So... I'm not in the business of selling bike components, and I have run the PUSH ACS3 in my 170 Lyrik, putting some fair amount of time on it, and I have some honest info that might be helpful for those interested in the conversion. First, for what I will speculate are liability reasons, PUSH states that this conversion is one way only, meaning they state and retailers state you can't go back to the OEM air spring because the coil will score the inside of the steerer tube, which in turn will cause an air spring seal to leak. WRONG! On that, I ran the ACS3 for 6 months, including many days in the bike park and actually reverted back to an air spring recently to increase my travel from 170 to to 180mm. During the conversion teardown back I saw no scoring inside the steerer tube, and many laps post reversion I have had zero air bleed down past the piston seal. In my opinion the reason PUSH states the "one way conversion" advisory is that it is possible that scoring could happen, I would imagine especially if someone doesn't lube the coil well upon install or fails to do recommended basic service, and PUSH does not want to be held liable should such damage occur. I also have a DH bike utilizing a Boxxer A1 Team coil with many, many days of bike park on it, and it has no scoring inside the steerer tube. This is in part because I am a stickler for doing proper fork service, and having run a Boxxer, I knew that buttering the coil (the whole length) is very important. PUSH doesn't emphasize this the way SRAM does in the service manual. If you run the ASC3, I would strongly suggest buttering the whole coil well with compatible grease, and you should have no problem going back to air spring over a reasonable period of usage. Next point is oil... You can go with PUSH recommended oil OR, and this will make going back to air spring a much easier process should you do so, just use RockShox recommended 0W-30. Why? If you use the PUSH recommended oil, and if you do as I did with the syringe I used to service both ways, and if you failed to completely clean out the syringe when servicing with the two different oils you will see the PUSH oil coagulate in the syringe like snot, meaning it is somewhat incompatible and it will take a lot more cleaning in the fork than necessary should you just stray from the OEM recommendation. AND, if I remember correctly, PUSH advises going with 20 ml of their oil in both legs. RockShox explicitly warns against going over 10 ml in the damper side or damage to the Charger damper could happen. Not sure who has it more right, but 10 ml on the damper side has worked fine in thousands and thousands of Lyriks, and so I'd personally stick with RS's recommendations. As for the spring side, 0W-30 is the same oil RS recommends for its coil Boxxers as well as its air-sprung newer forks, including the Lyrik, and at the end of the day all it does is "splash" AKA "bath" lube the coils, dust seals and bushings; it doesn't do any duty as a damping fluid, and it will work perfectly fine for an ACS3 conversion just as it works well for a Boxxer coil. If you have an RS fork its probably best to stick with the oil its bushings and o-rings have been "seasoned" with regardless (IMO). PUSH lower fork dust seals... Do know that getting your steerer tubes into the PUSH seals is a major, major pain in the ass, so much so that after struggling quite some time I damaged mine and went back to the SKF seals, which work perfectly well. One problem I ran into with the ACS3 is the red cap on the spring shaft that the lower end of the coil sits on. Mine cracked up and dispersed itself into the coil. I suspect it happened during a spring swap, the cap sticking to the bottom of the coil, pulling it off the spring shaft yet leaving it inside the tube off kilter as the coil was removed, and when installing the new coil the dispositioned red cap never seated properly and therefore cracked-up. I'm in the process of trying to obtain a new one from PUSH, and I suspect mine is not a unique occurrence. You will need to either buy from PUSH a chamfer-less socket to install the top cap, or you will need to grind the chamfer out of a regular socket (the chamfer is inside a regular socket, and it is the first mm from the socket lip which angles inward to where the actual contacting tooth of the socket begins), which is easy if you have a die grinder with a sanding disk or access to a belt sander. You could even modify a regular socket with a flat file and ten minutes of sweat equity. But do be advised that if you use a regular store bought, non-modified socket, which will have an inner chamfer, the top cap has such a low hex head that you will more than likely mar the hell out of it when installing the top cap. Trust me; I did it. Lastly, if you ride PNW do know that you can run the coil weight PUSH recommends and be perfectly happy, or even stiffer, but if you take the bike on a trip to a rockier place like Trestle Bike Park, CO you may well need to drop down a coil below recommendation or your hands and wrists will take a huge beating, which defeats the point of the sweetness running a coil. That's the benefit of an air-spring; it is a no cost, easily adjustable thing of relative beauty. I moved to Colorado from Seattle last summer and brought with me the "stiffer is more expert" mentality (because out there popping roots etc is the game ) and paid the price of constantly sore wrists after my relocation, only to eventually realize that in the PNW the trails are much kinder (not technically) in terms smaller hit, constant impacts than the rockier, and chattery bullet-proof hard pack of more arid, desert(y) riding of places like CO and NM, and maybe, just maybe I needed to soften my sag just a skosh.
Well thanks for the input. I have a 2020 Enduro that came with the bottom tier fork internals! Also, my bike is already a tank, a spring shouldn’t be too noticeable. I’ve been on a 2014 Pike that I love, so I’m a little hesitant to go coil.
I'd start with it as-is, see how you like it, and go from there! Another option, if you don't want to mess with your warranty or add weight, is the damper upgrade! Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Hey guys, great video! I have a quick question: The improvement in fine bump sensitivity makes sense. What I'm curious about however, is how the ACS upgrade changes the fork's characteristics on really "pumpy" terrain. One thing I do love about air shocks is the progressive ramp and pop you get out of terrain (particularly on an EVIL). On older large travel coil forks, I remember them feeling almost "dead" in how well they soaked up every nuance of terrain. So yes, I'm curious how these behave on high speed, buffed trail where you're pumping features to send as many gaps as possible...? In other words, does the coil still offer a "reactive", progressive and poppy feel?
It depends in a large part on what spring rate you run. You can run a softer spring and get a bit more of that (can be countered a bit by increasing low speed compression on the trails you describe), or you can run a stiffer spring and not have any of that. That is what I ended up doing on my Megatower. Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
It all comes down to trial and error. Check out our latest video here to get an idea of what it all means and how to go about adjusting things: th-cam.com/video/CROmhTIgH7o/w-d-xo.html
So if I wanted a coil fork, what are the options, this and the other kit flying around in the comments, then the bomber z1, MRP has a coil fork too right? And what else? Does ohlins has a coil fork? Any idea Wich one is the best without looking at the price tags? In case that the best "coil fork" is with a conversion, I'll have to buy an entire air fork or is there a way to buy the chassis separately? Are those coil conversions compatible with either a lyric or a Manitou mezzer pro? (Both better/stiffer chassis than the fox 36)
Cane Creek Helm is a great fork, also offered as a coil option. Any of the ones that already come with a coil spring are going to be the best price-wise, since you don't have to buy the extra kit. I have owned both the Helm, the Ribbon, and a Grip2 36 with a Push conversion. I like the 36 the most, and then the Helm, and then the Ribbon. That said, I'd still probably get the coil Helm over the 36 with Push kit because of the substantial difference in price. Check those out here: www.fanatikbike.com/collections/forks?_=pf&pf_pt_product_type=Forks&pf_v_brand=Cane%20Creek th-cam.com/video/vMjpbsCU460/w-d-xo.html
Is there noticeable noise? That was one of the things I did not like about coil. My FOX spring would bang against the stancion. The shrink wrap would wind its way down and the noise would get loud. I have a Lyric select plus. I want to put a charger 2.1 rc2 in it. Would you recommend the push over it?
Good question. Our experience with this particular set up has been super positive. I have one on a 36, and Doug has one on a Lyrik. Neither of us has experienced clanking. We've also installed quite a few of them on customer's forks, and I haven't heard any negative feedback about that. We definitely always make sure to put a good amount of grease on the spring to help with that. Dan at Fanatik
@@toolfool3500 Oh gosh, another good question. I don't have back to back comparisons of all those variables, but I'd bet that you'd notice a bigger difference in terms of small bump compliance, support, etc, with the coil kit. On the other hand, you're also adding weight, and making it so you probably can't go back to air if you do install the coil.
I was wrong. Although you can pop a Grip2 damper and the like in there, the air spring side has a thicker walled stanchion, so the spring and top-cap won't fit into it. Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
@@aaronburela432 Ah, sorry, I misread the comment. The damper won't make a massive difference. Remember, the damper just adds control to the spring, which is the part that is doing all the work. The spring will be a more noticeable improvement.
That does look like a slick set-up, I have not tried it. The only counter-point I'd offer is that the ACS3 kit does allow you to control bottom out via the air piston. Thanks for watching! Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo Vorsprung offers adjustable control in the bottom out without a shock pump. Just have to turn a knob. Also easy to adjust different suspension lengths on your fork. Don't think you can do that on a Push.
@@FanatikBikeCo The smashpot has a controllable hydrolic anti bottom out. I am the proud owner of a Push 11 6 on the rear. I just wanted to increase the travel on the front from 160mm to 170mm. Coil has massively helped with arm pump as well. I love it.
So... I'm not in the business of selling bike components, and I have run the PUSH ACS3 in my 170 Lyrik, putting some fair amount of time on it, and I have some honest info that might be helpful for those interested in the conversion.
First, for what I will speculate are liability reasons, PUSH states that this conversion is one way only, meaning they state and retailers state you can't go back to the OEM air spring because the coil will score the inside of the steerer tube, which in turn will cause an air spring seal to leak. WRONG! On that, I ran the ACS3 for 6 months, including many days in the bike park and actually reverted back to an air spring recently to increase my travel from 170 to to 180mm. During the conversion teardown back I saw no scoring inside the steerer tube, and many laps post reversion I have had zero air bleed down past the piston seal. In my opinion the reason PUSH states the "one way conversion" advisory is that it is possible that scoring could happen, I would imagine especially if someone doesn't lube the coil well upon install or fails to do recommended basic service, and PUSH does not want to be held liable should such damage occur. I also have a DH bike utilizing a Boxxer A1 Team coil with many, many days of bike park on it, and it has no scoring inside the steerer tube. This is in part because I am a stickler for doing proper fork service, and having run a Boxxer, I knew that buttering the coil (the whole length) is very important. PUSH doesn't emphasize this the way SRAM does in the service manual. If you run the ASC3, I would strongly suggest buttering the whole coil well with compatible grease, and you should have no problem going back to air spring over a reasonable period of usage.
Next point is oil... You can go with PUSH recommended oil OR, and this will make going back to air spring a much easier process should you do so, just use RockShox recommended 0W-30. Why? If you use the PUSH recommended oil, and if you do as I did with the syringe I used to service both ways, and if you failed to completely clean out the syringe when servicing with the two different oils you will see the PUSH oil coagulate in the syringe like snot, meaning it is somewhat incompatible and it will take a lot more cleaning in the fork than necessary should you just stray from the OEM recommendation. AND, if I remember correctly, PUSH advises going with 20 ml of their oil in both legs. RockShox explicitly warns against going over 10 ml in the damper side or damage to the Charger damper could happen. Not sure who has it more right, but 10 ml on the damper side has worked fine in thousands and thousands of Lyriks, and so I'd personally stick with RS's recommendations. As for the spring side, 0W-30 is the same oil RS recommends for its coil Boxxers as well as its air-sprung newer forks, including the Lyrik, and at the end of the day all it does is "splash" AKA "bath" lube the coils, dust seals and bushings; it doesn't do any duty as a damping fluid, and it will work perfectly fine for an ACS3 conversion just as it works well for a Boxxer coil. If you have an RS fork its probably best to stick with the oil its bushings and o-rings have been "seasoned" with regardless (IMO).
PUSH lower fork dust seals... Do know that getting your steerer tubes into the PUSH seals is a major, major pain in the ass, so much so that after struggling quite some time I damaged mine and went back to the SKF seals, which work perfectly well.
One problem I ran into with the ACS3 is the red cap on the spring shaft that the lower end of the coil sits on. Mine cracked up and dispersed itself into the coil. I suspect it happened during a spring swap, the cap sticking to the bottom of the coil, pulling it off the spring shaft yet leaving it inside the tube off kilter as the coil was removed, and when installing the new coil the dispositioned red cap never seated properly and therefore cracked-up. I'm in the process of trying to obtain a new one from PUSH, and I suspect mine is not a unique occurrence.
You will need to either buy from PUSH a chamfer-less socket to install the top cap, or you will need to grind the chamfer out of a regular socket (the chamfer is inside a regular socket, and it is the first mm from the socket lip which angles inward to where the actual contacting tooth of the socket begins), which is easy if you have a die grinder with a sanding disk or access to a belt sander. You could even modify a regular socket with a flat file and ten minutes of sweat equity. But do be advised that if you use a regular store bought, non-modified socket, which will have an inner chamfer, the top cap has such a low hex head that you will more than likely mar the hell out of it when installing the top cap. Trust me; I did it.
Lastly, if you ride PNW do know that you can run the coil weight PUSH recommends and be perfectly happy, or even stiffer, but if you take the bike on a trip to a rockier place like Trestle Bike Park, CO you may well need to drop down a coil below recommendation or your hands and wrists will take a huge beating, which defeats the point of the sweetness running a coil. That's the benefit of an air-spring; it is a no cost, easily adjustable thing of relative beauty. I moved to Colorado from Seattle last summer and brought with me the "stiffer is more expert" mentality (because out there popping roots etc is the game ) and paid the price of constantly sore wrists after my relocation, only to eventually realize that in the PNW the trails are much kinder (not technically) in terms smaller hit, constant impacts than the rockier, and chattery bullet-proof hard pack of more arid, desert(y) riding of places like CO and NM, and maybe, just maybe I needed to soften my sag just a skosh.
Great feedback, thanks for writing in Larry! All very good points.
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Thanks for covering this topic. I hadn't researched this much and now I want to try it - haha.
Ordered one for my Yari 🤙🏿🤙🏿🤙🏿
Great understanding of the product, AND you make the effort to clean the fork after the work is done, well done young fellow 👍
I will pass your feedback along to Joe! Thanks for watching!
Dan at Fanatik
Well thanks for the input. I have a 2020 Enduro that came with the bottom tier fork internals! Also, my bike is already a tank, a spring shouldn’t be too noticeable. I’ve been on a 2014 Pike that I love, so I’m a little hesitant to go coil.
I'd start with it as-is, see how you like it, and go from there! Another option, if you don't want to mess with your warranty or add weight, is the damper upgrade!
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Hey guys, great video! I have a quick question:
The improvement in fine bump sensitivity makes sense. What I'm curious about however, is how the ACS upgrade changes the fork's characteristics on really "pumpy" terrain. One thing I do love about air shocks is the progressive ramp and pop you get out of terrain (particularly on an EVIL). On older large travel coil forks, I remember them feeling almost "dead" in how well they soaked up every nuance of terrain. So yes, I'm curious how these behave on high speed, buffed trail where you're pumping features to send as many gaps as possible...? In other words, does the coil still offer a "reactive", progressive and poppy feel?
It depends in a large part on what spring rate you run. You can run a softer spring and get a bit more of that (can be countered a bit by increasing low speed compression on the trails you describe), or you can run a stiffer spring and not have any of that. That is what I ended up doing on my Megatower.
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Did not know about this product. Air is an absolute no-buy for me. Thanks!
Cheers!
Really authentic video guys 💪🏻
Can I buy this for my zeb 180mm. And what is the website that I can buy this upgrade. Looks awesome
It is not something that is made for the ZEB, no. Sorry!
- Dan at Fanatik
Is the travel still adjustable? Let's say from 160mm to 180mm
Any additional information on adjusting LSC/HSC on a 150mm Lyrik Ultimate when adding a ACS3 Fork Coil conversion kit?
It all comes down to trial and error. Check out our latest video here to get an idea of what it all means and how to go about adjusting things: th-cam.com/video/CROmhTIgH7o/w-d-xo.html
Can you guys also a review of the Push HC97? There doesn't seem to be much info about that out there at all.
Done! th-cam.com/video/bYSInQQfsNc/w-d-xo.html
The ability too tune just better for me with air
They should make one for rockshox boxxer and fox 40/49
Hello what kind of oil is recommended to be poured into the damper side and which into the spring side. I would be very grateful for the answer
www.fanatikbike.com/products/fox-20-wt-gold-damper-fluid-32oz
That kind!
Thank you
So if I wanted a coil fork, what are the options, this and the other kit flying around in the comments, then the bomber z1, MRP has a coil fork too right? And what else? Does ohlins has a coil fork? Any idea Wich one is the best without looking at the price tags?
In case that the best "coil fork" is with a conversion, I'll have to buy an entire air fork or is there a way to buy the chassis separately? Are those coil conversions compatible with either a lyric or a Manitou mezzer pro? (Both better/stiffer chassis than the fox 36)
Cane Creek Helm is a great fork, also offered as a coil option. Any of the ones that already come with a coil spring are going to be the best price-wise, since you don't have to buy the extra kit. I have owned both the Helm, the Ribbon, and a Grip2 36 with a Push conversion. I like the 36 the most, and then the Helm, and then the Ribbon. That said, I'd still probably get the coil Helm over the 36 with Push kit because of the substantial difference in price. Check those out here:
www.fanatikbike.com/collections/forks?_=pf&pf_pt_product_type=Forks&pf_v_brand=Cane%20Creek
th-cam.com/video/vMjpbsCU460/w-d-xo.html
Is there noticeable noise? That was one of the things I did not like about coil. My FOX spring would bang against the stancion. The shrink wrap would wind its way down and the noise would get loud. I have a Lyric select plus. I want to put a charger 2.1 rc2 in it. Would you recommend the push over it?
Good question. Our experience with this particular set up has been super positive. I have one on a 36, and Doug has one on a Lyrik. Neither of us has experienced clanking. We've also installed quite a few of them on customer's forks, and I haven't heard any negative feedback about that. We definitely always make sure to put a good amount of grease on the spring to help with that.
Dan at Fanatik
Fanatik Bike Co. so you would recommend the push over upgrading to a charger 2.1 RC2?
@@toolfool3500 Oh gosh, another good question. I don't have back to back comparisons of all those variables, but I'd bet that you'd notice a bigger difference in terms of small bump compliance, support, etc, with the coil kit. On the other hand, you're also adding weight, and making it so you probably can't go back to air if you do install the coil.
How much weight, the coil spring will add to the Fork ?
Hey! ~250 grams.
Cheers!
Dan at Fanatik
Number 1
what about those new air release channels on the new fox 36 ? it seems not really applicable, to my eyes, or at least dumb to convert it :D
Will this fit lyrik select debonair 2020?
Is there a Fox 36 version of ACS3 with the black cap knob at the end instead of the grey one?
no buuuuuut you csn buy a carbon cap from hopp carbon parts, I have their carbon grip 2 knobs and its nice and stealth
@@seanhornchek6440 Just checked their website, good stuff. Thx for the info buddy.
Can you put a fox 36 kit on a Marzocchi Z1 fork?, because in theory are the same fork, rigth?
I do believe so, but I'd like to double check that. Push is closed for the holidays, but I'll get back to you!
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
I was wrong. Although you can pop a Grip2 damper and the like in there, the air spring side has a thicker walled stanchion, so the spring and top-cap won't fit into it.
Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
@@FanatikBikeCo thanks bro, happy holidays 👉🏾😎👉🏾
1: 20 How do you fill the negative chamber?
is this compatible with the z1?
That’s my bike
Push acs kit vs rc 2 damper or air spring upgrade for my yari?
Yep!
www.fanatikbike.com/products/push-industries-acs3-coil-conversion-kit-rock-shox-lyrik-yari-27-5-29-2016-2020
@@FanatikBikeCo I ment to ask or*
@@aaronburela432 Ah, sorry, I misread the comment. The damper won't make a massive difference. Remember, the damper just adds control to the spring, which is the part that is doing all the work. The spring will be a more noticeable improvement.
@@FanatikBikeCo thanks! That's what I'm thinking gonna be ultra plush
What are the cons of this coil upgrade?
With any coil its gong to be heavier than air sprung suspension. Weight is really the only downside
@@FanatikBikeCo Thanks so much!
will there be one for the new fox 38
There will not, no. - Dan at Fanatik
No oil then in fork ?
Good question, there's only a small amount in the spring side to lubricate the bushings. Cheers - Dan at Fanatik
Can you do this on a 2020 yari rc?
Ya
I'll take the Vorsprung Smashpot over the Push.... Adjustable HBO and cheaper.
And you can extend a fox 36 29 fork upto 170mm. It was unreal at the bike park this year
That does look like a slick set-up, I have not tried it. The only counter-point I'd offer is that the ACS3 kit does allow you to control bottom out via the air piston.
Thanks for watching!
Dan at Fanatik
Ah, and actually the ACS3 kit is cheaper. Although the price of the Smashpot is cooler.
@@FanatikBikeCo Vorsprung offers adjustable control in the bottom out without a shock pump. Just have to turn a knob. Also easy to adjust different suspension lengths on your fork. Don't think you can do that on a Push.
@@FanatikBikeCo The smashpot has a controllable hydrolic anti bottom out. I am the proud owner of a Push 11 6 on the rear. I just wanted to increase the travel on the front from 160mm to 170mm. Coil has massively helped with arm pump as well. I love it.
If you bought a good fork like a fox factory 38 you wouldn't need to buy that sh!t
i challenge anyone to try one and go back to air .......
I'm running this on my bike now, and I think I'd have to agree!
Cheers,
Dan at Fanatik
Fanatik Bike Co. great ain't it pal
Me ajudem ai quero chega a 1k pra ter uma dessa meu sonho
They ruin a forks resell so beware!
ACS3 - www.pushindustries.com/products/acs3-fork-coil-conversion-kit