I'd love a receiver with preouts that wasn't crazy high priced...but they usually are and then I'd rather just get a processor...and let's be honest, the vast majority of home customers don't even need a 11 channel device...I'd be happy with a 7.2 channel with Atmos config.
Previous owner of a Denon 6700H. Great AVR, but I wanted XLR connections. Sold my Denon and purchased Emotiva’s RMC-1L. In my honest opinion, a processor sounds cleaner and tighter. I feel like I gained a little db as well. Processor runs cooler to include my separate amps. If you have a bigger budget, I recommend going with separates.
I was literally watching some older videos on this exact subject when I receiver a notification of this one. Thanks so much for all your hard work for the community! 👍
I brought my SR8015 earlier this year. It has my speakers “singing” with music and movies. Never short on dynamics and transients from any speakers. Will a processor be better, yes. Appreciably, I don’t think so for the cost. Next upgrade cycle I’m going to go amp and proc. for that last bit but not now. I may go amp for base later eventually first. But even now my system gets more than loud enough. Hobby is mental.
My reciever is a budget model Pioneer and I love how is sound but doesnt have a preout , is only have 80 watts per channel so I bought 4 CAS44/CAA66/CAM6.6 Adapter (Front/Surround/Center/Height/-Speakers) Adapter in Amazon and I was able to hook it up with a 5 channel amplifier and the sound is more amazing . I highly recommend this adapter if you want to keep your loving current receiver
My Marantz has pre outs. I was thinking about going with a processor to replace the Marantz looking at the prices I decided to add a Emotiva Bas X 3 channel power amp. I am glad I did save me alot of bucks. Plus a nice sound stage. I am sure you have cover this in some of you videos. Going with a power amp connected to you A/V takes some of the stain of the A/V processor. I believe you did a review of the Bas X series that Emotiva has. The way the market is. This is worth a nice upgrade to help out A/V receivers.
Nice video. I think generally you’re right, but it depends on the brand. Arcam for example has the AVR31 receiver at $6,900 which is their flagship product. The amps in that AVR include class G amplification. Their processor AV41 is $5,250 which to my understanding includes the same ESS Saber DAC as the AVR31. Don’t know if there would be significant sound quality improvement with the AV41 processor + PA720 7 channel amp over the AVR31.
Using the Denon flagship AVR-A1H, when I bought it didn't knew about the AV Processor. All I could think was to invest in a equipment for the last 5-8 years.
I have had the AV- Receivers with the preamp outputs and used a three channel power for the left- Center and the right speaker. The AV - Receiver benefited from the three channel power amp. Then I used the Receiver for the remaining channels. I started using the Preamp processors with more channel power amps. In my opinion the processor with separate amps are more versatile. AV - Receivers wattage that I dealt with the power ratings are not the wattage rms power as rated.
Yes you are spot on. To do separates prossessor is the best way to go and expensive too. But from av receiver to the next level you have to pay a price and for the ultimate. Me now upgrading from marantz sr 5011 to marantz prossessor 7706 but though I have a big space and a dedicated theater I would still be going with my 5. 2 . 2 configuration. Its gonna be expensive as I need a 5 channel amplifier too but think worth the upgrade. Last but never the least av receivers heat up as so much is stuffed inside a single chassis and if u dont have proper cooling ways may not last long. No such issues with the prossessor.
I’m currently using a Denon 4700H with a Monolith 11 channel Amplifier. My fronts, surrounds and surrounds backs are in full range for my 7.2.4 Klipsch Speakers
Denon and Marantz offer well priced AVRs that also have pre-outs and depending on model they can turn off internal amps when set to full pre-out. Denon and Marantz measure well and are built like tanks. My 7 year old Denon X7200 still holds its own and I recently started my journey to separates by adding a Monolith 9X and now run the Denon in full pre-amp mode. Over the next year I will replace the Denon with a true processor.
Wow thank you for explaining this I had no idea, now this allows me to make better decisions in what to get next from my 7.2 ch AVR I want to go pre pro now
@@Kpaceguy I want to learn more about how to set something like this up to make it all work like what equipment id need any recommendations? Entry level equipment to make this work for say 13 channels?
I think for beginners avr’s are totally and perfectly fine , but if you want the best of the best All I can say is once you go to pre-pro You never wanna hear a avr again , proud owner of marantz av 8805 + 2 marantz mm8077 power amps all connected using XLR‘s even my svs pb4000 subwoofers
@P T I feel like when you're spending 2k or more whether it's a receiver or not, the quality is going to be there regardless. So it's not something I think about, I expect it already.
I went with the flexibility of an AVR with pre outs, what is awesome about the Denon x7200WA is assignable amplification! I use the outlaw 7000x to power my floor level channels and use the AVR to power my Atmos channels and speakers for additional zones. Today most AVRs removed this option, it either one or the other. One advantage that you missed is most amps run waaaaay cooler than an AVR.
Great topic. Currently I have an AVR with an amplifier powering all speakers. I trust your opinion that Processors offer better sound quality (but is it that much noticeable?). I would like to eventually get an Arcam processor with Dirac but it’s pricey. Now, should I consider changing amplifiers as well? Will this make any difference in sound quality? Thanks for this relevant video.
You don't need to change your amps unless you change your speakers and those speakers demand something your amplifier can't give. The difference between a pre Pro and a receiver being noticeable depends on which receiver you're coming from and what pre pro you choose.
Well im sure your going to think its maybe overkill for a 3.1 set up to get a av processor with a power amplifier. But i have a 3.1 setup with a av receiver and a power amplifier and the receiver gets hot to the touch after use turning the tv off at night. I heard processors are better less to no heat factors But i still want to get a processor for long gevity and upgrade purposes Keep bringing the knowledge on techon your channel
I have denon x3700H as my main receiver with a 5 channel amp for bed layer, heights powered by AVR. I think whenever it dies (hopefully no time soon), i will move to a pre processor and second amp. Thats the good thing with separates i guess, you can take your time with the upgrades.
@P T great write up. Thats also why i think im going to move to a pre pro when i finally do upgrade- for better channel separation. i dont claim to be an audophile, so i dont need the best pre pro. But i think the cost of slowly upgrading separates after youve already got a system is worth the incremental cost for the benefit. By the way, not sure if you meant to reply to me or the board. Your post kinda seems to stand on its own...
Get the best amp you can get...high-end. You will not regret 10 years. I regret to buy cheap one so eventually cost me much more. If you would like to separate your system. Amp will not be changed once you have a high-end. 10 years or more. + 10 years happiness of ears + 10 years happiness of your wallet replacing grief of your wallet just one time.
Processors allow the option of balanced connections, which can help with noise (especially for longer cable runs), and also allow for a bit more power. Amps are inherently noisy, so it’s usually a good thing to separate them from the processor. I’ve had a receiver and used the preouts to connect to amps and couldn’t tell the difference, but I still believe a separate processor might provide an upgrade to sound quality in terms of a lower noise floor and greater separation. Youthman and a friend both noticed a difference in greater separation while testing this.
Your assumptions are reasonable, but don't fall into the balanced trap. There's more misinformation on the topic, than good information. There's more than one way a component can be balanced, and there's more than one way to design the circuit for each one. Just having xlr jacks labeled balanced isn't good enough. (I know that sound ridiculous, but its true). The only way you're going to hear any real differences in sound quality is if both pieces of gear employ fully differential balanced circuitry, and connect them both with a balanced cable. If you are not sure what you have, look at the specs for each component. A balanced component will have 2 sets of specs. One for balanced operation, and one for single ended operation. You'll also notice in the balanced specs, the output will be 6db higher. (When you balance a signal, you end up with an increase in output.). So, when you AB back and forth, and the balanced connection isn't louder, 99.9% chance the balanced connection isn't balanced. You still get sound because 2 of the 3 pins on the balanced cable are used. Its just not balanced. its identical to using rca cables.
Another thing to note is balanced rejects interference more, twisted cables even further. I have my preprocessor next to my computer and wifi/bluetooth and the balanced actually makes a big difference surprisingly.
I think the biggest issue with the primary issue between the two is power and space trying to squeeze both amplification and processing with the increased number of channels that is now possible and the size of chassis remaining relatively the same size. So it wouldn't think a manufacturer is ready to put their best electronics intto a receiver that has only 5 channels because you have the space to do so dont think they could sell it. This i believe is the reasoning behind yahama not passing a certain amount of channels on their receivers but dont quoite me that its just my reasoning. However they are situations where only some channels are amplified and some are not in order to pack as much goodness into one chassis i have seen this with some brands. I do believe. However that flagship receivers will get you close as possible to a pre pro to may be points where you may not even be able to hear a difference. when checking the specifications there is little differences but your still limited by power and will still need external amplification if you decided to spend so much money in the first place for a flagship, I think it speaks somewhat to your needs if you did spend the cash. Lastly but more importantly is longevity, buying a flagship and spending so much money would in my opinion make more sense in holding on put some cash on it and spending on a prepro due to upgrades as you mentioned in your video will give you a longer life and thus time with your well spent investment. That's just my little 2cents
I've been slowly upgrading my system as budget permits and (although it may not be the most responsible thing to do at the moment) am going to order an amp, a Tonewinner AD-8300PA, this weekend from Summit HiFi to go with my Denon X4700H AVR and use all the pre-outs in the unit to make it into a pseudo processor for my 7.2.2 system. Summit is offering no tax and free shipping, so in effect, it's on sale. The 8 lower-powered modules will be about the same, power-wise as my AVR, but the LCR will be about double the wattage. Between eliminating interference from the power section of the Denon and the extra oomph from the amp, I expect to hear a bit of improvement in, if nothing else, soundstage and the center channel. Not quite sure about the L/R because they're currently bi-amped and I don't think I can do it hooked up to an amp that way. At least I will have an 11-channel amp that I should be able to use for a long time while I upgrade to better speakers or a pure processor.
I’ve been wondering since I have been following your channel, being in an apartment, have you not ran into any power problems with so much equipment on the same circuit? If not, how do you work around it?
The only issue I have which really isn't much of one is if I have the system on at any volume level, low or moderate, if I turn on the fan or ceiling fan light it stops the hdmi signal from anthem to my projector for about 5 seconds then turns on. Before I had a power conditioner it also used to trip the protection breaker in my monolith amplifier
@@Kpaceguy interesting, do you know how many amps the circuit you have all your equipment on is? I’m just curious because I follow a lot of home theater guys and I know not everyone has a couple dedicated circuits for their stuff lol I own my home but it’s not my forever home so I don’t feel like getting some new circuits installed until I move on to a different house in the future
@P T interesting, I have far less on my circuit but I do listen at like -8db too but I have a large living room, shit by Watts law calculations I shouldn’t even have on it what I do now lol
I use marantz with preouts..Niles amp it's a condo and it works good but EARC is a mess going to a TCL 646 75 inch..it's awesome when it works but I have to unplug almost daily and then it sounds good again ..I think that's the issue with most home theaters...I also have a c1 and Samsung q80r all similar issues
I would have loved to have gone for separates but I just haven't got the space! My cabinet has just enough room to accommodate my arcam avr20 plus 2 × 4 ch arcam power amps. The sound that comes out of my sonus Faber speakers is phenomenal, so much so whenever I decide to stick music on, I know automatically is going to be music for the rest of the evening, it just sounds that good! The thought of me putting a movie on after experiencing some music, to me.. is just a vivid dream and I can assure you, movie watching with a 5.2.4 setup with shielded cables within a treated room is not just a blast but it can also be a silent blast!
Well ASR says that Marantz Pre Processors actually are more noisy than the Denon AVR counterparts. Same company, but not any better sound. I think Denon needs to have a high end range again with Preprocessors
I am in the middle of my end goal path. Currently I have Marantz SR6012 with all external amplification. I was considering upgrading to a 7706 Processor but was waiting. Was a little disappointed with the recent Marantz news. The new AV10 looks awesome but currently out of my budget. I was hoping for a fewer channel processor but still have multiple mono DACs and Dirac for less. Even if I could afford the AV10 I would end up paying for 4 channels and those mono DACs I couldn't use in my setup. Emotiva RMC-1L fits the bill for me having what I want on paper, but reading of constant bugs and the feeling the customer is the beta tester scares me away. Anthem and Arcam are missing DSD decoding. Everything else is a whole price tier level up.
I bought my receiver 2 years ago. A Marantz sr7013. My sub blew for no reason (nothing was even on) so I’ve decided to upgrade to a slightly bigger system. I have to get an amp because the new system is in 4 ohms and my receiver is 8 ohms. Real bummer
@@Kpaceguy--- What about AVR with amplifier? Also, since no benefit to using both AVR and Pre/Pro, is my choice between low price/low quality components/quick obsolescence (AVR) and high price/high quality components/upgradability (Pre/Pro)?
@antiWhiteism777 Avr with amp is definitely a benefit especially if you need more channels. And that's just how technology is, things become old tech very fast so choose a high-end enough component so that it'll do what you need for the longest amount of time. If it want to pair an avr with an amplifier then you automatically stick yourself into pretty decent components
Do they have processor with XLR cables only or do they have a processor with speaker wire Capability this will also determine if somebody will get AV Receiver or processor Depending on the output of their speakers
@@Kpaceguy yes I know they don't change the sound so what I'm asking is are they good will they hurt a reciever if a reciever wasn't built with pre outs are you putting a hurt on the non preout reciever by doing that? Thanks Kpaceguy...
I have a Denon AVR X5200w and I know that you are correct that all AVR systems are not able to process because I have a Integra DR 60.6 it is a great unit but it is limited to front height only and is not able to process the height and the wides but will process the wides with a outboard amp and it will be okay but it will not be able to drive large amplifiers over 200 WPC before it clips , but the Denon is a much better AVR because it will give you 4 volts rms per preout which is what a processor system should do. The Denon is a full processor and if you look on the website you will not find a processor on the site because they do not need to sale them because some AVR that’s able to do this is the X series and they have the ability to resource the internal amplifier to do other things and they are a true 13.2 processor. But they are able to process external amplifier’s processing 400 WPC X 13 and I wasn’t convinced they would do what they said they are able to do until I did the research and was blown away so I bought it. They’re about to release a new AVH that will process 4 subwoofer channel’s independent with Audyssey and DIRAC and will work together . This I want to see . I must say that I was never going to buy a Denon because I was convinced that it was snake oil boy was I wrong.!!!!!!!!
you said "I have a Denon AVR X5200w and I know that you are correct that all AVR systems are not able to process " what you talking bout man? All AVRs are able to process..... what do you think they are doing when decoding dolby/ dts/ codecs? The only difference is that a pre/pro as most people like to call it is strictly dedicated to processing without the internal amps
@@demonreturns4336 I was speaking in about pre outs and being able to process up to 13 channels for front stage and the use of wides and 4 Atmos speakers. I just said it wrong and it will allow me to use external amplifier’s for all 13 channels when some AVR don’t have that ability to process in this way.
I have a Denon AV receiver with Dolby Atmos 8K 60 Hz and 4K 120 Hz HDMI input and output 9.2.2. I think that's the format. Two front, one center, two side? Two rear surround, two surround back, two hight channels for Dolby Atmos and two subs. I think I paid almost $900.00 for my receiver and I know Denon has better receivers or should I say more upgraded receivers than what I got but I love my receiver and the sound quality is far superior to what is out there. Once I've gone Denon there is no going back. Far better than sony which I use to have.
@@josephbragg1162 yeah thought so 🤔 One shouldn't compare brands not unless price levels are similar. It could give one the wrong impression! An old budget AVR going up against a mid-priced modern AVR is just not fair game. I say this of course because I've actually had the opposite listening experience to what had! Even though my £2,000 Denon (6500) AVR absolutely smashed my budget £400 Sony STR dn1080 AVR at multi-channel (movies), when it came to 2-channel audio (music) the budget Sony IMO sounded more neutral compared to the more expensive Digital sounding Denon. (Hence the reason why I changed it for a analogue sounding receiver) Thanks for the reply 👍
@@Antibackgroundnoise That's totally true. My Sony was good at stereo sound over the Denon but I'm always watching movies in 4K Dolby Atmos or DTS-EX or some sound similar so I totally appreciate the clean sound on the Denon. Super sharp and clear sounding effects. The duel subs are also a plus when adjusted and positioned correctly.
You may still have better channel separation and a much lower noise floor especially with XLR outputs but the difference may not at all be worth the price
The quality difference between prepros and receivers has almost disappeared today. For example, Marantz AV7706 prepro uses the same DAC (AKM AK4458VN) and same calibration software (Audyssey MultEQ XT32) as Denon X4700H. The latter can even operate as a prepro and objectively measures "cleaner" than the former in SINAD tests. Another example is Audio Control Maestro X7 prepro and Concert XR-8 receiver (both support 9.1.6). They both incorporate ES9026PRO SABRE DAC and full Dirac Live calibration software. Therefore, in most cases the differences is not about quality of sound in either category but the choice for internal amps. If your speakers have low sensitivity, chances are you'll be better served by a prepro and an external amp. But if your speakers have good sensitivity and reasonable impedance, a receiver is no brainer. But some audio purists still believe that prepros are better, even when they aren't.
Depends on manufacturer and how they designed AVR. Denon/Marantz pre pro usually is noticeably better because they pack enormous amount of amps inside and it’s not that well designed/built - because aim is to make them affordable. More expensive they get the better built they are and difference disappears. Arcam for instance there was no difference between pre pro and AVR. But you pay a lot extra for xlr ports.
@@whitecrowuk575 Denon doesn't have any standalone processor, they're all receivers with the ability to turn off amps for mid-range to high-end categories. The amps aren't necessarily "poorly" designed, they are just not as powerful as standalone amps due to power requirements. Denon receivers actually tend to perform better than Marantz processors at each respective price point. But people usually have expectation biases that make them hear differences that aren't necessarily there in sighted tests. The generalized view that processors are sonically better that AVRs needs to end because it is no longer the case for a significant percentage of products out there.
@@AT-wl9yq I can back up my claims with data. Can you please point out a single information I have shared that is incorrect? And please do your research before commenting.
@@DesmondKarani meant channel separation is better in Marantz pre pro. Generally speaking Denon AVR measure better than Marantz AVRs indeed but like you say there are people who prefer how the latter sounds. Top AVRs have same channel separation as pre pro from same lineup and it makes hard to justify the increased cost of the latter except for when you need XLR outputs. Some brands (usually very top ones) don’t do AVRs just pre pros on the other hand). All in all generally false economy - getting less for more money.
3 years ago a made a video called av receiver vs separates. This is similar but more specifically targeted towards av receivers with separates vs fully going separate
I’m going with the AVR with pre-outs. Denon has a new line of AVR’s coming out, and I have my eye on the Denon X3800h, 9 channel with 11 channel processing, 4 independent sub outputs, also Atmos, DTS:X, IMAX Enhanced, Auro 3D, with Dirac upgrade!! Marantz also has a new line coming as well!
"A stand alone processor ..well you're going to have to power all the channels😕!? (Out!) ..er..yeah!😶? You can leave the surround back's on the A.V.receiver and power out the rest .. We went down the A.V.R. Root because the connection are there huge up grade on a very small budget💷.. The only real up grade to do is a budget 8k projector ... Hopefully from Optoma or benq (dlp-chip) a must😇 " that's where we are at!✌peace! d🤕🇪🇺🗺
All home theater gear is diminished returns. The hobby is a money pit that eventually leads to nonsatisfaction due to exhaustion. But we still take the journey because it seems like it's nothing better else to do.
@@Kpaceguy My point IS, the gear we buy ultimately leads to non satisfaction because we keep evolving are equipment. AKA, upgrading. If you're ultimately satisfied, you wouldn't have the emotions to upgrade your equipment. Are you telling me my points I conveyed isn't True? These things we buy will do nothing for us when calamity hits. Again, and I digress. This is what we do in life because we feel there's nothing else to do. Taught behavior is learned behavior.
@@taseti4803 no you're correct. I Wouldn't say people upgrade because of dissatisfaction necessarily. Sometimes you're forced to because one piece of equipment is newer than the rest and now there are handshake issues or maybe there's a new cutting edge technology like dolby vision for example and the only way to have it is to upgrade. Not because your equipment no longer satisfies you but because there's something that will satisfy you more.
@@Kpaceguy It all leads to exhaustion. Don't get me wrong. I'm not being a debbie downer. I've upgraded my hear multiple times as well. I just recently upgraded my system and I couldn't help to start thinking about where I'm going to go from here, where I'm at. I think you've tallied all the money you spent on all the gear you've purchased along the way till now. That number includes the remotes and cables too. I'm pretty sure that number is a price you never intended to spend when you started out. Now what's scary about that, is you probably cant see an end in sight with more money to be spent. This is an expensive hobby to type the least. I enjoy your content. You found your niche a long time ago in between all other content creators on TH-cam in this specific community.
Won't really hear any difference between an AVR and prepro if your speakers aren't super fussy with amp power in the first place. Plus, I'm not really concerned with the latest and greatest updates especially since 8k content barely even exists yet.
@@Kpaceguy given the same brand, as products keep evolving in quality, the parts they use pretty much trickle down their lines so the massive step up in prices don’t necessarily replicate the same quality difference, maybe like a +-5% difference in sound.
What's with the getto words, dude? You need to practice bofore you go live or record online because when engineers watch your channel all they hear is mumbo jumbo mumbo jumbo amps mumbo jumbo and then you say things like "worser" that's terrible, just use "worse" instead, and there was a bunch of other stuff like it. Electrical and electronics engineering requires that the presenter understand sophisticated concepts of technology and there is some abstract thinking involved as well as difficult concepts which you should be able to present with some authority and yet you don't, certainly not with the sort of intelligence and coherence required to make you believable, but more importantly you must play the role show you authority in the matter subject and start by utilizing the proper vocabulary preferably the vocabulary used by the industry. I can assure you that untrue nonsense will not fly no matter how hard you try to pretend and that's becuase there is no place for being inauthentic in science, it sends the wrong message. I'm assuming you're an engineer of sorts otherwise you need to up your game dude or try to read a book on the subject from time to time certainly before you go live or online. I mean you're not wrong about your comparisons and preferences' and in fact like you said the preprocessor is in fact high end gear, expensive gear, a powerful unit no question about it comes with the advantage of being constantly upgraded which makes the codecs and management system far superior than the any AV receiver in the market, I totally agree with your position, but I'm a little worried that you come across as someone with poor knowlege about the subject. There are some good books out there I'm sure you can find one. Please don't be offended but use this comment and comments like it positively. Good luck.
@@demonreturns4336 You're absolutely right, I certainly wrote about some dumb shit on the Internet and thanks for establishing it and confirming it. I feel so much better now.
@@carlosh8113 Hey busy bee! Congrats you won the spelling bee. I'm sorry, I'm all out of stickers. You're very skillful, what insight? How did you do it? Your ability to spot mispelled words means that you are headed for greatness. I bet you couldn't sleep all night knowing that you had spotted a spelling mistake and the world is a better place because of you. You go girl!
I think a great way to utilize an older receiver is to use its 5.1/7.1 channel inputs (if it has them) to drive some surround channels and go out and buy a new processor and a new 3 (or 5,7) channel amp to power the front stage. This way you can still use the amps in the older receiver and save a little money. I'm looking at a new 13 channel processor and can use my receiver's built in 7 amps.
@P T Ultra high end receivers like the ARCAM AVR5 are out of reach for a lot of people (like me). For instance the AVR10 is listed at $3800.00 in Canada (I could not find a price for the AVR5). Believe me I would love to own one especially since it has the ESS Sabre DAC chip but probably not going to happen. Finding a good quality receiver that can process 11 channels for under $2500 Cdn is tough. I would have to look at the Anthem 740 ($3400). The Anthem 540 only processes 7 channels. The Pioneer 505 at $2100 is an option but not knocking Pioneer, (they make great products), I would rather stay away from mainstream mass market receivers. So I've decided on getting the Emotiva MC-1 that processes 13 channels and buying the Emotiva 7 channel amp. My NAD receiver can power the 6 atmos speakers that as you say don't need a lot of dynamic range just jigga-watts to drive them. This way at least all the base speakers will have the same tonal balance and the atmos speakers will as a group also. Hopefully the sonic differences between the two will be negligible. Maybe one day I'll "get off my wallet " like a friend of mine always says but it's like a brass ring that I'm always trying to reach but never do. Appreciate the comment.
@P T Well maybe if I can hunt one down it will definitely be an option. ARCAM was actually my first choice but I thought they were out of reach thanks.
@@todd69erit is not, as that rms is already cut down from 2 ch. listening. As your playing your avr (60watts) it will dip at the high point of either a song or movie (dolby/dts). I have literally heard and seen benchmark results in said scenario(s) where rms dips to 22 watts rms. No different than trying to push a weaker video card into flagship GPU frame rate etc tier!
I'd love a receiver with preouts that wasn't crazy high priced...but they usually are and then I'd rather just get a processor...and let's be honest, the vast majority of home customers don't even need a 11 channel device...I'd be happy with a 7.2 channel with Atmos config.
Previous owner of a Denon 6700H. Great AVR, but I wanted XLR connections. Sold my Denon and purchased Emotiva’s RMC-1L. In my honest opinion, a processor sounds cleaner and tighter. I feel like I gained a little db as well. Processor runs cooler to include my separate amps. If you have a bigger budget, I recommend going with separates.
I was literally watching some older videos on this exact subject when I receiver a notification of this one. Thanks so much for all your hard work for the community! 👍
Thanks for watching!
I brought my SR8015 earlier this year. It has my speakers “singing” with music and movies. Never short on dynamics and transients from any speakers. Will a processor be better, yes. Appreciably, I don’t think so for the cost. Next upgrade cycle I’m going to go amp and proc. for that last bit but not now. I may go amp for base later eventually first. But even now my system gets more than loud enough. Hobby is mental.
My reciever is a budget model Pioneer and I love how is sound but doesnt have a preout , is only have 80 watts per channel so I bought 4 CAS44/CAA66/CAM6.6 Adapter (Front/Surround/Center/Height/-Speakers) Adapter in Amazon and I was able to hook it up with a 5 channel amplifier and the sound is more amazing . I highly recommend this adapter if you want to keep your loving current receiver
Can you give more info on the adapter?
@@Spad3193 sure check out this link th-cam.com/video/0OzPOIPp_ZE/w-d-xo.html
My Marantz has pre outs. I was thinking about going with a processor to replace the Marantz looking at the prices I decided to add a Emotiva Bas X 3 channel power amp. I am glad I did save me alot of bucks. Plus a nice sound stage. I am sure you have cover this in some of you videos. Going with a power amp connected to you A/V takes some of the stain of the A/V processor. I believe you did a review of the Bas X series that Emotiva has. The way the market is. This is worth a nice upgrade to help out A/V receivers.
Nice video. I think generally you’re right, but it depends on the brand. Arcam for example has the AVR31 receiver at $6,900 which is their flagship product. The amps in that AVR include class G amplification. Their processor AV41 is $5,250 which to my understanding includes the same ESS Saber DAC as the AVR31. Don’t know if there would be significant sound quality improvement with the AV41 processor + PA720 7 channel amp over the AVR31.
Using the Denon flagship AVR-A1H, when I bought it didn't knew about the AV Processor. All I could think was to invest in a equipment for the last 5-8 years.
I have had the AV- Receivers with the preamp outputs and used a three channel power for the left- Center and the right speaker. The AV - Receiver benefited from the three channel power amp. Then I used the Receiver for the remaining channels. I started using the Preamp processors with more channel power amps. In my opinion the processor with separate amps are more versatile. AV - Receivers wattage that I dealt with the power ratings are not the wattage rms power as rated.
Yes you are spot on. To do separates prossessor is the best way to go and expensive too. But from av receiver to the next level you have to pay a price and for the ultimate. Me now upgrading from marantz sr 5011 to marantz prossessor 7706 but though I have a big space and a dedicated theater I would still be going with my 5. 2 . 2 configuration. Its gonna be expensive as I need a 5 channel amplifier too but think worth the upgrade. Last but never the least av receivers heat up as so much is stuffed inside a single chassis and if u dont have proper cooling ways may not last long. No such issues with the prossessor.
I’m currently using a Denon 4700H with a Monolith 11 channel Amplifier. My fronts, surrounds and surrounds backs are in full range for my 7.2.4 Klipsch Speakers
Denon and Marantz offer well priced AVRs that also have pre-outs and depending on model they can turn off internal amps when set to full pre-out. Denon and Marantz measure well and are built like tanks. My 7 year old Denon X7200 still holds its own and I recently started my journey to separates by adding a Monolith 9X and now run the Denon in full pre-amp mode. Over the next year I will replace the Denon with a true processor.
Wow thank you for explaining this I had no idea, now this allows me to make better decisions in what to get next from my 7.2 ch AVR I want to go pre pro now
No problem
@@Kpaceguy I want to learn more about how to set something like this up to make it all work like what equipment id need any recommendations? Entry level equipment to make this work for say 13 channels?
@@RahzAlGhul you need an external/power amplifier that had 13 channels
I think for beginners avr’s are totally and perfectly fine , but if you want the best of the best All I can say is once you go to pre-pro You never wanna hear a avr again , proud owner of marantz av 8805 + 2 marantz mm8077 power amps all connected using XLR‘s even my svs pb4000 subwoofers
Yes I'll never own a receiver ever again
@P T I honestly don't get a pre processor for any of those reasons. I simply want more power!
@P T I feel like when you're spending 2k or more whether it's a receiver or not, the quality is going to be there regardless. So it's not something I think about, I expect it already.
I went with the flexibility of an AVR with pre outs, what is awesome about the Denon x7200WA is assignable amplification! I use the outlaw 7000x to power my floor level channels and use the AVR to power my Atmos channels and speakers for additional zones. Today most AVRs removed this option, it either one or the other. One advantage that you missed is most amps run waaaaay cooler than an AVR.
Completely false. My Yamaha AVR will run much hotter than my Emotiva 7 ch amp even with the AVR only supplying pre out signal to the amp.
@@Newfiestang50 reading is fundamental my friend, that is exactly what I said.
Great topic. Currently I have an AVR with an amplifier powering all speakers. I trust your opinion that Processors offer better sound quality (but is it that much noticeable?). I would like to eventually get an Arcam processor with Dirac but it’s pricey. Now, should I consider changing amplifiers as well? Will this make any difference in sound quality? Thanks for this relevant video.
You don't need to change your amps unless you change your speakers and those speakers demand something your amplifier can't give. The difference between a pre Pro and a receiver being noticeable depends on which receiver you're coming from and what pre pro you choose.
Well im sure your going to think its maybe overkill for a 3.1 set up to get a av processor with a power amplifier. But i have a 3.1 setup with a av receiver and a power amplifier and the receiver gets hot to the touch after use turning the tv off at night. I heard processors are better less to no heat factors
But i still want to get a processor for long gevity and upgrade purposes
Keep bringing the knowledge on techon your channel
I appreciate it
I have denon x3700H as my main receiver with a 5 channel amp for bed layer, heights powered by AVR. I think whenever it dies (hopefully no time soon), i will move to a pre processor and second amp. Thats the good thing with separates i guess, you can take your time with the upgrades.
@P T great write up. Thats also why i think im going to move to a pre pro when i finally do upgrade- for better channel separation. i dont claim to be an audophile, so i dont need the best pre pro. But i think the cost of slowly upgrading separates after youve already got a system is worth the incremental cost for the benefit.
By the way, not sure if you meant to reply to me or the board. Your post kinda seems to stand on its own...
Get the best amp you can get...high-end. You will not regret 10 years. I regret to buy cheap one so eventually cost me much more. If you would like to separate your system. Amp will not be changed once you have a high-end. 10 years or more. + 10 years happiness of ears + 10 years happiness of your wallet replacing grief of your wallet just one time.
Processors allow the option of balanced connections, which can help with noise (especially for longer cable runs), and also allow for a bit more power.
Amps are inherently noisy, so it’s usually a good thing to separate them from the processor.
I’ve had a receiver and used the preouts to connect to amps and couldn’t tell the difference, but I still believe a separate processor might provide an upgrade to sound quality in terms of a lower noise floor and greater separation. Youthman and a friend both noticed a difference in greater separation while testing this.
Your assumptions are reasonable, but don't fall into the balanced trap. There's more misinformation on the topic, than good information. There's more than one way a component can be balanced, and there's more than one way to design the circuit for each one. Just having xlr jacks labeled balanced isn't good enough. (I know that sound ridiculous, but its true). The only way you're going to hear any real differences in sound quality is if both pieces of gear employ fully differential balanced circuitry, and connect them both with a balanced cable.
If you are not sure what you have, look at the specs for each component. A balanced component will have 2 sets of specs. One for balanced operation, and one for single ended operation. You'll also notice in the balanced specs, the output will be 6db higher. (When you balance a signal, you end up with an increase in output.). So, when you AB back and forth, and the balanced connection isn't louder, 99.9% chance the balanced connection isn't balanced. You still get sound because 2 of the 3 pins on the balanced cable are used. Its just not balanced. its identical to using rca cables.
Another thing to note is balanced rejects interference more, twisted cables even further. I have my preprocessor next to my computer and wifi/bluetooth and the balanced actually makes a big difference surprisingly.
@@Edinsism If it really is balanced. Most of the time people think they have balanced gear and its not. Its a very misunderstood topic.
New line coming out of Marantz and Denon AV Receivers have Dirac Calibration, that's a Real Game Changer
Hopefully I'll review one when they come out so we can play around with Dirac
I think the biggest issue with the primary issue between the two is power and space trying to squeeze both amplification and processing with the increased number of channels that is now possible and the size of chassis remaining relatively the same size. So it wouldn't think a manufacturer is ready to put their best electronics intto a receiver that has only 5 channels because you have the space to do so dont think they could sell it. This i believe is the reasoning behind yahama not passing a certain amount of channels on their receivers but dont quoite me that its just my reasoning. However they are situations where only some channels are amplified and some are not in order to pack as much goodness into one chassis i have seen this with some brands. I do believe. However that flagship receivers will get you close as possible to a pre pro to may be points where you may not even be able to hear a difference. when checking the specifications there is little differences but your still limited by power and will still need external amplification if you decided to spend so much money in the first place for a flagship, I think it speaks somewhat to your needs if you did spend the cash. Lastly but more importantly is longevity, buying a flagship and spending so much money would in my opinion make more sense in holding on put some cash on it and spending on a prepro due to upgrades as you mentioned in your video will give you a longer life and thus time with your well spent investment. That's just my little 2cents
Im using an AV Receiver in pre amp mode with external amplification.
Which avr/amps?
I run a Yamaha RXA-4A
With 2 audiolab8300mb’s.
I've been slowly upgrading my system as budget permits and (although it may not be the most responsible thing to do at the moment) am going to order an amp, a Tonewinner AD-8300PA, this weekend from Summit HiFi to go with my Denon X4700H AVR and use all the pre-outs in the unit to make it into a pseudo processor for my 7.2.2 system. Summit is offering no tax and free shipping, so in effect, it's on sale. The 8 lower-powered modules will be about the same, power-wise as my AVR, but the LCR will be about double the wattage. Between eliminating interference from the power section of the Denon and the extra oomph from the amp, I expect to hear a bit of improvement in, if nothing else, soundstage and the center channel. Not quite sure about the L/R because they're currently bi-amped and I don't think I can do it hooked up to an amp that way. At least I will have an 11-channel amp that I should be able to use for a long time while I upgrade to better speakers or a pure processor.
Great explanation! I appreciate it a lot. Thanks
I’ve been wondering since I have been following your channel, being in an apartment, have you not ran into any power problems with so much equipment on the same circuit? If not, how do you work around it?
The only issue I have which really isn't much of one is if I have the system on at any volume level, low or moderate, if I turn on the fan or ceiling fan light it stops the hdmi signal from anthem to my projector for about 5 seconds then turns on. Before I had a power conditioner it also used to trip the protection breaker in my monolith amplifier
@@Kpaceguy interesting, do you know how many amps the circuit you have all your equipment on is? I’m just curious because I follow a lot of home theater guys and I know not everyone has a couple dedicated circuits for their stuff lol I own my home but it’s not my forever home so I don’t feel like getting some new circuits installed until I move on to a different house in the future
@P T interesting, thanks for the input so I can have frame of reference, always good to have comparison
@P T interesting, I have far less on my circuit but I do listen at like -8db too but I have a large living room, shit by Watts law calculations I shouldn’t even have on it what I do now lol
I use marantz with preouts..Niles amp it's a condo and it works good but EARC is a mess going to a TCL 646 75 inch..it's awesome when it works but I have to unplug almost daily and then it sounds good again ..I think that's the issue with most home theaters...I also have a c1 and Samsung q80r all similar issues
I would have loved to have gone for separates but I just haven't got the space! My cabinet has just enough room to accommodate my arcam avr20 plus 2 × 4 ch arcam power amps.
The sound that comes out of my sonus Faber speakers is phenomenal, so much so whenever I decide to stick music on, I know automatically is going to be music for the rest of the evening, it just sounds that good! The thought of me putting a movie on after experiencing some music, to me.. is just a vivid dream and I can assure you, movie watching with a 5.2.4 setup with shielded cables within a treated room is not just a blast but it can also be a silent blast!
@P T correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression arcam AVRs use toroid amplifiers.
Well ASR says that Marantz Pre Processors actually are more noisy than the Denon AVR counterparts. Same company, but not any better sound. I think Denon needs to have a high end range again with Preprocessors
I am in the middle of my end goal path. Currently I have Marantz SR6012 with all external amplification. I was considering upgrading to a 7706 Processor but was waiting. Was a little disappointed with the recent Marantz news. The new AV10 looks awesome but currently out of my budget. I was hoping for a fewer channel processor but still have multiple mono DACs and Dirac for less. Even if I could afford the AV10 I would end up paying for 4 channels and those mono DACs I couldn't use in my setup. Emotiva RMC-1L fits the bill for me having what I want on paper, but reading of constant bugs and the feeling the customer is the beta tester scares me away. Anthem and Arcam are missing DSD decoding. Everything else is a whole price tier level up.
Great video.
I appreciate it
I bought my receiver 2 years ago. A Marantz sr7013. My sub blew for no reason (nothing was even on) so I’ve decided to upgrade to a slightly bigger system. I have to get an amp because the new system is in 4 ohms and my receiver is 8 ohms. Real bummer
@Kpaceguy --- Any benefit to having an AVR and Pre/Pro w/wo amplifier working together in a movie/game or music center setup?
If I understand your question right, no
@@Kpaceguy--- What about AVR with amplifier? Also, since no benefit to using both AVR and Pre/Pro, is my choice between low price/low quality components/quick obsolescence (AVR) and high price/high quality components/upgradability (Pre/Pro)?
@antiWhiteism777 Avr with amp is definitely a benefit especially if you need more channels. And that's just how technology is, things become old tech very fast so choose a high-end enough component so that it'll do what you need for the longest amount of time. If it want to pair an avr with an amplifier then you automatically stick yourself into pretty decent components
Do they have processor with XLR cables only or do they have a processor with speaker wire Capability this will also determine if somebody will get AV Receiver or processor Depending on the output of their speakers
No processor has speaker wire. You don't need it. There are no amps inside or that would make it a receiver. Processors are either XLR, RCA or both
@@Kpaceguy got it
Are those Russound external preouts from Crutchfield any good? And do they sound as good as the preouts already in a reciever?
They don't change sound quality just voltage output which are better than most receivers
@@Kpaceguy yes I know they don't change the sound so what I'm asking is are they good will they hurt a reciever if a reciever wasn't built with pre outs are you putting a hurt on the non preout reciever by doing that? Thanks Kpaceguy...
@@bigguy1403 no it's fine
@@Kpaceguy ok I trust you bro thank you I'm gona order an amplifier now then and a set of those russound preout hookups.
In my experience, separate amps are more dynamic and clean.
AVR - with external amp
I have a Denon AVR X5200w and I know that you are correct that all AVR systems are not able to process because I have a Integra DR 60.6 it is a great unit but it is limited to front height only and is not able to process the height and the wides but will process the wides with a outboard amp and it will be okay but it will not be able to drive large amplifiers over 200 WPC before it clips , but the Denon is a much better AVR because it will give you 4 volts rms per preout which is what a processor system should do. The Denon is a full processor and if you look on the website you will not find a processor on the site because they do not need to sale them because some AVR that’s able to do this is the X series and they have the ability to resource the internal amplifier to do other things and they are a true 13.2 processor. But they are able to process external amplifier’s processing 400 WPC X 13 and I wasn’t convinced they would do what they said they are able to do until I did the research and was blown away so I bought it. They’re about to release a new AVH that will process 4 subwoofer channel’s independent with Audyssey and DIRAC and will work together . This I want to see . I must say that I was never going to buy a Denon because I was convinced that it was snake oil boy was I wrong.!!!!!!!!
you said "I have a Denon AVR X5200w and I know that you are correct that all AVR systems are not able to process "
what you talking bout man?
All AVRs are able to process..... what do you think they are doing when decoding dolby/ dts/ codecs? The only difference is that a pre/pro as most people like to call it is strictly dedicated to processing without the internal amps
@@demonreturns4336 I was speaking in about pre outs and being able to process up to 13 channels for front stage and the use of wides and 4 Atmos speakers. I just said it wrong and it will allow me to use external amplifier’s for all 13 channels when some AVR don’t have that ability to process in this way.
I have a Denon AV receiver with Dolby Atmos 8K 60 Hz and 4K 120 Hz HDMI input and output 9.2.2. I think that's the format. Two front, one center, two side? Two rear surround, two surround back, two hight channels for Dolby Atmos and two subs. I think I paid almost $900.00 for my receiver and I know Denon has better receivers or should I say more upgraded receivers than what I got but I love my receiver and the sound quality is far superior to what is out there. Once I've gone Denon there is no going back. Far better than sony which I use to have.
8k at 120hz I didn't know there was more upgradeable option than that.
What model Denon have you got and what Sony receiver did you have?
@@Antibackgroundnoise Sony was STR-DA5800ES and my Denon now is AVR-X4700H Much better sound quality over the Sony receiver.
@@josephbragg1162
yeah thought so 🤔
One shouldn't compare brands not unless price levels are similar. It could give one the wrong impression!
An old budget AVR going up against a mid-priced modern AVR is just not fair game.
I say this of course because I've actually had the opposite listening experience to what had! Even though my £2,000 Denon (6500) AVR absolutely smashed my budget £400 Sony STR dn1080 AVR at multi-channel (movies), when it came to 2-channel audio (music) the budget Sony IMO sounded more neutral compared to the more expensive Digital sounding Denon. (Hence the reason why I changed it for a analogue sounding receiver)
Thanks for the reply 👍
@@Antibackgroundnoise That's totally true. My Sony was good at stereo sound over the Denon but I'm always watching movies in 4K Dolby Atmos or DTS-EX or some sound similar so I totally appreciate the clean sound on the Denon. Super sharp and clear sounding effects. The duel subs are also a plus when adjusted and positioned correctly.
@@josephbragg1162 if you have a 2nd receiver you can process your rear or top Atmos channels and then you will have the setup for HT .
What if the DACs are the same?
You may still have better channel separation and a much lower noise floor especially with XLR outputs but the difference may not at all be worth the price
The quality difference between prepros and receivers has almost disappeared today.
For example, Marantz AV7706 prepro uses the same DAC (AKM AK4458VN) and same calibration software (Audyssey MultEQ XT32) as Denon X4700H. The latter can even operate as a prepro and objectively measures "cleaner" than the former in SINAD tests.
Another example is Audio Control Maestro X7 prepro and Concert XR-8 receiver (both support 9.1.6). They both incorporate ES9026PRO SABRE DAC and full Dirac Live calibration software.
Therefore, in most cases the differences is not about quality of sound in either category but the choice for internal amps. If your speakers have low sensitivity, chances are you'll be better served by a prepro and an external amp. But if your speakers have good sensitivity and reasonable impedance, a receiver is no brainer.
But some audio purists still believe that prepros are better, even when they aren't.
Depends on manufacturer and how they designed AVR. Denon/Marantz pre pro usually is noticeably better because they pack enormous amount of amps inside and it’s not that well designed/built - because aim is to make them affordable. More expensive they get the better built they are and difference disappears. Arcam for instance there was no difference between pre pro and AVR. But you pay a lot extra for xlr ports.
@@whitecrowuk575 Denon doesn't have any standalone processor, they're all receivers with the ability to turn off amps for mid-range to high-end categories. The amps aren't necessarily "poorly" designed, they are just not as powerful as standalone amps due to power requirements.
Denon receivers actually tend to perform better than Marantz processors at each respective price point. But people usually have expectation biases that make them hear differences that aren't necessarily there in sighted tests.
The generalized view that processors are sonically better that AVRs needs to end because it is no longer the case for a significant percentage of products out there.
@@DesmondKarani Most of the information in your post is completely fabricated. Why lie to people that read these posts looking for honest advice?
@@AT-wl9yq I can back up my claims with data. Can you please point out a single information I have shared that is incorrect? And please do your research before commenting.
@@DesmondKarani meant channel separation is better in Marantz pre pro. Generally speaking Denon AVR measure better than Marantz AVRs indeed but like you say there are people who prefer how the latter sounds.
Top AVRs have same channel separation as pre pro from same lineup and it makes hard to justify the increased cost of the latter except for when you need XLR outputs. Some brands (usually very top ones) don’t do AVRs just pre pros on the other hand). All in all generally false economy - getting less for more money.
Is this a new version of this, from 3 years ago?
3 years ago a made a video called av receiver vs separates. This is similar but more specifically targeted towards av receivers with separates vs fully going separate
I’m going with the AVR with pre-outs. Denon has a new line of AVR’s coming out, and I have my eye on the Denon X3800h, 9 channel with 11 channel processing, 4 independent sub outputs, also Atmos, DTS:X, IMAX Enhanced, Auro 3D, with Dirac upgrade!! Marantz also has a new line coming as well!
"A stand alone processor ..well you're going to have to power all the channels😕!? (Out!) ..er..yeah!😶?
You can leave the surround back's on the A.V.receiver and power out the rest ..
We went down the A.V.R. Root because the connection are there huge up grade on a very small budget💷..
The only real up grade to do is a budget 8k projector ...
Hopefully from Optoma or benq (dlp-chip) a must😇
" that's where we are at!✌peace!
d🤕🇪🇺🗺
All home theater gear is diminished returns. The hobby is a money pit that eventually leads to nonsatisfaction due to exhaustion. But we still take the journey because it seems like it's nothing better else to do.
I don't buy "home theater" gear. I buy music gear that I also use for home theater and I'm always satisfied because of my love for music, not movies.
@@Kpaceguy My point IS, the gear we buy ultimately leads to non satisfaction because we keep evolving are equipment. AKA, upgrading. If you're ultimately satisfied, you wouldn't have the emotions to upgrade your equipment. Are you telling me my points I conveyed isn't True?
These things we buy will do nothing for us when calamity hits. Again, and I digress. This is what we do in life because we feel there's nothing else to do. Taught behavior is learned behavior.
@@taseti4803 no you're correct. I Wouldn't say people upgrade because of dissatisfaction necessarily. Sometimes you're forced to because one piece of equipment is newer than the rest and now there are handshake issues or maybe there's a new cutting edge technology like dolby vision for example and the only way to have it is to upgrade. Not because your equipment no longer satisfies you but because there's something that will satisfy you more.
@@Kpaceguy It all leads to exhaustion. Don't get me wrong. I'm not being a debbie downer. I've upgraded my hear multiple times as well. I just recently upgraded my system and I couldn't help to start thinking about where I'm going to go from here, where I'm at. I think you've tallied all the money you spent on all the gear you've purchased along the way till now. That number includes the remotes and cables too. I'm pretty sure that number is a price you never intended to spend when you started out.
Now what's scary about that, is you probably cant see an end in sight with more money to be spent. This is an expensive hobby to type the least.
I enjoy your content. You found your niche a long time ago in between all other content creators on TH-cam in this specific community.
@@taseti4803 thanks for watching
Why can't u have students in the same box as the teachers
Can u pls up the vid quality
The video is 4k. You have to wait for TH-cam to process the HD
@@Kpaceguy 7.1.6 or 9.1.4, which is better?
I got 1 seat and 1 row only.
Won't really hear any difference between an AVR and prepro if your speakers aren't super fussy with amp power in the first place. Plus, I'm not really concerned with the latest and greatest updates especially since 8k content barely even exists yet.
Not true
@@Kpaceguy given the same brand, as products keep evolving in quality, the parts they use pretty much trickle down their lines so the massive step up in prices don’t necessarily replicate the same quality difference, maybe like a +-5% difference in sound.
What's with the getto words, dude? You need to practice bofore you go live or record online because when engineers watch your channel all they hear is mumbo jumbo mumbo jumbo amps mumbo jumbo and then you say things like "worser" that's terrible, just use "worse" instead, and there was a bunch of other stuff like it. Electrical and electronics engineering requires that the presenter understand sophisticated concepts of technology and there is some abstract thinking involved as well as difficult concepts which you should be able to present with some authority and yet you don't, certainly not with the sort of intelligence and coherence required to make you believable, but more importantly you must play the role show you authority in the matter subject and start by utilizing the proper vocabulary preferably the vocabulary used by the industry. I can assure you that untrue nonsense will not fly no matter how hard you try to pretend and that's becuase there is no place for being inauthentic in science, it sends the wrong message. I'm assuming you're an engineer of sorts otherwise you need to up your game dude or try to read a book on the subject from time to time certainly before you go live or online. I mean you're not wrong about your comparisons and preferences' and in fact like you said the preprocessor is in fact high end gear, expensive gear, a powerful unit no question about it comes with the advantage of being constantly upgraded which makes the codecs and management system far superior than the any AV receiver in the market, I totally agree with your position, but I'm a little worried that you come across as someone with poor knowlege about the subject. There are some good books out there I'm sure you can find one. Please don't be offended but use this comment and comments like it positively. Good luck.
What are you talking about
Lilly Zegarra...... wrote a whole damn book here in the comment section off of some dumb shit
@@demonreturns4336 You're absolutely right, I certainly wrote about some dumb shit on the Internet and thanks for establishing it and confirming it. I feel so much better now.
Its ghetto not getto FYI.
@@carlosh8113 Hey busy bee! Congrats you won the spelling bee. I'm sorry, I'm all out of stickers. You're very skillful, what insight? How did you do it? Your ability to spot mispelled words means that you are headed for greatness. I bet you couldn't sleep all night knowing that you had spotted a spelling mistake and the world is a better place because of you. You go girl!
pre outs are better, you can add an equalizer and an external amp
I think a great way to utilize an older receiver is to use its 5.1/7.1 channel inputs (if it has them) to drive some surround channels and go out and buy a new processor and a new 3 (or 5,7) channel amp to power the front stage. This way you can still use the amps in the older receiver and save a little money. I'm looking at a new 13 channel processor and can use my receiver's built in 7 amps.
@P T Ultra high end receivers like the ARCAM AVR5 are out of reach for a lot of people (like me). For instance the AVR10 is listed at $3800.00 in Canada (I could not find a price for the AVR5). Believe me I would love to own one especially since it has the ESS Sabre DAC chip but probably not going to happen. Finding a good quality receiver that can process 11 channels for under $2500 Cdn is tough. I would have to look at the Anthem 740 ($3400). The Anthem 540 only processes 7 channels. The Pioneer 505 at $2100 is an option but not knocking Pioneer, (they make great products), I would rather stay away from mainstream mass market receivers. So I've decided on getting the Emotiva MC-1 that processes 13 channels and buying the Emotiva 7 channel amp. My NAD receiver can power the 6 atmos speakers that as you say don't need a lot of dynamic range just jigga-watts to drive them. This way at least all the base speakers will have the same tonal balance and the atmos speakers will as a group also. Hopefully the sonic differences between the two will be negligible. Maybe one day I'll "get off my wallet " like a friend of mine always says but it's like a brass ring that I'm always trying to reach but never do. Appreciate the comment.
@P T Well maybe if I can hunt one down it will definitely be an option. ARCAM was actually my first choice but I thought they were out of reach thanks.
One spec I found rated the amps at 60 watts/ch with all channels driven. Is that sufficient from your experience?
@@todd69erit is not, as that rms is already cut down from 2 ch. listening. As your playing your avr (60watts) it will dip at the high point of either a song or movie (dolby/dts). I have literally heard and seen benchmark results in said scenario(s) where rms dips to 22 watts rms.
No different than trying to push a weaker video card into flagship GPU frame rate etc tier!