Square work pieces will lift less due to surface engagement. Out of square stock lifts more but the real drama starts when you grip round stock horizontally. Thanks for the video.
Hi Lyle, So you asked for likes at the end. Well, I don't like your videos.... I Bloody Love Them!!! You explain things really well. I ALWAYS learn something from you and you go into details that mot people do not even know that they should be covering. So, Many Thanks to you the "forger of all instruments and the instructor of every artificer of bronze and iron" - Tubalcain.
I enjoy all of your videos, but find the recent ones concerning accurately spaced holes, accuracy on the Bridgeport, indicator accuracy etc., particularly interesting and enlightening. I can taking something away from videos such as these and use it later. When you boil it all down, I suppose that is the purest idea behind effective education. Thanks and keep up the good work.
No vise has zero jaw lift. It doesn’t matter what they say. These vises have a lot LESS lift. But as the vise wears, the amount of lift increases. Newer Kurt designs have small rubber pieces under the front end of the movable jaw that holds it up just a very small amount. When you tighten the vise, the front of the jaw moves down, compressing the rubber, and straightening the jaw. But they wear, and after a while, they don’t work, so they have to be replaced. Most people aren’t aware they’re even there, and so don’t. Older designs don’t have this feature.
My compliments Sir > for knowing what the hell ur talking about. Ive used a Kurt vise most of my machining life > two mos ago, I didnt know about the O-rings under the front of the movable jaw on the Kurts. Bought a D675 recently off eBay for my personal shop, was very stiff moving back / forth . Pulled it apart (after watching couple YT vids) was packed w alum chips > and missing the O-rings
i learned this the hard way. kept getting things slightly wrong with a normal vise. i bought a shars, kurt clone, and the problem cleared up right away.
Great video. The important item pointed out is.... Vise can lift the work piece. So machining a work piece top and bottom on a vise is no guarantee that it will result in two parallel plane.
Thanks for this, especially for mentioning the different names used like 'anti lift', and for mentioning these are used in CNC. That helped me really expand my list of search terms, so I'm finding several more names and makers for this type of vise. Really looking forward to the one on HOW they work. Thanks!
Good morning Mr Pete good morning John. While I haven't watched the video yet I know as always it will be a good one. Great subject, I liked the last one.
Put a big small on my face mrpete and made me laugh when you said " If you like my videos tell everybody if you don't then don't tell anyone"! lol reminded me of when I played music I would say "If you like us clap your hands and if you don't clap even louder" Thanks for the laugh this morning I needed that-Two Thumbs Up Sir!
Rosario W: I used to tell all my old girlfriends on our first date, “If you had a good time, call me.” They never called me, so I guess they all had a good time.
Most interesting, and a little surprising. At least the parts whacking is vindicated, it can't hurt and helps at the very least somewhat. Very good video.
I think the most important point is to know what your work holding is doing so that when it matters you can take corrective action if needed. You also need to know what happens when you clamp down on any of the machine tool's motions. E.g. does the knee on a milling machine move when you lock it? Probably, and knowing how much will allow you to take that into account the 1% of the time that it really matters.
Very interesting video! Very few people would be able to compare , or even afford multiple types of milling vises. I would guess to get better results, one should get to know their individual equipment and setup! Thank you again .
When I had my smaller mill, I purchased a knock off, that one didn’t work as well as a Kurt. The one I have I purchased it new, but I believe it was Shars was actually selling them then and was running a sale. Now maybe the better import ones may be ok, but IHMO the Kurt is worth every penny of the cost.
There are some other types of anti-lift mechanisms. I think the most significant are the surface grinder type vise and the gerardi type milling vises. The latter type have an angled floating jaw on both the free and fixed side which is pulled down when the vise is tightened.
Great quick lesson the screw location tells what your getting when looking at a vise online or at an auction so thank you teacher mr.pete. WORD OF THE DAY "Parallax" (in this case the indicator hand appears to be in one position within the dial when in fact it is in an other caused by the camera angles view) We have these but we use tool maker vises. In my aerospace job shop past we used only Kurt vises 6 inch and 10 inch (10 inch big money then as it is now). Lance and Patrick. We think you are just showing off that Last Word Starrett and well worth it we might share. Another great lesson and for others a reminder that you need to know the tools in hand limits before beginning use.
Interesting. Seeing the Kurt vise lift a little, makes me feel better about my cheap knock-off. I 've noticed that your Last Word indicator has an all white face. The one I have, bought back in the 80's, has one half of the dial, 0 to 15 with a yellow background. I have found this very helpful when sweeping a hole to know which side of zero I'm on when the indicator is facing the back and I'm using a mirror to see the dial.
Try putting an indicator on the back of the fixed jaw. When you reef down on Kurt vices the bolt on fixed jaw can flex a few thou letting the work piece lift and twist.
Knowing you vise so to work around it... A better quality vise is a great asset in a machine shop, this is an item where the price should be a second consideration... ;) Well done, don't forget to mention that after the hammer tap, there is no more thightening or it defeats the purpose of the Tap...
Watching this video reminds me of when dale deary from build something cool took a vise from over the pond ( pacific pond) and scraped and did what he could to dial it in to match his DOMESTICALLY made vise...not even close when he was done...
I would opt for the hammer method, myself...and if I want no lift I'll clamp directly to the table..and if I can't do that I'll make something else.. :-) I own a Shars "knock off" vise and an interesting test would be to put two matching parallels, one on top of the other and clamp on them both..on my knock off vice I can always lift the top one out, meaning you get what you pay for. Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
If the jaw raises up, check to see if the half steel ball is at the end of the screw. Mine raised up and ruined my first project. Bought a half ball from Kurt for appx. $5.00.
I bought a new DX6 Kurt vise recently from the states. The distributor here in Australia wanted to charge me double the price ($1850 AU) and there was a 2 month wait as they don’t keep any stock. It only took 2 weeks to have it shipped from west coast USA to Sydney.
Am I reading correctly? The 6" vice delivered to Sydney for somewhere under $1000. Glad Kurt didn't stiff you. I have found some US suppliers protect their Aus distributors pretty much Geolocking the price. They do it with packaging and freight.
I payed $788.32 AU delivered, this was in July 2018 The exchange rate is much worse now. I’m glad I got it, so much better than the Bridgeport vise that I have.
Kurt is not the only good name in vises. If Kurt does not have local distribution go look for other quality brands like Gerardi, Rohm, Orange or possibly Bison.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 Ah hah. That might explain it. I have had a few experiences where the "Australia Tax" applied. Once Carbatec became Rockler agents, direct importing became non viable as did using Rockler products full stop. I enquired direct to Tormach, was referred to Aus agent. 10k became 30k, when our dollar was doing well. Software costs twice as much etc etc. Freight from U S is really strange Coles and Woolworths can put Californian grapes or oranges on the shelf in FNQ cheaper and fresher than they are in Peoria Illinois on the same day. Yet try and buy something like tools from US yourself and bingo minimum $60US freight. Similar item out of China, free freight. Certainly helps Chinese exporters.
In my experience, there are some functional differences between the Kurt vises and the better imports. Jingoistic claims aside the much more expensive Kurt vises employ harder more wear resistant castings than the imports. Also the Kurt vises are a bit more accurately made. Long illustrative nattative warning: I was tasked to match a dozen import lock-down vises for a largish machine shop so they could simply grab any vise and mount it on their pallet or tombstone without the need to re-establish references. The Kurt design was intended for re-grinding. It disassembled to parts that could be refinished in a surface grinder. A dozen 6" import lockdown vises were shipped to my shop. The deal was to match three and try them in production. I noted on my dissemble of the first few import vises the bottoms of the base castings were not flat by a thousandth or two. I gave them a lick and a promise scrape and rented time on my employer's surface grinder taking the parts to some nominal undersize. Same deal with the movable and fixed jaws. Everything is made of rubber meaning the fixed jaw face had to be ground with a slight "lean-in" angle to compensate for clamping load. I forget the exact figure but it was around a thousandth in the height of the jaw for X ft lb handle torque. I made new hard keys and their seats were established to a half thousandth from the first jaw plane. I shipped the first three and matched three more. As it turned out the vises failed in service. The castings were soft. One of the customer's repeat jobs was making valve bodies from scaley iron continuous cast stock. The abrasive scale wore the base reference an unacceptable amount in a short time. The decision was to abort and return the unmodified vises for refund. I was stuck with the three I'd jumped the gun on but the customer told me to return the six and keep the three for my trouble. Meaning no pay for my work. Value for value, it was about a wash but I'd father have the money. I sold two and kept one. It's a dandy vise for a low volume shop. I figure I lost about $160 in 1996 money. I'm living proof good machinists don't always make good businessmen. Story of my life. The end of the story was the customer bought a dozen Kurt vises which they matched at manufacture for less that you'd think. The harder castings resulted in about four times the wear life. Periodically they'd round up all the vises, sendthe bases out for grinding and Bob's their uncle. OK. That's the soft casting typical of non-Kurt lock down vises. Dimensional and geometrical accuracy are the other issues. Most of us have no need for super-accurate clamping and most any better import lock-down vise will be acceptable right out of the box. But if your work is fussy, it would pay to go over the new vise to check base flatness, parallelism, key alignment, fixed jaw alignment and perpendicularity under load.
Makes me wonder if upgrading is really worth it. I think I'll keep my bridgeport vise. BTW I wasn't planning on upgrading. The vise has worked, machinists used it for years and it's good enough for me. Thanks for showing this as always a good video.
@@mrpete222 Yes, as in you think upgrading is worth the cost? Seems a steep price to pay for something that can be overcome by paying attention to details.
Great edutainment demonstration video. The advantages are clear, but when a cheap lead hammer can put the work back to zero, is a NEW vice really worth the cost?
Thanks Lyle, When I saw the fixed jaw lift a little, I wondered if the Allen bolts might be a problem. Being quite old somebody may have stretched them. Another consideration is that the jaw may deliberately lean in so it squares under normal tightening pressure. This Old Tony measured a brand new Vertex copy out of the box. Without new jaws I doubt meaningful measurements could be taken though. Just goes to show why even with a good vice why the tap down is so important. One question, are the Orange vices we see these days also Kurt design?
Good morning Mr Pete. What a very talented man. I got the winning bid on your green mini steam wobbler engine on e bay. Will you please autograph and date it . Love all your great videos.Thanks Gary
Thank you for watching and bidding. Sorry it's already boxed up and too late for signing. I'll send you an autographed picture. , LOL. Wish I would've read this six hours ago
@@mrpete222 Hi again Mr Pete. I am Gary Nelson the buyer of the green mini steam engine but i use Jodi Davis s ebay account as i do not have my own.But i do have my own You tube account that i entered your contest in. A couple yrs ago Jodi and i drove to Streator Illinois and looked at a 1969 camaro that a guy had in Streator for sale. As i recall his name was Ralph, in the digging business. Nice town you live in. We are farmers in iowa and love watching all your videos while learning and buying metal working tools as a newbie. Keep up the great work. If i send the mini back and pay freight both ways will you sign and date it ? My plans are to build a couple in the future just like the ones you build. I grew up on a JD 70 and learned to plant corn when i was 12 in 1969. We ended up buying another 69 camaro and old tractors along with metal lathe and milling will be my retirement hobbies. Thanks Gary Nelson Thor, Iowa
Most embarrassing to admit to say, a vise is a vise. At a few months younger than you I just learned something, that my vise, a 8 inch Yuasa is a angle lock. I have to have my son remove it , I can't strange If I spelled Yuasa correct but it says made in NY USA? thanks sam
I think for almost 35 years I put the jaws on upside down caught lots of grief explaining why. But I could wipe the bottom and never have chips under my parallels.
I was wondering if you could do a video on getting a better finish on steel in the lathe I 'm retired hobby machinist and don't know what I'm doing wrong I've picked up better tooling went to carbied changed work speeds still not happy .you have great videos would like to meet you someday. Thank you very much. I work with craftsman 12-36 with quick change and bridgeport.
But I noticed something else. On the Kurt, when you took your hand off the handle, the lift receded almost completely. What this means is that the lift will be there iff you machine the part leaning on the vice handle. This could be due to 'play' in the mill's table ways, not in the vice at all. There goes my beautiful self-centering vice (it has two moving Jaws, no stationary jaws. How sad, how expensive 😢
That was interesting. A small difference, but it still exists. And so you know, I did supply a rimshot for you at the appropriate moment. "Ba-dum chi." Thanks.
It would seem that the best practice is to clamp work directly to the milling table when accuracy is important. I was disappointed to see ANY lift in the Anglock vise.
So does that mean that they don’t work and they still lift so don’t worry about paying all of that extra money to buy one when you need to hit down the work anyway and end up with the same result
prentice emler wrong I have 2 Kurt vises you still have to hit the work with a lead Hammer don't trust that's why I still have Bridgeport vices I still have to Tamp down with the lead Hammer but you know what I didn't pay that much
@@plymouth-hl20ton37 ok thanks for letting me know ,I been using some old vices for a long time , and it got to where I the work quality was not in tolerance, so I bought a kurt , and my work was in tolerance , I am new to that vice , thanks again for letting me know that it may require tapping with .lead hammer , take care
Good Day Mate, Coffee Brewing, first video to start before watching the snow, Saw you complete the eBay "Reduce the Duplicates in the Hoard". Maybe 100 for Round 2? I am anxiously waiting Mr Pete222 aka Tubalcain's T-Shirt store. I need some new ones for spring thaw. How about sme stickers too? IDEA, Like Keith Fenner has, the magnetic signs for the side of your Auction / Garage Sale CAR. Announce INTERNATIONAL INTERNET SHOP TEACHER ON BOARD TTFN
Is that a pointer you've got in your hand or a cane? Best to check when dealing with an old-school teacher :-). Or is it what my former Masters used to call "constructive ambiguity"? lol
Watching the MIT mill tutorial I remember a section where he addresses the Kurt vise lifting issue. It's at the 15 minute mark th-cam.com/video/mn-I6TlY5mU/w-d-xo.html
Great demo. You can adjust the kurt, to minimize the lift.
I don’t have any machine tools, but I sure do enjoy the processes and your videos. Getting from the beginning to the end and how it’s done, and why.
Thanks
Square work pieces will lift less due to surface engagement. Out of square stock lifts more but the real drama starts when you grip round stock horizontally. Thanks for the video.
Hi Lyle, So you asked for likes at the end. Well, I don't like your videos.... I Bloody Love Them!!! You explain things really well. I ALWAYS learn something from you and you go into details that mot people do not even know that they should be covering. So, Many Thanks to you the "forger of all instruments and the instructor of every artificer of bronze and iron" - Tubalcain.
Surprising on the Kurt.. I would have thought the Kurt would raise zero! Great vid.. Thanks!
I enjoy all of your videos, but find the recent ones concerning accurately spaced holes, accuracy on the Bridgeport, indicator accuracy etc., particularly interesting and enlightening. I can taking something away from videos such as these and use it later. When you boil it all down, I suppose that is the purest idea behind effective education. Thanks and keep up the good work.
Thanks
‘If ya don’t like em, don’t tell anybody’ made me chuckle 😂. Keep em coming 👍🏼
You’re a good man Mr. Pete. Love your videos - this one was very interesting. You have the heart of a true teacher. Thank you sir.
Thanks
No vise has zero jaw lift. It doesn’t matter what they say. These vises have a lot LESS lift. But as the vise wears, the amount of lift increases. Newer Kurt designs have small rubber pieces under the front end of the movable jaw that holds it up just a very small amount. When you tighten the vise, the front of the jaw moves down, compressing the rubber, and straightening the jaw. But they wear, and after a while, they don’t work, so they have to be replaced. Most people aren’t aware they’re even there, and so don’t. Older designs don’t have this feature.
My compliments Sir > for knowing what the hell ur talking about. Ive used a Kurt vise most of my machining life > two mos ago, I didnt know about the O-rings under the front of the movable jaw on the Kurts. Bought a D675 recently off eBay for my personal shop, was very stiff moving back / forth . Pulled it apart (after watching couple YT vids) was packed w alum chips > and missing the O-rings
Thank you Mr. Pete. You seem to have an uncanny knack for answering questions that I have always wondered about.
lol
i learned this the hard way. kept getting things slightly wrong with a normal vise. i bought a shars, kurt clone, and the problem cleared up right away.
👍
Great video. The important item pointed out is.... Vise can lift the work piece. So machining a work piece top and bottom on a vise is no guarantee that it will result in two parallel plane.
True
Thanks for this, especially for mentioning the different names used like 'anti lift', and for mentioning these are used in CNC. That helped me really expand my list of search terms, so I'm finding several more names and makers for this type of vise. Really looking forward to the one on HOW they work. Thanks!
Good morning Mr Pete good morning John. While I haven't watched the video yet I know as always it will be a good one. Great subject, I liked the last one.
Thanks
Put a big small on my face mrpete and made me laugh when you said " If you like my videos tell everybody if you don't then don't tell anyone"! lol reminded me of when I played music I would say "If you like us clap your hands and if you don't clap even louder" Thanks for the laugh this morning I needed that-Two Thumbs Up Sir!
Rosario W: I used to tell all my old girlfriends on our first date, “If you had a good time, call me.”
They never called me, so I guess they all had a good time.
lol
Thanks, now I have some thing to do in the shop.
Most interesting, and a little surprising. At least the parts whacking is vindicated, it can't hurt and helps at the very least somewhat. Very good video.
I think the most important point is to know what your work holding is doing so that when it matters you can take corrective action if needed.
You also need to know what happens when you clamp down on any of the machine tool's motions. E.g. does the knee on a milling machine move when you lock it? Probably, and knowing how much will allow you to take that into account the 1% of the time that it really matters.
Good Morning. Well played working from basement today brrrr here in Michigan.
Thanks so much for the clear valuable education.
_Dan_
Good Show dear brother! Love 'em! A value of info that can not be measured!
Thanks
Very interesting video! Very few people would be able to compare , or even afford multiple types of milling vises. I would guess to get better results, one should get to know their individual equipment and setup! Thank you again .
Yes
My teacher taught us to use paper feelers between the part and the parallel on the solid jaw side to correct the problem of movable jaw lifting.
Yes, that is a good system
There's no cringing here, Tubalcain. Well done!
When I had my smaller mill, I purchased a knock off, that one didn’t work as well as a Kurt. The one I have I purchased it new, but I believe it was Shars was actually selling them then and was running a sale. Now maybe the better import ones may be ok, but IHMO the Kurt is worth every penny of the cost.
There are some other types of anti-lift mechanisms. I think the most significant are the surface grinder type vise and the gerardi type milling vises. The latter type have an angled floating jaw on both the free and fixed side which is pulled down when the vise is tightened.
Great quick lesson the screw location tells what your getting when looking at a vise online or at an auction so thank you teacher mr.pete. WORD OF THE DAY "Parallax" (in this case the indicator hand appears to be in one position within the dial when in fact it is in an other caused by the camera angles view) We have these but we use tool maker vises. In my aerospace job shop past we used only Kurt vises 6 inch and 10 inch (10 inch big money then as it is now). Lance and Patrick. We think you are just showing off that Last Word Starrett and well worth it we might share. Another great lesson and for others a reminder that you need to know the tools in hand limits before beginning use.
Yes thanks
Aren't there some adjustment screws on the Kurt to reduce the lift to a minimum amount?
Interesting. Seeing the Kurt vise lift a little, makes me feel better about my cheap knock-off. I 've noticed that your Last Word indicator has an all white face. The one I have, bought back in the 80's, has one half of the dial, 0 to 15 with a yellow background. I have found this very helpful when sweeping a hole to know which side of zero I'm on when the indicator is facing the back and I'm using a mirror to see the dial.
With starrett a yellow dial usually means the indicator have a metric scale.
Those indicators were available with a variety of different faces
It's amazing how much pressure can move metal. Precision, precision, precision is too me very important, especially surgeons.
Try putting an indicator on the back of the fixed jaw. When you reef down on Kurt vices the bolt on fixed jaw can flex a few thou letting the work piece lift and twist.
That would be interesting
Knowing you vise so to work around it...
A better quality vise is a great asset in a machine shop, this is an item where the price should be a second consideration... ;)
Well done, don't forget to mention that after the hammer tap, there is no more thightening or it defeats the purpose of the Tap...
👍
I cant wait to see the cut away of the kurt vise.
Watching this video reminds me of when dale deary from build something cool took a vise from over the pond ( pacific pond) and scraped and did what he could to dial it in to match his DOMESTICALLY made vise...not even close when he was done...
lol
Thanks Mr. Pete for showing this goes to show you nothing is prefect.
Given a choice I would use the Bridgeport vise.
I would opt for the hammer method, myself...and if I want no lift I'll clamp directly to the table..and if I can't do that I'll make something else.. :-) I own a Shars "knock off" vise and an interesting test would be to put two matching parallels, one on top of the other and clamp on them both..on my knock off vice I can always lift the top one out, meaning you get what you pay for. Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
👍
If the jaw raises up, check to see if the half steel ball is at the end of the screw. Mine raised up and ruined my first project. Bought a half ball from Kurt for appx. $5.00.
nice practical demo. Looks like you need to knock down any thin workpiece held in any typre of machine vice. (maybe not so if brand new vices)
I bought a new DX6 Kurt vise recently from the states.
The distributor here in Australia wanted to charge me double the price ($1850 AU) and there was a 2 month wait as they don’t keep any stock.
It only took 2 weeks to have it shipped from west coast USA to Sydney.
Am I reading correctly? The 6" vice delivered to Sydney for somewhere under $1000.
Glad Kurt didn't stiff you. I have found some US suppliers protect their Aus distributors pretty much Geolocking the price. They do it with packaging and freight.
I payed $788.32 AU delivered, this was in July 2018
The exchange rate is much worse now.
I’m glad I got it, so much better than the Bridgeport vise that I have.
Oh and I might add that I emailed Kurt headquarters and they said they don’t have a distributor here in Australia.
Kurt is not the only good name in vises. If Kurt does not have local distribution go look for other quality brands like Gerardi, Rohm, Orange or possibly Bison.
@@theworkshopmechanicchannel3296 Ah hah. That might explain it. I have had a few experiences where the "Australia Tax" applied. Once Carbatec became Rockler agents, direct importing became non viable as did using Rockler products full stop. I enquired direct to Tormach, was referred to Aus agent. 10k became 30k, when our dollar was doing well. Software costs twice as much etc etc.
Freight from U S is really strange Coles and Woolworths can put Californian grapes or oranges on the shelf in FNQ cheaper and fresher than they are in Peoria Illinois on the same day. Yet try and buy something like tools from US yourself and bingo minimum $60US freight. Similar item out of China, free freight. Certainly helps Chinese exporters.
Interesting. I learned. I wonder every time if my hammer tap is really doing anything. I will run a test. Thanks.
I have all three of those vices here. I'm going to try the same experiment and see what if any the results differ. Interesting
Julian P. I’d be interested in the results, if you don’t mind sharing. Thanks.
Great comparisons. Thanks.
In my experience, there are some functional differences between the Kurt vises and the better imports. Jingoistic claims aside the much more expensive Kurt vises employ harder more wear resistant castings than the imports. Also the Kurt vises are a bit more accurately made.
Long illustrative nattative warning:
I was tasked to match a dozen import lock-down vises for a largish machine shop so they could simply grab any vise and mount it on their pallet or tombstone without the need to re-establish references. The Kurt design was intended for re-grinding. It disassembled to parts that could be refinished in a surface grinder. A dozen 6" import lockdown vises were shipped to my shop. The deal was to match three and try them in production.
I noted on my dissemble of the first few import vises the bottoms of the base castings were not flat by a thousandth or two. I gave them a lick and a promise scrape and rented time on my employer's surface grinder taking the parts to some nominal undersize. Same deal with the movable and fixed jaws.
Everything is made of rubber meaning the fixed jaw face had to be ground with a slight "lean-in" angle to compensate for clamping load. I forget the exact figure but it was around a thousandth in the height of the jaw for X ft lb handle torque. I made new hard keys and their seats were established to a half thousandth from the first jaw plane. I shipped the first three and matched three more.
As it turned out the vises failed in service. The castings were soft. One of the customer's repeat jobs was making valve bodies from scaley iron continuous cast stock. The abrasive scale wore the base reference an unacceptable amount in a short time. The decision was to abort and return the unmodified vises for refund. I was stuck with the three I'd jumped the gun on but the customer told me to return the six and keep the three for my trouble. Meaning no pay for my work. Value for value, it was about a wash but I'd father have the money. I sold two and kept one. It's a dandy vise for a low volume shop. I figure I lost about $160 in 1996 money. I'm living proof good machinists don't always make good businessmen. Story of my life.
The end of the story was the customer bought a dozen Kurt vises which they matched at manufacture for less that you'd think. The harder castings resulted in about four times the wear life. Periodically they'd round up all the vises, sendthe bases out for grinding and Bob's their uncle. OK. That's the soft casting typical of non-Kurt lock down vises.
Dimensional and geometrical accuracy are the other issues. Most of us have no need for super-accurate clamping and most any better import lock-down vise will be acceptable right out of the box. But if your work is fussy, it would pay to go over the new vise to check base flatness, parallelism, key alignment, fixed jaw alignment and perpendicularity under load.
Very interesting story thank you very much. I always had my doubts about the imports
Makes me wonder if upgrading is really worth it. I think I'll keep my bridgeport vise. BTW I wasn't planning on upgrading. The vise has worked, machinists used it for years and it's good enough for me.
Thanks for showing this as always a good video.
Yes
@@mrpete222 Yes, as in you think upgrading is worth the cost? Seems a steep price to pay for something that can be overcome by paying attention to details.
Great edutainment demonstration video. The advantages are clear, but when a cheap lead hammer can put the work back to zero, is a NEW vice really worth the cost?
Thanks Lyle,
When I saw the fixed jaw lift a little, I wondered if the Allen bolts might be a problem. Being quite old somebody may have stretched them. Another consideration is that the jaw may deliberately lean in so it squares under normal tightening pressure. This Old Tony measured a brand new Vertex copy out of the box. Without new jaws I doubt meaningful measurements could be taken though.
Just goes to show why even with a good vice why the tap down is so important.
One question, are the Orange vices we see these days also Kurt design?
The fixed jaw lift can be caused by the cramped sides being not square with the bottom. Ex: less than 90 degrees.
Good morning Mr Pete. What a very talented man. I got the winning bid on your green mini steam wobbler engine on e bay. Will you please autograph and date it . Love all your great videos.Thanks Gary
Thank you for watching and bidding. Sorry it's already boxed up and too late for signing. I'll send you an autographed picture. , LOL. Wish I would've read this six hours ago
I don't get it. Your name is Gary Nelson. But the engine was bought by Jody Davis?
@@mrpete222 Hi again Mr Pete. I am Gary Nelson the buyer of the green mini steam engine but i use Jodi Davis s ebay account as i do not have my own.But i do have my own You tube account that i entered your contest in. A couple yrs ago Jodi and i drove to Streator Illinois and looked at a 1969 camaro that a guy had in Streator for sale. As i recall his name was Ralph, in the digging business. Nice town you live in. We are farmers in iowa and love watching all your videos while learning and buying metal working tools as a newbie. Keep up the great work. If i send the mini back and pay freight both ways will you sign and date it ? My plans are to build a couple in the future just like the ones you build. I grew up on a JD 70 and learned to plant corn when i was 12 in 1969. We ended up buying another 69 camaro and old tractors along with metal lathe and milling will be my retirement hobbies. Thanks Gary Nelson Thor, Iowa
Most embarrassing to admit to say, a vise is a vise. At a few months younger than you I just learned something, that my vise, a 8 inch Yuasa is a angle lock. I have to have my son remove it , I can't strange If I spelled Yuasa correct but it says made in NY USA? thanks sam
THANK YOU...for sharing.
love your humour....from Canukada.
😀
I think for almost 35 years I put the jaws on upside down caught lots of grief explaining why. But I could wipe the bottom and never have chips under my parallels.
Thanks
Very interesting and educational. Thank you Sir.
I was wondering if you could do a video on getting a better finish on steel in the lathe I 'm retired hobby machinist and don't know what I'm doing wrong I've picked up better tooling went to carbied changed work speeds still not happy .you have great videos would like to meet you someday. Thank you very much. I work with craftsman 12-36 with quick change and bridgeport.
I already have one. What's the name and number escape s me
But I noticed something else. On the Kurt, when you took your hand off the handle, the lift receded almost completely. What this means is that the lift will be there iff you machine the part leaning on the vice handle. This could be due to 'play' in the mill's table ways, not in the vice at all.
There goes my beautiful self-centering vice (it has two moving Jaws, no stationary jaws. How sad, how expensive 😢
Mr Pete I have no friends but I I’m a snitch and y tells everyone about you great teaching ,,,,,,,,,lol
Thanks
I was a bit surprised that the Angle Vise is a culprit of movement also! I guess there is no substitute for a Lead Hammer!!
lol
That was interesting. A small difference, but it still exists.
And so you know, I did supply a rimshot for you at the appropriate moment. "Ba-dum chi."
Thanks.
It would seem that the best practice is to clamp work directly to the milling table when accuracy is important. I was disappointed to see ANY lift in the Anglock vise.
So does that mean that they don’t work and they still lift so don’t worry about paying all of that extra money to buy one when you need to hit down the work anyway and end up with the same result
Wow that was an eye opener. Could there be a malfunction in the Kurt?
Yes
Can't agree more , love my kurt , once you go kurt you will never go back , lol 🙃
prentice emler wrong I have 2 Kurt vises you still have to hit the work with a lead Hammer don't trust that's why I still have Bridgeport vices I still have to Tamp down with the lead Hammer but you know what I didn't pay that much
@@plymouth-hl20ton37 ok thanks for letting me know ,I been using some old vices for a long time , and it got to where I the work quality was not in tolerance, so I bought a kurt , and my work was in tolerance , I am new to that vice , thanks again for letting me know that it may require tapping with .lead hammer , take care
Good Day Mate,
Coffee Brewing, first video to start before watching the snow,
Saw you complete the eBay "Reduce the Duplicates in the Hoard". Maybe 100 for Round 2?
I am anxiously waiting Mr Pete222 aka Tubalcain's T-Shirt store. I need some new ones for spring thaw.
How about sme stickers too?
IDEA, Like Keith Fenner has, the magnetic signs for the side of your Auction / Garage Sale CAR. Announce INTERNATIONAL INTERNET SHOP TEACHER ON BOARD
TTFN
E'fd Communications I agree Mr. Pete aka tubalcain needs to sell some T shirts. I would buy an extra- large!
Very useful info
Did you use that pointer in school to smack a students knuckles when the brain didn't work when operating a machine ? lol.
Yes
Is that a pointer you've got in your hand or a cane? Best to check when dealing with an old-school teacher :-). Or is it what my former Masters used to call "constructive ambiguity"? lol
lol
Thanks for sharing sir..
Good one
Thanks
More interesting than most "Scientific" videos.
Thanks
Good morning
I have a pair of Kurt vises I will keep my Bridgeport vices, I was always taught to use lead hammer so Kurt vises to me are overrated
Another informative video. Now I know why machinists need to tap down their work with a hammer.
If it doesn't say Crescent on the handle, it's a crescent hammer.
i wrote a song for my EX-girlfriend, " when your phone doesn't ring, you will know it's me."
."
Watching the MIT mill tutorial I remember a section where he addresses the Kurt vise lifting issue. It's at the 15 minute mark th-cam.com/video/mn-I6TlY5mU/w-d-xo.html
“Unscientific” does not mean “invalid”. This is real-world conditions.
I have more vices than vises, I think you might be the other way around! lol
Oh and getting real close to 200k subs!! That is quite the accomplishment congrats! :-)
It doesn't look like there is any advantage to an angle lock vice!!!!!