing. Budget budget 👍
Chad Jennings The 4.8/5.3 use the same block! You can use either the 4.8 or 5.3 pistons in either CID as long as the pins match the rods, Press-Pin vs Fliating-pins. All you will need to build a 5.3 is to get a 5.3/5.7/6.0 crankshaft w/ 3.622” stroke and a set of 6.098” rods from any of the same. (I recommend using the stronger pistons/rods w/floating-pins) The 4.8 has its own crankshaft and rods: 3.27” stroke and longer 6.275” rods, neither can be used in a 5.3. 1. Good 4.8/5.3 block 2. 3.622” stroke crankshaft 3. 6.098” rods 4. 4.8/5.3 pistons
@@HeadFlowInc could I use the 4.8 flat tops in a 5.3 if so it would up compression immediately. I've read it can and read it can't. I'd like to see a finished product and see if it's worth the extra money.
@@HeadFlowInc are the rods/pistons and crank matched? I am considering stroking a 4.8 to 5.3. My engine has gen 4 rods and is 24x engine. I have a line on a free cracked gen 3 5.3 short block. I don't know what rods it has. I was considering using that crank (could be gen 3) and sourcing gen 4 rods and transferring my original flat gen 4 pistons. Daily Driver. too risky?
ULB SRY Engine balance is not the same thing. Equalizing the weight of all 8 piston and rod assemblies is only 1 part of balancing the “rotating” assembly. The crankshaft has “counter weights” to offset the force of the piston/rod assembly as it spins in the block. Balancing the counter weight to the bob-weight or piston/rod eliminates damaging vibration and harmonics. People regularly don’t understand the difference. You can run an out of balance engine it just won’t last as long and depending on power level could break the crankshaft. The best factory combination to run that’s close to being properly balanced: Gen 4 5.3 piston/rods using a Gen 3 6.0 crankshaft. Theoretically is less than 2 grams a match. The problem is, none of the machine shops have any data on whether GM actually balanced the 6.0’s to the heavier assembly. It’s an ongoing process to verify the balance for each CID.
ULB SRY There are some SCAT I-beams that are close to being useable out of the box, but it would still not be balanced. H-beams are pretty heavy and require balancing. I say this using factory piston weights, if you could somehow get a really light weight Forged piston to offset the weight increase of the H-beam to be less than +- 10 grams you could try it. I haven’t seen any combination of H-beams/pistons that equal the factory bob-weight/piston rod assemblies. Keep in mind, we’re talking engine Math on how to build a high end assembly to make it live. A properly balanced engine will make more power and handle the power until you reach the mechanical limit of the components used. JD
Warship C6 All Gen 4 rotating assembly, as long as it was mated together at the factory it would for sure be fine. If we operate on the presumption the factory used a “Median” bob weight for the assemblies it should also be ok. But all this is assuming a lot; it really would be better to have it checked. Another issue to verify is the reluctor tooth count. The Gen 3 should have a 24 tooth and the Gen 4 05-Up should have a 58 tooth. The 03-04’s could be either must verify.
HeadFlowInc thanks a lot man. I’m building a ls for my f body and I’m doing some weird things with it. I just want to make sure everything I have is going to work.
I think the LS uses neutral balanced flexplate/flywheels and dampeners so it’s not affected. Sorry for the delay, I wasn’t notified of your post and just found it! JD
SHOE GOD 23 Yes as long as both the Piston and the Rod attach the same way. Press-fit and Floating can Not be mixed! Both parts have to be either Press or Floating. JD
@@dangerousfreedom4965 They are longer rods but the crank is different too. The pistons have the same Compression height. Keep the rods with the crank and you can change the pistons. People are using 5.7 pistons in an 4.8 block bored to accept, crank and rods.
No I did not remove any bushings during the weight testing. You can see the Gen 4 rods are substantially thicker castings compared to the Gen 3. If you have a spare Gen 4 rod I’d like to see the weight difference w/w/o the small end bushing. 🤔🤔🤔
Bonafied-pro Mtz Factory has them Forward, because the LS rods don’t have a “chamfer” like older engines they could be run either way. I generally just point the dimples forward 👍
I’m considering checking the ring gap on the stock lm7. I hope I don’t ruin things by attempting this and not just leaving it in. I have the block opened up to heads and oil pan off on stand. Idk man 😐
How much boost? If your not going to exceed 10-12# it might be fine, it may live on 20# it’s hard to say without checking. You really only need to gap the top ring, it’s made of steel factory so it’s safe to r&r for gapping. Some people like to lightly hone or bust the glaze on the cylinders while it’s apart but not 100% necessary.
@@HeadFlowInc was considering 14-20lbs tops. That’s full go, not summer street driven where I’d like to see 12-15 max. Hard if not impossible to see 600 wheel on pump 93 through turbo 400, would like to see max effort 700 wheel if I went to strip. I’m just trying not to make mistakes sir and not have the regrets of ruining my stuff due to chancing my ability at the ring gap on 160k engine. Thank you
@@timweb1510 I understand completely! I’d probably look at gapping the rings or at least checking them. Some people find the rings are already wide just from miles. At 20# I guess you’d be looking at +- .030” top and .028” second ring. TH400 factor 23% driveline loss, so 779hp crank is 600 whp or 909hp crankshaft is 700 whp. JD
On installing the gen 4 rods which way do the dots go. I'm rebuilding my LQ9 6.0. Vin N. I need to make sure I installed my rods correctly. As of now they're installed but not torqued and I have the dimples facing opposite one another. So one side like bores 1 and two the dimples on the rods, one faces the front of the engine the other faces the rear. Please correct me if I'm wrong so I can fix this before I start torquing everything down. Thanks.
loveto livetruely The rebuilder book I have shows the Gen 4 rods “All” Dimples on the rods face rearward. The “dots” on the pistons naturally all go forward. Good luck on your build, it looks like your going to have fun! JD
@@HeadFlowInc just to be sure because I've asked this question on several forums and I think I'm confusing people. I'm inquiring about the direction of the dots on the side of the rod shaft. Someone made a reply on one of the forums about dimples on the bottom of the rod/ rod cap where the bearings are. There are no dimples at the bottom of my rods only the dot or whatever it's called on the sides. Again gen 4 rods
Don't listen to this video he has no clue of what he is talking about. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but unfortunately he does not understand the concept and also does not do math very well and if you do the math he is talking about and trying to do in his head you will find he is not even doing that correctly I'm not trying to insult I'm just stating facts.
Normally I ignore trolls but your post made me laugh! Before you challenge anyone with experience you might want to do some research. Also punctuation is needed to avoid run on sentences. Dang 0-2 better luck next time enjoy! JD
Chupa Cabra I’d say not very much, the profile of the small end is small same as an aftermarket rod. The LS rods don’t have a balance pad on the small end like older rods. Interesting question though, are you finding weight distribution issues while trying to balance and weight match? JD
@@HeadFlowInc Just thinking ahead. I couldn't visualize what 40 grams of material removal would look like but assumed it was too tall an order on these rods.
People run them all the time without balancing. I wanted to point out its not the right way to build an engine but seems to hold up ok. The Gen 4 rods are far superior; add in the fact the Gen 4 pistons are lighter and have full floating piston pins is a bonus. JD
steven mcclelland Yep, the 4.8 has its own crankshaft/Rods stroke 3.2662”? Rod length 6.2750” What’s cool is you can interchange 4.8 and 5.3 pistons! Pretty handy 👍👍👍
Peter Fraumeni Iron block 5.7! I’m tempted to Have one of my blocks bored out To a standard LS one size. Dang that totally sucks at yours came apart I wonder if that was an RPM issue or a piston broke first?
That was an 07 Gen4 aluminum 5.3 (LH6) IWas able to salvage heads, cam, lifters, timing set and oil pump, not much else. Even destroyed a C6 low profile oil pan, damn that hurt, new motor too. Went 7100 and broke
Gen 3 are press-fit piston pin and Gen 4 are full-floating piston pin. You can’t mix & match Gen 3 & 4 pistons/rods. Yes the pistons will need to match the rods you want to use. Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! JD
So try to find pins that are 40 grams lighter than stock. Lol. Plus you have the weight of the keepers for the floaters which is probably 4-5 grams for 2.
Don Rutter iirc the piston pin snap rings weigh +- 1gram each ring or 2g per piston. I have a video showing the weights. A 6.0 Richard is building now has a Gen 3 crankshaft with Gen 4 pistons/rods, they had the assembly balanced at Mann’s Speed in KC; it needed Mallory metal to balance. Also, the pistons must have been way off, they had to remove a lot of material to balance the pistons.
Bradley Hayes And what if your ECU is all setup for 24 tooth? I guess if you could afford it you could switch to the 58 tooth signal or buy the Lingenfelter crankshaft signal converter $$$. There’s also some early crossover crankshafts Late 2003~2005ish made for the Gen 4 pistons/rods on a 24 tooth crankshaft. Probably hard to find and even harder to verify authenticity. Or just spend the $150.00-200.00 and have the assembly balanced. OEM assemblies are not precision race balanced, So having a Real balance job is far superior! 👍
MidwestCatz Feel Free to contact your machine shop and get clarification on the limits for a balanced assembly. Your statement tells everyone you have no idea what your talking about. But everyone has to start somewhere good luck! 👍🍀
MidwestCatz Lesson #1 any weight change +- 10 grams per assembly should be re-balanced. This would include both balancing all assemblies to a median weight and spin balancing the assembly. 👍
How do people run gen 4 Rods in a motor on 21psi and have no issues ? Do you have any data to back up all this damage or mirrors shaken off trucks at idle. LoL
MidwestCatz Show me the no issues! Nobody can say they threw Gen 4 pistons/rods in a Gen 3 and it’s lasting very long especially at 21# Boost. I never said it won’t run, only clarifying it’s not going to last as long as a properly balanced assembly. Most of the people including Sloppy Mechanics end up breaking, bending rods and rebuilding before the engine runs long enough to matter. In the video I say, If you don’t mind pulling engines and rebuilding/replacing them then “Send It”! Nothing in life is free, don’t get fooled! 😉
Someone sell this guy some speed🐌
Playback speed 1.5x speed. You're welcome
@@SouthernSpeedVideos 1.5x that's cute...😂 had it maxed out to 2x and still was a bit slow
It's crazy your mentioned this because I remember being 5,6,7,8 year's old and rolling with my older brother around to all his friends garages and they all were building their own small block's. Sending the bare block out and just reassembled them using the stock crank and all of them forever having as you say a time bomb. Then just do it all again. Love this video. Truly priceless information.
Paul Harvey ???? Nice info but 15 minutes to say what could have been said in 3 minutes, lol.
Its so aggravating
wanna have some fun? Go to settings and play at 1.5 speed
If you are building one of these every detail is helpful.
In your particular case of turbo charging an engine, the "heavier" rod would actually be preferable for the sake of strength/durability. As long as the rotating assembly has been statically and dynamically balanced, rod weight should only affect low-end acceleration and then only minimally. The extra stresses turbo charging an engine puts on connecting rods are something auto manufacturers have taken into consideration, as evidenced by the use of heavier rods in early draw-through turbo applications. The Corvair went to a larger displacement, 145 to 164 C.I., in late '64 and saw an increase in rod size/weight. Physics doesn't discriminate.
I’m not an engine builder, just a mechanic but it seems to me if your crank is balanced and your rods/piston sets are within 10 grams of each other isn’t the assembly still pretty much balanced?
Valid piece of information to help with engine longevity. It doesn't add that much to cost of rebuild
William Brown Thanks for watching! JD
I switched to Gen IV rods and came up with similar weights that you got by using a postal scale. I was told by an experienced engine shop that more than 5 grams would throw the balance out. 30 years ago I threw together a 350 engine, and it had a vibration in it around 850 RPMs. Couldn't keep the belts on the water pump, and alternator, the bolt on yoke on the transmission kept coming loose, and the oil pan bolts wouldn't stay tight. It turns out that somehow I used a 305 crankshaft. Even though they have the same stroke the bob weights are different. Can't remember exactly but it was around 1850 for the 350, and 1900 something for the 305. I had my 6.0 engine balanced because of the weight difference, they added weight to the crank to balance it. Being that we didn't have the alignment fixture for the relucter wheel, weight was added to the flywheel/ flexplate because the relucter needed to be removed. They made an alignment mark so I put the flywheel back in the same place, hope I never need to replace it. The moral of the story is Get your engine balanced! When they balance the rods, a special fixture is used so they can weigh big end separately from small end. One is rotating, and the other is reciprocating, 100% rotating, and 50% reciprocating
I’m piecing together an Iron Block LS 5.7 now and plan on having it balanced. Playing with my Desk Top Dyno I have a solid combo making 544hp NA then add boost. 👍😎🙏🏻
You bored it out .120 over? @@HeadFlowInc
I found the block on marketplace, already bored to the stock LS1 bore size. Yes it would need a bore of at least .118”. The Iron/LS1 is a pretty common build; I just hope the cylinders hold up to boost 🙏🏻
Yes my truck is running gen3 block gen4 rotating assy with 16psi loves it
William Ardoin I didn't question the Gen 3 block... But running Gen 4 pistons/rods on a Gen3 crank will wear the bearings because they're way out of specification. I'm not saying it won't run just it won't last as long as a properly balanced assembly. I mention in the video if you don't mind breaking it by all means run it.
William Ardoin I'm making a video to show any difference in the pistons, piston pins, and ring weight.
I used the crank also so everyting is in spec
William Ardoin well then, the information doesn't apply to your build. The engine going into the Typhoon is a late build date 2003, it had the 24 tooth crank with the Gen 4 internals score! Pleasantly surprised!
Did you have to use the 58 tooth in your build?
William Ardoin I weighed the piston pins tonight, the Gen 3 is 163 grams and the shorter Gen 4 are 150 grams. I wasn't able to video yet, I didn't have the Gen 4 pin clips to weigh and I have to clean the Gen 3 piston. Interesting stuff.
While the total weight may be different, you're not considering the dynamics of the rotating assembly. For example, the big end of the rod is rotating with the crankshaft, the small end is not..its motion is linear. There is some cancellation of the weight difference of the big ends due to the fact they oppose each other even on a cross plane crankshaft. The kinematic motion of the piston/rod assembly is likewise cancelled due to opposing throws, so there's more to this than simply weighing the rods and saying it's a big difference.
Chris Cross Good feedback I appreciate it, I was using information from the machine shops and local speed shop engine builders recommendations. Some people want to build an engine 100% correct for the intended use.
Yes there are differences in weight distribution on the connecting rods, however when you’re done all the rods will weigh the same. Also there’s over balance and under balanced assembly theory.
Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it! JD
you have to weigh the pin your changing as well. from a machinist, drag racer, shop owner of over 30 years. LS is different breed for sure with many possible combos. even this old machinist had to learn many a lesson about the LS platform
I think it’s in a different video where I weigh the pistons and pins. There’s a diameter, length and weight difference for the piston pins between press-pin and floating. Iirc the 6.0 pistons have a longer pin than the 4.8/5.3/5.7 but I can’t guarantee it’s true.
I really wish I had run the Gen 4 rods/pistons in my current 4.8 Turbo build, I cheaped out and didn’t want to pay for the balancing. JD
Great video thanks for the knowledge
You could probably find a whole gen4 short block for less than the cost to balance your assembly. I understand you get vr wheel issues but it's really something to consider, especially because the bushed rods need captive piston pins.
Timothy Bayliss The pins aren’t interchangeable between the press vs floating designs, sucks because you can’t run the Gen 4 floating rods with a factory LS1 piston.
If you were building a true performance engine intended for sustained high rpm use it would need a precision balance, +- $175.00-$200.00 in our area.
The factory used a +-4 gram median balance, meaning from the established median weight +- 4 grams, so there can be as much as an 8 gram variance in the piston/rod assemblies. Not horrible but definitely not optimal either.
Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! JD
@@HeadFlowInc Your right about a having a proper balancing job done. I just don't know if it would be worth It with stock Gen3 stuff. It's so good already, but if you were serious, a bore with aftermarket pistons on a factory gen4 crank/rod combo that's properly balanced will fill the needs of just about everyone that drives on the street. The gen4 short blocks are so tough, even most racers won't need more than that, and at that level the stock sleeves are starting to sweat. I didn't realise how much variance there is in the factory balance, +-4g isn't bad, but that leave a lot of room for improvement.
What I don’t understand is when you look up reman crankshafts 99-04 they are all the same part number even with the cross over year with floating rods.
Busa0069 Exactly the problem! Even the local machine shops don’t have a way yet to determine what CID the #16 crankshafts come from.
We have noticed there is a slight difference in the clocking of the counter weights between the 5.3, 5.7 and 6.0 when standing on end side by side. I hope to see if there’s possibly a slight weight difference but it might be a stretch. If you find any definitive information on identifying the CID for the 3.622” stroke cranks! 👍
HeadFlowInc Probably explains some of the hit or miss reliability of gen3 remanufactured LS engines, if they don’t know what crank their running kind of hard to tell how long the motor will last.
I have gen 4 rods in a gen3 motor/crank with a turbo. over 4,000 miles. Yes, you will have weird engine vibrations from doing this. anything over 2700 rpm for me starts to feel like a medium driveshaft vibration but its actually the motor.
We’ve put Gen 4 pistons/rods in a Gen 3 5.3 I can’t really tell if there’s vibration for sure. Turbo makes it fun! Good luck have fun! JD
Currently at this point in my build and wondering if i will be ok without balancing ?
@@ingloriousJ1108 have it balanced
The cranks between gen 3 and gen 4 are the same part number if all the rods you use weigh the same it's the same stress on the crank as gen 4
I've done it on a 5.7L LS1, But got her rebalanced as I give it death every time I drive it.
She's hits 7500rpm all day every day for 4 yrs an still going strong NA of course & she's killed 3 4l60e trans so far.
4l80e going in her very soon just have another 2k to save up.
Sounds like a strong runner! Those 60e Transmission are such a pain! Thanks for the feedback! JD
I think much more important are weight difference between same con rods. Also some engine configurations do not need bob weight for crank balancing so conrod and piston weight are not very important if they are same weight to each other.
Edvinas J. Can you explain which rotating assemblies do not require balancing?
Balancing the rotating assembly is the process of "Counter Balancing" the counter weights of the crankshaft to account for the weight of the Piston/Pin, connecting Rod, and the Rings used in order to reduce Harmonics and Vibration.
Sorry for my bad English. Balancing are necessary for all engines but for example 4 cylinder inline engine crankshaft are balanced without using bob weighs. Pistons and rods still need to be same weight all 4 in maximum 5g difference between but it makes almost no difference for same crank if all 4 conrods and pistons will be used for example 400g or 600g because like I said crankshaft are balanced without bob weights.
Edvinas J. Interesting information, i wonder how or why the engineers would do this. Thanks for the feedback! JD
It is because 4 cylinder is 90degree apart and crank it self has opposite weights to counteract each other so if crank is balanced it self and if pistons and con rods weight the same to each other in less than 5g difference they also counter act it self so it makes no difference for crank balance if they more heavy or less.
Its because of the configuration of the cylinders, inline 6 is balanced perfectly in the first and second modes for both moment and shake. The engineers didnt do this, it is a by product of the configuration.
My question is this , if your swapping out rods and pistons and the weights are within spec across the 8 used in comparison to reciprocating balance then why not ? or are you saying that because the rod / piston combination of the stronger set up is that much heavier that you will some how damage the crank or the bearings designed for the stranger rod / piston combination am I missing something here ...
mike c What he is saying is that If you swap in the gen 4 stuff without getting it balanced you may run into issues of it being so out of balance that it may eventually wear out a bearing early or cause other issues.
Also, even if all the rods and pistons are within specs of each other you also have to include the counter weights on the crank.
The Lighter the rod without sacrificing strength, the better off the engine is at all speeds.
C&B Lay Lightest Piston/Rod combo helps reduce opposing forces at higher rpm.
The heavier your assembly bob-weight is when spin balancing an assembly ultimately limits strength.
Grams are multiplied exponentially when the assembly increases with RPM’s. Both inertial and kinetic energy increase. JD
Awesome video.
can you use a gen 4 crank., rods and pistons in a gen 3 engine ?
Doug Blocks are the same, you can mix n match Gen3 & Gen4 internals but remember there’s a difference in the reluctor wheels 24 tooth and 58 tooth on the crankshaft sensor.
Also many Gen4 move the cam sensor to the front cover.
Make sure the reluctor matched your setup ECU
Doug My Buddy Richard has a 24 tooth 5.3 crank/block with Gen4 pistons/rods. Some of the 2003-04 engines came from GM setup this way OEM.
@@HeadFlowInc everything from 05 and on had the newer rod design with floating pistons however gm did start using the floating pistons and thicker rods as early as 2004 maybe even earlier mid 2004 def had gen 4 rods and floating pistons
@@HeadFlowInc all lh6 like in the trailblazer is that way. Also an aluminum block
Great video
Ok I understand your point but did u weigh out every single rod and piston and calculate the difference across the board with a complete rotating assembly
Xavier Barksdale Yes we have, each assembly varied +- 8 grams, verifying 2 things: 1. Each assembly was heavy and 2. Factory rotating assemblies are not precision balanced.
GM uses a +- 4 gram tolerance based off a mean/median weight to match the piston and rod assemblies. Each assembly is not precision spin balanced like a race engine. I did see some reports the high end hand assembled Corvette engines may be precision balanced but I have not verified this information.
Xavier Barksdale Part of my yet unproven theory surrounding heavier Gen 4 vs Gen 3.
If you could find a 100% verified Gen 3 6.0 crankshaft, you could run Gen 4 5.3 pistons and rods on it and be balanced under 2grams per assembly building a 5.3. Problem is, nobody offers any reliable was to differentiate a 5.3 crank from a 6.0 🤷♂️. Even the 5.7 cranks share the same part number as the 5.3 & 6.0 but a true LS1 5.7 crank has gun drilled journals. (Remember the theory the Corvette engines may be precision balanced)... 🤔
And see I have 3 5.3 engines two are gen 3 and I have one gen 4. I was gonna use he rods and slugs from the gen 4 in my gen 3 because of the strength
Xavier Barksdale People do it all the time, it’s not correct but people definitely run it out of balance. 🤔
Ok I was just curious the effects can’t be to dire if they run them like that and like someone stated prior gen 1 sbc got it a lot
Matt from sloppy mechanics says he's swapped gen 4 rods and pistons into gen 3 blocks using gen 3 cranks without balancing the rotating assembly.
BolognaTheTiger Good for Matt, he’s also blown up more engines than most people have owned and doesn’t care. But, if you watch his current videos he prefers to use untouched high mileage factory engines now! 👍😉🤔
Yeah I've noticed. And the only reason i brought it up was because in his most recent Q&A he was asked by a viewer about running gen 4 pistons and rods in a gen 3 with the gen 3 crank without balancing, and just said it would be fine, he's done it quite a few times. Mainly I was wanting your take on it and got it. Thank you for replying. I like Q&A's as much as the next guy however it's always nice to get a reply. Love your channel btw!!!! Thanks again!!!
BolognaTheTiger It’s 100% proven you can run the Gen 4 piston/rods on a Gen 3 crankshaft, it’s been done a lot as you know. I even offer, if you can find a verified Gen 3 6.0 crankshaft the Gen 4 5.3 pistons/rods will work great, within 2grams of being balanced! 👍
I think my position on this topic is it’s fine to run what you like, it’s just not 100% correct and won’t run as good or as long as a properly balanced engine.
I had feedback showing old school SBC were run with the same or more out of balance issue for decades. 🤔. Thanks again for the feedback and for watching! 👍👍
@@HeadFlowInc Thank you for the awesome content and also for the replies!!!
@@HeadFlowInc I'm late but thanks for being honest you are rt
I have a question...could I put a gen lll 5.3l into my gen lv with a 5.3...and if so what would I have to do. I've heard change knock sensor location and reluctor wheel
Josh Cogswell Depends which version G4 you have early or later. Some of the early crossovers between G3 to G4 still had the Rear cam sensor and 24 tooth. They moved the cam sensor from the top/rear of the block to the timing cover/driver side, easy fix $20.00 harness extension.
Now, for the change from 58 tooth to 24 tooth, you’ll need to look into the boxes they sell to convert the signal.
@@HeadFlowInc ok thank you.
This is good stuff! Do you have a video of Pistons/Rings/Pin+++ ?
drewnashty I'll try to gather up the Pistons, pins, snap rings, and rings to do a weight comparison. The rings should be the same weight as long as the bore is the same.
Great info
I agree
Danny Rochester Thanks for talking with me, it’s good to share experience. Thanks again I appreciate it! 👍 JD
If I can get 4.8 pistons and rods can I just swap them in after switching the rings or do I need to do anything else
kenneth gonzalez 4.8 Rods can only be run with a 4.8 crankshaft!!!
You can mix & match 4.8/5.3 “pistons” with no issue.
The 4.8 has its own unique crankshaft stroke and connecting rod length. 3.27” stroke 6.275” rods.
The 5.3, 5.7 & 6.0 all use the same crankshaft stroke and rod length. 3.622” stroke 6.098” rods.
do you think aftermarket piston and rods have this same issue?
im trying to bore my 5.3(gen 3) to a 3.820 bore
im looking at gen 4 rods and aftermarket pistons on a gen 3 crank as a possibility
also looking at summit racing forged piston and rod set on a gen 3 crank
Most aftermarket pistons have a better drain back setup. Definitely check the design, specifically what it looks like with the support rails installed.
On the pistons, if the budget allows go with a forged piston. I like the Gen 4 rods but even they get scary above 800 wheel Hp, they can live or not depending on the tune and weight of the car etc.
I’m slowly building an “Iron” LS1 aka iron G3 5.3 bored to 3.900”+ with a 2005 6.0 crank and Rods. I’m undecided yet on either oem 2005 LS6 pistons or a forged piston like the Summit Racing. Budget budget 👍
I'm trying to find a way to make a 5.3 out of a 4.8. the internet only has testimonials.
Chad Jennings The 4.8/5.3 use the same block! You can use either the 4.8 or 5.3 pistons in either CID as long as the pins match the rods, Press-Pin vs Fliating-pins.
All you will need to build a 5.3 is to get a 5.3/5.7/6.0 crankshaft w/ 3.622” stroke and a set of 6.098” rods from any of the same. (I recommend using the stronger pistons/rods w/floating-pins)
The 4.8 has its own crankshaft and rods: 3.27” stroke and longer 6.275” rods, neither can be used in a 5.3.
1. Good 4.8/5.3 block
2. 3.622” stroke crankshaft
3. 6.098” rods
4. 4.8/5.3 pistons
@@HeadFlowInc could I use the 4.8 flat tops in a 5.3 if so it would up compression immediately. I've read it can and read it can't. I'd like to see a finished product and see if it's worth the extra money.
@@HeadFlowInc are the rods/pistons and crank matched? I am considering stroking a 4.8 to 5.3. My engine has gen 4 rods and is 24x engine. I have a line on a free cracked gen 3 5.3 short block. I don't know what rods it has. I was considering using that crank (could be gen 3) and sourcing gen 4 rods and transferring my original flat gen 4 pistons. Daily Driver. too risky?
@@chadjennings3907 piston only not rod
If all the pistons and rods are the same weight I don’t see a problem... so what happens when you put after market h beams and aftermarket pistons?
ULB SRY Engine balance is not the same thing. Equalizing the weight of all 8 piston and rod assemblies is only 1 part of balancing the “rotating” assembly. The crankshaft has “counter weights” to offset the force of the piston/rod assembly as it spins in the block. Balancing the counter weight to the bob-weight or piston/rod eliminates damaging vibration and harmonics.
People regularly don’t understand the difference.
You can run an out of balance engine it just won’t last as long and depending on power level could break the crankshaft.
The best factory combination to run that’s close to being properly balanced: Gen 4 5.3 piston/rods using a Gen 3 6.0 crankshaft. Theoretically is less than 2 grams a match.
The problem is, none of the machine shops have any data on whether GM actually balanced the 6.0’s to the heavier assembly. It’s an ongoing process to verify the balance for each CID.
ULB SRY There are some SCAT I-beams that are close to being useable out of the box, but it would still not be balanced. H-beams are pretty heavy and require balancing. I say this using factory piston weights, if you could somehow get a really light weight Forged piston to offset the weight increase of the H-beam to be less than +- 10 grams you could try it. I haven’t seen any combination of H-beams/pistons that equal the factory bob-weight/piston rod assemblies.
Keep in mind, we’re talking engine Math on how to build a high end assembly to make it live. A properly balanced engine will make more power and handle the power until you reach the mechanical limit of the components used. JD
HeadFlowInc it would be great if someone offered a forged piston and rod of the same weight as the stock setup
@@dangerousfreedom4965 Texas Speed has rod/piston combos balanced to factory cranks.
What if you use gen 4 pistons and rods with a gen 4 crank and a gen 3 block? Will there be a balancing issue?
Warship C6 All Gen 4 rotating assembly, as long as it was mated together at the factory it would for sure be fine. If we operate on the presumption the factory used a “Median” bob weight for the assemblies it should also be ok.
But all this is assuming a lot; it really would be better to have it checked.
Another issue to verify is the reluctor tooth count. The Gen 3 should have a 24 tooth and the Gen 4 05-Up should have a 58 tooth. The 03-04’s could be either must verify.
HeadFlowInc thanks a lot man. I’m building a ls for my f body and I’m doing some weird things with it. I just want to make sure everything I have is going to work.
No issue
HeadFlowInc some ls2 /Gen4’s have 24x reluctors all the way up to 2006.
I.E. GTO’s & TBSS
Could you consider the weight gained in rods and piston. With a reduction in a flywheel weight?
I think the LS uses neutral balanced flexplate/flywheels and dampeners so it’s not affected.
Sorry for the delay, I wasn’t notified of your post and just found it! JD
Are 4.8 rods where the Piston connect the same size as the 6.0 rod what I really want to know is can I attach a 6.0 piston to a 4.8 rod
SHOE GOD 23 Yes as long as both the Piston and the Rod attach the same way. Press-fit and Floating can Not be mixed! Both parts have to be either Press or Floating. JD
awesome thanks for the fast reply I will recommend others to watch you videos
4.8 rods are longer than 6.0 rods
@@dangerousfreedom4965 They are longer rods but the crank is different too. The pistons have the same Compression height. Keep the rods with the crank and you can change the pistons. People are using 5.7 pistons in an 4.8 block bored to accept, crank and rods.
keith taube or you could use 4.8 rods and crank in a 6.0 block with the larger pistons.
Did you think to take in the bushing in the gen four rods? Take them out then weigh it
No I did not remove any bushings during the weight testing. You can see the Gen 4 rods are substantially thicker castings compared to the Gen 3. If you have a spare Gen 4 rod I’d like to see the weight difference w/w/o the small end bushing. 🤔🤔🤔
Which way do the dimples face in the engines??
Bonafied-pro Mtz Factory has them Forward, because the LS rods don’t have a “chamfer” like older engines they could be run either way. I generally just point the dimples forward 👍
The dimples on the rods face the rear. The dimples on the pistons face the front.
407ForRent I may have been confused, yes normally you want the dots/arrows on the pistons to go forward. 👍
I’m considering checking the ring gap on the stock lm7. I hope I don’t ruin things by attempting this and not just leaving it in. I have the block opened up to heads and oil pan off on stand. Idk man 😐
How much boost? If your not going to exceed 10-12# it might be fine, it may live on 20# it’s hard to say without checking. You really only need to gap the top ring, it’s made of steel factory so it’s safe to r&r for gapping. Some people like to lightly hone or bust the glaze on the cylinders while it’s apart but not 100% necessary.
@@HeadFlowInc was considering 14-20lbs tops. That’s full go, not summer street driven where I’d like to see 12-15 max. Hard if not impossible to see 600 wheel on pump 93 through turbo 400, would like to see max effort 700 wheel if I went to strip. I’m just trying not to make mistakes sir and not have the regrets of ruining my stuff due to chancing my ability at the ring gap on 160k engine. Thank you
@@timweb1510 I understand completely! I’d probably look at gapping the rings or at least checking them. Some people find the rings are already wide just from miles. At 20# I guess you’d be looking at +- .030” top and .028” second ring.
TH400 factor 23% driveline loss, so 779hp crank is 600 whp or 909hp crankshaft is 700 whp. JD
@@HeadFlowInc will write that info down. Thank you very much
On installing the gen 4 rods which way do the dots go. I'm rebuilding my LQ9 6.0. Vin N. I need to make sure I installed my rods correctly. As of now they're installed but not torqued and I have the dimples facing opposite one another. So one side like bores 1 and two the dimples on the rods, one faces the front of the engine the other faces the rear. Please correct me if I'm wrong so I can fix this before I start torquing everything down. Thanks.
loveto livetruely The rebuilder book I have shows the Gen 4 rods “All” Dimples on the rods face rearward. The “dots” on the pistons naturally all go forward.
Good luck on your build, it looks like your going to have fun! JD
@@HeadFlowInc Thank you. I have 4 pistons I need to correct.
@@HeadFlowInc just to be sure because I've asked this question on several forums and I think I'm confusing people. I'm inquiring about the direction of the dots on the side of the rod shaft. Someone made a reply on one of the forums about dimples on the bottom of the rod/ rod cap where the bearings are. There are no dimples at the bottom of my rods only the dot or whatever it's called on the sides. Again gen 4 rods
Yes Gen 4 rods have a large raised dot on one side, those go to the rear of the engine.
Don't listen to this video he has no clue of what he is talking about. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but unfortunately he does not understand the concept and also does not do math very well and if you do the math he is talking about and trying to do in his head you will find he is not even doing that correctly I'm not trying to insult I'm just stating facts.
Normally I ignore trolls but your post made me laugh! Before you challenge anyone with experience you might want to do some research. Also punctuation is needed to avoid run on sentences. Dang 0-2 better luck next time enjoy! JD
Any guesses as to how much material you could safely remove from the small end of the gen 4 rod?
Chupa Cabra I’d say not very much, the profile of the small end is small same as an aftermarket rod. The LS rods don’t have a balance pad on the small end like older rods.
Interesting question though, are you finding weight distribution issues while trying to balance and weight match? JD
@@HeadFlowInc Just thinking ahead. I couldn't visualize what 40 grams of material removal would look like but assumed it was too tall an order on these rods.
what if it's just a stock engine? will it matter?
People run them all the time without balancing. I wanted to point out its not the right way to build an engine but seems to hold up ok.
The Gen 4 rods are far superior; add in the fact the Gen 4 pistons are lighter and have full floating piston pins is a bonus. JD
4.8 stroke is smaller/rod longer...had to help a bit.....o.35 inch different...ha
steven mcclelland Yep, the 4.8 has its own crankshaft/Rods stroke 3.2662”? Rod length 6.2750”
What’s cool is you can interchange 4.8 and 5.3 pistons! Pretty handy 👍👍👍
I ran Gen 4 rods in hopped up 5.3 bored .123
To a 5.7 using Wiseco Pro tru pistons. One rod sheered both bolts, came apart and destroyed my motor. Everything was balanced correctly.
Peter Fraumeni Iron block 5.7! I’m tempted to Have one of my blocks bored out To a standard LS one size.
Dang that totally sucks at yours came apart I wonder if that was an RPM issue or a piston broke first?
That was an 07 Gen4 aluminum 5.3 (LH6) IWas able to salvage heads, cam, lifters, timing set and oil pump, not much else. Even destroyed a C6 low profile oil pan, damn that hurt, new motor too. Went 7100 and broke
Pistons must be swapped at same time ?
Gen 3 are press-fit piston pin and Gen 4 are full-floating piston pin. You can’t mix & match Gen 3 & 4 pistons/rods.
Yes the pistons will need to match the rods you want to use. Thanks for watching and the feedback I appreciate it! JD
My gen 3 came with gen 4 rods 😎
Yes, some of the 2003-2004 came with the better G4 rods, some of the 2003’s have the G4 rods with a pressed pin piston. JD
Yes, some of the 2003-2004 came with the better G4 rods, some of the 2003’s have the G4 rods with a pressed pin piston. JD
So try to find pins that are 40 grams lighter than stock. Lol. Plus you have the weight of the keepers for the floaters which is probably 4-5 grams for 2.
Don Rutter iirc the piston pin snap rings weigh +- 1gram each ring or 2g per piston. I have a video showing the weights.
A 6.0 Richard is building now has a Gen 3 crankshaft with Gen 4 pistons/rods, they had the assembly balanced at Mann’s Speed in KC; it needed Mallory metal to balance. Also, the pistons must have been way off, they had to remove a lot of material to balance the pistons.
Don Rutter th-cam.com/video/NztGn2eOMd0/w-d-xo.html
............or just run a gen 4 crank that’s already drilled for the heavier gen 4 rods and call it a day.....................
Bradley Hayes And what if your ECU is all setup for 24 tooth? I guess if you could afford it you could switch to the 58 tooth signal or buy the Lingenfelter crankshaft signal converter $$$.
There’s also some early crossover crankshafts Late 2003~2005ish made for the Gen 4 pistons/rods on a 24 tooth crankshaft. Probably hard to find and even harder to verify authenticity.
Or just spend the $150.00-200.00 and have the assembly balanced. OEM assemblies are not precision race balanced, So having a Real balance job is far superior! 👍
HeadFlowInc or you can just do a reluctor ring swap
Weigh the ends
I'd say no.
People do it all the time, but you’re right it’s not the best idea. 👍
Depends on how accurate your scale is 😂 and that scale is not
lol 11.2 ounces for 8 of them this guy acts like they are pounds heavier lmao. 3/4 of a pound across all 8 rods LMAO.
MidwestCatz Feel Free to contact your machine shop and get clarification on the limits for a balanced assembly.
Your statement tells everyone you have no idea what your talking about. But everyone has to start somewhere good luck! 👍🍀
MidwestCatz Lesson #1 any weight change +- 10 grams per assembly should be re-balanced. This would include both balancing all assemblies to a median weight and spin balancing the assembly. 👍
How do people run gen 4 Rods in a motor on 21psi and have no issues ?
Do you have any data to back up all this damage or mirrors shaken off trucks at idle. LoL
MidwestCatz Show me the no issues! Nobody can say they threw Gen 4 pistons/rods in a Gen 3 and it’s lasting very long especially at 21# Boost.
I never said it won’t run, only clarifying it’s not going to last as long as a properly balanced assembly.
Most of the people including Sloppy Mechanics end up breaking, bending rods and rebuilding before the engine runs long enough to matter. In the video I say, If you don’t mind pulling engines and rebuilding/replacing them then “Send It”! Nothing in life is free, don’t get fooled! 😉
Too much blah blah blah, and get a different scale if you’re gonna try and prove weight.