Good video, Mike. Very tragic incident. I have an RV8 and it's an amazing aircraft. Looking at the track with mental math, it seems he did have partial power. He got to best glide (Vbg) quickly but I agree he was very optimistic in thinking he'd get back to the airport, assuming that's what he was doing. As pilots we have to keep reminding ourselves that a very rough landing just above stall almost anywhere is much more survivable than a stall/spin. I don't know if this pilot was the builder or not, but there seems to be a tendency for builders to take additional risk to save the aircraft, rather than focusing on saving their own life. Since I built mine, I'm trying to constantly program my brain to sacrifice the aircraft to survive if this should happen to me, and use those extra years of my life to build a new one. I keep recalling what my primary flight training instructor kept telling me when we were briefing engine failure on takeoff - "You must survive!" and of course "Fly!" - seems hokey, and at the time seemed a bit obvious, but the more decades of flying I get under my belt, the better I understand why he did it.
I have one too. I often fly high performance takeoffs as well. I also have close to 25k hours. A lot of people with lots of experience have been bitten in the backside in RV's and engine failures, many times ending in stall / spin. Not sure what it is, whether its the investment in time or money for a homebuilt or what. From my experience, there is something psychological about it. As Mike points out, if you're gonna crash, the most important thing to do is survive as best you can. Every time I practice engine outs, I have to really push myself to maintain glide to the landing and not slow too much. It is a bit eye watering to think about it, as the rate of descent is pretty high at idle, add propeller drag and its really eye watering, not something we're used to. I'd be willing to bet, that most of us high timers do not practice this maneuver enough, because we have a heightened sense of experience and "if it happens, I'll handle it when it happens." I don't subscribe to that thought process. Startle, as Mike mentions is real. . . for ANYONE. Practice like you play, play like you practice. If you don't practice it, then when it does happen you're not going to be ready for the rate of descent. My thought just before take off is, if it quits, I have somewhere between 50 to 60 knots of excess energy to get to Vg, which may yield 1000 to 1500 feet of increased altitude. Then maybe about 10-15 seconds to get it running again. At all times looking for a place to land. I'd also take a road with traffic. I'll take a golf course over a paved road, a paved road over a dirt road, a dirt road over an open field. If its a paved road, hopefully I can merge with traffic just enough to avoid a major impact causing injury to others. Next step is to fly the airplane to the crash site. Three point attitude, slow when low, mine is a tail dragger and I pray it doesn't go over the top after all that (hopefully) success. Upside down, on the ground and nobody to help, plus the potential for fire is a not so good result of a successful off field landing. All the while rehearsing Bob Hoover's advice to fly the airplane as far in to the crash as possible. As a final bit of unsolicited advice. I think it should be mentioned the importance of good maintenance. Homebuilts offer a tremendous cost savings in maintenance. They also offer significant leeway in regulatory techniques that certified aircraft require. Know what you have, know how it works, one homebuilt is not like the next. They are after all, experimental. Great analysis Mike.
He could have landed on Legacy Highway. That time of day, the highway would not have been busy. There was an also a dirt road that parallels Legacy, but that road would not have been very forgiving. Great analysis! Thank you again for the great review!!
I own an -8 and that is where I would have gone, mainly because I stand a better chance of not flipping upon landing which I am sure it would in a field.
There are power lines on the northbound side of Legacy and more next to the dirt road. The southbound lanes of Legacy would likely have been okay. It would also have been "okay" if he had flown it to the ground while he still had enough airspeed...
The RV8 is probably the lowest performance airplane this pilot had flown in well over a decade. If it could happen to someone with this much experience, it could happen to any of us. RIP Nate-Dawg.
As someone who went through a forced landing in a caravan, I will say the urge to pull close to the ground is very, very real. (The audio from ATC perspective is on my channel). I was descending into trees and saw then going by the sides, but managed to miss them and make a perfect landing into the adjoining field. But the urge to pull was there. Flying or aopa magazine had an article titled “The Pull” addressing this. Shortly after my incident, a couple in a Bonanza from my area lost their engine , on a gorgeous day at altitude, and stall spun the last few feet.
I live just north of Skypark, there is lots of landing abilities. My son is friends with this pilots nephew. Sad for the family. Godspeed captain, rest in peace.
We react to emergencies from a high altitude orientation, rather than low altitude orientation. Even with time, altitude is time, we still experience the low altitude portion of the emergency as this pilot did. His lack of low altitude orientation and technique was perhaps fatal. As Nelson says, we should bank the airplane to orient into a survivable landing zone. Just don't skid is out of phase a bit. Spin cannot happen without stall. We worry too much about skidding turns. As an Ag instructor I found than most commercial pilots slip too much in steep turns. None of my students skidded to make the next swath run. With the nose well down when we allow the nose to go down as designed in turns, skidding a bit to go over the wire wings level rather than with a wing still down is a smart move. The key is to not stall. What does the airplane want to do? Yes, it wants to get the nose down to return to trimmed airspeed. The airplane cannot stall itself or go into graveyard spiral. For either, the pilot must pull back on the stick. No pull, no stall. Crop duster turns, steep turns, stay very nearly 1 g. This is because we allow the nose to go down as soon as we bank. Low altitude orientation triggers limited horizontal space available as well as vertical limitations. Yet, when we turn without pulling back on the stick, 1 g, a turn of whatever bank necessary to miss horizontal obstructions is a 1 g snap. Where do we get the idea that we will stay up if we pull? From being taught to pull to maintain altitude at any cost. The cost in low altitude orientation is death. It doesn't matter which wing stalls first, low in skidding spin or high in slipping spin, or both. Stall with or without spin is game over.
Hi Karl, thanks for the super thanks! I really appreciate your support, and it helps me make more videos in the future. What is your aviation background? Have a great day!
Great report Mike. Another option…and I realize I’m Monday morning quarterbacking here, but at the point where his airspeed started to diminish, he’s 200mph and about 1000’ agl…and 6 miles off his nose is Hill AFB. At that point it was 10 miles back to Skypark. Start immediate climb trading airspeed for altitude and then at best glide head straight towards that beautiful 13,500’ runway at Hill. Once established at best glide, squawk 7700, contact Hill tower, declare emergency. Easy for me to say… I know. But Hill was a MUCH BETTER option. With Hill, there was no turning around required, just fly straight ahead, and he was 4 miles closer…and the tailwind would have helped him get closer. He would have more than likely landed with a tailwind at Hill, but who cares on a 13,500’ runway. Btw, been flying an RV-7 for 20 years. I realize/understand the limitations of RV’s. Fast and fun, but not the best gliders. RIP Don.
Very good comment. I considered covering that in my video. However I noticed the elevation of Hill AFB is 500' higher than BTF and has more congested areas immediately surrounding it. Therefore I don't fault him for at least initially turning around.
I experienced two partial power losses. One was a seized exhaust valve on one cylinder and the other was a failed air filter that clogged the induction manifold. In both, I was able to use partial power to fly to a power off approach and landing. But I didn’t just go to idle power and land off airport. I used partial power to get to the abeam point on the downward and fly the power off 180 approach. Don’t tach people to land/ditch immediately after a partial power loss. If the plane is flying, continue to fly and land at the closest airport. Be ready for complete loss of power the whole time.
The aviation News talk podcast dedicates an entire episode to partial power losses. They end up tricking pilots into thinking that they can count on the extra power when they cannot, and we do not train for partial power losses. That's why they are so dangerous. If you have plenty of altitude and air speed then you're fine.
I have more time to give a few more thoughts: If you have a partial power loss, the first reaction should be to put as much altitude in your "bank" as possible, to expand your options of airports where you are able to land. Best glide speed is the lowest-drag configuration for your airplane and that's what I would recommend. However I've heard countless stories from pilots that have had a partial power loss in IMC and kept strolling along towards a normal 3-degree glideslope approach, except when you lose the rest of your power, you are descending at likely 5 or 6 degrees instead. Here's the podcast I was referring to: aviationnewstalk.com/podcast/262-the-deadly-partial-engine-failure-with-tom-turner-ga-news/
Will be interesting in finding out just what really happened in those final seconds if possible. This was a very experienced Air Force and Airline pilot. Presumably with many thousands of hours of flight time in high performance aircraft.
Doesn't really matter with regards to experience. In fact a former leader of the Thunderbirds crashed last Sunday and was killed. I don't care how much time you got or what you've flown, if you can't exercise basic airmanship your toast.
Being local to the area, I am not sure how he thought he would make the trip back to the runway at such a low altitude. It's about 13-14 miles from where he lost power back to the departure airport. Experienced or not, this stuff can humble anyone. Rest easy pilot. Thank you for your analysis on this. Very detailed and informative.
He wouldn’t have been able to land on the golf course. It isn’t flat ground. It has lots of hills and slopes up to the mountain range. 😢 thank you for the insight into what happen. He is a family member and we are heartbroken by this tragedy
If you lose your engine right after takeoff or on short final at the bountiful airport you are royally screwed. Once you get a mile north of the airport where this guy was you have a lot of options. I think trying to make the airport was a mistake because coming up short is going to be bad here. Although it is easy to fault this pilot I think when plan A fails and there was no plan b it’s easy to panic. Now you are close to the ground with no plan and little airspeed. The lesson I take from this is make plan A extremely doable, even if it’s ugly because there isn’t going to be plan b.
Also, the accelerated stall speeds in the chart that we all know only apply to level flight. If you’re descending, accelerated stall exists, but at a lower value than what’s in that chart. You can bank the airplane and you should bank the airplane if you need to. Just don’t skid the turn.
Notice that I did include the phrase " while holding altitude" because I completely agree with this. I'm trying to keep my videos short and not go into too much depth but it's totally fine to make a steep bank in the pattern as long as you don't pull back. But pulling back is what you need to do to maintain altitude and if you are very close to the ground, you are going to pull back to maintain altitude. (Voice typos sorry)
I was flying an extra 300 straight and level well inside maneuvering speed (around 130kts), and turned to fight another extra and the aircraft just stalled and fell. Knife edge and 5gs is all it took. I learned so much from that. We hear so much about accelerated stalls but until we experience and recover from one , we don't intuitively know where that edge is. I now have much more respect for my turn rate, at any speed. If I had my own airplane (doesn't matter what it is) I would practice that at a safe altitude. It might just save your life one day.
a 300' RC airstrip is nothing to an RV pilot needing a em runway length. It goes by in a flash at 100 mph. So maybe 800' min. just sayin'. Flown both. RCM not comparable when you're in the air. a 1/4 mile road is better.
I don’t think you should be criticising a pilot who’s passed away when you don’t know what actually happened. Loads of speculative know it all comments, if the the Pilot was a friend of mine I wouldn’t have been happy. Be more respectful.
I couldn't disagree with you more. I think it's totally possible to balance respect to those that have passed away and their families and to simultaneously discuss any possible lessons we can learn right now to prevent the same thing from happening to anyone else. There are gobs and gobs of data available right now so the lessons to other pilots can begin now. We should not throw up a roadblock to learning just because someone passed away in an accident. If it were me that had passed away in an accident, I would hope others would immediately learn from my potential mistakes and bad decisions and not repeat them. Not only can we learn lessons immediately from accidents but we can also provide closure to people that are desperately seeking relevant and valid information about an accident. There is an extreme shortage of useful information in the media after these crashes. Being tactful about these events means not making hard assumptions or throwing blame anywhere, but having a careful balance of ranking the possible causes of the accident and thinking about how we can mitigate these circumstances or make different decisions in the future.
@@MalibuMikeCFII I agree its possible to do what you said in the first paragraph of your reply above. I just don't think Mike did it. He needs to think on how listening to what he says lands with those involved. You then said: Being tactful about these events means not making hard assumptions or throwing blame anywhere, but having a careful balance of ranking the possible causes of the accident and thinking about how we can mitigate these circumstances or make different decisions in the future Which is exactly my point, again Mike failed in this regard. Regards, Clive
@@englishclive This is me, I made the video. I disagree with your opinion. I have personally heard from people who are friends and family of the pilot and they appreciated and commented on my video thanking me for this. So yes, there are many conclusions we can make, and lessons we can learn right away, and closure we can have. If you want to be critical of any of my assertions, please call them out specifically instead of name-calling (e.g. "know-it-all remarks").
Drove by this accident. Front of plane was facing north east. The freeway has one lane reactions due to bridge construction just about a mile or so north of where plane landed. Less tha a quarter mile is a bridge that laps over for about Half a mile elevated and is surround by buildings and turns. Unfortunately i saw this pilots body sitting in the plane still, lifeless before police put up a barrier. The field he chose is very flat relative to natures sake. I see why he chose it but wouldnt have much stopping room before running into a tree line. Facing south is close to no runway before bridge and buildings .. i would have probably given the spot a good consideration given then terrain. Not much options. The front of the plane did appear to be very black. I could not tell was the paint scheme or oil splatter. Didn't appear to be charing from a fire just do to lack of smoke. I think we fail to remember these are humans from time to time. My father was a private pilot and this struck home forsure. Very sad. Edit: i am not a pilot. Just local observer.
Sorry to hear this impacted you personally so much from directly observing this. It pains me to see so many crashes where pilots overlook easier places to land while hoping they can make it back to the airport without a scratch on the airplane. A life is worth so much more than an airplane!
@MalibuMikeCFII in your experience what is the general rate of speed/altitude in an engine failure? Was he over estimating the plane glide ability or was his decrease rate considered abnormal? 60 mph in 10 seconds doesn't give you much problem solving time. The wasatch front is grossly populated.. he really only had a couple options and. A short amount of time to decide it seems. Hard to judge a man's ability to perform under panic/stress as well as computer his options at such a decrease of air speed. Hind sight is 20/20 so to speak. None the less tragic.
@@Alixxusa it's almost impossible to say and varies based on how much power is lost and whether the propeller is windmilling or stopped, and also if it's a constant speed prop if the lever is full aft which can increase glide performance by 20-40%. By the looks of this accident it looks like partial power was still available at least at some point.
If you try to land on that golf course, you are dead. It might be flat on your maps, but it has lots of highs and lows as well as tons of trees. It would be easier to land in downtown salt lake city.
I hope you are never in the situation where that was an option, but a golf course is a far better alternative than a wooded area or a lake! but to say "you are dead" is horse$hit
Best review Mike. succinct. just the facts. brought up every point I could see ... and you logically addressed them. Including speeds, DA vs PA issues. partial vs full power loss. Nice job. Stick to what is available, here its ADSB data. Don't become an ambulance chasing BlancoL guy with no relevant data-facts just to be the first on scene. If there's nothing to add from the dumb news media broadcast, don't waste yours or our time with the upload.
I don't understand, so the pilot had a gravel road and a normal road off to the left why didn't he just land on the roads into the wind doesn't make any sense at all
@@allenlipson7512okay it's obvious now He thinks he's God He thinks he's God's greatest gift to aviation and he's going to save it. Maby in a low performance airplane like a Piper cub but certainly not in a high performance airplane like an RV8. Also it could be that this was his pride and joy and he didn't want to chance it with an off-airport landing so he kept pushing it back, and pushed it back trying to make the airport at all costs: wrong wrong wrong
@christophergagliano2051 i certainly don't think this man, husband, and father thought he was God. and I'm certainly not going to assume what he was thinking. This man lost his life. I work at the squadron he was an instructor at. He was an well respected pilot. He not only taught primary flight student aviators, but he also trained other instructors in the T6B aircraft. A complex and fast aircraft.
@@allenlipson7512 I'm sorry for your loss, my dad was an Air Force pilot he to lost friends. But for f**** sake don't try to be the hero. The RV is a wonderful airplane and has great handling qualities, you can do anything with it. It lands so damn slow just point the nose into the wind and let it settle. None of this fancy b******* maneuvering at such a low altitude, that was absolutely ridiculous.
Good video, Mike. Very tragic incident.
I have an RV8 and it's an amazing aircraft. Looking at the track with mental math, it seems he did have partial power. He got to best glide (Vbg) quickly but I agree he was very optimistic in thinking he'd get back to the airport, assuming that's what he was doing. As pilots we have to keep reminding ourselves that a very rough landing just above stall almost anywhere is much more survivable than a stall/spin.
I don't know if this pilot was the builder or not, but there seems to be a tendency for builders to take additional risk to save the aircraft, rather than focusing on saving their own life. Since I built mine, I'm trying to constantly program my brain to sacrifice the aircraft to survive if this should happen to me, and use those extra years of my life to build a new one.
I keep recalling what my primary flight training instructor kept telling me when we were briefing engine failure on takeoff - "You must survive!" and of course "Fly!" - seems hokey, and at the time seemed a bit obvious, but the more decades of flying I get under my belt, the better I understand why he did it.
I have one too. I often fly high performance takeoffs as well. I also have close to 25k hours. A lot of people with lots of experience have been bitten in the backside in RV's and engine failures, many times ending in stall / spin. Not sure what it is, whether its the investment in time or money for a homebuilt or what. From my experience, there is something psychological about it. As Mike points out, if you're gonna crash, the most important thing to do is survive as best you can. Every time I practice engine outs, I have to really push myself to maintain glide to the landing and not slow too much. It is a bit eye watering to think about it, as the rate of descent is pretty high at idle, add propeller drag and its really eye watering, not something we're used to. I'd be willing to bet, that most of us high timers do not practice this maneuver enough, because we have a heightened sense of experience and "if it happens, I'll handle it when it happens." I don't subscribe to that thought process. Startle, as Mike mentions is real. . . for ANYONE. Practice like you play, play like you practice. If you don't practice it, then when it does happen you're not going to be ready for the rate of descent. My thought just before take off is, if it quits, I have somewhere between 50 to 60 knots of excess energy to get to Vg, which may yield 1000 to 1500 feet of increased altitude. Then maybe about 10-15 seconds to get it running again. At all times looking for a place to land. I'd also take a road with traffic. I'll take a golf course over a paved road, a paved road over a dirt road, a dirt road over an open field. If its a paved road, hopefully I can merge with traffic just enough to avoid a major impact causing injury to others. Next step is to fly the airplane to the crash site. Three point attitude, slow when low, mine is a tail dragger and I pray it doesn't go over the top after all that (hopefully) success. Upside down, on the ground and nobody to help, plus the potential for fire is a not so good result of a successful off field landing. All the while rehearsing Bob Hoover's advice to fly the airplane as far in to the crash as possible. As a final bit of unsolicited advice. I think it should be mentioned the importance of good maintenance. Homebuilts offer a tremendous cost savings in maintenance. They also offer significant leeway in regulatory techniques that certified aircraft require. Know what you have, know how it works, one homebuilt is not like the next. They are after all, experimental. Great analysis Mike.
He could have landed on Legacy Highway. That time of day, the highway would not have been busy. There was an also a dirt road that parallels Legacy, but that road would not have been very forgiving. Great analysis! Thank you again for the great review!!
I own an -8 and that is where I would have gone, mainly because I stand a better chance of not flipping upon landing which I am sure it would in a field.
There are power lines on the northbound side of Legacy and more next to the dirt road. The southbound lanes of Legacy would likely have been okay. It would also have been "okay" if he had flown it to the ground while he still had enough airspeed...
Subscribed! Your analysis is very detailed for each phase. You have a lot of knowledge and Insight and I appreciate you taking the time to share it.
The RV8 is probably the lowest performance airplane this pilot had flown in well over a decade. If it could happen to someone with this much experience, it could happen to any of us. RIP Nate-Dawg.
This pilot was an accomplished USAF pilot and was a Primary Flight Instructor Pilot at NAS Whiting field as well.
If it can happen to Richard McSpadden then it can happen to any of us. It's extremely humbling.
As someone who went through a forced landing in a caravan, I will say the urge to pull close to the ground is very, very real. (The audio from ATC perspective is on my channel). I was descending into trees and saw then going by the sides, but managed to miss them and make a perfect landing into the adjoining field. But the urge to pull was there. Flying or aopa magazine had an article titled “The Pull” addressing this. Shortly after my incident, a couple in a Bonanza from my area lost their engine , on a gorgeous day at altitude, and stall spun the last few feet.
I live just north of Skypark, there is lots of landing abilities. My son is friends with this pilots nephew. Sad for the family. Godspeed captain, rest in peace.
We react to emergencies from a high altitude orientation, rather than low altitude orientation. Even with time, altitude is time, we still experience the low altitude portion of the emergency as this pilot did. His lack of low altitude orientation and technique was perhaps fatal. As Nelson says, we should bank the airplane to orient into a survivable landing zone. Just don't skid is out of phase a bit. Spin cannot happen without stall. We worry too much about skidding turns. As an Ag instructor I found than most commercial pilots slip too much in steep turns. None of my students skidded to make the next swath run. With the nose well down when we allow the nose to go down as designed in turns, skidding a bit to go over the wire wings level rather than with a wing still down is a smart move. The key is to not stall. What does the airplane want to do? Yes, it wants to get the nose down to return to trimmed airspeed. The airplane cannot stall itself or go into graveyard spiral. For either, the pilot must pull back on the stick. No pull, no stall. Crop duster turns, steep turns, stay very nearly 1 g. This is because we allow the nose to go down as soon as we bank. Low altitude orientation triggers limited horizontal space available as well as vertical limitations. Yet, when we turn without pulling back on the stick, 1 g, a turn of whatever bank necessary to miss horizontal obstructions is a 1 g snap. Where do we get the idea that we will stay up if we pull? From being taught to pull to maintain altitude at any cost. The cost in low altitude orientation is death. It doesn't matter which wing stalls first, low in skidding spin or high in slipping spin, or both. Stall with or without spin is game over.
Interesting point and perspective. Flown many years and never thought about that. Thank you. Probably obvious for glider pilots.
Malibu Mike this is very well explained and thank you for sharing this information
Thanks!
Hi Karl, thanks for the super thanks! I really appreciate your support, and it helps me make more videos in the future. What is your aviation background? Have a great day!
Great report Mike. Another option…and I realize I’m Monday morning quarterbacking here, but at the point where his airspeed started to diminish, he’s 200mph and about 1000’ agl…and 6 miles off his nose is Hill AFB. At that point it was 10 miles back to Skypark. Start immediate climb trading airspeed for altitude and then at best glide head straight towards that beautiful 13,500’ runway at Hill. Once established at best glide, squawk 7700, contact Hill tower, declare emergency. Easy for me to say… I know. But Hill was a MUCH BETTER option. With Hill, there was no turning around required, just fly straight ahead, and he was 4 miles closer…and the tailwind would have helped him get closer. He would have more than likely landed with a tailwind at Hill, but who cares on a 13,500’ runway. Btw, been flying an RV-7 for 20 years. I realize/understand the limitations of RV’s. Fast and fun, but not the best gliders. RIP Don.
Very good comment. I considered covering that in my video. However I noticed the elevation of Hill AFB is 500' higher than BTF and has more congested areas immediately surrounding it. Therefore I don't fault him for at least initially turning around.
I experienced two partial power losses. One was a seized exhaust valve on one cylinder and the other was a failed air filter that clogged the induction manifold. In both, I was able to use partial power to fly to a power off approach and landing. But I didn’t just go to idle power and land off airport. I used partial power to get to the abeam point on the downward and fly the power off 180 approach. Don’t tach people to land/ditch immediately after a partial power loss. If the plane is flying, continue to fly and land at the closest airport. Be ready for complete loss of power the whole time.
The aviation News talk podcast dedicates an entire episode to partial power losses. They end up tricking pilots into thinking that they can count on the extra power when they cannot, and we do not train for partial power losses. That's why they are so dangerous. If you have plenty of altitude and air speed then you're fine.
I have more time to give a few more thoughts: If you have a partial power loss, the first reaction should be to put as much altitude in your "bank" as possible, to expand your options of airports where you are able to land. Best glide speed is the lowest-drag configuration for your airplane and that's what I would recommend.
However I've heard countless stories from pilots that have had a partial power loss in IMC and kept strolling along towards a normal 3-degree glideslope approach, except when you lose the rest of your power, you are descending at likely 5 or 6 degrees instead.
Here's the podcast I was referring to: aviationnewstalk.com/podcast/262-the-deadly-partial-engine-failure-with-tom-turner-ga-news/
Will be interesting in finding out just what really happened in those final seconds if possible. This was a very experienced Air Force and Airline pilot. Presumably with many thousands of hours of flight time in high performance aircraft.
Doesn't really matter with regards to experience. In fact a former leader of the Thunderbirds crashed last Sunday and was killed. I don't care how much time you got or what you've flown, if you can't exercise basic airmanship your toast.
Being local to the area, I am not sure how he thought he would make the trip back to the runway at such a low altitude. It's about 13-14 miles from where he lost power back to the departure airport. Experienced or not, this stuff can humble anyone. Rest easy pilot. Thank you for your analysis on this. Very detailed and informative.
He wouldn’t have been able to land on the golf course. It isn’t flat ground. It has lots of hills and slopes up to the mountain range. 😢 thank you for the insight into what happen. He is a family member and we are heartbroken by this tragedy
So sorry for your loss.
If you lose your engine right after takeoff or on short final at the bountiful airport you are royally screwed. Once you get a mile north of the airport where this guy was you have a lot of options. I think trying to make the airport was a mistake because coming up short is going to be bad here.
Although it is easy to fault this pilot I think when plan A fails and there was no plan b it’s easy to panic. Now you are close to the ground with no plan and little airspeed. The lesson I take from this is make plan A extremely doable, even if it’s ugly because there isn’t going to be plan b.
Also, the accelerated stall speeds in the chart that we all know only apply to level flight. If you’re descending, accelerated stall exists, but at a lower value than what’s in that chart. You can bank the airplane and you should bank the airplane if you need to. Just don’t skid the turn.
Notice that I did include the phrase " while holding altitude" because I completely agree with this. I'm trying to keep my videos short and not go into too much depth but it's totally fine to make a steep bank in the pattern as long as you don't pull back. But pulling back is what you need to do to maintain altitude and if you are very close to the ground, you are going to pull back to maintain altitude. (Voice typos sorry)
Excellent advice. Partial power should be treated as full power loss, unless you are over a desert, of course.
That “road” on the far side of the fence is a bike trail. They are built on old/retired train lines.
I was flying an extra 300 straight and level well inside maneuvering speed (around 130kts), and turned to fight another extra and the aircraft just stalled and fell. Knife edge and 5gs is all it took. I learned so much from that. We hear so much about accelerated stalls but until we experience and recover from one , we don't intuitively know where that edge is. I now have much more respect for my turn rate, at any speed. If I had my own airplane (doesn't matter what it is) I would practice that at a safe altitude. It might just save your life one day.
Great data point. Thanks for sharing!
I’m about to take my new to me RV6A across the country and had to watch this 🤦🏻♂️
How new are you to it Race? Fly it in your immediate area for a few hours before embarking on the x-country. That is what I did when I bought my -8.
@@jcheck6 I’m obviously going to fly it first. But lately stuffs been falling out of the air. Pick it up Sunday
@@RaceMentally Have 1300 hrs in RVs and never had an issue. The odds are with you for a successful x-c. Enjoy the trip.
@@jcheck6 thank you sir 🙏🏼
I doubt the pilot was "literally painting" anything during the emergency.
A model air port is just a few 100 yards away from the crash site.
a 300' RC airstrip is nothing to an RV pilot needing a em runway length. It goes by in a flash at 100 mph. So maybe 800' min. just sayin'. Flown both. RCM not comparable when you're in the air. a 1/4 mile road is better.
Yeah but golf couses typically have small hills & bumps, trees 🌳 & sand pits.
Not the ideal landing place unless one sees a clear straight fairway
Looks like the terrain he crashed on was very adaptable to land with an engine out? I believe he simply refused to accept the inevitable?
I don’t think you should be criticising a pilot who’s passed away when you don’t know what actually happened. Loads of speculative know it all comments, if the the Pilot was a friend of mine I wouldn’t have been happy.
Be more respectful.
I couldn't disagree with you more.
I think it's totally possible to balance respect to those that have passed away and their families and to simultaneously discuss any possible lessons we can learn right now to prevent the same thing from happening to anyone else.
There are gobs and gobs of data available right now so the lessons to other pilots can begin now. We should not throw up a roadblock to learning just because someone passed away in an accident. If it were me that had passed away in an accident, I would hope others would immediately learn from my potential mistakes and bad decisions and not repeat them.
Not only can we learn lessons immediately from accidents but we can also provide closure to people that are desperately seeking relevant and valid information about an accident. There is an extreme shortage of useful information in the media after these crashes.
Being tactful about these events means not making hard assumptions or throwing blame anywhere, but having a careful balance of ranking the possible causes of the accident and thinking about how we can mitigate these circumstances or make different decisions in the future.
@@MalibuMikeCFII I agree its possible to do what you said in the first paragraph of your reply above. I just don't think Mike did it. He needs to think on how listening to what he says lands with those involved.
You then said:
Being tactful about these events means not making hard assumptions or throwing blame anywhere, but having a careful balance of ranking the possible causes of the accident and thinking about how we can mitigate these circumstances or make different decisions in the future
Which is exactly my point, again Mike failed in this regard.
Regards, Clive
@@englishclive This is me, I made the video. I disagree with your opinion. I have personally heard from people who are friends and family of the pilot and they appreciated and commented on my video thanking me for this. So yes, there are many conclusions we can make, and lessons we can learn right away, and closure we can have. If you want to be critical of any of my assertions, please call them out specifically instead of name-calling (e.g. "know-it-all remarks").
I practice for these scenarios, but first instinct will be to pull the CAPS
Could he have thought that was a lake? Since he might have had oil on his windscreen
Drove by this accident. Front of plane was facing north east. The freeway has one lane reactions due to bridge construction just about a mile or so north of where plane landed. Less tha a quarter mile is a bridge that laps over for about Half a mile elevated and is surround by buildings and turns. Unfortunately i saw this pilots body sitting in the plane still, lifeless before police put up a barrier. The field he chose is very flat relative to natures sake. I see why he chose it but wouldnt have much stopping room before running into a tree line. Facing south is close to no runway before bridge and buildings .. i would have probably given the spot a good consideration given then terrain. Not much options. The front of the plane did appear to be very black. I could not tell was the paint scheme or oil splatter. Didn't appear to be charing from a fire just do to lack of smoke. I think we fail to remember these are humans from time to time. My father was a private pilot and this struck home forsure. Very sad. Edit: i am not a pilot. Just local observer.
Sorry to hear this impacted you personally so much from directly observing this. It pains me to see so many crashes where pilots overlook easier places to land while hoping they can make it back to the airport without a scratch on the airplane. A life is worth so much more than an airplane!
@MalibuMikeCFII in your experience what is the general rate of speed/altitude in an engine failure? Was he over estimating the plane glide ability or was his decrease rate considered abnormal? 60 mph in 10 seconds doesn't give you much problem solving time. The wasatch front is grossly populated.. he really only had a couple options and. A short amount of time to decide it seems. Hard to judge a man's ability to perform under panic/stress as well as computer his options at such a decrease of air speed. Hind sight is 20/20 so to speak. None the less tragic.
@@Alixxusa it's almost impossible to say and varies based on how much power is lost and whether the propeller is windmilling or stopped, and also if it's a constant speed prop if the lever is full aft which can increase glide performance by 20-40%. By the looks of this accident it looks like partial power was still available at least at some point.
If you try to land on that golf course, you are dead. It might be flat on your maps, but it has lots of highs and lows as well as tons of
trees. It would be easier to land in downtown salt lake city.
I hope you are never in the situation where that was an option, but a golf course is a far better alternative than a wooded area or a lake! but to say "you are dead" is horse$hit
Best review Mike. succinct. just the facts. brought up every point I could see ... and you logically addressed them. Including speeds, DA vs PA issues. partial vs full power loss. Nice job.
Stick to what is available, here its ADSB data. Don't become an ambulance chasing BlancoL guy with no relevant data-facts just to be the first on scene. If there's nothing to add from the dumb news media broadcast, don't waste yours or our time with the upload.
The godfather too.
Pilot error strikes again! Higher the wind the higher the IAS?😂😂😂😂
Humm not bad Mike - need a little polish but good info - keep it up !
Where does he need he polish Rudy? My first time listening to him (only did because I own an -8) and I was impressed.
I don't understand, so the pilot had a gravel road and a normal road off to the left why didn't he just land on the roads into the wind doesn't make any sense at all
Many pilots are taught to not land on a road. To many obstacles, power lines you can't see, and traffic. A big open field is a better bet.
This pilot was an accomplished USAF pilot and was a Primary Flight Instructor Pilot at NAS Whiting field as well.
@@allenlipson7512okay it's obvious now He thinks he's God He thinks he's God's greatest gift to aviation and he's going to save it. Maby in a low performance airplane like a Piper cub but certainly not in a high performance airplane like an RV8. Also it could be that this was his pride and joy and he didn't want to chance it with an off-airport landing so he kept pushing it back, and pushed it back trying to make the airport at all costs: wrong wrong wrong
@christophergagliano2051 i certainly don't think this man, husband, and father thought he was God. and I'm certainly not going to assume what he was thinking. This man lost his life. I work at the squadron he was an instructor at. He was an well respected pilot. He not only taught primary flight student aviators, but he also trained other instructors in the T6B aircraft. A complex and fast aircraft.
@@allenlipson7512 I'm sorry for your loss, my dad was an Air Force pilot he to lost friends. But for f**** sake don't try to be the hero. The RV is a wonderful airplane and has great handling qualities, you can do anything with it. It lands so damn slow just point the nose into the wind and let it settle. None of this fancy b******* maneuvering at such a low altitude, that was absolutely ridiculous.
That’s a flat spin. The debris field is not consistent with “nose down”. Rip