This man has a conscience; he actually feels bad for the customer and he's frustrated with himself that something like this could happen. What's wonderful about this situation is that he's taking full responsibility for the part failure and he's making good on it. He's right; sometimes parts fail or have some sort of defect or design flaw. Regardless, this man is a credit to his profession; if I resided anywhere near his business, I would most definitely bring my Toyota Rav4 hybrid to his shop for maintenance and other repairs once the factory warranty is expired.
Great video, that could have ended badly with the customer losing all the coolant and severe engine damage. I like the way you take care of the customer. Well done.
You are an honest man, and a great mechanic. Thank you for sharing your experience with this. Many of us appreciate your straightforward advice and knowledge of the Toyotas. Have a great day my friend.
Things like this happen from time to time. It's how you deal with it that matters. I'm about to do a full kit on my Tundra again, and I'm not looking forward to it, but the piece of mind will be worth it.
O rings should never be used for large hot pipes. They should go back to proper gaskets that has worked for 100s of years. Praise the Lord for honest mechanics like you Peter. 👍👍🙏🙏
It seems to be a real design issue. But I agree on the gasket vs O ring. Just a odd WP design and placement of Outlet and Inlet ports. That block is iron. Is the WP as well? I still have my parts out in the garage, I want to have a closer look later today.
Was the timing kit and water pump from the toyota dealership parts dept or after market from napa auto parts but yes silicon grease works great use it for all my o rings for my pool pump motor and seals. But its nice that you going to fix asap because your the type of gentlemen who won't fall asleep the whole night because it will bother you well done great video👌👏
My same concern: After Market or OEM Toyota, kit. I had thought the damaged O ring seemed a shade larger than the original. But that is difficult to confirm from my arm-chair.
Peter, Enjoy your Toyota work, I work on almost every brand. Your a great teacher.... I just had this same type of return failure. Maybe 8 weeks ago. The vehicle went out for seven days and started to loose coolant. When I removed the leaking new waterpump the new oring was compressed with signs of leaking. No torn oring? Take a close look at the oring diameter opening on the failed waterpump? Use magnified eyes with light! Since it is aluminum my failed return waterpump was slightly dented. And out of round just enough to leak! When I examined the area where the oring compressed down around the pipe you will see the taper for the oring. And may see the “Flat Dent or crush” area where the waterpump assembly was apparently crushed or dropped. Making the diameter of the opening just a bit out of round........no oring will seal or work! When my my parts supplier sent a second kit, it had the same crush area. I sent the new kit back. And ordered from another supplier! The third kit was fine! To me it seems to be a build flaw or maybe a shipping damage problem. The pumps rolls around inside of the kit boxes! Maybe they are dropped But to have two with the same flaw? I need to play the lottery! Good luck
Great video. Been there myself. Sometimes no matter how careful you are an install goes bad for one reason or another. I like how you care for and treat your customers. If I lived closer I would have you service my newer vehicles.
Thanks for sharing the lesson with us. I encountered two similar situations due to my own negligence. The first was a seal on a thermostat that I tightened without noticing a rubber O-ring was loose and partially out, so coolant leaked on the spot. The second was the valve cover gasket again loose and partially coming out of the grove when I mounted it but failed to check it until the following day. I did both jobs before and was overly confident. My solution is to use silicone grease as temporary 'glue' to make the rubber gasket / seal stay.
Watching this makes me reconsider attempting a timing belt job on my third gen. That you posted something that was a negative adds value to all your videos.
I need one on my 1st gen, but even the Haynes Manual says to not even try, unless you really are skilled enough. Sounds like advising against DIY surgery.
Many o-ring lubricant suggestions here ... liquid dish soap, silicone, dielectric, white lithium, and Toyota O-ring grease. My question is ... what do the instructions say to use? I worked in a hydraulic component overhaul shop for over 20 years and learned that using the wrong lube is asking for trouble. My experience was to carefully follow the published guides. Where no specific lube was directed to use on o-rings - then use the lube the component was designed to use. In this case - coolant/antifreeze. It has a certain lubricity to it ... can take the heat ... and doesn't contaminate the system. On a side note: most o-rings in our shop specifically called for the use petrolatum (Vaseline). We stepped outside the box thinking silicone would be even better. Wrong! The customers started complaining about clogged filters and when we sent the filters out for diagnosis the findings were that they were clogged with microscopic silicone balls! Back to petrolatum and the problems disappeared.
You are one rare mechanic. So many others would be offering a number of excuses as to why it leaked. That quality is hard to find nowadays in a mechanic/technician.
I wish there were more people like you. You are taking care of the issue with no excuses, no finger pointing and with as much haste as possible. If I lived close enough, I would take my car to you.
I have always worried about this situation. I have done literally 100 of these . I always use rubber grease and install water pump to this boring first as you push on pump .
Love my 2006 4runner 4x4 V8. Sad to learn that it has such weakness in water pump instal. Glad that I always let the dealer deal with it. Have not had a problem 210K miles..
Owning up to your mistake and actually filming it takes balls. Much respect to you and I hope your claim goes through and you get paid the 8 hours for this job.
@@monkmodemalik8225 it is a bad design. But there is a right and wrong way to install it. Therefore it was a mistake. Which is unfortunate for him because I do believe he is a great Toyota tech but nobody is perfect and I respect that he has the balls to make such a video. I’m sure there aren’t many guys out there willing to show people jobs that have come back. So mad respect to this man.
It's good to see an honest mechanic, the dealership allways tries to charge you for their mistakes and it's up to you to be vigilant and call them out, but they usually negotiate once you call them out.
You’re are such an honest and ethical person Peter to post this. That is such a tough job. I wish I was close enough to bring in my daughter’s Matrix for a complete check up.
@@charvakkarpe No Sir i'm not, I am not sure who makes it but it's branded Toyota. I use it on every O-ring I install, from diesel trucks to Harley Davidson's and have never had an issue...It's good stuff
I did the exact same job on my wife’s GX-470. I used it as an excuse to buy 2 new torque wrenches. The timing belt kit was really convenient. Came with all the parts needed. I took my time and spent just a few hours a day on it. About 14 hours total. Not really a hard job, but a long a long one. Lots of parts to remove. I wouldn’t want to do it again so soon after the first time.
I think the problem was the bad quality of the O ring, but grease always helps Last month I did the same job on same car, already passed 5 weeks with not problem, hopefully coontinues like that Thanks for posting man as ppreciated
Lithium grease is good when you have hard plastic parts working on metal parts, ex metal screw in teflon nut, it doesn't attack or swell the plastic, but it may deteriorate rubberised materials.
Thank you for the video. Getting ready to change the timing belt on an 05 tundra with 160k miles that has never been changed. I also agree soap is the best lubricant.
Welcome to the club! Same thing happened to me. When I installed it, I thought the O-ring installed a little lose but I buttoned everything up anyway. Bad choice! And its hard to tell if it seats correctly, you just cross your fingers. Nothing like starting it up for the first time and there is a water fall of anti freeze pouring down!
What an unfortunate mess. I did mine in 2014 and it's still holding, but I don't remember that small O ring. The job took me 10 hours and I don't envy anyone this task.
You might want to try some Parker O-Lube to lubricate the o-ring. A tube will last very nearly forever. I commend you on showing the good and bad of being a tech. I hope your customer watched this. They are blessed with an honest mechanic, something that is sadly hard to find in our world. All the best to you and yours!
Thank you for Sharing that. I will be doing this job next week on my 04 4runner and have been researching. Sounds like you are a hard working and honest individual. Keep up the great work!
You can use vegetable oil on the seal or any rubber seal or bushing as a lubricant as it doesn't swell or affect rubber like petroleum based products do.
I encountered a similar situation doing a timing belt on my 1990 Mitsubishi Montero with the 3.0L V6. There is a coolant tube with an O-ring that connects to the water pump. Like the Toyota you cannot see if it goes in properly. The last person who replaced the water pump used a little RTV gasket maker around the O-ring as an extra precaution. I didn't use gasket maker but just lubed the O-ring with coolant. No leaks but it looks like a weak point for leaks.
Peter, have you considered doing a cooling system pressure test before proceeding with the rest of the install? It may be the confirmation you are looking for.
oh god, I feel your pain man. it looks as if water pump casting was just ever so slightly off or something to cause just a slight misalignment. Thanks for showing us this issue. Best of luck!
IBefore I purchased a toyota.... I wonder what was involed in the goofy belt replacement.. NOW I know..and have written off a Toyota product that requires belt/replacement... Thank You. One 10 cent "0" ring defective and a big expensive job down the tubes. I thought Japanese engineers would have been smarter when designing "maintainability". Another great video..
Oh my friend. 2008 Lexus GX 470 and the exact same thing happened to me. I was trying to line up the water pump and had to pull it back out just half an inch and put it back in and I never gave that O-ring a second thought. I gave it lots of thought when it started to leak and I had to trace back. I ended up taking the intake off and while I was at it I was able to loosen up that metal tube, replace the O-ring and fix it. I also replaced the one coolant hose in the valley that was hard as a rock. Probably should’ve done the starter while I was at it.
I literally just put the water pump on my 2005 Toyota Sequoia a couple of days ago… Fingers crossed that I don’t have this problem. Thanks for the heads up
I did this same exact job for a Lexus GX470 a few months ago and remember going through the same thoughts and worrying about that blind o-ring. The method I used was to apply force only at the point where the o-ring was located and only proceeded once I felt it seat. Don't even think about using the flange bolts to seat the pump and o-ring as this will surely cause damage to the o-ring.
If you are , for example a/c delco , or napa approved facility . You pay a membership fee . You can get reimbursed , ie file a labor claim, and be refunded the labor charge . But unfortunately this looks like an installation failure , rather than a true new part failure .
Difficult situation and I've been there myself. I usually lube O-rings with silicone plumbing grease to assist with installation and sealing. I feel for you and also learned my lesson the hard way.
That’s what I was thinking about using silicone grease. Peter said he was going to use dish soap as a lubricant and I’m sure it would work but the install should be done quickly so the soap doesn’t have time to dry out. And cause the o ring to not slide into place.
What a bummer. I like messing around and doing my own repairs, but any job over 3 hours annoys me. An 8 hour redo would kill my attention span for a month.
This would have been a good time to use a Stant 30 lb Pressurized Cooling System Tester. Just connect it to the radiator and pump it up. Watch the gauge to see if pressure decays. Use it anytime the coolant system has been opened. Can also check the pressure cap for leaks and if the relief valve relieves. Pressure caps are pretty cheap and can burst these new radiators easy if the relief fails to relieve. People tend to wait till the radiator blows at the seams and blame the radiator when it was a faulty cap not relieving.
Rookie mistake. Always lube o-rings before reassembly. I've done hundreds of timing belts on the 1UZ and 2UZ engine and never had any issues pinching the 2 supplied o-rings that comes with the kit.
You are a good man my friend. When my truck is ready for a timing belt I am bringing it to you. I live in SLC UT. But to me it would be worth it to me to have you do the job. See you soon.
Happened to me on my 03 sequoia. Only much faster. While I was filling the coolant it was streaming out on that spot. Pretty frustrating knowing you have another 6-8 hours of labor ahead of you.. now I know i should feel the o ring gasket “lock” into place, rather than just snugging it up.
Thanks for sharing the nightmare. I have never seen an o ring shred like that in such an application. Defective manufacturing possible cause. (incomplete vulcanization)
It's nice to see a good mechanic taking ownership of his work both good and bad. Those O rings do require a lubricant in order to go on properly. However, it would be wise to take a dial micrometer and measure the inside diameter (ID) of the bore in which that O ring resides. I have found that many after market items, such as this water pump, can have an ID that is smaller than the factory one. It's just from poor casting and low quality. I have learned the hard way that on most Toyota engines it is better to spend the few extra dollars for factory original parts instead of using after market parts. I've had to eat several Toyota engines because the after market parts were not quite the same as the originals. Now, I measure EVERYTHING AND DO SO TWICE! I've found many after market parts that were way of and could have cost me more engines. Therefore, for anything such as water pumps, oil pumps, cam followers and so on, I just get the factory parts. I've had no issues since adopting that course of action. It's the same old story of you get that for which you pay. If you pay a junk price then you get junk parts.
Clean all the dirt off the tube. Install o ring dry. Coat o-ring with light amount of silicone paste. Apply a light coat of silicone paste on the water pump portion that slides over the o-ring. Install pump slowly and even while guiding the tube into the water pump. Should slide on smooth. Check for leaks while bleeding cooling system.
I'm just brainstorming here for a way to catch this during install: since that is a coolant path, what if after installing the water pump, you covered the outlet and applied air/smoke to an inlet? Would that work to see if there's a leak at that o-ring? I'm thinking if that path was on the block side of the thermostat, you could blow air/smoke into the block drain valve, or if it's on the radiator side of the thermostat, you could blow air/smoke in through a hose line. Would that work?
We had a lot of failures of this same repair in my Dealership. It was due to the source of the water pump had changed . The machined part on the water pump was cutting the o-ring . After we sourced a different water pump the problem was resolved. Sometimes you can lube the o-ring and do everything right and it still comes back . It can happen to any of us
O-ring rolled upon installation, causing that damage. It was unlikely that the o-ring was defective. You just have to be suuuuper careful installing those and make sure they're well lubricated. I use dish soap to make them slick enough.
Wow, so sad! After looking at the water pump design where the pipe was installed, I would agree, its a poor design. Just wondering what was the mileage on this truck. Also is the V6 design similar? Thank you for sharing, you are one of the few technicians who truly cares about their customers.
Check the alignment of the pipe and water pump before adding installing the o ring. Should be in the center. If offset, will be ruined again. I did my 2uz engine on my gs400 and went ok. Used all factory oem parts. Good luck.
did he say an 8 hour job!? I guess on a Toyota it only needs doing every 200k miles. It doesn't take 8 hours on a Subaru, but gets done twice as many times ;-)
This happened to me last summer. Water pump gasket started leaking a few days after I installed it. Had to do the job twice and purchase a higher quality gasket.
With that situation, it might be a good idea to throw a pressure test on the cooling system before buttoning it back up to expose any possible leaks from that o ring.
Peter you are so lucky you can claim the labour, there is no way our parts supplier would cop that over here in Australia 🇦🇺 they would say you pinched the seal on install your fault no clam possible. I do feel for you I had this happen also.
Hello Toyota Maintenance, many people use silicone grease for O-rings, despite Toyota caling for liquid soap, probably grease eliminates the risk of pinching the O-ring?
A mechanic who fixes cars for a living should know these basic things. If a part that has an O ring on it has to be pushed onto another part then the O ring cannot be dry. It needs to be pre lubricated. The CarWizard explained it very nicely in one of his video when he talked about installing a fuel injector (with O ring on it) to the railing.
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This man has a conscience; he actually feels bad for the customer and he's frustrated with himself that something like this could happen. What's wonderful about this situation is that he's taking full responsibility for the part failure and he's making good on it. He's right; sometimes parts fail or have some sort of defect or design flaw. Regardless, this man is a credit to his profession; if I resided anywhere near his business, I would most definitely bring my Toyota Rav4 hybrid to his shop for maintenance and other repairs once the factory warranty is expired.
"If nothing bad ever happens, you aren't doing anything." You're making it right and doing your due diligence. Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for posting the good and the bad. You're a good man sir.
Great video, that could have ended badly with the customer losing all the coolant and severe engine damage. I like the way you take care of the customer. Well done.
we use silicone grease on these types of o rings.
silicon grease is good ,im using dielectric grease,works really nice
I was gonna suggest silicone grease also. It says is good for lubricating "O" rings.
What about toyota rubber grease?
K-Y Jelly works too!!!
Nah.... Best to use vaseline or wheel bearing grease, in fact anything petroleum based on a rubber o-ring .....
You are an honest man, and a great mechanic. Thank you for sharing your experience with this. Many of us appreciate your straightforward advice and knowledge of the Toyotas. Have a great day my friend.
You are a standout man for accepting your mistakes. Thank you for your videos, I have learned so much from your channel. Thank you so much.
Peter, At moments like this, it is important for you to know that you are not alone :-)
Things like this happen from time to time. It's how you deal with it that matters. I'm about to do a full kit on my Tundra again, and I'm not looking forward to it, but the piece of mind will be worth it.
Your honesty and hard work should transfer to the main stream media/fake news.
Thanks for a great video.
O rings should never be used for large hot pipes. They should go back to proper gaskets that has worked for 100s of years. Praise the Lord for honest mechanics like you Peter. 👍👍🙏🙏
It seems to be a real design issue. But I agree on the gasket vs O ring. Just a odd WP design and placement of Outlet and Inlet ports. That block is iron. Is the WP as well? I still have my parts out in the garage, I want to have a closer look later today.
That gasket almost looks abraded as if the pump were *vibrating* in some odd way.
Was the timing kit and water pump from the toyota dealership parts dept or after market from napa auto parts but yes silicon grease works great use it for all my o rings for my pool pump motor and seals. But its nice that you going to fix asap because your the type of gentlemen who won't fall asleep the whole night because it will bother you well done great video👌👏
My same concern: After Market or OEM Toyota, kit. I had thought the damaged O ring seemed a shade larger than the original. But that is difficult to confirm from my arm-chair.
Peter,
Enjoy your Toyota work, I work on almost every brand. Your a great teacher....
I just had this same type of return failure. Maybe 8 weeks ago. The vehicle went out for seven days and started to loose coolant.
When I removed the leaking new waterpump the new oring was compressed with signs of leaking. No torn oring?
Take a close look at the oring diameter opening on the failed waterpump? Use magnified eyes with light!
Since it is aluminum my failed return waterpump was slightly dented. And out of round just enough to leak!
When I examined the area where the oring compressed down around the pipe you will see the taper for the oring.
And may see the “Flat Dent or crush” area where the waterpump assembly was apparently crushed or dropped.
Making the diameter of the opening just a bit out of round........no oring will seal or work!
When my my parts supplier sent a second kit, it had the same crush area. I sent the new kit back.
And ordered from another supplier! The third kit was fine!
To me it seems to be a build flaw or maybe a shipping damage problem.
The pumps rolls around inside of the kit boxes! Maybe they are dropped
But to have two with the same flaw? I need to play the lottery!
Good luck
Great video. Been there myself. Sometimes no matter how careful you are an install goes bad for one reason or another. I like how you care for and treat your customers. If I lived closer I would have you service my newer vehicles.
Thanks for sharing the lesson with us. I encountered two similar situations due to my own negligence.
The first was a seal on a thermostat that I tightened without noticing a rubber O-ring was loose and partially out, so coolant leaked on the spot. The second was the valve cover gasket again loose and partially coming out of the grove when I mounted it but failed to check it until the following day. I did both jobs before and was overly confident. My solution is to use silicone grease as temporary 'glue' to make the rubber gasket / seal stay.
Watching this makes me reconsider attempting a timing belt job on my third gen. That you posted something that was a negative adds value to all your videos.
I need one on my 1st gen, but even the Haynes Manual says to not even try, unless you really are skilled enough. Sounds like advising against DIY surgery.
What a nightmare! I hope they reimburse you. I have my doubts.
Massive respect for your heroic integrity, Peter! Your customers are truly fortunate!
Many o-ring lubricant suggestions here ... liquid dish soap, silicone, dielectric, white lithium, and Toyota O-ring grease. My question is ... what do the instructions say to use? I worked in a hydraulic component overhaul shop for over 20 years and learned that using the wrong lube is asking for trouble. My experience was to carefully follow the published guides. Where no specific lube was directed to use on o-rings - then use the lube the component was designed to use. In this case - coolant/antifreeze. It has a certain lubricity to it ... can take the heat ... and doesn't contaminate the system. On a side note: most o-rings in our shop specifically called for the use petrolatum (Vaseline). We stepped outside the box thinking silicone would be even better. Wrong! The customers started complaining about clogged filters and when we sent the filters out for diagnosis the findings were that they were clogged with microscopic silicone balls! Back to petrolatum and the problems disappeared.
maybe 'system fluid' is the answer? Antifreeze is plenty slick.
Thanks for the warning Peter, I hope it go well for you.
You are one rare mechanic. So many others would be offering a number of excuses as to why it leaked. That quality is hard to find nowadays in a mechanic/technician.
I wish there were more people like you. You are taking care of the issue with no excuses, no finger pointing and with as much haste as possible. If I lived close enough, I would take my car to you.
If this were any other make, it would be "those stupid engineers should be shot." Since it's a Toyota, "the design is not good."
Funny and true but not an unfounded bias.
You are Gentleman and a Scholar my friend. Kudos to your honesty and determination to keep your customer happy. As always, thank you for your videos 👍
I have always worried about this situation. I have done literally 100 of these .
I always use rubber grease and install water pump to this boring first as you push on pump .
Your honesty will gain and keep customers. Excellent example of how to run a reputable establishment.
Love my 2006 4runner 4x4 V8. Sad to learn that it has such weakness in water pump instal. Glad that I always let the dealer deal with it. Have not had a problem 210K miles..
Owning up to your mistake and actually filming it takes balls. Much respect to you and I hope your claim goes through and you get paid the 8 hours for this job.
Its not his mistake. It’s Toyota bad design (even I can accept as Toyota fan)
@@monkmodemalik8225 it is a bad design. But there is a right and wrong way to install it. Therefore it was a mistake. Which is unfortunate for him because I do believe he is a great Toyota tech but nobody is perfect and I respect that he has the balls to make such a video. I’m sure there aren’t many guys out there willing to show people jobs that have come back. So mad respect to this man.
Thanks for showing the real side of the automotive shop. I like your videos a lot.
Such integrity is seldom found in the world today. I salute you sir.
Install with grease then do a coolant pressure test when back together
It's good to see an honest mechanic, the dealership allways tries to charge you for their mistakes and it's up to you to be vigilant and call them out, but they usually negotiate once you call them out.
You’re are such an honest and ethical person Peter to post this. That is such a tough job. I wish I was close enough to bring in my daughter’s Matrix for a complete check up.
I use Toyota O-ring grease only.....works on all O-rings
I assume you're joking, right? Or do they make their own grease, like they make FIPG?
@@charvakkarpe No Sir i'm not, I am not sure who makes it but it's branded Toyota. I use it on every O-ring I install, from diesel trucks to Harley Davidson's and have never had an issue...It's good stuff
I used liquid soap on mine, went together well.
KY jelly lol
I did the exact same job on my wife’s GX-470. I used it as an excuse to buy 2 new torque wrenches. The timing belt kit was really convenient. Came with all the parts needed. I took my time and spent just a few hours a day on it. About 14 hours total. Not really a hard job, but a long a long one. Lots of parts to remove. I wouldn’t want to do it again so soon after the first time.
I really wish you lived anywhere near me I would have you and only you work on my vehicles thanks for sharing keep up the good work and videos
Thanks Peter!
Admirable to see an honest mechanic who does right by his customer!
I think the problem was the bad quality of the O ring, but grease always helps
Last month I did the same job on same car, already passed 5 weeks with not problem, hopefully coontinues like that
Thanks for posting man as ppreciated
I’ve had the same problem before, I now always use white lithium grease on the ‘O’ rings and have not had a problem again with them leaking.
Lithium grease deteriorates o rings. Use silicon grease.
Silicone, or rubber grease works good.
Silicone
Lithium grease is good when you have hard plastic parts working on metal parts, ex metal screw in teflon nut, it doesn't attack or swell the plastic, but it may deteriorate rubberised materials.
@@jgoncalodm Been using it for years, never had a problem with it.
Thank you for the video. Getting ready to change the timing belt on an 05 tundra with 160k miles that has never been changed. I also agree soap is the best lubricant.
Learned this lesson doing my starter. Key is dish soap! Cannot go in dry. Slips in easy after using dish soap no problems since.
I work with vacuum systems and we use silicone paste on o-rings for a good seal.
Thank you my friend. Your integrity is impeccable.
Welcome to the club! Same thing happened to me. When I installed it, I thought the O-ring installed a little lose but I buttoned everything up anyway. Bad choice! And its hard to tell if it seats correctly, you just cross your fingers. Nothing like starting it up for the first time and there is a water fall of anti freeze pouring down!
What an unfortunate mess. I did mine in 2014 and it's still holding, but I don't remember that small O ring. The job took me 10 hours and I don't envy anyone this task.
I respect your honesty and integrity sir!
Hats off to you for taking care of the customer. You are good man.
You might want to try some Parker O-Lube to lubricate the o-ring. A tube will last very nearly forever. I commend you on showing the good and bad of being a tech. I hope your customer watched this. They are blessed with an honest mechanic, something that is sadly hard to find in our world. All the best to you and yours!
It’s great to see an honest mechanic. Good work sir!
Great job owning up to your mistake. Most of us have been there. For O-ring lubrication, I have found that Parker Super O-Lube is about the best.
Thank you for Sharing that. I will be doing this job next week on my 04 4runner and have been researching. Sounds like you are a hard working and honest individual. Keep up the great work!
You can use vegetable oil on the seal or any rubber seal or bushing as a lubricant as it doesn't swell or affect rubber like petroleum based products do.
I encountered a similar situation doing a timing belt on my 1990 Mitsubishi Montero with the 3.0L V6. There is a coolant tube with an O-ring that connects to the water pump. Like the Toyota you cannot see if it goes in properly. The last person who replaced the water pump used a little RTV gasket maker around the O-ring as an extra precaution. I didn't use gasket maker but just lubed the O-ring with coolant. No leaks but it looks like a weak point for leaks.
Peter, have you considered doing a cooling system pressure test before proceeding with the rest of the install? It may be the confirmation you are looking for.
oh god, I feel your pain man. it looks as if water pump casting was just ever so slightly off or something to cause just a slight misalignment. Thanks for showing us this issue. Best of luck!
Who are you claiming labor from?
IBefore I purchased a toyota.... I wonder what was involed in the goofy belt replacement.. NOW I know..and have written off a Toyota product that requires belt/replacement... Thank You. One 10 cent "0" ring defective and a big expensive job down the tubes. I thought Japanese engineers would have been smarter when designing "maintainability". Another great video..
Maybe put it on and off a couple of times to see if the oring survived
I’ve always used a lubricant called molykote 111. Never had a o ring shred on me.
Oh my friend. 2008 Lexus GX 470 and the exact same thing happened to me. I was trying to line up the water pump and had to pull it back out just half an inch and put it back in and I never gave that O-ring a second thought. I gave it lots of thought when it started to leak and I had to trace back. I ended up taking the intake off and while I was at it I was able to loosen up that metal tube, replace the O-ring and fix it. I also replaced the one coolant hose in the valley that was hard as a rock. Probably should’ve done the starter while I was at it.
I literally just put the water pump on my 2005 Toyota Sequoia a couple of days ago… Fingers crossed that I don’t have this problem. Thanks for the heads up
I did this same exact job for a Lexus GX470 a few months ago and remember going through the same thoughts and worrying about that blind o-ring. The method I used was to apply force only at the point where the o-ring was located and only proceeded once I felt it seat. Don't even think about using the flange bolts to seat the pump and o-ring as this will surely cause damage to the o-ring.
What does it mean that you have to file a claim?
If you are , for example a/c delco , or napa approved facility . You pay a membership fee .
You can get reimbursed , ie file a labor claim, and be refunded the labor charge .
But unfortunately this looks like an installation failure , rather than a true new part failure .
Difficult situation and I've been there myself. I usually lube O-rings with silicone plumbing grease to assist with installation and sealing. I feel for you and also learned my lesson the hard way.
That’s what I was thinking about using silicone grease. Peter said he was going to use dish soap as a lubricant and I’m sure it would work but the install should be done quickly so the soap doesn’t have time to dry out. And cause the o ring to not slide into place.
What a bummer. I like messing around and doing my own repairs, but any job over 3 hours annoys me. An 8 hour redo would kill my attention span for a month.
This would have been a good time to use a Stant 30 lb Pressurized Cooling System Tester. Just connect it to the radiator and pump it up. Watch the gauge to see if pressure decays. Use it anytime the coolant system has been opened. Can also check the pressure cap for leaks and if the relief valve relieves. Pressure caps are pretty cheap and can burst these new radiators easy if the relief fails to relieve. People tend to wait till the radiator blows at the seams and blame the radiator when it was a faulty cap not relieving.
Rookie mistake. Always lube o-rings before reassembly. I've done hundreds of timing belts on the 1UZ and 2UZ engine and never had any issues pinching the 2 supplied o-rings that comes with the kit.
You are a good man my friend. When my truck is ready for a timing belt I am bringing it to you. I live in SLC UT. But to me it would be worth it to me to have you do the job. See you soon.
Happened to me on my 03 sequoia. Only much faster. While I was filling the coolant it was streaming out on that spot. Pretty frustrating knowing you have another 6-8 hours of labor ahead of you.. now I know i should feel the o ring gasket “lock” into place, rather than just snugging it up.
Thanks for sharing the nightmare. I have never seen an o ring shred like that in such an application. Defective manufacturing possible cause. (incomplete vulcanization)
The old Mitsubishi 3.0 engines had a large o-ring you had to slide the water pump onto when installing. Never felt good until I leak checked them.
It's nice to see a good mechanic taking ownership of his work both good and bad. Those O rings do require a lubricant in order to go on properly. However, it would be wise to take a dial micrometer and measure the inside diameter (ID) of the bore in which that O ring resides. I have found that many after market items, such as this water pump, can have an ID that is smaller than the factory one. It's just from poor casting and low quality. I have learned the hard way that on most Toyota engines it is better to spend the few extra dollars for factory original parts instead of using after market parts. I've had to eat several Toyota engines because the after market parts were not quite the same as the originals. Now, I measure EVERYTHING AND DO SO TWICE! I've found many after market parts that were way of and could have cost me more engines. Therefore, for anything such as water pumps, oil pumps, cam followers and so on, I just get the factory parts. I've had no issues since adopting that course of action. It's the same old story of you get that for which you pay. If you pay a junk price then you get junk parts.
I hope you are using the Aisin timing belt/WP kit. I bet you are because I think you told me to use it.
Thank you for backing your work most places don't
You're an honest man and an excellent mechanic.
Clean all the dirt off the tube. Install o ring dry. Coat o-ring with light amount of silicone paste. Apply a light coat of silicone paste on the water pump portion that slides over the o-ring. Install pump slowly and even while guiding the tube into the water pump. Should slide on smooth. Check for leaks while bleeding cooling system.
I'm just brainstorming here for a way to catch this during install: since that is a coolant path, what if after installing the water pump, you covered the outlet and applied air/smoke to an inlet? Would that work to see if there's a leak at that o-ring? I'm thinking if that path was on the block side of the thermostat, you could blow air/smoke into the block drain valve, or if it's on the radiator side of the thermostat, you could blow air/smoke in through a hose line. Would that work?
We had a lot of failures of this same repair in my Dealership. It was due to the source of the water pump had changed . The machined part on the water pump was cutting the o-ring . After we sourced a different water pump the problem was resolved. Sometimes you can lube the o-ring and do everything right and it still comes back . It can happen to any of us
O-ring rolled upon installation, causing that damage. It was unlikely that the o-ring was defective. You just have to be suuuuper careful installing those and make sure they're well lubricated. I use dish soap to make them slick enough.
You are very honest man, congratulations
Good to learn from this and spot what potentially can go wrong!
Wow, so sad! After looking at the water pump design where the pipe was installed, I would agree, its a poor design. Just wondering what was the mileage on this truck. Also is the V6 design similar? Thank you for sharing, you are one of the few technicians who truly cares about their customers.
Check the alignment of the pipe and water pump before adding installing the o ring. Should be in the center. If offset, will be ruined again. I did my 2uz engine on my gs400 and went ok. Used all factory oem parts. Good luck.
Wondering why the o ring is not first installed on the pipe and lightly seated and then compressed by mounting and torquing the pump housing ....
I would be interested in knowing whether you get reimbursed for the labor or if reimbursement is denied.
Hard to find some one that stands behind there work thanks for sharing
A really admirable video! Thank you for your honesty!
much respect, Peter, you deserve success, halte durch!
did he say an 8 hour job!? I guess on a Toyota it only needs doing every 200k miles. It doesn't take 8 hours on a Subaru, but gets done twice as many times ;-)
@@wim0104 My 1st gen six needs the procedure every 90K miles @ $800+ for the job.
This happened to me last summer. Water pump gasket started leaking a few days after I installed it. Had to do the job twice and purchase a higher quality gasket.
Thanks for Your
Professionalism.
Things(Unwanted)
Do happen.😕
Nobody Got Hurt or Kill
REPAIRABLE😌
Godspeed!
With that situation, it might be a good idea to throw a pressure test on the cooling system before buttoning it back up to expose any possible leaks from that o ring.
Peter you are so lucky you can claim the labour, there is no way our parts supplier would cop that over here in Australia 🇦🇺 they would say you pinched the seal on install your fault no clam possible. I do feel for you I had this happen also.
You are an excellent and most trustworthy person.
Hello Toyota Maintenance, many people use silicone grease for O-rings, despite Toyota caling for liquid soap, probably grease eliminates the risk of pinching the O-ring?
we learn more from failure than success, thank you for sharing
A mechanic who fixes cars for a living should know these basic things. If a part that has an O ring on it has to be pushed onto another part then the O ring cannot be dry. It needs to be pre lubricated. The CarWizard explained it very nicely in one of his video when he talked about installing a fuel injector (with O ring on it) to the railing.
I thought you were going to talk about the cam seals. That's the real nightmare.